BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'

Subject: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: open mike
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 02:34 PM

Please sign the petition--see the link in this message--please pass on

The media conglomerate Discovery Communications used to be known for their earth-friendly offerings. But they've just paid millions to Sarah Palin to host a "nature" show, despite her decidedly anti-environmental stance: She vocally advocates for habitat-destroying oil drilling, she denies global warming is a human-caused threat, and she spearheaded a brutal wolf-slaughter program as governor of Alaska.

It's one thing if Fox News gives Sarah Palin a platform. But when Discovery Communications -- home to the Discovery Channel, the "Planet Earth" series, the Science Channel, Animal Planet, and TreeHugger.com -- gives a show to Sarah Palin, it undercuts everything the Discovery brand has come to represent.

Anti-environmentalism has no place in the Discovery Communications lineup. Join me in demanding that the company cancel "Sarah Palin's Alaska" before it airs. Just go to the link below to send your message. Thank you.

http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/palin_discovery/?r_by=-3315197-Nrb8J7x&rc=paste1

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Previous Thread: Sarah Palin's Alaska

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 02:47 PM

link

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 02:53 PM

I just wrote to suggest two more possible shows:

"Zoltan Bakonyi's Hungary"

and

"Richard Speck's Nursing School".

What are they thinking?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 02:57 PM

Already signed it. Got it in my e-mail some time back.

Shooting wolves from a low-flying plane and field-dressing a freshly killed moose. The woman is a walking, talking environmental disaster! Ye gawds, what are those folks at the Discovery Channel thinking of!??

If at all!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 03:07 PM

'Nature Show'?

She's not going to strip off is she?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: gnu
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 03:08 PM

"Shooting wolves from a low-flying plane and field-dressing a freshly killed moose."

I wonder why they felt they had to cull wolves? Musta been a reason, no? Anyone know?

As far as guttin (field dressing) a moose, well, that's what you do after you get one. It'd go bad in no time if ya didn't gut it and hang it proper.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 03:16 PM

Dont you dare bring reason into this thread you little troll gnu!! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 03:23 PM

Musta been a reason, no?

For fun? Some people are like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: gnu
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 03:26 PM

McGrath... I think it's against the law to shoot animals from choppers... even for fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: pdq
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 03:51 PM

"...her decidedly anti-environmental stance: She vocally advocates for habitat-destroying oil drilling, she denies global warming is a human-caused threat, and she spearheaded a brutal wolf-slaughter program as governor of Alaska."

Oh, for Christ's sake. Sarah Palin is being painted as the Anti-Christ by her political enemies. She is not to blame for any of these issues.

"Defenders of Wildlife has launched an online petition urging Interior Secretary Ken Salazar to undo his action this spring, when he took wolves in the Rockies off the Endangered Species list and stripped them of federal protections. The group hopes to get 100,000 signatures. It has 90,347 so far."

Wolves are being hunted in Montana, Idaho and Alberta that I know of. Do you blame Palin for those hunts too?

If we use oil, we are going to have to drill somewhere and Akaska is much safer than drilling 18,000 foot deep holes in the Gulf of Mexico.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 03:56 PM

I thought this was about Bristol Palin's overexposure on that dancing show. It's like watching a train wreck. Too horrible not to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: gnu
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 04:22 PM

Bristol rhymes with Pistol. Oh my god! Yer right! Sarah is a gun crazed killer!

Not that I like her on any political level. She's a uneducated twit who just happens to be drop dead gorgeous with an attitude and connections. (Ah, "connections"... I assumed that, because there HAS to be an explanation, no?)

Sorry, Ake, if that seems trolling. I know you like to be top troll, but I consider my comments to be factual rather than inflaming.

In any case, as this thread will reach a zillion posts with no conclusion(s) and will be based on feelings rather than facts, I shall check back from time to time and offer my inane comments.

In the meantime, if any tree huggers have valid reasons why the wolves should not have been culled or why Sarah should not enjoy a moozzzeburger, PM me in case I miss it eh wha'?

PS... I've said it before... me and Sarah in a chopper on auto hover... as long as she only talks naughty... I gotta take a hot shower... gnightgnu.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 04:22 PM

``Ye gawds, what are those folks at the Discovery Channel thinking of!?``

MONEY, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 04:22 PM

"Wolves are being hunted in Montana, Idaho and Alberta that I know of. Do you blame Palin for those hunts too?"

Very controversial issues in those states and the matter is still being fought in the courts.

Palin is all in favor of drilling for oil in all of the national parks. It's bloody-well high time that we start looking for alternative energy sources, but the oil companies--and the politicians--want to wring the planet dry first.

As a scientist friend of mine (who just happens to be politically very conservative) said, "Considering all the essential products, including such things as pharmaceuticals, that we make from petroleum, to burn huge quantities of it simply to produce energy is a crime against the future!"

But all these Bozos think of is the next financial quarter's bottom line.

Stupid! Really stupid!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 04:23 PM

Guest post above was me.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 04:34 PM

Regrettably I cannot sign the petition since it will not recognise non-US addresses

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: BTNG
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 04:41 PM

"Akaska (Alaska I presume) is much safer than drilling 18,000 foot deep holes in the Gulf of Mexico."

Blimey! what drugs are you on....

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 06:21 PM

Unfortunately wolves are hunted, and are being killed from airplanes in Alaska. (Each state makes its own rules)
See Alaska wolves

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,John.
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 07:52 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 07:55 PM

Done with the simple comment, "Shame on you..."

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 08:46 PM

I might watch it if Sarah had a naturist program.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 08:56 PM

I might watch it if Miss Sarah appeared nude...

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 09:03 PM

Nude in Alaska?
Hopefully, in summer.

Otherwise it may be a bit nippy.
But, it would perk her up.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 09:16 PM

Would Sarah do this?
Elk wrestling

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 09:54 PM

No, no, no! You guys are looking at the picture from the wrong angle! If Sarah Palin fronts a TV nature show, she has to go out into nature. Nature is dangerous! She could fall into a crevasse on a glacier. Or she could be eaten by a Polar Bear. Or maybe a bull walrus will mistake her for his mate and crush her while trying to give her the old petrified blubber injection.

Don't try to prevent Sarah from being on TV! Demand more of her! Write to Discovery and tell them Sarah needs to host programs about hang gliding, base jumping, white water snorkling, cobra milking and other dangerous stuff!

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 11:30 PM

>>I might watch it if Miss Sarah appeared nude.<<

Though Mrs Palin is no doubt better than being nude than she is at governing, no doubt there are many many young women better qualified than her at even that.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 12:30 AM

"I wonder why they felt they had to cull wolves? Musta been a reason, no? Anyone know?" gnu

No real bones made about it, gnu. They say that wolves and bears take too many moose so they're leveling the playing field.

In actuality, they make clear that it is not the moose they are trying to protect but the hunter.

And it is not the culling of wolves that is so controversial in Alaska, it's the inherent obscenity of locating a wolf pack from air and then firing from the plane or helicopter until the entire pack is dead. There are horrific videos showing the desperate efforts the wolves make to get away. There is no way that the wolves can escape because of the long view from the air.

It used to be the law that wolves could be spotted from a plane, yes, but the plane then had to land and the hunters had to track them on foot.

That policy was changed under Palin, even though the voters of Alaska voted against it.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 12:31 AM

As for her 'Nature show' there is only one way to stop it: Don't watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: LadyJean
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 12:40 AM

I signed, and added, Haven't we had enough of that media whoring bespectacled bitch?

I say it again, haven't we had enough? Haven't we?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 01:04 AM

Sheesh What's 'bespectacled' got to do with it? Since when is that word pejorative? Curious.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 02:42 AM

I can't sign as it requires a US address, but I have posted the link on my Facebook

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: open mike
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 03:31 AM

does the site accept votes from Canadians? Are there other places where the discovery channel is broadcast besides u.s.?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 05:50 AM

"And it is not the culling of wolves that is so controversial in Alaska, it's the inherent obscenity of locating a wolf pack from air and then firing from the plane or helicopter until the entire pack is dead. There are horrific videos showing the desperate efforts the wolves make to get away. There is no way that the wolves can escape because of the long view from the air."

Is there some sort of parallel here, between the culling of wolves in Alaska, and Mr Obamas drone policy on the Pakistani border?
Of course, Mr Obama does not actually press the button and the victims are not American four legged furry creatures, but brown skinned men women and children, a few of whom may be terrorists/freedom fighters/ fundamentalists.....so thats all right then!

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: gnu
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 06:01 AM

Ebbie... hunters? Private hunters? Not government employees?... biologists?

I am shocked to say the least.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 06:32 AM

Wolves have no rifles

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 11:01 AM

Sport hunters. They don't sell pelts, they display trophies.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 01:39 PM

``I signed, and added, Haven't we had enough of that media whoring bespectacled bitch?``


I love the juxtaposition of the poster`s name and the post. Could not agree more. Bien dit.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 02:31 PM

I wonder why some women feel superior to Sarah Palin?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 02:35 PM

"Don't try to prevent Sarah from being on TV! Demand more of her! Write to Discovery and tell them Sarah needs to host programs about hang gliding, base jumping, white water snorkling, cobra milking and other dangerous stuff!"

Yeh, maybe we can get her to go swimming with stingrays.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: pdq
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 02:37 PM

"As for her 'Nature show' there is only one way to stop it: Don't watch" ~ Ebs


Actually, Palin's show may draw a lot of new people to The Discovery Channel making them enough money that they can expand their lineup.

They do quality programming and deserve your support, not a poorly-conceived boycott.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 03:02 PM

sheesh/em> Why call it a boycott? How else do you think a show disappears?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: gnu
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 03:41 PM

Ed T.... "Would Sarah do this? Elk wrestling"

I had to turn that off. That is one of the most sickening displays of "sensationalism" crap I have ever witnessed. Torturing that elk for the purpose of "exciting TV" is beyond reality. The justification given is ludicrous and obviously far more dangerous to the elk.

I would only consider watching the whole vid if someone told me a bull charges and gores that miserable fucking asshole... and Perkins too.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,999--that was me above. I have slapped my w
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 03:43 PM

`I wonder why some women feel superior to Sarah Palin?`

I`m puzzled how any woman could feel inferior to Palin.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: gnu
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 03:56 PM

You obviously cavort with a better sort than some of us have, 999. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 04:06 PM

People should enjoy and use our National Parks. I wonder if one can go to Yellowstone of Yosemite National Parks and start shooting Bison, wolves and Deer. IF so, semi automatic weapons and RPGs should make good sport of it.

Like it or not the Bush-Roberts Supreme Court in the Citizens United decision has decreed that Corporations are real live citizens and are entitled to all the rights and protections and freedom of speech of a living human being. Freedom speech for a corporation actually means the freedom to use unlimited money to shape and buy Federal and Stae Elections for their own prosperity. In some ways corporations are more than human in that they are immune from being prosecuted of a capital crime.
Corporations should and can enjoy and use our National Parks.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Sarah Palin's Alaska'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 05:37 PM

It's good more people have finally found out about this. I brought the issue up 1 April 2010. Sorry it was not an April Fools joke.

Signing a petition is fine as far as it goes, but more important, as I said earlier, is to find out the sponsors of her show and threaten to boycott them, also encouraging others to do the same--perhaps through Facebook or similar media.    This needs to "go viral."

Make no mistake, goal of this show is a "warm and fuzzy" Sarah, in contrast to her current combative persona.   And it could work with people undecided about her.

Also it's too bad some people still think she is a joke punchline.

She is in fact already the front-runner for the Republican 2012 nomination--as I've also noted months earlier.

Then the question will be if unemployment is down--it must be down considerably below 9% by about the end of 2011. If not, she might well win against the President.    She is a masterful demagogue and if the unemployment rate has not drastically sunk by then, voters will be looking for a scapegoat.

What's more, even if the unemployment rate is down, if most of the new jobs (primarily service sector) pay worse than the old ones, Obama will still have a bad problem.

It's past time to take her seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Sarah Palin's Alaska'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 05:48 PM

Why are there so many women that feel superior to Sarah Plain?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Sarah Palin's Alaska'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 06:03 PM

That's misleading. You only see one side on Mudcat political threads.

There are lots of non-liberal women who say things like "I have Sarah Palin values". And also probably think it's time for a woman president.

One of the many factors which makes her a serious danger.

Anybody who doubts this, check her website. And she has about 2 million followers there.   I don't think they're all Mudcatters ridiculing her.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: artbrooks
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 06:16 PM

Let's put this in perspective, shall we? This is the same network that shows such class programs as "American Chopper" and "Overhaulin'" about rebuilding motorcycles and junk cars, respectively; "Swamp Loggers"; and "Dirty Jobs - Visiting Vomit Island". {All from today's and tomorrow's schedule - I mostly don't watch TV.} Seems to me that the Divine Sarah would fit right it...maybe she can point out Russia while she's at it.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 11:47 PM

I am not a fan of Sarah Palin.

I think she has some appealing down home values that people can tune in but I don't think she is presidential material.

Too bad people are soooooooooooo Afraid of someone who is not an elitistlike them.

Mike Barnicle asked for emails on the question "Are you prepared to listen to this tone of voice for four years?"

I sent email answering his question. I said I prefer her tone of voice over your elitist tone of voice any day.

I sent it through three different web sites using contact us.

Did I get a response or an acknowledgment? Hell no. Any results posted anywhere" Not that I can find.

Mr Barnicle, are you prepared to listen to this tone of voice for four years?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: LadyJean
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 12:19 AM

Mrs. Palin is not well educated, or well informed. She seems to think this makes her a good person.

I was raised to believe that ignorance was not bliss, and it was certainly not a virtue. That learning was something you did all your life.

I know learning is not the same as wisdom. I know wisdom is better. I know wisdom can come with learning. I also know that Sarah Palin is neither learned nor wise. But she is proud of her lack of learning. That bothers me a great deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 12:47 AM

Sawsaw, I think your link to Hillary Clinton is below the belt. She looks exhausted (Have you checked out her schedule?)- and you think that somehow makes her ugly?

The words she is speaking there are wise words- do you think that somehow that makes her mockable?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 09:29 AM

"Seems to me that the Divine Sarah would fit right in..."

Particularly on the Vomit Island program.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 10:15 AM

Ebbie the thing is about the Sawzaws, the Republicans, Creationists, The Tea Baggers and the Money that is pulling their strings, is that they don't care about debate, or Democracy or rights or being right. All they care about is winning.

They say to Democrats that it is undemocratic to debate until someone like Hillary stands up, they grab their soundbite for later use then move on to the next out of context, unreasonable illogical attack until someone stands up to it then they grab their soundbite then move on.

I thought Obama had the strength to continuously stand up to this and counter it. Perhaps if Bush had not set the economy on fire on the way out he would have. I don't think that all hope is lost. But I fear the unpatriotic unreasonable forces of evil are winning and darker days are ahead.

If only they would put even half their efforts into improving the country rather than tearing it down.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 05:59 PM

Remember the archbitch: "There is no such thing as "society"".

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ed T
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 09:16 PM

Gnu
"That is one of the most sickening displays of "sensationalism" crap I have ever witnessed".

I guess you don't recall many of this programs segments, and the stories of what happened behind the scenes to get the TV shots.
Many watched scenes like the one I posted a few decades ago, when they ran, with out questioning them, as we do today.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 01:39 AM

"The words she is speaking there are wise words-"

The words she, Hillary, is speaking have the same meaning as the words coming from the Tea party. Her voice is even worse that Sarah Palin's voice.

You just don't like her and her voice because she fromm another tribe and your tribe must blindly defeat the other tribe no matter what they think or believe.

Everything from the other tribe like not killing their kids before they are born is automatically wrong and everything from any member of your tribe, like drones killing innocent men women and children, is automatically right.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 01:48 AM

"Mrs. Palin is not well educated, or well informed. She seems to think this makes her a good person. "

You seem to think you are well educated and well informed. So this makes you a good person.

Ever been to Alaska? Ever talked to an Alaskan?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 11:59 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,Ebbie
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:30 PM

Saws, have you?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 04:29 PM

WOW, Sawz! One post on a music thread - among all the political rants. I'm really impressed!

Well, I think if one is well-educated, one has a much better chance of being a good person and of being mentally equipped to make good decisions than someone who is proud of being an ignoramus.

Don Firth

P. S. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 11:12 PM

Dammit Ebbie, do you think I would ask such a thing if I had not?

Don: At least your are impressed with yourself. Just go ahead and tell me how much better you are than me and then I will be impressed.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 11:31 PM

I feel remorseful over the statement about people that want to kill their own babies. I am not against abortion. That is up to the individual person and not someone claiming a higher moral ground. It was meant to shock, not to put people down. However it came out quite mean.

I think all the extremism about abortions and blowing up clinics is stupid. Some abortions are necessary.

However I have never been able to understand how someone can wring their hands about people dying in wars and not even question abortions. I seems like a moral dilemma.

I don't believe I am better than other people. I just believe I can see through the biases and logical fallacies that cause people to be upset and angry with someone that does not agree with them.

I think these animosities are encouraged by politicians, media etc for their advantage. Think people should be ables to recognize when they are being manipulated. They should try to understand each other rather than fight each other.

They should find things they have in common, things they agree on and work positively from there not negatively by finding something to fight about.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 11:40 PM

>>>Dammit Ebbie, do you think I would ask such a thing if I had not?<<<

This answer to your previous question might help put your comments about Alaska in perspective.

Ever talked to an Alaskan?

Yes, Thank you for asking, I have talked to an Alaskan, often, right here on this forum. In fact I believe that she is quite well informed about Alaska.

Her handle here is "Ebbie."

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 12:50 AM

Yes, I have talked to several Alaskans in person, in Alaska.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 12:52 AM

I won't bother to explain the obvious to you, Sawz.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 10:17 AM

Don:

Why would that be a bother to you Don? Would that be beneath your dignity?

Yes, you are very much impressed with yourself.

condescending
   1. Assuming a tone of superiority, or a patronizing attitude.

How to Stop Being a Condescending Person:

Condescending people consider themselves superior to others. They rarely stand in the shoes of another to see things from another's perspective. If you find yourself behaving condescendingly, it is time for an overhaul before you find your friends and colleagues deserting you.

      1 Think about the things that make you behave as if you are superior to others. Often there is a deep-seated fear of rejection pushing condescension, as it is easier to belittle a person than to really get to know them and let them into your world, thereby risking rejection, mockery, disappointment or hurt. If you carry around such a fear, confront it and root out the reasons for it.
      
      2 Stop assuming that you know more than the other person. This is not necessarily the case. As a whole, we know a great deal. As separate entities, while we may be expert in one small part of our field/hobby/profession/passion, we don't know it all and we have a great deal to teach and learn from each another. Instead, treat each encounter with a person as an opportunity to learn more, to expand your own knowledge and to gain an ally.

      3 Be compassionate, not condescending. Condescension might serve to keep you apart from others but it can also leave you lonely, ousted, an outsider, which in its own vicious way, only serves to make you feel less secure and therefore internalizes the need to remain condescending. Try compassion instead; see others for all the struggles, triumphs, achievements, doubts, fragility, and strengths that they are really made of. We are all in positions of unique perspective. Every person you see is a wealth of information and ideas that you haven't come across. Learn how to approach people looking to find the hidden gem in them. Look for that unique thing in them that makes them special. You will find that you don't have to fake it.

      4 Try something new. Do something you have never done before, something that requires you to rely on somebody else's knowledge and abilities. Let yourself trust them and keep your mind and ears wide open. This might be a hard time for you, as you will need to trust when you will feel the temptation to replace your fears with a sense of superiority and a need to take potshots at the instructor/teacher/guide but you must resist. Learning is a process of being humble and in being humble, you unlearn condescension.

      5 Be assertive, not biting. If you have long used wit as a form of undermining others, it may come as a surprise to learn that your behavior is not assertive; rather it can be outright aggressive, or a form of passive aggression. Your quick wit of the moment against their reeling disbelief what sort of a match is that? And you haven't even gotten to know the other person properly yet! Instead, make your points using the skills of assertive speaking. If you are afraid that people won't respect you or listen, think again people respect the differing views of others when they are put calmly, clearly, and with a view to discussion rather than cutting off further communications. For more guidance, see How to Be Assertive Without Being Arrogant.

      6 Be willing to change. It won't be easy letting go of the habit of condescension. Most of all, you have to want to change, or it will be a half-hearted attempt doomed to failure. To help you succeed, think about the benefits that will accrue. Benefits include people liking and trusting you more, less need to make witty comebacks as a form of instant defense, increased enjoyment of people's company, a chance to let down your façade, and probably unknown opportunities such as promotions and being asked to events. You might be pleasantly surprised when you let the world in just a little more than you have been doing.

Being a highly intelligent person Don, I assume you know all this but you might want to review it.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 11:29 AM

Sawzaw,

Believe me Don's an Ebbie's exasperation is understandable.

If you act like and idiot, people will come to believe that you are one.

While in a conversation about Alaska, asking if anyone has talked to anyone has EVER talked to and Alaskan while a well informed Alaskan seem to me a new height in condescending stupidity.

And don't say that you learn more but talking to them in person than on line where the have a chance to think about their responses before they type. Because that is just stupid.

As the risk of seeming condescending to you, may I point out the obvious to you? Alaska has well over a half million people and well over a half million square miles. You do not know Alaska. You can't. You haven't seen it all or talked to everyone. You probably don't know squat about it compared to Ebbie who lives there. So stop being condescending about the special knowledge which you apparently do not have.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 01:39 PM

What Jack said.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 06:12 PM

"Why would that be a bother to you Don? Would that be beneath your dignity?"

Sawz, I find it no bother at all, rather stimulating in fact, to discuss things with people who are open-minded, but when someone is convinced that he knows all he needs to know and merely pontificates to others (especially when those ponitifications are old and hackneyed ideas that have never worked and never will), any further attempted to communicate with him is a waste of time and energy.

Don Firth

P. S.   Proverbs 14:7.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 11:31 PM

"when someone is convinced that he knows all he needs to know and merely pontificates to others"

It seems to me that Don Firth does that. What have I pontificated on?

I am sorry, I did not know that Ebbie was an Alaskan.

"You haven't seen it all or talked to everyone."

And I never made that claim.

I said I have been there and I have talked to Alaskans.

"don't say that you learn more but talking to them in person" Ok I won't say that.

Who has seen it all or talked to everyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 11:37 PM

Sawz, I'm not the one who got on your case about Ebbie living in Alaska (although I already knew that; she's a pretty sharp lady). I thought I'd leave that to others.

It would appear to me that anyone who strenuously disagrees with anything you say is guilty of being "impressed" with themselves.

Methinks the problem is you.

Good night.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 11:39 PM

>>Who has seen it all or talked to everyone?<<

No one. Who is stupid enough to imply that "Talking to an Alaskan" imparts special knowledge?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:15 AM

I know someone who knows someone who has spoken to Sarah Palin. Therefore I know everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:42 AM

How about a mud-wrestling match between Sarah Palin and Ann Coulter?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 01:34 AM

Nah, Don. They would hug. They remind me of a couple of characters in a special deck of cards.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 07:47 AM

Not completely germane, but a question for Ebbie.   Is it true that if Murkowski were to win in Alaska and the Republicans were to take the Senate, that Murkowski, with her seniority, would be put in charge of the Natural Resources Committee?--since she'd ask for that--(with disastrous results for the environment)   Whereas if Miller (Tea Party, now officially Republican) wins, he will have no seniority, therefore not be eligible for this position?

If it is true, it seems that since the Democrat has no chance in Alaska, we should be actually rooting for Miller.   Bitter irony.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 08:01 AM

Ron,

What makes you think any other Republican/Tea Party/Fox "News"/Lunatic talk radio alliance member would better?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 08:29 AM

Would BE better

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 09:51 AM

Committee assignments - and chairs - are made by the parties. Murkowski, if reelected as an Independent, will probably caucus will the Republicans (as Lieberman does with the Democrats) but that is not certain. At any rate, they may not put her back there. The Washington Post quoted Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) on September 23d as saying(in reference to her not being removed now from the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee):

"It was bad enough to watch my colleagues work to support her in the primary after she had built a record of betraying conservatives principles," wrote DeMint. "But watching them back her after she left the party and launched a campaign against the Republican nominee was more than I could bear."

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:07 PM

"I'm not the one who got on your case about Ebbie living in Alaska"
Nor did I imply it.

"anyone who strenuously disagrees with anything you say is guilty of being "impressed"" I have not heard you say otherwise.

Have I said anybody was stupid or ignorant? What does calling someone stupid or ignorant imply?

I believe in humility.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:37 PM

"You haven't seen it all or talked to everyone. "

Nor have you. What ever that implies, it implicates you also.

Seems like Jack always gets caught up in these "you" things in an attempt to block on any sort of discussion about the actual subject.

"that they don't care about debate, or Democracy or rights or being right. All they care about is winning" That's Jack. He jumps in with his personal attacks to block out anybody that disagrees. Win at any cost.

Ebbie is indeed sharp. I wouldn't dream of calling her stupid or ignorant.

However I would like for her to explain if "well educated and well informed." automatically makes one a good person and if poorly educated and uninformed automatically means they are not a good person.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 01:25 PM

From Sawsaw about 20 posts ago...

You seem to think you are well educated and well informed. So this makes you a good person.

From Sawzaw about about 2 posts ago.

Seems like Jack always gets caught up in these "you" things in an attempt to block on any sort of discussion about the actual subject.


Who is caught up in the "you" thing and avoiding the subject?

Could it be YOU??????

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 01:46 PM

So what is the answer to the question Jack?

To rephrase the question, "does well educated and well informed." automatically make one a good person and does poorly educated and uninformed automatically mean they are not a good person."

No "yous" in that question so it should be easy to answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 02:08 PM

Sawzaw, I notice that you are changing the subject. You brought it up. Now you are changing it. As if you had never lost the argument. You have learned well from your Fox Masters.

I'm not going to discuss whether or not Palin is a good person or not. That's between her and her maker. I am prepared to say that she is unqualified to hold high political office. She is also unqualified to host a serious nature show.

What is she going to do? Make snarky comments about polar bears? Tell us that the Mama Grizzlies in the wild support tax cuts?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 11:47 PM

Jack--point is that Miller, as freshman Senator would not get a committee chairmanship under any circumstances even if the Republicans did take the Senate.    You cannot assume that for Murkowski.   And, believe it or not, not all Republicans are as far out as Miller or as anti-environment as Murkowski.

Art--DeMint as spokesman for Republican orthodoxy?   That's an imaginative idea.   He is mainly annoyed since his tea party man was not accepted by the Republican Establishment, which preferred Murkowski.   And may still want to welcome her--and her vote--back. And even give her the chairmanship in question.


Fortunately the whole point appears moot since it's very unlikely the Republicans will take the Senate.   Which of course also means Obama cannot pull a Truman 1948 in 2012, running against a "do-nothing Congress"--which would be one of the few promising approaches to his re-election.

But after all my question was only directed to Ebbie in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 01:03 AM

"I am prepared to say that she is unqualified to hold high political office"

I agree Jack but how have I changed the subject of my question?

The question was not about Palin specifically. It applies to anybody.

And what did I lose? Does refusing to answer constitute win?

Why is it a battle to be won or lost anyway? It is just questions? Does it hurt to answer questions? Not for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 01:10 AM

Palin/Obama...Comedy/Tragedy.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 01:09 PM

>>>And, believe it or not, not all Republicans are as far out as Miller or as anti-environment as Murkowski.<<<

They may or may not be but they all toe the party line and the party is in the pocket of the big polluters. If the Republicans win the Senate, Exxon will pull the strings in that committee. It doesn't matter which puppet.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 08:29 PM

Jack--

First I want to say I admire your guts in standing up to Mr. Shaw et al. on the other thread.

However, on this one:   "It doesn't matter which puppet."   Sorry, that's simplistic. If it were true, ANWR would have been pillaged while Republicans had majorities in the Senate, House, and a Republican president. This was true 2002 through 2006. The 109th Congress (2005 -2007) was 44D, 55R.

Your view is too Manichean.

However, as I noted, Murkowski would be one of the worst possible chairmen of the Natural Resources Committee, as she is eager to exploit all US natural resources, especially those of Alaska, regardless of environmental considerations.

But not all cats are black or white. Some are gray or have patterns.

My point stands.   As I noted, the only saving grace is that the Republicans are not likely to take the Senate this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 08:33 PM

I hear what you are saying but these are different times. The Republicans are different.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 10:22 PM

They're not all different.   Moderates--both Republican and Democratic-- may be an endangered species, but they still exist.   Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Kirk, would all be far better choices to head a committee than Murkowski. And as I said, seniority counts.   Miller would have no seniority so would not be head of any committee.

What makes this a moot point is that the Republicans will not take the Senate this year.   If they did, the question of whether Miller or Murkowski won in Alaska would be crucial.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 03:48 PM

Good one, Ron.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 05:11 PM

"I think if one is well-educated, one has a much better chance of being a good person and of being mentally equipped to make good decisions than someone who is proud of being an ignoramus"


Joy Behar made a little bit of news when she said of Republican Senatorial candidate Sharron Angle "she's going to hell, this bitch!"

Not surprisingly, this came up again on The View, only it was Ms. Angle's turn to thumb her nose at Ms. Behar, but in the most classy way, sending her flowers and a thank you note that read "Raised $150,000 online yesterday, thanks for your help!"

Ms Behar responded those flowers were picked by illegal immigrants and they aren't voting for you bitch!

So who are the illegal immigrants voting for Joy?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 06:14 PM

Joy Behar has no chance of bringing her bigotry into the US Senate.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 02:24 AM

No shit? I didn't know that.

Maybe you could answer this question?

Does well educated and well informed automatically make one a good person and does poorly educated and uninformed automatically mean they are not a good person.?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 12:03 PM

What well educated and well informed "inherently good" person said this?

"we're gonna make the sun rise in the West and move over to the East,"

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 12:18 PM

>>Does well educated and well informed automatically make one a good person and does poorly educated and uninformed automatically mean they are not a good person.? <<

No, of course not, but ignorance and mental laziness like Sarah Palin's is not something to be proud of.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,Alan whittle
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 04:42 PM

Sawzaw - If I were you I'd print this correpondence off and send it to Sarah Palin - just to show her that she has some well informed and well educated supporters like yourself.

If she asks you round to say thankyou personally, don't go on one of those days when the family is playing round with electic prodding sticks.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 04:49 PM

LOL Whittle!!

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: pdq
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 05:37 PM

I heard an advertisement for this series on my ABC radio affiliate this morning.

Seems that there are 8 shows and they are all finished and schedueled for broadcast.

Let's hope they bring a large amount of money to the The Disconvery Channel which can be used to subsidize their other quality shows.

I understand that Discovery Channel employs about 2900 people.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 05:49 PM

Yes let's congratulate the Discovery channel for joining the parade of institutions sacrificing its reputation for a few extra dollars.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 10:21 AM

The first episode of "Sarah Palin's Alaska"—which officially begins Nov. 14—can now be seen at TLC's web site.

The Huffington Post says "Sarah Palin Complains About Invasion of Her Privacy on First Episode of Her Reality Show."

One has to laugh at the unintended irony.

Interesting, though, that they're calling it a "reality show" rather than a "nature show."

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 12:13 PM

"Reality" is about right.

Is there such thing as a surreality show?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 07:40 PM

""However I would like for her to explain if "well educated and well informed." automatically makes one a good person and if poorly educated and uninformed automatically means they are not a good person.""


Of course being poorly educated and poorly informed doesn't make anybody a bad person Sawz.

But it surely DOES make them a lousy prospect for State Governor, and an even worse prospect for President.

After all, you've only recently got rid of the prime example of just how bad a President an uneducated ignorant twerp can be.

Do you really want more of that?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 07:53 PM

What's this about? Is Sarah going to take it all off for charity? Where and when does it happen?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: DougR
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 01:22 AM

Good work, all! I'm sure your efforts will prevent the showing of Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show.'

Anybody taking bets on it? What's the odds?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 02:17 PM

Is it my imagination or do smugness and an apparent lack of intelligence go hand in hand?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 02:34 PM

I think Doug may be just as frightened of Sarah, as are the Dems, Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 03:55 PM

Yeah, but...Intelligence isn't the only key to getting somewhere in life. You also have to learn to be kind to other people, generous, respectful, appreciative, and so on...

I had an uncle who was brilliantly intelligent, but he had none of those other fine qualities. This made his intelligence almost useless when it came to real life, which is mostly about how you relate to other people.

As for smugness, that's a little hard to figure for sure unless you can see the other person's facial expressions and hear their tone of voice. They might be being smug...or they might be using irony...or they might be joshing... or they might be expressing personal ideals that they value...or they might be doing a variety of other things. The mere fact that they don't see something your way doesn't necessarily mean they're smug. The printed word by itself lacks a great deal in providing a totally clear means of communication.

Just philosophizing about life generally, Jack. Don't take it personally. I'm not being smug. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: kendall
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 08:28 PM

I tried to watch, I really did. Where does this vacuous twit get the idea that she has what it takes to be President?
I suspect this whole thing was cooked up by the democrats to showcase just how empty she is.
I've done a lot of gunning in my life and I've known many women who shoot and hunt but I have never seen one wearing ear rings!

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: frogprince
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 01:22 AM

I watched tonight, if only so that I would know I was responding to what the show really is, rather than to other people'r reactions pro or con. I guess I expected to see Alaska showcased to some extent, with a substantial amount of political "wink, nudge". I should have known. Out of the entirety, there were a few lines from other people, and a very few lines from Palin, which didn't have at least a blatent self-serving subtext.

Club that fish, kiddo; show 'em that I'm raising a real all-American blue-collar daughter.

I do hope that a certain fraction of people who have been ambivalent about her get burned out on her air-headed babbling by watching.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: frogprince
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 01:24 AM

I must say, when she bragged that her friends gave her a baby shower out at the skeet shooting range, I about laughed my ass off.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 03:27 AM

There seems to be a huge gulf between what resonates with "grass roots" America and the "intellectuals"

Have the "intellectuals" ever been the providers of "change"? I dont think so.
To change society requires self-belief, emotion and guts, none of which reside naturally in the "intellectual".

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 11:52 AM

Ok, tell us more.What have the sub intellectuals ever done besides start wars?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: frogprince
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 12:11 PM

Jefferson, Paine, Adams, et al, weren't intellectuals?

It's too bad Lester Maddox isn't with us anymore; in the present climate, he might have made it into the White House, and provided real hope for us all.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 12:44 PM

I can see it now: Maddox on the road to the White House and certain people on the Mudcat promising us that he will save our country. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 02:35 PM

"Have the 'intellectuals' ever been the providers of 'change'? I dont think so.
To change society requires self-belief, emotion and guts, none of which reside naturally in the 'intellectual'."

YE GAWDS!!

Ake, you obviously know nothing about the foundations of the whole Rights of Man movement growing out of the Age of Enlightenment. And all of this actually started centuries earlier, during the reign of kings and emperors—an INTELLECTUAL movement!

INTELLECTUALS getting together in such gathering spots as coffeehouses in Oxford, London, and for that matter, Boston and Philadelphia and many other places and discussing the state of the world, and particularly the state of the way things were governed. And matters of fairness and equity in times when heredity was considered the only criterion for who should govern and determine the fate of the multitudes.

Have you never heard of Thomas Paine? John Winthrop? Roger Williams? Jean Jacque Rousseau? You can take it back to Plato and Aristotle, for that matter, but it wasn't until the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries that The Rights of Man really became a major movement, with an INTELLECTUAL base.

". . . self-belief, emotion and guts. . . ." Yes, of course. But that's the engine. And the engine will get you nowhere without the steering wheel. The INTELLECT.

Good grief, man, read some history. Read some philosophy. Read some political ethics!

Read a BOOK!

Don Firth

P. S. There is damned little intellectualism behind tyranny and greed. And that's a fact! All that's needed is a lust for power and a lust for wealth.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 03:01 PM

"intellectuals"..... do you consider yourselves intellectuals?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 03:28 PM

You used the word first...what do you mean by it?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 03:40 PM

ake, are you trying to equate 'intellectuals' with 'liberals'? In your vocabulary I realize that both are terms of disapprobation but to my mind you may be right, in that both conditions stem from reasoning ability. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 04:03 PM

The people you mention were all intellectuals ...of their time.
I see few intellectuals on this forum or in present day political life. A real intellectual would see immediately the contradictions in our present system and would recognise that it is unsustainable.

All you peasants are fit for is snarling and gouging at one another like dogs....you are as far removed from the intellect as your enemy the lovely Sarah, but she is now in position where intellect is not required......the self belief, emotion and guts will suffice.

Sorry Ebbs....I'll let you off.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,John
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 05:06 PM

Back to the show--

It turns out to be a dynamite travel promotion show, done by a major on-the-camera talent.

The correct measure is the number of viewers and the long-term effect on Alaska tourism. The ratings are already in and are very good.

I'd say that the tourism numbers are going to be good also.

Quoting Freud: sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Sometimes a state tourism promotion show done by an ex-governor is just what it looks like. If this isn't the most effective one of those ever done, it's pretty darn close.

The state of Alaska has gotten a very, very, good boost.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Lox
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 06:01 PM

Not wholly relevant, but here is a little video of Sarah Palin clarifying her support for the expansion of Israeli settlements into areas already inhabited by Palestinians.

be afraid!

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 06:08 PM

Alaska couldn't find a better publicist.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 06:09 PM

Ake, I think that most of those here, those of a liberal persuasion whom you regard with such disdain and contempt "see immediately the contradictions in our present system and would recognise that it is unsustainable." And they (we) are most interested in doing a great deal about it.

The first thing on the agenda would be to throw out the bums in both parties—the bums who are getting rich by accepting bribes from corporations so the corporations can shuck all regulations and run the country any old way they want to (think "feudal system").

Bribes? They like to call it "lobbying," but no matter how you slice it, it's bribery!

The last thing we need in the government is someone like Sarah Palin, with her motives and the shallowness of her views.

Yes, there is a lot of anger in the country. Outfits like the Tea Party are evidence enough of that. But ANGER is not enough. These people want to take more of the poison that made them sick in the first place.

I see ominous parallels with Germany in the 1930s.

But--in the meantime, there are other groups gathering together, largely through the internet, but also getting together face-to-face in living rooms, to figure out intelligent ways of taking the country back from the would-be tyrants and exploiters. And these people know history and political science. They don't shout much and they don't wave guns around, but that doesn't mean that they aren't plenty angry.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Lox
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 06:51 PM

"A real intellectual would see immediately the contradictions in our present system and would recognise that it is unsustainable."

You mean a "real intellectual" would agree with you?

Good luck with that one pal.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: josepp
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 07:34 PM

Stop worrying about it. She's media whore politician and all she's being given is enough rope by which she will hang herself which is the fate of all media whores. Sit back and enjoy the spectacle. Don't make people sympathize with her. The American public is pretty stupid, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 10:11 PM

"Stop worrying about it . . . The American public is pretty stupid, you know."

That, josepp, is what I DO worry about. Many of them vote!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 11:00 PM

"she is now in position where intellect is not required"

Oh Hell yes. Imagine that. Proudly non-intellectual Akenaton has a fookin clue after all!

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 11:31 PM

"...she is now in position where intellect is not required......the self belief, emotion and guts will suffice." ake


Good God, ake, do you realize what you are saying? No intellect required? What does 'intellect' mean to you? Does it mean anything at all close to what you'll find in a dictionary?


–noun
1. the power or faculty of the mind by which one knows or understands, as distinguished from that by which one feels and that by which one wills; the understanding; the faculty of thinking and acquiring knowledge.
2. capacity for thinking and acquiring knowledge, esp. of a high or complex order; mental capacity.
3. a particular mind or intelligence, esp. of a high order.
4. a person possessing a great capacity for thought and knowledge.
5. minds collectively, as of a number of persons or the persons themselves.

Synonyms
1. reason, sense, common sense, brains. See mind.



Doesn't this embarrass you at all?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 04:01 AM

It is patently obvious, that "intellect" is not a requirement for election to high office.

Was the financial meltdown a work of genius? The Iraq War? Afghanistan? The coming depression?   The Revolution???

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 04:20 AM

I am certainly not saying that Sarah is an intellectual....but she has the common touch, something every good leader needs...and something that Mr Obama and Hillary the Hawk will never have.

If we are to change politics in the West we need a leader whom the ordinary people can relate to....and we will never change until we rid ourselves of the baggage of the past, like divisive party politics.
While "liberals" retain a belief in the evolution of capitalism we have no chance....they are the enemies of change, not the rightwing or the Tea Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 07:22 AM

So, going from bad to worse will change things for the better?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 09:06 AM

No Kendall....It's up to the people, the lady can only unite them against political control.

If we want change here or in the US, we are all going to have to work damned hard for it.

No point in sitting back and thinking the Pubs or the Dems, Obama, or Sarah can serve it up on a platter....if we are united against that which turns our life into economic slavery, we can achieve anything.

The only problem is convincing folks that it's worth their while to work for a society that most of them will never live to see completed.

But I dont think we have an option....do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 09:34 AM

ake, are you trying to equate 'intellectuals' with 'liberals'? In your vocabulary I realize that both are terms of disapprobation

Damn Right! Enough of intellect and liberality.

Lets hear it for reactionary, illiberal stupidity and ignorance.

Now there's a solid foundation to build a country or a political party upon.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 09:57 AM

I wonder why it is that most of the intellectuals I have known or read about were/are Liberals?
Adlai Stevenson was a perfect example; a "pointed headed Liberal intellectual"
I liked Ike, and in fact I cast my first vote for him, but Stevenson had far more intellect than Ike did.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 10:49 AM

Greg and kendall, I dont think you guys have any idea what I'm talking about?
You want to win the race, but you're just cantering up to the first hurdle.....forget your old pre-conceptions, set your mind free and relax......thats what intellect really means.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 11:38 AM

ake, the very idea of your pointing out the meaning of words smf concepts to either Greg or Kendall is amusing.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 01:38 PM

You are remarkably easily amused Ebbs.

Or is that what passes for satire in Alaska?   :0)

Concepts?......Greg n' Kendall!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 02:54 PM

Ake is an advocate of the blind leading the blind -- when there are a number of sighted people around. But he's frightened by the idea.

Obviously he has little concept of intelligence.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Lox
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 03:17 PM

As I understand it, Ake is stating that a vote for Palin is a vote against the establishment corporatocracy.

He appears to have no idea how Bizarre this proposition is.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 03:48 PM

A vote vor Sarah is a vote for unity.....without unity nothing is possible.

In America that unity can only be achieved by compromise from the left, America will always value independence and personal freedom, that is how most Americans define themselves.
A hard long journey for the "liberals" with plenty of sweat, tears and setbacks....but at least the journey will have been started
Mainstream Republicans AND Democrats fear Sarah, for she can turn the anger and indignation of grass roots Americans against them.
If the left had sense they would see her power as an advantage.

The sacrifice will be well worth it, if political corporate power can be broken.
The new society should be able to encompass all opinions, when the oppression of the money system is removed.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 03:57 PM

Ho hum. The same old "arguments" prevalent in dozens of threads, the same people opining over and over.

Politics should be barred from mudcat. Boringly serving no purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: bobad
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 05:30 PM

'Sarah Palin's Alaska' loses nearly half its audience in second week

By David Edwards
Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 -- 2:08 pm

Sarah Palin is having trouble keeping the interest of her fans.

In its second week, Palin's reality show lost 40 percent of its audience.

With almost five million viewers, the first episode of Sarah Palin's Alaska became TLC's most watched debut ever.

But the show's second episode attracted only 3 million viewers.

With viewers 18-49, the drop was even greater. Only 885,000 viewers in the key demo tuned in, a drop of 44 percent from the prior week.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 06:38 PM

Ake, in Scotland aren't you?

From that distance, and judging from your comments, it's obvious that you have absolutely no understanding of American politics. Your ideas about Palin uniting the country are a perfect formula for tearing the country apart and driving it into the ditch.

Liberals should compromise on what? That very independence and freedom we value so much? I'm sure the corporatocracy would be ecstatic if we did that. Were it not for liberals and progressives, this country would be a feudal state right now. God knows the Republicans and other Right-Wingers have been working hard at obliterating any resistance from liberals and progressives. And you're talking unconditional surrender.

Unless you're operating on the premise that things won't get better until they get worse first. Well, I think that when things got tight in Germany in the 1930s, a lot of Germans may have thought that way too. And look at what resulted! Not just World War II (although I wouldn't rule something like that out), but what happened internally.

Have you ever read up on the relationship between corporate rule and fascism? In fact, Mussolini once made the statement that "Fascism should more properly be called 'corporatism.' It is rule by corporations, backed by the power of the State."

Words we should keep in mind when we hear of such things as the Supreme Court ruling that corporations can financially support whatever politicians they want without being accountable.

That turns them loose to BUY the government! That's one giant step toward Mussolini's (and Hitler's) ideal!

Not that I'm comparing Sarah Palin with the little man with the postage stamp mustache, but she'd make a perfect hand-puppet for such a person! And when you have the example of people like Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, and Donald Rumsfeld who manipulated the dim-witted George W. Bush, it doesn't take a great deal of imagination to figure out what someone of that stripe could do with a person like Sarah Palin.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 06:38 PM

Ake is an advocate of the blind leading the blind -

I don't think that's accurate at all! Its more the blind leading the brain dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 06:42 PM

Cross-posted with bodad.

Perhaps this this television program is a good thing. I will give a lot of people an opportunity to see just what kind of mental light-weight Saint Sarah really is.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 10:08 PM

Hey, if you don't like it, OR think you won't like it, then don't watch it. Shit, what a bunch of whiners!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 11:09 PM

I didn't.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 12:56 AM

I didn't, either.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 07:45 AM

A vote for Sarah is a vote for unity?
I just got this mental picture of a gang of Lemmings...they are experts when it comes to unity.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 08:16 AM

Nice one Kendal :0)....but I guess they would say the same about any left wing movement to change the political status quo.

and they might well be correct....Ake

BTW   the little dig about "conception" was a joke....as I'm sure you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: bobad
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 10:36 PM

We've got to stand with our North Korean allies,' Palin tells Beck
By David Edwards
Wednesday, November 24th, 2010 -- 3:39 pm

As cartoon character Homer Simpson might have said: "D'oh!"

In a Wednesday interview on Glenn Beck's radio program, former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin seemed a little confused about whether the US was allied with North Korea or South Korea.

Beck's co-host asked Palin about how she would respond to a recent incident where North Korea shelled an island killing at least two South Korean marines and setting dozens of buildings on fire.

"Sarah, you said in the last few days that you are considering a run for president, and the polls show that you would probably win the Republican nomination," the co-host noted. "How would you handle a situation like just developed in North Korea?"

"Well, North Korea, this is stemming from a greater problem where we're all sitting around asking, 'Oh no, what are we going to do?'" Palin said. "We're not having a lot of faith that the White House is going to come out with a strong enough policy to sanction what it is that North Korea is going to do."

"This speaks to a bigger picture here that certainly scares me in terms of our national security policy. But obviously, we've got to stand with our North Korean allies. We're bound by treaty..."

"South Korean," the co-host corrected.

"Yeah," Palin continued. "We're also bound by prudence to stand with our South Korean allies, yes."

It's just the latest in a string of gaffes by the former Republican vice presidential candidate.

During the campaign, Palin suggested that part of the US was not the "real America."

Prior to the 2008 election, Palin misspoke about the vice president's constitutional role. "[The vice president is] in charge of the US Senate so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes that will make life better," she said.

Just this year, the former governor admitted that she and her family had gone to Canada to receive health care. In prior days, she had demonized Canadian-style socialized medicine while arguing against reform.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 01:22 AM

bobad: "In a Wednesday interview on Glenn Beck's radio program, former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin seemed a little confused about whether the US was allied with North Korea or South Korea."

If Sarah Palin should get elected President, as a backlash to Obama, that serves those who gave us Obama right!

Poetic justice!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: LadyJean
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 01:26 AM

After 30 plus years in the S.C.A. I've met folks from all 50 States, Alaska included. The Alaskans I have met have been no more or less educated than folks from Ohio, or California and no more or less intelligent.

Mrs. Palin is a product of a cultural phenomenon. The idea that lack of learning somehow makes one wise and capable. While knowledge makes one foolish and inept.

My parents were both old enough to have seen the rise of Nazi Germany. I think this is why my education began long before I started school. People who didn't know science bought into Hitler's insane racial theories. People who didn't know history bought into his version of German history. People who had never been taught to think, to question, to debate, would believe whatever propaganda Joseph Goebbels put out.

Abraham Lincoln came from simple people. He did not have a lot of formal education. But he kept on learning, even after he came to the White House. When he made mistakes, and he did make them (George B. McClellan comes to mind.) he acknowledged them and fixed them. I can't imagine Mrs. Palin doing either.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 01:35 AM

Lady Jean: "...When he made mistakes, and he did make them (George B. McClellan comes to mind.) he acknowledged them and fixed them. I can't imagine Mrs. Palin doing either."

Nor Obama!.. That's one more reason it would serve those idiots right!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 02:26 AM

LAY-DEE Jean: "After 30 plus years in the S.C.A. I've met folks from all 50 States, Alaska included."

Holy Smokes Jean!!

Wow! You Sure got around!!

Wink,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 07:23 AM

So, what is the problem? It sounds to me like he wanted to include the state that is furthermost away from civilization!

The way the right wingers were telling it was that he said he had visited all 57 states. They probably got their geography from Glen Beck as well as their history.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,redhorse at work
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 08:31 AM

"Well, North Korea, this is stemming from a greater problem where we're all sitting around asking, 'Oh no, what are we going to do?We're not having a lot of faith that the White House is going to come out with a strong enough policy to sanction what it is that North Korea is going to do."

I've read this three times and it still makes no sense. It just sounds like a universal answer for when you don't understand the question. Try substituting any issue you like for the words "North Korea".

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 09:08 AM

Vacuous, motormouth. She would be over her head in any position. She would be over her head in a parking lot puddle.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: LadyJean
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 02:43 PM

Ooops! Should have spelled it out! Society for Creative Anachronism, an international medieval reenactment group. There are chapters in Alaska. One group comes down to Pennsylvania every year, for the annual Pensic War and decorates their camp with wooden cutouts of rampant polar bears.
The S.C.A. has been called, on occasion, the Society for Consenting Adults, because a lot of interesting stuff does go on at our events. But I wouldn't call any of it compulsive.
I don't think Mrs. Palin is unintelligent, I think she's uninformed, which is not a failing, and prefers to stay that way, which is.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Lox
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 05:26 PM

"Mrs. Palin is a product of a cultural phenomenon. The idea that lack of learning somehow makes one wise and capable. While knowledge makes one foolish and inept."

Yesterday i was aalled to read about Michael Goves latest crackpot policy of training up battle hardened veterans of Armed conflict in just six weeks and emplying them as teachers in schools to help out with discipline etc.

One such individual, when interviewed, commented that he would be able to teach "Unencumbered by Academia".

Because isn't that what we want - teachers to be non academic ...

Gove needs round the clock care!

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: gnu
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 05:55 PM

It just gets more inane... unreal... insane.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 06:23 PM

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control...

Lets all celebrate stupidity- the wave of the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 06:25 PM

There are those who seem to think that intelligence is dangerous and that education does not consist of learning how to think logically. It is not, as some seem to think, just a matter of learning a lot of facts by rote. It consists (among other things) of learning to search out information and analyze it critically. Education is not merely indoctrination--brainwashing--as some would have you believe.

Yes, an intelligent, well-informed person can indeed be dangerous. That person is not easy to con, nor is that person easy to simply lead around by the nose. An intelligent, well-informed person is liable to ask, "Why?" Frequently. So there is a vested interest on the part of would-be con-men and tyrants to chose attractive but less than optimally intelligent people to front for them. And to take the blame when certain policies they want to implement prove unpopular.

This sort of thing is as old as the hills in politics. Cesare Borgia knew this. Niccolo Machiavelli knew this. Karl Rove and Dick Cheney know this.

Considering George W. Bush's record as a slacker in college, a draft-dodger during the Vietnam War (using papa's influence to jump the line and get into the Texas Air National Guard—and then, even though he became quite a good fighter pilot, being a notorious no-show), his record of incompetence as a businessman, and as a baseball team owner (traded Sammy Sosa!). Then, as governor of Texas, he proved to be an ideal front for the forces that wanted to be "dagger behind the throne" and implement policies that no intelligent, well-informed person with real leadership ability and with any genuine interest in the well-being of the citizens of his state would ever have done. But he did what he was advised to do.

Why had the daggers behind the throne chosen such an incompetent? Because he had name recognition, and once in office he wouldn't have a clue, and would have to be TOLD what to do.

Yes, Sarah Palin would make an ideal shill for those who want to accomplish their agenda but have the blame fall on someone else.

Anyone recall the movie in which Robert Redford played "The Candidate?" Idealistic at first, he becomes so obsessed with winning that he starts taking the advice of dubious backers. With the aid and support of these backers, who had actually talked him into running in the first place, he manages to win the election. And then, when he is told that he has won, he looks around in panic, like a trapped rabbit, and says tremulously, "What do I do now!??"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: bobad
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 07:16 PM

Don, you have nailed it.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 07:19 PM

I heard a guy just today say that he prefers the up front honesty of Palin to the elitists in government that we now have.

So, why do Americans hate brains?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: gnu
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 07:30 PM

k... it's a mystery beyond me. A true mystery. It seems implausible. But, yet, there it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 07:31 PM

Because she'd be fun to have a beer with? Worked for Dubya.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Lox
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 05:46 AM

Its cuz you don't got to think and stuff and get a headache when she talks to you.

All these elite academic types go on about stuff that I don't even understand.

Palin talks about stuff that I understand, and we think pretty much alike on all that stuff.

I'm busy and tired and don't have the time or the energy to waste on trying to understand all this complicated bullshit about socialism and stuff.

She doesn't make me feel stupid, but makes me feel like what I think is right.

Know what I mean?


(PS, for those who have a tendancy to take things literally, the above isn't actually my point of view)

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 08:35 AM

the up front honesty of Palin

Except for the fact that she's patently dishonest and can lie out of both sides of her mouth at once.

Again, lets hear it for stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 08:47 AM

Tell them what they want to hear and they will go for it. If the truth is too much for our pea brains, too bad. We get the government we deserve.

As Red Skelton was supposed to have said looking at a huge crowd at the funeral of a well known movie producer, "Give the people what they want and they will turn out every time."

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 08:23 PM

As sure as North Korea is a loyal ally of the United States, Ms Palin will make a great President.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 10:35 PM

As long as we don't have any more smug assurances along the lines that she is "in no way a danger"

Seems Mudcatters are finally realizing she is in fact a serious threat.   Should have been obvious to anybody who remembers GWB or Reagan.

Mudcatters really need to get out of their own echo chamber on a regular basis if they want to have any grasp of political realities.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: LadyJean
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 01:50 AM

It occurred to me last night that if "I think, therefore I am" is correct,

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 04:52 AM

"As long as we don't have any more smug assurances along the lines that she is "in no way a danger"


I must have been dreaming, but I could have sworn somebody said the crisis of capitalism, the meltdown of the global econony, the robbery of the taxpayers to pay for it etc, were nothing to do with "Dangerous Sarah Palin"?

Do you mean Don, that she is a danger to ..."Mudcatters"?   "liberals"? "Democratic Party"? "Republican Party"? "The Economic System which got us all into this mess"?

Hmmm.....The real danger for the UK and the US, is that we ignore what has happened, stick our heads in the sand and allow the political criminals to put a band aid on a life threatening wound.

As I've said before, all but the underclass have a little left to lose and while this is the case we will hang onto the status quo.

There are really no Labour Conservative Republicans or Democrats left. We have become slaves to what the system requires.

Simply cogs in the machine.

So any maverick from left or right will be either quietly marginalised, ridiculed, or killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 11:51 AM

My perspective is liberal.    I think Sarah's ideas would be disastrous. Starting with the environment.   Do you really think, Ake, that all natural resources should be exploited to the hilt, now, just because humans want to do so---she would push to kill wind, solar, geothermal etc, and open ANWR immediately to all oil drilling.

She would also cut down on regulation of capitalism , and stop any move to try to cover the uninsured by health reform.   

She might well try to take out Iran's nuclear plants by force--and soon.

Are you really in favor of that, Ake?

When you say "political criminals" it sounds perilously close to LH's absurd relativism--as if there is no difference between Obama and Sarah.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 12:40 PM

Of course I dont think there is no difference between Sarah and Mr Obama Ron, and I am sure LH agrees with me.

Personally, I think Sarah is the only "different" to have happened to US or UK politics for decades.
Most politicians use the parasitic, corporate controlled parties to achieve their political position and I include Mr Obama in that.
He is a systems man through and through, a deluded believer in evolutionary socialism.....this belief is encouraged by both parties from time to time as a means of electoral manipulation.
Little Hawk has indeed explained how this works.

Sarah has bone it all completely on her own(except for being McCains surprise choice as VP candidate), and this has proved to be a double edged sword, as the establishment Pubs try hard to marginalise her.

They have failed to kill her off, as her appeal is direct to the grass roots.... no matter what wing at present...as Sarah owes the party nothing, she will be guided by her power base, not the "corporatocracy".

If Democrats were genuine and seeking real change, they would make damn sure they were in that power base, in a position to influence what could turn out to be a completely new kind of politics.

But as Hawk says they are still stuck in the never ending game of "our side being the lesser of two evils"

In short, its about people taking charge of their own destiny...just as Sarah has done.......have you "libs" got the balls for it or will we be shackled to an an unattainable ideal for another century?

Another term of unequal struggle against the system?

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: olddude
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 12:47 PM

Well I watched about 10 minutes of her show. I actually just wanted to see Alaska and fishing and hunting and the scenery. What I got 4 seconds into the show was a launch on the elite liberals ... I get so sick of both parties with their labels that it makes me wanna move to some island someplace .. for God Sakes ya just can't have a show about Alaska without it being scripted by the far right huh ... what a shame!

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: olddude
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 12:58 PM

And I am not liberal either, nor am I a modern conservative. I am a registered independent. Now if someone wants to give me a republican party that was my dad's republican party then I may have some choices. But this "Sarah's Alaska" is just a tea party platform and all it does is piss off those of us that do think hard and long before we vote. Alaska is an amazing beautiful place, if you just showed us your Home you may change some minds. Instead , "Todd and I are going to the range, it really sets off those liberal elites" ... click channel gets changed. You wanna try and win some independent votes? it ain't gonna happen that way .. and nobody is going to win without us independents

Wanna talk about liberal elite, how about all the republicans and democrats that both work for and have their hand in the pocket of Goldman Sachs .. the one company that controls the whole economy (with taxpayer dollars)

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: olddude
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 01:06 PM

And give me a candidate that says in his or her platform they are going to put a leash on wall street with some tight new regs and they will get my vote. Right now the billionaire boys club is running the show and main street is dying.   Talk about that Sarah on your show how about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 12:01 AM

Ron, old buddy...

I've been on the soap box for the "fear Palin, she's no joke" position since the beginning. We seem to be on the same page lately.

I saw her show tonight. She and her family were out working salmon boats and processing the fish with her tribal relatives.

For anybody who thinks sneering a Palin is a good idea...

I got to tell you. This woman is the real deal and I'm not going to post here anymore. I'd just be a drag on this community discussion. You folks seem happy with your viewpoint. I'll quit bothering you and let Ron try to wake you up.

I love folk music; enjoy maritime folk; and like most Mudcatters, I admire folks who actually work boats. I like and admire Native American cultures. Watching Sarah Palin clean up boats, fillet and smoke fish, push her daughters into a hard-work-and-earn-your-keep consciousness, has left me impressed.

I may not be a big fan of her politics or her skill set, but I'm just not going to listen to any more careless jokes that just sound to me like a particularly overt kind of sexist elitism.

Working salmon boats for a couple of decades may not make me vote for you. But if you have done it, you have done enough to earn my respect.

See you guys on another thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: GUEST,John
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 12:03 AM

oops, last post was from John. Delete it or identify it as you wish, moderator.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: kendall
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 03:48 PM

She has the IQ of a soil sample and the more she blathers the more it shows.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: gnu
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 04:01 PM

Kendall. That's pretty low.

I think she has the IQ of a soiled sample. I don't usually go for oneupmanship but I think it's appropriate in this case.

Guest... "This woman is the real deal..." She ain't dealin with a full deck. She's a bona fide, uneducated twit. Or a good actress engaged in a ruse and those that vote for her... do the arithmetic if you can.

Of course, Garge got elected... TWICE... hmmmmm... scarey stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: kendall
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 07:52 PM

Justice John Paul Stevens who retired from the Supreme Court said that the court made a bad mistake in 2000 by stopping the recount. I agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 08:48 PM

Yeah, kendall, I saw that too. That certainly would have changed a lot of recent history!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: gnu
Date: 05 Dec 10 - 09:58 PM

Just watched a couple of her shows. Apart from the fact that she came off a bit flaky on the Bou hunting show, and the fact that she absolutely has NO qualifications for any public office, what a babe! I actually had tears in my eyes when she cried about those kids. What a woman!

But, a pres? Even a governor? Nah.

Subject: RE: BS: Help stop Sarah Palin's 'Nature Show'
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 10:22 AM

what a babe!

Yeah, the Bimbo President.

THAT thought is enough to put tears in ANY sentient being's eyes.