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Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye

Valmai Goodyear 29 Oct 10 - 02:17 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 29 Oct 10 - 03:10 PM
Dave Hanson 29 Oct 10 - 03:13 PM
GUEST,guest - Jim Younger 30 Oct 10 - 12:18 PM
stallion 30 Oct 10 - 01:11 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 30 Oct 10 - 04:57 PM
GUEST 30 Oct 10 - 06:57 PM
GUEST,BanjoRay 30 Oct 10 - 07:27 PM
Tug the Cox 30 Oct 10 - 07:50 PM
YorkshireYankee 30 Oct 10 - 08:19 PM
GUEST,BanjoRay 31 Oct 10 - 02:46 AM
MGM·Lion 31 Oct 10 - 03:51 AM
Rob Naylor 31 Oct 10 - 04:30 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 31 Oct 10 - 05:50 AM
GUEST,Desi C 31 Oct 10 - 07:23 AM
Phil Edwards 31 Oct 10 - 07:44 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 31 Oct 10 - 07:45 AM
Rob Naylor 31 Oct 10 - 11:54 AM
Folkiedave 31 Oct 10 - 12:05 PM
squeezyjohn 31 Oct 10 - 03:47 PM
framus 31 Oct 10 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,BanjoRay 31 Oct 10 - 07:37 PM
Splott Man 01 Nov 10 - 04:49 AM
GUEST,guest Jim Younger 01 Nov 10 - 09:23 AM
Dave Hanson 01 Nov 10 - 10:22 AM
Maurice Mann 01 Nov 10 - 12:55 PM
Dave Hanson 02 Nov 10 - 03:43 AM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 03 Nov 10 - 03:19 AM
The Sandman 03 Nov 10 - 02:38 PM
GUEST,John B 05 Nov 10 - 06:03 AM
ChanteyLass 06 Nov 10 - 12:13 AM
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Subject: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 02:17 PM

The current edition of Private Eye (no.1274) has a cartoon about a folk club in its 'Scenes You Seldom See' series. It shows a bearded guitarist with a cap and a pony-tail saying to his audience, 'I am sure you all know the chorus to this next one, but I'd prefer it if you don't join in'.

This is heartening, because it suggests that enough readers of the UK's leading satirical magazine will be familiar enough with folk clubs to get the joke.

Valmai (Lewes)


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 03:10 PM

The cartoonist obviously never attended a folk club gig by Jody Stecher.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 03:13 PM

Ralph McTell says it when singing 'From Clare To Here '

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: GUEST,guest - Jim Younger
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 12:18 PM

Absolutely spot on, Hootenanny! Jody Stecher and Kate Brislin came to our club and Mr S was horrified to find the audience belting out the chorus of Hard Times with them. So he asked them to desist. I was MC that night and he asked me to announce OMERTA before putting them on in the second half ... I could see his point, but he was a bit of a dick about it. He complained afterwards that I hadn't said exactly what he wanted me to say .. but I felt that if I had, it would have made him seem an even bigger dick. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Great musician, though.


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: stallion
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 01:11 PM

OMERTA? Is that the Stasi of the folk police?


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 04:57 PM

Too true Jim I can quite understand why he wouldn't appreciate all and sundry joining in when he and Kate obviously work so hard to get the excellent sound they produce. He is a great musician but can be a little bit "tetchy" sometimes. I was sorry not to catch him appearing with Pete Rowan when they over a few weeks back.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 06:57 PM

Yes, Hoot, it's understandable, and to be honest, I would rather hear them sing without an impromptu choir, as would some of the audience no doubt. All the situation was, was a breakdown in communication and expectations all round - concert vs. folk club, in an intimate room, with a high regular attendance who expect to sing. I sounded a bit 'tetchy' myself in that earlier post - I apologise to Mister Stecher! Indigestion to blame.

I didn't know he was over with Pete Rowan - tarnation.

Jim


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: GUEST,BanjoRay
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 07:27 PM

They were at the Didmarton Bluegrass Festival in September. They did a good set, but Jody's voice was totally screwed with laryngitis. They really appreciated the audience joining in - heh heh.
Ray


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 07:50 PM

Still no explanation of OMERTA. Please let me in to the loop.


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 08:19 PM

I didn't know what it was either, so I looked it up on dictionary.com:

omerta
noun Italian
secrecy sworn to by oath; code of silence.
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, copyright Random House, Inc. 2010.

Word Origin & History
omerta
1909, from dial. form of It. umilta "humility," from L. humilitas (see humility).
Online Etymology Dictionary, copyright 2010 Douglas Harper


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: GUEST,BanjoRay
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 02:46 AM

Omerta is the code of honour employed by the Mafia, according to The Godfather (book, not film I think)
Ray


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 03:51 AM

... which of course means that those subject to it must not 'SING' ~~ which I take to be the pun implicit in the concept of declaring "omerta" on an audience who are being requested to refrain from joining in a chorus song?

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 04:30 AM

Hoot: saw Ralph McT in Sevenoaks last week, and he was positively jovial. Not tetchy at all, and bantering with the audience from time to time. He didn't do "Clare To Here" so no idea what he'd have said about joining in that, but he positively encouraged everyone to sing along to "Streets" ( I guess he has to have one sacrificial song :-) )

I took a young lady of 34 to the gig. She'd never heard of him at all, but was highly impressed by his guitar skills, his singing/ songwriting AND the way he interacted with the audience, including mingling in the foyer afterwards. She thought the breadth of subjects that inspired his songs was very wide, and is now checking out Rev Gary Davis, Robert Johnson and Davy Graham, all of whom he cited as influences.


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 05:50 AM

Rob, my posting referred to Jody Stecher NOT Ralph McTell.
Can I suggest that your young lady friend also explores the music of Willie McTell the man from whom Ralph took his stage name.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 07:23 AM

Surely the whole point og songs with great chorus's if sung in a folk club is the joining in, asking them n ot to is a bit like giving someone a tasty sandwich but asking them to eat it without the middle b it!
Reminded me of a night at our club recenty, an old chap I thought had said join in the chorus, kept stopping with a disgusted look on his face when I did just that, turned out later he'd actually said 'don't' join in! His wife saw the funny side and said "he takes it all far too seriously"

Desi C
The Circle Folk Club
UK West Mid's
every Wed
info- crc778@aol.com


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 07:44 AM

I learned "Lowlands" from Anne Briggs's version & did it one night at the local FC, which is very much of the "face front, listen politely and clap at the end" persuasion. Some time later I did it at a singaround - completely different song, and much more powerful. Hurrah for choruses, and audiences who know them (or are willing to learn them).


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 07:45 AM

This is heartening, because it suggests that enough readers of the UK's leading satirical magazine will be familiar enough with folk clubs to get the joke.

Thanks for pointing this out, Valmai - Private Eye week again so soon! I appreciate your optimistic spin on things, but those 'Scenes You Seldon See' are predicated on a sort of alternative universe in which the less savoury norms of this one are (mercifully) inverted. I note that the cartoonist's confidence in his readers to get it didn't extent so far as to trust them to recognise the unchanging stereotypes without the words FOLK CLUB to help them along!

Unchanging stereotypes? Hell, the singer looks a lot like me, only I don't play guitar and actively encourage chorus singing. I do get irritated, however, by people who insist on singing along with the song itself though, which can be a real problem - ballads included. I've actually withdrawn from folk clubs where this has been a recurring problem rather than confront the perpetrators - anything for an easy life, eh? My bugbear is going to folk clubs with a PA and being asked to join in on a chorus by an amplified singer who then proceeds to drown out the unamplified chorus only to say "Well sung!" at the end. Chorus singing is about raising either hairs or roofs with communal vibration; PAs kill it stone dead.


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 11:54 AM

Sorry, Hoot...I conflated parts of 2 adjacent posts in my mind!

Must be getting old. Thirty four year olds who've never heard of "names" from my youth certainly reinforce that perception. Though she also hasn't heard of some of the young Indie bands I listen to...I plan on weaning her away from mainstream "chart" stuff that gets airplay on national radio!


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: Folkiedave
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 12:05 PM

On a similar note - Mike Harding used to say "If you feel like clapping along with the tune - don't".

And I am inclined to agree with him.


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: squeezyjohn
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 03:47 PM

And just this week at the Red Lion in Birmingham, Chris Wood & Andy Cutting were launching in to one of their older Canadian ones. Everyone started stamping and clapping.

Chris Wood just leant in to the mic and shouted "IT'S A FUCKING WALTZ!" - I wouldn't have done that ... but he was right.


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: framus
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 07:33 PM

On the subject of Private Eye cartoons. The Cloggies never raised this much controversy.


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: GUEST,BanjoRay
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 07:37 PM

The only people who ever clap along are the ones who can't tell a waltz from a jig from a reel.


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: Splott Man
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 04:49 AM

I think the reason Ralphie may have said that (jokingly) about Clare to Here is because the version in the popular mind has diverged from his own over time (possibly to do with the Fureys' version) and they don't mix well.


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: GUEST,guest Jim Younger
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 09:23 AM

Thanks to Michael for spotting the pun 'no singing' within OMERTA - I hadn't noticed it myself, but dammit, sir, you're right.

Jim


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 10:22 AM

Ralph Mctell said that everyone sings what they THINK is the chorus, not what he is singing, cos they don't listen, so he asks them not to sing along.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: Maurice Mann
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 12:55 PM

The Lade Inn, north of Callander, near where I live in Scotland, has live folk bands every Friday and Saturday. They hand out song books with all the words (most bands seem to be able to play most of the 100 or so songs) and expect everybody to join in at all times.
This is fun for the foreign tourists, less so for the Sassenachs forced to sing Killiecrankie, Johnny Cope, Flower of Scotland etc.

They also sell excellent real ale.


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 03:43 AM

The best pint of real ale I ever had in Scotland was at The Riverside Inn at Canonbie in Dumfriesshire, it was Black Sheep brewed in Yorkshire.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 03:19 AM

What i really hate is when the singer deconstructs the song. The audience get the idea that he doesn't actually know the tune or words. They try to help him out. they end up snarling at each other.


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 02:38 PM

the silent clap is the best clap, but try and avoid catching the clap, its better [and less expensive] to catch a fallen star.


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: GUEST,John B
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 06:03 AM

Mike Harding also used to say, "This song has a refrain - that means you join in".


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Subject: RE: Folk Club cartoon in Private Eye
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 12:13 AM

One of the many things I love about Pete Seeger is that he encourages his audiences to sing along--and they do. One of the things I dislike about many (not all!) singer-songwriters is that they do not encourage audiences to sing along.


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