BS: Qantas A380 blows engine

Subject: BS: Qantas A30 blows engine
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 07:07 AM

It's all over the news here in Oz - you can see (Google if you want the full story) the pics of the engines cover blown off and the charring. Took off from Singapore and dropped bits over Bataan.

All safe. Qantas has temporarily grounded all A30s and rerouted passengers.

The worrying problem is that it is the first one to do this trick, and is the oldest A30 in the Qantas fleet and it is only a few years old - just done it's first big service - done at Lufthansa. The engines have been maintained by Rolls Royce, so the bleating of the Maintainence Union that Qantas was cutting corners seems to be not relevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A30 blows engine
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 08:14 AM

A380 matey, and it's the second one to suffer failure of an engine.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A30 blows engine
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 12:03 PM

Quantas isn't owned by Ryanair by any chance???

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A30 blows engine
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 12:37 PM

I live a couple of miles from a GE Jet engine plant. They might think this is good news.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A30 blows engine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:12 PM

"SINGAPORE – Qantas grounded its Airbus A380 fleet after one of the superjumbo jets blew out an engine Thursday, shooting flames and raining large metal chunks before making a safe emergency landing in Singapore with 459 people aboard.

It was most serious midair incident involving the double-decker A380, the world's largest and latest airliner, since it debuted in October 2007 with Singapore Airlines flying it to Sydney — the same route that Qantas flight QF34 was flying when it was stricken."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101104/ap_on_bi_ge/as_singapore_qantas_emergency

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:49 PM

This video says there are 37 A380 aircraft in service, and about half of them have the Rolls Royce engines that failed.

The Airbus A-380 is the largest passenger aircraft in the world with a wingspan of 80 meters and a length of 73 meters. The next-largest passenger aircraft is the Boeing 747-400, with a length of 71 meters and a wingspan of 64.4 meters. I have to say that I was a bit disappointed when the A-380 came out. I was expecting something with a much higher "coolness factor." The A-380 looks just like a regular passenger jet, but on steroids.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Brian May
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 03:35 PM

Having spent 35 years as a flight engineer, the grounding of the jets (however new) is just an exercise in prudence.

Nothing more than responsibility and ensuring passenger (and reputation) safety should be inferred at this stage.

If they blithely went on their way ignoring this catastrophic engine failure (meaning some of the bits on the inside, made it to the outside) then they'd be (rightly) accused of being too cavalier.

It is just possible the engine had sustained damage from something like a bird-strike or FOD (foreign object debris/damage), and it got worse - the engines obviously work hardest on take off and climb - the aircraft is at its heaviest at that point.

An aircraft like this has multiple redundancy in its systems - meaning it can sustain quite a few failures before it could be construed as 'life threatening'.

However, that said, they are really ugly and look like they've been designed by a Russian Aviation Bureau rather than Airbus. The 747 looks much nicer although I did most of my flying on Hercules, Tristars and DC10.

Whilst understandably shaken, passengers who 'defied death' in this incident are really just being a bit 'drama-queen' ish. They were not in much danger. Moreover it's the poor sods on the ground who were at most risk when several square feet of metal arrived from the sky.

Let's watch with interest.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 03:39 PM

Its cool cause it is big. But there are cooler big cool planes.

Google "Super Guppy"

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: gnu
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 04:28 PM

Brian... indeed. Coulda been a piece of loose concrete crack sealant.

I was on one job in Wabush, Labrador. We had a one metre wide trench across the runway at the button. It was only down to the gravel when a B737 did a full runnup for takeoff, which was contrary to the NOTAM (notice to airmen)... 100mm thick asphaltic concrete was peeled up and folded back over like paper. Soooo... when one a them BIGGER whales lights up on take off, with that huge wing span, FOD is a problem and it doesn't take a big piece of whatever to damage fins at that speed.

But, as you say, backup pays as it did in the subject instance.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Tangledwood
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 05:24 PM

Whilst understandably shaken, passengers who 'defied death' in this incident are really just being a bit 'drama-queen' ish.

As the news was breaking on ABC TV yesterday arvo interviewed passengers said that everybody was calm. They praised the cabin crew's handling of the situation and that the passengers were kept informed at all times. As usual it seems to be the media that introduce the phrases such as 'defied death'. Even on ABC's own evening news the journalist's description and choice of words didn't match that from the passengers.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Brian May
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 06:04 PM

Oh I completely agree that the media play it up - but sadly they always manage to find some drama queen that wants their 5 minutes of fame.

Professional cabin and flight crews matter incredibly much. Looks like it was all well handled.

Well done all.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 06:17 PM

Sorry for the typo fixed now.

Passenger video screened here shows that there was minor wing and fuselage damage. It also shows fuel leaking from under the wing - but perhaps that was just the fuel dump - I don't know where the dump vents are.

Apparently the reason from the water spraying was that one engine would not shut down - they didn't say which one, but the footage I saw seems to imply that it was the damaged one. There was supposedly also a small fuel leak as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 06:39 PM

More footage - on landing (previous footage mentioned was clearly in higher level flight), you can clearly see thin vapor venting from under the wing further out from previous footage mentioned.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: 3refs
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 07:20 PM

After every flight, Qantas pilots fill out a form, called a "gripe sheet," which tells mechanics about problems with the aircraft. The mechanics correct the problems, document their repairs on the form, and then pilots review the gripe sheets before the next flight.

Never let it be said that ground crews lack a sense of humour. Here are some actual maintenance complaints submitted by Qantas' pilots (marked with a P) and the solutions recorded (marked with an S) by maintenance engineers.

By the way, Qantas is the only major airline that has never had an accident.

P: Left inside main tyre almost needs replacement.
S: Almost replaced left inside main tyre.

P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.
S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.

P: Something loose in cockpit.
S: Something tightened in cockpit.

P: Dead bugs on windshield.
S: Live bugs on back-order.

P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute descent.
S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.

P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.
S: Evidence removed.

P: DME volume unbelievably loud.
S: DME volume set to more believable level.

P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.
S: That's what they're for.

P: IFF inoperative.
S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.

P: Suspected crack in windshield.
S: Suspect you're right.

P: Number 3 engine missing.
S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.

P: Aircraft handles funny.
S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right, and be serious.

P: Target radar hums.
S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.

P: Mouse in cockpit.
S: Cat installed.

And the best one for last...
P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget pounding on something with a hammer.
S: Took hammer away from midget

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 12:23 AM

There is a well known reassurance given to pilots moving up from single engine to multiple engine aircraft.

"If you lose an engine, you may be confident that the remaining engine has sufficient power to carry you to the point of impact."

I've never heard of one failing to do so.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 04:33 AM

Many years ago when I took my first commercial flight, I was a bit nervous. Then I looked out the window and saw the RR logo on the engine. That was a comfort to me. Now, I dunno...

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 06:17 AM

I was on that bugger recently! Taking off from Singapore too...

I love A380, and use both Qantas and Singapore Airlines versions. (I even ended up having an unnecessary stopover in order to be on one rather than a 747. They are that good.)

I am a nervous flyer all the same, so despite being thousands of miles from the scene, it fair shook me (!)

Wonderful documentary recently about the Derby RR factory and the making of the engines. Things can go wrong with anything, but from the photos, although superficial debris was strewn, the main carcass remained bolted to the wing with no dangerous damage to that wing. interestingly, depending on the cause, this could actually be a good advert for the engine after all...

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: bubblyrat
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 08:43 AM

I feel a bit sorry for the former FAA Sea Vixen & Phantom F4K pilot who lives in Oz, and has just started driving the A380 ; I imagine he will be having an enforced break for a while now !
    Incidentally ; that's not the same RR engine that's due to be used for the main propulsion system in the new RN aircraft-carriers, is it ?? Although it wouldn't surprise me.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 09:13 AM

Today's news says design flaw or material failure. Maybe grounding the fleet was not an overreaction.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 09:18 AM

I think the cabin crew should have issued a full set of "brown pants" to the passengers who wished to so avail themselves.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 09:36 AM

QANTAS have had accidents.. just no fatal ones to date. People have been injured in some of those accidents/incidents too. I believe they have also had airframe losses. As an aside, John Travolta still owns an ex QUANTAS B707 and flies it regularly from his own backyard!

The Super Guppy was brilliant. I have been in one. They used to fly regularly into Manchester and Chester for airbus wings. Now the Beluga does it. The Beluga is better and often overfly's my home. But neither are close to the size of the A380. Turn to the Russians for massive cargo aircraft but the A380 is still the biggest commercial airliner.

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 09:49 AM

That should have been QANTAS B707 of course... sorry.

Can a Mudcat Elf correct please and make this on disappear?

thanks

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 12:37 PM

Interesting enough The Guardian's website lists this at the minute in the 'breaking news' headline. Nothing more detailed as yet.

LATEST: Qantas jet returns to Singapore with engine problem shortly after takeoff today - reports. More details soon .

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 02:31 PM

This ltest incident involved a B747-400. It was a standard shut down on the Rolls Royce RB211 No 1 engine which returned with a minor fault and was released back to service within 3 hours. Had the A380 incident not occurred I doubt the B747 incident would have made any news at all. Engines are shut down in flight almost every day across the world as safety procedures and seldom do they make the news. Although this was another Rolls-Royce engine, the RB-211 has an excellent safety record

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 06:14 PM

The footage was originally confusing because of the camera angles - It seemed that the A380 outside engine failed, but it was the inboard engine (No 2 as stated). The fluid stream I mentioned was from the inboard engine, which did make a leak. There was a visible condensation cloud thru the flaps from that area on the landing. It was the outside engine (No 1) that would not shut down, and was cooled by the water spray on the ground. This was all a bit confusing at first due to the various camera angles, sorry. I just heard a passenger say that she saw small debris strike her window. Apparently a couple of types also burst.

I'm a bit puzzled why the passengers were held inside the plane for so long a while at first. The pilot did not want the slides used, as apparently some passengers always end up with injuries, so the steps were used.

It's nice that the Bataan people who gathered up the bits, and the authorities who safeguarded them were so publicly thanked. Most people like to do 'the right thing' and it is always a good thing to thank them for doing it. Some engine internal bits were also recovered.

The media is always hysterically sensationalist about all this stuff - I did a journalism course with a bunch of top world ex-editors - all the mature age people on the course were horrified and annoyed when our attempts to write dispassionately were put down and rephrased into 'normal' sensational language - we were told we would not get jobs if we wrote the way we did, and 'shown how to write "factual stuff"' in the stereotypical sensational hysterical journalistic mode. One of the exercises we did was about a similar airliner incident.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Tangledwood
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 05:40 AM

3refs - the gripe sheet is often attributed to Qantas but the giveaway is IFF(identification friend or foe), which is military equipment. I read on an aviation forum that the sheet actually originated with the USN. Just being pedantic - that joke is always good for a laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: 3refs
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 04:55 PM

I find the more research I do about alot of things, the more I realize that most things are either started by the military or taken over by the military.....or ended by the military!

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Tangledwood
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 06:50 PM

LOL I think you're probably right!

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Phot
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 09:46 PM

IFF is standard fit on all aircraft, Mil and Civ. A 'Gripe sheet' is also standard, how else would the ground crew whats was tits up?

Looking at the images of the jet, it appears that the compresser section of the engine let go, which would have then taken out the combustion and turbine sections, bye, bye engine cowlings! It also looks like like some engine parts went though the mainplane, so some poor bugger has one hell of a Cat 3 to play with!

Wassail!! Chris

(My Cat 3Q may have expired, but give me a big pile of rivets and a few sheets of ally, I can fix most things!)

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 11:54 PM

Ahhhhh, let me see if I have this straight... Ya' have an airplane with 4 engines each the size of a three car garage and loose one???

Call me when yer down to two...

Man, I could tell ya'll of some terrorizing times in sumabichin' airplanes make this stuff seem like a picnic in the park...

(You already have done that, Boberdz...)

Nevermind... Think of it this way... Ain't no wortser than a burned #4 exhaust valve in Rether Mae's Chevette??? Sho nuff ain't... I mean, still get you up to the top of the mountain...

(spit)

I mean, ya'll folks wantin' all them airplane motors runnin' when yer up there ya'll gonna have to get over it...

Have a nice day...

Yer Captain's boss...

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 12:13 AM

Bobert, I'm reminded of the joke about the military fighter and transport trying to outdo each other .... (What did you do? We just shut down an engine ...) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Tangledwood
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 04:08 AM

IFF is standard fit on all aircraft, Mil and Civ.

Civil aircraft have equipment that performs most of the same functions but they refer to it as a transponder, not IFF. The difference is in the terminology rather than the equipment.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 11:21 AM

Foolestroope... I heard it was a B52 that ws approached by an F-4 Phantom. The Phantom rolled around the B-2 and it is alleged the Phantom jockey said "Like to see you do that!". A couple of minutes passed ad the B-52 pilot retrorted "I'd like to see you do that!". The the B-52 had kept it's track and seemingly done nothing. "Do what?" said the Phantom jockey... "We just shut down two engines" said the B-52 pilot lol

Not sure how true it is. I am sure many pilot jokes do the rounds and get changed.

The best one was the ATC who asked who the joker was asking to climb to FL650. The reply came back from an SR-71 Blackbird "Who said anything about climbing? We wish to decend to FL650!"

:-)


I has a Flt Lt in the RAF who was alledgedly grounded for rolling a Victor tanker!

Legends the lot of them lol

mp
mp

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 01:43 PM

Legends that are true:

When the 747 was first being shown around, a well known (infamous might be the better term) pilot snap-rolled a 747 at an air show.

(It's also been done with a B52, but not at full gross wt so far as indicated by details that were released.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 02:33 PM

What I meant was...

These people are (or should be) legends.

Sorry it it looked like I was denigrating them in some way

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Brian May
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 04:05 PM

Civil aircraft do NOT carry IFF.

They carry SSR - Secondary Surveillance Radar

Identification Friend or Foe, carries out some of the functions of SSR (usually Mode 3 with 'C', or height encoding).

IFF can be interrogated by certain missile and radar defence systems - the theory being that your 'own' side will not shoot you down.

Sadly, in the Gulf War, it didn't always work. An RAF Tornado was shot down by an American air defence system despite the correctly coded IFF - so it's not foolproof - especially when human beings are involved.

Sorry about the thread drift.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 05:25 PM

But Civil Aircraft do carry transponders that "reply" to pings from controllers on the ground. Many of these can also respond to other nearby aircraft if both are equipped for it. The return specifically identifies the individual airplane. The pilots consider it pretty much an IFF, since by knowing the airplane they know whether to report the time by "which way Mickey's hands point" or to use standard nomenclature. (Pilots are a little like truckers.)

The only essential difference between the Civil transponders and the Military IFF is that the IFF changes "codes" - and probably frequencies - frequently to prevent an enemy from disguising itself as "friendly."

There are apparently trustable reports that the military also uses IFF on ground vehicles, and in COMM devices carried by individual ground units, but I don't know how prevalent that practice is since I haven't been interested enough to look for details.

There are confirmed reports that many military aircraft carry "radar detectors" just like the ones you can put in your automobile (legally in some places). This was a growing practice among pilots who bought their own at the nearest truck stop, prior to orders being placed by the military to purchase them in quantity for large numbers of tactical aircraft. (Since the commercial radar detectors are pretty sloppy about what signals they detect, they were found to be better than existing military stuff for detecting incoming radar controlled weapons. No real help for Sidewinder style stuff though.) One might expect that the FAA will soon require them in commercial civil aircraft if the paranoia continues.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 05:13 AM

New report - 3 more Qantas A380 engines found with problems - oil leaks in the turbine area - been removed from the planes for further 'tests'. This will delay things by a further 72 hours.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Brian May
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 07:16 AM

RWR or Radar Warning Receivers have been around for years in military aircraft.

IFF has software/hardware that goes well beyond SSR fitted to civilian aircraft. TCAS (or now, more correctly ACAS) uses the signal between aircraft to give guidance on collision avoidance.

Collision avoidance currently gives pilots co-ordinated advice to climb or descend to resolve the conflict, each being given the opposite advice i.e. one aircraft climb and the other, descend.

Pilots may 'consider this pretty much as IFF', but it's not. I won't go into the differences regarding why and how, as you can Google that as well as anyone, and it saves me impinging on areas that I shouldn't.

Back to the A380, this is not good news particularly for Rolls Royce, but it does show how seriously all parties view the problem. In my book, it should reassure the travelling public that their safety is regarded as of prime importance.

Best of luck to all the aircraft/engine manufacturers as incidents such as these are not much fun for anybody. Also, well done the crew!

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Phot
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 09:42 AM

All of a sudden this thread becomes TLA alley!

TTFN!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Brian May
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 05:10 PM

NFI TBN BFN

BWM

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 06:22 PM

Rolls-Royce says fault specific to A380 engine Rolls-Royce says it has made "good progress" in understanding the cause of last week's mid-air engine blowout, which forced the emergency landing of a Qantas Airbus A380 in Singapore.

Qantas grounded its six A380s last Thursday after an engine broke apart in flight, forcing QF32 to make an emergency landing in Singapore with 459 passengers and crew on board.

Rolls-Royce says the cause of the blow-out is specific to its Trent 900 engine, which powers the A380 aircraft.

A series of inspections have been agreed on with operators of the A380 and with regulators.

The statement from the aircraft engine manufacturer comes as Qantas extends the grounding of its A380 fleet after finding oil leaks in some engines.

Rolls-Royce has been almost silent in the wake of last week's very public incident, in which time its shares have slid by nearly 14 per cent, wiping $2.4 billion off its market value.

But since its statement today shares have rebounded slightly by 2.7 per cent.

Earlier, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce said the oil leaks found in the engine were beyond normal tolerances and could be the cause of last week's emergency.

"Those engines have been removed from the aircraft in question and Rolls-Royce are using those engines to test them and look for - could this be the real cause of the QF32 incident last week?" he said.

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 07:32 PM

Roger, Roger, what's the vector Victor? Get the clearance Clarence....

lol

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 09:20 PM

Interestingly, the Aussie guy making public statements for Qantas has a strong thick accent. His pronunciation of "QF32" sounds like "QF turkey too"... which somehow I find amusingly appropriate....

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: bubblyrat
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 11:12 AM

944-1
944-2
AI-18
ARC-52
TACAN
Violet Picture....

Aaagh, the Good Old Days !!

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Phot
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 04:45 AM

My favorite from the old F700.....

Fault: Evidence of oil leak on engine nacelle.

Work Completed: Evidence removed!

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: bubblyrat
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 07:18 AM

Verbal complaints / observations by eager young Subbies / Middies of " Wah in the cockpit !" were funnier .

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: Brian May
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 07:43 AM

PTR175
LORAN
DECCA

I'm with you . . . aaaaaargh!

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:21 AM

TV Doco being advertised here says that 85 people have died in (historical) Qantas crashes ... so much for "never had a crash"...

Subject: RE: BS: Qantas A380 blows engine
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:34 AM

Breaking news - Boeing 767 lands with vibrating engine ...

I suppose all this is now 'news"?