BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??

Subject: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 12:42 PM

I'm going to have a brand new garden this Winter, it'll be a completely blank canvas with *nothing whatsoever* (bar a big rectangle of grass) in it!

This means that we get the opportunity to plan it all out for ourselves. From what I understand Winter (or maybe Autumn) is the best time of year to initiate such a project, and get all the boring muddy stuff done ready for the new year...

Thing is we're only 'potterers' in the garden, never had a project like this before that entails doing all the planning and soil preparation and so-on.. So where to start?

The front garden is relatively small and North facing. There is a busy road out front that I'd like to shield the house from.
The back garden is around 120ft long (and maybe 40ft wide) and South facing.

As a general guide I love the romance of cottage gardens (who doesn't), ornamental potagers (especially 'heritage vegetables'), historic medicinal herbal gardens, woodland flowers and bulbs. And indeed pretty much anything green and growing that has a bit of magic, mystery and folk-lore attached.

I'd love to get this garden started right so we can make it something special in the years to come. Help!

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 01:09 PM

Search on google for bare root beech hedging plants. Now is the right time to plant them. That takes care of the boundary with the street.
Under them any woodland bulbs would do well, snowdrops, bluebells, wild daffodils, primroses. Foxgloves, lily of the valley and ferns are all shade tolerant.

Or holly, but that's slow growing. It comes in various variegated forms, get one male to 5 females to get berries.

Assuming your back boundaries are all fences you could get a variety of cottagey climbing things for them, honeysuckle, wild rose are my favourites.

If you want a dedicated veggie patch, mark it out now. Digging it depends on soil and weather. If you're on clay and it's plodgy probably best leave it till the spring. Early potatoes are good and soil doesn't need much prepping.

For borders lavender is good.

Where are you? I might have some spare things.

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: gnu
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 01:09 PM

Round here, the only thing we can grow is flu, icicles and old.

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: pdq
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 01:29 PM

Can one assume that you own this property? If so, there is almost no way that an attractive garden will not increase the value of the property more than the cost.

The first thing to do is draw large outline of each prospective garden area and make several copies.

Do as much research as you can and get ideas from magazines and websites. Adapt what you see to your area and do some improvisation.

A simple ornamental garden in front keeps passers-by from swiping the veggies.

The backyard could be built around walkways and raised planter boxes for veggies.

There is a European traditional style based on a "wagon spoke" design with a central feature such as a sun dial.

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 01:38 PM

Paws, I was daft and forgot to add there is already a low hedge at front - it looks to be a not very exciting coniferous hedge so although I'd love something gorgeous like holly (some lovely berries out in the hedgerows and woods right now) it's already there, and of course will remain green over the winter which is a bonus. I'm planning to allow that to grow to six foot so it will block out the road from the kitchen. But I also want to grow a visual 'green screen' as to block the road from the bedroom window too. I'd prefer a native tree so my Dad suggested an Elder that's got points for having folk-lore interest and being wild-life friendly. Plus being pretty and even practical too). Though I've also considered Almond and Mulberry, don't know much about them though.

I'm in Essex, anyone relatively local who could share interesting seeds, cuttings or root divisions would be greatly appreciated! (eg: Woodland Plants, Wild Flowers, Heritage Veg., Cottage Garden Flowers and all kinds of Herbs)

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: acegardener
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 01:43 PM

Before you do any planting, look out of your windows, then fix a focal point for something a bit interesting like a mini ring of standing stones, preferably with the aid of some dousing wires to find an old ley line. Then if you are into folk music and legends get a book of herbals and try to theme it around a mystics garden with wolfbane, digitalis, ladys tresses etc.

I theme all the gardens I build and have great fun researching a theme. Just remember there is no such thing as low maintenance.

Coloured Veg. is all the rage now with purple spuds, black tomatoes, white radish, pink cauliflowers. so no need to seperate veg from flowers mix them all in. One of you first jobs is to get a load of dung and spread it on top so the goodness gets into the ground for later years.

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 02:08 PM

"a mini ring of standing stones, preferably with the aid of some dousing wires to find an old ley line. Then if you are into folk music and legends get a book of herbals and try to theme it around a mystics garden with wolfbane, digitalis, ladys tresses etc."

Yeah, I love those kinds of 'fey' plants. Grew some from seed in past but we've moved around a bit though so need to start from scratch. Hadn't considered a 'feature' before but it's a charming idea. I like the idea of dowsing out the garden first too.

As a folk-loric aside, who do I appease when building a new garden, and how? Are there any wee sprites that I should put honey or something out for before digging up their turf? Don't want to annoy the residents!

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 03:36 PM

Elder roots go up to 40 feet and will get in your foundations / drains.
A no-no in a small front garden I would have thought, particularly if the kitchen drains are "just there".
Anything tall enough to be in front of upstairs windows is going to be a problem in a small front garden. Ornamental cherry would be about the only thing I'd consider, or Amelanchier.

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 05:50 PM

I'm no gardener - just been a helper.

Only advice I can give is don't go for main crops but try what you like to taste and what may reward you. Some you will win, some you will loose and you experiment.

When you can say "Thanks God (or whatever you personally believe in) for some really tasty bits", you are probably getting there

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 06:27 PM

We are both landscape/garden designers and landscapers... A lot to plannin' gardens is what it is that you are trying to achieve... Since you have a blank canvas I would suggest that you work on the "bones" of what you want down the road and leave the little stuff alone for now... This means dealing with structure, composition, balance, shapes, textures, etc... If you are in full sun and desire some plants that don't like full sun that means trees... Some trees are not as good as others if you want to plant under them... Maples are hogs... Black walnut are poisonous... Red buds are hogs...

I would have to know what your temperature zone is and your light to begin to suggest trees/shrubs that might act well as your bones... Plus, if you are in the UK that might make it harder since I'm not too sure what you can get there... But willing to help the best we can...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 06:47 PM

Not sure UK works that simply anyway Bobert. One thing that has always been wanted here if an Apricot tree. Pip in Shropshire knew 2 sort of intertwined that as a kid she climbed down her bedroom window from. Apparently they fruited perfectly too. We have one healthy tree here (Norfolk) but it blossoms early wind comes... other attempts have just died.

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 07:41 PM

I'm a believer in not thinking about food first but structure, Jon... Maybe it's an American thing but to me you try to figure out what it is you want from a garden... To me, first and foremost, is the peace of the garden... Once that has been achieved then it's time to mix in areas for food and smaller plantings but the "bones" provide the peace and order and shade and movement and, and...

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: GUEST,Jjon
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 07:46 PM

Maybe it's an American thing...

Maybe it's just a way that works anywhere. I just never see the garden as an exact science - although I too may have plans.

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 07:50 PM

Know what you mean, Jon... A garden is never completed... It's always in a state of evolution... That's what makes 'um so exciting and fun...

BTW, do ya'll have the "long leafed pine" in the UK??? Great "bone" plant...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 04:02 AM

For a tree plant a Rowan - protects agaisnt wichcraft - and also provides berries for for a variety of birds in winter. For a hedge I would get rid of the conifers and plant beech within a few years time some honeysuckle, travellers joy, etc to work their way through it and again feed the birds. I am assuming that the hedge you have is some form of Lawson Cyprus which is a greedy plant and is almost impossible to underplant with anything more interesting. However, next to a busy road, it will screen noise.

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 05:53 AM

Bobert, Southeast of England is pretty temperate.

Summers never much above 30C (usual temps in the mid twenties).

Winters are mainly mild compared to other parts of the world, with night time lows maybe -4C minimum during cold spells (at which point the country freezes up in shock and we have lots of news items about the terrible weather!).

As for rain, well they say it's the driest part of England here, but we still seem to get our fair share! Though there are sometimes hosepipe bans at the height of Summer, I don't exactly have to worry about plants suitable for desert conditions.

Van, yes a Rowan might work well. Very pretty tree in berry too. Pity about the hedge though. I'll have to give that some consideration.

I'll be mainly away from Mudcat for a while. But I will continue to check in on this thread when I get the chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 07:41 AM

Sounds like what we call a "7-B" climate zone... Let's see, -4C is around 20 Degrees Fahrenheit, if I am not mistaken...

Hmmmmmm??? Yeah, sounds like a perfect place to garden even with the dry climate...

I still kind wonder what it is you expect to achieve, Sister-C... Ornamentals??? Food??? Flowering plants??? Shade??? No shade??? Privacy???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 08:13 AM

I'm thinking I could possibly divide up the length into three squareish sections.

Priorities include food and privacy, but it's mainly about charm, nostalgia and romance for me. I like another posters comment about integrating cottage garden plants and ornamental vegetables.

I'm not big on flashy, glamorous plants. I like subtlety, elegance and mystery. Shade's not a big deal but an area with a seat for contemplation would be nice.

A medicinal herb garden is a must. Because some of these will be poisonous, I'll keep those clear away from the edibles.

I reckon I'll definitely put in some fruit and nut trees. In fact I guess that's the first thing I aught to get on with this winter/early spring. Decide where they should go and get them in.

If I had a sort of 'secret garden' - slightly disheveled but full of interesting things where I could escape like a kid and write stories - in ten or fifteen years, I'd be well chuffed.

Sorry Bobert I think I'm being useless! The more I write the more confusing it sounds. The main thing is deciding what to start with. Trees and asparagus maybe!

Subject: RE: BS: Winter Garden Planning - Advice??
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 08:40 AM

Not really. Sister-C... My advice to you would be to start with plants that not only provide you with privacy but also start to build "rooms" where various gardening needs can be met... That means workin' the perimeters with evergreen and deciduous trees that will grow relatively quickly and start to enclose areas that will be yer future "rooms"... It sounds like you'd like to create a meditation garden so you might use similar trees between your house and where ever you'd like that to be which I would think would be the area furthermost away from car noises and neighbors...

It you use a backdrop of evergreens around the perimeter then you can work nut and fruit trees more toward the interior and closer to you house...

We use cryptomeria radican (google it) primarily for this purpose... It grows quickly, is disease resistant, has a good root system and provides a nice screen... I'm not sure if you have them in the UK but you oughtta be able to find a nursery that has something similar...

BTW, if you were to send me an over head sketch of your property I'd be more than happy to draw up a few ideas for ya...

But... "bones" first" and work yer way down from there...

B~