BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 12:57 PM

If you are going to 'standby' your slams, does that mean you are going to keep quiet about them until they are really needed? Just wondering...

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 12:24 PM

I standby my "slam(s)" but, if any of you wish to post yours here, I, for one, will read them - even if they take more than 3 minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 06:42 PM

With all respect to WAV, no one attacks him personally, not do they attack his rather inane reationary opinions; what they attack is the fact that he choses to PUBLISH & PROMOTES them, which makes them FAIR GAME for the sort of fair minded criticisms that invariably attend a WAV thread. That said The re-Imagined Village is a wealth of genuine wondement, but when he's still publishing such drivel as Traditions exist due to folks being impressed by how their forebears did things; and, when people lose their own culture (due to globalisation/Americanisation, etc.), society suffers, plus our world
becomes less-and-less multicultural and There are many different fiddles from many different lands – for example, the Chinese erhu fiddle, the Norwegian hardanger fiddle and, the one most in the West now play, the Italian fiddle/violin. etc. you have to wonder.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: DougR
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 02:18 PM

Wow, Spaw! Miracle DO happen! After ten years, you said something I am in agreement with! :>

Mick: Your post, as Forum Moderator, made on 09 Nov 10 chastising posters for their personal attacks on WAV: when did you get religion? Perhaps a review of your personal attacks on me from time to time might be in order IF personal attacks are no longer permitted.
:>) This comment is not to be taken as support FOR personal attacks however.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 08:51 PM

WAV

Your attempts to 'explain' your bizarre concepts and assertions only serve to demonstrate to me the rather flimsy nature of your understanding. Your points are unarguable not because of any validity but because they are inconsistent ill researched (Wiki) and generally off the wall.

But you have a right to hold your opinions - just don't expect any one to agree

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 04:11 PM

Sorry WAV I've been careless in reading your posts.

The pursuit of happiness is indeed important and the biggest impediment to happiness and understanding of our true place in this world is of course Capitalism.

What we are to replace it with, is for future generations to determine.....I salute you for trying to spread the message on the invidious nature of the "great money trick"

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 10:26 AM

I've tried in verse and prose, Tim, so why don't you just tune in to some current affairs programmes.

This isn't good enough, David. You're now starting to respond as you have done in previous threads - just making assertions with no textual evidence. Telling someone to "just tune into some current affairs programmes" is not evidence which supports your claims - as discussions in current affairs programmes are often themselves assertions.

You're perfectly free to make whatever claims you like but, unless you can point other people to the hard, factual sources on which you base the claims - sources such as those that Tim is asking for - then your arguments are just opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 10:07 AM

I've tried in verse and prose, Tim, so why don't you just tune in to some current affairs programmes.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 10:00 AM

'Record levels'. Your source for that assertion please? Could you also separate out EU migration from non EU migration, as the government of the day may be held responsible for one and not the other? Also; what is your definition of 'economic immigration', as it's not a term in common use? Economic migration, I understand. Also; what were the net figures under Labour, as the emigration figures also rose? Also; how many of the migrants from EU countries are still here? As you know, there was a huge outflow of migrant workers as soon as the current recession hit. Finally; how do you propose that UK employers replace workers in occupations where there not enough suitably qualified or willing UK applicants? Just trying to help you refine your ideas. At the moment they don't really make sense.
Tim
Ps; no, I don't want it in verse, I'd be grateful if you would stop suggesting it.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 09:51 AM

...or if you prefer it in verse - http://walkaboutsverse.webs.com/#75

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 09:47 AM

There were record levels of economic immigration under New Labour, Tim, and most of their current leaders now admit that they got it wrong.

And, as I've tried to explain several times, if economic immigration is synonymous with capitalist immigration, then questioning it is a Left- NOT Right-wing stance.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 08:13 AM

Hi WAV; perhaps you could expand on your term' pro-immigrationism' as applied to the last Government? Most of their erstwhile supporters would have described them as anti-immigration.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 06:48 AM

Our stance on many issues/bills largely boils-down to how much inequality we accept; as said, I think it's revolting here, even worse in the U.S.A., and rapidly getting worse in China, e.g.; thus, overall, Tim, I agree - but New "Foreign" Labour's pro-immigrationism was shameful.

And from my point of view, Ralphie, these "Theory Slams" give folks not on the lecture circuit a chance to have their views broadcast - and can be quite entertaining.

Here's how the Sage Gateshead descibed the event.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 06:19 AM

I'm still struggling with the concept of a "Slam"?
It sounds very painful.
It's something I occasionally do with doors when vexed.
Don't see the connection with lectures though.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 01:21 PM

If the Tory twat asks me what would make me happy, I'll just say 'resign!'.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 12:40 PM

Stop press re. our "pursuit of happiness" - the theme of the above-mentioned festival: David Cameron plans to spend a couple of million to find how happy we are. ;-)>

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 02:43 PM

"I disagree strongly with WAV's views on the rightness of the capitalist system however.....I consider that the biggest impediment to our futur happiness and wellbeing." (akenaton)...by "that" do you mean capitalism or opposition to it, such as my Slam?

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 09:55 AM

Irish culture, is not unlike Scottish,Welsh, or for that matter English culture.
I just been enjoying some very fine English "culture" from the Boat Band, and I'm a Scotsman!!

However if you want to see how "multiculturalism" is not working, come to Glasgow, or any other large city with Asian communities.
There is virtually no cultural mix, nor will there ever be, mainly because of the religious differences.
Multiculturalism is a lie and the politicians know it is lie.

I disagree strongly with WAV's views on the rightness of the capitalist system however.....I consider that the biggest impediment to our futur happiness and wellbeing.

Everyone, inc WAV, should be applauded for offering up their opinions,
especially on a "liberal" forum like this.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 08:06 AM

I'm descended from the original navvies; the men (and some women) who came to England and built the inland waterways; the navigators, or 'navvies'. I had a wonderful experience not long ago; my dad took me to see a lock on the Hudderfield Narrow Canal, and showed me a very worn and indistinct carving in the stone; done by my ancestor. I grew up on Irish song, folk tales and artistic culture...in WAVworld, this makes me an impossibility; born in England, but with an Irish culture!

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 04:58 AM

I'm descended from a long line of Irish tailors, one of whom emigrated to England to set up shop on the Castle Garth Stairs in Newcastle which was famous for tailors (Irish or otherwise) as mentioned in a famous Tyneside folksong: The quayside for sailors / the Castle Garth for tailors. No tailors there now, but you can still see the old shop fronts.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 02:45 PM

"Stu" not you, Tim - sorry, you two.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 02:35 PM

Sorry, were you talking to me? It's just that I didn't say anything...If you were, could you explain the gibberish you just wrote? It's not the voices talking to you again is it?
Tim

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 01:40 PM

I just heard on the news tonight, Tim, it will be Europe and the UN's IMF - as I say, I think it should be just the latter.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 06:48 AM

a Which pot of money should the UN use WAV?

b There are many parts of the world that would be poorer places without the skills and energies of Irish Migrant workers. And many genres of music that have benefitted from the injection of the Irish love of music song and dance.

Many of my adopted Irish family have emigrated: some have returned to Ireland several times within their working lives. They've gone where the work and their skills will take them. Ireland is not a quaint land filled with souvenir shops and leprechauns - it has supplied workers for many major constructions around the world.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 01:00 PM

I hadn't realized it til Prince William proposed and all that hype, but Prince Philly had Sir Alf stuffed after his passing and then did some other passing. It seems a "Vibra-Blow" Suction Unit was instaled in Alfie's mouth and Phillip used him for a few more years before passing him on to Prince Charles. Charley has promised him to William as a wedding present and I hear they'll all have a go at old Alf as part of the bachelor party.............


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 06:20 AM

It's the U.N. that should temporarily assist the troubled economy of Ireland; and there shouldn't be any economic/capitalist emigration/"brain-drain" from this fine republic, which I've enjoyed visiting - http://walkaboutsverse.webs.com/#12

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 01:42 PM

Sorry there.......I should have said SIR Alf. Little known fact: He was knighted not for his WC win and contributions to sport but for his long service to the monarchy. First as the Royal Hat Blocker to King George and then as the Royal Hat Blower to Prince Phillip............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 12:04 PM

And I return as I found out I had the wrong information! Actually it was Alf Ramsey who was the old queen...........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 09:18 AM

...just when we thought this thread was dead, back comes Sir Spaw!

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 08:58 AM

And all this time I read that as Sir Feit and thought it was the old queen who tried to give Alf Ramsey a blow job but Alf was a limpdick piece of shit and couldn't get it up............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 06:47 PM

'From too much liberty, my Lucio, liberty: As surfeit is the father of much fast,'

is the quote - note the caps etc.....

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:56 PM

You couldn't have written it; some Aussie bloke wrote that! You're as English as citterns and English flutes!

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:11 PM

I don't think it's a misquote, Stu, but I accept it's coming from a character in his play, rather than say a diary.

Tim: I wrote this a couple of years after repatriating - Millennium Dreams

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:21 PM

But it is a misquote WAV. And Shakespeare of course is a playwright: not really a suitable choice to support political opinion.

As Shaw said 'not bloody likely'.

Or perhaps in the bartenders cocktail guide the vodka martini should be 'shaken not stirred' because Fleming wrote it

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:53 PM

Let me get this straight then; you are completely and utterly English? This is serious; there's an Australian bloke claiming to be you on your website!

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 12:10 PM

Stu: in that quote, Shakespeare was surely presenting the idea that too much freedom is problematic, and I standby my use of it.

Dear Tim: I've never tried/ducked walking like a duck, but podiatrists in Australia (long before I repatriated) were quite surprised at how well I could walk on both my heels and my toes - largely due to good surgery work on my club foot, in Manchester, I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 09:14 AM

WAV; I'm heartbroken; you mean to say you're not an expert? In any of this? All the dogmatic pronouncements over the years have been from a basis of (at best) a dilettante? What about your qualifications? Surely somebody with four (count 'em!) technical certificates must be an expert? Gosh,I don't know what to believe in any more!
I apologise for calling you an 'Antipodean', I should have known from your broad Mancunian accent that your weren't from Down Under. I mistakenly believed that if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it probably is a duck. Can you walk like a duck, WAV?

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:35 AM

Going back to the original post, it might be a good idea to correct the Shakespeare quote:
'From too much liberty, my Lucio, liberty: As surfeit is the father of much fast,'
The abbreviated quote suggests that liberty has some relationship with surfeit. Not quite what was said.
The quote is meaningless without the 'too much'.
So what is said is that in the society under discussion the speaker believes there is too much liberty. He then compares the situation to the concept of excess (food perhaps?) will lead to a loss of appetite following the excess.
Hope that helps.

However, the comments of a fictional character in an entertainment have as much relevance to a discussion as a comedian's catchphrase, no what I mean?

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:17 AM

Tim: I'm not "Antipodean" but, rather, an English repat, actually born in Manchester the day Alf Ramsay's English team won the World Cup (just ask Spaw!); and I'd leave it for experts in their fields to flesh out the details, but, as you may well know, the leader of the U.N. itself alternates between continents.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:52 AM

Righto,so we have a UN army in WAVworld. Pray tell me, o enlightened Antipodean, who would be in charge of this army? Would that person be elected? If so, how? If you think an army can be governed by committee, I would refer you to early Polish history, where an attempt to do this resulted in invasion and occupation of Poland for hundreds of years. Final question; if we have what in effect is a World Army, to whom is it accountable? If it screws up (as all armies do) who will mete out discipline?

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:01 PM

Oh, that explains it all. So Africa keeps all its own problems (similar culture, close geographically) The Examples I quoted would still be valid though cos we all speak English.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:43 PM

"Nearest" in terms of culture as well as geography, i.e., Stu.
And above your first post, Will, I'd only mentioned "all ECONOMIC immigration".

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: olddude
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:35 PM

ya can't cattle car people, it doesn't work ... today we are in a global everything ... we work together with other countries or we fail .. that is the way of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:32 PM

Genuine asylum seekers going to their nearest safe nation would mean that none came to the UK unless some southern Irish felt it necessary to flee Eire. And New Zealand would have to accommodate asylum seekers from Australia.....

So politically unstable countries would be allowed to push dissidents over the borders to slightly less unstable countries. Would that keep all the trouble makers together?

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:54 PM

There's some mis-information in your post, Will

Is there? I've read enough of your previous posts about culturalism, and I think not. Specifics, please.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:49 PM

There's some mis-information in your post, Will, as anyone can see from the posts just above. And, as for asylum seeking in Africa or anywhere else, that too should be regulated by the U.N., with genuine asylum seekers helped to their nearest safe nation.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:29 PM

David, do you not think there are a number of serious paradoxes in your proposed views? Here's one, for example:

You favour a complete stoppage of immigration/emigration and you also favour a sort of separate but equal culturalism, where each country lives its own cultural and separate life, free from the influence of other cultures. (Presumably you also favour strict and well-policed border controls to enforce such cultural isolations, plus draconian internal measures in each country to ensure cultural purity).

You also favour a stronger UN - presumably a sort of international police who would regulate all the activities of the world.

But if you strictly isolate countries and cultures from each other, there will surely be less international understanding and less co-operation - co-operation which would be an absolute necessity to create a stronger UN. You only have to observe the current arguments and polarities within conglomerates of countries - the EEC (which you don't care for), the Middle East, etc., to realise that an extrapolation of that conflict would be almost inevitable. Remember the League of Nations - utterly useless in preventing World War II.

You mention economic immigration as being a Bad Thing - how would you then help those persecuted peoples in Africa who have to flee their own country to a neighbouring country to avoid being murdered en masse? Call in the UN? A UN Army?

In short, give "man's inhumanity to man" (Burns), there appears to be little possibility of such a regulated world as you envision ever existing.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:24 PM

...when local/national aid agencies are unable to cope without outside aid, i.e.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:08 PM

Yes, Tim, instead of this..."Most of these operations are established and implemented by the United Nations itself, with troops serving under UN operational control. In these cases, peacekeepers remain members of their respective armed forces, and do not constitute an independent "UN army", as the UN does not have such a force. In cases where direct UN involvement is not considered appropriate or feasible, the Council authorizes regional organizations such as the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), the Economic Community of West African States, or coalitions of willing countries to undertake peacekeeping or peace-enforcement tasks." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacekeeping)...I'd have a U.N. Army; and, similarly, when a natural disaster occurs in any given nation, all aid would come from the U.N., with each member nation being taxed according to its means.

Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:43 PM

While I certainly don't agree with WAV's view of the world, I find the obsessive way certain of my Mudcat friends go after him to say far more about them than him. At times you have all come very close to having your posts deleted. Strong, even heated, discussion of the content is fine, in fact in my opinion, it is desired. When you cross the line to personal attack, I am going to be watching very closely. I don't care how long you have been here, whether you are one of the "elders" or a newbie, stick to the debate, attack the ideas, and stay away from the attacking of the person.

Mick
Forum Moderator