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Lyr Req: Roisin Dubh (The Small Black Rose)

Related threads:
Lyr Add: Roisin Dubh / Dark Rosaleen (28)
Lyr Req: Roisin (from Barleycorn) (6)
Translation of Roisin dubh into english (14)
ADD: Roisin (+RA) (1)


pj 27 Aug 99 - 08:46 PM
Philippa 27 Aug 99 - 10:54 PM
pj 28 Aug 99 - 01:57 PM
Sandy Paton 28 Aug 99 - 02:46 PM
pj 30 Aug 99 - 01:29 PM
alison 23 Oct 99 - 09:53 AM
GUEST,Philippa 15 Apr 04 - 12:51 PM
Fay 30 Nov 04 - 07:02 PM
GUEST,David Ingerson 30 Nov 04 - 08:54 PM
Felipa 19 Jul 16 - 03:05 PM
Felipa 19 Jul 16 - 03:36 PM
Felipa 19 Jul 16 - 03:45 PM
Felipa 19 Jul 16 - 04:53 PM
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Subject: Roisin Dubh (The Small Black Rose)
From: pj
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 08:46 PM

I have a wonderful recording of Roisin Dubh by Cathie Ryan, but can't find lyrics anywhere. Since it's in Irish Gaelic and I'm just a beginning student, I'm not having much success transcribing it from the recording.

I checked DigiTrad and dozens of Gaelic lyric sites, even the link to Cathie's page, but no help.

Does anyone know the song? Is it traditional or new? I'd love to learn it if I can, does anyone have any advice?

hunk o' thanks

pj


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Subject: Róisín Dubh
From: Philippa
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 10:54 PM

Róisín Dubh is an old song. You will find lyrics and notes at http://www.locrian.com.au/waiting/wait_bk.html
and a translation at Irish love songs

Legend of Róisín Dubh (Dark Rosaleen) includes the following information
"Dark Rosaleen" is a Gaelic poem translated by James Clarence Morgan[sic -should be Mangan] who lived from 1803 to 1849. It is an allegory in which Red Hugh O'Donnell addresses Ireland and calls on the Pope in Rome and King Philip of Spain (late of the Armada) to come to his aid. The call to arms is well concealed in the poem to avoid 'Treasonable Utterances' for which the penalty was death.

Some people say it really is a love song

Sound trackS which I have not personally tried out: singles and Silex lyrics and explanation at http://www.locrian.com.au/waiting/wait_bk.html

Katlaughing should have a look at Cat's laugh


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Roisin Dubh (The Small Black Rose)
From: pj
Date: 28 Aug 99 - 01:57 PM

Philippa--

Thank you so much for these links! I got everything I needed and some interesting bonus information. I really appreciate your help, and am so grateful to have a place like this where information can be shared so easily!

pj


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Roisin Dubh (The Small Black Rose)
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 28 Aug 99 - 02:46 PM

Paddy Tunney recorded a lovely version of this song on his Folk-Legacy album, now available as a "custom cassette" (C-7) through the Mudcat shop. Paddy has told Dan Milner that this is his finest recording. The cassette comes with the original album's booklet of notes on the songs and their texts.

Sandy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Roisin Dubh (The Small Black Rose)
From: pj
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 01:29 PM

Thanks Sandy!

I just ordered the Paddy Tunney CD from Mudcat Store. I'll look forward to using it as I work on the song. Is this one you sing as well?

pj


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Subject: Lyr Add: ROISIN DUBH / THE SMALL BLACK ROSE
From: alison
Date: 23 Oct 99 - 09:53 AM

Thanks to Philippa, here are some tunes. Firstly the standard version from Ceolta Gael, Sean O/g & Manus O/ Baoile, Mercier Press, Cork. Secondly colm O/ Baoill's revised version of an t-Athair Lorcan O/ Muireadhaigh's, Amhra/in chuige Uladh.

MIDI file: ROISIN~2.MID

Timebase: 480

Name: Ro/is/n Dubh
TimeSig: 3/4 24 8
Tempo: 100 (600000 microsec/crotchet)
Key: C
Start
0960 1 67 079 0238 0 67 079 0002 1 64 081 0238 0 64 081 0002 1 67 092 0478 0 67 092 0002 1 60 076 0478 0 60 076 0002 1 64 096 0238 0 64 096 0002 1 67 088 0238 0 67 088 0002 1 74 079 0958 0 74 079 0002 1 72 085 0238 0 72 085 0002 1 74 094 0238 0 74 094 0002 1 76 094 0958 0 76 094 0002 1 74 088 0478 0 74 088 0002 1 72 082 0238 0 72 082 0002 1 69 087 0718 0 69 087 0002 1 67 091 0235 0 67 091 0005 1 64 090 0240 1 62 083 0001 0 64 090 0957 0 62 083 0002 1 60 083 0238 0 60 083 0002 1 62 084 0238 0 62 084 0002 1 64 090 0958 0 64 090 0002 1 62 082 0475 0 62 082 0005 1 60 086 1932 0 60 086 0948 1 72 099 0958 0 72 099 0002 1 74 094 0478 0 74 094 0002 1 76 084 0238 0 76 084 0002 1 77 090 0718 0 77 090 0002 1 76 086 0238 0 76 086 0002 1 74 088 0238 0 74 088 0002 1 72 093 0958 0 72 093 0002 1 74 085 0219 0 74 085 0021 1 76 091 0238 0 76 091 0002 1 67 072 0960 1 64 086 0001 0 67 072 0229 0 64 086 0010 1 67 088 0238 0 67 088 0002 1 74 098 0933 0 74 098 0027 1 72 088 0238 0 72 088 0002 1 74 084 0238 0 74 084 0002 1 76 086 0958 0 76 086 0002 1 74 088 0478 0 74 088 0002 1 72 093 1918 0 72 093 0962 1 72 088 0213 0 72 088 0027 1 72 080 0720 1 74 081 0007 0 72 080 0231 0 74 081 0002 1 76 088 0238 0 76 088 0002 1 77 086 0958 0 77 086 0002 1 76 091 0238 0 76 091 0002 1 74 086 0238 0 74 086 0002 1 72 092 0960 1 74 093 0012 0 72 092 0226 0 74 093 0002 1 76 096 0235 0 76 096 0005 1 67 091 0958 0 67 091 0002 1 64 080 0238 0 64 080 0002 1 67 091 0238 0 67 091 0002 1 74 092 0958 0 74 092 0002 1 72 081 0238 0 72 081 0002 1 74 078 0238 0 74 078 0002 1 76 094 0958 0 76 094 0002 1 74 085 0478 0 74 085 0002 1 72 079 1438 0 72 079 0002 1 69 093 0488 0 69 093 0472 1 67 083 0238 0 67 083 0002 1 64 076 0238 0 64 076 0002 1 67 086 0478 0 67 086 0002 1 60 074 0478 0 60 074 0002 1 64 082 0238 0 64 082 0002 1 67 080 0238 0 67 080 0002 1 74 093 0958 0 74 093 0002 1 72 086 0238 0 72 086 0002 1 74 079 0238 0 74 079 0002 1 76 090 0958 0 76 090 0002 1 74 084 0478 0 74 084 0002 1 72 076 0238 0 72 076 0002 1 69 083 0718 0 69 083 0002 1 67 084 0238 0 67 084 0002 1 64 085 0238 0 64 085 0002 1 62 085 0958 0 62 085 0002 1 60 079 0238 0 60 079 0002 1 62 081 0238 0 62 081 0002 1 64 076 0958 0 64 076 0002 1 62 079 0478 0 62 079 0002 1 60 074 1923 0 60 074
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:Ro/is/n Dubh
M:3/4
Q:1/4=100
K:C
G5E|G2C2EG|d4cd|e4d2|cA3GE|D4CD|E4D2|C6|-C6|
c6|-c4d2|ef3ed|c4de|G4EG|d4cd|e4d2|c6|-c6|
c6|-cc3de|f4ed|c4de|G4EG|d4cd|e4d2|c6|A4GE|
G2C2EG|d4cd|e4d2|cA3GE|D4CD|E4D2|C6|-C6||

MIDI file: MO_ROI~1.MID

Timebase: 480

Name: Mo Ro/isi/n Dubh
TimeSig: 3/4 24 8
Tempo: 100 (600000 microsec/crotchet)
Key: F
Start
0960 1 60 084 0118 0 60 084 0002 1 62 093 0118 0 62 093 0002 1 64 088 0238 0 64 088 0002 1 65 087 0478 0 65 087 0002 1 65 096 0478 0 65 096 0002 1 67 094 0224 0 67 094 0016 1 64 094 0218 0 64 094 0022 1 60 086 0478 0 60 086 0002 1 60 092 0478 0 60 092 0002 1 65 087 0238 0 65 087 0002 1 67 087 0238 0 67 087 0002 1 69 091 0958 0 69 091 0002 1 67 088 0478 0 67 088 0002 1 65 080 0958 0 65 080 0002 1 64 088 0238 0 64 088 0002 1 65 085 0238 0 65 085 0002 1 67 093 0478 0 67 093 0002 1 67 091 0478 0 67 091 0002 1 70 082 0238 0 70 082 0002 1 69 091 0238 0 69 091 0002 1 67 102 0478 0 67 102 0002 1 64 088 0478 0 64 088 0002 1 60 080 0478 0 60 080 0002 1 70 097 0958 0 70 097 0002 1 69 083 0478 0 69 083 0002 1 67 084 0958 0 67 084 0002 1 60 079 0118 0 60 079 0002 1 62 091 0118 0 62 091 0002 1 64 094 0238 0 64 094 0002 1 65 082 0478 0 65 082 0002 1 65 086 0478 0 65 086 0002 1 67 081 0238 0 67 081 0002 1 64 087 0238 0 64 087 0002 1 60 085 0478 0 60 085 0002 1 60 096 0480 1 65 092 0018 0 60 096 0220 0 65 092 0002 1 67 088 0213 0 67 088 0027 1 69 091 0958 0 69 091 0002 1 67 096 0478 0 67 096 0002 1 65 088 0958 0 65 088 0002 1 69 088 0238 0 69 088 0002 1 70 082 0238 0 70 082 0002 1 72 094 0478 0 72 094 0002 1 76 086 0478 0 76 086 0002 1 74 086 0235 0 74 086 0005 1 74 080 0223 0 74 080 0017 1 72 083 0478 0 72 083 0002 1 69 079 0478 0 69 079 0002 1 67 084 0478 0 67 084 0002 1 65 081 0958 0 65 081 0002 1 64 082 0478 0 64 082 0002 1 65 077 0958 0 65 077
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:Mo Ro/isi/n Dubh
M:3/4
Q:1/4=100
K:F
C9/2D/2E|F2F2GE|C2C2FG|A4G2|F4EF|G2G2BA|G2E2C2|
B4A2|G4C/2D/2E|F2F2GE|C2C2FG|A4G2|F4AB|c2e2dd|
c2A2G2|F4E2|F6||

If you'd rather hear the tune without the hassle of translating try new MIDI site

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Roisin Dubh (The Small Black Rose)
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 12:51 PM

in some versions at least, it seems much more a love song, forbidden love against holy orders


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Roisin Dubh (The Small Black Rose)
From: Fay
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 07:02 PM

Reviving this thread to ask for more facts about the history of this song.

I have gathered so far from other threads that:

"Dark Rosalean" based on a translation by Samuel Ferguson from a version recorded from Handiman. Any dates for these people?

Ferguson didn't consider it to be political - just a love song. So was it political before or after the translation? I'm presuming before but would like confirmation/arguements...

Composed to celebrate Ireland when oppressed, but couldn't use Irish Language, or the concept of an Ireland so substituted women's characters. If this is so, why compose in Irish if not allowed? if going to break the rules and do it in Irish, why not just say Ireland in the song?

There is also reference to the fact that the version in Irish usually has fewer verses than the English language ones. Can anyone tell me which are the English language verses which corrspond to the Galic, and which have been added (and where/who from if you're really up on this stuff) My Irish isn't too hot.


Well, there are a few pickles for you to chew on for a bit. What'd'y'all recon?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Roisin Dubh (The Small Black Rose)
From: GUEST,David Ingerson
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 08:54 PM

Good questions.

I'm no expert (and I'll be glad to be corrected) but my impression is that the prohibition against the language was on the books for significantly less time that the treasonable utterances statutes.

There are also certainly artistic and poetic reasons--not just political--for refering to Ireland as a little black rose.

My two cents.

David


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Roisin Dubh (The Small Black Rose)
From: Felipa
Date: 19 Jul 16 - 03:05 PM

Brian O Domhnaill says he learned a standard school version of Róisín Dubh before he learned there was a local version in his native Donegal.

'Gus a Róise ná bíodh brón ort fár éirigh duit
Tá na bráithre ag teacht thar sáile is iad triall thar muir
Tiocfaidh do phárdún ón Phápa is ón Róimh anoir
Is ní sparálfar fíon Spáinneach ar mo Róisín Dubh.

'Gus a Róise mhín mhodhmhair 's na gciabhfholt dubh
Tar ag triall chun mo thórraimh más áil leat é
Beidh mo chonair-se tógáilte i lár an lae
Is gurb í do phóg-sa Dé Domhnaigh a bhásaigh mé.

Dá bhfeicfeá-sa Róise Dé Domhnaigh is í ag éirí amach
Crios Phroinsias uirthi timpeall fá lár a coirp
Tháinig an t-am uirthi ar shantaigh sí an t-ógfhear deas
Is mura dtéigh bang uirthi millfidh sí an t-ord ar fad.

'Gus a Róise, dá mba liom thú nárbh aoibhinn duit
Is deas a chealgfainn do leanbhán dá mbeadh sé ag goil
Is in Albain dá gcasfaí sinn, inné nó inniu
Scéal cinnte, a ghrá, go bpillfeadh muid araon gan guth.

Nach aerach a théid sí chun aonaigh ina cóta cuilt
Is gan aici maoin shaolta nó bólacht cnoc
Ná an aon gine déag a bhí faoin a cófra glais
Nach siúd an féirín lenar bhréagnaigh mé mo Róisín Dubh.

Orú mhearaigh tú mé, a bhradaigh, is nár ba fearrde duit
Is go bhfuil m'anam istigh i ngean ort 's chan inné nó inniu
Orú d'fhág tú lag anbhann mé i ngré is i ncruth
Ná feall orm gus mé i ngean ort , a Róisín Dubh.

Is tá réalt ins na spéirthí in imeall an cheo
Is cha raibh á leithéid i nGleann Éidhinigh 'gus ní bheidh go deo
Gaoth na hÉirne go dtugfhas léim leí cé gur mhór an sruth
Is mar gha gréine í ar mhalaidh shléibhe a bhí mo Róisín Dubh.

Beidh an Éirne ina tuille tréana is réabfar na cnoic
'S beidh an fharraige ina tonnaí dearga is doirtfear fuil
Beidh gach gleann sléibhe ar fud Éirinn is na móinte ar crith
Lá éigin sula n-éagfaidh mo Róisín Dubh.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Roisin Dubh (The Small Black Rose)
From: Felipa
Date: 19 Jul 16 - 03:36 PM

some of the links posted in this thrad in 1999 don't work now.
So here is a set of lyrics from http://www.irishpage.com/songs/roisdubh.htm

the English translation here is credited to Pádraig Pearse and the Irish to Eoghan Rua(dh) Mac an Bhaird (http://www.ainm.ie/Bio.aspx?ID=1328 lived circa 1570-1630 bio. makes no reference to Róisín Dubh). Pearse's English rendition is a fair translation of the Irish lyrics given below:

Róisín Dubh

A Róisín ná bíodh brón ort fár éirigh dhuit-
tá na bráithre ag dul ar sáile is iad ag triall ar muir,
tiocfaigh do phardún óa bPápa is ón Róimh anoir
is ní spáráilfear fíon Spáinneach ar mo Róisín Dubh.

Is fada an réim a lig mé léi ó inné do dtí inniu,
trasna sléibhte go ndeachas léi is mo sheólta ar muir;
An éirne scoithe sí de léim í cé gur mór é a sruth;
is mar cheól téad ar gach taobh di a bhíonn mo Róisín Dubh.

Mharaigh tú mé, a bhradóg, is nár ba fearrde dhuit,
's go bhfuil m'anam istigh i ngean ort is ní inné ná inniu.
D'fhág tú lag anbhann mé i ngné is i gcruth;
ná feall orm is mé i gnean ort, a Róisín Dubh.

Shiúlfainn féin an drúcht leat is fásaigh goirt
mar shúil go bhfaighinn rún uait nó páirt ded thoil;
a chraoibhín chumhra, gheallais damhsa go raibh grá agat dom,
is gurb í plúrscoth na Mumhan í mo Róisín Dubh.

Dá mbeadh seisreach agam threabhfainn in aghaidh na gcnoc
is dhéanfainn soiscéal i lár an Aifrinn do mo Róisín Dubh;
bhéarainn póg don chailín óg a bhéarfadh a hóighe dhom
is dhéanfainn cleas an leasa le mo Róisín Dubh.

Beidh an Éirne 'na tuilte tréana is réabfar cnoic,
beidh an fharraige 'na tonnta dearga is an spéir 'na fuil,
beidh gach gleann sléibhe ar fud Eireann is móinte ar crith,
lá éigin sula n-éagfaidh mo Róisín Dubh.

TRANSLATION

Little Rose, be not sad for all that hath behapped thee:
The friars are coming across the sea, they march on the main.
From the Pope shall come thy pardon, and from Rome, from the East-
And stint not Spanish wine to my Little Dark Rose.

Long the journey that I made with her from yesterday till today,
Over mountains did I go with her, under the sails upon the sea,
The Erne I passed by leaping, though wide the flood,
And there was string music on each side of me and my Little Dark Rose!

Had I a yoke of horses I would plough against the hills,
In middle-Mass I'd make a gospel of my Little Dark Rose,
I'd give a kiss to the young girl that would give her mouth to me,
And behind the liss would lie embracing my Little Dark Rose!

Thou hast slain me, O my bride*, and may it serve thee no whit,
For the soul within me loveth thee, not since yesterday nor today,
Thou has left me weak and broken in mien and in shape,
Betray me not who love thee, my Little Dark Rose!
[*dictionary definition of bradóg = a roguish woman]

I would walk the dew with thee and the meadowy wastes,
In hope of getting love from thee, or part of my will,
Frangrant branch, thou didst promise me that thou hadst for me love-
And sure the flower of all Munster is Little Dark Rose!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Roisin Dubh (The Small Black Rose)
From: Felipa
Date: 19 Jul 16 - 03:45 PM

re Keberoxu's query at http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=158654 re Eoghan Ruadh, he was the poet associated with the O'Donnell clan. (see http://www.culturenorthernireland.org/features/heritage/development-irish-language-5 ) but I don't know the basis for attributing these verses to him.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Roisin Dubh (The Small Black Rose)
From: Felipa
Date: 19 Jul 16 - 04:53 PM

Máiréad Ní Dhomhnaill sings the same or similar version of Róisín Dubh as Brian O Domhnaill. I like the tune they have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVLFYneSd2M

the better known tune for Róisín Dubh is sung here by the renowned Caitlín Maude and next up after she sings is an uileann piper playing the air


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