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How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?

Tim Leaning 08 Nov 10 - 02:10 PM
The Sandman 08 Nov 10 - 02:11 PM
Tim Leaning 08 Nov 10 - 02:18 PM
Arthur_itus 08 Nov 10 - 02:32 PM
GUEST 08 Nov 10 - 02:53 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 08 Nov 10 - 02:58 PM
Arthur_itus 08 Nov 10 - 03:02 PM
Arthur_itus 08 Nov 10 - 03:04 PM
stallion 08 Nov 10 - 03:05 PM
Tim Leaning 08 Nov 10 - 03:12 PM
Arthur_itus 08 Nov 10 - 03:17 PM
Arthur_itus 08 Nov 10 - 03:50 PM
Tim Leaning 08 Nov 10 - 04:04 PM
Arthur_itus 08 Nov 10 - 04:08 PM
Tim Leaning 08 Nov 10 - 04:11 PM
Arthur_itus 08 Nov 10 - 04:13 PM
Paul Davenport 09 Nov 10 - 04:45 AM
Arthur_itus 09 Nov 10 - 05:28 AM
Howard Jones 09 Nov 10 - 05:30 AM
Paul Davenport 09 Nov 10 - 08:32 AM
Arthur_itus 09 Nov 10 - 08:58 AM
Howard Jones 09 Nov 10 - 09:55 AM
Arthur_itus 09 Nov 10 - 10:10 AM
Bounty Hound 09 Nov 10 - 12:52 PM
Paul Davenport 09 Nov 10 - 12:54 PM
Arthur_itus 09 Nov 10 - 01:33 PM
The Sandman 09 Nov 10 - 01:40 PM
Arthur_itus 09 Nov 10 - 02:11 PM
Tim Leaning 09 Nov 10 - 02:29 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 09 Nov 10 - 02:36 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 09 Nov 10 - 02:37 PM
The Sandman 09 Nov 10 - 02:47 PM
Arthur_itus 09 Nov 10 - 03:02 PM
GUEST 09 Nov 10 - 03:13 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 09 Nov 10 - 03:17 PM
Arthur_itus 09 Nov 10 - 03:22 PM
SPB-Cooperator 09 Nov 10 - 03:23 PM
Arthur_itus 09 Nov 10 - 03:31 PM
Tim Leaning 09 Nov 10 - 03:44 PM
Tim Leaning 09 Nov 10 - 03:47 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 09 Nov 10 - 03:55 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 09 Nov 10 - 04:02 PM
Arthur_itus 09 Nov 10 - 04:19 PM
Arthur_itus 09 Nov 10 - 04:24 PM
Jack Campin 09 Nov 10 - 04:56 PM
Arkie 09 Nov 10 - 05:03 PM
Ralphie 09 Nov 10 - 05:16 PM
Tim Leaning 09 Nov 10 - 05:39 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 09 Nov 10 - 05:56 PM
The Sandman 09 Nov 10 - 06:32 PM
Tim Leaning 10 Nov 10 - 12:56 AM
Bounty Hound 10 Nov 10 - 06:15 AM
stallion 10 Nov 10 - 07:18 AM
Arthur_itus 10 Nov 10 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,Desi C 10 Nov 10 - 07:51 AM
open mike 10 Nov 10 - 01:33 PM
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Subject: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 02:10 PM

Is there a "secret list"
Available only to event organizers that sorts out exactly who is the headliner and who the support at gigs and clubs?
SO rt of who sits next to the arch deacon or under the Countess, but for dulcimer playing ear fiddling folkie types?


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 02:11 PM

can I sit under the Cuntess please.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 02:18 PM

Tsk how Crude could you stop that please,, certainly you highness which way did it go...


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 02:32 PM

It's easy Tim
You spend many hours checking out every artist and go and see them live and you decide if you like them.

The next thing is you decide if your audience will like them (that assumes you have taken the time to get to know your audience)

The next part is the hardest (not sexually of course). You make decisions and decide who you are going to book. The worst part of this is your best friend singers get insulted and they won't talk to you anymore.

You ignore them and book what will bring your audience in.

Does that help. You need a thick skin like a dino sore arse. If not, you will never be an organiser.

Where is that f****** dinosore


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 02:53 PM

Pretty accurate Arthur -know your audience. There are artistes I love but who are not right for our club and reluctantly I have to give them a miss. The best thing is to get out and listen to as many people as you can live-don't rely on demos or youtube because it will never show you how an artiste reacts to an audience and visa versa.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 02:58 PM

Tim,

Don't believe a word Arthur says..... of course there is a secret list of who is allowed to be a headliner, support act etc.

Didn't you know that you have join the secret lodge of organisers (FARTS: Festival, Agent, & oRganisers Taste Society ) before you are allowed to book anyone? This list is then shared with you.

Part of the initiation is that you have to be able to grade an act just from photographs and what the music press says about them, why would you want to listen to them first?

The other parts of the initiation are just too terrible to share......

This is all overseen by a government quango (offkey).... upset them at your peril!


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 03:02 PM

You amd me guest have probably the same approach.

I have been known to book top performers only to find that a lot of the local audience didn't like them. The rest were anoraks for that artist and would travel miles to see them.

The result was next event, the audience dropped.

Those artists I booked, i loved them, but they were not the right choice for the venue.

You learn over time. However the thick skin is very important as is making decisions.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 03:04 PM

That is a load of b****** Guest banjiman


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: stallion
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 03:05 PM

Oh, that's how it works. May I enquire as to how one impresses a Fart, is it the same way one expresses ones self?


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 03:12 PM

So if there are two well known acts on one evening how do you sort out who is the headliner?


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 03:17 PM

You don't. You give them equal time. That is based on your opinion of course. Others who are fans of one of them, will think you are wrong, but that's where the thick skin comes in. Only time will tell if you are good at getting it right.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 03:50 PM

Incidentally Tim, you have to decide who would be better for being on first and who would be better for finishing. There is a skill in both, but it doesn't mean any one of them is better than the other and you need to make that clear.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 04:04 PM

Hmmm skin like a rhino eh?
DO they sometime have contractual stuff about this then?
I have no plans to be emprosarying at all BTW It just interests me.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 04:08 PM

Good then hopefully you will store that for maybe a future time when you might want to be an organiser.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 04:11 PM

Lol I will try mate its a bloody mine field
tiptoe through the egos


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 04:13 PM

Argos, they won't help you!


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 04:45 AM

What interests me, both as an artist and as a punter is this. Given that when certain big festivals folded, they were instantly revived by the punters themselves, why is it that many organisers imagine that booking 'big names' will draw people into the festival?
The realty of this type of thinking is that a huge chunk of the available finding in this most alternative of alternative music is thrown at a 'big name' who do nothing but turn up for a sound-check, do the gig and then disappear. No playing in sessions, singing in the beer tent, or running workshops in fact no real contribution to the soul of the festival. Meanwhile 'small name' acts are performing for nothing or expenses and dance teams work like beasts of burden, at times having to actually pay for tickets or act as stewards because the budget won't stretch to paying them or giving them a ticket.
And who decides who's a big name? The agents and the people in the media. I have watched a lot of top billed acts this year and frankly most of them could have done with serving a bit more time in the singaround and the session. But the agents says they are the best young act ever to hit the scene and, to paraphrase Mark Antony, 'the agent is an honest man'.
Paul


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 05:28 AM

"why is it that many organisers imagine that booking 'big names' will draw people into the festival?"

Because they do.

There is a big difference in going to a Festival to see big artists and going to a festival just to go to the singarounds.

There are many people who don't want to pay to see the artists, so they hang around in the sigarounds.

Here is a good example of a very good festival that provides both and yes people do go becuase of the big names, but they also go becuase it is well run.

http://www.southwellfolkfestival.org.uk/


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 05:30 AM

I agree with Paul. For me, the guest list is not a major deciding factor when choosing which festivals to go to. This is because I know that in practice there's a good chance I won't get around to seeing many of them, either because I'm doing something else or the venue is too crowded. I also know that most of them will only be there for a short time. The bigger the festival, the less likely it is I'll get to see many of the guests.

The deciding factor for me is the all-round atmosphere, and opportunities for sessions. I know from experience, or from friends' recommendations, which festivals are likely to suit me. And these days I'm inclining more and more to the small, intimate low-key festivals.

Folk clubs, where you are going to see a single artist, are a different matter. However, at clubs where I trusted the organiser's judgement I would usually go even if I hadn't previously heard the guest performer (or even heard of them, in some cases).


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 08:32 AM

Thanks Howard, I already know that, apart from festivals I'm booked at, I am going to certain festivals next year because that's what I do. Who's booked? Who cares?


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 08:58 AM

So you are the peripheral, who try to get everything for now't then. The hangers on of the folk festivals.

Or am I misjudging you.

You may well support the festival and by your ticket and then go to the singarounds. If so, I tilt my hat to you.

Festivals are expensive to run these days (I am talking about the bigger ones) and if they are going to survive, they need every one that goes along to buy the tickets, not try and get a free ride.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 09:55 AM

No, if I go to a festival I buy a ticket. I go to those festivals where I think I'll get my money's worth and have an enjoyable experience - which for me includes playing as well as listening to music. Who's on the guest list is not a major deciding factor in choosing those festivals, although the nature of the guests booked may give clues to the nature of the festival and whether I'll enjoy it.

That's not to say that I don't consider important that a festival has a good guest list, just that I don't base my decisions on which individual performers will be appearing. I decide based on other factors, then if someone I'd like to see is on the guest list I'll try to get along to their performance.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 10:10 AM

That's very positive Howard and you are a very good example of a true Folkie.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 12:52 PM

Banjiman, would 'FARTS' be a thinly veiled dig at that venerable body the AFO?

And Paul, you are right, the 'best young act ever to hit the scene' does seem to be what festival organisers want these days. We do in the folk world now seem to be falling into the same media trap and hype as 'pop' music, where we are told what we will like (good example, Bellowhead)

There is a huge amount of new and undiscovered talent out there with performers who left their teens behind a long time ago. Fortunatly there are still some brave festival organisers who will book new acts from the baby boomer generation.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 12:54 PM

Err? Arthur, you've completely misunderstood. I pay the full going rate at festivals I attend. You're right of course, the singarounds and the sessions are massively important parts of festivals hence my annoyance (above) with booked artists who don't contribute to them. In fact, I am more likely to be found in a singaround when I am booked than when I'm not. I feel I owe it to the festival to contribute. Very few 'top grade' artists are willing to do this (maybe that's why I'm not 'top grade') Generally, when I'm a punter, I pay for the pleasure of being there and meeting friends. My full ticket usually gives me 'access all areas' which makes it easier to dip in and out to things I fancy.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 01:33 PM

Paul, the same applies to you as Howard, you are a very good example of a true Folkie.

Bounty Hound, festival organisers in general are only going to book artists that will pull the crowds in.
That's life.

As I have said before, there are lots of performers who think they deserve to be in the Festival ring, but do not seem to realise that they are not crowd pullers and possibly are not good enough, but there is no telling them.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 01:40 PM

It is agents who grade artists, by hyping them up, and charging over inflated prices, organisers then feel obliged to take part in this charade, which does not necessarily have anything to do with talent , but can on occasions have more to do with spin.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 02:11 PM

I think you will find that most organisers study their product GSS.

They know who they want to book and they go out and buy those acts in.

To suggest any different, is being a bit rude about the passion and intelligence of the organiser.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 02:29 PM

Some did be telling me of how the price of a certain duo of youngsters shot up overnight mysteriously. From " That's real nice of you to let us come and olay there we really need the exposure oh and thanks for the money"
To "Yer well we are a bit busy that day .We could do you half and hour for £400 but its not really the sort of venue we are looking for".

The almost overnight difference was getting mentioned in some Radio two
Awards of some some kind.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 02:36 PM

"Banjiman, would 'FARTS' be a thinly veiled dig at that venerable body the AFO?"

Absolutely not, any similarity to people (or persons) living or dead is purely coincedental.... probably.

My post was purely tongue in cheek (or b****** as Arthur itus so delicately put it), however, there is an element of truth around the points made by Paul Davenport, GSS and yourself Mr Hounds.

There do seem to be a group of artists who are on the Festival (and other good bookings) merry-go-round. Often this is based on them being extremely good...... though I would contend that there are many excellent acts who don't seem to get the same backing from the "industry". Sometimes puzzling to know why. There are also some "headliners" that are pure hype.

There is also undoubtedly a reality that some acts do pull in the punters far more than others do, again I often scratch my head to know why.

I can think of one act that seems to have more bookings (at Folk Clubs & festivals) than he/she knows what to do with who appears to me (and I have seen him/ her) to basically do acoustic covers.... done very well but I do struggle to see the folk connection (and I'm no purist).

Clubs and festivals do need the artists that "pull" though, it gets very depressing to put a lot of effort into organising and promoting a night and then only a dozen people turn up.

In my experience audiences in the folk world are very conservative and really only turn out for acts they have seen before or those who have made it into the music press or onto mainstream radio (or Mike Harding at least)..... which leaves a large group of very talented, entertaining acts out in the cold.

Very frustrating as an organiser to know how to change this situation.

Economic realities dictate that you have to major on acts that will put bums on seats......though I try not to do this exclusively, but when I do take chances on lesser known but brilliant (IMHO) acts, the club invariably loses money.

So, Tim, grading is done on many levels, but "pulling power" is one of the major factors.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 02:37 PM

Tim, I did write my post before I saw yours!


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 02:47 PM

arthur itis, i did not suggest that organisers did not study their products.
those that are in it purely for commercial gain and even those that are in it just to cover their expenses[ and thats a small majority]have to be aware of bums on seats, but they are still victims of spin promotion hype [call it what you will] sometimes it pays off, occasionally it doesnt[Simon Boak] and artists and audience get ripped off
passion doesnt come in to that equation.
imo the festivals that are to be trusted are those that have been running a long time under the same management, and who manage to cater for all tastes.
chippenham saltburn tenterden warwick to name but a few.
Those that have to be treated with caution are those like the one simon boak was involved in did all the punters get their money back?that is disgraceful.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 03:02 PM

Simon Boak has nothing to do with this thread GSS. I can't say what I think of him, as I may get sued. All I can say, is that he brings shame to the folk world.

Banjiman
A good organiser will book acts and if that organiser is good enough, they will encourage their audience to keep on coming back. If not, the audience stays away.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 03:13 PM

MMMMMMMMMMM trouble is, and should be probably linked with the thread "should standards be raised" thread. I had a massive row with a performer at a club because I had the temerity to suggest he/she didn't seem to be enjoying the gig, ( was rubbish!) I couldn't see for the life of me why i should pay to see something that was worse than the club residents and musicians at the local sessions, now that may be cos locally there seems to be more good uns than dross about at the moment. Anyway, organising folk events is a thankless task and not everyone will be pleased with the choices, so bums on seats come first I'm afraid.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 03:17 PM

Arthur,

I'm clearly not a good organiser then....... I've tried the theory of booking big names and getting in a good crowd (which we do get for big names)and encouraging them to come back..... but I just can't seem to get people out for lesser known acts, however good they are and however positive the feedback from those who do make the effort.... and believe me, I've tried.

Maybe I should just give up!


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 03:22 PM

Guest, you will get blasted by Joe. Guest posting is not allowed or is frowned on.

Just a comment.

Maybe the performer was not impressed with the organiser and felt out of place at your venue. So maybe the performer was unhappy with you. Look after your performer and your performer will look after you.

Just a thought. There are 2 sides to the argument. is the performer allowed to feedback on your comments, which seems fair to me.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 03:23 PM

When I was involved in running folk clubs years back, I tried to balance bookings between occasional 'name' artistes, local talent and blasts from the past, i.e. artistes who haven't been seen in London for years.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 03:31 PM

Banjiman
If you say that if you book big names and get a good crowd, but not for the lesser known artists, then stick to the big names. Put the lesser known artists on as support.

You have to be tough, because the audience votes with it's feet.

Your freinds and local artists need to be the support. People want to see performers who you do not see very often, in your area, but are crowd pullers.

That is the way at the moment. With the way the economy is at the moment, audiences are more discerning.

You work hard at what you do Banjiman and don't give up, but maybe this is the time to move up a level.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 03:44 PM

Yes Paul think we cross posted :-)


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 03:47 PM

So Paul,Arthur and other learned types.
Have you ever witnessed an artiste stand off where a couple at eh same event are at odds over who is the more entitled to top billing?


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 03:55 PM

Arthur,

The frustrating thing is that it is not about audiences being "discerning" (in terms of talent or entertainment) it's just about familiarity ..... which is a little disheartening.

Oh, and it's not my "friends" or "local artists" who always struggle .... it's just as likely to be touring (even international) artists..... unless they're "known" locally.

Still we've got plenty coming in this weekend, so that should be fun!


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 04:02 PM

"Have you ever witnessed an artiste stand off where a couple at eh same event are at odds over who is the more entitled to top billing?"

No Tim, in my experience artists who reach the level where they might have "top billing" are usually too savvy to fall out about things like that.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 04:19 PM

You are right Banjiman and normally the organiser will have sorted that out before the event.

Very often, you get 2 very good performers who are equal billing. A good organiser will work out who would be best opening and who would be best closing based on the audience.

For example, I would put a solo performer on before a band (assuming they were equal)

So Tim in your scenario, the organiser hasn't done their job.

Sometimes you may have 4 performers of equal standing. It's then important to mix the 4 to give variety to teh audience.

Amongst those 4, you can normally work out who would be best to open the evening and work the audience, followed by somebody entirely different in style, etc etc.

If you can't work it out, then you draw for the order.

Just because somebody goes on first does not mean that they are not good. On the contrary. They are probably doing the job for the organiser that works best.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 04:24 PM

Also Tim, if performers do that, you don't book them again. Simple.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 04:56 PM

I am not a folk club organizer but I do know something about grading eggs, which must be a similar problem.

The heavier they are the higher the grade. (This probably explains why Hamish Imlach ever had a career).

And you have to check for freshness. Drop them in a sufficiently large volume of water. If they float, they're stale.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arkie
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 05:03 PM

1.Don't assume that every member of an audience is there for the same reason.
a. Some come to hear someone new
b. Some come to hear an old favorite
c. Some come to listen
d. Some come for social contact.
e. In a festival situation some come to pick
f. etc.

2. If you can afford two or three acts that adds to the costs but helps increase the attendance.

3. Keep up with the names of performers who travel and listen to recordings or radio that plays the people you might have an interest in.

4. Do not book based on recordings or promo material. That helps you get to know who people are.

5. Talk to your potential or regular audience; talk to people who go to multiple venues. Don't rely on just one opinion. You will soon learn whose opinions are most reliable.

6. Try not to put two or three egotists on the same program.

7. Learn from your mistakes & learn from the good decisions as well.

8. Do your homework and think of your audience. As has been said in several ways, don't use your position to load shows with people you want to hear or know you will like unless you are certain they will appeal to others and do not allow the fact that though someone appeals to you personally make you think they will have universal appeal.

9-10. Develop a tough hide.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Ralphie
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 05:16 PM

I'm just glad I've virtually given up live performances. Never earned any money anyway. I just play with friends now.
Far simpler.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 05:39 PM

So no egos in the film club circuit Paul?

I know there is with other styles.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 05:56 PM

Of course there are egos.

But I haven't seen them manifest themselves in the way you suggest.

It is really interesting to talk to the soundman and the person behind the bar at a gig though. It's from them you usually find out about the person behind the name.

I don't re-book anyone who is rude to any of the club helpers.

I'll have to tell you the story of one performer who was as nice as pie to me but very rude to the "woman in the kitchen" at one of our weekends..... who as it happened was Wendy!

Interestingly, it's not those at the top of the bill who we have had "attitude" from.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 06:32 PM

Ralphie has a cd for sale available from his website, the cd is called ELOISE.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 12:56 AM

Ooops! Bet the woman in the kitchen was chuffed.
I had to introduce a guy who I hadn't previously heard so as with others asked him if there was anything he would like mentioned meaning cds upcoming stuff etc.
Got rather a snotty answer.
He wasn't very good either.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 06:15 AM

Just to respond to Arthur's post above,

'As I have said before, there are lots of performers who think they deserve to be in the Festival ring, but do not seem to realise that they are not crowd pullers and possibly are not good enough, but there is no telling them'

The other side of the coin is that there are lots of performers who are definately good enough and do deserve to be in the festival ring. I once heard it said, by a well known performer on the festival circuit, 'you know you are at a festival when half the audience are better musicians than you' (I can certainly relate to that!)

To give a personal example, The Bounty Hounds were privilaged to play some of the smaller festivals this year, two of which re-booked us for 2011 on the spot, so we must be doing something right, but can we get interest from the larger festivals....... Is that because, as a relitively new act, we are middle aged and not 'the best young act ever to hit the scene'

I guess what I am saying is that unless organisers are brave enough to book acts who are not 'names' or 'the best young act...' there is all this talent going unappreciated and never getting the opportunity to prove themselves to be the 'crowd pullers' and it is of course the festival goers themselves who miss out on discovering new acts.

Incidentally, great evening at St Neots Folk Club last night with 'the woman in the kitchen' AKA Mrs Banjiman, AKA Wendy Arrowsmith, now there is one lady who deserves to be totally immersed in the festival circuit!

John


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: stallion
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 07:18 AM

guest was me with no cookie for some reason. The poor attandances for unknown artists is not uncommon, in fact i think it is the Norm. I think that it has always been thus, there is stiff competition now from a multitude of events across all the entertainment mediums. Way past when, it was a regular evening out and the rough was taken with the smooth, today there are more choices for a night out and I don't think it is a shortage of money which is responsible, most charges on the door for unknowns are four or five quid and that is worth a punt on, I think it's a shortage of time, people are being more selective where and when they use it. Toughie i know, here the club nights with no paid guests are by far the best attended at the moment and I know of two clubs that are now singarounds, never having paid guests. I know the folk concert series at the National Centre for Early Music has been losing money for the first year ever, now that is worrying cos they are the top acts not pulling people in, that could be finacial at around £20 a ticket + travelling exes. It is just hard graft for bugger all for a long time or hit it lucky with a million pound recording contract. I remember the first time someone offered me money to perform I thought it was a wind up, like paying me to keep quiet!


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 07:46 AM

Hi John, just had a quick listen to Bounty Hound.

IMHO, you are doing the right thing with the small festivals. If enough people like what you do, it shouldn't be too difficult to slowly get into bigger festivals.

Some of the bigger festivals tend to have a least 2 stages for musicians. Try and get in to the second stage and again, if people like you, the organsiser will certainly pick up on it.

However, if you are not well known, you are going to find it difficult to get on the main stage. In this day and age the organiser can't afford to put unknown bands on main stage.


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 07:51 AM

At our club I have a carefully worked out rating syatem on a scale of one star up to ka max 6 stars. A one star artist needs to bring a dxonation for the raffle, 2 stars needs a dontion plus buy at least one extra ticket. 3 stars needs to buy the host a half, 4 stars a pint or a single whisky, 5 stars needs to be a decent looking female and for 6 stars, not too many long songs and sleep with me afterwards.

But it is a case really of grade them at your peril and be deemed to have 'favourites' obviously one will enjoy some more than others but a good host will try to spread the load of spots from the graveyard first up spot to the late spots which most prefer. I'vev been to many clubs where it's obvious the save the 'best' till last, but this often means a couple of hours of early dross and losing the will to live. And besides those who might be your favourites many be others boredom treshold! I try to mix up the performers to provie a balanced nght, only rules to stick by are female artists sadly are still few in numnber so if you get two, do not put them one after the other, they tell me they hate that, eperate duos a bit too. Tell everybod they are wonderful even if they aint and try in vain to keep your sanity

The Circle Folk Club
Uk Black Country
Every Wed
info - crc778@aol.com


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Subject: RE: How do organisers 'Grade ' the artists?
From: open mike
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 01:33 PM

how about an applause-o-meter?
http://www.theapplausemeter.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPuPyslm8xg
(SEVERAL OTHERS LINKED FROM THAT YOU TUBE CLIP)


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