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BS: Students march against tuition fees UK

gnu 14 Dec 10 - 05:09 PM
Bonzo3legs 14 Dec 10 - 04:16 PM
gnu 14 Dec 10 - 02:48 PM
Jim Carroll 17 Nov 10 - 09:06 AM
MGM·Lion 17 Nov 10 - 06:00 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Nov 10 - 02:51 AM
akenaton 16 Nov 10 - 06:43 PM
andrew e 16 Nov 10 - 06:34 PM
Richard Bridge 16 Nov 10 - 05:31 PM
akenaton 16 Nov 10 - 04:53 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Nov 10 - 04:01 PM
Richard Bridge 16 Nov 10 - 03:28 PM
MGM·Lion 16 Nov 10 - 02:09 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Nov 10 - 01:32 PM
MGM·Lion 16 Nov 10 - 12:50 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Nov 10 - 11:27 AM
Leadfingers 16 Nov 10 - 09:39 AM
Richard Bridge 16 Nov 10 - 09:38 AM
Bonzo3legs 16 Nov 10 - 09:14 AM
Arthur_itus 16 Nov 10 - 09:07 AM
MGM·Lion 16 Nov 10 - 08:40 AM
bubblyrat 16 Nov 10 - 08:35 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Nov 10 - 08:26 AM
Arthur_itus 16 Nov 10 - 04:54 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Nov 10 - 04:03 PM
andrew e 14 Nov 10 - 05:39 PM
Bonzo3legs 14 Nov 10 - 10:42 AM
akenaton 14 Nov 10 - 09:16 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Nov 10 - 07:40 PM
akenaton 13 Nov 10 - 07:00 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Nov 10 - 06:09 PM
Big Phil 13 Nov 10 - 05:41 PM
Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) 13 Nov 10 - 02:45 PM
paula t 13 Nov 10 - 12:43 PM
GUEST,Silas 13 Nov 10 - 05:39 AM
akenaton 13 Nov 10 - 03:32 AM
GUEST,Mary 13 Nov 10 - 03:12 AM
Richard Bridge 12 Nov 10 - 09:08 PM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Nov 10 - 06:24 PM
akenaton 12 Nov 10 - 05:48 PM
GUEST,crowsister 12 Nov 10 - 05:02 PM
Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) 12 Nov 10 - 05:00 PM
Bonzo3legs 12 Nov 10 - 04:49 PM
Richard Bridge 12 Nov 10 - 04:44 PM
GUEST,crowsister 12 Nov 10 - 04:43 PM
GUEST,crowsister 12 Nov 10 - 04:39 PM
Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) 12 Nov 10 - 04:36 PM
akenaton 12 Nov 10 - 04:24 PM
Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) 12 Nov 10 - 04:21 PM
akenaton 12 Nov 10 - 04:12 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: gnu
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:09 PM

2012.10? Not good enough. Perhaps a class action lawsuit might be in order. If the government - the politicians and the silly servants - haven't the brains to get this right they should be sent back to school. The students themselves should have the brains to think this through and go about mitigating the problem without resorting to this silly ass marching and resulting violence. It all seems so silly that, again, IF it is required, NOBODY can see how to do it properly.

I keep saying "if it is required" because it is easily proven that it is not required. It's a simple cost-benefit analysis which one can underline emperically by citing the example of the benefit of just HAVING children and nurturing them. If you educate the young, they provide economic benefit in future. If you do not educate the young, they provide little except cannon fodder. Ahhhh, there it is. Yeah, I'll say it for the thousandth time... the rich subjugate the poor. In order for them to wage war to save their richess, they need a hungry, young populace which they can manipulate.

But, if the students (poor) were smart, they would sue the politicians for breach of contract, trust and deriliction of duty. After all, the politicians are paid and, thus, they have a contract to uphold a reasonable duty of care that does not bring financial hardship such as is being forced on students already attending uni. It's just common sense.

The only other recourse is to lynch the fuckers... as Marie Antoinette the T'ird said, "Let them eat shit... and die." Seriously, if someone fucked you out of a huge amount of coin wouldn't you be a tad pissed? I can understand their anger, not their violence... unless it becomes necessary.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:16 PM

The increases commence in October 2012 I believe, but I'll listen to 6 Kate Rusby CDs if I'm wrong!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: gnu
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 02:48 PM

Haven't read the thread.

I just heard that tuition has been tripled.

Now, if that is required, I do not understand why the government would not make the hikes apply to those entering uni NEXT year and hold the fees at present levels for students already attending. At least that would allow those who have already committed to certain expenditures to continue and not lose their expenditures to date.

Perhaps this has already been suggested. If so, I apologize. If it hasn't been expained to the government, which should have had the common sense to do same in the first place, I hope some of you UKers lash them in the newspapers for their idiocy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 09:06 AM

I don't believe they 'excuse' the yobbery in any way, nor have I said so. I just believe it disingenuous to make that your main (only) target of attack and ignore those who have deeply damaged our society with their greed and mis-government.
Such tunnel vision has been a diversionary tactic as long as I have been interested in politics - "the great unwashed of Aldermaston" made sure we 'layabouts' were in the limelight rather than the cause we were espousing. Similarly with Viet-Nam, the miners, the Poll Tax..... name any cause that has brought people out on the street exercising their democratic right to protest.
Re my use of the word 'criminal'. It seems a little pedantic to dismiss the use of a term which is in general use in a wider (albeit less-accurate) sense. Crimes against society; humanity.... real enough although, in many cases, out of the reach of the law.
Thatcher used her influence successfully to prevent Augusto Pinochet from standing trial for torture and mass murder, which, in my book, implicated her in his crimes against humanity - not technically a criminal but......
The greed that brought about the present crisis will almost inevitably lead to reduced life style, increasing bad health, even death for some of the more vunerable members of our society, yet, far from being punished, those responsible will be bailed out with our taxes and will almost certainly continue to receive large bonuses for their work. Not criminal, of course, but I can't think of a better word to describe it.
It is now recognised without doubt that a significant number of politicians have been making false claims for expenses over a long period of time. Had I made similar false claims when filling in a tax form or an accident report, I would have faced a hefty fine and maybe even imprisonment. I would be a criminal, they are not. Buggered if I can see why, can you?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 06:00 AM

>>>Mike - you are defending the status quo by your joining those who would make the only target of their bile the violent tiny minority, and appear to see nothing wrong with the events leading up to the situation that brought about these protests.<<<
========

No, Jim; like you, I think this a dire government, out to ruin the respectable hardworking part of the populace and the unfortunate who have not that opportunity; which I join you in deploring. (But the word 'criminal' in connection with this, for reasons I have explained above, nevertheless seems to me counter-productive).

But I cannot thereby associate with what seems to me your most odd inference, that these governmental shortcomings somehow *excuse* the sort of destructive & criminal yobbery to which we have all been witness. Could you perhaps expound your rationale a little more clearly, please?

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 02:51 AM

"Ake is starting to make more and more sense."
Not come across the racism - but seconded - though I'm sure my opinion is equally unwelcome.
It would be helpful if one of these tame Tories would put up some sort of a defence and explanation for the abject failure and excessisive behavour of the system that has created the present state of affairs, but I suppose that would be stretching it a little - far easier to rally round the flag.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 06:43 PM

When one is incapable of recognising the nature of homophobia or racism, his views on the validity of diverse socio-economic systems must be taken with a degree of scepticism.

So for your qualified support Richard, thank you, but no thank you.

As Mrs Palin says ""When the Left pat you on the back, quickly reassess where you are and readjust, for the liberals' praise is a warning bell you must heed,"


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: andrew e
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 06:34 PM

All You Need Is Love.

But it ain't gonna happen.

Governments have no idea what that means.

But we can still see things with love.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 05:31 PM

You know, it's kind of odd, but apart from his homophobia and racism, Ake is starting to make more and more sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:53 PM

You can't vote out the system Mike.
The financial crash was a SYSTEMIC failure. Mr Brown, whom I would describe as centre left, a believer in govt control, oversaw the further deregulation of banking not because he personally liked the idea, but because he was obliged to stimulate growth in the economy.

We were uncompetitive, and the system hates people who are uncompetitive, it leaves them to rot and moves on to easier pickings....it has always been so....it is a fact of political life.

We have two choices, we either slash the living standards of the poor and middle class, making the national gap between rich and poor twice as bad as it is now, with all the associated problems that will engender, hoping to turn the clock back ten years and reset this system so that it can fail again in another five.

OR
We can make a start on constructing a fairer society, allbeit with a lower but equitable living standard for everyone.....I dont pretend that this will be easy or pleasant, but if we are being serious, I dont believe we have any other option.

The very rich and their mercenaries will do everything in their power to smash us to pulp....As they have tried to do with other dissenting regimes...(Cuba for example).

Our defence will involve violence, and if anybody thinks capitalism can be defeated or even affected without violence they are living on a totally different planet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:01 PM

Mike - you are defending the status quo by your joining those who would make the only target of their bile the violent tiny minority, and appear to see nothing wrong with the events leading up to the situation that brought about these protests.
If I have misjudged your stance, I apologise, but I see no evidence here.
In the next few years, the lives of close members of my family will be thrown into turmoil by the economic situation - I make no apologies for feeling angry about this and am happy to point the finger at those I feel are the cause.
As there is no chance whatever that the guilty will be punished for the damege they have inflicted on people's lives, I dearly hope the next few years sees the streets of Britain congested with protesters there is no sign whatever of support from the politicians you say we should vote for.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 03:28 PM

Don't forget common law crimes as well as statutory ones.

Well, although the fine print of the definition does not help, I'd have thought there was something of a ring about "obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception".


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 02:09 PM

I haven't said I am 'in favour of' anything, Jim, or 'keenly support' anyone; except precise use of language, please ~~ apart from everything else, words used loosely and hyperbolically notoriously lose their effect, which is what has happened to the word 'criminal' as you are using it ~~ it has, in your & your compeers' writing, lost any effectiveness as a precise term & become a mere boo-word.

It is rather harsh to denounce as 'in favour of the status quo' anyone who doesn't actively militate against the present situation. In return, I would suggest it is a bit vain to try and emulate the famous countryman in the old Punch cartoon, who, asked the way, replied "Well, you can't start from here".

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 01:32 PM

"But it is just rather silly & pathetic to denounce them as 'criminals',"
You are right of course Mike; it is criminal to throw stones and damage property, but not to bleed a nation dry so people go hungry, die of neglect and lack of adequate medical cover and are made homeless and jobless - funny old world you seem to be in favour of.
"campaign to get them voted out of office"
And replace them with what? A bunch of your conservatives (under another name) have just been voted out and replaced with an equally privelege-driven bunch - Thatcher's offsprings supported in office by a party ready to sell itself to the highest bidder - which leaves the rest of us where exactly?
By the time the next election comes around (and just assuming we are not presented with another Tweedledum-Tweedledee choice) the homelessness, inadequate health, eduaction, pension will be a done deal and those who have had no part in the present mess will have been milked dry in order to pay for the excesses.
Are there none of you supporters of the status quo with the bottle to defend the past few years behaviour by those you so keenly support, or is it just "ah well, what's done's done" - or maybe, to borrow an old Liverpool phrase "Ding-ding, I'm on the bus"?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 12:50 PM

Well, Jim, one wins some & one loses some: indeed I was fortunate in the time I received my university education {it wasn't, tho, of course, just the present lot that you are inveighing against that made such privilege a thing of the past}, I greatly appreciated it and could not have been more grateful. But I belonged also to the generation expected to pay for it by that time-wasting period of boredom [when not worse: three of my basic-training platoon were subsequently killed in action & a friend at my college had one leg + the MC thanks to a spell in Korea] known as National Service.

What would I do with this lot? you ask. Why, if I thought like you {not saying whether I do or don't} about them, campaign to get them voted out of office, of course: a privilege we all have is the ability to do just that. But it is just rather silly & pathetic to denounce them as 'criminals', a word of precise legal application, when you know as well as I do that they are not in any possible legal sense anything of the sort. I mean, name what Act Of Parliament they have breached. Go on. We're waiting...

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 11:27 AM

"Don't be so utterly stupid. "
In the face of that overwhelming argument, I'm sure you've convinced us all.
You've had the facts - greedy bankers and investors bringing the economy to its knees, corrupt, indifferent and incompetent politicians now undermining the social infrastucture of Britain with their cutbacks which will inevitably bring about closures, re-possession of homes, increased unemployment, reduced care to the elderly, the reduction, and even withdrawal of pensions - where's your response to that?
So far, all you've suggested that anybody who opposes the establishment should be dealt with as the Argentinian fascists dealt with their opponents.
IS THAT IT??
"doesn't blind you to the fact that a malevolent yobbo who deliberately and with malicious intent throws a heavy object from a high building into a crowd of people below is also a criminal...."
Of course he is Mike, the operative part of your statement being "ALSO a criminal" - what do you propose should happen to his fellow criminals who created the mess? His behaviour pales into insignificance next to the real damage that has been done to the country.
Cutbacks in the health service will lead to increased ill health and even death among the more vunerable members of our society, cutbacks in education will not only affect adversely the future of those effected, but will also reduce the ability to get out of the mess created by big business and government..... pensions, carers, social workers, employment..... need I go on; I'm sure you are as aware as I am of the damage that has been done to our society by 'the great and the good'. I am also a follower of Question Time and some weeks ago I heard a woman firefighter tell the audience that she and her colleagues were all due to be dismised from their work and re-hired at reduced wages and conditions - were's your outrage about that - or has it all been expended on a missile-throwing yob?
I'm more than a little surprised that you, who seem proud of and grateful for your university education, are not defending the rights of others to have the same advantages.
Nobody here appears to be putting up any sort of a defence for the scum who created this mess, not here certainly. Personally I find them equally as malicious and malevolent as any missile thowing yob - the only difference being that the effect of the former's maliciousness is more far-reaching and damages us all - oh, and he will probably be punished by the law, while the others will continue receiving their obscenely inflated salaries and awarding themselves with large bonuses for a job well done.   
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:39 AM

200


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:38 AM

Jim, you are perfectly right. Bozo doesn't get it (or doesn't want to get it), all he wants is to stay rich and sod the rest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:14 AM

"The really serious criminals of this affair are not the small handful of nutters who caused violence on the student demonstration, but the incompetent, indifferent and dishonest politicians (of all shades of conservatism) who allowed greedy and predatory bankers and speculators to damage and all- but collapse the economy, leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab."

Don't be so utterly stupid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:07 AM

Jim, you are wrong. You are so blinkered.

This is about the students protesting. Not your hatred for the Government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:40 AM

Come, now, Jim: you know you are over-simplifying for political motives. You speak as if there can only be ONE sort of "really serious criminal" involved. Surely the fact that you might regard "incompetent, indifferent and dishonest politicians (of all shades of conservatism) who allowed greedy and predatory bankers and speculators to damage and all-but collapse the economy, leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab" as being of 'criminal' intent {with which not everyone would agree}, doesn't blind you to the fact that a malevolent yobbo who deliberately and with malicious intent throws a heavy object from a high building into a crowd of people below is also a criminal {with which surely no right-thinking person would disagree}. The two views are not incompatible, as you appear to believe; and pointing this out is not "sidetracking the thread".

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: bubblyrat
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:35 AM

Of course, Jim !! So, what should we do about it ?? Take up cudgels against our lawfully-elected government ?? Shall you be the first to raise a peasant army against our oppressors ?? I mean, I'd probably join you,to be honest,likewise millions of others, but when,Jim, when are you going to do it ?? Soon ??


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:26 AM

I see that the handful of pro-establishment posters are still intent on sidetracking this thread away from the main issue.
The really serious criminals of this affair are not the small handful of nutters who caused violence on the student demonstration, but the incompetent, indifferent and dishonest politicians (of all shades of conservatism) who allowed greedy and predatory bankers and speculators to damage and all- but collapse the economy, leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:54 AM

Well there you go.

http://blogs.news.sky.com/lifeofcrime/Post:196b92ea-6eed-45f7-aeed-39f2fef206a4

and the latest on this scumbag

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11763124

Well it seems he is a student. Hope he gets kicked out of University.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 04:03 PM

"I support your comments Jim, until the last paragraph. I will never support violence or breaking the law."
Sorry about the delay in responding - an enjoyable week-end listening to singing and discussion.
You miss my point - I do naot advocate violence or lawbreaking, basically because, as things stand, it is counter productive and divisive; though I do question your priorities.
Lawbreaking is a moveble feast in today's society - a Prime Minister can send a nation's youth to their deaths in pursuing an illegal war, politicians can rob the taxpayer of millions with bogus claims for expenses, an ex Tory Prime Minister can use her political influence to prevent a mass torturer and murderer from coming to trial, bankers and speculators can swindle and manipulate Britain to the brink of bankrupcy and in doing so, risk damaging the health service, the education and welfare system, employment, the homes of ordinary people, pensions...... - all without being touched by the law. But a few nutters doing damage to private property - according to the aptly named Bozo, that calls for the same tactics utilised by a fascist junta that tortured and disappeared thousands of its opponents.
Thank you Bozo for a perfect example of today's conservatism.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: andrew e
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 05:39 PM

A report by Charlie Veitch of the Love police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_5MY0BZn3Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neiR7uZAXD4


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 10:42 AM

Any demo photos uploaded to flickr?


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 09:16 AM

I dont read the Guardian Richard, I take the Times, out of habit and to know my enemies.
I suppose the Guardian would make me even more angry than the Times does in any case,containing as it does the opinions of the real obstructions to freedom and happiness.

I believe we are dreaming, folks need to have rather less to lose than they do at present, for any sort of systemic change to take place.
Unfortunately by the time that state of affairs is reached, the final whistle will have long gone.

Just thought I would throw in a little footballing metaphor to cheer up "Big Phil",   who is of course also long gone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 07:40 PM

Actually, Ake, there are a number of articles in today's Grauniad taht you should read before you tar all the media with the same brush.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 07:00 PM

Very few backed the miners Phil, the Thatcher govt had something to give the middle class.....even something to give the working class, although they took most of it back.

This time its different, there will be nothing but tears and pain for all but the rich....and most people can see we have been robbed, even if our own greed contributed to that robbery.
Politicians, "liberals" and the media will try to convince us that we must sacrifice all we have to repair the system, but to what end?
We are in decline, uncompetitive, with no industry and nothing left to instigate another spurious boom.

If we are to go back to year zero, remember what they keep telling us.
"WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER!!   :0) Aye...that'll be fuckin' right!


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 06:09 PM

We don't often apologise when we really should. Thanks for that, Richie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Big Phil
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 05:41 PM

I like to read what the deluded write on here. Maggie destroyed the pits, and kicked the arses of the miners - who were real men. Can anyone believe a few kids in London smashing the odd window will have the establishment worried. Get real, fairy stories are fiction.

Phil*


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 02:45 PM

I wish to apologise unreservedly regarding comments I made on this thread last night. It was the wrong reaction to a comment. It just tripped off something I have trouble dealing with in my life and I wrongly chose to vent my anger and in my paranoia ventured into territory which I now realise was totally unrelated. No sympathy votes required, just an acceptance of my apology.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: paula t
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 12:43 PM

I was actually very impressed with the attitude and behaviour of most of the students at the march. The BBC quickly stopped using the clip of the students who were being interviewed while the trouble was taking place.(Wonder why?)
These students were very eloquently explaining that they had nothing to do with the trouble, and that this was not only unacceptable behaviour , but was counterproductive. An anarchist shouted something at them as he walked by and one of the young men called him back and challenged him about his behaviour. He asked if he had seen the policewoman being helped away from the scene with a bleeding head, and asked the yob if he really thought that was a good way of expressing an opinion and being taken seriously.Fair play to him. The yob quickly drifted away after being made to look completely stupid and immature.
I'd be interested to find out if those people causing the trouble had anything to do with higher (or any) education at all. I would be surprised.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 05:39 AM

Most of us have our own personal tradjedies that we have to cope with, some manage better than others, but nevertheless, is is very wrong to play this sort of card in an internet discussion. It is unfairly tring to ut some guilt on a poster who opposes your view and invariably backfires.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 03:32 AM

I dont really understand what is going on here.

If I had suffered some personal tragedy like Mr Black, I dont think I would be using it as a card in an internet debate.
How on earth are people supposed to know all the personal circumstances of other posters.

If we were afraid to speak in case we offended someone, there would never be any discussion; and the difference between the damage caused by the students, and the demolishion of a building with explosives by an organised political/religious faction is obvious.

At this stage, people only have to show that they are unwilling to be treated like sheep.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,Mary
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 03:12 AM

"what I was joking about is plain for anyone to see"

"Richie, that is one of the top piles of non sequiturs of all time"

Your right Richard, it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 09:08 PM

A distinct odour of paranoia from the lunatic right, here. Knowing Crow Sister I'd be sure that she would not knowingly be insensitive about the death of someone's child - and what I was joking about is plain for anyone to see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 06:24 PM

A very politically skewed Question Time panel - and the more I see Caroline Flint the more I dislike her and think she is in the wrong party.

But I was pleased to note that, when the ultra-rightist Douglas Murray (the director of something with the nerve to have adopted the label "the Centre for Social Cohesion")launched into a defence of torture, more especially waterboarding, he was listened to in stony silence, with not a single person in the room applauding so far as I could hear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:48 PM

The QT audience, is I think, quite a good guide to public opinion.
The Rise and Fall of Tony Blair was mirrored in the reception given to labour govt ministers; as the hypocrisy and corruption deepened, culminating in the War in Iraq and the expenses scandal, politicians of all parties became equally despised.
The financial meltdown and the political reaction to it should be the last straw......maybe the worms are turning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,crowsister
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:02 PM

"Interesting how the audience sat in stoney silence while the politicians fulminated on the "attack on democracy" "gratuitous violence" etc.
A few years ago their tirade would have brought righteous applause from any QuestionTime audiance. Are times really changing?"
"
I don't know Ake, I feel "generation Y" may blanketly blame all of "us" with wrinkles. I've never believed I'm one of 'you' but of course I am now. They'll be forced into opposition to the order, or at least anyone who doesn't wish to be consumed by the consumer society.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:00 PM

Bonzo, My daughter in law was on a three week Training Development Secondment in Ulster when she was killed. Two so-called friends on here are aware of it and clearly told this individual to use it against me. Then did you note the support response of jest came in very quickly.

Sick as come Bonzo, sick as they come.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:49 PM

You see Richie, they cannot tolerate any point of view other than their own. Do these people have a life away from their socialist computer screens? I doubt it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:44 PM

Richie, that is one of the top piles of non sequiturs of all time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,crowsister
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:43 PM

Thanks Richie, I'm Sorry our comments crossed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,crowsister
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:39 PM

Sorry Richie, you lost any credibility with me when you attacked MtheGM.

Your (published) PM to him was not very nice.

As a self avowed Tory he inevitably opposes almost everything I believe in politically, but he remains civil to me irrespective.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:36 PM

I lost my daughter in law in a "measly office building" bombing. Crowsister, maybe you would like to tell that to her children. Glad you find it amusing Richard. Clearly that post was geared towards me to get a reaction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:24 PM

The difference of course is a large bang and a big shower of debris.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:21 PM

"On the one hand I have no personal objection to the destruction of one measly office building "

Crowsister have you ever been involved in an evacuation of a public building, watched firefighters risk their lives, saw ambulance crews racing to the scene, hundreds of people told to get out of nearby properties due to fear of fire spreading ?

Clearly you haven't otherwise you would not have made that statement.
Tell us, is there a difference in students causing the destruction of an office building, or dissident republicans or Muslim extremists ?

I have never read such an irresponsible comment on any website.


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Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:12 PM

Watched Question Time last night.....must have been the most R/wing panel of all time.

Interesting how the audience sat in stoney silence while the politicians fulminated on the "attack on democracy" "gratuitous violence" etc.
A few years ago their tirade would have brought righteous applause from any QuestionTime audiance. Are times really changing?

In a desperately biased programme, the best part was when a guy addressed the panel from the floor...."Dont you realise that we dont believe a word you say....any of you....we just dont trust you"
he finished to wild applause.


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