BS: Students march against tuition fees UK

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:04 AM

mandotim, yes I don't think the announced cuts have went far enough. I see far too many young couples struggling paying for mortgages, child care, council tax and daily living while other couples or single mothers cream thousands off the tax payer each year and enjoy a better lifestyle and can roll about their beds to lunchtime. They are parasites, nothing more nothing less. It's wrong when someone of few morals is rewarded in life by a generous government handout.

We need to cut housing and child benefits and call all of the so-called disabled in for a health check to see if there is some kind of work they do. The guy who tiled my bathroom last year told me he was on D.L.A. and drove a mobility car (after he carried out the work of course) Needless to say I reported him.

Take for example a story that appeared recently in the Daily Mail. A single mother of four on £37,000 a year in benefits claims she will need a £60,000 job to make it worth her while to work.

She gets £3,077.20 a month in income support, child benefit, housing benefit and incapacity benefit. She claimed she had some mysterious illness yet goes out drinking three nights a week. She admitted she had four children with three different dads and lives in a new four-bedroom house at our expense. The new rules to be brought in by the Coalition Government will limit any single family's welfare payments to £500 a week, that's simply a joke. If you want kids, pay for them, if you want to booze, smoke and scratch yourself in bed to midday, do so, but don't expect us to pay you for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:09 AM

Richie - Sorry to tell you but someone has stolen your mudcat ID and used it to post a rational argument

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:12 AM

Ah! I see you've got it back

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:15 AM

I went to a crappy Secondary Modern school back in the early 60s. When I left I went to the local Technical College to do 'O'Levels (I was supported in this by my parents). When we had finished our 'O' Levels I, and a group of my fellow students, went to the college authorities and asked if they would put on an 'A' Level course.

The college Vice Principal addressed us thus: "I get fed up with Secondary Modern kids like you getting yourselves a few 'O' Levels and then getting big ideas about going to University."

In the end we did get our 'A' Level course and some of us did get to go to University.

Looks like the elitist dreams of that miserable old Tory git (long dead, I hope) are finally going to be realised as the children of the 'lower classes' are priced out of Higher Education.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:34 AM

My own fear is that the cuts do not go far enough.

No doubt Black is thinking of the proposal to take away the mobility allowance from disabled people in residential care homes. The lily-livered Coalition is still proposing to continue feeding these layabouts.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:06 AM

"In the end we did get our 'A' Level course and some of us did get to go to University.

Looks like the elitist dreams of that miserable old Tory git (long dead, I hope) are finally going to be realised"

I'm very much afraid so. I have a friend who went to a Sec. Mod. met an inspirational teacher who encouraged her to go to university. She got a law degree and is now a County Court judge. I doubt if anyone will be able to do this under the new system so, effectively, the law will be increasingly under the control of the rich elite.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,RIchard Bridge on another browser
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:51 AM

"If you want kids, pay for them"

I'm not sure that I approve of children being for sale.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 09:14 AM

Oh I don't know, Richard. My kids are getting increasingly expensive (especially the one at uni) - anyone want to make me an offer?

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 09:18 AM

Check your keyboard, Ritchie . You may need to wipe some froth off it.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:12 AM

Heard a great Who gig from 1980 this morning with Kenney Jones drumming............ah, wrong forum...........still similar crap being discussed - I laugh!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:35 AM

Wrong Bonzo. You snort. Or maybe grunt.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:53 AM

"No offence, but wow... "Day and age like this.."   You realise of course there are people say in Doncaster who are grandparents who were not even born when Lennon died? (Monday 8 December 1980 at 10..00pm local time, he says without even looking, and showing his age at the same time.)"


I realize it's biologically possible, but wow...29 year old grannies! Get a lot of them over there do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:59 AM

Well kids in Doncaster are having babies at 14 so it is well possible :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 11:27 AM

Doncaster's got GILFs! :^0

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:31 PM

This thread is drifting very strangely...

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,crowsister
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:10 PM

I have mixed feelings. On the one hand I have no personal objection to the destruction of one measly office building symbolically 'housing' those who desire to destroy education (and thus any kind of genuine social & political power) for anyone other than the very wealthy. I object to it as a media faux pass, and one that may be outdated. My anxieties about "anarchist" actions are: too much too soon. My belief is that this is an age of media and information, these are the weapons to use most effectively, the time of violent protest may still be with us when appropriate - but lets explore the other opportunities afforded dissidents here and now. Mass propaganda is in the hands of the right wing. Bar the internet. As a woman, I fear premature events seed nothing except more aggressive barriers.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:09 PM

CS - definitely laugh out loud. That final sentence is a masterpiece of single entendre!

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:12 PM

Watched Question Time last night.....must have been the most R/wing panel of all time.

Interesting how the audience sat in stoney silence while the politicians fulminated on the "attack on democracy" "gratuitous violence" etc.
A few years ago their tirade would have brought righteous applause from any QuestionTime audiance. Are times really changing?

In a desperately biased programme, the best part was when a guy addressed the panel from the floor...."Dont you realise that we dont believe a word you say....any of you....we just dont trust you"
he finished to wild applause.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:21 PM

"On the one hand I have no personal objection to the destruction of one measly office building "

Crowsister have you ever been involved in an evacuation of a public building, watched firefighters risk their lives, saw ambulance crews racing to the scene, hundreds of people told to get out of nearby properties due to fear of fire spreading ?

Clearly you haven't otherwise you would not have made that statement.
Tell us, is there a difference in students causing the destruction of an office building, or dissident republicans or Muslim extremists ?

I have never read such an irresponsible comment on any website.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:24 PM

The difference of course is a large bang and a big shower of debris.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:36 PM

I lost my daughter in law in a "measly office building" bombing. Crowsister, maybe you would like to tell that to her children. Glad you find it amusing Richard. Clearly that post was geared towards me to get a reaction.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,crowsister
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:39 PM

Sorry Richie, you lost any credibility with me when you attacked MtheGM.

Your (published) PM to him was not very nice.

As a self avowed Tory he inevitably opposes almost everything I believe in politically, but he remains civil to me irrespective.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,crowsister
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:43 PM

Thanks Richie, I'm Sorry our comments crossed.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:44 PM

Richie, that is one of the top piles of non sequiturs of all time.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:49 PM

You see Richie, they cannot tolerate any point of view other than their own. Do these people have a life away from their socialist computer screens? I doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:00 PM

Bonzo, My daughter in law was on a three week Training Development Secondment in Ulster when she was killed. Two so-called friends on here are aware of it and clearly told this individual to use it against me. Then did you note the support response of jest came in very quickly.

Sick as come Bonzo, sick as they come.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,crowsister
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:02 PM

"Interesting how the audience sat in stoney silence while the politicians fulminated on the "attack on democracy" "gratuitous violence" etc.
A few years ago their tirade would have brought righteous applause from any QuestionTime audiance. Are times really changing?"
"
I don't know Ake, I feel "generation Y" may blanketly blame all of "us" with wrinkles. I've never believed I'm one of 'you' but of course I am now. They'll be forced into opposition to the order, or at least anyone who doesn't wish to be consumed by the consumer society.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:48 PM

The QT audience, is I think, quite a good guide to public opinion.
The Rise and Fall of Tony Blair was mirrored in the reception given to labour govt ministers; as the hypocrisy and corruption deepened, culminating in the War in Iraq and the expenses scandal, politicians of all parties became equally despised.
The financial meltdown and the political reaction to it should be the last straw......maybe the worms are turning.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 06:24 PM

A very politically skewed Question Time panel - and the more I see Caroline Flint the more I dislike her and think she is in the wrong party.

But I was pleased to note that, when the ultra-rightist Douglas Murray (the director of something with the nerve to have adopted the label "the Centre for Social Cohesion")launched into a defence of torture, more especially waterboarding, he was listened to in stony silence, with not a single person in the room applauding so far as I could hear.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 09:08 PM

A distinct odour of paranoia from the lunatic right, here. Knowing Crow Sister I'd be sure that she would not knowingly be insensitive about the death of someone's child - and what I was joking about is plain for anyone to see.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,Mary
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 03:12 AM

"what I was joking about is plain for anyone to see"

"Richie, that is one of the top piles of non sequiturs of all time"

Your right Richard, it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 03:32 AM

I dont really understand what is going on here.

If I had suffered some personal tragedy like Mr Black, I dont think I would be using it as a card in an internet debate.
How on earth are people supposed to know all the personal circumstances of other posters.

If we were afraid to speak in case we offended someone, there would never be any discussion; and the difference between the damage caused by the students, and the demolishion of a building with explosives by an organised political/religious faction is obvious.

At this stage, people only have to show that they are unwilling to be treated like sheep.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 05:39 AM

Most of us have our own personal tradjedies that we have to cope with, some manage better than others, but nevertheless, is is very wrong to play this sort of card in an internet discussion. It is unfairly tring to ut some guilt on a poster who opposes your view and invariably backfires.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: paula t
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 12:43 PM

I was actually very impressed with the attitude and behaviour of most of the students at the march. The BBC quickly stopped using the clip of the students who were being interviewed while the trouble was taking place.(Wonder why?)
These students were very eloquently explaining that they had nothing to do with the trouble, and that this was not only unacceptable behaviour , but was counterproductive. An anarchist shouted something at them as he walked by and one of the young men called him back and challenged him about his behaviour. He asked if he had seen the policewoman being helped away from the scene with a bleeding head, and asked the yob if he really thought that was a good way of expressing an opinion and being taken seriously.Fair play to him. The yob quickly drifted away after being made to look completely stupid and immature.
I'd be interested to find out if those people causing the trouble had anything to do with higher (or any) education at all. I would be surprised.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 02:45 PM

I wish to apologise unreservedly regarding comments I made on this thread last night. It was the wrong reaction to a comment. It just tripped off something I have trouble dealing with in my life and I wrongly chose to vent my anger and in my paranoia ventured into territory which I now realise was totally unrelated. No sympathy votes required, just an acceptance of my apology.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Big Phil
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 05:41 PM

I like to read what the deluded write on here. Maggie destroyed the pits, and kicked the arses of the miners - who were real men. Can anyone believe a few kids in London smashing the odd window will have the establishment worried. Get real, fairy stories are fiction.

Phil*

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 06:09 PM

We don't often apologise when we really should. Thanks for that, Richie.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 07:00 PM

Very few backed the miners Phil, the Thatcher govt had something to give the middle class.....even something to give the working class, although they took most of it back.

This time its different, there will be nothing but tears and pain for all but the rich....and most people can see we have been robbed, even if our own greed contributed to that robbery.
Politicians, "liberals" and the media will try to convince us that we must sacrifice all we have to repair the system, but to what end?
We are in decline, uncompetitive, with no industry and nothing left to instigate another spurious boom.

If we are to go back to year zero, remember what they keep telling us.
"WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER!!   :0) Aye...that'll be fuckin' right!

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 07:40 PM

Actually, Ake, there are a number of articles in today's Grauniad taht you should read before you tar all the media with the same brush.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 09:16 AM

I dont read the Guardian Richard, I take the Times, out of habit and to know my enemies.
I suppose the Guardian would make me even more angry than the Times does in any case,containing as it does the opinions of the real obstructions to freedom and happiness.

I believe we are dreaming, folks need to have rather less to lose than they do at present, for any sort of systemic change to take place.
Unfortunately by the time that state of affairs is reached, the final whistle will have long gone.

Just thought I would throw in a little footballing metaphor to cheer up "Big Phil",   who is of course also long gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 10:42 AM

Any demo photos uploaded to flickr?

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: andrew e
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 05:39 PM

A report by Charlie Veitch of the Love police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_5MY0BZn3Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neiR7uZAXD4

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 04:03 PM

"I support your comments Jim, until the last paragraph. I will never support violence or breaking the law."
Sorry about the delay in responding - an enjoyable week-end listening to singing and discussion.
You miss my point - I do naot advocate violence or lawbreaking, basically because, as things stand, it is counter productive and divisive; though I do question your priorities.
Lawbreaking is a moveble feast in today's society - a Prime Minister can send a nation's youth to their deaths in pursuing an illegal war, politicians can rob the taxpayer of millions with bogus claims for expenses, an ex Tory Prime Minister can use her political influence to prevent a mass torturer and murderer from coming to trial, bankers and speculators can swindle and manipulate Britain to the brink of bankrupcy and in doing so, risk damaging the health service, the education and welfare system, employment, the homes of ordinary people, pensions...... - all without being touched by the law. But a few nutters doing damage to private property - according to the aptly named Bozo, that calls for the same tactics utilised by a fascist junta that tortured and disappeared thousands of its opponents.
Thank you Bozo for a perfect example of today's conservatism.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:54 AM

Well there you go.

http://blogs.news.sky.com/lifeofcrime/Post:196b92ea-6eed-45f7-aeed-39f2fef206a4

and the latest on this scumbag

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11763124

Well it seems he is a student. Hope he gets kicked out of University.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:26 AM

I see that the handful of pro-establishment posters are still intent on sidetracking this thread away from the main issue.
The really serious criminals of this affair are not the small handful of nutters who caused violence on the student demonstration, but the incompetent, indifferent and dishonest politicians (of all shades of conservatism) who allowed greedy and predatory bankers and speculators to damage and all- but collapse the economy, leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: bubblyrat
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:35 AM

Of course, Jim !! So, what should we do about it ?? Take up cudgels against our lawfully-elected government ?? Shall you be the first to raise a peasant army against our oppressors ?? I mean, I'd probably join you,to be honest,likewise millions of others, but when,Jim, when are you going to do it ?? Soon ??

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:40 AM

Come, now, Jim: you know you are over-simplifying for political motives. You speak as if there can only be ONE sort of "really serious criminal" involved. Surely the fact that you might regard "incompetent, indifferent and dishonest politicians (of all shades of conservatism) who allowed greedy and predatory bankers and speculators to damage and all-but collapse the economy, leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab" as being of 'criminal' intent {with which not everyone would agree}, doesn't blind you to the fact that a malevolent yobbo who deliberately and with malicious intent throws a heavy object from a high building into a crowd of people below is also a criminal {with which surely no right-thinking person would disagree}. The two views are not incompatible, as you appear to believe; and pointing this out is not "sidetracking the thread".

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:07 AM

Jim, you are wrong. You are so blinkered.

This is about the students protesting. Not your hatred for the Government.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:14 AM

"The really serious criminals of this affair are not the small handful of nutters who caused violence on the student demonstration, but the incompetent, indifferent and dishonest politicians (of all shades of conservatism) who allowed greedy and predatory bankers and speculators to damage and all- but collapse the economy, leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab."

Don't be so utterly stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:38 AM

Jim, you are perfectly right. Bozo doesn't get it (or doesn't want to get it), all he wants is to stay rich and sod the rest.