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BS: Remember President Truman

kendall 16 Nov 10 - 07:09 AM
Rapparee 16 Nov 10 - 09:06 AM
Louie Roy 16 Nov 10 - 10:41 AM
Bill D 16 Nov 10 - 11:40 AM
GUEST,Songbob 16 Nov 10 - 12:58 PM
Donuel 16 Nov 10 - 01:14 PM
JohnInKansas 16 Nov 10 - 01:21 PM
Don Firth 16 Nov 10 - 02:09 PM
Art Thieme 16 Nov 10 - 02:32 PM
Don Firth 16 Nov 10 - 05:01 PM
GUEST,bankley 16 Nov 10 - 06:58 PM
kendall 16 Nov 10 - 07:57 PM
GUEST,Seth from Olympia 17 Nov 10 - 04:12 AM
kendall 17 Nov 10 - 07:39 PM
Bobert 17 Nov 10 - 07:56 PM
DougR 18 Nov 10 - 12:31 AM
mousethief 18 Nov 10 - 01:39 AM
kendall 18 Nov 10 - 07:12 AM
Bobert 18 Nov 10 - 05:09 PM
GUEST,Grishka 19 Nov 10 - 06:48 AM
GUEST,Neil D 19 Nov 10 - 10:33 AM
pdq 19 Nov 10 - 02:47 PM
Stringsinger 19 Nov 10 - 04:12 PM
Don Firth 19 Nov 10 - 04:20 PM
kendall 19 Nov 10 - 05:36 PM
Bill D 19 Nov 10 - 07:30 PM
kendall 19 Nov 10 - 07:41 PM
Bobert 19 Nov 10 - 07:48 PM
Bill D 19 Nov 10 - 11:01 PM
GUEST,Grishka 20 Nov 10 - 06:16 AM
kendall 20 Nov 10 - 07:10 AM

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Subject: BS: Remember President Truman
From: kendall
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:09 AM

Remember Harry?
Harry Truman was a different kind of President. He probably made as many, or more important decisions regarding our nation's history as any of the other 32 Presidents preceding him.. However, a measure of his greatness may rest on what he did after he left the White House. The only asset he had when he died was the house he lived in, which was in Independence   Missouri . His wife had inherited the house from her mother and father and other than their years in the White House, they lived their entire lives there. When he retired from office in 1952, his income was a U.S. Army pension reported to have been $13,507.72 a year. Congress, noting that he was paying for his stamps and personally licking them, granted him an 'allowance' and, later, a retroactive pension of $25,000 per year. After President Eisenhower was inaugurated, Harry and Bess drove home to Missouri by themselves. There was no Secret Service following them. When offered corporate positions at large salaries, he declined, stating, "You don't want me. You want the office of the President, and that doesn't belong to me. It belongs to the American people and it's not for sale.." Even later, on May 6, 1971, when Congress was preparing to award him the Medal of Honor on his 87th birthday, he refused to accept it, writing, "I don't consider that I have done anything which should be the reason for any award, Congressional or otherwise." As president he paid for all of his own travel expenses and food. Modern politicians have found a new level of success in cashing in on the Presidency, resulting in untold wealth. Today, many in Congress also have found a way to become quite wealthy while enjoying the fruits of their offices. Political offices are now for sale. Good old Harry Truman was correct when he observed, "My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician.. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference! I say dig him up and clone him!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:06 AM

I knew folks who fought under him in WW1. They thought he was a roaring SOB, but they'd follow him into Hell because he was a true leader and never asked them to do what he wouldn't do himself, because he took no crap from anyone, and because he took care of his men.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: Louie Roy
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:41 AM

He was the first president that I had the honor of voting for and 64 years later I still believe he was the greatest president the USA ever had past or prsemt


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 11:40 AM

When I was young, there were many supposed 'jokes' making fun of him or his family. As I grew and learned about him, I realized that the attempts to ridicule him were because he was so different and basically honest, and thus hard to manipulate. One can disagree with some of his decisions, but not with his motivations.

He was a maverick long before McCain & Palin tried to co-opt the term.

We need more folks in politics with Truman's basic attitude. The last major one was William Proxmire. There are still voices with echoes of Truman, such as Barney Frank and Henry Waxman...and a few more....but the "system" largely prevents most of them from having much hope of running for president.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 12:58 PM

Truman was the only president I ever met. My Poly Sci class from Grand View College (in Des Moines) went to Independence, MO, on a field trip to the Truman Library, and the man himself gave us a short "news conference" talk, with questions and answers. We chortled when he called our professor "young man," since the prof was at least twice our ages.

Famous Trumanisms -- "the buck stops here" (and he meant it) and
"I don't 'give 'em hell;' I just tell the truth about the Republicans, and they think it's hell."

And his threat to beat up the music critic who panned his daughter Margaret's singing was pretty entertaining.

But boy, was he right about people looking to hire the Office by hiring the Man.

Hell, even the Republicans have tried to co-opt old Harry (with little success, I'm glad to say). As I recall, Reagan used to quote and praise the man, all the time pretending that his party hated HST with a passion possibly only surpassed by their hatred of Bill Clinton (they're working up their ire at Obama, but haven't reached full boil yet).

Harry S. (or "S" if you want to open that can of worms) Truman -- I miss him.

Bob


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 01:14 PM

you beat me to the quote Songbob.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 01:21 PM

A teacher once threatened me, when I was about 9 years old, with "disciplinary action" because I objected when she expressed a political opinion that I considered unfairly derogatory to Harry.

She relented when I suggested I might send him a letter and ask what he thought about her opinion. I think she actually believed he would be likely to respond.

He might have, but I guess she realized she was a bit outnumbered in the class (and among the rest of the staff) so I didn't have to send the letter. It's possible she actually found out that what she said was uninformed and fundamentally WRONG, or she may have discussed it with other staff and learned that "politicing" wasn't in the curriculum.

There was no further political discussion in that class that was worth noting, and I never found a reason to change my opinion of Harry.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 02:09 PM

In 1948, there was a major advance in civil rights with the desegregation of the military.

The story goes that the Joint Chiefs of Staff were gathered in the Oval Office waiting for the President to enter. They knew what the meeting was about, and they stood around with their heels dug in, their jaws set, and their eyes steely and cold. No way were they going to allow this to happen.

President Harry Truman walked into the office, issued Executive Order 9981, turned on his heel and walked out again. In less than a minute, the steely eyes went wide and dazed and the firm jaws were hanging slack. No discussion.

Truman knew his powers. He was—according to the United States Constitution—the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. The Joint Chiefs of Staff had their orders!

Contrast that with the similar meeting in the Oval Office when, once again, the Joint Chiefs of Staff were gathered with their heels dug in, their jaws set, and their eyes steely and cold. The meeting was about gays and lesbians in the military.

President William Clinton walked into the office, saw the looks on everyone's face, and said, "How hard are you guys going to fight me on this?"

Very hard, it turned out. After hours of discussion, argument, shouting, and desk-pounding, the best Clinton was able to get was "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

And as I see it, President Barack Obama is doing the same sort of thing with Congress in trying to put across his policies. Great intentions, but—trying to build consensus and playing "Mr. Nice Guy" just isn't going to work when so many members of Congress are primarily concerned with seeing to it that Obama fails. Not just that his policies fail, but that he fails.

Harry—where are you when we need you!??

Don Firth

P. S. Please, Mr. President—read about how FDR dealt with the Depression (despite the raging and screaming of the Right), and borrow a leaf or two from Harry Truman's book. Two very effective Presidents!


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: Art Thieme
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 02:32 PM

AN ASIDE: Harry Truman was killed in the huge explosion / eruption of Mt. St. Helens.

Art


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 05:01 PM

Different Harry Truman, of course. As I recall, he ran an inn on Spirit Lake on Mount St. Helens. Geologists, who were monitoring the mountain and felt sure she was gonna blow any minute, told him he'd better pack up and get out. But Harry said that he'd lived on the mountain all his life, man and boy, and it would never hurt him.

Well . . . comes 8:32 a.m. on Sunday morning, May 18th, 1980.

When the whole thing was pretty well over with, not only were they not able to find any trace of Harry Truman, they weren't too sure where Spirit Lake was anymore.

Both Harrys were crusty buggers and pretty darn stubborn.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 06:58 PM

"If you want to have a friend in Washington, get a dog" HT..


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: kendall
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:57 PM

He was a Taurus. He wasn't stubborn, he had firm opinions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: GUEST,Seth from Olympia
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 04:12 AM

first president I was aware of. My parents hated him. I thought that he must be some kind of terrible wizard. Good man, for aall that, though I wish that he had not agreed to drop the bomb, found the CIA andNSA and basically establish the national security state that we been living with for the past 60 years. Wish he had pushed health care through when he had a chance, Love it that he intergrated the military, thereby changing the social and cultural life of this country.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: kendall
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:39 PM

He had more integrity than all the presidents since Carter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:56 PM

Well, nuthin' can top the Capt's initial post but, as per usual, the ol' hillbilly has his own Truman story...

I think it was around 1954 and my dad was workin' for Ford Motor Company as a district rep and that meant that all kinda of situations presented themselves and a 1946 Lincoln Limo that Truman was driven around in became available thru one of the dealers my dad knew and...

...one thing led to another and or next door neighbors, the Bookers, ended up buying Truman limo and so I kinda grew up ridin' in the back of it, always with half a dozen kids, while my mom and Nan Booker sat up front with the electric window up between the front and back to separate us kids from them...

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: DougR
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 12:31 AM

Yes, I do, Kendall, and I think he was a great president. He was reviled by many at the time, but I think history has proven him to be one of the best.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 01:39 AM

Great story, Bobert!


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: kendall
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 07:12 AM

Doug, it's nice to hear from a republican who is able to recognize his value regardless of his politics.
One of my right wing friends just compared Bush to him! She should look up the meaning of integrity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 05:09 PM

Great old car, mouse... Musta weighed in at 6000 pounds... Asw kids we never really gave it a second thought that a president had sat in the same seats we sat in but that was a long time ago when that kinda stuff wasn't quite as important... And to kids??? Not important at all......

I just remember all the space in the back 'cause it had seats which folded down from behind the drivers seat and about 6 feet of floor space with those seats not folded down so most of time all us kids were playin' on the floor of the car...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 06:48 AM

dig him up and clone him

No need of that. The US (and all other democracies) have no shortage of intelligent and good-natured leadership talents. The problem is to get one of them elected. Preferably, make it a team.

Truman knew his powers

Moral integrity in office must be fostered and controlled. It has been pointed out that there are some obstacles to HST's claims to sainthood. Nowadays we prefer "checks and balances", which however tend to dilute responsibility. The quest for a better system goes on.

My € 0.02.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 10:33 AM

Chicago
Harry Truman
Written by - Robert Lamm
From - Chicago VIII

    America needs you
    Harry Truman
    Harry could you please come home
    Things are looking bad
    I know you would be mad
    To see what kind of men
    Prevail upon the land you love

    America's wondering
    How we got here
    Harry all we get is lies
    We're gettin' safer cars
    Rocket ships to mars
    From men who'd sell us out
    To get themselves a piece of power

    We'd love to hear you speak your mind
    In plain and simple ways
    Call a spade a spade
    Like you did back in the day
    You would play piano
    Each morning walk a mile
    Speak of what was going down
    With honesty and style

    America's calling
    Harry Truman
    Harry you know what to do
    The world is turnin' round and losin' lots of ground
    Oh Harry is there something we can do to save the land we love
    Oh whoa whoa whoa

    America's calling
    Harry Truman
    Harry you know what to do
    The world is turnin' round
    And losin' lots of ground
    So Harry is there something we can do to save the land we love
    Oh
    Harry is there something we can do to save the land we love
    Harry
    Harry is there something we can do to save the land we love

    ©1974 Chicago Records, Inc.

After 36 years this song is as relevant as ever.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: pdq
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 02:47 PM

There is a serious effort by the Democrat publicity machinery to elevate Harry Truman to the position of "face of the Democratic Party".

They don't want that face to be Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton or Lyndon Johnson because the American people can't stand any of them.

Kennedy would be the logical choice, but his tax cuts were even greater than those of George W. Bush or Ronald Reagan, and Kennedy was an unabashed patriot. He would be too conservative to get nominated by the Democrats of today.

A recent poll said the "greatest living president" is George (H.W.) Bush with almost half the American people, George W. Bush second with almost 30%. That leaves about 23% for Clinton and Carter to split. Poor old Jimmy gets barely 6% despite his delusional claim to be the best living ex-president.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 04:12 PM

Truman gave the go-ahead for the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on the pretext that it would end the war sooner. I think that was a wrong decision and don't agree with it. The Japanese would have surrendered without having to usher in a nuclear bomb era. No one knows how soon they would have surrendered but the cost of Uranium on Hiroshima and Plutonium on Nagasaki was too great for humanity to bear.

If you dug him up today he probably would not have supported the START treaties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 04:20 PM

"A recent poll said the 'greatest living president' is George (H.W.) Bush with almost half the American people, George W. Bush second with almost 30%. . . ."

Jefferson said that the continued existence of democracy depended on an informed electorate. He must be doing about 7,200 rpm in his grave!

We are doomed!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: kendall
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 05:36 PM

I like Gorge H.W. Bush but his son should have been an abortion.

Great? on whose card? he started two illegal wars and ran this country into the ditch! Great, my fat Aunt Hilda.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 07:30 PM

Back in the late 60s, when we all wore various buttons (bought in 'head shops', many of 'em) I found one which said:

Come Back, Truman-All Is Forgiven

(Stringsinger- I respect your opinion, but I very much doubt that it was a "pretext"... that it would end the war sooner. We could debate it forever, and it seems we will, but the real answer to that will never be certain. It is claimed that we had good evidence that Japan was prepared to defend 'home' to the last, and I think it is likely that Truman based his decision on that. Even so, surrender was not immediate...even after Nagasaki. If that test in New Mexico had failed and we HAD invaded Japan, we might not have been so lenient after the war and...and...and... speculation is just a game...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: kendall
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 07:41 PM

Read up on the body count at Okinawa and that will tell you what invading the home island would have been like.
They started it and we finished it. Does anyone think if they had had the bomb that they wouldn't have used it? Dream on!

I had a shipmate who was from the Philippines and he had a horrible scar on his neck. He said it was given to him by a Japanese soldier who cut his throat and left him for dead.
He also told us how the Japanese soldiers used Filipino babies for bayonet practice.
Truman was right.The Monday morning quarterbacks are wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 07:48 PM

Well, like I have said in the past here, if the US had told the Japanese that it was going to be conducting a test somewhere off shore of Japan and dropped "the bomb" over water, the psychological effect would have been the same, sans the deaths... I agree with Strings that both bombings over population centers was completely messed up...

As for Truman being the new face of the Democratic Party??? Why do the Dems need that??? All they need is for Obama to grow some balls and stand up to the Repubs...

(But, Boberdz... That would be, ahhhh, confrontational...)

Yeah, it would...

I mean, the Repubs are like the emperor with no pants... No one on the Dem side is standing up to0 some rather ignorant people who think they know stuff... We have an entire political party running on emotionalism and no real motivation to pitch in and help solve the countries problems... Call 'um on it, Mr. President... Call 'um on START... Call 'um on tax breaks for the rich... Call them yer haelth care reform...

Yeah, Obama needs to get his head out of Lincoln's posterior and use Truman as an example, sans the nukes...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 11:01 PM

It 'may' be that using the nukes once put the images in peoples heads and helped keep the Cold War cold. I don't know...we cannot know. In 1945, we were worn out with war and sentiment was toward "do ANYTHING to show 'them' how we feel about Pearl Harbor and all that followed."
I can barely imagine what it must have felt like to have both parts of that war over in just 4 months or so.. (I was only 6, but I have spoken to many who simply believed that Truman made the best of a hard decision.)
We can now read much of Truman's diaries about those days, and it seems clear that he BOTH struggled with the decision AND decided it was the best one under the circumstances. Then, later he reflected on it and decided NOT to allow it again. (see links on the page)

Hindsight is not always 20/20.... we just need to work harder to try to avoid having to ever be in the position of having to make that decision again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 06:16 AM

If you are interested in HST's postwar international record, google
Repatriation Stalin Truman.
More important, however: Find out what you want today. For a political analysis, Oh whoa whoa whoa is somewhat meagre, though I love Robert Lamm's music.

My next € 0.02.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember President Truman
From: kendall
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 07:10 AM

We must judge a person by their time, not ours.

Dropping a bomb offshore would have done nothing. They were set to fight to the last man, woman and child.Better dead than to lose face. That's why they attacked us in the first place.
Sure, war is hell, people get killed and those who died in Hiroshima are no deader than those who died at Pearl harbor.


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