BS: The Delusion delusion.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 01:30 PM

The continuous accusation that Dawkins or anyone who doesn't agree with the harmful aspects of religion is sheer unmitigated prejudice and is an arrogance of its own.

I read Dawkins as being not arrogant but open to ideas even from those who vehemently disagree with him. He is a scientist foremost and as a result has a natural and wholesome curiosity about the ideas he finds swirling around him. As a scientist, he investigates with penetrating laser logic and discipline. He will protest against child abuse and the indoctrination of children, or the brickbats thrown at atheists by pompous popes. The world doesn't need another Torquemada. My reading of Dawkins is that he is sympathetic with the plight of those who are responding to their indoctrination and cultural bias. He has religious friends (mainly liberal) and shows his respect to them as people.

Deepak Chopra's attack on Dawkins is not convincing, forged in the galium spoon of empty double-talk with new agey sauce and so-called misty and foggy "spiritual" values.

People ought to read Dawkins carefully before heaping their prejudices on him.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Amos
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 02:40 PM

Sheeshe!

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 04:11 PM

it is a great honour that a great intellect such as yourself should deign to talk to,or about a low level such as i.
nevertheless foolestroupe that does not make me a science denier if i agree with scientists of another view .
but tanks for trying to communicate simply.

steve-i think i expressed the question badly on rereading it,though admittedly my understanding of the physics is lacking.however i believe that any change conferred by mutations has not been demonstrated to lead to macro change.if you can cite otherwise,i,m sure you will.

stringsinger-of course dawkins would not seem combative from your perspective,though i understand some other evolutionists do find him OTT.Ican only speak from what i have heard him say[not just soundbites]

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 11:32 PM

"it is a great honour that a great intellect such as yourself should deign to talk to,or about a low level such as i."

Sarcasm will get you nowhere. I once believed as you, then I opened my mind, studied, and learned.

You can side with who you want, (I won't mention even that Austrian Corporal), but the output of those alleged 'Scientists' reveals that they are only using emotion, not 'Science' when they claim they have 'proof'.

Their 'proof' relies on thinking similar to The Law of Fives. It is inconsistent, self contradictory, uses the same term for different inconsistent things, and conveniently and willfully ignores stuff that shoots them down in flames.

Their convolutions that have to be gone though to prove things such as that the Grand Canyon was formed in a matter of a few hours are laughably inconsistent, even to one such as I who is not an expert in matters of Geology.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 08:56 AM

yes foolestroupe there was some sarcasm in light of your previous post, but not entirely.i was also making a bit of humour[did,nt work!]and honest admittance of your greater learning,though not agreeing with your conclusions.
i,ve no idea who this corporal is,
seems the rest of your post alleged falsehood on the part of creationists.do you imply they dont have phds,or is it simply because they come to opposite conclusions.
its one thing to allege consistencies,and worse, claim wilful errors-but its another thing to demonstrate as such.
perhaps you should learn some moderation from darwin;as i quoted earlier.
some of the creation.com site does touch on emotional issues eg abortion,racism,demicide,but some of it is hardgoing[for me]technical stuff.
not sure that i,ve read "proof" much,though "evidence"probably is used as a reguler word on the site.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 06:44 PM

As I said before Pete, they may even HAVE the best intentions, but when you are trapped in a "Law of Fives" type intellectual loop, you cannot even see that you are deluding yourself, because everything you think only keeps reinforcing and 'proving' the false assumptions you start off with. Some more cruel than I might even feel that levels of sanity might be on the limits....

While I do have a great sense of humor (see my Fooles writing on the web), when it comes to pure intellectual processes juggling abstract concepts, I'm rather like Mr Spock from Star Trek - no 'sense of humor' at all... :-P .. also I am more of a Generalist Inter-Disciplinarian than a Specific Expert - I know a lot about a little, but a little about a lot. I'm also blessed (or cursed - I say that in the Kingdom of The Blind, The One Eyed Man will be persecuted as a troublemaker!) with a level of intellectual capability that is definitely 'not average' - but I still do keep on trying to improve the thinking machine... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 02:15 PM

when i read your quote on other thread i thought you had gone for moderation!5x5

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 04:52 PM

I'm starting a collection...

evoloution (and related ideas)

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 03:57 PM

i dont think i need to worry that my reading in evolutionism might be too superficial after that!.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 04:16 PM

The opposite of Evolution is not Creationism. Creationism is a myth, Evolution is real.

Mythology has its place though. Joseph Campbell has made that point well.

Campbell maintains that myths help us learn certain cultural mores that are valuable.
"Thou Shalt Not Kill" is one that is an important dictum. Whether a Jesus really or physically said this or not, is irrelevant. It is still an important injunction.

Some myths help society and others are destructive. As long as we recognize myths as myths we can pick and choose accordingly.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 05:11 PM

"stringsinger-of course dawkins would not seem combative from your perspective,though i understand some other evolutionists do find him OTT.Ican only speak from what i have heard him say[not just soundbites]"

A lot depends upon how you hear what someone is saying.

I think any kind of evangelism is destructive and Dawkins is not an evangelist. I think he would allow people to make up their own minds about their beliefs.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 07:39 PM

"If religion is as much a fairy tale as you make it out to be, why does it mean so much to so many?" Quote, the movie, The Last Templar

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 07:46 PM

You're struggling, Ed. It doesn't matter if the world population bar one bloke in Pott Shrigley believes in God, if they're wrong they're wrong. Weight of numbers is neither evidence nor good argument and you know it. Of course, I know how desperate you must be to have to clutch at that particular straw. Hear the sound of a distant drummer, Ed. Avoid the herd mentality.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 08:23 PM

There you go again, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 08:27 PM

Steve was goated (aka herded) towards a comment twice in the same day. Likely not much of a life record, but a first for me.

"If you want to see him do his thing, simply pull a theist string" (Heehee).

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 09:53 AM

You have a peculiar idea of what constitutes little victories, Ed. I have no idea what you're talking about. Still, I understand that you do need some scrap or other to cling on to.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 10:04 AM

I suppose the biggest delusion is the belief by the contributors to this thread that the other side will actually understand the points they're making.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 10:25 AM

yep... my cartoons sure didn't impress anyone... ☺

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 06:00 PM

even if every scientist bar one was an evolutionist it would,nt make it fact.and you know it!
i like the story of the communist official lecturing russians on atheism.at the conclusion an old man asked to say a few words.
he simply said"Christ is risen"
"he is risen indeed"thundered back the audience.
i cant verify the accuracy of the story but it illustrates the firmness of belief of millions who see nothing illogical in believing in God.
if even darwin can concede that his research can be concluded by others opposite to his own conclusions,[origins ed1 p3]why do the atheists on these threads push their dogma so fervantly?

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 08:19 PM

If every scientist bar one was an evolutionist it wouldn't make it a fact. Why, I agree with that wholeheartedly! You're on my side at last! You recognise that sheer weight of numbers does not make any sort of argument in favour. Very good. So you'll have to concede that all that firmness of belief by the gullible millions doesn't strengthen by one jot the argument for God's existence. So you need evidence, just like I do. Unfortunately, I have it in abundance and you have none.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 03:55 AM

I haven't even found evidence that I exist - Cogito ergo cogito ipse esse.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 01:29 PM

i am happy for you to demonstrate the alleged non existence of God,and gracious of you to take the ball in your own court.christians often attest to their experience of a sure faith[though admittedly sometimes questions]as the result of the Spirit of God in them,as scripture explains.
present your evidence and we can discuss it.
seasons greetings if i dont get back over christmas.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: John P
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 03:55 PM

i am happy for you to demonstrate the alleged non existence of God

No evidence, for any normal purposes, equals non-existence. How many times do we have to say this? If you want to propose and claim as rational the existence of something for which there is no evidence it is up to you convince others you are not just talking our your butt. Mind you, I'm completely fine with you believing in god and not needing any evidence. Just don't try to say that it is a rational belief, or that I should accept anything about it on your (or anyone else's) say so.

As soon as a believer gets into a debate about proving the existence of god, he or she has already lost the debate. Belief is, by its nature, irrational. Your only recourse is to say, "Yes, I believe in God, even though there isn't any clear reason for me to do so. So what?"

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 04:54 PM

If you can prove the existence of God, then it's not God. As I've said before, I heard Richard Dawkins on Radio 4 earlier this year making a good case for the existence of God.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: John P
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 07:52 PM

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

-Lao Tzu

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 04:27 PM

well john;if you read the previous post,it appears that steve claims to have evidence in abundance that there is no God.
most of us who do believe ,do so with reason and with evidence though none that you accept.that does not make us illogical just because it,s not good enough for you.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: John P
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 06:04 PM

It all depends on your definition of God, Pete. Tell me what attributes you claim for God and we can talk about it.

Here's some questions:

Is God conscious in the way that we usually understand the word?

Does God communicate with people using words and understandable concepts?

Did God write the Bible?

Is God really three-in-one? What does that mean?

Was Jesus a god?

Did Jesus rise from the dead?

Was Jesus the result of a virgin birth?

Does Satan exist and concern himself with the doings of mankind?

Does God actually respond to the specifics of specific prayers?

Do miracles, of the type described in the Bible, still occur? If not, why not? If so, can you give some examples?

Should be Bible be taken literally?

Why is there so much discrepancy between the message of the Old Testament and the New? Which should a Christian pay attention to?

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 07:08 PM

No, I said that I have evidence in abundance for evolution whereas you have no evidence whatsoever for the existence of God.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 04:40 AM

'It is their very contrariness that makes these books so fascinating, yet also a stumbling block for latter-day atheists. If the Bible is supposed to be God's "truth", His word, faithfully recorded and handed down to His chosen people, then how is it that we have the Wisdom books, which, as Alter writes, "are, in different ways, worlds apart from Genesis, Deuteronomy ands Prophets?".

'The Adversary, known in the King James Bible as "Satan", is a mysterious presence; not the Devil, the sum of all evil, of the later scriptures, but more like a zealous factory inspector, whose function is to test the mettle of the divine creation, Job'.

Salley Vickers reviewing 'The Wisdom Books: Job, Proverbs, and Ecclesiastes - A Translation with Commentary' translated by Robert Alter.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 06:41 AM

John P... asks... >>>>>>It all depends on your definition of God, Pete. Tell me what attributes you claim for God and we can talk about it<<<<<<<<.

Here's some questions:

Is God conscious in the way that we usually understand the word?
(ans Yes and of course man and woman were made in Gods image)

Does God communicate with people using words and understandable concepts?
(ans Sometimes through the prompting/conviction of the Holy Spirit and sometimes by direct spoken word)

Did God write the Bible?
(ans All Bible scripture is by inspiration from God)

Is God really three-in-one? What does that mean?
(ans The Trinity or three in one is God the Father, God the son and God the Holy Spirit who are three pieces of the same pie.. ie all the one God)

Was Jesus a god?
(ans Jesus was God(part of the three in one) in human form)

Did Jesus rise from the dead?
(ans If He didn't then I talk to myself often. The resurrection is the key to us being able to relate to God through Jesus.... Jesus said "The only way to the Father is through me" if he had remained dead then there would be no way to the Father)

Was Jesus the result of a virgin birth?
(ans Yes He was His birth and life on earth were pure and faultless)

Does Satan exist and concern himself with the doings of mankind?
(ans satan does exist and is currently Prince of the earth)

Does God actually respond to the specifics of specific prayers?
(ans To those who know Him, God answers many kinds of prayer... not always in the way expected but always answers)

Do miracles, of the type described in the Bible, still occur? If not, why not? If so, can you give some examples?
(ans Take a look at 'Mikes Healing' here.... 'Mikes Healing' and Testimony. that is of course a personal healing)

Should be Bible be taken literally?
(ans Yes, because it is the history of the people and God)

Why is there so much discrepancy between the message of the Old Testament and the New? Which should a Christian pay attention to?
(ans Obvious answer is that CHRISTians are followers of Christ so the message of the New Testament is the one to live by... The OT is the history and prophesies leading to Christs coming but give some indication of the 'nature' of God) PS OLD Testament and NEW Testament should give a clue there..... both different Covenants with God.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: John P
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 09:57 AM

Georgiansilver, why do you believe all this stuff? Does any of it make any sense to you in any normal, logical way? If so, can you explain it? If not, how can you stand being inside your brain with such a big part of your life not making any sense? Are you having some sort of experience that makes it all seem worthwhile? If so, can you describe your experience?

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 10:43 AM

John... if you click on the link in my previous post and read both my testimony and my healing, they explain why I cannot doubt Gods existence.. I was left in no doubt whatsoever..... Many things happen in my life to confirm it all for me time and time again... but actually proving what has happened is another story. Anything I 'claim' has happened can be given a logical explanation by someone who doesn't believe or have my Faith.. but until a person comes into a 'relationship' with the living God for themselves.. they cannot understand the supernaturalness of such a relationship. I don't claim to be better than anyone else and I often make mistakes... because of my freewill in life. But I do believe I have something special that anyone else who wants can have........ We all have choices. With regard to making sense of it.. It makes far more sense than anything else in my life ever has.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 07:11 PM

georgian silver;great to have someone else at last on these threads that,s a bible believer.
john-how can you say that a big part of someones life does,nt make sense when they have clearly demonstrated why it does make sense to them.thats not to say that theological concepts can be fully explained.not every science concept can be fully explained either,can it?
steve-reading back your post i dont think i read it wrong ,but i accept that may not be what you intended to convey.
however i consider both connected as evolutionism essentially attempts to explain everything without a God-and i doubt you have abundant evidence for it either.as i said before if your hero[whom you urged me to read ]concedes his findings can lead to the opposite conclusion how is it you can be so dogmatic.
hope you had a good christmas/solstice.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Amos
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 07:31 PM

Wait...God is a PIE???

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 08:30 PM

evolutionism essentially attempts to explain everything without a God"
Evolution explains life on Earth (and possibly wherever else it exists) in all its beauty and complexity. It does not explain why sugar dissolves in my tea or why a stone goes plop when I drop it into water. It attempts to explain things by means of reason based on evidence. God cannot enter into this because God cannot be arrived at by reason or evidence. It has nothing to do with God and does not set out to exclude God. It's just that the best explanation by far of life on Earth is arrived at without having to consider a God at all. In fact, hw would be an intellectual impediment were he to be included. And I said explanation, not guesswork, whimsy, flights of fancy, resort to magic or belief in what foolish people of old, clinging to ancient, flawed texts and tradition, have told you.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Amos
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 08:55 PM

The patterns of existence and their intricate connection at the micro, sub-micro and macro levels can easily lead one to the belief in intentionality as some kind of harmonizing and coordinating force in the universe. And there's nothing wrong with that perception, nor should it be suppressed or downtrodden. Materialist scientists don't know what to do with that sort of perception, but that's neither here nor there.

Of course, jumping from that to a fat old pedophile in the sky is a bit of a leap, probably less defensible...

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 30 Dec 10 - 03:21 AM

Pete. I have been on these threads for a number of years but am not necessarily as vocal as in the early days. I come on to learn more about Folk music from all parts of the world and only now contribute to BS if I have a funny quip for a particular thread...or something more serious to say on another. The interesting thing for me is I believe in evolution inasmuch as the world is constantly changing and we as humans have to adapt to that... and have done... and are still doing. However, when you come to a knowledge that there is something bigger than you out there.. your life changes... if you want it to.. and for the better. But as I mentioned before.. until people find God for themselves, they won't believe......until they experience what He has to offer for themselves they will always doubt. The debate will continue as neither believers or unbelievers can prove beyond a doubt that God does or does not exist. Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 30 Dec 10 - 04:11 AM

"a fat old pedophile in the sky"

If that's the god you believe in, then it's no wonder you don't believe in God.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Dec 10 - 04:33 AM

Georgiansilver, I wasn't going to jump into this thread, BUT, what you just posted echos something very similar that I posted in the 'God Delusion' thread.

GfS "Believing in God is hardly a choice, to those who have had an experience, in which 'God', makes itself plain and obvious...and yet, still, NOT as portrayed within the confines of a denominational slant. Its bigger!....and unless you've experienced that experience, or one that comes to you, in whatever form it takes, I'd just be another person, giving a 'rap' that another may not understand."

GfS: "All I can say, from those who have, and from personal experience, is Love will communicate to those who it wishes to manifest itself to, in different ways, to those who 'hear', The best way I know, is to ask, like I said. ..after that, let that spirit, communicate to you, the way it knows. It will be personal, deeply personal...and it will show you the rest of the way through.
If I give you a 'formula', I become just another restricting, constricting, and conflicting denomination...and honestly I'm NOT into starting another damn religion!!
That being said, once the journey picks up, pay attention. It may lead you into places you'd never suspect, places you'd suspect to reject, down a path you can't detect.
...but once you pick up the phone, don't think the call is over..once you hang up!"

Georgiansilver, I believe you.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 10 - 06:17 PM

However, when you come to a knowledge that there is something bigger than you out there.. your life changes... if you want it to.. and for the better. But as I mentioned before.. until people find God for themselves, they won't believe......until they experience what He has to offer for themselves they will always doubt.

Nothing original here. Just the usual last-ditch gambit from believers: "I can't give you any evidence whatsoever, and I can't make you believe me, but I've had these 'experiences' that leave me in no doubt that God is there and doing it for me, and I only hope that one day you will also find what I have been so fortunate to find..."

Bullshit. Where's your evidence? And what sort of God would reveal himself to lucky old you but not to blighted old me? Like freemasons scratching the backs of the in-crowd? The attitude expressed here, in the italics above, is the very essence of delusion. Unjoin your hands, get off your knees, open your eyes and look at the real world instead of the sky. It's far more wonderful than anything your God could ever achieve for you.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 30 Dec 10 - 06:43 PM

Steve Shaw..... the evidence of what God has actually done in my life is very obvious to the people who know me well and have seen the transformation ... I don't need your approval and I don't have to accept your disapproval... What I will not do is be drawn into some puerile playground talk with you about what I do or don't believe as your nature is obviously a naturally critical one. Just because you don't believe something doesn't make it a lie or untrue! You have a different perspective and that's all!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Dec 10 - 07:02 PM

Dave:

Och, mon, whurs yer sensayewma?


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 10 - 08:15 PM

If the evidence is so obvious, let's have it. Naturally, anyone predisposed to your way of thinking will possibly be less inclined to be critical and questioning. Personally, I regard the inclination to question and be critical to be very healthy. I doubt that your God, in his wisdom, would approve of your calling your sceptical critics "puerile." If there's anything puerile here it's the puerile acceptance of the outlandish claims of visions, revelations or miraculous life-changing interventions by God that can not be corroborated nor which were experienced by anyone other than the claimant. Most rational people would simply call that delusional. Hey, some of us manage to get our kicks from reality.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 03:45 AM

Steve, in my post on 29th Dec 6.41am. I put a link to a website where my testimony and my healing are outlined in as open and honest a way as possible. Once again, anyone who knows me will confirm that I am not a liar of fabricator of my own truths.... Read what I put and make your own mind up but hey! it served to change me from what I was to what I am and that is a miracle in itself. I don't need to prove it to you for it to be true of course but hey if you get your kicks from your reality... I sure get some huge ones from mine too. But who are you to question mine... I may not be able to give you conclusive proof of Gods existence but after my experiences, you could certainly not convince me that He doesn't exist, no matter how critical or questioning. Perhaps one of us is deluded and maybe one day all will be revealed... until then we'll go on doing our own (or Gods) thing as we choose.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 09:31 AM

Being delusional (about one facet of life, I hasten to add) is not at all the same thing as being a fabricator or liar.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 10:50 AM

as i have said before steve there is plenty of evidence that confirms our faith.but there will maybe never be enough for you even if we could add more to what we have already spoken of-but i wish you well.happy new year.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 01:33 PM

There he is again, the terminally ill arguer frothing at the mouth, about that which he, either knows is true, but is running away from, or just as ignorantly blind as a bat.

Steve, you asked for proof...a witness steps forward, and gives his account, which you apparently know NOTHING about, and you stupidly REFUSE to listen to his account, even though he is giving you his witness! Who are you, to tell him that something he experienced, and apparently has a knowledge of, that he is wrong?????

That tells me, according to your 'logic(?)' that ANYTHING you talk about, that wasn't seen or experienced, by anyone else, but you, is false!

You might shut up and listen, for a change, and at least make a feeble attempt, once you get past your self-absorption, to take in the experiences of another human being...who apparently, has experienced something broader, than your 'shut-off' little life!
If you talked to a millionaire, who was telling you his story, of how it came to be, would you not believe him, just because you were broke??????????

If he said he experienced these things, and has knowledge of what he is talking about, and also says that you'd have to experience what he experienced to fully know what he is explaining, that sounds a lot more credible to me, than some yapping snip, who has no apparently embarrassment over the fact, that he(you) is making a complete delusioned fool out of yourself...in public, as well!

And the DELUSION is YOURS....you are an 'expert' in 'knowing' that someone else's life's experiences are to be 'judged' as non-existent.
HOW FUCKING DELUDED IS THAT???!!!!?????!!!!????.....and YOU base IT on NOTHING!!!!!!

Grow up!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 02:19 PM

1. Calm down.

2. Don't be so damned insulting.

3. I have read the accounts, thank you.

4. For about the two millionth time, I do not ask for proof.

If that's the effect Christianity has on you, you can keep it!

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 02:43 PM

Happy New Year to Christians and non-Christians alike..... may you be truly blessed with whatever you deserve during the coming year... and here's hoping it's all good! Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: The Delusion delusion.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 02:59 PM

Steve Shaw:
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 02:19 PM

"4. For about the two millionth time, I do not ask for proof."


From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 10 - 08:15 PM

If the evidence is so obvious, let's have it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 09:31 AM

Being delusional (about one facet of life, I hasten to add) is not at all the same thing as being a fabricator or liar.

Steve Shaw: "Hey, some of us manage to get our kicks from reality."

Time to get some 'kicks'?????
It is in deed YOU, who is delusional!

Happy New Year, Mike!

GfS