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Origins: Lolly Toodum
DigiTrad:
LOLLY TOODUM
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Subject: RE: Origins: Lolly Toodum From: GUEST,Jan Hauffa Date: 18 Jul 22 - 03:27 PM Riley Shepard's "Master Book of American Folk Song", though perhaps not being the most credible source (see https://blog.archive.org/2019/02/27/riley-shepards-encyclopedia-of-folk-music-is-finally-available/), contains another variant of the lyrics and some interesting remarks on the origins of the song. Quoting Volume 4, pp. 178 in the PDF (pp. MB-1964 in the author's own numbering) available from https://archive.org/details/masterbookofamericanfolksong00shep : "No. 370 DOLLY DEE DUM DAY also known as As I Went Out This Morning The Fit's Come On Me Now I Must and I Will Get Married Lollie Trudom Lollie Trydom Lolly Tee Trudom Lolly Tee Dum Lolly Too Dum Lolly Trudom Mother and Daughter Polly Holman's Wedding Rolly Trudam Rolly Trudom Rolly Trudum In this song we have an English-American version of an ancient French theme. Song probably came to the United States by way of Canada, where the ancient theme of a girl determined to get married is still very much alive in French- Canadian folk song. American versions date hack to at least the 1830s. We know this because Washington Irving commented on a version of the song in his notes, made while he was on tour in 1832. Irving's notes were published in Southwest Review, XIX, 449. In the version below, as in all others, the story unfolds in dialogue form. References [omitted] Dolly Dee Dum Day As I went out this morning to take the pleasant air, Dolly dee dum, dee dum, dolly dee dum day! As I went out this morning to take the pleasant air, I overheard a mother scolding her daughter fair, Dolly dee dum, dee dum, dolly dee dum day! You'd better wash them dishes and hold your wicked tongue, etc. I know you want to marry, but you are much too young, etc. Oh, pity my condition the way you do your own, etc. For more than fourteen years now I've had to live alone, etc. Supposin' I was willing, where would you get your man, etc? Oh, lordy, lordy, mama, I'd marry handsome Dan, etc. Supposin' he should spite you like you done him before, etc? Well, lordy, lordy, mama, I'd find a dozen more, etc." |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Lolly Toodum From: GUEST,Jan Hauffa Date: 18 Jul 22 - 02:43 PM No need for a JSTOR account; past issues of the "Southwest Review", including the one that contains the article in question, can be downloaded for free from the Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/sim_southwest-review_1934-07_19_4 Quoting from the introduction by the editors, who transcribed Irving's handwritten manuscript: "In 1832 Irving made his journey west to Missouri with Commissioner Ellsworth [...]. The plunder of this pilgrimage and of his reading was his three books on the Arkansas-Missouri lands, on the expedition to Astoria, and on the exploits of Captain Bonneville; but in his notes still survive other relics of this relatively unknown phase of his writing. [...] This sheaf of notes, 'Polly Holman's Wedding,' is a crude narrative of Kentucky, foraged, after Irving's immemorial custom, from some fellow traveler, and set down in the form of rough memoranda. [...] In many portions the manuscript is almost illegible, and errors have probably crept into this transcription, in which the editors have followed in so far as possible the exact orthography, punctuation, and spelling of Irving. [...] The original notes have the date '1805.'" Quoting from the manuscript itself: "During the night John Vertruce [?] who was considered a great singster called upon to sing— after much reluctance, he shut his eyes stuck out chin nose with great self satisfaction sang song Mother & daughters conversation about getting married. Oh daughter daughter daughter Oh hold your foolish tongue Im sure you cannot marry Because you are too young Daughter Im 16 years & old and that you will allow I must and will get married For the fits come on me now— O daughter daughter daughter Where will you find a man O there is John the Plowman Will have me if he can He called me dearest [?] honey While milking of my cow I must & will get married For the fits come on me now." Footnote by the editors: "Professor H. M. Belden, of the University of Missouri, states that this ballad still survives in Missouri." |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Lolly Toodum From: GUEST,Bob Coltman Date: 18 Jan 17 - 06:20 PM Looking again at the Belden and JSTOR material so far as I can see the latter, I believe I erred in drawing the conclusion that "Polly Holman's Wedding" was the name of the 1837 song. Far from it, the name of Irving's article is "Polly Holman's Wedding," but as I can see only the first page of it, what the song may be called is more than I can guess. JSTOR members, anyone? Can you help resolve what the 1837 song text and title are? Bob |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Lolly Toodum From: GUEST,Bob Coltman Date: 18 Jan 17 - 06:12 PM The big news first. We appear to have an early 19th century precursor to this song, and it's called "Polly Holman's Wedding." H. M. Belden, Ballads and Songs Collected by the Missouri Folk-lore Society (1940, 1955) p 266, says, "The oldest record of it in this country that I have noted is that found in [Washington] Irving's MS notes made, presumably, during his southwestern tour in 1832 and published by Leisy and Williams in Southwest Review XIX under the title 'Polly Holman's Wedding.'" "Polly Holman's Wedding" as noted by Irving is at JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/43462119?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents I haven't a JSTOR account, but anyone who does would do a service by finding ways to get a copy up on this thread. It will be good to see just how close the versions three-quarters of a century apart turn out to be. Happy hunting! Lacking a view of it, it appears we do have an 1837 source for "Lolly/Rolly-Tru-Dum." Meanwhile, the earliest commercial recording of the song, adding to the field recordings listed in the Traditional Ballad Index, is by Uncle Dave Macon (1938), whose "My Daughter Wished to Marry" (Rolly Trudum) is a different version of the same song—note its title is the same as those recorded by Horton Barker and May Kennedy McCord, whoever learned from whom. It's one of a class of mother-daughter dialog songs, like "Whistle, Daughter, Whistle (Mother I Would Marry)." It can be traced back well before Belden in 1910. Note, if searching, that Gus Meade's comprehensive "Country Music Sources" lists it under Polly-Tru-Dum-Day; the P may be a misprint for R, since it cites Macon's 1938 recording "My Daughter Wished to Marry." Belden (1910) cites the song (apparently not knowing what else to call it) as "Mother and Daughter": As I went out one morning to get the morning air, I saw a mother talking to her daughter fair. Lol-i-trudum-trudam-i-dey Oh hush up, my daughter, and hold your civil tongue, You talk of getting married, you know you are too young, Supposing I were willing, where'd you get your man? Law, law, ma'am, I can get my handsome Sam. Lol-i-trudum-trudam-i-dey Supposing he was to slight you, as he has done before? Law, law, ma'am, I, I can get a many more. There's tinkers, and tailors, and boys that hold the plow. They all want to marry, and why not marry now? Lol-i-trudum-trudam-i-dey In other words, a shorter, but similar version to Burl Ives's, which due to Ives' influence became the folk standard from about the 1950s onward. Bob |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Lolly Toodum From: Airymouse Date: 18 Jan 17 - 09:42 AM When I was a good deal younger, my wife and I visited Richard Chase in Banner Elk NC. Richard told us that he had changed "hush your chattering tongue" to "hush your flattering tongue," because "chattering tongue" didn't make any sense. But you can find "hush your chattering tongue" in THe Taming of the Shrew. Also the verse There's pedlars and tinkers and boys behind the plow Lolly True dum true dum, Lolly True dum day There's pedlars and tinkers and boys behind the plow Lordy mercy mammy, THE FIT COMES ON ME NOW Richard told us that THE FIT COMES ON ME NOW was the name of a dance tune. I suspect that the verse Oh, pity my condition, just like you would your own For fourteen long years I've slept in bed alone. was too rough for some and got Bowdlerized. |
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Subject: ADD Version: Lolly Toodum (Burl Ives) From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Jan 17 - 11:21 PM OK, so here's the Ives version, from the Golden Years of the Wayfaring Stranger box set. LOLLY TOODUM As I went out one morning to take the pleasant air Lolly toodum, toodum, lolly toodum day. As I went out one morning to take the pleasant air I overheard a mother a-scoldin' her daughter fair Lolly toodum, toodum, lolly toodum day. You better go wash them dishes, and hush that flatterin' tongue For you know you that want to get married, that you are too young. Oh, pity my condition, just like you would your own For fourteen long years I've been livin' all alone. S'posin' I were willin', where would you get your man? Lordy mercy, Mammy, I'd marry that handsome Sam. S'posin' he should spite you, like you done him before? Lordy mercy, Mammy, I could marry forty more! There's peddlers and there's tinkers, and boys from the plow, Lordy mercy, Mammy, I'm a-gettin' that feelin' now. And now my daughter's married, and well for to do Gather 'round, young fellers, I'm on the market, too. |
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Subject: Origins: Lolly Toodum From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Apr 07 - 04:51 AM It might be worth taking a look into this song and its variants. Here's quite an entry in the Traditional Ballad Index: Lolly-Too-DumDESCRIPTION: Daughter comes to mother, asking to be married. Mother, after pointing out she's young, asks who she will marry. Daughter says, "Handsome Dan" -- or any of forty more if he's not available. (The daughter marries, and mother looks for a husband herself)AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1910 (Belden) KEYWORDS: marriage loneliness courting mother FOUND IN: US(Ap,So) REFERENCES (13 citations): Belden, p. 266, "Mother and Daughter" (1 text) Randolph 370, "Rolly Trudum" (2 texts plus an excerpt, 1 tune) Randolph/Cohen, pp. 299-300, "Rolly Trudum" (1 text, 1 tune -- Randolph's 370A) Hudson 134, pp.280-281 , "Rolly Trudam" (1 text) Moore-Southwest 189, "Lolly Trudom" (1 text, 1 tune) Owens-1ed, pp. 214-216, "Rolly Troodum" (1 text, 1 tune) Owens-2ed, pp. 122-123, "Rolly Troodum" (1 text, 1 tune) Boswell/Wolfe 83, pp. 133-134, "Handsome Sam" (1 text, 1 tune) Lomax-FSUSA 12, "Lolly-Too-Dum" (1 text, 1 tune) Lomax-Singing, pp. 126-127, "Lolly Too-Dum" (1 text, 1 tune) Chase, pp. 138-139, "Lolly Too Dum" (2 texts, 1 tune, but the first is "Whistle, Daughter, Whistle") Silber-FSWB, p. 344, "Lolly-Too-Dum" (1 text) DT, LLYTOODM* Roud #441 RECORDINGS: Horton Barker, "Rolly Trudum" (on Barker01) May Kennedy McCord, "Rolly Trudum" (AFS; on LC12) Pete Seeger, "Lolly Too Dum" (on PeteSeeger32) CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "I Must And Will Get Married (The Fit)" (theme) NOTES: This song is named for its chorus, "Lolly-too-dum, lolly-too-dum-day." Thematically, it is identical to "I Must And Will Get Married (The Fit)," but the stanza form is different enough that I have separated them. (Roud, of course, lumps them.) - RBW Last updated in version 3.5 File: LxU012 Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2016 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. Here are the Digital Tradition lyrics. I wish I knew where this version came from. It says "recorded by Ives," but the lyrics on the Ives recording are slightly different. LOLLY TOODUM As I went out one evening to take the pleasant air Lolly toodum, toodum, lolly toodum day. As I went out one evening to take the pleasant air I overheard a mother a-scoldin' her daughter fair Lolly toodum, toodum, lolly toodum day. Oh, go and wash them dishes, and hush your flatterin' tongue I know you want to get married, and you know that you're too young. Oh, pity my condition, just as you would your own For fourteen long years I've been sleepin' all alone. S'posin' I should let you, where would you get your man? Why Laws a'mercy, Mammy, I'd marry that handsome Dan. S'posin' he should slight you, like you done him before? Why Laws a'mercy, Mammy, I could marry forty more! There's tinkers and tailors, and boys from the plow, Why Laws a'mercy, Mammy, I'm a-gettin' that feelin' now. And now my daughter's married, and well for to do It's gather 'round me, fellers, I'm on the market, too. Recorded by Ives @question @marriage @family filename[ LLYTOODM TUNE FILE: LLYTOODM CLICK TO PLAY RG |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lolly Toodum From: GUEST,Johna Date: 04 Apr 07 - 04:31 AM As I went out one evening to take the pleasant air...I over heard a mother a scoldin her daughter fair |
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Subject: Lolly toodum, toodum, lolly toodum day From: GUEST,Sandra Parker Date: 05 Dec 01 - 08:46 PM I remember a verse or two and the chorus of this song. Does anyone know the rest of it? Thanks! As I went out one morning to take the morning air, Lolly toodum, toodum, lolly toodum day. As I went out one morning to take the morning air I heard a mother talkin' to her daughter fair. Lolly toodum, toodum, lolly toodum day. You better go wash them dishes and hush your chattering tongue Lolly toodum, toodum, lolly toodum day. You better go wash them dishes and hush your chattering tongue I know you want to get married, but that you are too young. Lolly toodum, toodum, lolly toodum day. |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics? Lolly doo dum From: Yann (ydebonne@earthlink.net) Date: 12 Apr 97 - 08:55 PM I can't believe it! Thank you all very much! Much appreciated! Cheers! y |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics? Lolly doo dum From: rich r Date: 12 Apr 97 - 06:53 PM One must not forget that the Smothers Brothers used that same non-sensory "lolly" line in their classic rendition of " (I Fell Into A Vat Of) Chocolate" rich r |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics? Lolly doo dum From: dick greenhaus Date: 12 Apr 97 - 11:48 AM At the risk of sounding monotonous, it's in the database. It's risky searching for exact matches of nonsense syllables--[Lolly Doo Dum], f'rinstance, won't find [Lolly Toodum]. On t'other hand, a search for Lolly or Loll* will turn up what you're looking for. As will married, or [too young]. |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics? Lolly doo dum From: Ralph Butts Date: 12 Apr 97 - 09:16 AM From Burl Ives' "Sing Along Songbook" c1963 Franklin Watts, Inc. (companion to 6-record album). Listed there as "Lolly Tu Dum". "The dialogue tradition of singing which had come over from the British Isles persisted in songs that originated in the Hills or on the Frontier. Early marriages were of necessity the rule for young pioneer girls, partly because of the lack of women and partly because of the difficulty of the life they were forced to lead. Not unlike "Billy Boy" in content, with a distinctively humerous American quality, this song is from Harlan County, the famous Kentucky region where Cecil Sharpe found so many variants of British folk songs." In "Folk Song: U.S.A., The 111 Best American Ballads", c1947 by John A. and Alan Lomax, it is "Lolly-Too-Dum". They have a similar writeup, adding a lot of comments on the times, not directly related to the song. In both cases, the same 8 verses are printed, with the expected slight variations. .......Tiger |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics? Lolly doo dum From: mim Date: 12 Apr 97 - 03:00 AM Don't know how my source note ended up in the middle of the lyrics. It should have been at the end. Don't try singing it. |
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Subject: ADD Version: LOLLY TOO DUM From: Murray Date: 12 Apr 97 - 03:00 AM It may be a Canadian song, and was recorded by Ed McCurdy many years ago now. Something like this: LOLLY TOO DUM As I went out one morning, to take the pleasant air, Lolly too dum, too dum, lolly too dum day. As I went out one morning to take the pleasant air, I overheard a mother a-scolding her daughter fair, Lolly too dum, too dum, lolly too dum day. [Similarly:]
You'd better go wash them dishes, and hush that flatterin' tongue,
Oh pity my condition, just like you would your own,
Supposing I were willing, where would you get your man?
Supposing he should slight you, like you done him before?
There's doctors and there's lawyers, and folks of high degree,
There's peddlers and there's tinkers, and them that follow the plough,
So now my daughter's married, and well for to do,
-- There may be another stanza missing. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: LOLLY-TOO-DUM From: mim Date: 12 Apr 97 - 02:55 AM LOLLY-TOO-DUM
As I went out one morning to take the pleasant air,
"You better go wash them dishes and hush that clattering tongue,
"Oh, pity my condition as you would your own,
"Yes, I'm seventeen and over, and that you will allow—
"Supposin' I was willin', where would you get your man?"
"Supposin' he should slight you like you done him before?"
"There's peddlers and there's tinkers and boys from the plow.
"Now my daughter's married and well fer to do,
"Lordy mercy, Mammy, and who would marry you?
There's doctors and there's lawyers and men of high degree,
"Now we both are married and well fer to be. |
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Subject: Lyrics? Lolly doo dum From: Yann - (ydebonne@earthlink.net) Date: 12 Apr 97 - 01:42 AM Does anyone have the lyrics to a song I think is called, "Lolly Doo Dum." The only parts of the song I can remember was something like, "You'd better go wash them dishes and hush that flattering tongue, ahhhh, lolly doo dum, doo dum, lolly doo dum day...." Thanks. |
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