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UK Folk Club Survey

GUEST,Graham 24 Nov 10 - 05:24 AM
Arthur_itus 24 Nov 10 - 05:40 AM
GUEST,Tom Bliss 24 Nov 10 - 06:41 AM
GUEST,Square the Circle 24 Nov 10 - 07:09 AM
GUEST,Working Radish 24 Nov 10 - 07:34 AM
Arthur_itus 24 Nov 10 - 08:13 AM
Rob Naylor 24 Nov 10 - 10:30 AM
GUEST,Tom Bliss 25 Nov 10 - 04:36 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Nov 10 - 05:33 AM
breezy 25 Nov 10 - 07:44 AM
GUEST,Graham 25 Nov 10 - 07:59 AM
GUEST,Tom Bliss 25 Nov 10 - 03:48 PM
GUEST, Tom Bliss 27 Nov 10 - 08:40 AM
Tootler 27 Nov 10 - 07:08 PM
stallion 28 Nov 10 - 04:39 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 28 Nov 10 - 05:52 AM
Arnie 28 Nov 10 - 06:12 AM
TheSnail 28 Nov 10 - 07:51 AM
Dave the Gnome 28 Nov 10 - 11:43 AM
TheSnail 28 Nov 10 - 02:07 PM
Busy Lizzie 28 Nov 10 - 02:46 PM
Phil Edwards 28 Nov 10 - 04:18 PM
Phil Edwards 28 Nov 10 - 04:27 PM
Arthur_itus 28 Nov 10 - 05:05 PM
JHW 28 Nov 10 - 05:49 PM
bubblyrat 28 Nov 10 - 06:41 PM
GUEST, Tom Bliss 29 Nov 10 - 04:28 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 Nov 10 - 04:57 AM
GUEST,Tom Bliss 29 Nov 10 - 05:10 AM
GUEST,Working Radish 29 Nov 10 - 06:59 AM
Arthur_itus 29 Nov 10 - 07:55 AM
Jack Campin 29 Nov 10 - 09:51 AM
Dennis the Elder 29 Nov 10 - 10:51 AM
Les in Chorlton 29 Nov 10 - 12:41 PM
Busy Lizzie 29 Nov 10 - 04:29 PM
Phil Edwards 29 Nov 10 - 05:52 PM
Folknacious 29 Nov 10 - 07:49 PM
GUEST,padgett 30 Nov 10 - 10:45 AM
Andy Jackson 30 Nov 10 - 12:07 PM
GUEST, Tom Bliss 30 Nov 10 - 12:25 PM
GUEST,PeterC 30 Nov 10 - 12:28 PM
Arthur_itus 30 Nov 10 - 12:46 PM
Folknacious 30 Nov 10 - 12:58 PM
GUEST,Square the Circle 01 Dec 10 - 10:30 AM
Arthur_itus 01 Dec 10 - 10:33 AM
GUEST,Square the Circle 03 Dec 10 - 05:55 AM
Gavin A 03 Dec 10 - 07:56 AM
GUEST 06 Dec 10 - 11:08 AM
GUEST,Susie 06 Dec 10 - 02:26 PM
Gavin A 07 Dec 10 - 04:58 PM
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Subject: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,Graham
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 05:24 AM

Please bear in mind that this is aimed at Folk Club users in the UK (Thanks for your understanding)

I've set up a survey to canvass opinions of Folk Club users (Organisers/Audience members/Performers/etc)

I did a similar exercise for the club I'm involved in a year or so ago - got some useful stuff out of it.

I thought that if we could collectively ask our members/regulars/guests to give their opinions/points of view we can all benefit from the results.

Click on the link at the bottom to access the survey -

I've set the closing date for 31/03/11 after which I will make the results available (This to allow for details to be forwarded to any quarterly publications)- I'm sure that the outcomes will give us all something to get our teeth into - and hopefully help us to continue providing platforms for and performing this music that we love so much.

I'm not a professional survey writer and can't guarantee that I've addressed all the angles - but if this works I'm sure that the responses will more than ensure that any future repeat efforts are 'all embracing,

Click Here to Access Survey



https://sites.google.com/site/folkclubsurvey/

"Oh would some power the gift give us, to see ourselves as others see us!"

Graham

PS I'm not taking credit for the Burns quote'


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 05:40 AM

Graham

You might like to look at this project that Tom Bliss carried out. It is an excellent piece of work by Tom and will answer all your quetsions etc.

http://www.turnstone.tv/folkwise1.html


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 06:41 AM

I suspect Graham knows about that already Arthur.

Graham, I'm so delighted that you're doing this - I'd love to have done it myself but ran out of time. Let's hope you get some really useful data that will help many efforts in in many ways.

10/10

Tom


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,Square the Circle
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 07:09 AM

Graham, I have completed your survey, please send me a copy of the results when finished if possible.
Terry
Newport Folk Club


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,Working Radish
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 07:34 AM

I attend a singaround/session most weeks and a folk club regularly but quite rarely. The trouble with that is that most of the questions seem to assume a "performer and audience" folk club setup, which is completely unlike the singaround/session setup - so if I answer with the venue I attend most often in mind all those questions will be meaningless. I think a different set of questions for sessions/singarounds is needed.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 08:13 AM

Maybe there could be a question at the end of each page called

OTHER

with a text box to explain the other.

I agree with you Radish, the question's on the first page are too specific and if you don't fit in to any of those questions, you can't move on to the next page.

For example, If you are an ex organiser or used to attend, but circumstances do not allow you to get to any at the moment, then the first page does not cater for that.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 10:30 AM

Same here, Radish. Of the ckubs I attend, the main one has no Guest nights etc...it's always a singaround format, so stymied on page 3 as "don't know" isn't an answer I want to tick.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 04:36 AM

Hmm, not much response, which is a shame, because at some point it will be useful to have this sort of data when they start spending money on the arts again, or if anyone needs figures to use when negotiating with PRS etc.

Graham, perhaps it would be a good idea for you to say who you are and what you plan to do with the data. It would be a great shame if people failed to help you out in fear that you had some kind of nefarious purpose.

Also, the comments above are valid. It's always a good idea to include an 'n/a' option.

I'm assuming the intention is to obtain consumer views, rather than data on who does what?

If you want the latter, maybe you need to identify the club or session (Name / Host venue), so you can collate the results. Otherwise you may get 50 people all referring to the same club, and many clubs not represented, but you might think you had a representative sample.

Tom


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 05:33 AM

I think the 'audiences dwindling' question is far too leading and I have said so. It does NOT apply to all clubs.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: breezy
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 07:44 AM

I gather this survey is aimed at Folk 'Club' Users

Therefore sing-arounds do not constitute a 'club' as such

I assume a Folk Club' is where you Pay to go in , sit down and listen to others.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,Graham
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 07:59 AM

Thanks for the responses to the survey (148 so far) the survey seems to be well received and the comments are, in the main, constructive.

If anyone is suspicious of my motives - they needn't be

I am the organiser (secretary) of Gregson Lane Folk Club
A member of the band Trouble at' Mill
I'm a Quality Engineer by profession and a part time College Lecturer (Guitar for Beginners)

In my capacity as a Quality Engineer - I come across many surveys and survey results. I realise that the questions are not 'All embracing'(as is the case in most surveys) that's why I asked (Last Question) "Are there any questiong that you feel should have been asked but were omitted from this survey?)

This will enable any future surveys to be more comprehensive.

Of course I will make the results available to everyone when the survey is finished

I put the closing date as 31/03/11 to allow invites to be published in any quarterly magazines - however this doesn't stop me publishing interim/latest results at any time before the close.

https://sites.google.com/site/folkclubsurvey/

Let me know if you would like me to do that


Graham Dixon


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 03:48 PM

Ha - guessed it was you Graham.

148 and counting - very good!

I think the other data someone might need eventually would be figures for how many clubs/gatherings there are - and whether purely participatory, or with guests - and if so how many per year, typical fees, numbers attending and so on. And also to what extent those figures have changed over the past , say, 15 years.

The AFO/Mrs Casey figures for Folk Festival Spend etc have proved invaluable when convincing councils of the value of a festival etc. If we could do something similar for folk/acoustic gatherings it might help in lots of ways, some of them as yet unknown.

I do have notes around this, based on phone calls to organisers over the past 10 years and other inputs, but I wasn't keeping records for use as empirical evidence - merely so I'd know if/when to try to blag another gig!

But that would have to be a slightly different survey.

Tom


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST, Tom Bliss
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 08:40 AM

Simon Hall says this on the fRoots board:

"This is a good initiative, but it will depend on where it goes soliciting for answers. Attitudes of people who have been going to clubs for 40 years and don't like change will be different to those of people who've stumbled on them more recently. Also, how do you get the views of people who've tried them and not liked them to find out why this was? (no, I don't have the answer to that question either!). One possibly important question I noticed he didn't ask is the age of the respondents, to see if attitudes vary per age group.

One question I thought was loaded was the one about hotels for club guests. "Paid accomodation", to differentiate between even a simple B&B with a proper bed rather than the organiser's floor, might have been more subtle - "hotel" possibly implies large expense."

(with permission)


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Tootler
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 07:08 PM

Breezy has highlighted a fundamental problem with all these threads about folk clubs. Namely what is it that constitutes a folk club and, more importantly, the unstated assumptions about what a folk club is. Breezy has at least made his (her) assumption clear, though I don't happen to agree with him/her. However anything s/he now says can be taken in the context of his/her assumptions.

A great many of the exclusively or largely singaround venues still call themselves folk clubs so to say that only somewhere where you pay to go in and sit down and listen to someone else performing can be called a folk club is, in my view, incorrect. If someone calls themselves a folk club and the music that goes in is folk or folk related music then, as far as I'm concerned, they are a folk club regardless of whether they hire performers for their audience or are 100% participatory. Many clubs do a bit of both, with regular singarounds and paid guests interspersed. Folk clubs I know or know of local to where I live vary from 100% concert venue to essentially singaround with occasional guests with most coming somewhere in between.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: stallion
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 04:39 AM

It seems to me that the fundamental problem with dwindling numbers, and folk in general is poor PR, too many jokes that take the piss and go unreplied, it's a free shot that is acceptable where lampooning a disability or race isn't. Last week the pub that has hosted our Friday night session for years closed, we moved to another pub last friday night and a crowd of people came in and asked what type of music it was and stayed to the end vowing to come back next week. It would be interesting and useful to survey Jo public and find out things like do they know anything about traditional music, have they ever listened to traditional music and if not why not. For my money, for what it is worth, there are too many po faced people strangling traditional music, it should be a joyful and fun experience and often it isn't, oh and dreadful floor singers who should stick to singarounds, at least there is a break between their songs. To many who know me know that the last comment was totally uncharacteristic of me but i took two people to the local club singers night and they left after two dreadful floor singers in a row. Whilst I believe everyone should participate even I thought it was a bit much. Oh thread creep !


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 05:52 AM

" ... i took two people to the local club singers night and they left after two dreadful floor singers in a row."

Yes, I've also come to the reluctant conclusion that dreadful floor singers are dragging many clubs down. Please note that I'm not talking about beginners here (yes, everyone's got to start somewhere blah, blah, blah ...) but people who have been dreadful for years and never improve. The most obvious thing to do, for a start, is to ban song sheets and notebooks; if you're too idle to memorise the words you shouldn't be inflicting yourself on other people! And yes, a few people may have bad memories drone, drone, drone ... but I believe that, for the vast majority, memorising the words is a learned skill and one that you need to master, along with singing in tune, devloping a sense of rhythm etc., etc., if you have aspirations to sing to an audience.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Arnie
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 06:12 AM

Graham - I've done the survey and it does seem to cover all bases. The only extra question I would like to see is 'Does your folk club have a website? Our club website is relied on by most of the members, especially as guests sometimes change or are cancelled at short notice after the local folk gig guide has been published.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: TheSnail
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 07:51 AM

Perhaps a few other questions might have been -

Are the numbers at the clubs you go to dwindling?
If so is that because people are being driven away by the poor quality or because they are growing old and dying?

Are the folk clubs you go to dominated by out of tune singers singing Beatles songs out of notebooks accompanied by out of tune guitars despite the fact that they have spent ten minutes tuning them?
If so, why do you keep going there?

Why don't you try running a folk club yourself so you could set ypur own standards?


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 11:43 AM

I don't think any clubs are dominated by out of tune etc. etc., but it's nice to see that the problem has, at long last, been recognised by some who used to refuse to accept it exists:-) Anyhow, thread creep aside, I think Shimrod does make a valid point but I don't know if it would come out in the survey. While there is not, fortunately, a dominance, or even majority, of really bad acts, they do indeed have an effect.

It is well known amongst those in customer service that a bad experience is often longer lasting than a good one and human nature being what it is we will tell more people about the bad than the good - sad but true. The poor act, even if in the minority, will cause a bad impression of a club in general. As people get less and less tolerant this will get worse.

Hopefully something will come out of the ongoing survey and long lasting discussion on this very subject and enable organisers to do something positive about it.

All the best and good luck.

Cheers

Dave


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: TheSnail
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 02:07 PM

David el Gnomo

It is well known amongst those in customer service that a bad experience is often longer lasting than a good one and human nature being what it is we will tell more people about the bad than the good - sad but true.

Certainly seems to be true on Mudcat.

The marketing department, on the other hand, will generally go around telling people how good the product is, something that quite a few on Mudcat, even those actively involved, seem reluctant to do.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Busy Lizzie
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 02:46 PM

I have had a little dabble on the survery - some questions are a bit ambiguous and I'd be very happy to supply more info!

I run a little club here in Mid-Cheshire once a month which sort of grew from a gathering in my house to some really fantastic sessions in a local pub that became regular, we have a variety of visitors and regular guests alike. All welcome!!

Do have a look at my website we have a visitor next weekend - would love to see any of you! I do appreciate it may be a rather long way for a some of you! Hotel accom. available if you let me know I can book it for you at another pub up the road! And it wouldn't be the first time my sofa has gained an occupant and my caravan has 'put up' a few well known and some not so well known musicians! One or two people have brought camper vans and stayed over too! And we are right on the canal too - moorings right outside the door! (well nearly!) I think I better make a new posting really!

Liz    my website!


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 04:18 PM

Do have a look at my website we have a visitor next weekend - would love to see any of you!

I had a look at your site, but I couldn't find any information about where next Sunday's jollifications will be happening (and mid-Cheshire is a big place). Could you give us a clue?


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 04:27 PM

Many clubs do a bit of both, with regular singarounds and paid guests interspersed.

Good point. The singaround I go to is completely unlike what I think of as a folk club - no admission charge, no raffle, no nominations by the MC, no facing the front, just a room with people facing into the middle & turn-taking around the room. But it's perfectly possible to have a club where most of those things happen but the club is still recognisably a FC rather than a singaround. I think the big differences are whether there's a charge on the door and whether the MC plays a big role in proceedings or just works his way around the room.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 05:05 PM

Does it really matter?

If somebody decides to run a music evening on a regular basis and you go along and enjoy it, that's all that matters.
If you don't enjoy it, don't go.

Music in all forms is thriving and many people enjoy it. Why do folkies need to justify themselves?


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: JHW
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 05:49 PM

'I gather this survey is aimed at Folk 'Club' Users
Therefore sing-arounds do not constitute a 'club' as such'

IMHO they would.

Just done the survey but alas 'server is taking to long too respond'

J


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: bubblyrat
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 06:41 PM

Marlow Bottom Acoustic Club is a Folk Club ; it's a club for people who like any kind of music ,including Led Zeppelin,that is performed in a "folk" style (if that's the right word).We don't have "guest spots" ( unless you'd like to come along for nothing, Martin--Richard--Eliza--Jon--et al !!),nor is there an admission charge, although we FORCE attendees to cough up a pound or so for a raffle-ticket,the monies thus obtained ammortising the cost of our annual Christmas Dinner. So we ARE a "Club" ,IMHO. And well worth a visit,too !! ( See our comprehensive website).


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST, Tom Bliss
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 04:28 AM

Hmmm,

I seem to have fallen foul of the 'answer once' system. Having not been able to finish answering before I just wanted another look through before I did so, and found I couldn't go back to the start, so merely clicked through to the end - and then couldn't get back in (quite rightly, of course). I also wanted to save some grabs of the pages so that I could - if necessary - cross-reference more easily with Graham at some future date. Anyway, that's one survey submission you have there, Graham, which is not worth the paper it's not written on.

Just two thoughts on a couple of the comments above.

There is no question that taken as a simple expression of common usage (rather than semantic or academic definition), across the UK as a whole, the term 'Folk Club' does apply to a spectrum of gatherings, from the purely participatory (aka singaround club, song session etc.) to what are essentially folk concert venues, where only booked performers play. That is a simple matter of fact.

(It should also always be remembered that the term 'Folk Club' is also typically used to include many gatherings and concerts which follow the traditional (though not necessarily 'Traditional' ;-) 'folk club' format, and/or who book music which is termed 'folk' by some - but which eschew the words 'folk' and/or 'club' in their name).

Not many fold clubs of any description are legally clubs (i.e. with actual membership).

IF I remember correctly, Graham showed cognisance of this on the first page.

What I think did slip through this particular net (not that this is an problem given Graham's presumed objectives) is the tune session. These are almost never called folk clubs, but there is some overlap with mixed sessions and indeed clubs that habitually run tune sessions before during or after the main event - so I for one would have been intrigued to see a survey which included them. But no matter.

David El G's point about 'dwindling' is interesting. From what I can gather, 'consumption' of 'folk' music seems to be on the rise in the UK, but attendance at 'folk clubs' is - nationally - dwindling. So it's legit to ask the question in this survey - (though an additional question to find out what's happening at the specific club being surveyed might have been useful).

Tom


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 04:57 AM

Fair point, Tom. I will accept from those who know better than I that attendance, on average, is decreasing. It is difficult to see the big picture when you only attend one or two clubs that seem to be exceptions!

Cheers

dave


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 05:10 AM

I should perhaps have been slightly more specific. (This is just my best guess, ok?)

Participation Gatherings - up a bit

Performance Gatherings - down quite a lot

Total - down overall.

BUT this is very difficult to assess, because there's nowhere safely to draw any kind of line.

Top end of 'Performance Gatherings' bleed out into "non-folk-club 'folk' (whatever THAT means) gigs" - where the figures are healthy and even booming - (specially if we take it as far as Mumford and Sons - and some, believe it or not, do).

And at the other end we bleed out into acoustic nights/open mic territory, where the numbers are also up.

But taken in the round, sticking a pin into the middle of what most people understand by the term Folk Club, yes.

Dwindling.

Tom


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,Working Radish
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 06:59 AM

Does it really matter?

ShorterLonger Arthuritus: "You have said something which interests you but does not interest me. I am personally offended by this fact and wish to share my feelings with the world."

Of course it doesn't matter, any more than folk clubs themselves matter. I just found it interesting that my immediate reaction to Graham's survey was that my regular singaround obviously didn't qualify as a FC - and yet I have been to FCs which do almost exactly the same thing (mostly singers' nights, mostly sitting facing into the room, etc). I think it's taking money on the door that makes the biggest difference (we still have a good few ordinary pub punters wandering in, and sometimes get a song out of them).


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 07:55 AM

Working Radish
I am not sure what you are on about.

"Does it really matter" has got nothing to do with anything you have posted or said.

My comments were about encompassing all forms of music and stop trying to squeeze them into the name "folk"

If something works, no matter what type of music, that is great. Why does it have to be called folk.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 09:51 AM

I started filling the survey in, then abandoned it when I saw it took no interest in sessions (which are my main public activity in the folk scene). I do go to concerts and guest nights as well, but the survey didn't seem designed to elicit an accurate picture of what I do with my time or what musical activities I value. And I don't thionk it would be any better a fit for any of the people I usually play with, or the punters who listen to us.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 10:51 AM

According to the great Wikipedia, "A folk club is a regular event, permanent venue, or section of a venue devoted to folk music and traditional music. Folk clubs were primarily an urban phenomenon of 1960s and 1970s in Great Britain and Ireland, and vital to the second British folk revival, but continue today there and elsewhere".
I see no reference to payment to be a member or to attend the club! The club that consists solely, or mainly, for the purpose of a regular sing around is, in my humble opinion, a Folk Club. They are, with all other "regular events" mentioned in the definition above, the very base from which folk music grows. Elitism is not good, the great range of folk clubs present in the UK is the strength on which folk music relies on to flourish.
Obviously all regular meetings to perform or listen to folk or traditional singing and/or folk or traditional music, must be included in the definition.

Dennis


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 12:41 PM

I filled it in thinking of our local Folk Club ( singers face the audience all pay to go in) which is generally full and busy. It doesn't look as if it will gather much.

I am involved in a The Beech Singaround (1st & 3rd Wednesdays) and The Beech Beginners Tune Session ( 2nd & 4th Wednesdays) that Mr Raddish mentions above. Going into 4th year for songs and 3rd for tunes soon. I think the variety helps as does the room and a great collection of two overlapping groups of people.

L in C#


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Busy Lizzie
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 04:29 PM

Back to Pip's posting - where's the info?!

- sorry for delay haven't been back on here for a few days, I did update with a new post with info but it's probably dropped off the front page now, I seem to have lost my Big Lock Folk club page off my website and hadn't realised! I am so good doing my website! I'll get onto that ASAP! Thanks for pointing it out!


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 05:52 PM

Obviously all regular meetings to perform or listen to folk or traditional singing and/or folk or traditional music, must be included in the definition.

It's not a matter of definition so much as of the questions Graham is asking. All the questions about guests and 'guest nights' are irrelevant to singarounds and sessions - and all the questions about 'singers nights' are irrelevant to sessions. All the questions about admission charges (concessions, free entry for floor-singers etc) are irrelevant to any club/session/singaround that doesn't charge for admission. Put all that together and you've got an awful lot of questions which make sense for any club which charges on the door and sometimes books guests, and makes no sense at all for any club/session/singaround that doesn't do those things.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Folknacious
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 07:49 PM

All the questions about guests and 'guest nights' are irrelevant to singarounds and sessions

I think Folk Clubs are places where you pay some money to go and hear the sort of music they play in places called Folk Clubs, but not too much money because you also have to put up with floor singers. The guest artist sleeps on the organiser's camp bed.

Sessions and singarounds aren't folk clubs because they're all floor singers so you don't pay any money and everybody sleeps in their own bed.

Concerts in small arts centres aren't Folk Clubs, even though the room's often the same size, because you pay more money so as to not have to listen to floor singers and the artist gets proper accomodation.

Seems clear enough to me. But did this apply in 1954?


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 30 Nov 10 - 10:45 AM

I agree that there are differences between Folk Clubs and sessions/singarounds

Folk clubs tend to look to having regular guests with a good standard of "floor singer" and tend to charge "club members"

sessions/singarounds tend to be unpaid flexible yet arranged meetings of like minded people

and then there are Concert venues where paid guests are paid to "entertain" whatever the definition is! and are not always called Folk Clubs ~ that's enough for one day!
Ray


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 30 Nov 10 - 12:07 PM

Then there are those gatherings that never charge entry, never book guests, sing around the room, but are called .......Folk Club.
The Folk Club is whatever you make it, the title is also an easily identified description of what might be happening within.
I filled in the survey but did not submit it as so much was irrelevant or biased..e.g. why are audiences dwindling?


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST, Tom Bliss
Date: 30 Nov 10 - 12:25 PM

Well, it's true that some people do tend to define the term Folk Club according their own experience, but this is not always sufficient when looking at the national picture.

I have 69 events listed who call themselves "Folk Clubs" who never book a guest, and there are over 100 more who use the term but only have a very occasional booking.

There are also a LOT of singaround / song/tune/mixed sessions which would put their hands up to 'Folk' but not perhaps "Club.' That doesn't stop others thinking of them as FCs though.

I've also got about 30 which are purely Concert venues (no floor singers), but do have a committee and a raffle, and do advertise alongside folk clubs. Not all of them use the term Folk Club, but most would be included in any list of the same.

The ones in between vary enormously, with guests anything from once every two months to one every week. And these may be local heroes only, or just big names, or any other combination.

In some you'll mainly hear trad and/or trad-informed (specially in Scotland), in others you'll hear mainly Americana and acoustic pop.

It's a very VERY diverse picture - and all legit in my opinion

Tom


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 30 Nov 10 - 12:28 PM

What defines a folk club? I would say the use of a private space to which interested people can be admitted with or without payment of a fee. It becomes a concert if somebody is paid to organise it.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 30 Nov 10 - 12:46 PM

"It becomes a concert if somebody is paid to organise it. "

I think you will find there are quite a few organisers who run concerts, that never get paid. In fact they very often, use their own money, in one way or another.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Folknacious
Date: 30 Nov 10 - 12:58 PM

Well, it's true that some people do tend to define the term Folk Club according their own experience, but this is not always sufficient when looking at the national picture.

Seems like there are too many folk club theorists dancing on the head of a pin here, if you ask me. It'll be "I ain't never seen a horse running one" any minute now. I still think my basic ground rules hal a dozen or so posts above match how most people understand things. Especially as to be a "club" implies having members and mostly only those in the central model I suggested above have those.

Not that I'd join any club that would have me as a member, to quote Groucho Marx.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,Square the Circle
Date: 01 Dec 10 - 10:30 AM

As a subject I would like to keep this alive. The information it may provide I hope will be useful. I also hope many more people will provide information for this survey, to the best of their ability, that's all anybody can ask, don't worry about the perfect fit. It's just a few questions they don't need your blood type.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 01 Dec 10 - 10:33 AM

"they don't need your blood type"

Why not?


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,Square the Circle
Date: 03 Dec 10 - 05:55 AM

Keep it alive


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Gavin A
Date: 03 Dec 10 - 07:56 AM

Tried to fill this in, but couldn't provide the answers that seem to apply to me. I don't run a club, but a session with guests that's a kind of half way house. I also run other events that can't be called a folk club either. And then I go to a club that someone else runs...

So in answering the questions, which hat do I wear? What am I describing?

It's a shame - I'd like to contribute.

Gavin


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 11:08 AM

Then if not an organiser of a "Club" you are a user of a club, there are questions that fit that perfectly.


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: GUEST,Susie
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 02:26 PM

deja vue... PERFORM 1981.
I've still got the tapes somewhere....!


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Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Survey
From: Gavin A
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 04:58 PM

Certainly some of them do fit. But only if I say forget the stuff I'm involved in running - or I say forget the stuff I don't run. That's the issue. I could just decide for one or the other but then I'd be less informative...

Gav


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