Thought for the Day (August 31)

Subject: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: Peter T.
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 09:48 AM

Aug 31 --Although the park through which I wander first thing in the morning is a large park, with natural zones and a marsh, it is in the middle of a city. Perhaps it is this that always makes it seem as if the people I pass do not notice they are outdoors in a bit of nature. For almost all of them it is more like a green machine: like a great outdoor gymnasium or dog training centre. Perhaps the burden of September on the horizon is too grievesome, and it is of course 7 a.m. on a work day, but the walkers and joggers and the dog poop scoopers are all anxiously moving forward. No one dawdles; no one even just throws their shoulders back and relishes the day. No one slows down to watch the swans making graceful geometries in the lake. No one is sitting looking out at the arriving day.

It may be that this is just Toronto. Other parks in other cities have their own tone of human passage, in my memory, sometimes mingled with fantasy. When I have walked in London parks, everyone appeared to be testing out the grass for a cricket match later the same day; in Paris, everyone was taking a last stroll with their lovers before going home to their wives or husbands; in Vienna, people were clearly testing the workings of their internal circulating systems. And then there was Bombay, on the edge of the national park, where early in the mornings I took my walk, suddenly out of the most wretched of slums, filthy beyond belief, masses of small children in immaculate white clothes would appear, headed for a nearby primary school. Somewhere in that festering mess, without running water, and in tin huts held up by scavenged wood, their mothers had been able to do that, how, how, how? -- a daily act of such incredible heroism that every time I saw that little parade of shining children moving out of the park slum in the early morning, I knew I was seeing something sacred, and I could hardly breathe with awe at all that determination and mother love walking hand in hand up the dirt roads.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: annamill
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 10:44 AM

I think that I am going to enjoy "Thought for the Day" more than ever did before. We've released a dam of wonderful ideas and pictures. Thank you Peter. Under different circumstances, I'd have your children.

Love, annap

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 11:25 AM

If you saw a line of limos discharging their well dressed young occupants at an expensive public school in Toronto would you be seeing the same sacredness...or would the parents just be guilty of "keeping up with the Joneses?"

I think I do undertand your point Peter, but are you also implying that the standards of parenting have lessened to a dissappointing degree degree in the U.S., Canada, and other such more "civilized" countries? Unfortunately, I have to agree. There are many wonderful and dedicated parents all over the world, but our culture has reduced the percentage of good parents to a depressing degree.

I disagree with you that there was anything sacred in what you saw. It is the responsibility of every parent to do what they have to do under whatever conditions they live. It is the job; no more, no less. The Indian parents and the "Joneses" perform the same act. They do the best with what they have and they are striving to provide something better for their children. It is not sacred. It is the job. Parents are bound with the duty to rear their children to be responsible members of the society in which they live and to rear their own children in the same way. It is not sacred. It is the job.

But the work ethic has been decreasing in the United States for years and has now fallen to a low that would be hard to believe at the turn of the last century. And that work ethic has affected the "job" of parenting in the same manner. We no longer do the best nor do we give our most. Yes, some do, but that isn't sacred. They are just doing their job. Too many do not. The child welfare movement in this country tries to solicit community support for these failures with catchy slogans and phrases like "It Shouldn't Hurt To Be a Child" or "It Takes a Whole Village To Raise A Child." I understand the last phrase, but it's original African meaning is much different from the context we use it in now. It would NOT take an entire village if so many of the parents in this country acted in the time honored, but now virtually lost, tradition of parents. Nothing sacred. It is the job.

It wouldn't take an entire community to raise a child if so many in the community weren't violent, sadistic, uncaring, alchoholic, drug addicted, and undereducated. And sorrowfully, they are many times the "victims" of their OWN parents and are just passing on the "sins of the father." I was blessed with wonderful parents, and often, when I get to know the mothers and fathers of our foster kids, I know that there but for grace.......... There are almost two million children in foster care here, and for most of them, the die is already cast. Adoption is on the rise, but not for the children who could benefit the most.

I've got to stop..........this isn't a post, it's the prelude to a book! But it was a beautiful thought Peter and fuck you very much for posting it. I did miss the part about the heron dressed as Waylon Jennings though.....well, maybe next time.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: Peter T.
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:00 PM

Dear cp, I wasn't really implying any criticism of parents anywhere -- I was just remembering how moved I was by the struggle of these really desperate people, and their determination to do well by their children. I think sacredness can = the daily job. I don't mean that in an officially religious way necessarily. I am not sure if I have not stepped on to some tense American territory concerning what some seem to call a "family values" agenda. I did not mean to. I wasn't promoting an agenda. I was trying to imply that there is perhaps more holiness in the determination just to go on, that has to go on day after day in these cultures, without much reward except the belief that one's children may be able to be bettered, than in what people's usually think of as high-falutin sacred rituals.
I am confused by the tone and your second last sentence -- maybe I lack the idiom (is it a compliment?) -- I think maybe I have offended you as a hardworking parent somehow, and if I did I apologise.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: MMario
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:25 PM

'Spaw - judging by (my perceptions of)the tone of the above, I would have to say you DO consider parenting to be sacred....it is quite evidently more then a job to you. (But I think I also understand what you mean when you say "It's the job")

I have been very lucky. I am part of the "village" for a large number of young people, including 13 nieces and nephews. I am proud and honored to have been a part of their upbringing, and do not feel in any way that their parents have failed because they have shared their children with me. [The last said only because I DID have a couple express to me the thought that they had "failed" their child because he was so much more responsive in public to me then to them] Until very recently an inter-connected network of friends and relatives was the norm rather then the exception in child-rearing. My "extended" family crosses the continent. Thankfully, modern communication and transportation have allowed me to be a part of these youngsters lives, and for them to be a part of mine.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:25 PM

LMAO..........No Peter you certainly didn't offend me at all.....No apologies needed, except maybe from me! I assume you mean "fuck you very much"..........Yeah an idiom from an idiot, sorry. It's a phrase that has to be "heard" rather than read. It's one of the internet problems.......no tone, no inflection.....much as we often try to add it. Sometimes it just doesn't come across....The meaning in this case might be "Thanks for bringing it up because I like the subject, but I avoid discussions because I get wound up and I don't need that, but I love it anyway.".......not exactly right, but I hope you get the drift.

I'm not a family values zealot, but I believe deeply in the rights of children. There is no test to become a biological parent if the equipment functions. No training, no background checks, no psychological profiles, no license.........nothing. And we bring children into the world without the ability to care for them because we "cannot play God." What bullshit...saddens me ....... I look at the kids...what a waste.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: Peter T.
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:29 PM

That's a relief, Thanks 'paw.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:37 PM

And THAT Mario is in the BEST sense of the African phrase, but not how we tend to use it now. I'm glad you've had the experience you've had...THAT'S the way to do it! Keep it up and they'll be fine parents too and understand how to "use" their families to help solve problems.......Good job my friend!

Spaw--Sorry guys, too much time in the trenches I guess...

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: Allan C.
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:44 PM

Bless the beasts and the children

For in this world they have no voice,
They have no choice.

K. Carpenter

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: kendall morse (don't use)
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 03:05 PM

Only a mothers belief that her children will be exceptional keeps her from drowning them at birth ... Lazarus Long

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: kendall morse (don't use)
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 03:07 PM

Only a mothers belief that her children will be exceptional keeps her from drowning them at birth ... Lazarus Long

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 03:14 PM

Yeah Kendall, that's cute and witty and I've heard it before, but in point of fact the belief that ALL children ARE exceptional is needed by ALL parents in the purest form of the word "exceptional." As long as you interpret the phrase that way, hey...It's Great!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: Margo
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 03:26 PM

Here here, Catspaw!

MMario, It is normal for children to obey other people better than they obey their parents. :o) No kidding.

margarita

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: MMario
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 03:41 PM

margarita - I KNOW that....sadly, they didn't. A great number of parents don't know that...

Just as many women don't believe that a male can diaper, feed or bathe a baby. Or that a bachelor can rock a child to sleep without damaging it. Or that an adult can be as proud of/worried for/concerned about/supportive of an unrelated child as one related to them.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 04:22 PM

Mario I certainly agree.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 04:55 PM

Kids need someone:
to listen
and to care enough to shut off the tv
to read them a book
sing them a song
say no to overindulgence, such as the mom I heard on NPR yesterday who spent over $150 buying one back-to-school outfit for her grade school-aged child who insisted on the "in" brands of everything!

Kids need someone who is brave enough to teach them to resist peer pressure to look a certain way, wear a certian style, etc. regardless of family income; to teach them to rely on self for self love, self worth, self reliance; teaching them to earn, in wages or trade, enough to buy or do what they want, because of their own efforts, so they can proudly say, "I did this." In the long run, this child will have more confidence and respect for her/himself and others than any of the children whose parents indulge them for whatever reasons.

Of course, for children to have someone like that, our society needs to nurture the adults, too, to say no to expensive, shoddy childcare, non-existent wage and health benefit protections; to honour and support the adults who do choose to walk a different path by staying home, while at the same time honouring and supporting those who have to work outside the home. So many, especially the politicians, only seem to know how to do one thing and that is to point fingers. No matter who they are, they will always tell you it was someone else's fault that a kid fell through the cracks.(See story at the end of this message, please).

>I>CATSPAW: You may not want to read what follows at the end. It hurts and I don't want you to cry. I know you've already heard your share of these stories.

For a really encouraging story of hope for foster kids, click here to go listen to an NPR story about

"Hope Meadows: Brian Dampier reports that a few families in a small town in Illinois are trying to shake up the system of placing foster children. Nearly half a million kids are in temporary foster homes across the country...and many will NEVER go back to their birth parents or get adopted. But, the community of Rantool Illinois might have a solution. (6:30)"

It is well worth the listen. Here's the addy, again: http://search.npr.org/cf/cmn/cmnps05fm.cfm?SegID=57793.

*A little girl went missing, here, when her mother was sent to prison for various, non-violent crimes. When the Dept. of Family Services tried to track her down, they found her body wrapped in a blanket, in a plastic garbage bag in her mother's garage. She'd been kicked to death. The mother is now on trial. It is absolutely disgusting to see DFS and others scramble to explain how that one manage to happen, when the children were supposedly under their care.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 07:23 PM

Got my own horror stories Katmyluv...and I ran out of tears awhile back. Mostly Karen and I have gained a better understanding of the parents who perpetrate suck horrific acts and realize that once again there but for grace are the two of us. The key is to break the cycle, but the problem here lies more within the legislative and judicial systems than social welfare departments.

Children are returned to undesirable situations because parents meet a minimum standard. They are often removed again and returned again. Sometimes this process goes on through the entire childhood period. It's a disaster. Why do we do it?

Because the law of the land still views children as chattel. "Parents are entitled to their chidren as they are their other property," reads the code in almost every state. No judge has yet tried to interpret the 14th amendnent to benefit children, but as it says that citizens are entitled to the pursuit of life and liberty, it would seem that children should be covered. There are many cases pending, but evidently no judicial body will rule in favor of saying that kids in fact DO have a liberty interest under the 14th.

BTW, there are half a million in Permanent or Long Term foster and over a million more Temporary and Protective Custody at any given moment. Adopption statistics that are often looking so promising include the "Buy a White Baby" adoptions and foreign adoptions too. Don't even get me started on adoption............

And Ol Pete had SUCH a nice thought going there. Sorry Peter and again, Fuck you very much.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 10:23 PM

Last summer my wife and I took our 7 year old daughter in to yale for an emergency brain tumor operation..After a few days in pedeatric ICU we were ready for the big day>>The operation took 8 hours and I took myself for a walk up town to find some underware and being Sunday I also found a church >>>>Anyway sitting on the ground outside the church I saw a mother and father comming out with thier little boy of 6 who was crying >>>I think he wanted to drive home with daddy in the Rover instead of with mommy in the BMW and the parents were very put out...I just wanted to say to them how great it was to hear a healthty kid with a stong ego-force ..{Very diferent from some of the things one hears in the ICU unit.} Our children are such a gift!!!Sick or troublesome or wonderfull they are all part of the same gift...Elizabeth said later during the Chemo that "I think the faries and angels gave me this bump so I could find out just how strong I am"<<<>>>What a gift and an honor to have her!!!! <<<>>>><<<>>PS SHe's doing fine with a year under her belt since the operation. My best to all<<>Guy

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 10:38 PM

And my best to you Guy and to your family....Wonderful story. Our children are indeed gifts.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: Big Mick
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 11:14 PM

Peter T., my respect for you grows each time I read your posts. One of the measurements I apply as I ponder folks that I would like to call friends, is their ability to look at something and see it, I mean really see it. You have that ability.

'Spaw, you are an amazing man, and a fine human being. What you are speaks louder than what you say you are, fuck you very much. I am proud and feel fortunate to call you friend.

I started to tell you the story of Timmy here, but I felt like it more properly belongs in the WHY WE SING thread. I have included the blue clicky thing so that people can read it from the beginning. Timmy has been added to the end.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 11:56 PM

Great thread it is too. The magic can happen.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 12:24 AM

Guy, thank you for telling us about your daughter. What a wondeful girl she must be, so brave. My best to you and your family, as well as to the rest of you on here. I love you much.

kat

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (August 31)
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 06:24 PM

Thanks Spa and Kat..What a wonderfull way to make friends!! Thanks Max, as always<<>>> Guy