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BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations

Little Hawk 15 Dec 10 - 05:23 PM
Bobert 15 Dec 10 - 04:23 PM
Backwoodsman 15 Dec 10 - 11:24 AM
Little Hawk 15 Dec 10 - 11:03 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Dec 10 - 10:58 AM
Bobert 15 Dec 10 - 10:56 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Dec 10 - 10:51 AM
Bobert 15 Dec 10 - 10:21 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Dec 10 - 10:12 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Dec 10 - 10:11 AM
Little Hawk 15 Dec 10 - 10:07 AM
Bobert 15 Dec 10 - 10:01 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Dec 10 - 09:32 AM
GUEST,Grishka 15 Dec 10 - 09:18 AM
GUEST,Silas 15 Dec 10 - 08:48 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Dec 10 - 08:47 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Dec 10 - 08:45 AM
Bobert 15 Dec 10 - 08:41 AM
Little Hawk 15 Dec 10 - 07:48 AM
GUEST,Silas 15 Dec 10 - 07:33 AM
Little Hawk 15 Dec 10 - 07:30 AM
GUEST,Silas 15 Dec 10 - 07:12 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Dec 10 - 06:05 AM
Little Hawk 14 Dec 10 - 06:23 PM
GUEST,Grishka 14 Dec 10 - 04:22 PM
GUEST,Grishka 14 Dec 10 - 04:07 PM
Backwoodsman 14 Dec 10 - 03:26 PM
Little Hawk 14 Dec 10 - 01:52 PM
Lox 14 Dec 10 - 01:36 PM
Little Hawk 14 Dec 10 - 01:17 PM
Donuel 14 Dec 10 - 11:42 AM
GUEST,Grishka 14 Dec 10 - 11:40 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Dec 10 - 10:53 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Dec 10 - 10:47 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Dec 10 - 10:44 AM
Lox 14 Dec 10 - 10:26 AM
GUEST,Grishka 14 Dec 10 - 10:18 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Dec 10 - 09:21 AM
Bobert 14 Dec 10 - 09:12 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Dec 10 - 05:00 AM
Little Hawk 14 Dec 10 - 02:49 AM
MGM·Lion 14 Dec 10 - 02:35 AM
Little Hawk 13 Dec 10 - 11:53 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Dec 10 - 05:38 AM
GUEST,Grishka 13 Dec 10 - 05:22 AM
GUEST 13 Dec 10 - 05:21 AM
GUEST,Patsy 13 Dec 10 - 04:51 AM
Little Hawk 13 Dec 10 - 02:29 AM
GUEST,Grishka 12 Dec 10 - 05:03 AM
Bobert 11 Dec 10 - 07:20 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 05:23 PM

So he could just as well have ended up on the other side, eh? Interesting. Some people take to military service and war like a duck to water, and they make very effective soldiers. Patton was like that, but he was a lot higher up the chain of command.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 04:23 PM

Yeah, LH, my uncle was eat up with war... He was 17 in 1939 and tried unsuccessfully to join the German army because my grandmother wouldn't let him but when he turned 18 he marched right into the Marine recruiting office and signed up... He was twice wounded in the Pacific and again wounded in Korea but that didn't phase him... I think it was '65 when he went back to the Marines but by this time a life's worth of bad habits had caught up to him and the Marines turned him down this time...

Very entertaining individual, however...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 11:24 AM

We had a POW camp in our town, which housed Italians and Germans at one time or another. They were sent out to work around the town, and one German POW was befriended by my mother's family. Not sure of the circumstances - the family were Salvationists, maybe they came into contact through that work. Whatever, for years after the war, after he was repatriated, he came over from Germany to visit and stay with my grandparents and their family, my uncles and aunts. A truly nice guy, us kids loved him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 11:03 AM

Holy crap, Bobert! That's a serious case of war addiction. ;-)

My Dad volunteered to fight the Germans in '42, and he was very intent on defeating them, because his own family had lost everything to the Nazis in 1938. He detested that regime and he wanted to see them brought down, so he enlisted in the British forces to do his bit.

What he found when he actually got there, though, was that war, as he put it, turned out to be the "biggest, stupidest waste of men and material I'd ever seen in my life". He still wanted to beat the Nazis, but he hated the war, and he swore that he would somehow survive it, get back to peacetime society, make something of himself, and NEVER serve in another war upon any excuse! He advised me never to enlist in any war, no matter what the government said.

This was after he'd seen a lot of good men and buddies die, killed a number of Germans in close combat, and saw a lot of other weary and heartsick German soldiers surrender with obvious relief in their eyes at the giddy thought that, by God, they were going to maybe survive this thing after all...all any of them wanted to do at that point was to go back home, be with their loved ones again, and be done forever with that war. It was just a giant tragedy for the ordinary people who were involved in it.

After the war he was good friends with a number of Germans, and they shared reminiscences about the war now and then, but mostly focused on the present.

I know for sure my Dad would not have felt as comradely toward the Japanese, and here's why. He didn't look at them the same way he'd have looked at another white man. In short, he was prejudiced against them because they were Asians, he didn't see them as equals, and I'm sure he'd have detested them if he'd fought against them.

I don't see it that way. I like the Asians just as much as I like anyone else. Things have changed a lot since the time when my Dad was growing up, and some things have changed for the better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 10:58 AM

Thanks Bobert. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 10:56 AM

Interesting, b-woodsman... Same here... I got a box of letters that my uncle sent home from the Pacific and from reading them you'd think that it was one big joke... Of course, they weren't allowed to talk about anything related to the war in those letters but they are some funny stuff...

Nuthin' wrong with reminiscin' either... Think of it as mental calisthenics...

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 10:51 AM

Yep Bobert, it was something we didn't have to live through (at least, I didn't - born 1947), but I remember the aftermath, the deprivations, food rationing, the guys with dreadful injuries, guys who were shell-shocked and living in institutions, the bombed-out buildings (still around in the fifties).

And I heard the stories from the guys who fought and survived - ex-aircrew, sailors on the North-Atlantic convoys who'd spent time in the sea after being torpedoed by a sub, a relative who was a member of the Parachute Regiment, who was taken prisoner at Arnhem, my old boss who fought at Cassino and in the North-African desert campaign. And you know what, the amazing thing is that those stories always contained humour - when things were shit, they found a joke in there somehow. Amazing!

It was a harder time than we can imagine, but the world has to move on. It has, and it will continue to....hopefully.

All the best, and sorry for the thread drift. Reminiscing is a sign of age, they say.....!! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 10:21 AM

Yeah, B-woodsman, and the UK suffered the massive bombing campaigns by the Germans...

My uncle, who fought in the Pacific as a marine, was so riled up and filled with hatred of any Orientals after WW II to he re-upped for the Korean War and still hadn't had enough so he tried to re-up for Vietnam when he was pushing 50 years old???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 10:12 AM

Sorry, LH - posting at the same time as you. You are right in so many ways.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 10:11 AM

Not just in the USA, Bobert. Us Brits lost a lot of men and women fighting the Japanese in WW2, and my dad, normally a kind and generous guy, hated "Those slitty-eyed little yellow bastards" - understandable, given that family-members died in horrific circumstances at the hands of the Japanese.

However, times have changed, and attitudes change too. The generation who went through those times (both sides suffered, different ways maybe, but suffered just the same) are leaving the world. Today, we meet people of many races and nationalities in the modern world and the thing that strikes me often is that.........they're people, just like me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 10:07 AM

It was certainly understandable during the war years, Backwoodsman, but I find it very sad that people still feel they must keep that sort of hatred burning and alive for many years after a war has been won and is over. It disgusted me as a kid to see my own young generation being taught to hate the Germans and Japanese when most of us had never even met one, and I think it's shameful for any nation to continue its wartime hate propaganda after the war is over. It doesn't help anyone to do that, it just perpetuates something very negative that people should let go of and be done with. It's as if the war didn't teach the older people anything, but just deepened their need for further revenge on nations that were already utterly crushed.

It made me want to learn a lot more about the Germans and Japanese, because I suspected that they were just normal human beings like the rest of us, and I was right about that. They are. Normal human beings tend to do awful things during wars, because they're under incredible pressure from irresponsible leaders and commanders.

Terrible things always happen in war. Atrocities get committed by both sides, but you heard nothing about Allied war crimes in those days. Not a peep. They were still giving us North American kids the same crude, hysterical hate propaganda in the 50s and 60s as if they wanted to recruit us all to go out and kill yet more Germans and Japanese long after the war was already won! I see no point in that at all. It's stupid. It's vengeful. It's unnecessary. And it's arrogant in the extreme.

If I'd been forced to witness the dreadful wartime German and Japanese hate propaganda, I'd have despised it just the same. I despise all that kind of stuff, no matter who is spouting it at the time. People should have enough maturity to respect their enemies on the field of battle (even if they disagree with their political leaders) and recognize their common and shared humanity and respect the danger and horror the "enemy" soldier is facing, just like they are facing themselves..........but if they did have that kind of maturity, well, maybe our politicians couldn't get us to go off to war so easily, could they?

And that applies to the Germans and Japanese too. You need to trick a people into going to war. You trick them by making them hate and fear some other people. Most will fall for it...and then you have your war...and the arms manufacturers get very, very rich.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 10:01 AM

Hatred and/or animosity toward Japanese extended right up until the 80s when then US felt economically threatened by Japan and took a hard swerve toward "nationalism", buckled down and tried harder to compete...

The 50s was easy to figure out... The US lost alot of service men min the Pacific and those memories were still fresh... Plus, Hollywood was crankin' out war movies by the dozens which were, to be honest, purdy hateful toward both the Japanese and the Germans but more so toward the Japanese who portrayed as something less than human...

BTW, seems that one common thread between today, the 80s and the 50s is "nationalism"... The Republican Party, and more recently it's Tea Party affiliates, has been beating the drum 24/7 going back to 9/11...

The difference this time is that the US is not competitive and doesn't really have the courage and will to get competitive because that would involve raising taxes, building a 21st century infrastructure, educating its people and getting off it's nihilistic ass... And we certainly aren't up to that task...

(Sorry for the drift...)

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 09:32 AM

Grishka, the use of capitals is generally understood to be the cyber-equivalent of shouting. If I wanted to shout, I'D HAVE TYPED IN CAPITALS (I was deliberately shouting there!) :-)

Given that we are not personally acquainted, I'm at a loss to understand how you can possibly know how I speak, what tones of voice I use when I say this or that phrase, so I regard the assumption that I **must** have been shouting as rather absurd.

My use of capitals in my earlier post was purely an abbreviation of phrases involving the use of swear-words, as a preference to actually typing out those words. If that was understood, but the choice of language 'offended', I apologise, but this is, after all, an adult forum, and I hear far worse from children in our local market-place every Saturday.

And I apologise for the case of mistaken identity - however, your claim to know what Patsy's thoughts were (which were far, far from clear to me and, apparently, a few other people) seemed to suggest that you and Patsy might well be one person (and GUEST postings under multiple identities are srtictly forbidden here).


And I agree, let's leave it there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 09:18 AM

Backwoodsman (15 Dec 10 - 06:05 AM), Grishka is a male first name (= Greg), and certainly I'm not Patsy, which should be evident from our writing styles. -

Where did I shout? Well, "perverted thought-processes" and "WTF" would rarely be pronounced in a soft voice. I only brought that up because of your emphatic claim to sanity, and civilized communication being the broader topic of this thread. Let us finish our little dispute because it is not really important.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 08:48 AM

And 'Yank' - how does that stack up?


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 08:47 AM

And it's not to say that allied fighters never committed atrocities either - they may have done, but it's not widely reported if they did.

Just thought I'd get that in before someone gets on my case. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 08:45 AM

LH, it's hardly surprising, is it, that there was such hatred towards the Japanese in the 50's and 60's - we had just come out of a world war, and the atrocities committed by the Japanese against allied military personnel and civilians in the Japanese theatre of operations (all carried out in the name of 'Bushido' - Honour) were truly beyond belief.

That's not to say, of course, that 65 years on there should be a continuation of that hatred. But it was perfectly understandable at the time?


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 08:41 AM

Yeah, "Jap" falls in the "racial slurs" category and I doubt that you'd find any Japanese who would not be insulted to be called a "Jap"...

Brit??? Hasn't gone thru the same demonetization process but if it had it would be equally offensive... Used to be the word "liberal" was respected but once demonized, always demonized...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 07:48 AM

Fine. So it's nonsense and "rubbish" to you. (shrug) I don't care. That's your prerogative. I don't have to deal with you on a daily basis, after all, so why should I worry about it? You're just one more person in a very big world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 07:33 AM

Rubbsh.

I am in my mid fifties and this is the very first time that I have ever heard that the term 'Jap' could in any way be pejoratve. It is complete nonsense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 07:30 AM

You're mistaken, Silas. In WWII and ever since, if not long before, the word "Jap" was and has been used mostly to insult the Japanese and to imply that they are nasty little subhumans. They were also often referred to as "monkey men" or "slopes" (slopehead) or "Nips" (for Nippon/Japan) by the Allied personnel in WWII. The race hatred I saw directed at the Japanese in American war comics, books, and other publications in the 1950s and early 60s was the most vitriolic and extreme racist stuff I have ever seen in the North American culture. It stands alone. It has to be seen to be believed.

Now, I don't doubt that there are some people in this world who've used the word "Jap" with no consciously hostile intention...but they would be the exception, not the rule. In most cases it is used as a putdown, similar to calling an Italian a "wop" or a Jew a "kike" or a "yid".


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 07:12 AM

Well, I've just read as much if this thread as I have had patience to. Since when has 'Jap' been a racial slur?

What a load of bollocks. 'Jap' is just a contaction of 'Japenese' Like 'Brit' is a contraction of British.

I am sure our Jap friends are not offended by it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 06:05 AM

As GUEST, Grishka seems to have a very clear and detailed knowledge of what was in GUEST, Patsy's mind when she wrote the post about Pots v. Kettles, could it be that 'Grishka' and 'Patsy' are one and the same person?

Against the Forum Rules, ladies (or gentlemen, maybe).

PS, Grishka.... where did I shout? I used capital letters as commonly-used abbreviations of a couple of three-word phrases, not to indicate a raised voice. I would have expected someone as perceptive as you appear to be to realise that! :-) :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 06:23 PM

"Ah, yes....it is all coming back to me now..." - Inspector Clouseau, warming up on the parallel bars...


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:22 PM

"... not even told us not to avoid ..." should be "... not even told us to avoid ...". Next time I'll proofread before submitting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:07 PM

Let us not confuse things. Patsy made two points:

a) I can remember an expression used when talking about a hypocritical person as 'The pot calling the kettle black'

- referring to hateful propaganda around WWI and otherwise. A very valid observation, and quite to the point of this thread: name-calling as a guise of hypocrisy.

b) which now thinking about it

- i.e. while I'm typing the word "black" with a negative meaning -

could be thought of as being a little bit tinged with racism.

- i.e. although I (Patsy) don't see any racist implication, I suspect that others might, in which case I do not want to be perceived as thoughtlessly conveying racism. (If she wanted to be ironical about the objectors, she might have written something like "...which some might manage to find a racist tinge in. ;-)".)

We wrote before that this concern is unsubstantiated. Since she did not attack anyone, not even told us not to avoid the word "black" in any circumstance, shouting is by no means justified. A high standard of sanity is marked by refraining from shouting even when attacked. Let the readers decide.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 03:26 PM

"I'm afraid you are mistaken" would be a good answer. "WTF" never supports a claim to superior sanity.

Then we must agree to differ, Grishka - without rancour (on my part at least).

If Patsy was indeed being ironic or humorous in what she said "the pot calling the kettle black", then I'd agree with her. If not, then I wouldn't.

I'm with you on that, LH.

AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
What the hell am I doing here!


Yup. :-)

I've gone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 01:52 PM

Lox - I ask myself that very same question every fucking day of my LIFE here!!! (in regards to Mudcat Cafe, I mean, not in regards to life in general...) ;-)

It's a habit, and it just won't go away.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Lox
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 01:36 PM

AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

What the hell am I doing here!


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 01:17 PM

The fact that we cannot hear a poster's tone of voice nor see their facial expressions often makes it difficult to be sure just what they are intending to convey in a written post. And that's why people use emoticons. ;-) If Patsy was indeed being ironic or humorous in what she said "the pot calling the kettle black", then I'd agree with her. If not, then I wouldn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:42 AM

Al Sharpon is tring to hoist Rush Limbaugh on his own racist 'pitard'. Sharpton has registered his complaints with the FCC. While it may not be every performer's best career move to be a racist ass hole, it is still legal to be a bigoted idiot.

Republicans like former Sen. Simpson are having field day using recent euphemisms like "monkies and apes to describe the Obama administration and policies. They smirk as if they just got away with saying nigger.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:40 AM

If Patsy was joking, I didn't get it either. To me her phrase sounded as if she wanted to cover her back against possible accusations of being racist herself.

"I'm afraid you are mistaken" would be a good answer. "WTF" never supports a claim to superior sanity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 10:53 AM

And, Lox, you do quite a fair bit of getting uppity, drum-beating, and getting hung-up on your own 'agenda' yourself, so you're hardly in a position to criticise, are you.

As we say in The Backwoods, "It takes one to know one"! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 10:47 AM

Lox, as has been pointed out many times on this forum, it's not always easy to perceive humour in a quickly written post. If Patsy was joking, I'm happy to apologise. A smiley face at the end of her post would have been a good clue, and saved me from getting uppity.

Simples.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 10:44 AM

No, not angry for that reason, Grishka, in fact not angry at all.

But I do get very frustrated when people seek to find 'offence' where there is none, and Patsy's assertion very much read as though this was the case here. Whilst I'm very much against racism, sexism, ageism, every '-ism' where there is discrimination of any kind, I do believe there's a paranoia in society today which drives some people to see 'offence' where none exists - hence my phrase 'perverted thought processes', viz. "Pot calling kettle black - must be offensive to black people", when it's nothing of the sort. Completely false logic, a knee-jerk reaction to the use of the word 'black' in a perfectly innocent way.

Seems to me there's a danger of 'offence overload' happening, where people get so used to hearing about others' constant perception of 'offence' in everything they see and hear, that they become desensitized and fail to recognise where genuine 'offence' takes place.

IMHO. YMMV, and that's your prerogative.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Lox
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 10:26 AM

Ironic that Backwoodsman should get so uppity about Patsy's post, yet completely miss its humourous intent.

So busy beating that drum that you fail to notice that the person you are attacking has in fact made your point for you already, just with infinitely greater subtlety.


But then, as he so obtusely points out, some people are so hung up on their "agenda" that you can't say anything anymore without them jumping down your throat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 10:18 AM

Backwoodsman, in your post of 13 Dec 10 - 05:38 AM you identify Patsy's mistake correctly, but are you sure your tone gives a model of sanity? If you shout about "perverted thought-processes" and "WTF", could it be that you are angry about not being able to contradict her main point?


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 09:21 AM

You're not lookin' in the right part of the Backwoods, Bobert! :-)
Sometimes, all it takes is a bit of thought and a drop of common sense to find sanity in the asylum.
The truth is out there........


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 09:12 AM

Sanity???

Hmmmmmmmm??? Where'd you find some of it, B-woodsman, 'cause I been lookin' far and wide and haven't seem much of it in years... And yeah... I've even looked in the backwoods...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:00 AM

It's a joy to know that sanity can still prevail, despite the efforts of crackpots to drive their perverse idiocy into every facet of our lives.
Thanks guys!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 02:49 AM

Yes, that's what immediately came to my mind too. So predictable a kneejerk reaction...yet so pathetically ignorant of the actual meanings or cultural origins of the words in question.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 02:35 AM

One is reminded of the idiotic fuss when an MP described some provision in a Bill before the House as "niggardly"!

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 11:53 PM

You're quite correct, Backwoodsman, it's utter nonsense to look for racism in that old expression. It didn't have anything at all to do with race or skin color, it had to do with the cast iron cookware that literally WAS black. All over. And such cast iron cookware was once common everywhere. The pot and the kettle in those days were both made of cast iron, both equally black in appearance, and that's the point of the expression. It has to do with hypocrisy, and absolutely nothing to do with race or skin color.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:38 AM

"I can remember an expression used when talking about a hypocritical person as 'The pot calling the kettle black' which now thinking about it could be thought of as being a little bit tinged with racism."

Arrant nonsense, and typical of the perverted thought-processes of the PC-Fruitcake Brigade, who seek to find 'offence' anywhere and everywhere, and when none is found, they invent something anyway.

FFS, the reference is to the blackening of the bottom of cooking utensils in use, especially in years past where they would have been used over an open fire or in an oven heated by a wood- or coal-burning fire or stove. WTF has that got to do with racism?


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:22 AM

The last post was of course from me, Grishka


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:21 AM

It seems we all agree again. The past is gone with its nastiness and its excuses. I can boast German, Russian, and French ancestors and I assure you their societies were quite nasty indeed, and their newspapers full of primitive propaganda. Since I'm not a historian, I cannot discuss about fleets, but if a government told me "They are barbarians because they want to be as powerful as we and have an equal share in colonial exploitation", I may not be motivated to give my life in combat.

It's our task not to repeat yesterday's propaganda, even if it did serve an acceptable purpose. More importantly, don't swallow today's, even if you're convinced that, say, the Taliban must be fought. (I remember that in the '80s the Taliban/Mujahideen were praised and supported by western politicians as a bulwark against Soviet imperialism.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 04:51 AM

I can remember an expression used when talking about a hypocritical person as 'The pot calling the kettle black' which now thinking about it could be thought of as being a little bit tinged with racism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 02:29 AM

Yes, Grishka, all political powers involved in war routinely spout exaggerated propaganda that is calculated to stir outrage and hatred of the "enemy" in the hearts of young soldiers and make them rush out bravely to the slaughter. It's a tactic as old as politics itself....and as dirty.

Germany only became the "enemy du jour" for the English in the 20th century, mainly due to the Kaiser's foolish desire to build a very large navy that could theoretically challenge the Royal Navy. That was when Germany became an "enemy" of the UK.

Prior to that, France (and quite often Spain) had been England's favorite "enemies du jour" since some time in the 1400's all the way through to the final defeat of Napoleon in 1815. The Germans (Prussians) were valued allies of England in the wars against Napoleon, indeed the Germans had long been allies of the English, this alliance being strengthened by the fact that the Prussians were a Protestant power, while France was a primarily Roman Catholic society...and Spain, of course, was as Catholic as you can get. Organized religion played a large part in forming political alliances.

If the Kaiser had not decided to build a very large modern war fleet for Germany in the early years of the 20th century, I doubt that they would have found themselves fighting the UK at all...they would probably have won the First World War against France and Russia with the English opting out of it...and Hitler would never have risen to power and the Nazis would never have come into being.

It would have been another unfortunate defeat for France, as in the Franco-Prussian War before it, but France would certainly have survived it, and I think the world would have been a whole lot better off if things had gone that way instead of the way they did.

And we in the English-speaking world would not have been told for several generations now how very nasty the Germans are, would we?


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 05:03 AM

McGrath, you don't seem to dispute my main points any longer, so I can easily concede that there are worse things than hateful propaganda. But it helps the warmongers a lot. For young soldiers/fighters, outrage is a stronger motivation than the interests of their governments resp. faction leaders. What I understood about the Northern Ireland conflict seems to illustrate that point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Racial Slurs in Quotations
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 07:20 PM

Let me interject something here...

First of all, "my bad" for not reading every post on this thread or I would have responded differently in saying...

... unless in the scope of a larger discussion on American history as it pertains to race it is never okay for either black or white people to use the word "nigger"...

Secondly, the word, "nigga", while somewhat dated in terms of black culture, is a term that white people should not use, again with the stipulation of discussing history or even current events as they relate to the study of race...

And, yes, I have used it in other posts but always in discussions related to current values held by racist white people, i.e. Redneck Nation as an example of how they speak and what they, the rednecks, think... Wish I didn't have that knowledge but I am surrounded by rednecks so I certainly understand their twisted and hateful ways...

B~


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