Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


poetry - as popular as clog dancing?

raymond greenoaken 06 Dec 10 - 03:31 PM
Amergin 06 Dec 10 - 09:20 PM
GUEST,FloraG 07 Dec 10 - 03:04 AM
scowie 07 Dec 10 - 04:36 AM
Andy Jackson 07 Dec 10 - 04:56 AM
Allan C. 07 Dec 10 - 05:29 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 07 Dec 10 - 05:39 AM
Amos 07 Dec 10 - 10:33 AM
GUEST,Chris P. 07 Dec 10 - 10:44 AM
Will Fly 07 Dec 10 - 11:03 AM
Les in Chorlton 07 Dec 10 - 11:51 AM
mikesamwild 07 Dec 10 - 12:06 PM
beardedbruce 07 Dec 10 - 12:08 PM
GUEST,Doug Saum 07 Dec 10 - 12:15 PM
Amos 07 Dec 10 - 12:30 PM
beardedbruce 07 Dec 10 - 12:59 PM
Matthew Edwards 07 Dec 10 - 02:06 PM
Will Fly 07 Dec 10 - 02:13 PM
meself 07 Dec 10 - 02:44 PM
Amos 07 Dec 10 - 04:05 PM
Les in Chorlton 07 Dec 10 - 04:06 PM
s&r 07 Dec 10 - 05:05 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 08 Dec 10 - 09:26 AM
GUEST,John from "Elsie`s Band" 08 Dec 10 - 09:46 AM
GUEST,leeneia 08 Dec 10 - 09:54 AM
Liz the Squeak 08 Dec 10 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 08 Dec 10 - 10:37 AM
Amos 08 Dec 10 - 11:04 AM
scowie 08 Dec 10 - 02:25 PM
beardedbruce 08 Dec 10 - 03:05 PM
beardedbruce 08 Dec 10 - 03:39 PM
raymond greenoaken 08 Dec 10 - 05:14 PM
GUEST,matt milton 08 Dec 10 - 05:17 PM
Joe Offer 08 Dec 10 - 05:27 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 08 Dec 10 - 05:45 PM
scowie 09 Dec 10 - 03:43 AM
mikesamwild 09 Dec 10 - 06:10 AM
GUEST,John from Kemsing 09 Dec 10 - 06:58 AM
MikeofNorthumbria 09 Dec 10 - 07:39 AM
Les in Chorlton 09 Dec 10 - 10:29 AM
Amos 09 Dec 10 - 10:30 AM
GUEST 09 Dec 10 - 10:33 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:



Subject: poetry - as popular as clog dancing?
From: raymond greenoaken
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 03:31 PM

The former Poet Laureate Andrew Motion was reported in today' Independent bewailing the fact that poetry nowadays enjoys a low social status and is poorly taught in schools. "These days," he wailed, "poetry seems to have the same social cachet as clog dancing."

Discuss...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: Amergin
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 09:20 PM

Well, why don't you add your thoughts and feelings into it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 03:04 AM

Trouble is poetry has been rammed down kids as something one has to do for an exam rather than something to enjoy.

I wonder about the future of team sports as the Government try to do the same thing - when the biggest ' sport' growth is dance.
FloraG.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: scowie
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 04:36 AM

It was an inane comment from a former Poet Laureat who cannot write poetry, neither he nor his comments on clog dancing (of which he will know very little!) should be given any credence whatsoever.
In a large part he himself is responsible for the relative unpopularity of poetry.
End of story.
Now can we move on to more interesting things!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 04:56 AM

Well I went a had an admittedly short introduction to this guy.
Hmmm, an author certainly, but not a poet in my view. Mostly unrhyming disconnected thoughts are surely prose not poetry?
I enjoyed the subject matter but his own delivery was stylised and did nothing for me. Perhaps he should take up clog dancing and get a sense of rhythm!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: Allan C.
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 05:29 AM

Long ago when I was in school there was what was called "poetic prose". Something barely akin to this is what now passes as poetry. It tweaks my every nerve to listen to the "poetry" of today. To me, it is mostly what I was taught to call, paragraphs. If today's poetry is drifting out of popularity, then it is well deserved. That the learning of classical poetry is no longer a part of school curriculum is shameful.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 05:39 AM

Andrew "Free-Verse" Motion has to hurry-up and realise that most people still like traditional metre and/or rhyme; or in (traditional) verse - Audience Lost


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: Amos
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 10:33 AM

Rhyme, scansion and formal structures
Are not the key to a poem
Unless they help carry the freight.
The freight pays the bills.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry - as popular as clog dancing?
From: GUEST,Chris P.
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 10:44 AM

Nice one, Amos!
Anyway, so at least one former Poet Laureate can see a similarity between clog dancing and poetry.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 11:03 AM

Andrew "Free-Verse" Motion has to hurry-up and realise that most people still like traditional metre and/or rhyme

So, no hope for Betjeman's "Summoned By Bells", then...

...or Sassoon's "The rank stench of those bodies haunts me still"...

I don't particularly for Andrew Motion's poetry, but blank verse (not 'Free-Verse') is a perfectly respectable and long-standing and poetic tradition.

I have to say, though, that he obviously knows bugger-all about the current popularity of clogging.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 11:51 AM

Clittering clattering coal 'ole cavalry ..............

L in C#


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 12:06 PM

so poetry, folk dancing, incest and clog dancing not to be tried in a lifetime eh\?

We'll see how popular clog is on TV this weekend. Hope Widdicombe's not on it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 12:08 PM

Sorry, Amos.

I have to disagree- the PRESENT state of "poetry" is due to the lack of "Rhyme, scansion and formal structures".


Words alone are like hammers- they are a good tool, but not up to all tasks.

Saws, drills, lathes, etc are sometimes needed to create something worthwhile...

Poetry is defined as "The art of apprehending and interpreting ideas by the faculty of imagination; the art of idealizing in thought and in expression. "

Which of the following is a better POEM?

1.
Sonnet

n.
A 14-line verse form usually having one of several conventional rhyme schemes.
A poem in this form.



2.

A sonnet is a frozen tear, a kiss,
Preserved in fourteen lines. It is a pearl
Of layered thought, a gem too bright to miss
When set on page: One blossom, to unfurl
To perfect flower. As amber, sealed soul
In timeless tomb, it can show time long past,
Or hold this instant in it's grasp. The whole
Of heart upon one single page, to last
Beyond even our dreams, it seems a sip,
Distilled to essence. Refined within mind,
Lines sing sweet song, and rhymes in patterns slip,
To weave image that leaves mere vision blind.
A single chord, to resound in one's heart:
Echo of past that might our future start.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: GUEST,Doug Saum
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 12:15 PM

I can share his feeling of the importance of poetry and agree that poetry is and ought to be "fun," though I'd hastily add the adjective "edifying." Don't we become more fully human when our ability to handle abstractions is employed in the service of personal and public mythology (a task perfectly suited to poetry)? This current generation relies on schema of abstraction prefabricated digitally. Whether there is enough room for mass creativity in the new digital order may be of concern. Then again, it has always been so that the human creative spark is fanned to flame by the committed artist. Keep on singing, Doug


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: Amos
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 12:30 PM

Bruce:

Disagree to your heart's content. Your first example is a declarative sentence, not a blank verse. Your second is a patterned rhyme, but I would not call either of them a finished poem.


A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 12:59 PM

Well, there are thsoe that disagree with you- the second has been published, and I was paid for it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 02:06 PM

The article in The Independent is well worth reading. Andrew Motion was himself enthused by inspirational teaching at his school from Peter Way, and I wish he'd used this occasion to pay tribute to the few teachers who really do manage to pass on a love of poetry to their students.

As for clog dancing, he ought to have seen Sam Sherry in action!

Poetry in Motion

His feet land with a snap
and a slap;
with a rapid tappity-tap his heels
spin like wheels
before coming to a full stop.

Then a leap, and a hop,
and off he goes
heels and toes
forward and back
clickety-clack.
That's the way to do it; and now
he makes a low bow.

Matthew


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 02:13 PM

As for clog dancing, he ought to have seen Sam Sherry in action!

Absolutely, Matthew. I knew Sam in his later years (in the mid-1960s) when he was running narrow boats up the Lancaster Canal and wowing us all at the Lancaster Folk Stir with his funny songs and the lovely playing on his old Gibson guitar. He would also occasionally demonstrate some clogging - and he was brilliant!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: meself
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 02:44 PM

Please note: the man did not say that he himself was not mad about clog-dancing; he simply implied that its 'social cachet' is not all it could (and perhaps ought) to be.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: Amos
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 04:05 PM

...like a patient, etherized upon a table.
Oh, do not ask, "What is it?"
Let us go, and make our visit.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 04:06 PM

"he simply implied that its 'social cachet' is not all it could (and perhaps ought) to be. "

I guess them cloggers should know their place?

L in C#

Clittering clattering ............. coal 'ole cavalry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: s&r
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 05:05 PM

It's easier to say what's not poetry than what is.

I think that within the defining of poetry is the need for a similar thought pattern to that used in one of the firms I have worked for to define "quality"

This was broadly "conformance to requirement". Using this I have no problem in accepting greeting card verses, limericks, Shakespeare, the Bible as examples of poetry in their own ways.

A bit like defining folk music, defining poetry will produce hot air and few poems

Stu


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 09:26 AM

I enjoyed the two trad. poems posted above, as I've oft enjoyed Lancashire and Durham/Northumberland clog dancing, plus, once or twice, Welsh clog dancing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: GUEST,John from "Elsie`s Band"
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 09:46 AM

WALKABOUTS,
            With regard to poetry being constructed around metre and rhyme, you never said a truer word. I listen to some of the Friday evening, BBC3 poetry programme and have a great deal of time for the presenter but some of the material offered as poetry leaves me completely bamboozled.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 09:54 AM

In 1996 I was with friends, rafting down the Grand Canyon. Before we were about to shoot Lava Falls, the most dangerous rapid, my husband ascended the pneumatic tube and recited Tennyson's 'Ulysses' to rapt attention followed by cheers.

You can't tell me that people don't enjoy good poetry.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 09:58 AM

Poetry is actually quite well received by children - I used to read to classes who would visit the library and also take poetry sessions to local schools as part of the national curriculum. Admittedly, it was 12 years or so ago, but even so, considerably more contemporary than I suspect the memories of school poetry are of some posting above.

Personally I loathed poetry at school because they were all stodgy, classical things and we were forced to learn it by rote. One week, we had to pick a poem and learn it... from a class of 32 girls, 31 chose 'The Unquiet Grave' - "The wind doth blow today my love, and a few small drops of rain". One chose 'Tyger, tyger'.   Give you three guesses who!

Anyway... poetry was included in the national curriculum at primary school age (4-11) in the decade, it's then that the seeds are sewn and if the poems they hear or read grab their interest, they will go on to read more as they grow older. As far as I'm aware, clog dancing has never made it into the national curriculum - and if it did, I'm pretty sure Health and Safety would have something to say about it!

Of course, once they grow up and start noticing the opposite sex, poetry is going to go right out of the window - as Les Barker put it: Is poetry better than sex? No it's bloody well not!

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 10:37 AM

I `ad that Andrew Motion once a-riding in my cab.
`e said, " `ere Jim, can you do poems?"
I said, "I`ll `ave a stab."
I did a coupl`a verses about my love indoors.
Of `ow she cooked, made the beds and `oovered all the floors.
I said to `im, "Now Andy, whad`ya think of that?"
"It tells a tale about my life and all in seconds flat."
`e said, "That aint a poem Jim. It`s balanced and there`s rhyme"
I said, "Then was old Wordsworth a waste of bleeding time??!!"

Whaddam I Like??


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 11:04 AM

'Ere, 'ere Liz, you can't go sewing all them seeds. They're needed fer crops, ya know!

As to poetry versus rhymery, it is one of those words that gets abused by multiple definitions, like a man with too many wives.

?Poetry (from the Greek "", , a "making") is a form of literary art in which language is used for its aesthetic and evocative qualities in addition to, or in lieu of, its apparent meaning. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetry

?The class of literature comprising poems; Composition in verse or language exhibiting conscious attention to patterns; A poet's literary production; A 'poetical' quality, artistic and/or artfull, which appeals or stirs the imagination, in any medium
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Poetry

One Wiki author adds these remarks:

"Early attempts to define poetry, such as Aristotle's Poetics, focused on the uses of speech in rhetoric, drama, song, and comedy.[1] Later attempts concentrated on features such as repetition, verse form and rhyme, and emphasized the aesthetics which distinguish poetry from more objectively informative, prosaic forms of writing, such as manifestos, biographies, essays, and novels .[2] From the mid-20th century, poetry has sometimes been more loosely defined as a fundamental creative act using language.[3]

Poetry often uses particular forms and conventions to suggest alternative meanings in the words, or to evoke emotional or sensual responses. Devices such as assonance, alliteration, onomatopoeia, and rhythm are sometimes used to achieve musical or incantatory effects. The use of ambiguity, symbolism, irony, and other stylistic elements of poetic diction often leaves a poem open to multiple interpretations. Similarly, metaphor, simile, and metonymy[4] create a resonance between otherwise disparate images?a layering of meanings, forming connections previously not perceived. Kindred forms of resonance may exist, between individual verses, in their patterns of rhyme or rhythm."

I think it is clear from these and other essays on the nature of the beast that rhyming is a secondary attribute, not a defining trait, of good poetry.

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: scowie
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 02:25 PM

I well remember being told there was a Poets Group meeting regularly in a Bolton pub some time ago,so I took myself along and was asked to contribute early on in the evening, my efforts along traditional lines were not very well recieved! I stayed on to listen to them all, it was universally
what I call blank verse, no rythmn, no rhyme, no story being told, no obvious begining, certainly no obvious ending. Each participant then sat down with a most self-satisfied expression on their face, as if to say --TOP THAT!They meant nothing to me but very much to themselves, I left feeling some sort of fossil! feeling shell-shocked, and stayed thereafter in my usual haunts of the local folk clubs, where my material is tolerably well recieved (some having made a decent song or two)
I have heard, or gathered from various sources that things may be altering in the Literary World, and traditionally formed verse may again be finding some favour, I do hope so!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 03:05 PM

"In the old days a poet used to sweat turning out a sonnet, say. Very difficult form. Exactly 14 lines, all of them hung together with rhyme, rhythm, meter, perfectly. It was too much work for the poet, so blank verse and then free verse came in. And then anarchy. The new poet never bothered to learn how to write a sonnet, or to measure his lines in correct meter and to follow a rhythm system. He dashed off his inspired poem in a matter of a half hour and was surprised when after a few decades of this people stopped reading poetry."



Among the Bad Baboons, by Mack Reynolds
Copyright 1968 Galaxy Publishing Corp.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 03:39 PM

Amos,

This one is for ( and about ) you.





Rum Tum Tugger is one of the many feline characters in the poetry book Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats by T. S. Eliot, published in 1939

The Rum Tum Tugger is a Curious Cat:
If you offer him pheasant he would rather have grouse.
If you put him in a house he would much prefer a flat,
If you put him in a flat then he'd rather have a house.
If you set him on a mouse then he only wants a rat,
If you set him on a rat then he'd rather chase a mouse.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: raymond greenoaken
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 05:14 PM

Some of you have been a bit tough on po' Andrew Motion, I think. No arch-modernist he. As you emerge from Sheffield railway station you'll see a poem of his in mighty lettering on the side of the Hallam University building. It rhymes and it scans. It's pants, but that's by the way...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry ? as popular as clog dancing?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 05:17 PM

An appreciation of non-metric or unrhymed verse isn't being contrary. It's, er, liking poetry. In all its forms.

While Andrew Motion's comment does perpetuate common stereotype about trad arts, I actually find myself agreeing with him in one way: both poetry and morris dancing are marginalised practices that tend to get sneered at or dismissed out of hand.

I like poetry. I like folk music. I like jazz. I like free improvisation. I think they have plenty in common.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry - as popular as clog dancing?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 05:27 PM

My wife's previous husband, Jim Cox, came to the US from Shropshire many years ago. After working in middle-management jobs, he left Sacramento and moved here to the Sierra Nevada foothills, making his living hauling junk. He loved these foothills, and wrote poetry about their beauty, and about the Gold Rush and the railroad that are so much a part of the history of this area. And he recited his poetry as he did Appalachian clog-dancing, with a big smile on his face. About a year before his death, Jim went on a performance tour with the Barbary Coast Cloggers of San Francisco.

It's my understanding that reciting poetry while clogging is an Appalachian tradition, but Jim's the only poetic clogger I ever heard of. He made poetry fun.


-Joe-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry - as popular as clog dancing?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 05:45 PM

Scowie: I agree with you except on blank verse (e.g., Wordsworth's "The Prelude" or, my own attempt having read that, etc., 0 -19), which does have metre.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry - as popular as clog dancing?
From: scowie
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 03:43 AM

I remember a poem from my schooldays, I think it's Masefield and called "The Woodmans Dog" as I remember from fifty years ago,
    Shaggy and lean and shrewd,
    With tail cut short, half Lurcher and half Cur,
    His dog attends him,
    Now creeps he slow, and now with many a wide frisk scampering,
    Snatches up the drifted snow with ivory teeth,
    Or ploughs it with his snout.

That I do enjoy, alas look what it has lead to!
Keep the fires Burning,
Cheers, Scowie.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry - as popular as clog dancing?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:10 AM

Ordinary people and their idioms and use of simile and metaphore can grasp the essence of things very poetically.

The other day we were clearing snow and a local chap who used to work in the steelworks from the age of 15 came out with the following , saying 'The snow up here's as crusty as old Betty's keks' ( Bet5ty being a local mucky woman)


This was shortly followed by the use of alliteration when his shovel broke


' F... the f...in' f....er it's f...in' f....d!


We are in the land where Sir Gawain and the Green Knight was written


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry - as popular as clog dancing?
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:58 AM

There was a young lady from Gaunt,
Got stung on the knee by a wasp.
She said, " that hurts a bit,
But I don`t mind,
It can do it again if it likes"



Joe Pepper,
Writer and Poet(Failed). 1972


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry - as popular as clog dancing?
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:39 AM

Quite a few people still seem to assume automatically that poetry and verse are the same thing. But as one of the 20th century's better lyricists said:"It ain't necessarily so...". Some poetry is verse - some isn't. Some verse is poetry - a lot isn't.

For example, the messages inside most birthday/Christmas/get well soon/etc cards are mostly verse,but seldom poetry. So are the lyrics churned out by many contemporary singer-songwriters.

On the other hand, some of the finest poetry is not verse. Consider for example the King James translation of 1 Corinthians 13:

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity,
I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal...

When I was a child, I spake as a child,
I understood as a child, I thought as a child:
But when I became a man, I put away childish things."

Or T S Eliot's "Journey of the Magi":

"A cold coming we had of it
Just the worst time of the year for a journey
And such a long journey ...

The cities hostile, the towns unfriendly
And the villages dirty and charging high prices ..."

Writing verse is a word-game, like Scrabble but a bit more complicated. The end result may fulfil all the requirements laid down by the rules of the game, but still not convey a meaningful message.

Writing poetry is an attempt to communicate thoughts and feelings from one human being to another by the imaginative - rather than the strictly literal - use of language. If it works, the end justifies whatever linguistic means has been used to do the job.

As for Andrew Motion, the problem that concerns him was addressed some years ago by Adrian Mitchell, who was (IMHO) a far greater poet.

"We have to give up our fear of speaking to people who have never been touched by poetry before.
We have to give up our fear of speaking to people.
We have to give up our fear of people.
We have to give up our fear."

Wassail!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry - as popular as clog dancing?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:29 AM

From this very place:
COAL-HOLE CAVALRY ~ Ted Edwards

^^
Early morning, dreaming is shattered
ONE clitter-clatter on t'flags outside
Old Knocker-Upper rat-tatting on t'window
Making sure nobody's overlied.

Clittering, clattering, coal-hole cavalry
Galloping, rain or fine
Clittering, clattering, coal-hole cavalry
Galloping down to t'mine.

FATHER yawning, drizzle on t'window
More clitter-clattering coming down t'hill
STAIRS are creaking, oven door banging
Father waiting for Uncle Bill.

MAM is filling 'is bottle wi' water
Clatter-clitter-clatter and a rattle on t'latch
CLOGS in t'lobby an' talking quiet
Arguing t' toss about Sunday's match.

COME on, Billy lad, best get goin'
Clatter-clitter-clatter an' t'front door bang!!
GOING down to t'mucky old coal-pit
Hear pit hat and snap-tin clang!

COLLIERS riding a million horses
Clatter-clitter-clatter all over t'world
"LOOK-OUT! Injuns, Cavalry's coming!"
Picks and shovels and banners unfurled.

HOOTER'S blowin' a sound of vict'ry
Clatter-clitter-clattering's over an' done
ALL t'world's quiet an' sleep is coming
Wish I were a collier - collier - collier
Wish I were a collier, it must be fun!


The author, who was brought up in the coal mining community of Wigan, used to lie in bed as a small child and listen to all these early morning sounds around him, then imagine the miners in clogs as a cavalry charge, off to remove the Indians who'd taken over the mine during the night!!!
A nice song to sing and luverlee in 3-part harmony ... Cheers! R-J

Sung

L in C#


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry - as popular as clog dancing?
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:30 AM

Bruce,

I am afraid your correspondent missed the whole story completely, and substituted in its place an imaginary rationale to suit his own prejudice.

I have wrangled sonnets and lettered rhyme schemes, and I have wrestled with "blank" (whatever that is meant to mean) forms as well; and of the two, I think the blank forms are much harder to work through. THe variables are huge and subtle. It could just as well be argued that formal rhyme schemes are for lazy poets who rely on prefabricated structure to do the hardest part of their work for them.

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: poetry - as popular as clog dancing?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:33 AM

We have to give up
We have to give
We have to
We have
We


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 22 February 5:34 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright 1998 by the Mudcat Caf Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.