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The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC

Joules 08 Dec 10 - 07:55 PM
Anglo 08 Dec 10 - 09:51 PM
katlaughing 08 Dec 10 - 10:23 PM
katlaughing 08 Dec 10 - 11:44 PM
Joules 09 Dec 10 - 04:34 AM
Sugwash 09 Dec 10 - 04:55 AM
Arthur_itus 09 Dec 10 - 05:01 AM
Arthur_itus 09 Dec 10 - 05:04 AM
GUEST,Chris Murray 09 Dec 10 - 05:07 AM
Arthur_itus 09 Dec 10 - 05:22 AM
Sugwash 09 Dec 10 - 05:26 AM
Dave Sutherland 09 Dec 10 - 05:29 AM
Folknacious 09 Dec 10 - 05:38 AM
MoorleyMan 09 Dec 10 - 05:40 AM
Arthur_itus 09 Dec 10 - 05:59 AM
Arthur_itus 09 Dec 10 - 06:03 AM
MoorleyMan 09 Dec 10 - 06:11 AM
GUEST,SteveT 09 Dec 10 - 06:24 AM
GUEST 09 Dec 10 - 06:26 AM
Arthur_itus 09 Dec 10 - 06:33 AM
GUEST,moira(flyingcat) 09 Dec 10 - 06:56 AM
I don't know 09 Dec 10 - 07:15 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 09 Dec 10 - 07:16 AM
GUEST,MC Fat (at work) 09 Dec 10 - 07:17 AM
GUEST,Dave Eyre 09 Dec 10 - 07:50 AM
Surreysinger 09 Dec 10 - 08:15 AM
DG&D Dave 09 Dec 10 - 10:10 AM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 09 Dec 10 - 10:17 AM
Acorn4 09 Dec 10 - 11:04 AM
GUEST,Dave Eyre 09 Dec 10 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,Dave Eyre 09 Dec 10 - 11:14 AM
GUEST 09 Dec 10 - 11:15 AM
GUEST,olgaj 09 Dec 10 - 11:16 AM
GUEST,OlgaJ 09 Dec 10 - 11:17 AM
GUEST,Dave Eyre 09 Dec 10 - 11:37 AM
Acorn4 09 Dec 10 - 11:55 AM
open mike 09 Dec 10 - 11:59 AM
Arthur_itus 09 Dec 10 - 12:01 PM
open mike 09 Dec 10 - 12:07 PM
Acorn4 09 Dec 10 - 12:31 PM
RamblinStu 09 Dec 10 - 01:11 PM
Arthur_itus 09 Dec 10 - 01:17 PM
Sugwash 09 Dec 10 - 05:32 PM
Edthefolkie 09 Dec 10 - 05:34 PM
GUEST,Dave Eyre 09 Dec 10 - 05:37 PM
EnglishFolkfan 09 Dec 10 - 06:15 PM
katlaughing 09 Dec 10 - 07:21 PM
DebC 09 Dec 10 - 08:41 PM
KathWestra 09 Dec 10 - 11:30 PM
Arthur_itus 10 Dec 10 - 02:32 AM
SRD 10 Dec 10 - 03:55 AM
GUEST,GuestSG 10 Dec 10 - 04:37 AM
Dave Sutherland 10 Dec 10 - 05:34 AM
GUEST,MC Fat (at work) 10 Dec 10 - 05:59 AM
Mitch the Bass 10 Dec 10 - 06:16 AM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 10 Dec 10 - 07:17 AM
GUEST,padgett 10 Dec 10 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,glueman 10 Dec 10 - 11:34 AM
GUEST,Dave Eyre 10 Dec 10 - 12:25 PM
GUEST,glueman 10 Dec 10 - 12:48 PM
MoorleyMan 10 Dec 10 - 02:03 PM
GUEST,Ken J. 10 Dec 10 - 03:42 PM
danensis 10 Dec 10 - 03:56 PM
danensis 10 Dec 10 - 04:01 PM
GUEST,Brackenrigg 10 Dec 10 - 06:15 PM
Acorn4 10 Dec 10 - 06:30 PM
katlaughing 10 Dec 10 - 06:40 PM
RamblinStu 10 Dec 10 - 07:03 PM
GUEST,henryp 10 Dec 10 - 07:48 PM
GUEST,chris 11 Dec 10 - 04:27 AM
Acorn4 11 Dec 10 - 08:54 AM
Acorn4 11 Dec 10 - 10:23 AM
GUEST 11 Dec 10 - 12:50 PM
Joules 12 Dec 10 - 07:28 AM
Acorn4 12 Dec 10 - 01:59 PM
GUEST,John Greenwood 12 Dec 10 - 05:47 PM
brother 12 Dec 10 - 06:12 PM
Acorn4 12 Dec 10 - 07:28 PM
DG&D Dave 13 Dec 10 - 04:19 AM
GUEST,S.G. 13 Dec 10 - 04:23 AM
Sugwash 13 Dec 10 - 05:35 AM
Arthur_itus 13 Dec 10 - 08:34 AM
SPB-Cooperator 13 Dec 10 - 08:43 AM
cobra 13 Dec 10 - 09:02 AM
DG&D Dave 13 Dec 10 - 09:30 AM
autoharpbob 13 Dec 10 - 09:45 AM
Spleen Cringe 13 Dec 10 - 09:54 AM
Spleen Cringe 13 Dec 10 - 09:58 AM
DG&D Dave 13 Dec 10 - 10:11 AM
Rob Naylor 13 Dec 10 - 10:15 AM
Sooz 13 Dec 10 - 10:24 AM
DG&D Dave 13 Dec 10 - 10:26 AM
RamblinStu 13 Dec 10 - 10:49 AM
Arthur_itus 13 Dec 10 - 12:02 PM
Sooz 13 Dec 10 - 12:35 PM
GUEST,schlimmerkerl 13 Dec 10 - 12:53 PM
GUEST,jonthebeard 13 Dec 10 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,erbert 13 Dec 10 - 12:58 PM
Arthur_itus 13 Dec 10 - 01:07 PM
Arthur_itus 13 Dec 10 - 01:11 PM
danensis 13 Dec 10 - 02:04 PM
Arthur_itus 13 Dec 10 - 03:18 PM
GUEST,SteveT 13 Dec 10 - 03:34 PM
RamblinStu 13 Dec 10 - 04:07 PM
GUEST,J Phipps 13 Dec 10 - 04:33 PM
GUEST,schlimmerkerl 13 Dec 10 - 05:12 PM
GUEST,John Greenwood 13 Dec 10 - 05:15 PM
Arthur_itus 13 Dec 10 - 05:51 PM
Arthur_itus 13 Dec 10 - 06:06 PM
brezhnev 13 Dec 10 - 06:44 PM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 13 Dec 10 - 07:00 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 14 Dec 10 - 01:51 AM
YorkshireYankee 14 Dec 10 - 02:01 AM
DG&D Dave 14 Dec 10 - 03:06 AM
GUEST,S.G. 14 Dec 10 - 04:00 AM
GUEST,GUEST.B.I 14 Dec 10 - 04:22 AM
GUEST,MC Fat (at work) 14 Dec 10 - 04:24 AM
GUEST,Dave Eyre 14 Dec 10 - 04:47 AM
GUEST,SteveT 14 Dec 10 - 04:59 AM
RamblinStu 14 Dec 10 - 05:01 AM
Sugwash 14 Dec 10 - 05:12 AM
GUEST,SteveT 14 Dec 10 - 05:19 AM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 14 Dec 10 - 05:58 AM
Arthur_itus 14 Dec 10 - 06:05 AM
brezhnev 14 Dec 10 - 06:23 AM
Sugwash 14 Dec 10 - 06:44 AM
Millindale 14 Dec 10 - 06:57 AM
GUEST,S.G. 14 Dec 10 - 07:12 AM
GUEST,MC Fat (at work) 14 Dec 10 - 07:41 AM
Bernard 14 Dec 10 - 07:49 AM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 14 Dec 10 - 07:52 AM
GUEST,S.G. 14 Dec 10 - 08:00 AM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 14 Dec 10 - 08:09 AM
Lucy Wright 14 Dec 10 - 08:30 AM
brezhnev 14 Dec 10 - 08:40 AM
Dave Hanson 14 Dec 10 - 08:40 AM
GUEST,erbert 14 Dec 10 - 08:44 AM
GUEST,erbert 14 Dec 10 - 08:59 AM
Arthur_itus 14 Dec 10 - 09:12 AM
Bernard 14 Dec 10 - 09:17 AM
brezhnev 14 Dec 10 - 09:17 AM
DG&D Dave 14 Dec 10 - 09:21 AM
Arthur_itus 14 Dec 10 - 10:02 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 14 Dec 10 - 11:00 AM
GUEST,SteveT 14 Dec 10 - 11:02 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 14 Dec 10 - 11:43 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 14 Dec 10 - 11:55 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 14 Dec 10 - 12:03 PM
GUEST,judy hardman 14 Dec 10 - 01:09 PM
GUEST,erbert 14 Dec 10 - 01:18 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 14 Dec 10 - 01:32 PM
GUEST,erbert 14 Dec 10 - 01:41 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 14 Dec 10 - 01:51 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 14 Dec 10 - 01:56 PM
GUEST,glueman 14 Dec 10 - 02:29 PM
GUEST,glueman 14 Dec 10 - 02:33 PM
GUEST,schlimmerkerl 14 Dec 10 - 02:48 PM
Arthur_itus 14 Dec 10 - 02:49 PM
Arthur_itus 14 Dec 10 - 04:20 PM
Folkiedave 14 Dec 10 - 05:12 PM
Ruth Archer 14 Dec 10 - 06:43 PM
GUEST,Dennis Cooke ........Down Under 14 Dec 10 - 08:37 PM
YorkshireYankee 15 Dec 10 - 06:38 AM
GUEST 15 Dec 10 - 08:13 AM
GUEST,Dave Eyre 15 Dec 10 - 08:15 AM
Abdul The Bul Bul 15 Dec 10 - 08:53 AM
Folkiedave 15 Dec 10 - 12:35 PM
GUEST 15 Dec 10 - 02:55 PM
Arthur_itus 15 Dec 10 - 03:04 PM
GUEST,John Greenwood (Guest) 15 Dec 10 - 03:11 PM
Arthur_itus 15 Dec 10 - 03:53 PM
Arthur_itus 15 Dec 10 - 04:25 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 15 Dec 10 - 07:20 PM
GUEST,Sid F 15 Dec 10 - 09:21 PM
GUEST,Dave Eyre 16 Dec 10 - 03:57 AM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 16 Dec 10 - 07:53 AM
GUEST,judy hardman 16 Dec 10 - 09:24 AM
DG&D Dave 16 Dec 10 - 09:56 AM
GUEST,OldNicKilby 16 Dec 10 - 10:16 AM
GUEST,oldnickilby 16 Dec 10 - 10:22 AM
DG&D Dave 16 Dec 10 - 10:28 AM
GUEST,erbert 16 Dec 10 - 11:20 AM
GUEST,chris 16 Dec 10 - 11:28 AM
GUEST,Ian Carter 16 Dec 10 - 12:03 PM
Arthur_itus 16 Dec 10 - 12:29 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 16 Dec 10 - 01:14 PM
Arthur_itus 16 Dec 10 - 01:17 PM
Folkiedave 16 Dec 10 - 04:41 PM
Folkiedave 16 Dec 10 - 04:45 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 16 Dec 10 - 04:54 PM
Surreysinger 16 Dec 10 - 05:24 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 16 Dec 10 - 05:32 PM
MikkinNotts 16 Dec 10 - 07:57 PM
Arthur_itus 17 Dec 10 - 03:25 AM
GUEST,OLDNICKILBY 17 Dec 10 - 05:03 AM
GUEST 17 Dec 10 - 05:07 AM
GUEST,S.G. 17 Dec 10 - 06:47 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 17 Dec 10 - 01:23 PM
GUEST,Dave Eyre 18 Dec 10 - 08:28 AM
GUEST 18 Dec 10 - 08:29 AM
GUEST,Sorry - last guest was me! 18 Dec 10 - 08:29 AM
GUEST,Guest 18 Dec 10 - 09:27 AM
Dave Higham 18 Dec 10 - 10:12 AM
GUEST,Chris Murray 18 Dec 10 - 11:27 AM
Dave Sutherland 19 Dec 10 - 09:10 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 20 Dec 10 - 01:12 AM
DG&D Dave 20 Dec 10 - 05:53 AM
Gillie 20 Dec 10 - 06:03 AM
GUEST,S.G. 20 Dec 10 - 06:44 AM
Arthur_itus 20 Dec 10 - 06:45 AM
Arthur_itus 20 Dec 10 - 07:04 AM
GUEST,S.G. 20 Dec 10 - 07:20 AM
GUEST,S.G. 20 Dec 10 - 07:31 AM
Arthur_itus 20 Dec 10 - 07:34 AM
Acorn4 20 Dec 10 - 08:05 AM
Acorn4 20 Dec 10 - 08:07 AM
SylviaN 20 Dec 10 - 08:26 AM
SylviaN 20 Dec 10 - 08:29 AM
GUEST,AndyC 20 Dec 10 - 08:35 AM
mikesamwild 20 Dec 10 - 08:54 AM
Folkiedave 21 Dec 10 - 01:41 AM
Folkiedave 21 Dec 10 - 01:45 AM
GUEST,Granthampie 21 Dec 10 - 08:00 AM
GUEST,Granthampie 21 Dec 10 - 11:06 AM
GUEST,sheffstu 21 Dec 10 - 03:18 PM
GUEST,sheffstu 21 Dec 10 - 04:33 PM
GUEST,S.G. 22 Dec 10 - 04:54 AM
GUEST,AndyC 22 Dec 10 - 07:49 AM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 22 Dec 10 - 07:52 AM
Dave Sutherland 22 Dec 10 - 09:28 AM
GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow 22 Dec 10 - 10:30 AM
MikkinNotts 22 Dec 10 - 06:13 PM
Arthur_itus 23 Dec 10 - 02:31 PM
GUEST,Guest - Pragmatist 23 Dec 10 - 09:20 PM
Dave Sutherland 24 Dec 10 - 03:42 AM
Arthur_itus 24 Dec 10 - 12:52 PM
Sugwash 24 Dec 10 - 07:08 PM
GUEST,S.G. 26 Dec 10 - 04:06 PM
Rob Naylor 26 Dec 10 - 04:45 PM
RamblinStu 27 Dec 10 - 11:49 AM
Arthur_itus 27 Dec 10 - 12:21 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 27 Dec 10 - 12:34 PM
GUEST,Pete Mann 27 Dec 10 - 03:18 PM
Sugwash 27 Dec 10 - 05:22 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 27 Dec 10 - 05:43 PM
GUEST,Andrew Smith 28 Dec 10 - 01:36 AM
stevewise 28 Dec 10 - 10:03 AM
SPB-Cooperator 28 Dec 10 - 10:40 AM
stevewise 28 Dec 10 - 11:29 AM
Bernard 28 Dec 10 - 11:43 AM
stevewise 28 Dec 10 - 11:59 AM
Bernard 28 Dec 10 - 01:42 PM
GUEST,glueman 29 Dec 10 - 05:49 AM
GUEST,erbert 29 Dec 10 - 05:58 AM
Bernard 29 Dec 10 - 06:44 AM
GUEST,Chris Thomas 29 Dec 10 - 06:04 PM
Andy Jackson 29 Dec 10 - 06:14 PM
RamblinStu 31 Dec 10 - 11:09 PM
Acorn4 01 Jan 11 - 05:00 AM
Bernard 01 Jan 11 - 06:07 AM
SPB-Cooperator 01 Jan 11 - 06:16 AM
SPB-Cooperator 01 Jan 11 - 06:25 AM
GUEST,SteveT 01 Jan 11 - 07:10 AM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 01 Jan 11 - 07:42 AM
stevewise 01 Jan 11 - 07:57 AM
danensis 01 Jan 11 - 08:12 AM
GUEST,Dave Eyre 01 Jan 11 - 05:51 PM
Bernard 01 Jan 11 - 06:32 PM
Bernard 01 Jan 11 - 06:54 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 03 Jan 11 - 03:52 AM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 03 Jan 11 - 05:08 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 04 Jan 11 - 02:28 AM
stevewise 04 Jan 11 - 07:44 AM
ChrisJBrady 17 Apr 11 - 09:01 AM
ChrisJBrady 19 Apr 11 - 01:11 PM
Bernard 19 Apr 11 - 01:34 PM
ChrisJBrady 19 Apr 11 - 03:55 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 19 Apr 11 - 04:52 PM
ChrisJBrady 20 Apr 11 - 12:47 AM
ChrisJBrady 20 Apr 11 - 12:52 AM
GUEST,UK Folk Music 12 Dec 11 - 06:31 AM
YorkshireYankee 12 Dec 11 - 07:02 AM
Sugwash 12 Dec 11 - 07:15 AM
Bernard 12 Dec 11 - 11:33 AM
GUEST,SteveT 13 Dec 11 - 05:07 AM
foggers 13 Dec 11 - 03:44 PM
GUEST,UK Folk Music 29 Nov 12 - 06:45 AM
YorkshireYankee 29 Nov 12 - 01:24 PM
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Subject: The end of Folkwaves
From: Joules
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 07:55 PM

I have learnt tonight that Auntie Beeb has decided that minority music can no longer play a part on the East Midlands radio scene, and that includes Folkwaves. The final show will be broadcast on 27th Dec.
Am I wrong in assuming that as we actually pay for these programmes we also have a right to be heard, and can anyone give me some imput as to how we can actually fight this ? or are we forever destined to listen how X factor contestants are getting on etc etc etc


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Anglo
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 09:51 PM

If that's true it's disgusting. Folkwaves is one of the finest folk shows in the UK, with hosts who could not be more knowledgeable about the music.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 10:23 PM

I couldn't find anything about it coming to an end in a search of BBC. I am listening to Monday's archived programme, now. Great stuff!

I hope this is just an unfound rumour.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 11:44 PM

What great fun. My Rog and I have both enjoyed this past Monday's show. Haven't heard any mention of them going off-air. We will be tuning in for sure over the next while, so I hope it stays.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Joules
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 04:34 AM

Unfortunately it is not just a rumour as I was told last night by both Mick Peat and Lester Simpson at a CBS gig which Mick was promoting. Barry Coupe also announced it on stage. Mick and Lester are gutted.
This morning I am working out my strategy and will later be composing some correspondence to certain BBC departments. Xmas cards to Folkwaves would also be good


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Sugwash
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 04:55 AM

Hell fire, that is really terrible news! I echo Anglo's view that Folkwaves is 'Folkwaves is one of the finest folk shows in the UK...', how could the BBC be so short-sighted. I can only hope that a concerted effort by the show's many fans can save it, but at such short notice, I fear the worst.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:01 AM

Mick and Lester do a great job and serve a very wide community. It's a disgrace. Are you going to start a Facebook petition to save Folkwaves Julie?
We musn't forget that through the internet, people can and do listen worldwide by streaming the program. Is that recorded and taken account of?

It's very important that people write to the following person complaining about it. It's no good phoning.

Simon Cornes
56 S't Helens Street
Derby DE1 3HL

We mustn't forget, that it probably includes the closing of programs such as James McKeefry's excellent Celtic Fringe on a Wednesday from 7 to 9pm which is through Radio Leicester and serves the same regions as Folkwaves, as well as many more such programs.

These people are so valuable to keeping certain genres of music alive and kicking.

Keep us updated Joules


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:04 AM

May I also add these programs affect everybody involved in Folk music, by playing your songs on it, irrespective of where you come from. So mudcatters, your help is greatly needed to keep such programs on the airwaves.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:07 AM

That's terrible. Folkwaves is the best folkie radio programme. I never miss it. Shame on the BBC!


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:22 AM

A quote from Radio Derbyshire's website back in 2009.

Editor Simon Cornes spoke of 'a special bond' with listeners after seeing BBC Radio Derby named 'station of the year' at the BBC's annual Frank Gillard awards.

The internal event recognises the best in BBC local radio across the country.

And BBC Radio Derby picked up the main prize at the awards ceremony held in Nottingham.

It ensured the title stayed in the East Midlands after BBC Radio Nottingham took the honour last year.

The judges called BBC Radio Derby an "out and about station that feels well connected to its audience and its area with likeable presenters and good touches of humour".

End of quote

Not anymore!

I suppose his e-mail address would be

simon.cornes@bbc.co.uk

Maybe time to swamp his e-mail box.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Sugwash
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:26 AM

I've fired off an email to Radio Derby, but I'll also write to the address above in Arthur's post.

I'd say that most of my music buying decisions over the last few years have resulted from hearing artists on Folkwaves.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:29 AM

It is very bad news indeed and there was certainly no indication of this when I listened on Monday night.
I agree that we should all take some sort of action but I also fear that it will be a wasted effort as was seen some twenty years ago, ironically the situation from which Folkwaves evolved, when BBC in the East Midlands chose to network specialist music shows. This meant that individual programmes such as Nottingham's "Copper Plate Music Show" with Roy Harris, "Derby Tup" - Mick Peat and Radio Leiceser's Folk programme with George Thomas were all axed and presented under one umbrella title which, initially at least, lost us any regional feel about the content and presentation.
I can remember numerous protests at the time, all of which fell on deaf ears and a similar situation a few years later when Radio Derby dropped John Shaw's Sunday evening show which more than adequately addressed folk, blues and roots music.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Folknacious
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:38 AM

There's a similar campaign going on to save Ritu's 'A World In London' on BBC London, which is also being axed at the end of December. Now you may think that the fate of a programme playing folk in Derby has no connection to that of a programme playing multi-cultural music in London, but leaving aside the fact that Ritu plays some Britfolk too, the BBC local stations REMIT applies to both.

Things like:

5.3 Stimulating creativity and cultural excellence: BBC Local Radio should contribute to this purpose amongst its audience. It should provide opportunities for new and emerging musicians from the local area and support local arts and music events by providing event information. Music output should be mainstream in peaktime and include specialist in off-peak hours. Specialist music should be appropriate to the area. Current and recent chart hits should represent no more than 15% of weekly music output.

Have a look at the Save A World In London FACEBOOK PAGE and BLOG and you may find some other shared ammunition.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:40 AM

I too am gutted at the news.

I remember a similar outcry when Henry Ayrton's folk and roots show (which served the north) was summarily axed by the bbc as a further sacrifice to the Great God Sport (all hail! - the planners misguidedly assume we are all sport nuts or else love to hear presenters babble mindlessly on peripheral and trivial so-called-political issues for hours on end). I am sick to death of sport dominating the airwaves (there are sports channels after all), and sick of being dictated to by these brainless idiots to whom the concepts of informed broadcasting, quality and integrity are anathema.
Rant over for the moment. Nurse...!


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:59 AM

MoorleyMan
How do you know it's sport that will replace it?
I love sport and would be very angry if that's what they replace it with. There are dedicated programmes for sport.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:03 AM

I have sent an e-mail to Mr Cornes (oops should I be using the C as the first letter of his surname). I will follow up with a letter.
Hopefully Jules might get some sort of petition going.

I think Folknacious makes a valid point in the sense that it is a country issue and maybe there should be one massive country petition, rather than the smaller ones.

Maybe we should all stop paying our licence.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:11 AM

Yes Arthur_itus, there are dedicated programmes (and whole radio and TV channels) for sport, and that is as it should be. Fine. Just because I'm a ludophobe doesn't mean that I believe that sport should be banned from the airwaves! There's a place for specialist music in programming, alongside specialist sport, and I can't see why one measly hour or two of an award-winning folk programme with a specific local remit and professionally presented (but not costly to produce) should be the victim yet again of the whims of the current crop of managers under the guise of whatever cuts might need to be implemented at the bbc. But that is always the kind of lame excuse that is given when a music show is axed - that "local radio listeners prefer sport" (and/or mindless chat) (who says so ??? where's the evidence??) and therefore there should be even more sports coverage (and/or chat) than there already is on the station (which is plenty). I am only reiterating the reply that was given when Henry's show was axed.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:24 AM

This will be a disaster if it happens. Folkwaves is, without doubt, the best folk programme on BBC radio, both on the national and local programmes (followed by Genevieve Tudor and Johnny Coppin and then by nobody else at all). Radio Wales still has Frank Henessy and Ulster/Scotland have Colum Sands and Barbara Dickson and sometimes Julie Fowlis but once again traditional music in England is being sold out by our own national broadcasters.   I thought the BBC's remit was to educate as well as entertain (covered in more detail in the comment above). I can understand that not everyone is entertained by folk music (after all I'm not in the least bit entertained by Radio1's music) but programmes like this should be retained for their significance if not their mass entertainment value.

It was this same BBC logic that caused Jim Causley to leave Radio Devon's Devon Folk. He was told that he needed to play less traditional (and local) music and play more "easy listening". Now we have ex-game show host Richard Digance presenting a programme. I complained to the BBC at the time but, naturally, without effect (story of my life) and I fear complaints to Radio Derby may be similarly ignored.

Still I'll send my comments to Mr Cornes.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:26 AM

Apart from the great music, and the chance for me to hear stuff that I had certainly never heard before and could not hear anywhere else, what about all of the advertising for local clubs that will be lost? Losing this programme will not only be a personal loss, it will also affect the whole of the folk scene in the Midlands, doing damage. Terrible decision.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:33 AM

The diaries are a key factor with Folkwaves and help all folk clubs and performers in getting the gig info etc out to us locals.

Without Folkwaves and if Radio Lincolnshire stop the 25 minute folk programme on Wednesday evenings, then Lincolnshire will lose our only broadcasting means of informing the local folk community of what is going on.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,moira(flyingcat)
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:56 AM

letter and email gone off. So when are they going to axe that other minority interest music "opera" !


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: I don't know
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:15 AM

Try to listen to folkwaves every week even though it is not my area. The best folk program by far, letter being sent, but unfortunately I think we will all be to late to save it.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:16 AM

Mmmm. Sort of guessed this might be happening when the BBC closed their F&A forum, a month or so ago. (closely followed by Radio 3 closing their World Music version.)
Has Genevieve Tudor survived the axe?
Sadly, although I've sent an E Mail, I hold out little hope, unless we can get the level of support that the Save 6 Music campaign managed, and I fear that to be unlikely (and 6 music survived only by the skin of it's teeth anyway).
I tend to agree with moira, why not axe Radio 3, if you want to get rid of minority music with very few listeners.
And to think that I almost considered a job at Radio Derby many years ago....Glad I didn't now...


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,MC Fat (at work)
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:17 AM

This is really bad news. Folkwaves is a really well produced show and in fact it's broadcasting area should be widened to Sheffield and beyond not being cancelled.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:50 AM

I have spoken to BBC Radio Derby. They confirm the show is due to be axed. The woman I spoke to said she thought it was the end of January.

They are currently preparing a press release - ring up and ask for a copy to be emailed to you.

Also you might consider complaining to Feedback - produced by Whistledown Productions. This cannot be anything to do with saving money - the show must cost very little.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Surreysinger
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 08:15 AM

@ Ralphie: I don't think the closure of the message boards is necessarily related. All of the Radio 2 and 3 boards (not just the World Music one) were closed ... I doubt very much that the whole of Radio 3 is for the chop. Interestingly the only music board left seems to be for 6 Music.

Is there any high profile politician that supports folk music who could be asked to assist in lobbying the Beeb? This programme isn't just a local thing, thanks to the net (in fact I think there are some international listeners like Conrad), and it's closure has much wider implications. I've sent in a complaint of my own ... but sadly, based on the happenings of the mid 1990's I suspect it's going to have little impact. (However, doing nothing at all, of course, has even less). :-(


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:10 AM

Gutted.
Have e-mailed Radio Derby. But I don't anticipate a reprieve.
Dave B.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:17 AM

I phoned Radio Derby, the receptionist just referred me to the email system, so filled in the on-line form, and then got automated response telling me it was unlikely they would respond to individual emails. a strongly worded letter will be despatched!

I notice, incidentally, that some months ago, you could click on local and regional radio from the main BBC home page, and then click Radio Derby. Now, when you try and access local radio from the homepage, they just ask for your postcode/town so that they can connect you with your local radio station. Well, I don't want the local radio station, I want Radio Derby. Have the BBC website people not heard of t'internet? or the iPlayer?
Derek


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Acorn4
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:04 AM

We could try a mass inundation of Christmas cards to the show:-

Address is:-


Mick Peat, Leicester Simpson, Folkwaves, BBC Radio Derby, St Helens Street, Derby DE1 3HL.

It's one way of showing how many people like the show.

Unfortunately it's part of a trend to replace any presenters who have any personality with young people who just witter!


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:12 AM

I suspect they were getting fed up of people calling them!!


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:14 AM

They are not being replaced. The show is being axed. I agree about the Christmas cards.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:15 AM

I've only just been alerted to this. Funnily enough I was listening to Monday's programme this morning whilst writing my Christmas cards so I included one to them as they were asking for cards so they knew how many people actually listen to them.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,olgaj
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:16 AM


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,OlgaJ
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:17 AM

Sorry - that was me. I seem to have lost my cookie.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:37 AM

Here is the BBC statement regarding your enquiry about BBC Radio Derby's Folkwaves programme:

"A BBC Spokesperson said:

Radio stations regularly review their programming, and after a wide ranging review of evening programmes in the East Midlands, we are extending the hours of broadcast to 1am and providing a new early-evening programme designed to appeal to a wider number of licence fee payers."

ENDS

"I have also checked and the changes take place from the start of the New Year and the last programme goes out on BBC Radio Derby on 27th December. This announcement relates to the East Midlands only."

I asked if a BBC Spokesman was prepared to come onto my radio show and defend the decision. Here is what they said.

"I'm afraid it wont be possible to put up a BBC Radio Derby spokesperson on your show unfortunately."


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Acorn4
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:55 AM

"designed to appeal to a wider number of licence fee payers."

Yet more lowest common denominator stuff then.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: open mike
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:59 AM

link to the show's page here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/radio/bbc_radio_derby
(including links and contact info)

link to the latest archived stream here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00cfk1v/Folkwaves_06_12_2010/

listen while you can and hope for the show to be saved!!


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 12:01 PM

Acorn4. Great idea, but please can we get the names correct before sending off, otherwise they will just laugh at you.

"Mick Peat, Leicester Simpson, Folkwaves, BBC Radio Derby, St Helens Street, Derby DE1 3HL"

It should be

Mick Peat & Lester Simpson, Folkwaves, BBC Radio Derby, St Helens Street, Derby DE1 3HL


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: open mike
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 12:07 PM

listening and enjoying now!


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Acorn4
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 12:31 PM

Sorry about the Leicester/Lester mistake - yet more onrush of senility - It's because it's where I live.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: RamblinStu
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 01:11 PM

Very sad news indeed

I suspect that some overpaid accountant type prat has been blue sky thinking, evaluating the situation by rationalization and presenting an onward business plan. As well as talking more management bollix than you can shake a stick at, to justify their position, this person has decided to take this course of action because, in their eyes, folk is an easy target.

Well we're not

Lets do our best to keep this wonderful programme going

My email and letter have been sent


Stuart Pendrill


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 01:17 PM

I guessed it was that Acorn4 :-)


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Sugwash
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:32 PM

Bounce


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:34 PM

I've sent Radio Derby an email but as others have said I don't hold out much hope. In my experience the people who do these things have no connection with reality, still less any interest in music.   

I did point out that a couple of weeks ago Bellowhead sold out the Darwin Suite in Derby so there might be a market for folk music locally but then they've probably never heard of Bellowhead.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:37 PM

Please join the Facebook page called Save "Folkwaves"


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: EnglishFolkfan
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:15 PM

I have just seen this thread. This is dire news. I suspect that MoorleyMan may have hit on part of the plan by mentioning sport. As someone in Shropshire I listen to Folkwaves via t'internet & indeed record the programme using a nifty piece of software on my iMac but I have to remain aware when Notts, Derby or Leics are broadcasting footie so that I'm recording Folkwaves from the appropriate transmitter & not dread sport.

I've not heard any whispers about Radio Shropshire removing Genevieve Tudor's Sunday Folk. I will stick my neck out and say I doubt it would happen as Genevieve is a BBC Shropshire employee and works on other programmes too. I suspect this is the problem for Radio Derby in that the presenters are 'guests' not full time staff and, as such, easier for the accountants to remove when dealing with bottom line sums, regardless of the programmes significance in BBC English airwaves Folk broadcasting.

How blooming ironic this news comes out on the week BBC Four TV will be screening 2 Folk Dance programmes praising the importance of Regional Folk and archive film on UK Folk in the 50's, 60's & 70's:

BBC Preview videos
The Most Unusual Dance in England? - Still Folk Dancing...After All These Years

The Ancient English Horn Dance! - Still Folk Dancing...After All These Years

Folkwaves is another upset on this day of awful news for those of us who believe in a free at the point of contact UK Education for all especially Music and the Arts. This could become nigh unobtainable at University level even if the Universities can afford to run the courses. What are the chances of the Newcastle Uni Folk Degree remaining viable anyone?


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:21 PM

Email and Christmas card going out from Colorado. Do they really want the Colonies laughing at their stupidity? Thanks for all of the contact info, etc.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: DebC
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 08:41 PM

And one going out from Massachusetts. Mick and Les kindly interviewed me on their show back in '05 when I was doing a gig at the Derby Gaol. We had a lovely chat and I have since listened to the show when I can.

Debra Cowan


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: KathWestra
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:30 PM

I listen to Folkwaves every week from Maryland (in the aforementioned colonies). Mick and Lester present by far the finest selection of traditional music and tradition-influenced contemporary folk I've ever been privileged to hear on the radio. United States public radio stations have long since deep-sixed any diverse programming like this in favor of news and talk programs, and I've come to rely on Mick and Lester's "Folkwaves" to hear artists I never would have known about otherwise. Hearing them on this program has led me to order CDs of new-to-me performers from the Living Tradition's "Listening Post" catalog, and given me a broader perspective on who's singing/playing what, not just in the U.K., but here in North America (Mick and Lester frequently feature U.S. and Canadian singers and instrumentalists). Archie Fisher did that, too, until BBC Scotland decided to "retire" his long-running Traveling Folk. Decisions like this affect the survival of traditional music (who can understand--or even know about--what they never hear?) and the livelihoods of those that perform it. Shame on the BBC! Letter on its way across the pond. Thank you, Lester and Mick, for all these years of wonderful music.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 02:32 AM

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Folkwaves-on-BBC-Radio-Derby/173039876049804?v=wall


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: SRD
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 03:55 AM

>>GUEST,Dave Eyre - PM
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:50 AM

I have spoken to BBC Radio Derby. They confirm the show is due to be axed. The woman I spoke to said she thought it was the end of January.

They are currently preparing a press release - ring up and ask for a copy to be emailed to you.

Also you might consider complaining to Feedback - produced by Whistledown Productions. This cannot be anything to do with saving money - the show must cost very little.<<

Unfortunately Feedback has just finished its latest run so any reaction from them will be well after the time this is all done and dusted.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,GuestSG
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 04:37 AM

Who arrived at this disgraceful decision? How can they possibly justify the removal of one of the best produced and presented shows, hosted as it is by two expert, experienced performers such as Mick and Lester? Presumably, as there seems no suggestion or likelihood of of the removal of other "specialist" music programmes from the schedules, e.g. Tuesday's Country music show, Wednesday's "Celtic Fringe" or Thursday's "Jazz Incorporated", it is a clearly discriminatory act against one form of "minority" music. There can be no possible grounds for removing Mick and Lester, they are just so good at what they do: they are not being moved aside in favour of others, it seems as if it is just a case of "picking on" an easy target. The question of cost is irrelevant: The presenters are free-lance and cost a fraction of what it costs to produce other shows: whatever is put in its place will almost certainly cost more than "Folkwaves". Just a thought - as "Folkwaves" is the only East Midlands programme broadcast from B.B.C. Radio Derby, maybe protestations and representations to the remaining B.B.C. East Midlands local stations( i.e. Radios Nottingham, Leicester and Lincolnshire) might perhaps help ? No, thought not, but you never know.............


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 05:34 AM

S.G please see my post from yesterday regarding how "Folkwaves" evolved. We could try the other stations but history would say that we would be pissing in the wind.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,MC Fat (at work)
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 05:59 AM

I too am flabbergasted. Having been on the programme and seen how it works Lester and Mick are true 'professionals'. They appear to receive very little help at the station so it must cost peanuts to the Beeb. What a bunch of short sighted pricks the management must be.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Mitch the Bass
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 06:16 AM

I've quickly put together a set of forums at http://www.folkwaves.co.uk

There's a general discussion area and one for each of the "Gig Guide" areas so that event organisers can advertise. I'll add an event calendar when I've time and make the site sexier.

I've also sent a mail to Mick (well Celia actually) and asked him to mention the site on the programme.

Mick told us (The Derbyshire Volunteers) on Tuesday night. Needless to say all were shocked.

Mitch


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 07:17 AM

How about suggesting something from the show is played on Radio 4's pick of the week? Might perhaps raise the profile nationally.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 11:23 AM

Seems to me that there is a sinister plot to deny people the right to listen to their own folk song and music and participate in social and traditional gatherings

I wonder just how many people on aweekly basis attend folk clubs, sessions and concerts and listen in to find out who is on where and what CDs and music is available and about forthcoming Festivals

We in England have seen the gradual disappearance of our folk national culture

Big business seems to have a strangle hold on the stuff THEY would like us to listen to, folk has been held down for far too long!!

Do the BBC not have a duty to preserve our English identity? folk music is little represented currently and over the years I have seen the demise of virtually all programmes in Yorkshire with support vested in Radio Derby!!

see also facebook

Ray


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 11:34 AM

I wonder if Radio Derby are planning to axe Folkwaves and bring in an alternative folk programme?


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 12:25 PM

To Glueman. The press statement read:

Radio stations regularly review their programming, and after a wide ranging review of evening programmes in the East Midlands, we are extending the hours of broadcast to 1am and providing a new early-evening programme designed to appeal to a wider number of licence fee payers.

More of what there is already. And still they haven't realised radio listeners do not pay licence fees.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 12:48 PM

It's shoddy however you look at it. Folkwaves and the occasional football commentary is the only local radio I listen to and I'm not even in the broadcast region.
Most BBC local radio presenters make Alan Partridge sound like Jacob Bronowski.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 02:03 PM

Hmm, I note with interest the post that mentioned
>>there seems no suggestion or likelihood of of the removal of other "specialist" music programmes from the schedules, e.g. Tuesday's Country music show, Wednesday's "Celtic Fringe" or Thursday's "Jazz Incorporated"<<.
That would imply discrimination purely on the basis of Folkwaves being on the wrong night of the week, the rationale being a similar one for that which took the Ayrton programme from BBC North - ie to broadcast a live sport programme instead on that particular night of the week.
But then there was this other quote: >>new early-evening programme designed to appeal to a wider number of licence fee payers<< - I wonder that this might contain, then?! A live broadcast of Strictly Come Something?
So we're none the wiser are we?

Why oh why does it always seems to be the case that the managers will pick on those very folks who do the job properly and professionally, yet who happen not to be "salaried broadcasting staff" - they obviously show the latter up for the amateurs they are. Mick and Lester are two of the finest and most able broadcasters/presenters/communicators on the planet, and they shouldn't have to take this kind of abject insult to their integrity lying down.
So anyway, I've emailed my protest, and urge us all to do likewise.
Power to the people!
MM


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Ken J.
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 03:42 PM

I sent a card from the USA today.

I am heartbroken. Folkwaves has become my favorite folk radio show; I have a ritual where I cue the replay up each weekend while I work on several sessions of kitchen chores. It's a big influence on my CD orders from the UK.

I've been listening to the BBC online since 2002 and this year it seems like the BBC world is moving in a bad way. Charlie Gillett died, Verity Sharp departed Late Junction, Archie Fisher was forced into retirement. Now DJ Ritu's world music show in Gillett's timeslot is to be axed along with Folkwaves.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: danensis
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 03:56 PM

I just tried to raise a formal complaint on the BBC website:
Complaints form

and got the message:

"The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later."

Is that everyone here complaining?


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: danensis
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 04:01 PM

I just mailed this. Thanks to those whose notes above I have pilfered!

I have just heard the news about the plans to scrap the Folkwaves programme on BBC Radio Derby, Leicester and Lincoln.

This is one of the finest folk music programmes on the radio.

I have listened to folk programmes on Merseyside, West Yorkshire and Humberside, but for depth of content and the knowledge of the presenters, there is nothing to match Folkwaves.

I do hope you will reverse this decision. At the BBC's annual Frank Gillard awards in 2009 the judges called BBC Radio Derby an "out and about station that feels well connected to its audience and its area with likeable presenters and good touches of humour". Folkwaves represents all this and more.

At a time when more and more young people are attending folk clubs, playing folk music, and joining in folk dance, it does seem a rather poor time to be axing this show, which fits so well with the BBC's remit to "provide opportunities for new and emerging musicians from the local area and support local arts and music events by providing event information".

The diaries are a key factor with Folkwaves and there are many events I have attended that I would not have known about had it not been for Folkwaves.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Brackenrigg
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 06:15 PM

Local radio (kickball) might be listened to by non-licence payers, but it is not run for their benefit. Only the licence-payer should have their say, and we are angry.

I am a little surprised about the lack of response from, shall we say, "famous names", the sort of people who are interviewed, performed live, and have tracks played regularly on Folkwaves, who will now have less pulicity and folk profile without the GigGuide. How else are clubs and sessions going to let everyone know in one place, what is going on?

I implore everyone to get as much mileage of publicity against this stupidity, as soon as possible, and get some Christmas cards sent to Folkwaves.

Long live Mike & Lester

Geoff Wright


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Acorn4
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 06:30 PM

Many of the "famous names" don't live in the East Midlands so may not realise yet, but will, I imagine, get involved once the bush telegraph gets the news around. They all have websites with how to contact them. It is getting increasingly hard for many of them to make a living, so it will be in their interest I would have thought.

I've already done a few.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 06:40 PM

danesis, I found the same if I followed the link and chose "complaint," but when I chose "comment" I got through just fine. If their complaint box is full, we can fill up the comments etc.!


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: RamblinStu
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 07:03 PM

I had the same prob as katlaughing, with the BBC's complaint form. I'll try again tomorrow

Meanwhile this is worth a look at


Save Folkwaves


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 07:48 PM

Another disgraceful decision by the BBC! A great loss to folk music locally and further afield. Mick and Lester have become members of our household!


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 04:27 AM

A number of local radio programmes take phone calls from their listeners. Perhaps we should ring into all progs. with 'ring ins' and complain and/or ask questions - maybe they will 'listen' then.
It would be tempting to accuse the BBC of prejudice against folk music or maybe it's more a question of fear of accusations of prejudice from other 'minorities'should they attack them - obviously 'English music lovers' are not a minority that the BBC worry about offending
chris


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Acorn4
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 08:54 AM

I emailed Show of Hands from their website and got a very quick reply:-


Dave
Anything I can say or do please let me know. Its an excellent show and deserves to continue.


Regards


Phil Beer

I'm sure many of the performers will get involved, but probably feel as helpless as the rest of us given the timescale. At least they have a bit of a platform to voice people's opinions of the whole thing from.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Acorn4
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 10:23 AM

By "PERFORMERS" , of course I men those with access to large audiences as with SOH.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 12:50 PM

PaulB
I have been thinking of ways of protesting and making an impact without the need to attack anybody

How about as many people as possible dumping, sorry recycling old radios each one with a "save folkwaves" label to radio derby offices en mass with some sympathetic press coverage.

Or perhaps a threat to have several morris sides following round the person who made the decision and dancing on every available occasion.

The person who decided to terminate folkwaves is not the same bbc pinhead who assassinated Tony Capstick of bbc Sheffield is it?

Yours in both sorrow and anger
Grumpy Pablo


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Joules
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 07:28 AM

I have also tried on a couple of occasions to make a formal complaint on the BBC official complaint form, but I too am having the same problem as everyone else. Maybe this is not just coincidence ?
A few "names" are posting comments on the facebook page but I think we will need a lot more so please pass the word around


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Acorn4
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 01:59 PM

Apparently it is now known on "Britfolk" which a lot of the artists use, so they will be wading in with their protests hopefully.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,John Greenwood
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 05:47 PM

I am appalled at this act of vandalism. Why can't Folkwaves be rescheduled to a later time, rather than being replaced? That way the new programme (sport or whatever) can take the air whilst Folkwaves listeners can either tune in live at the new time or 'Play it again, Sam' via the BBC iplayer as many do now. Rather than a 'fait accompli' that sounds like a workable compromise (or am I being naive in thinking that a way to retain Folkwaves can be found?


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: brother
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 06:12 PM

This is without a doubt a ridiculous move. As someone who drives long distance , I listened to a lot of Radio , I say listened , because the standard of London Radio ( radio 4 ,radio 2 etc) is so awful ,that I take talking books . Folkwaves was something to look forward to as I drove through that area ,and was also able to catch it on the web.Complaints?? I think the answer is usually " our research has shown etc" Why not go to the next logical step and transmit muzac.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Acorn4
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 07:28 PM

The sport thing hasn't really been a big issue. Leicester, Forest and Derby have never all played on a Monday at the same time, so with increasing internet radio listeners have always been able to tune in to one of the others, or "listen again"".

We support Leicester City and love Folkwaves, and it has not been a major issue although I know Mick and Lester have madde the odd barbed comment.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 04:19 AM

Just tried the BBC Complaints form from danensis's post and it worked fine.
I'll post the response when/if I get one.
My fondest memory of the show was when Barry Coope and Lester were presenting and they played the Kipper Family's Lightweight Dirge.
The song contains a low level expletive. But, because of the time of day they were obliged to use a bleeper to cover the word.
Thanks to the wonders of live radio and Barry's (or Lester's) near perfect timing, they bleeped out the word before the expletive and left the expletive on the air.
Keep up the good work Mick and Lester.
Looking forward to listening-in tonight.
Dave B.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,S.G.
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 04:23 AM

The decision to axe "Folkwaves" was not even made at Radio Derby. Apparently the person responsible is Stuart Thomas, Head of Regional and Local Programmes, Nottingham. His e-mail adress is:-
stuart.thomas@bbc.co.uk - I'm reliably informed that he is "a decent chap" - I think we need to put that to the test right now.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Sugwash
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:35 AM

Thanks for that SG, I've fired off an email to Mr Thomas, I can only hope that he reads it and takes note.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 08:34 AM

Just got this e-mail back from

Thanks for getting in touch about the planned changes to our evening schedule.

Over recent months we have carried out a full review of our schedule after 7pm and, driven primarily by a change in listeners' lifestyles, we have decided to make a number of major changes.

The end of the "9 to 5" culture and the rise in people using the internet in the evening has led to a decrease in people sitting down to watch television together and an increase in the audience available to listen to the radio. With almost all commercial radio in the East Midlands no longer local or even regional in the evening, we feel it is part of our public service remit to now broadcast more accessible local radio into the evening rather than super-serving fans of a particular genre of music.

Clearly the loyal fans of the current output will be extremely disappointed by the ending of some very long running programmes; however, we have taken these decisions in a bid to serve a wider number of East Midlands licence fee payers at a time of day when there is now a genuine lack of "local radio".

The new schedule will allow us to react to breaking news in the region in a way that is currently impossible, it will allow us to broadcast through until 1am and it will allow us to introduce fully local news, rather than regional news, late into the evening later in 2011.

If you wish to make further representations about the planned changes, then Stuart Thomas is the Head of Regional and Local Programmes for BBC East Midlands. He can be contacted at BBC, London Road, Nottingham, NG2 4UU.

Simon Cornes
Editor
BBC Radio Derby

So make of it what you will.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 08:43 AM

it could be argued that broadcasting exclusively Pop/M.O.R. is super-serving the same sanitised genre that is being pushed out round every corner.

it seems very short sighted that rather than continuing the promote excellence in several genres (I assume Folkwaves isn't broadcast 24/7), the radio station is trying to compete for market share (listening & viewing) figures) with a 'me too' service.

Sad...


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: cobra
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 09:02 AM

I have just sent the following to Mr Cornes - many thanks for flagging up the issue on Mudcat - and \I would encourage others to publicise the planned closure as widely as possible. I will post any response from Cornes and/ or Peter Soulsby:-

"Mr Cornes,

I have today learned that BBC East Midlands is proposing to cease the above programme. If this is true it is an appalling act of vandalism on the part of the BBC regional authority. I am confident that the BBC local stations remit applies to this programme and, in particular, I would draw your attention to the following para:-.

"5.3 Stimulating creativity and cultural excellence: BBC Local Radio should contribute to this purpose amongst its audience. It should provide opportunities for new and emerging musicians from the local area and support local arts and music events by providing event information. Music output should be mainstream in peaktime and include specialist in off-peak hours. Specialist music should be appropriate to the area. Current and recent chart hits should represent no more than 15% of weekly music output."

I would be very grateful for advice from you as to how your decision in respect of "Folkwaves" delivers against this element of the remit.

I would also welcome information as to how and why this apparently unilateral decision has been taken - has there been any consultation on this matter? How much does the "Folkwaves" programme cost to deliver to your customers (sic)? What is the total wage bill for BBC East Midlands executives and producers?

What other Specialist programming programming is to be axed and can you oplease advise the basis on which each decision has been taken - listener base, cost, impact on local communities. In short, please share you business plan including any evideence of marketing intelligence you may have generated in the decision making process.

There is an increasing tendency to homogenisation of produect on BBC radio and it appears that there is a determination to ride roughshod over your listeners. I have to advise you that this is not always guaranteed to deliver desired BBC outcomes cf. the recent victory for listeners over the BBC 6 Music debacle.

You will wish to note that I am copying this e-mail to Sir Peter Soulsby, my MP. I will encourage the many fellow listeners to Folkwaves to do the same with their respective representaives.

In the meantime I look forward to your urgent responses to the questions raised in this e-mail,

Regards,etc


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 09:30 AM

Yep. I've just recieved the same response from Mr Cornes.
So, I've moved on to Stuart Thomas, specifically I want to know by what measure they think that the Folk genre is "Super-served"!

I anticipate a similar 'Party line' response.
But its good to 'rattle their cages' from time to time.

Good thinking cobra, MPs need alerting too.
I'll get on to Chris Williamson, my Derby North MP.

Cheers.
Dave B.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: autoharpbob
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 09:45 AM

I got the same standard reply from Mr Cornes, and think the points raised by cobra are excellent ones. I just want to make the point that folkwaves is a shared programme, broadcast by radio's Derby, Nottingham, Lincoln and Leicester, and so serves a huge area and population. I think they will find it very hard to serve a larger number - broadcasting the Forest game would hardly draw a Lincolnshire audience for example. This just seems to me a silly cut. Why not keep it, broadcast it at a different time, but at least we could get it on iPlayer?


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 09:54 AM

It's a one-size-fits-all response from Simon Cornes - I got it, too. It seems that they want to get rid of anything that doesn't fit the bland, generic content that they imagine everyone wants. So - we'll have a nation of radio stations all playing exactly the same stuff all the time. At this rate they may as well pack up and just have Radio Two. There's probably more folk on Radcliffe and Maconie than there will be on the brave new world of non-stop drive-time local radio.

Is there a future for folk, roots, world, jazz, blues and country shows? The decisions to axe of Folkwaves and A World in London and the justifications the Beeb are using suggests this may just be the tip of the iceberg.

Yet at the same time folk coverage on TV is having a mini-renaissance. Someone at the Beeb must think there's an audience for it.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 09:58 AM

Autobobharp makes a good point. Could the future of folk and other "specialist" broadcasting at the Beeb be about iPlayer-only shows and podcasts? That wouldn't be so bad for people who already like the music. Wouldn't attract much passing trade, though.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 10:11 AM

Yes, but it's hard to phone-in your event news to a podcast.
Still, better than nothing though.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 10:15 AM

Just had this from Stuart Thomas:

Dear Mr Naylor,
Thanks for getting in touch about the planned change to our evening schedule.

I know it is always very disappointing when a programme you enjoy comes to an end, but I can assure you we do not take such decisions lightly.

We have been reviewing our evening schedule for some time, aware that society has changed considerably in the decades since some of these programmes began, and also aware of the changes that have taken place this year in local commercial radio.

Although specialist music programmes like Folkwaves have been very popular with a loyal core of listeners, we feel that we now need to provide a programme that appeals to a wider number of licence fee payers in the East Midlands, especially as there are no longer any local or regional programmes available on commercial radio in the evenings. There are many more people available to listen to radio in the evening now, either because they're wanting something to listen to while using their computers, or because they are going to and from shift work, or just because the family don't all gather round to watch television together in the evening in the way they used to.

We also need to consider that a programme should be able to respond to breaking news in our region or big events like the recent snow, which at the moment we are unable to do.

There are many listeners to Folkwaves like yourself who listen online in both the UK and around the world, but my first responsibility has to be to the majority of licence fee payers in the East Midlands, and it is with them in mind that we are making this change.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Sooz
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 10:24 AM

I've had that response from both BBC Lincolnshire and Radio Derby. Haven't they all been busy this morning?


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 10:26 AM

And to me...

"To clarify, I think the phrase "super-served" is used to mean that we have been delivering a programme that fans of Folk will enjoy, but at the exclusion of many other listeners who may be looking to find something to listen to on their local station at that point in the day.

I'm sorry that the change to our programming has left you disappointed and hope you find something else in our offering to entertain you."

Not impressed.
Dave B.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: RamblinStu
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 10:49 AM

I too have had the same, replies (written by executive with a degree in bull sh*t), how disappointing, if not surprising

What they say is "TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT, WE DON'T GIVE A TOSS"

Time to take action chaps, keep on at then, keep up the pressure, lets make them see the error of the ways

Keep sending emails, they are free, so we can send loads of them. Send letters and phone up, just make our presence felt

If we do nothing they will get away with....

Stuart Pendrill


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 12:02 PM

You can post your gigs etc on this new website. Plase join and help build this website.

http://www.folkwaves.co.uk/


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Sooz
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 12:35 PM

Lincolnshire is broadcasting with Humberside in the evenings from January, if anyone wants to complain further, David Jennings is the Head of Regional and Local Programmes for BBC East Yorks and Lincs . He can be contacted at BBC, Queen's Court ,Hull , HU1 3RH


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,schlimmerkerl
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 12:53 PM

@ Arthur_itus— I went to the above website http://www.folkwaves.co.uk/, and tried to register. However, the characters in the "Confirmation Code" are absolutely unintelligible. I can't, for the life of me figure out what the proper characters are. Can anyone else? Give it a try. For goodness sake, this is a music site— not the Pentagon.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,jonthebeard
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 12:54 PM

Living in Tenerife, UK Folk Music is difficult to find but our local pub/restaurant (not in the main tourist areas, but "up the hill" towards the volcano, el Teide), is always packed.
We go there to hear good, acoustic music and Folkwaves is so often the spawning ground for ex-pat enthusiasm and inspiration for the next meeting.
Unfortunately our local venue can only hold such evenings in alternate weeks during the main holiday seasons, so we "Folkies" listen to BBC iPlayer to keep us up to date with what is happening in our "home" locations.
The level of disgust I have heard over the past few days from our regular visitors has been astounding. To get rid of Folkwaves has been likened to "the murder of an old and much loved member of the family".
This is one of the very few BBC programmes I have listened to over the past ten years since I moved here and it has been the basis of many musical discussions and rehearsals. Also it has generated new "folkies" and spawned CD sales over the past few years. Shame on the BBC. Maybe if they produced more CDs themselves they might see the relevance of such programmes as a means of selling the music.
Heaven forbid that they should be seen as commercial but it could generate money to keep such "minority" interests on air.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 12:58 PM

Could the BBC at least consider a compromise proposal to transfer the highly regarded Folkwaves team
to a weekly spot with a broader nationwide coverage of grassroots
and new recording artists 'Folk' on Radio 6 ?

It's decisions like this where BBC executives fail to demonstrate the intelligence
to enhance rather than diminish their reputation with license payers;
leaving the BBC constantly open to attack from right wing political enemies
[ahem.. allegedly..???] sponsored by 'off shore' commercial rivals.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 01:07 PM

Schlimmerkerl
Let me look into that and I will post back on here.
Thanks for reproting that.
When I joind I actually didn't have a problem. However, normally when you have that sort of coding, you normally have a voice option as well.
It is a new website and Howard Mitchell is still busy setting it up.
Best wishes
Les Worrall


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 01:11 PM

I am in contact with the originator of the website, so please allow a bit of time, so we can get back to you.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: danensis
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 02:04 PM

I think the BBC consider one letter is worth a hundred emails. They know it takes effort to compose a letter and put it in the post. Its also worth asking a few questions, so they have to send a personalised reply.

John


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 03:18 PM

Mitch the Bass, can you please look at your PM's please.
Les


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 03:34 PM

Having received the same reply from Simon Cornes, I've written to ask Stuart Thomas why the only alternative to "super-serving" my "particular "genre" is to decide not to serve it at all.

I also asked what had prevented them from moving it to a different time slot and pointed out that "the "gig-guides" broadcast in the programme are a valuable source of information on local events and that live interviews on the programme are with local performers or national performers who are performing in the local area."

I won't hold my breathe for a reply!


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: RamblinStu
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 04:07 PM

if any one has the email address of Mark Thompson, Director-General of the Beeb, we could all mail him and appraise him of our feelings.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,J Phipps
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 04:33 PM

I am gutted. Some wanker in regional and not apparently BBC Derby decide to go with the Yob appeal. I had already sent a Christmas card before the news got out. Two shows left and next week recorded. Folkwaves was the one thing that made Monday tolerable. This yob mentality is destroying England but it just another milepost in the downhill slide.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,schlimmerkerl
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:12 PM

@ Arthur–itus. It really is quite odd, and i was looking around for the voice option (i may have missed it). Thanks very much for your help.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,John Greenwood
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:15 PM

I have emailed a complaint to BBC Complaints citing clause 5.3 of the BBC local radio remit under the BBC Local Radio Service Licence as published by the BBC Trust issued 27 March 2009 viz:

5.3 Stimulating creativity and cultural excellence: BBC Local Radio should contribute to this purpose amongst its audience. It should provide opportunities for new and emerging musicians from the local area and support local arts and music events by providing event information. Music output should be mainstream in peaktime and include specialist in off-peak hours. Specialist music should be appropriate to the area. Current and recent chart hits should represent no more than 15% of weekly music output."

Stuart Thomas appears to be either ignorant of is flauting this mandatory obligation. In either case he is bringing the BBC into disrepute and is risking it being found to have failed to comply with its local radio licence.

I am promised a reply within 10 days which I will post on this site on receipt. If the reply is unsatisfactory I will then complain to the BBC Trust.

Mr Thomas should be in no doubt that he will be required to account for his actions and that the decision to axe Folkwaves is not a fait accompli.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:51 PM

Good stuff John, go for the juggler.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:06 PM

Schlimerkerl, do the following.

Enter all your details.
In the section where it says Confirmation Of Registration
Where it says, "If you are visually impaired or cannot otherwise read this code please contact the Board Administrator".

Board Administrator should be as a link. Click on it and send an e-mail to the administrator. Then wait for feedback.

Hope that helps.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: brezhnev
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:44 PM

It seems a bit unfair that while all other BBC local radio stations are under instructions from on high to divert their (dwindling) resources to breakfast and mid-morning 'shows', Radio Derby has got the cash to run new local programmes (which you'd think would mean more journalists/producers/newsreaders) all through the evening till 1 in the morning.

Or maybe what they mean by 'local programmes' is some Alan Partridge sound-alike talking bollocks in between endless Michael Buble tracks. And by 'local breaking news' they mean some sad listener ringing in to say "It's snowing outside my house and we haven't seen a gritter since 1947".

What a strange place Derby must be. No 9-to-5 culture, no watching the telly together, just people on their computers wishing they had something to listen to to fill the void...


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 07:00 PM

'What a strange place Derby must be!'

understatement of the century...?


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 01:51 AM

My Two pennorth!

Dear Mr Thomas.
Firstly a direct quote from the BBC's own Local Radio Charter.

Clause 5.3 of the BBC local radio remit under the BBC Local Radio Service Licence as published by the BBC Trust issued 27 March 2009 states

"5.3 Stimulating creativity and cultural excellence: BBC Local Radio should contribute to this purpose amongst its audience. It should provide opportunities for new and emerging musicians from the local area and support local arts and music events by providing event information. Music output should be mainstream in peaktime and include specialist in off-peak hours. Specialist music should be appropriate to the area. Current and recent chart hits should represent no more than 15% of weekly music output."

And surely this is the point. Folkwaves ticks all the boxes, and more, by spreading the name of Radio Derby not only throughout the UK, but worlwide too.
I have read some of your replies to others, and would like to take you up on some of them.

1. "We have to appeal to the majority of license payers"
Well, forgive me, but the Radio Broadcast License was abolished years ago!!

2. "We need to reflect, breaking news and other stories."
Fair enough, If the news is of national importance, or the weather has disrupted transport in the region, as in recent weeks.
I'm sure Mick and Lester would be only too happy to juggle their programming. I know that they have happily given up the show completely for the occasional important FA cup game, etc. Thats the beauty of Live Radio, It's flexibility.
If the Queen was ill, or the Government were defeated, etc, Of course the show would be postponed to make way.
(I was on duty at BH when Diana died....All of the National Radio schedules were torn up, and quite rightly so.)
But, in reality, does anything of that importance happen every Monday in Derby?

It would seem to me that this is a cost cutting excersise. I will await with interest to see how you will replace Folkwaves. If it is another minority interest music programme, a discussion could be had on the merits or otherwise of a change, but at least it would be something....maybe an Asian music show. I wouldn't argue against that, I'm sure that your Asian community would embrace it...I'm also sure that Mick and Lester wouldn't be averse to widening their horizons even more, perhaps sharing time with an Asian music specialist..Multiculturalism at work, perhaps. Radio Derby could become a trend setter, The first Radio station to put Traditional English folk alongside Bhangra...(Oh, Sorry, Andy Kershaw, John Peel, and Late Junction did that years ago)

I fear though that it will be the cheapest form of programming available to Local Radio...."The Phone-In"

If this is a cost cutting excersise, it makes perfect sense, Phone -ins are cheap.
But so is Folkwaves. The only cost to Radio Derby for Folkwaves (a cost, no doubt shared among the three stations that recieve it) are PRS/MCPS payments. And this would be true, if it were to be replaced by another music show.
As far as I know, none of the people involved in Folkwaves are BBC employees, and are unpaid, which makes it less messy to get rid of them.

I think that the audience for Sport and Phone-Ins are perfectly catered for by 5-Live, and on the rare occasion that Derby or Notts Forest FCs have an FA Cup replay, then Folkwaves would step aside.
No. I fear It's going to be a Jeremy Kyle style phone In, pandering to the lowest common denominator of listener.

Just to let you know, I was a Group 2 Studio Manager in National Radio for 35 years, and I know all too well the machinations of BBC management, and I've heard all the excuses that come up with to justify their actions. Yes, I realise there is a license fee cap on the BBC, We must tighten our belts, etc...
Axe Folkwaves, and in a year the BBC would probably have saved enough money for one episode of Eastenders.
Oh, and like others, please don't dissapoint me with an automated reply. I'd rather you didn't reply at all.
So, please re-think this decision. Why not broadcast all your minority programmes between 2300 and 0100. After all, most people listen on line anyway, and are in very different time zones mainly. Particularly it's many fans in Europe America and Australia.
Getting rid of Lester and Mick, is not only getting rid of the Jewel in the Crown, It's also melting the Crown down for scrap.
I look forward to seeing your new schedule, and if it's a Phone In........ Expect some less kindly comments.

Looking forward to your considered reply

Yous Sincerely

Ralph Jordan (160340 retired)


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 02:01 AM

Don't know if there are any other iPM (Radio 4) listeners out there (if you don't know what it is, don't worry about it),
but I was thinking I might just send a "line" about being unhappy at the axing of Folkwaves to "Yournews"...

You never know -- if they get similar emails from a number of folks, they might be interested enough to look into it.
Then again, if they get a bunch of emails, they might decide it's a campaign and just ignore it -- but what have we got to lose?


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 03:06 AM

Chris Williams MP (Derby North) has replied:
"Thanks David. This is bad news. I will make representations myself."
Wee shall see...


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,S.G.
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:00 AM

Sad to think that following last night's broadcast there might only be two more editions of "Folkwaves" to go - some very interesting choices of songs too - if only those cloth-eared "suits" had heard it. The manner in which the programme was presented was a testimony to the professionalism of Mick and Lester - they certainly didn't let the side down, even after the way they have been treated.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,GUEST.B.I
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:22 AM

Dear Mr Imrie,

I know it is disappointing when a much loved programme comes to an end, and I always knew that taking Folkwaves off air would be a controversial decision among its core fans.

However, we beleive it's time to reach out to a wider variety of people in the early evening and create a new schedule for 2011.

Unfortuately, we don't have any spare broadcasting capacity to move Folkwaves elsewhere in the schedule.

On your point about internet reach, BBC Radio Derby, Nottingham and Leicester are part of BBC News and exist to serve local audiences, not to produce programmes that appeal to people all over the world.
My email to Stuart Thomas got the following reply.
Bob

While it is nice that people outside the East Midlands can hear our programmes via the iPlayer, I don't see it as a badge of honour if people are tuning in from all over the world - instead it makes me question if the programme is truely serving local audiences. The part of the licence fee that funds the BBC in the East Midlands is there to serve audiences in the East Midlands, and I take the responsibility of spending that money very seriously. I beleive it's important that as many people as possible should be served by the BBC in the East Midlands as possible.

Best regards


Stuart Thomas


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,MC Fat (at work)
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:24 AM

Belting reply Ralphie


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:47 AM

While it is nice that people outside the East Midlands can hear our programmes via the iPlayer, I don't see it as a badge of honour if people are tuning in from all over the world - instead it makes me question if the programme is truly serving local audiences. The part of the licence fee that funds the BBC in the East Midlands is there to serve audiences in the East Midlands, and I take the responsibility of spending that money very seriously. I believe it's important that as many people as possible should be served by the BBC in the East Midlands as possible.

He is talking complete horlicks of course. If the programme was listened to by hundreds of thousands of people then he would think it was great.

The whole point of putting material on the internet is to widen audiences. So why put it on the internet if that is not the reason?


BBC Boss Wants to Cut Audiences makes a cracking headline!


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:59 AM

I asked Stuart Thomas:
I wonder what research has suggested that fans of folk music are being "super-served" as stated in Simon Cornes' reply and why, even if this is true, the only alternative offered is not to serve this genre at all.

The current provision for this genre is 2 hours which, if the programme continued, would amount to about 1.5% of listening time. If the problem is that the programme is being broadcast at a peak listening time which you want to devote to local news, why is it not possible to move it to a different time slot? (Please also note that the "gig-guides" broadcast in the programme are a valuable source of information on local events and that live interviews on the programme are with local performers or national performers who are performing in the local area.)

He replied
I know it's always disappointing when a much loved programme comes to an end.

However we believe that the time slot should be serving a wider audience instead of only appealing to people who like a particular genre of music.

Unfortunately we do not have the airtime or broadcast capacity to fit these programmes into the schedule elsewhere.

Best regards


Stuart Thomas


I think one of us must be missing the point!

Still it must be irritating for him to have to get some skivvy to keep sending out replies.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: RamblinStu
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:01 AM

In response to my email to Stuart Thomas "It must prove difficult to replace a successful, interesting and popular programme, with ones which will be inferior in every respect, How do your justify that?"

I recieved this reply

Stuart,

Clearly we would not be changing the programme if we thought the replacement would be inferior. Our motivation is simply to make sure we use our valuable airtime to serve as many people in the East Midlands as possible. There's little point in "public service broadcasting" if a large amount of the public aren't listening.

Folkwaves is interesting, it is popular with a core loyal audience but we believe that we should now be providing a programme of wider appeal to all licence fee payers in that slot.

Stuart Thomas

Interesting eh

Stuart Pendrill


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Sugwash
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:12 AM

I got the same reply to my email: While it is nice that people outside the East Midlands can hear our programmes via the iPlayer...

I replied:

"Whether you like it or not, my licence fee goes towards funding local radio all over the country. It is rare for me to find a programme that I don't mind that outrageous fee going towards. As you point out yourself, the way people consume media has changed. By seeking to be parochial you are ignoring the fact that Folkwaves, along with many other excellent local radio shows, are made available globally via the iPlayer. Unless you go to the lenghts of issuing a pass code to local listeners, these shows are going to reach a global audience.

"You question whether Folkwaves is serving the local community. Just listen to the gig guides and what's on sections of the show and I think your question will be answered.

"I applaud your desire to serve the local community, but by axing Folkwaves you are denying that very community access to a valuable programme. By using a broad brush approach you are, in fact, appearing to be a bit narrow minded."



To his credit, he does seem to be answering his emails.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:19 AM

Dear Mr Thomas

Thank you for replying to my post here so quickly and in person.

"I can also assure you I don't have a "skivvy" sending out replies, I read and reply to each email myself.

Stuart"

I thought, since you are obviously now monitoring this thread, that I would reply here rather than via your BBC email address.

I still cannot see, in your reply to me, how you have justified replacing the "super-service" of the folk minority with no service at all and we can only agree to disagree that the Radio Derby schedule is so full of good programmes that serve the majority that there is no space left at all for Folkwaves.

Nevertheless, thank you for your prompt and personal reply.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:58 AM

The contempt by BBC officials for people who dare to listen to local radio programmes from outside the area is ... well ... contemptuous...

Remember my earlier posting?:
"I notice, incidentally, that some months ago, you could click on local and regional radio from the main BBC home page, and then click Radio Derby. Now, when you try and access local radio from the homepage, they just ask for your postcode/town so that they can connect you with your local radio station. Well, I don't want the local radio station, I want Radio Derby. Have the BBC website people not heard of t'internet? or the iPlayer?"

It therefore seems to be a deliberate act of policy to direct internet listeners to their local station.

I think the various BBC officials miss the point about the idea of Folkwaves being "local". Yes, it's content should, and does, appeal to the local audiences seved by radio Derby and the other stations that broadcast it (gig guides, local artists, national artists appearing locally, etc), but I believe that listeners in Canada or Newcastle or Qatar appreciate that it has a local flavour - not from THEIR local area, but from A local area - rather than some sort of bland mid-Atlantic X Factor slush....

Derek


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 06:05 AM

It is just utter rubbish coming back from Thomas & Cornes.

They are sitting there earning a nice tidy penny and being yes men to the powers above them. After all they need to pay their mortgages.

They have no interest in serving minority music or anything else like that.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: brezhnev
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 06:23 AM

Given that he's reading the thread, perhaps Mr Thomas might explain how it is that – at a time when BBC Yorkshire local radios are being forced into cutting their local output – Radio Derby is expanding and has some dispensation to pour licence fee payers' cash into covering local 'breaking news' in the evening and night-time - when news doesn't happen.

What exactly is this 'programme of wider appeal' that he's got in mind for the people of Derby?


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Sugwash
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 06:44 AM

"What exactly is this 'programme of wider appeal' that he's got in mind for the people of Derby?"

I don't know what they are planning to replace Folkwaves with, but I'd lay money that when it too gets axed for the next 'big idea', the 'wider audience' to which it is to appeal won't be clamouring to save it. Of course, I could be wrong...


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Millindale
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 06:57 AM

Ihave fired off an E-Mail to stuart.thomas@bbc.co.uk as follows. I realise it is specific to myself but there may be aspects of it which could be incorporated into others E-Mails in support of the best folk music show on the BBC.

Mr Thomas I am writing to you to complain about the decision to axe Radio Derbys Folkwaves show. I am a resident of North Yorkshire but listen to Folkwaves every week through the BBCs iPlayer. I used to listen to Radio Humbersides Henry Ayrton show- but it was axed. I used to listen to the folk show on Radio York- but it was axed. I used to listen to Alistair Andersons Folk show on Radio Cumbria- but it was axed. I used to listen to the folk music programme on Radio Sheffield- but that too was axed. Is it the intention of the BBC to remove all vestiges of British traditional music from the airwaves? I am a license payer and feel that I am being cheated of listening to aspects of my cultural heritage and instead being fed middle of the road pap.
I refer you to the exract from the BBCs local radio remit below.

Clause 5.3 of the BBC local radio remit under the BBC Local Radio Service Licence as published by the BBC Trust issued 27 March 2009 viz:

5.3 Stimulating creativity and cultural excellence: BBC Local Radio should contribute to this purpose amongst its audience. It should provide ...opportunities for new and emerging musicians from the local area and support local arts and music events by providing event information. Music output should be mainstream in peaktime and include specialist in off-peak hours. Specialist music should be appropriate to the area. Current and recent chart hits should represent no more than 15% of weekly music output."


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,S.G.
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 07:12 AM

What is happening is nothing to do with any perceived need to serve the listeners better or to provide the "licence payers" with an improved service. Though all of those concerned reply with their standardised responses, that it is as a reult of a "wide-ranging review", the fact of the matter is that such actions are ingrained into the BBC philosophy. Ambitious BBC employees gain no kudos by presiding over a continuing success - they have to be seen to be proactive and so changes are made for changes sake, (or at least for the benefit of those having the power to make such changes). They are then senn to be "doing something", thus justifying their inflated salaries and improving their chances of promotion. ( and I have come to this conclusion through personal experience). All of which is good reason for not having some of these people in the first place! Perhaps that is how the licence payers would benefir most as there would be no need to employ those who have to justify their positions by tinkering with things of which they have little or no understanding.
But then, they DO always know what's best for us, don't they?


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,MC Fat (at work)
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 07:41 AM

Perhaps it might be an idea to inform the 'powers that be' the numbers of posts on this thread in such a short time.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Bernard
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 07:49 AM

Previous experience shows that the 'powers that be' have already made up what passes for their minds, and will not be swayed by public opinion - despite the fact that we licence payers provide their fat salaries!


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 07:52 AM

Reading various of the posts above it strikes me that Radio Derby are panic stricken at having somehow produced a program that is not only of regional standard but national standard and they are trying to reduce the quality of their output back to something only suitable for their local listeners!
Either this is a slur upon the populace of Derbyshire or they believe that they cannot take the pressure of having such a widely loved program on their station.

If it is replaced by a phone-in program as Ralphie suggests likey, what would happen if their phone lines and email inbox were swamped by listeners requesting their favourite folk track?


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,S.G.
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:00 AM

Indeed, it might be worth drawing the attention of "the powers that be" to the numbers here, unfortunately I fear that they have no interest in nor will they take any notice of evidence: they see a need for change and will continue to ignore us. However, doing nothing is certainly not an option - maybe if we did keep reminding them of clause 5.3 of the Local Radio remit, ignoring their own words must be harder for them, mustn't it?


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:09 AM

The same situation from the jazz perspective.

"Dear All
BBC East Midlands Radio has decided to axe all it's specialist music programmes that b/cast on week day night's from 7 - 9pm from 31st of December this year, and of course that includes 'Jazz Incorporated'.
Past management, perhaps recognising the licence payer should have a choice, supported a Jazz programme on Radio Nottingham in various forms for 38 years and for the past few years 'Jazz Inc.' was b/cast to Radio Lincoln, Leicester and Derby, as well as Nottinghamshire, and the programme was available 'on line' and 'listen again'.

'Jazz Inc.' went out 'live' on Thursday evening every week from the BBC Radio Nottingham studio's, I scripted the programme, selected the music using my own CD's (some provided by suppliers) , operated the desk, produced the programme (whatever that means!), even made my own coffee! I was the sole member of the 'team' listeners used to refer to. Nobody from the BBC management ever queried what I was going to play or say on the programme, and wherever possible 'Jazz inc' promoted the local Jazz scene with the gig diary, playing CD's by Jazz artists appearing in the East Midlands.

This above is not meant as a 'self promoting' exercise, but just to say that we as Jazz fans have really lost a great deal with 'Jazz Inc.' finishing completely, it was totally independent, no commercial restraints or interference, just a Jazz fan playing the music to like minds. Hopefully my enthusiasm came over on the 'live' programme, I know it gave me an incredible 'buzz'!

'Jazz Inc. will never re-emerge, with BBC East Midlands Radio finishing it's specialist music programmes, it's the end of an era on OUR Local Radio, the days of the enthusiastic knowledgeable presenter broadcasting music under the conditions I've just described above are over.

Sadly, despite me putting up a spirited defence (and no doubt the 'Folk' 'Country and 'Celtic Fringe' presenters did the same) management had made their minds up that the licence payers in the East Midlands would be better served by extending the Radio Nottingham daytime listening programmes into the evening schedules. Enjoy!

Regards
                Chris Moore (presenter BBC East Midlands 'Jazz Incorporated')

P.S. If you feel strongly about this please address your remarks to BBC Radio Nottingham Management, I'll be making an announcement to listeners in the next Jazz Inc. programme. Thanking you in advance for your support, though It'll be to late to alter minds, and feel free to forward this e-mail to any 'like minds'."


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Lucy Wright
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:30 AM

This makes me so sad.. i just sent off a few emails to register my disappointment, but don't expect any great insight or result from them. What does it take for our voices to be heard?!!


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: brezhnev
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:40 AM

so it's evening phone-ins not just for derby, but nottingham and leicester too. you lucky people!


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:40 AM

Lets face it in England the BBC hate any minority music except classical. They only let the Mike Harding show go ahead because he plays so much pop, rock and C/W drivel, for fecks sake he even did a whole show of Beatles song, but the Beeb love it.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:44 AM

The community sports centre we attend in the evenings pipes constant local radio into the exercise studios and gym.
I don't know or care if it's a BBC or commercial station, all I do know is it's sonically harsh droning irritating non-stop inane brain numbing shit.

But, if this is representative of the intended target audience listening environment
then I suppose I can understand the poor quality decisions of insecure local radio executives
and why they are so anxious to drop 'serious minded' minority interest Folk and Jazz...


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:59 AM

.. and amidst this relentless onslaught of tinny chat and gossip drivel pumping out of room surrounding speakers;
and football and soaps monopolysing the silent TV screens hanging over the exercise bikes;
most of the people sweating it out exercising are obliviously occupying their own private little worlds,
earphones firmly plugged in listening to their own personal stereos.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 09:12 AM

Hey Breznev, don't you go forgetting Lincolnshire. :-)

We have a very thriving folk community and Folkwaves was included on Radio Lincolnshire.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Bernard
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 09:17 AM

Perhaps Mick and Lester could take heart from what happened in April 2006 at BBC GMR (now Radio Manchester again).

Ali O'Brien and I used to present 'Sounds of Folk' until the Beeb did exactly what they are now doing to Radio Derby, and axed all the 'Specialist Music' programming.

As the programme format, etc., is Ali's 'Intellectual Copyright' we simply moved the programme over to Oldham Community Radio 99.7fm, which is also streamed on the (internet), complete with 'Listen Again' going back to March this year!

They've even rearranged the schedule around us over Christmas and New Year - we're doing a two hour Christmas Special on Christmas Eve from 6.00pm to 8.00pm, which will be repeated the following Monday at the same time, and a New Year Special on New Year's Eve from 6.00pm to 8.00pm, also repeated on the following Monday.

We only ever experienced negativity and complaints from the management at the Beeb... at Oldham Community Radio the station manager, Dave McGealy, often sends us text messages to say how much he and his wife are enjoying listening to the programme...

Would we go back to the Beeb? Not a chance - they kept cancelling our programme at short notice for 'sports coverage'...!! The equipment we're using is first class - state of the art Soundcraft digital broadcast desk and P-Squared's 'Myriad'... we couldn't be happier!


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: brezhnev
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 09:17 AM

Ooops! sorry, lincolnshire, you're getting a phone-in too.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 09:21 AM

Don't forget to rattle your MP's cages too.
If you don't know who it is you can find their addresses at:
http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/

Cheers.
Dave B.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 10:02 AM

Schlimerkerl, The 3d picture with the letters and numbers, have been changed to 2d and should be easier to see now. Give it another go.


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Subject: Folklore: Folkie In group mentality causes cuts
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:00 AM

Yes indeed even in England.....where folkies have been assuring me ad nausium that the community is large and strong and expanding.....a folk program which was excellent is being canceled- Folkwaves- a very good program. They have sent me off to buy more cds than I have purchased in years. The reason- essential cuts in "minority programming" There are not very many BBC folk programs so the loss of two hours once a week is a big deal.

so there you have it- the concept that folk music is best when a small moribund small never expanding poltically selective community keeps the genre minority and then when cuts come the folkies narrow as they are get axed.

We have to expand. this means accessibility, lower costs, a living music, political diversity and less emphasis on performing as a business. it must be in the community living. it must grow.

Conrad


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:02 AM

To those of you suggesting that "it might be worth drawing the attention of "the powers that be" to the numbers here," – certainly Mr Thomas is already aware of the Mudcat thread as he has replied to my posts placed here.

I can see that Radio Derby or even the East Midlands region is unlikely to be swayed by much of what has become a lament for the lack of folk music nationally on the BBC and, probably, any arguments put forward need to concentrate on the local nature of Folkwaves if they are to carry any weight.

It seems that Folkwaves has been providing what the national BBC stations have failed to do. More credit still to Mick & Lester but still no good news for us previously super-served minority.


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Subject: BS: Narrow Minded Folk World Looses Program
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:43 AM

As many know- the BBC has cut the wondrous programme Folkways.
The reason cited- minority interest programming must be cut.

This supports my long held point of view that the folk music community needs to be less narrowly defined, more politically divers, more tolerant of non professionals and more accessible to all income levels-lower prices at venues, smaller audiences, less pro more every day. Less performance only more a way of life.

the cutting of folkwaves for the reason cited underscores the danger in the common view that folk music "is not for everyone" and that it can manage as a small select group which is not politically diverse and that professionalization and rising costs of venues do not matter.

When the community remains minority it can not be sustained.

Conrad


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:55 AM

Listened to the beginning of the end show today via play it again.
It is indeed sad.

I would however recommend that any and all folk presenters in the UK working with bbc make full and active use of networking sites like facebook and twitter not just when they are going down the tubes but every programme.

one good example of how this works is Sunday Folk. Ms Tudor does a great job of integrating the programme with the facebook community live.not perfect as there could be a bit more consistant interchange but gettin there..

i stopped in to Mick and Lesters facebook group page and found very little activity at all. i wont say that the inattention did them in but it did not position them as well as it could be.

Facebook provides an excellent free service that allows the presenter to connect with tousands. Ms tudor has also responded immediately to questions about the music in regard to sources and contacts and has incorporated the facebook banter into the show. this strategy puts the presenter on the best possible track. it also helps me get recordings sooner and complete important research efficiently.

another important thing to emphasis is the importance of folk music programs in the UK for cd sales and demand for concerts abroad. I started regular listening via the web about a year ago. My cd purchases have escalated at an alarming rate, ever since. Multiply this over a few hundred and it becomes an important part of the UK economy or at least the folkie economy.

Another huge problem is the reluctance of some folkies who expressed their opinions over and over on a related thread that there was nothing wrong with the folk world being small and politically narrow. There was nothing in their view wrong with playing in expensive rather than accessible settings.

Well folkies....that is why the BBC could use the theory that Minority programming could and should be cut.

Lower venue costs, broaden political expression, more ordinary players not so much emphasis on performers and you will see the folk music community grow.

Conrad


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 12:03 PM

Sorry for the many posts I intended them and sent them in as new thread I only wanted to create one thread discussing the importance of expansion of the folk world beyond the Minority programming that it is considered now. My posts were re directed here by the unseen hand.....

It is important to discuss the view by some that the folk world is ok as a small group with its politics and world view narrowly defined. When this happens we loose programming and other benefits.

Conrad


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,judy hardman
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 01:09 PM

I listen regularly to Folkwaves and don't know what I would do my ironing to if it goes. I have read all the suggestions in the thread and have now emailed, sent a Christmas card to Lester and Mick, signed the petition on the facebook page and am about to mobilise Black Annis (womens morris) to start stalking radio editors.....


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 01:18 PM

Direct militant action may be required at some stage.

Ready and prepare our most turgid and honking club ballad singers
to wrap up warm and station themselves with high power megaphones
24/7 outside the homes of key BBC senior radio executives...


..errrmm, on 2nd thoughts..???


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 01:32 PM

Conrad, I know you mean well, but, this time it's serious, and it's on our side of the pond. We really don't need your small world view of grass roots activities, laudible though they may be as a theory.
It's not just a Local Folk programme that's under threat here, It's every single specialist music. To be replaced by MOR Crap.
It's up to us Brits to fight this. Muddying the discussion with talk about dumbing down artists venues etc, is far from helpful at the moment.
Thanks, but No Thanks.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 01:41 PM

Ralphie, it's up to the mudcat mod, who apparently moved the entire contents of Conrad's new separate thread to this one,
to please show the good grace to rectify this swamping of well intentioned but not entirely relevant posts..


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 01:51 PM

I fully understand- its what I do.

In an earlier thread of amazing duration many argued for the preservation of the folk world as a small, specialized world that does not need to grow.

I think cancellation of this program should render that argument absurd.

The folk music world needs to grow and the way it does so is by way of increasing access. We need to draw lessons from the demise of folkwaves. The main lesson is that the folk world can not continue as a specialized lifeway. It needs to be more accessible and more politically diverse.

Whenever a government cuts something of value then those promoting that which has been cut has not been doing something right. It has not favorably influenced the powers of its importance. This does not mean it has to fundamentally change its contents but maybe change the way it is perceived. Bringing more people in would help but other subtle things can help as well. Often the problem is political perception. Why are folkies perceived as left wingers for example even though there is nothing really left wing about the music?

Politicos also tend to react to numbers. I was shouted down here by people telling me repeatedly that it is ok to remain small and exclusive. This does not help build numbers.

It is not a UK issue- believe me that even with the cuts your folk programming is much better than we have. Our local bluegrass folk all moved to digital radio and is not easily available except on line. We all have to work on it.

You cant just complain or lament. You have to find ways to make folk music indespensible- open it up, lower venue costs, remove any barrier to new people coming in, get everybody singing not just pros.
Demonstrate the economic importance of selling folk cds around the world via bbc programming. I think this is a big one. Folkwaves helped sell me on a large number of groups and sent me out to spend more than I normally would have.

Conrad


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 01:56 PM

Thanks erbert! Yes that is another problem they werent meant for here.
I am a listener to the show and I sent out a card and also contacted the relevant offices. The bbc is worldwide. We are part of one big folk community but our community needs to make sure that there is never anything blocking its growth.

Conrad


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 02:29 PM

Resonance FM is a London based arts radio station with internet broadcast anywhere and podcasts. Thursday, 16 December, 14:00 – 15:00
"The Traditional Music Hour brings you the best traditional music from the British Isles". I haven't listened to know how traditional but it sounds promising and most of their output is superb (try Voice on Record as an example).

http://resonancefm.com/schedule


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 02:33 PM

I see it had a mention Here


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,schlimmerkerl
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 02:48 PM

Thanks, Conrad.


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Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 02:49 PM

Shep Woolley does his own programme

http://www.expressfm.com/rooting-around-293063


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:20 PM

Anybody fancy going on this program tonight and talking about it. Radio Derbyshire covering Lincolnshire, Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire
21:00–00:00 Rob Underwood
14/12/2010
Amanda Bowman sits in. Join the conversation on 0845 303 9303 (local rate). .


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Folkiedave
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:12 PM

Just to let Conrad and the rest of the people know - community broadcasting has a number of folk shows and I know my own does exactly what he is asking for. I have a facebook page for the show, my own F/book page is open during the show and I do my best to answer any comments and requests on air.

There are a number of community radio folk shows which do much the same. You can find this week's playlist from last Friday under "Thank Goodness It's Folk" either on here or on Facebook.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 06:43 PM

Hmmm...specialist and minority music broadcasting is on the way out because there aren't enough of us who want to hear it...but look at who the Beeb want to recruit:

Senior Producer, Classical Music


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Dennis Cooke ........Down Under
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:37 PM

So sad to hear this news, I have enjoyed this program via the Internet for alot of years. To me it is the TOP Folk Show. It will be very sadly missed.....


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 06:38 AM

Seems to me we can write letters til we're blue in the face -- it's not likely to garner much media attention...

I am wondering what would happen if all the folkies in England decided to participate in an act of civil disobedience & not pay their licence fees -- on the grounds that the BBC is consistently axing all the programmes that interest them.

What can they do to you if you don't pay your licence fee & refuse to pay the fine? Can you end up in jail? Hundreds (maybe even thousands?) of people risking jail might be more "interesting" than people writing letters...


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 08:13 AM

Hi Vicky - great idea - but I don't pay a licence fee!!

There is a built in assumption that people own a TV set. I don't.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 08:15 AM

That last guest was me!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 08:53 AM

Don't think I saw a link to this.
BBC 2010/2011

Seems we (50 to 75) are the target local radio age group and the music will be more closely linked to Radio 1.

Shurely shome mishtake?

Al


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Folkiedave
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 12:35 PM

You can find an even more descriptive document here.

You might care to note especially paragraph 5.3 where "Folkwaves" ticks all the boxes perfectly.

The question then is - does this document have any meaning and if so who enforces it?


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 02:55 PM

The last programme is going out on Monday 27th December at 7pm. Should we all turn up outside Radio Derby and hold a 'wake' for 'the last show' and vocalise our support for the continuation of Folkwaves in some form (albeit if it has to go out at a different time). It's likely to be a light news evening just after Christmas s...o maybe we can get some media coverage (including by the BBC?!?!). Perhaps we could make it into an impromptu folk singing event?! The Flowerpot pub and live music venue is nearby. Perhaps we can use that as a meeting point from say 6pm. What do you think?


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 03:04 PM

How do we know you will turn up GUEST?


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,John Greenwood (Guest)
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 03:11 PM

I am floating this as an idea. If others express the intention to come along I would certainly be there.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 03:53 PM

I think the big problem is going to be the weather.

I am in North Lincolnshire and if we get this next round of bad weather, we coul dwell be marooned again.

It probably needs a commitment from Derbyshire.

It's a brilliant idea.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 04:25 PM

I just rang this program and they refused to let me talk about Celtic Fringe and Folkwaves. They have a phone in situation

Covers East Midlands
Radio Derby, Lincolnshire, leicestershire, Nottinghamshire
21:00
–00:00
...15/12/2010
Amanda Bowman . Join the conversation on 0845 303 9303 (local rate). .

Please start phoning.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 07:20 PM

Just a late night thought.
If the BBC axe all the minority musics from the airwaves....
Why not do a boycott. Every artist who is asked to perform, says NO!
Cambridge Fest....(and all the others) say NO!
Think about it people...Have you ever earned any money from Radio Broadcasts....?
Let us all Just turn our backs and say,,,,Thanks for the offer, but...No Thank You.
Then let the powers that be justify there existance..
We've got nothing to lose...


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Sid F
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 09:21 PM

I have not paid the license fee for several years as I got rid of my tv in protest at the BBC's biased and rather stupid political and cultural coverage plus their ridiculous extortionary and thuggish license enforcement wing. They send me letters - I send them back. Screw them - there is plenty of stuff on the internet if you look - and I think that local community radio might be a good way of getting minority musics out there. Resonance FM in London is very good for a variety of out/experimental musics/art and some folk music, for example. The BBC is an outmoded, embarrasing, top heavy organisation and hopefully will not survive in its present form much longer in a decentralised digital age. Radio 3 is not bad - the rest - forget it. I would be quite happy to pay a subscription for what I want to listen to - when they catch up, or someone with the will in government scraps the BBC in its present form.
Re Folkwaves, the BBC obviously regard this show (along with the jazz show from Nottingham which I listen to occasionally) as appealing to a small audience so a soft target. Top down, arrogant - but anyone who has studied the BBC has known this for years anyway, so it comes as no surprise. Refuse to pay!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 03:57 AM

Never owned a TV.

@ Sid - write to the TV licensing - you can do it as the occupier no need to say your name - and withdraw "Implied Right of Access".

They totally stop bothering you then. No more letters, no visits, nothing.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 07:53 AM

But writing to them will cost you a stamp.
I used an online form to tell them to stop bothering me. They still imply that they will send out a detector van to check up on me.
They might find that difficult as I am more than 1/4 mile from any public road.

I don't use Facebook as I mistrust the security of it and so it will be letters or phone calls or emails in order to contact them as far as I am concerned.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,judy hardman
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 09:24 AM

I think the mass protest at radio Derby is the best suggestion for raising public awareness of what is going on.

The trouble is we need to know there'll be a reasonable number there, otherwise if we send press releases etc and only half a dozen protesters turn up, we could have shot ourselves in the foot by proving we are indeed a minority audience who don't need to be super-served (whatever that is. yes I got the same letter from Simon Cornes)

So who's up for the wake? I will if you will.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 09:56 AM

I will endevour to be in the Flowerpot on Monday 27th @ 6pm.
The Flowerpot's a good place to be, anyway.
I am on an IT support rota that day, so may be interupted.
The other proviso is that there is no voilence or vandalism. But, protest songs more than welcome.
Dave B.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,OldNicKilby
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 10:16 AM


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,oldnickilby
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 10:22 AM

They are not axing all the minority music progs In fact the West Indian and the Gospel Music have been expanded to three hours each on Sunday.
Could there be just a little bit of Racial Discrimination here?


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 10:28 AM

I don't think so, Nick.
Just glad they're expanding some real music.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 11:20 AM

"West Indian and the Gospel Music have been expanded to three hours each on Sunday.
Could there be just a little bit of Racial Discrimination here?"


Knowing what a sensitive issue that is, especially in the midlands..
It's surprising certain usual factions from the murkier extremist regions of the political spectrum
haven't already raised their ugly voices here carping and inflaming passions for their own hate fueled ends.

Do you know what, I hazard a guess it just might be because
"West Indian and Gospel Music" has a popular happy pulsing beat and spirit
and is really very enjoyable for a majority of all sorts of folks to listen to at any time day or night.

But, it's still a great unjust shame, that for whatever cynical profiteering corporate suits reason,
'folk' music has to suffer complete abandonment from local airwaves.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 11:28 AM

I guess that if I were West Indian or a fan of West Indian music or Gospel music then this would probably be good news - however, I am neither. I am a lover of 'English' folk music and would very much like the opportunity to listen to 'my' type of music introduced by people who know something about 'my' music. I have been denied this opportunity by 'pap' producers (BBC programmers). It is extremely unlikely that I will listen to local radio again.
Disappointed
EX listener


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Ian Carter
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 12:03 PM

Just got a response from the Beeb, drivelling as usual:

Dear Mr Carter

Thanks for contacting us about 'Folkwaves'.

We raised your concerns with BBC East Midlands who reply:

"Thanks for contacting us about 'Folkwaves' on BBC Radio Derby.

"We know it is always very disappointing when a programme you enjoy comes to an end, but we can assure you we do not take such decisions lightly.

"We have been reviewing our evening schedule for some time, aware that society has changed considerably in the decades since some of these programmes began, and also aware of the changes that have taken place this year in local commercial radio.

"Although the specialist music programmes have been very popular with a loyal core of listeners, we feel that we now need to provide a programme that appeals to a wider number of licence fee payers in the East Midlands, especially as there are no longer any local or regional programmes available on commercial radio in the evenings. There are many more people available to listen to radio in the evening now, either because they're wanting something to listen to while using their computers, or because they are going to and from shift work, or just because the family don't all gather round to watch television together in the evening in the way they used to.

"We also need to consider that a programme should be able to respond to breaking news in our region or big events like the recent snow, which at the moment we are unable to do.

"Whilst we understand some of these current programmes have a large following around the world on the internet, our first responsibility has to be to the majority of licence fee payers in the East Midlands, and it is with them in mind that we are making this change."

We'd also like to assure you that we've registered your complaint on our audience log. This is a daily report of audience feedback that's circulated to many BBC staff, including members of the BBC Executive Board, channel controllers and other senior managers.

Thanks again for taking the time to contact us.

Kind Regards

BBC Audience Services


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 12:29 PM

Same old garbage Ian.

I rang BBC Audience Services to complain. The woman was very good listener, but when I cam to the point wher I asked her to log my complaint etc, she said that the computer had just gone down and I would need to ring back later and do it again.

How incredibly convenient!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 01:14 PM

To sid, Dave Eyre, and eveyone else who does not possess a television (why should you indeed)
The very fact that you own a computer connected to the Internet...(and you must have one, otherwise, you wouldn't be sending messages here!)
Means that you have the capability of watching the tele on your computer.
So, you have to pay the license fee.
Yes, I know you don't, but...thems the rools!
The only way out of this, is to completely cut youself off from the world, (electronically).
Wasn't my idea. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 01:17 PM

Are you sure about that Ralphie?

I thought watching TV over the internet did not need a licence, but if you can come up with the piece of evidence, I would appreciate that.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Folkiedave
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 04:41 PM

The offence one commits is watching a broadcast "simultaneously" as it is broadcast.

If I as a football fan watch "Match of the Day" live on a Saturday then I commit an offence. If on the other hand I watch the repeat on I-player then I don't.

Simple really and I apologise for the thread drift.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Folkiedave
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 04:45 PM

Tmorrow the inestimable Mr Ralph Jordan of this parish and 35 years at the BBC and the equally inestimable Mr Peat of the programme "Folkwaves" on BBC Radio Derby will be submitting themselves to the intense interrogation skills of me.

"Thank Goodness It's Folk" 10.00 am - 12 noon. 93.2 FM and www.sheffieldlive.org

Ralph and Mick will appear separately 'cos we only have one phone line into the studio. It is after all community radio.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 04:54 PM

Ya know, guys, if only you lot had come over to the BBC board when I had the 'live' Folkwaves threads going...

Do some of you remember the days when one thread reached over 500 posts and Mel closed it down, saying the BBC computer couldn't cope with such vast threads? (complete poppycock of course, as other threads reached similar numbers..)

And we even managed to get a 'listen again' button put on Folkwaves, due to the popularity shown on the F&A board....

Then, it all went bellyup and the usual gang, some of whom are now on here whingeing and whining their hearts out, set their sights on getting me banned from the BBC...

Well, they succeeded, and with that they also lost one of the main advocates for Folkwaves and for English Folk Music in general.

I've never understood this small world that continually aims to shoot itself in the foot, succeeding every single time...

WHY didn't you ALL join in those threads????

WHERE were you when I called for support, for Folkwaves and Genevieve Tudor's show as well....and Radio Britfolk, as was?????


Maybe, just maybe, if you'd all acted differently Folkwaves would now be protected, because it would have been recognised as having so many devout followers, lighting up the BBC F&A board.....but nope, you all chose to mess things up...

And now....you moan??????


Well, I'm really sorry that Folkwaves is going, REALLY sorry, but you guys have to understand that folk music can no longer be reserved only for those within The Inner Sanctum, jumping on those from outside who dare to raise their voices in sheer joy at the music!

This music MUST be allowed out to as big an audience as you can get, or else, just like Folkwaves, it will die....

It's why I used to shout SO bloody loudly...but sadly, I got drowned out by bitterness and jealousy...

And now, the best folk programme on the BBC is about to be axed....

What a sorry state for English folk music to have reached...


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Surreysinger
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 05:24 PM

Dave - well done. I shall listen to that with interest. It will be good to hear what Mick in particular has to say from the hot seat. In the meantime, I'm going to set about drafting a reply to the BBC Complaints personnel's standard response (as above) to my complaint of several days ago, and a reasoned missive to the head powers that be.

Incidentally, I was a bit perturbed to see in yesterday's paper that considerations are being given to ceasing to broadcast on BBC tv channels 3 and 4 ... which of course would mean the removal of the vast majority of any good folk music programming that we've been receiving lately. (Mind you, as this was in one of the tabloids I reserve total trust in the reported fact until something a bit more authoratative appears.)


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 05:32 PM

I was wondering when Lizzie would re-surface!
And as much as I applaud her for her enthusiasm with regards to all things musical. There are times when a more soft approach might achieve more than mindless ranting.
I feel honoured that Dave has asked me to shove my 2 Ha'pporth on his programme in the morning.
I hope I will give an informed and considered opinion re the BBC decision about, not only Folkwaves, but all minority musics on Local Radio throughout the country. All soon to be axed.
So, with respect Lizzie. Ranting will definitely not help.
I'm not for one minute saying thet I can change the situation either.
But, at least I will put my point with calm and considered thought.
I just wish I could talk to a BBC representative..Sadly, there is no-one available. Quelle Surprise!


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Subject: Save Folkwaves on BBC Radio East Midlands Protest
From: MikkinNotts
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 07:57 PM

Please come along on to the BBC Radio Derby offices on Monday evening 20th December 2010 at 19:00 hrs and join the 'Save Folkwaves' facebook campaign members who will be gathering outside the studios to listen to the penuiltimate Folkwaves radio programme broadcast between 1900 hrs - 2100 hrs.
Bring a radio, bring an instrument, bring your voice!....more on Facebook

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=169352206434131


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 03:25 AM

Good luck Ralphie.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,OLDNICKILBY
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 05:03 AM

"Licence fee payers" I thought that radio needed no licence


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 05:07 AM

Please come along on to the BBC Radio Derby offices on Monday evening 20th December 2010 at 19:00 hrs and join the 'Save Folkwaves' facebook campaign

Why?

You are totally stupid and nieve if you think it will make any kind of difference.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,S.G.
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 06:47 AM

I doubt that we are stupid and naieve: there may be no chance of changing any minds at the BBC at present, but it plays right into their hands if we go quietly. It weould seem to me to be an act of cowardice to prove the BBC's point for them. I repeat what I said earlier; doing nothing is not an option.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 01:23 PM

It may not make a difference but it will build community! And the presenters will appreciate it I am sure. Bring along a few drinks and have one or several in my name for them!

Conrad


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 08:28 AM

I am going down Monday evening. Happy to do so.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 08:29 AM

And I believe that is a 200 which I claim!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Sorry - last guest was me!
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 08:29 AM


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 09:27 AM

It maybe me but I had the distict feeling from Mick & Lesters atitued that they may not want to continue with folkwaves. such a difference from James Mcefree on radio Leicester Wdnesday night of complete devastation of the demise of his show, Mick and Lester seemed very upbeat that it was fiishing. Just my observation !!!!!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Dave Higham
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 10:12 AM

I haven't had the time this week to "listen again" to Folkwaves until today. What a blow. Until I got broadband 4 or 5 years ago I'd been totally out of touch with the UK folk scene since I moved to France in 1987. Folkwaves put me back in touch and I've listened almost every week since. Now it's being taken from me. Sickening. Yes, there are a few other local radio folk shows, but they are only very pale imitations (and one or two are dire). First Archie Fisher... now this.

It's true that Mick and Lester did sound very upbeat on Monday night, but I think they probably decided that that was the only way to go out, (it was their last live show) and not to let the bastards grind them down.

If you happen to read this, Mick and Lester, I'd just like to thank you for the pleasure your show has given me in the few years I've been able to listen.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 11:27 AM

Mick and Lester do read Mudcat. Thye've given me a lot of pleasure over the past few years and I shall miss them very much.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 09:10 AM

Hopefully this Friday's edition of Nottingham Post's specialist music columns dealing with Folk and Jazz will present a united front regarding the "Folkwaves" and "Jazz Incorporated" situation.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 01:12 AM

Reminder of the demo at Radio Derby, tonight 1900 ish (wrap up warm!)
The Facebook thread is now over 1300 people strong. Well worth looking at, lots of interesting viewpoints (not just rants either) and 2 interviews that Dave Eyre (Folkiedave here) did with me and Mick Peat last week on his Radio show.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 05:53 AM

I shall be there tonight.
Is it a live broadcast? I recall that one of the last two would be pre-recorded.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Gillie
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 06:03 AM

Cetainly tonight's has been recorded. Announced on the show, don't know about next weeks. Regards Gillie


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,S.G.
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 06:44 AM

Anybody checked the local East Midlands' stations schedules for the week beginning 3rd. January? It seems that between 7 o'clock and 9 each evening there will be "great early evening entertainment" presented by Richard Spurr followed by Amanda Bowman with much of the same between 9 and 1.(Except on Fridays when Dean Jackson takes over that slot). These are all BBC Radio Nottingham presenters with the usual, bland "Radio Two" style - and guess what? we are all invited to join in the conversations by phoning in on 0370 143 1333. So lets all do that eh?
Interesting to see that the centre for all of this wonderful new programming is Radio Nottingham - where was it that Stuart Thomas is based? So there we are; lots more of the same and an end to any specialist musio output; so much for clause 5.3!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 06:45 AM

My understanding is that tonight has already been recorded and the last one on the 27th is live.

However, the press are there tonight!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 07:04 AM

Try phoning them like I did, but they won't put you on, if they know you want to talk about Folkwaves. So you will need to be smarter than I was to get on. However if we bombarded the number, all their boring phone in people won't be able to get on.
Let's do a mass phoning whilst the first rogram is on.
What you must also realise is that Amanda Bouman has been bull ******** about standing in for Rob Underwood, when she knew full well that Rob had been taken off/axed from his program.
Radio Lincolnshire is now merged or working with Radio Humberside as I understand it. So I will be interested to know what Charlie Partridge is going to put in place of Folkwaves. Whatever it is, I will not be listening.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,S.G.
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 07:20 AM

It seems that the 7 till 10 slot on Radio Lincolnshire will be hosted by William Wright (though Radio Nottingham's Paul Robey sits in for the first programme on 3rd January) instead of Nottingham's Richard Spurr. They still get Amanda Bowman from 10, however. I feel sorry for Charlie Partridge if he's been backed into a corner over all of this because he really is a nice bloke. What a shame to be handed all of this retrograde "planning" - we might as well all listen to Radio Two - or is that the idea in the long run when the BBC start shutting local radio stations altogether. I have a feeling that in a few years time there will be around 10 regional stations with very limited (if any) local output. How's that for the licence payers! (being treated with the usual contempt of course) It's certainly a smack in the gob for all those of us who carried the torch of Community radio run by the BBC all those years ago.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,S.G.
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 07:31 AM

OOps - should have checked the Lincolnshire schedules more carefully as they do seem a little more varied than the other East Midlands stations, with a "BBC Introducing" programme on Fridays with Tom Morris presenting "some of the best music in Lincolnshire", so theres just a (vain) hope for some local output in that area with hopefully local musicians making a contribution. Hardly any consolation for the rest of us with the disappearance of "Folkwaves", but a glimmer of hope in Lincolnshire. I told you Charlie Partridge was a good bloke!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 07:34 AM

I know Charlie is a nice bloke.

William Wright is a nice bloke as well.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Acorn4
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 08:05 AM

Hermitage Radio operates from NW Leicestershire and operates a 2 hour folk slot on Thursday nights.

http://www.hermitagefm.com/#/schedule/4544220344


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Acorn4
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 08:07 AM

... I realise this has already been mentioned but just a reminder.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: SylviaN
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 08:26 AM

See you all later this evening (06.56 for 19.00).

By the way "Guest", you are wrong on all counts.

Remember, if the good do nothing (and I'm talking peaceful protest here, don't want to get misunderstood), then we get walked all over.

Also, Mick and Lester do want to continue with the programme - I know this for a fact, as I know them both personally! They cannot head this campaign and they are absolutely thrilled about the support they are getting.

Sylvia


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: SylviaN
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 08:29 AM

By the way, "Guest", you are right to a certain extent about us being "nieve" - it is the Spanish for snow, which we will probably be getting, but not until Wednesday evening.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,AndyC
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 08:35 AM

The comment from BBC Audience Services that the change in programming will allow coverage of breaking news and events such as snow is complete rubbish - most evenings the 9pm bulletin is identical to the 7pm one - there hasn't been any breaking news, and any station can opt out of folkwaves if there is a major local crisis (radio derby did this a few years ago to cover flooding) just as they opt out to cover local football. I hope that whoever got that response from the BBC will reply back to them and tell them that they are basically lying to try to justify their decision.

A more formal complaint could be made to senior BBC management on the basis that it is only English stations that are gradually losing their specialist music programmes - as far as I know there is no threat to folk music etc on Radios Scotland, Wales or Ulster.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: mikesamwild
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 08:54 AM

Dave H in France Merry Christmas!

Dave Eyres programme can still be downloaded.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 01:41 AM

My radio show is archived - not sure how far it goes ba


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 01:45 AM

Let me try that again. My show is archived though I am not sure how far it goes back. Sometimes there are technical issues so it isn't perfect.

Last night there was a magnificent protest. How many local radio shows would muster almost 60 people on a freezing cold night to protest about its axing?

The difference between my show and Lester and Mick is that they started off with "Personent Hodie" and I started off with "I Want a Hippotamus for Christmas".


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Granthampie
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 08:00 AM

A little slow off the mark here but I've only just heard about the axing of the show, which is just disgusting.

I've no idea if the BBC are likely to change their mind on this but like everyone else on here, I've emailed them and told them that they've lost "another" listener... I don't suppose they will lose any sleep over it.

I'll be listening to www.folkradio.co.uk from now on.

Have a wonderful Christmas all.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Granthampie
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 11:06 AM

Response from Simon Cornes BBC Radio Derby
----------
Thanks for getting in touch about the planned changes to our evening schedule.

Over recent months we have carried out a full review of our schedule after 7pm and, driven primarily by a change in listeners' lifestyles, we have decided to make a number of major changes.

The end of the "9 to 5" culture and the rise in people using the internet in the evening has led to a decrease in people sitting down to watch television together and an increase in the audience available to listen to the radio. With almost all commercial radio in the East Midlands no longer local or even regional in the evening, we feel it is part of our public service remit to now broadcast more accessible local radio into the evening rather than super-serving fans of a particular genre of music.

Clearly the loyal fans of the current output will be extremely disappointed by the ending of some very long running programmes; however, we have taken these decisions in a bid to serve a wider number of East Midlands licence fee payers at a time of day when there is now a genuine lack of "local radio".

The new schedule will allow us to react to breaking news in the region in a way that is currently impossible, it will allow us to broadcast through until 1am and it will allow us to introduce fully local news, rather than regional news, late into the evening later in 2011.

If you wish to make further representations about the planned changes, then Stuart Thomas is the Head of Regional and Local Programmes for BBC East Midlands. He can be contacted at BBC, London Road , Nottingham , NG2 4UU .

Simon Cornes
Editor
BBC Radio Derby

-------------

to which I replied...

------------

well you can never have enough news and sport can you?

I assume that in not "super-serving fans of a particular genre of music", that you will be taking "Dhamaka", "The Beat", "The African and Caribbean Show", "A Touch of Soul", "Aaj Kal" off the air too?

or is it just British Culture you've got a problem with?


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,sheffstu
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 03:18 PM

The real reason that Folkwaves is ending is Mick and Pete's often repeated promise of a weekly playlist. This is obviously too much of a technical challenge for Radio Derby so they have binned the entire programme.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,sheffstu
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 04:33 PM

Where did Pete come from? Of course I mean Lester. I am glad I've got the last few years of the programme on minidisc. I will now have the chance to listen to them. Folkwaves was a fantastic and will be sorely missed.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,S.G.
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 04:54 AM

How are Messrs. Thomas, Cornes, Bettison etc. going to justify their decision to axe the 7 - 9 "specialist" music slot on East Midlands radio in the future? It is my understanding that the RAJAR figures for this time of the evening are, for all practical purposes, immeasurable. How will they know that they have achieved their objective? Do they have such confidence in their new strategy that they expect the figures to rise so dramatically that they will have the necessary evidence to wave in our faces? I don't think so.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,AndyC
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 07:49 AM

In response to Granthampie, you can't just say that this is the BBC being anti-British because they are dropping country, jazz and irish programmes as well. One of the programmes being retained - The Beat - is mostly indie, rock and dance music so is just as 'British' as Folkwaves, and the black and asian programmes have a news and community information element rather than just being specialist music.

Wgere I think there is a problem, as I've posted before, is that the BBC have boxes to tick to make sure they cover traditional music and culture in the celtic nations - there is no threat to the folk shows on Radios Scotland, Wales and Ulster - but not in England. There is no 'Radio England' so it is down to local radio to cover traditional English culture, but they don't seem to see it as part of their remit (so for example Radio Scotland keeps its weekly bagpipe programme but Radio Manchester can happily drop its weekly brass band programme). The only way to challenge this would be through the BBC Trust or the senoir managers.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 07:52 AM

As a matter of interest what is the definition of "Specialist" music?

Almost all music is definable as specialist in some aspect or another.
"Boy band" specialist.
"Girl band" specialist.
"Ballad" specialist.
"Punk" specialist.
"Rock" specialist.
"Religious" specialist.

The list is endless, and they are all banned according to their statement.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 09:28 AM

Specialist music is the term that those people who are too polite to call it "minority music" use:-)


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 10:30 AM

Mike Harding's Folk Blog is going to Davey Jones' locker too.

'Well, 2010 is drawing to a close and, I'm sorry to say, so is this blog. We hope to replace it with some more folky content in the future, but in the meantime I want to say "thank you" thanks to all of you for reading, and thanks to the great many guest bloggers who dropped by to give us an insight into their musical worlds.'

Mike Harding Folk Blog

I see that Mike is going out on tour in the Spring, for the first time in years. Possibly he knows something about the future of Folk On 2?


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Subject: Folkwaves Farewell (for Now) Celebration
From: MikkinNotts
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 06:13 PM

Come along to the BBC Radio Derby studios on Monday 27th December and join fellow Folkwave fans in celebrating 25 years of the Folkwaves programme.
It will be a celebration in every sense of the word.......with music, dancing, ale and daft hats.
Bring your instruments, voices......oh, and you are encouraged (obliged really) to wear a daft hat, yes, even dafter than the ones you were wearing last Monday evening!
Let's give Mick and ...Lester the best show of appreciation we can manage.

More on Facebook.....

Facebook Event


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 02:31 PM

Folkwaves

Get it back on BBC


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Guest - Pragmatist
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 09:20 PM

Mick & Lester's programme was probably the best folk programme in England. (I SAY WAS BECAUSE IT IS NOT GOING TO RETURN NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE COMPLAIN - I'D LOVE TO BE PROVED WRONG!)

I know from personal experience just how much dedication Mick & Lester put into ensuring that the programme went out live when it would have been a lot easier for them to put out a pre-recorded broadcast.

I firmly believe the music will, however, despite the media and the chancers return as strong, if not stronger, than it has been.

THIS MUSIC CAN STAND ON ITS OWN. IT DOES NOT NEED THE MEDIA, GRANTS, UPDATING OR ANY OF THE OTHER MODERNISMS WITHOUT WHICH NONE OF US CAN SUPPOSEDLY SURVIVE!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 03:42 AM

The Nottingham Post's piece was actually published last night:-

End of era as plug pulled on jazz, folk and country

PRESENTERS ditched by BBC radio in the East Midlands in a shake-up of evening programming are "furious" about the changes.
From January 1, the specialist music shows, which are simultaneously broadcast across BBC Radio Nottingham, Derby, Leicester and Lincoln, will be scrapped.
They include Jazz Incorporated, Folkwaves, Celtic Fringe and Country. Each was a weekly two-hour show, broadcast from 7pm to 9pm.
"I'm angry about it for a number of reasons," said Mick Smith, who has presented a country music show in the East Midlands for 34 years.
"We weren't consulted and allowed to put our case forward. And it's not to save money. I get about £70 for every two hour show."
He added: "They're retiring me and of course I'm sad to go but I'm angry about the way they handled it."
Jazz Incorporated presenter Chris Moore said: "It's the end of an era on our local radio.
"Past management, perhaps recognising the licence payer should have a choice, supported a jazz programme on Radio Nottingham in various forms for 38 years."
He said the programme's support for local jazz musicians and gigs would be missed.
"Despite me putting up a spirited defence, management had made their minds up that the licence payers in the East Midlands would be better served by extending the Radio Nottingham daytime programmes into the evening schedules."
Current afternoon presenter Richard Spurr will host a new show each weekday evening from 7pm to 10pm.
BBC spokesman Bryn George said: "After a wide ranging review of evening programmes in the East Midlands, we are extending the hours of broadcast to 1am and providing a new early-evening programme designed to appeal to a wider number of licence fee payers."
No-one from BBC Radio Nottingham management was prepared to be interviewed.
Jazz Incorporated and Mick Smith Country are broadcast from Nottingham, Celtic Fringe from Leicester and Folkwaves from Derby.
Mick Peat, who has been presenting Folkwaves for 22 years, said he and co-presenter Lester Simpson were notified two weeks ago.
"To take two hours of folk music off the air is a crime.
"I wonder if the people who make these decisions actually listen to anything other than pop music.
"All they are going to give us is bland radio after seven o'clock. I wouldn't mind if that included folk music but it won't.
"Folk music will die on local radio because no-one will play it, even though it's not a minority music any longer."
Local talent would no longer have an on-air presence, he said: "We promoted local talent and for many people it was a way of finding out where and when gigs were happening."
Post folk writer Dave Sutherland said: "Folkwaves has been good for the area especially in the promoting of many of our young performers.
"Mick and Lester will be sorely missed."
More than 1,400 have joined a Facebook group called Save Folkwaves.
Post jazz writer Alan Joyce added: "Local radio programmes dedicated to specialist musical genres, compiled by enthusiastic and knowledgeable presenters, will disappear forever."


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 12:52 PM

Hooray and up she rises


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Sugwash
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 07:08 PM

Peace on Earth and good will to all men - although personally I'd like to exclude the BBC local radio managers in the East Midlands.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,S.G.
Date: 26 Dec 10 - 04:06 PM

To Mick and Lester - buckets of thanks for all you have done for folk music over the last twenty-two years and more: you and "Folkwaves" are irreplaceable and I and I suspect many others, will not care whether or not the BBC "suits" can sleep at night or not. We are all the poorer for their criminal decision but it is clear that we can no longer rely on the BBC to help preserve our national music; certainly not on a local, grassroots level. So much will be lost with the final programme - there's no point in saying that it will be excellent, because all of them were. To add a lighter note to the proceedings, it will be, as those great mates of Mick and Lester, Roaring Jelly, said of their own demise, "It's the end of an earache"! Thanks a million, fellas, you are still the best.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 26 Dec 10 - 04:45 PM

Sugwash: Peace on Earth and good will to all men - although personally I'd like to exclude the BBC local radio managers in the East Midlands

You can legitimately do that...the correct translation of the original verse in the bible is "and on earth be peace to men of good will", NOT a blanket wish of peace to ALL men. So if you don't reckon the BBC local radio Managers are "men of good will" then don't wish 'em peace :-)

(posted by an atheist!)


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: RamblinStu
Date: 27 Dec 10 - 11:49 AM

I will be listening to Folkwaves tonight via tinternet.

Can't make it to Derby tonight but I'll be there in spirit.

I will also send some more emails of support, to them and the suits during the programme, be good if others do likewise. As a further reminder of the popularity of Folkwaves

Thanks Mick and Lester for the years of fun.

Stuart Pendrill


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 27 Dec 10 - 12:21 PM

Sorry I can't be there, but hope all goes well with the protest.

I will also be listening on the Internet.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Dec 10 - 12:34 PM

My email to Simon Cornes at the BBC:


>>>>>Dear Simon,

My name is Lizzie Cornish and a few years back I started a 'live' messageboard thread for Folkwaves, on the BBC Radio 2 Folk & Acoustic Board.

Each Monday evening many of us would 'tune in' to the F&A board to listen live, around the world...folks from Canada and Florida joined in with me, as well as folks from all over the UK.

I'd recently become an English Folk Music convert, nay, GROUPIE, (lol), after finding this amazing music via a great band called Show of Hands, who of course now so often headline at every major folk festival in the UK, during the summer months.

Through them I dared to dip my toe into the waters of English Folk, because they removed the 'trainspotter' image of it, making it funky and fun...

Through them I also started to discover the heritage of The West Country..

I started to dip my toe in further, and the deeper I dipped the more amazed I became at some of the most beautiful music I'd ever heard. It was music that told of our traditions, as a Nation and a People..a living, moving, breathing History which brought the Past right out into the Present..

Well, I found John Tams, who of course, has won countless Radio 2 Folk Awards, as have Show of Hands..and through John I also discovered Barry Coope and....from there, the fabulous Coope Boyes & Simpson, with of course, Lester Simpson, who hosts Folkwaves, along with Mick Peat...

So, I gave their show a listen..and BOY!! did I LEARN oooodles of interesting information, alongside hearing some spectacular music, learning more about the traditions of my country, the history, the people..

I realised that I was listening to a radio programme that was incredibly special...and so I started the 'live' link-up on the Radio 2 Folk & Acoustic Board....

Within weeks the Folkwaves Thread had become the biggest thread on that board...and we even got a 'Listen Again' button added to Folkwaves, which Mel, the Smooth Ops host of that board, told us about, with great delight, knowing how pleased everyone would be.

It was something that had never happened before...this 'live' universal listening around the globe to Mick and Lester's show...and 'Ay Up Me Duck' became a national treasure phrase...as we'd all sit there listening to the many folk meetings, dances, festivals etc, which were taking place around the Derbyshire area...

It was such great fun, an absolute joy!

And then..Smooth Ops closed down the Folkwaves thread, saying their computer could no longer take the vast amount of messages on it..which of course was not true. But Folkwaves was turning into a Phenomenon, outstripping Smooth Ops own Mike Harding Show by miles..

Lester and Mike became our heroes..informing and igniting folks around the world to come together in their love of beautiful music and a grand sense of humour..

Now, I hear that Radio Derby has, for some extraordinary reason, decided to end Folkwaves, forever..

Why?

The word on the street, from the BBC is that you have to move with the times, focus on a new audience, make things more popular....and yet you already HAVE one of, if not THE MOST POPULAR folk radio programme in the country!

Why would you choose to destroy that?

Folk music is so much on the up at the moment. It's been growing for years and years, but now it's breaking through the wall that has been placed around it for decades. Many of our best musicians, singers and artists are within this talented world...It is a whole Movement! Our folk festivals sell out around the country, year upon year..bringing in tens of thousands of people to towns all over the nation.

It's a vibrant, colourful, rainbow world of talent..and one which I love with all my heart!

Heck, I wrote 15,000 words alone on the very first Sidmouth Folk Week a few years back, after Sidmouth International Festival had closed down..doing a 'live' write in on the F&A board as well.

To throw away one of the best and most popular folk programmes in the country makes no sense to me, or to the many thousands of people who've come together to try to save Folkwaves.

It's far more than a Programme, Simon...Folkwaves is a Community!

I've watched, over the past two decade or more, my country become lost...separated from its traditions, its history, its roots..and it has made me so desperately sad and worried...

Yet, these past few years I've also watched many people within the Folk World working their butts off to preserve those very traditions, the songs, the dances, the stories of the English People.

Ireland, Scotland and Wales are so PROUD of who they are, of their roots, but we are seemingly not allowed to be...and instead of protecting what we have left, we seem to be hellbent on wiping it out completely.

Folkwaves is a show run by intelligent and inspirational men, talented singers and musicians who are passionate, absolutely passionate about their passion...and Coope Boyes and Simpson, along with John Tams, Show of Hands and all the very many, many others work *their* backsides off to spread the word, the songs, the heritage of us all, to as many folks as they can reach.

Derbyshiire had 'a place on the map' in the International Marketplace of Radio, purely *because* of Folkwaves...

There have been petitions, letters, phone calls, threads on many music boards and even a Facebook page with hundreds of people rushing to sign up, all in a huge effort to save this wonderful programme.

Therefore, I urge you, from the bottom of your hearts, up at Radio Derby to reconsider your decision and save this programme for future generations who at present know so little of their past.

Yes, I'm passionate about Folkwaves, you bet I am! And one of the reasons is that I've learned such a lot from it..and I'm absolutely bloody passionate about Educating UP rather than this terrible Dumbing DOWN that has been such a huge part of our nation for so very long...

PLEASE, those within Radio Derby, PLEASE, PLEASE look again at this terrible decision...BE strong and proud, oh so PROUD of having THE BEST folk programme on the Planet...

Protect it!
Treasure it!
and most of all...
LOVE IT...

Love it as much as the rest of us do, out here!

With love and gentle smiles to you all, and with all my fingers and toes crossed that just for once, the *right* decision will be made by men and women who really do have the inner strength to recognise something very, very special within their programming.

Lizzie :0) <<<<


And if Mick and Lester ever get to read this, then THANK YOU for such a wonderful programme. We all love you dearly and will miss you like mad, but I'm sure that everyone here would wish you both much love and happiness for the future..and I sure as hell hope that maybe Simon reads his emails and Thinks Again!

Lizzie xxx


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Pete Mann
Date: 27 Dec 10 - 03:18 PM

Very difficlult to follow the piece from Lizzie Cornish - she has got it all.

She is so right - the BBC is only interested in pumping out yet more low-quality music and chat. The trouble with folk music is that much of it has a message within the words - how many pop songs can claim that? The BBC seems to have assumed that all its audience are numptes with a low brain cell count.

The BBC say that they need to appeal to a wider audience - strange that, because if you visit areas of the BBC like BBC3, it is full of material aimed at minority audiences for instance alternative comedy. Much of it is garbage, yet we can't retain a programme of true quality, like 'Folkwaves'.

A sad day indeed.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Sugwash
Date: 27 Dec 10 - 05:22 PM

Hey Rob, an atheist who knows his Bible, hedging your bets a bit there. I guess you know what I meant though; whisky buggered up the usual academic rigour I strive to maintain.

To Mick and Lester, all the very best for the future, a future a good deal less bright without Folkwaves to listen to.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 27 Dec 10 - 05:43 PM

Mick and Lester finished their last programme buy playing The Voice Squads version of "The Parting Glass"
A very apposite choice.
RIP Folkwaves...


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Andrew Smith
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 01:36 AM

I listen to Folkwaves on the I Player whenever I can so am very sorry to learn of the demise of another specialist music programme. The BBC has made a big mistake. Heart-less I would say so I add my small voice to the large crowd of protesters.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: stevewise
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 10:03 AM

wow - what a great post from lizzie cornish. now that the last show has been broadcast, it must be time to start a 'bring back folkwaves' campaign? what would be the best forum for this? it's no good simply grumbling to each other. any bright ideas anyone?


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 10:40 AM

One idea might be to inundate the studio with campaigning emails every Monday evening expressing the lack of interest in the new programme, complaints about lack of folk music output etc. etc. - it costs nothing to do that.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: stevewise
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 11:29 AM

I just listened to the final show via the iplayer. Did anyone else get tearful when they played The Parting Glass?


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Bernard
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 11:43 AM

Hopefully the phoenix will rise from the ashes, possibly on a community radio channel... it worked for Sounds of Folk when Ali and I were booted out of BBC GMR for similar reasons - we're only a couple of weeks away from programme 200 on Oldham Community Radio 99.7fm.

Okay, I keep banging on about this, but as we've been through it and seen the other side of the argument I'm in a good position to see this objectively... we wouldn't want to go back to the Beeb, because community radio stations are friendlier!!

So come on, someone in community radio in the Derby area - sort out Folkwaves as a matter of urgency!

I did a quick search to see what community stations operate in the area, but all I got was hits for Radio Derby... so I've emailed OFCOM to ask the question.

When I hear something I'll let you know!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: stevewise
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 11:59 AM

this is good - but I think pressure should be brought on the BBC to support a wide range of music - after all, the Beeb is internationally renowned which is why the argument proposed in one of the messages from a BBC executive that Folkwaves is somehow not serving the local community if mad. When local folks bands and the local folk scene are advertised world-wide, how is that not serving the community. A community radio solution would be better than nothing - but I think we should press for a change of heart from the BBC.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Bernard
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 01:42 PM

It's a bit late for that - they've been doing it for years!! Folkwaves is just the latest casualty.

I wholeheartedly agree that something should be done about it, but 'there's none so deaf as those who will not hear' as my grannie used to say.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 05:49 AM

The BBC long ago gave up paying anything but lip service to Reithian values of 'inform, educate and entertain' for 'create the mass market then hang onto it for dear life'. The corporation is a busted flush as are the other mainstream terrestrials.
The sooner Folkwaves is on a dedicated community channel the better. The future is global narrowcast and the Beeb don't know what the hell to do about it. They'll blanket bomb the network with inoffensive pap from clueless nobody's until someone pulls the plug and puts them out of their misery.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 05:58 AM

I wrote a very positive essay about BBC Reithian values
to get an interview at trendy Coventry Poly Media Studies course
in 1981..

I have absolutely no recollection what happened on the day I hitched up the motorway
with suit and tie in rucksack...

but I did end up going somewhere else nicer.

Maybe folkwaves shoud go somewhere nicer as well..


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Bernard
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 06:44 AM

GUEST,erbert - my point exactly!!

I've had a very quick reply back from Ofcom, and they say:

Thank you for your email. A map showing the rough locations of the community radio stations can be found on Ofcom's website at: http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/broadcast/radio-ops/coverage/communitycommunity-map.pdf.

There is one station in Derby, Radio Ikhlas and a couple of others in Derbyshire itself, Erewash Sound and Amber Sound FM. The contact details for stations currently broadcasting can be found by clicking on an individual station's name in the list at: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/radiolicensing/Community/community-main.html
(end of quote)

I've left the URLs as the text for the clickies to make it easy for copy and paste, should anyone wish to.

Having checked out Radio Ikhlas, it's primarily aimed at the Asian community, so is probably not appropriate. Erewash Sound and Amber Sound FM, however, both seem suitable.

Whilst not ideal, a pre-recorded version of the programme on CD could be posted to a few community stations as an alternative to ISDN links, etc. This would expand the coverage, and give the stations flexibility of broadcast times.

At Oldham Community Radio we are working on an idea to start using an FTP site for uploading programmes not recorded at the studios. Handy for me for the occasional pre-recs that we do, as I usually prepare them at home.

My method for pre-recs (which I first used when we had a slot on Radio Britfolk) is to record Ali's voice links in my studio, then stitch the programme together with the CD tracks afterwards.

Whilst more time-consuming than recording the three segments of the programme in one go (we have 'ad breaks' at twenty-past and twenty-to the hour), it does mean that I can tweak the timings more readily. This is particularly important because we use P-Squared's 'Myriad' auto playback system which can massage the timings automatically...

As different stations will have differing schedules, it's important to understand what they need, and to build each programme to fit in with their pattern.

No, I'm not trying to teach granny to suck eggs, I'm passing on my experience to any novices out there who are thinking of having a go.

The BBC's loss is everyone else's gain!!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Chris Thomas
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 06:04 PM

I am so outraged as I've just found out about the plans to scrap the Folkwaves. I am putting in a formal written complaint especially as I am sick of a diet bland papy music on English radio.

If you love "Real Music" I urge you all to buy an a internet radio and listen to folk and all sorts of different music from around the world, the station SR Varlden (world) from Radio Sweden is my favorite, but I will be listening to RTE Radio 1, Radio Scotland, www.celticradio.net, www.folk.hu etc there are many more. Good music is getting rare on the BBC in England the BBC had better watch out Internet radio is comming!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 06:14 PM

And don't forget Frank Hennessy's Celtic Heartbeat.

Not just Welsh


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: RamblinStu
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 11:09 PM

A New Year, time to remind the BBC of our feelings..


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Acorn4
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 05:00 AM

It's time to find out what they are filling the 7.00 Monday slot with and clog up their system with emails and texts.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Bernard
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 06:07 AM

If they do what they did on BBC GMR/Radio Manchester, it's an excuse to play 'best of' clips from the daytime programmes (when they interview minor 'celebrities')... when I listen (in the car) I always seem to land on the same clip, day after day!!

If it's not 'Manchester Reloaded', then it's football, football, football, and maybe some rugby.

Even Classic FM is better!!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 06:16 AM

Acorn...

And studio phone calls....


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 06:25 AM

if anyone can do it with losing the will to live, could they post the play-list for Monday to see how much the BBC have covered the needs of licence payers that are not covered by Radio 1/2 etc.....


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 07:10 AM

Folkwaves becomes
19:00
–22:00 Richard Spurr
03/01/2011
Great early evening entertainment. Guests and your calls on 0370 143 1333 (national rate). .

The phone number might come in useful!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 07:42 AM

according to the Radio Times, Folkwaves (and the other "minority" music programmes) is being broadcast this week as usual......
has anyone written to the radio Times on the general issue of Folkwaves/removal of folk etc programmes from local radio?
Derek


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: stevewise
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 07:57 AM

Quote "Folkwaves becomes
19:00
–22:00 Richard Spurr
03/01/2011
Great early evening entertainment. Guests and your calls on 0370 143 1333 (national rate). .

The phone number might come in useful!!!!!!!!!!! "

I think that trying to protest via the replacement programme could be counter-productive - those who like listening to richard spurr will simply think we are cranks!

I emailed simon corne about why the BBC haven't troubled to explain the reasons for their decision more publicly - or thanked mick and lester for putting on such a good show. The response was clearly a stock one since it didn;t address either point but simply explained their decision - a key part of this is that they feel that 7-9 has become a part of the working day more than in the past and hence people want to listen to more of what gets put out during the day. However it doesn't explain why they didn;t move folkwaves to a later spot - or to the weekend. This seems to me the case we should pursue.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: danensis
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 08:12 AM

Presumably one can also call 01332 616161 as that is the number for "whatever is on now" on Radio Derby - I used to do that every time Folkwaves was replaced by kick ball. My feeling was that the longer I spent on the phone talking to the "man behind the glass" the less time there was for inane ramblings from some kickball follower to be broadcast live on air.

John


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 05:51 PM

I think the reason that it is still in the Radio Times is that it was a short notice decision they were trying to keep quiet about!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Bernard
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 06:32 PM

When we were removed from BBC GMR we were instructed not to tell anyone until our final broadcast... fortunately one of the presenters from one of the other axed programmes put an article in the national press a few weeks beforehand, leaving the way clear for us to join in with a thread on Mudcat.

Not that it made any difference...

It certainly was not a 'short notice decision' - we knew nearly six months beforehand.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Bernard
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 06:54 PM

That thread was augmented/followed by this one.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 03:52 AM

Just to add, I've just uploaded the speech links from the final show to the Facebook campaign (Link above).
The files were too big for all the music, sadly, but at least, people will still be able to hear the interviews etc, after BBC IPlayer consigns it to the dustbin of history later today.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 05:08 PM

well, I phoned up BBC Radio Derby during the new 7-9 programme this evening to register my annoyance that Folkwaves wasn't on, and the woman I spoke to suggested I wasn't the first person to do so, and that my comments would be forwarded to the management.
Derek


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 02:28 AM

Well done Derek....100% sure though, that your opinion went straight in the bin! I KNOW how these places work. There will be a synopsis on the Facebook group shortly, as soon as they get their "listen again" facility working...but, the new DJ presented a bland mix of Oldies, A pub quiz, interviews with non celebrities about haunted houses, a failed contestant from Dragons Den (whose only reason for being on was that he lives in Derby!) and a BBC political pundit talking about National issues....combine this with music from the likes of Erasure, Mama Cass, Boy George, Carpenters. I could go on, but I'm losing the will to live!
It felt like a well-crafted throwback to 1976 local radio. Local content? Not much...Agreed the News summary did mention a bad traffic crash on the A1. That was it for the "Ground breaking local news that we were promised!
Oh and the local footie results, mustn't forget them.
Poignantly, in the 3 news spots, they played a clip of Pete Postlethwaites moving rant re the closure of the mines, and the end of colliery bands in the Derbyshire Yorkshire area, from the film Brassed Off.. These people can't even spell the word Irony!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: stevewise
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 07:44 AM

Just had this from mick smith whose country show was also axed

he refers to a possible folk show - not sure if he means folkwaves or his own folk show
-------------------------------------------------------------------
You may or may not be aware, but the Country Show on BBC East Midlands has been taken off air along with the Celtic Fringe, Folkwaves and the Jazz Programme. A move I rigorously fought on your behalf but to no avail. Still as they say when one door closes ………..???

•        So for lovers of specialist music and in particularly Country I have decided to set up an Internet weekly posting on my own radio station. The first few programmes will be approximately 1 hour long eventually extending to 2 hours.
•        I'll be posting them every Tuesday in keeping with my previous show on the BBC and they will stay there for a week, so you can listen at any time.

You'll be able to get the show by typing into Google search www.micksmithradio.co.uk       then clicking on Show

•        The format of the shows will follow the tried and tested route that I've been using for a long time with lots of emphasis on the music and where appropriate, interviews with local and international country music stars.   
•        With this in mind I'll be looking for local club news and new artists with original songs to feature on the shows, along you're your dedications and requests.
•        So if you are a country fan, artist, or promoter, hopefully there will be something in the show for you.

And finally please let me know what you think of the shows and any ideas or suggestions to improve them. All suggestions will be acknowledged and considered.

A further thought, if things are successful I'm planning to extend the range of shows to include a Folk music and a Celtic music show each week – who knows - so watch this space.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 09:01 AM

Don't forget there is also Kidnapppers Ceilidh

Radio Kidnappers (NZ) 1431kHz AM.
Broadcast: 10/04/2011 0000-0100 NZST

Kidnappers Ceilidh STREAMING live Sundays at 0000 NZ time

Folk on Sunday STREAMING live Sundays at 1500 NZ time via

http://www.radiokidnappers.org.nz/internet_audio.php

Specialising in tradition-based instrumental music.

For more about our programme please seek our entry in Jeremy Butler's Internet Folk Radio List at:

http://www.allthingsacoustic.org/tifrl/

For more on Radio Kidnappers visit us at:

http://www.radiokidnappers.org.nz/prog_fos.php

Mitch and Robyn Park
(Folk on Sunday and Kidnappers Ceilidh, Radio Kidnappers 1431AM & 104.7FM)
1214 Louie Street
Hastings, NEW ZEALAND 4122.       +64-6-8785395


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 01:11 PM

Bearing in mind the fiasco with the Beeb (Manchester) junking all the master to Folkweave into a skip some years' ago, I hope that someone has taped off-air or has access to the masters of Folkwaves. And if so that these are in a suitable condition to be archived.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Bernard
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 01:34 PM

In answer to your question, there would have been no 'masters', as the programmes would have been digitally 'logged' for a week until overwritten by the next broadcast. That has been BBC policy for quite some time, as it satisfies OfCom's minimum requirement for legal purposes.

If a programme was pre-recorded, maybe there would be a MiniDisk or CD copy. If recorded using RadioMan QuickEdit, the recordings would have fallen off the end of the queue as drive space needed freeing up.

I kept archives of 'Sounds of Folk' whilst we were on GMR by recording to MiniDisk in the studio whilst our programme was on air (some early broadcasts were recorded off air by Mark Dowding), and I am keeping archives of the current Oldham Community Radio incarnation by taking a WAV file from the station log (P-Squared PowerLog for those in the know!).

All my archives are in CD audio format, and on hard disks as WAV files, chopped into convenient chunks!

So if there's a programme (or part of a programme) that anyone missed, or would like to hear again...


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 03:55 PM

"...there would have been no 'masters', as the programmes would have been digitally 'logged' for a week until overwritten by the next broadcast. That has been BBC policy for quite some time,..."

Shock, horror, so there's no copies kept for the archives!! And I guess the same goes for Mike Harding's folk programme, Folkscene, Travelling Folk, Folk Club, et al.

Incidently these can all be downloaded automatically as series of progs. using RadioDownloader.

Its good that you are at least trying to preserve the programme you're involved with.

But the point is shouldn't the BBC be archiving these programmes, bearing in mind that storage media is cheap.

I hate to think of this attitude of total disregard towards archiving for future generations permeating the entire BBC (and others) output of t.v. and radio.

What on earth is getting lost now-a-days? And its not just episodes of Dr.Who.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 04:52 PM

Just to bring a bit of sense to this discussion. I've no idea what hapened to the Manchester programmes....probably dumped. I do know that most of the Pebble Mill recordings were "skipped" I know this because of my search for recordings of Nic Jones for the Unearthed project a few years ago. During this process, I spoke at length to both Peter Pilbeam, and Geoffrey Hewitt. Both of them agrred that most of the tapes had been thrown away. Of course, some lucky listeners will have recorded some of the programmes "Off Air" In fact, I have some tapes saved from that era. But, BBC policy at the time was to recycle the tapes....That doesn't happen nowadays. Everything is archived (because It's easy in the digital world)
Sad to say that a lot of wonderful recordings in the 70's were lost....Bugger!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 12:47 AM

With regards to Folkweave and maybe Nic Jones a guy emailed me awhile ago:

Alan Senior

"Hiya,I have just read your post on uk.music.folk, I have all the original 1/2"Masters from folk weave,rescued from a skip outside BBC Manchester & spent a few months putting them on to CD's, some great stuff but the BBC Does still own the copyright so there's not much I can do with them !"

Subsequent attempts to contact Alan have proved fruitless; maybe some one here knows him ...


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 12:52 AM

Alan's emails address was: alan AT senior DOT force9 DOT co DOT uk


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,UK Folk Music
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 06:31 AM

Folkwaves Returns.

We are delighted to announce that Folkwaves will soon return.

UK Folk Music was approached by presenter Mick Peat in September of 2011 and asked if it would be possible to host Folkwaves on our website. To accommodate the show, we have had a complete re-design and moved to a new server where we have more features available which includes a huge database option.

The new look website was launched on November 17th 2011 - in time for our attendance at the Festival Organisers Conference in Eastwood, Nottinghamshire.

More Details For more details about the return of Folkwave, please check out our website here : FOLKWAVES at UK Folk Music http://www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk/folkwaves.php

To ensure we can continue with the programme we need as much support as we can get, the whole project will be huge and coverage will be national, not just for the East Midlands as was the original show from Radio Derby.

Please spread the word.

Alan UK Folk Music


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 07:02 AM

Brilliant! Will definitely be passing on the good news!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Sugwash
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 07:15 AM

Magic, I do hope it all goes well, I'll be there amongst the audience for sure.


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: Bernard
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 11:33 AM

Another happy ending!!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 05:07 AM

Sounds like great news:
( but I doubt I'll be allowed to listen if we are required to follow the guidelines on their webpage "We are undergoing further tests for Folkwaves pod casting - please bare with us. "!!!
I don't think my participation in group nudity would be welcome.)


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: foggers
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 03:44 PM

Hurrah! Will defo be listening!


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: GUEST,UK Folk Music
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 06:45 AM

We are sorry to announce that in spite of all the hard work put in by Mick and Lester and producer Alan Morley of UK Folk Music, the December edition will be the last ever on the internet.

The three of us have discussed the fate of the programme and decided that in order for it to continue we needed to be back on radio. We have made approaches to local radio stations and had no interest whatsoever.

Supporters of the programme when it was on BBC Radio Derby have not transferred to the internet show, and we realise that it's not as easy to find as just turning on the radio at 7pm on Monday nights.

The Folkwaves team would like to thank listeners who enjoyed the show and artists who have been featured during the programme's long history.

Listen to Folkwaves on Mixcloud : FOLKWAVES

Alan Morley
UK Folk Music website


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Subject: RE: The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 01:24 PM

So Very sorry to hear this! A sad day...


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