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BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize

Jack Campin 09 Dec 10 - 07:49 PM
Jack Campin 09 Dec 10 - 09:14 PM
Bill D 09 Dec 10 - 09:23 PM
The Fooles Troupe 09 Dec 10 - 09:24 PM
The Fooles Troupe 09 Dec 10 - 09:26 PM
GUEST,number 6 09 Dec 10 - 09:31 PM
Wesley S 09 Dec 10 - 09:39 PM
Bobert 09 Dec 10 - 09:42 PM
Janie 09 Dec 10 - 09:46 PM
SINSULL 09 Dec 10 - 09:54 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 09 Dec 10 - 10:09 PM
Janie 09 Dec 10 - 10:27 PM
bobad 09 Dec 10 - 10:57 PM
Janie 09 Dec 10 - 11:11 PM
The Fooles Troupe 10 Dec 10 - 05:20 AM
Jack Campin 10 Dec 10 - 06:12 AM
Richard Bridge 10 Dec 10 - 07:03 AM
kendall 10 Dec 10 - 01:45 PM
John MacKenzie 10 Dec 10 - 02:29 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 11 Dec 10 - 10:53 AM
Lox 11 Dec 10 - 02:11 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 11 Dec 10 - 03:17 PM
Lox 11 Dec 10 - 04:11 PM
Lox 11 Dec 10 - 04:20 PM
Janie 11 Dec 10 - 07:23 PM
Janie 11 Dec 10 - 07:57 PM
EBarnacle 11 Dec 10 - 08:38 PM
Janie 11 Dec 10 - 08:51 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 11 Dec 10 - 09:38 PM
The Fooles Troupe 11 Dec 10 - 11:37 PM
akenaton 12 Dec 10 - 03:57 AM
Richard Bridge 12 Dec 10 - 04:22 AM
The Fooles Troupe 12 Dec 10 - 04:30 AM
The Fooles Troupe 12 Dec 10 - 04:38 AM
Bobert 12 Dec 10 - 08:30 AM
alanabit 12 Dec 10 - 08:57 AM
Stringsinger 12 Dec 10 - 10:10 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 12 Dec 10 - 02:15 PM
Lox 12 Dec 10 - 03:45 PM
bobad 12 Dec 10 - 06:23 PM
The Fooles Troupe 12 Dec 10 - 06:56 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 12 Dec 10 - 07:40 PM
The Fooles Troupe 12 Dec 10 - 10:24 PM
Janie 13 Dec 10 - 01:34 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Dec 10 - 04:28 AM
The Fooles Troupe 13 Dec 10 - 06:15 AM
The Fooles Troupe 13 Dec 10 - 06:34 AM
The Fooles Troupe 13 Dec 10 - 08:27 AM
Green Man 13 Dec 10 - 11:49 AM
Stringsinger 13 Dec 10 - 12:06 PM
The Fooles Troupe 14 Dec 10 - 05:28 AM
Stu 14 Dec 10 - 11:05 AM
Stringsinger 14 Dec 10 - 11:08 AM
The Fooles Troupe 16 Dec 10 - 07:25 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Dec 10 - 01:23 PM
Jack the Sailor 16 Dec 10 - 01:36 PM
Bobert 16 Dec 10 - 01:44 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Dec 10 - 02:06 PM
akenaton 16 Dec 10 - 02:55 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Dec 10 - 04:56 PM
akenaton 16 Dec 10 - 05:14 PM
gnu 16 Dec 10 - 05:25 PM
Rog Peek 04 Jan 11 - 06:19 AM
Rog Peek 04 Jan 11 - 06:56 AM
andrew e 04 Jan 11 - 03:38 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 04 Jan 11 - 04:03 PM
Iains 22 May 17 - 05:08 AM
David Carter (UK) 22 May 17 - 05:43 AM
Teribus 22 May 17 - 06:17 AM
David Carter (UK) 22 May 17 - 06:24 AM
Iains 22 May 17 - 06:28 AM
Iains 22 May 17 - 06:54 AM
Teribus 22 May 17 - 07:30 AM
Iains 22 May 17 - 11:51 AM
Greg F. 22 May 17 - 04:49 PM
Donuel 22 May 17 - 07:21 PM
Donuel 22 May 17 - 07:31 PM
Jim Carroll 23 May 17 - 02:34 AM
Teribus 23 May 17 - 04:18 AM
Iains 23 May 17 - 04:44 AM
Teribus 23 May 17 - 04:57 AM
Teribus 23 May 17 - 05:12 AM
Iains 23 May 17 - 05:25 AM
Teribus 23 May 17 - 06:42 AM
Jim Carroll 23 May 17 - 06:55 AM
Iains 23 May 17 - 10:33 AM
Iains 23 May 17 - 10:42 AM
Donuel 23 May 17 - 02:13 PM
Greg F. 23 May 17 - 02:19 PM
Teribus 24 May 17 - 02:36 AM
Iains 24 May 17 - 04:45 AM
Teribus 24 May 17 - 11:17 AM
Iains 24 May 17 - 02:54 PM
Greg F. 24 May 17 - 05:59 PM
Iains 25 May 17 - 05:12 AM

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Subject: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:49 PM

Seems to me that the obvious candidate for a Nobel Peace Prize right now is Julian Assange.

Anybody got relevant contacts to get him nominated? This describes the process:

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/nomination/


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:14 PM

Or perhaps Assange together with Bradley Manning, as suggested here:

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2010/12/2010129102245193184.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:23 PM

mercy... I would hope you were joking, but I'm afraid you are not.

'More transparency' is a fine idea... what Assange chooses to do to achieve it is beyond sanity...

(I am reminded of the Chinese? parable of burning down huts to cook pigs..)


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:24 PM

Well, the Chinese have created their own Peace prize to honor the VP of Taiwan, so as to deflect attention for the real one.... so we can make up our own too!


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:26 PM

"Chinese? parable of burning down huts to cook pigs"

An English writer - we read it in primary school ... sounds like Swift to me...


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:31 PM

Maybe they should take back Obama's and give it Assange.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Wesley S
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:39 PM

Jack - From the link you provided:

The Nobel Committee sends out invitation letters to individuals qualified to nominate – members of national assemblies, governments, and international courts of law; university chancellors, professors of social science, history, philosophy, law and theology; leaders of peace research institutes and institutes of foreign affairs; previous Nobel Peace Prize Laureates; board members of organizations that have received the Nobel Peace Prize; present and past members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee; and former advisers of the Norwegian Nobel Institute.


Somehow, someway they managed to leave out any reference to the Mudcat. Go figure....


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:42 PM

Think if the ladies in Sweden who Assange is supposed to have raped ain't at all convincing -- I mean, zero credibility -- then, hey, wouldn't bother me at all... But then again I think the most patriotic people are whistle blowers...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:46 PM

Sure, let's forget the rape charges. They must be bogus, right?

And after-all, it is only a couple of women making claims. Everyone knows how manipulative women are, right? No need to investigate further, yes?


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:54 PM

Janie,
Unfortunately, these two women are being used to achieve a political agenda. Frankly, I doubt that anyone involved gives a flying fuck about them or their rape claims.
Welcome to the "real" world.
And I am as disgusted as you.
Mary


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:09 PM

Bobert:
"Think if the ladies in Sweden who Assange is supposed to have raped ain't at all "

Then it would be.....


GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:27 PM

I agree, Sins. But it is not "a" political agenda. It is at least two political agendas, plus whatever personal agendas are involved. There is absolutely insufficient information available at present to draw any conclusions whatsoever about the sexual assault allegations. I do find it interesting that Assange is fighting extradition to Sweden to be questioned about the charges. He would rather be in prison in England knowing that both Great Britain and the USA are chomping at the bit to find grounds to charge him regarding the leaks? I don't assume that means he is guilty of the sex charges, but I would think it would give any thinking person pause before they jumped to the conclusion there is no basis for those charges and they must be groundless and "merely"politically motivated.

On;y history will tell whether what Wikileaks is doing does more harm or more good, and to whom. I suspect the verdict will be mixed, and that there will also be real differences when the short-term results are weighed against long-term effects.

It is also the reality that these rape charges are separate, whether or not they are used for political purposes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: bobad
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:57 PM

Report: Assange accuser flees to Middle East, may not be cooperating with police

By Daniel Tencer
Thursday, December 9th, 2010 -- 7:03 pm

Sweden withholding documentation on Assange probe: lawyer

One of the two Swedish women who have filed sex complaints against the founder of WikiLeaks has reportedly left Sweden and may no longer be cooperating with the criminal investigation.

According to a report at Australian news site Crikey.com, Anna Ardin has moved to the Palestinian territories to volunteer with a Christian group working to reconcile Arabs and Israelis.

Crikey.com reports:

    "One source from Ardin's old university of Uppsala reported rumors that she had stopped co-operating with the prosecution service several weeks ago, and that this was part of the reason for the long delay in proceeding with charges-and what still appears to be an absence of charges."

Ardin's blog shows that she has recently posted from the Palestinian territories. Her most recent blog posts make no mention of WikiLeaks or its founder, Julian Assange.

Some of Ardin's most recent Tweets suggest sympathy for WikiLeaks.

"MasterCard, Visa and PayPal -- belt them now!" Ardin urged in a Tweet Wednesday, evidently referring to the cyber-attacks launched on those institutions after they severed their relationships with WikiLeaks.

In a more recent Tweet, she complained of the media reports digging into her background.

"CIA agent, rabid feminist / Muslim lover, a Christian fundamentalist, flat & fatally in love with a man, can you even be all [these things all] the time?" she Tweeted in Swedish.

Some news reports have linked Ardin to the CIA, based on her contact with anti-Castro groups in Cuba. Ardin wrote her master's thesis on these groups, while located in Havana and Miami. But others have questioned the validity of the connection.

Crikey.com notes that Ardin, an avowed feminist, has taken criticism from many prominent feminists, who, perhaps surprisingly, appear to have sided against the female accuser and with the male accused.

"Rape is being used in the Assange prosecution in the same way that women's freedom was used to invade Afghanistan. Wake up!" Tweeted Naomi Klein.

Feminist activist Naomi Wolf penned an article sarcastically congratulating Interpol for its "commitment to engaging in global manhunts to arrest and prosecute men who behave like narcissistic jerks to women they are dating."

SWEDEN WITHHOLDING DOCUMENTATION ON ASSANGE PROBE

Assange's lawyer, renowned British advocate Mark Stephens, told CBS News Thursday that prosecutor Marianne Ny is staging a "show trial," in reference to the politically motivated prosecutions of the Stalin-era Soviet Union.

Stephens said not only have formal charges not been filed against Assange, but the prosecution has failed to provide him with any documentation relating to the investigation. As a result, he says it's impossible for him to begin crafting a defense.

Stephens also said he believed recent news reports that Sweden is holding talks with the United States on whether Assange can be extradited to face charges under US law.

It's unclear what US laws Assange could have broken with his release of US State Department cables, as he is not a US citizen and therefore not bound by US treason laws, and his activites with WikiLeaks were carried out outside the US.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:11 PM

Thanks bobad. Tried to find some objective information regarding the reporter, Daniel Tencer, but a quick search didn't reveal much that would allow me to judge how well veted his writing might be.

Can you give me any help with that?

Not that veting is the be-all-and-end-all of on target factual reporting. Look at John Edwards and the National Enquirer! (and not implying anything about Mr. Tencer in saying that.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 05:20 AM

The Wikileaks sex files: How two one-night stands sparked a worldwide hunt for Julian Assange

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336291/Wikileaks-Julian-Assanges-2-night-stands-spark-worldwide-hunt.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 06:12 AM

Bogus sexual offence charges that don't stick are a common tactic for states to use in countering opposition. Malaysia has been doing it regularly for 40 years.

Some of the categories of nominators the Nobel site lists include people I know personally, and there must be many more known to Mudcat members. But the process is rather secretive, and doubtless only a few people in each of those categories get to play.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 07:03 AM

Of course we don't know the actual facts about Assagne's sexual interactions, but from what we can see it does look rather as if there was consensual sex and then later it was recategorised as if it had been non-consensual which does seem rather internally (no pun intended) contradictory.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: kendall
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 01:45 PM

A tired old joke that is loved by Neanderthals:
She didn't know she had been raped until his check bounced.
Or, if you give a prostitute a bad check is it rape or shoplifting?


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 02:29 PM

I did not have sexual intercourse with those women


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 10:53 AM

""I don't assume that means he is guilty of the sex charges, but I would think it would give any thinking person pause before they jumped to the conclusion there is no basis for those charges and they must be groundless and "merely"politically motivated.""

Conversely Janie, it might suggest that Britain and the USA might be much more pleased to have him locked away for fifteen years in Sweden, than to have any open trial either in the UK or the USA.

Who knows what might crawl out of that can of worms?

A nice little stitch up, then forgotten until after all the other protagonists are retired or dead.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Lox
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 02:11 PM

"Sure, let's forget the rape charges. They must be bogus, right?

And after-all, it is only a couple of women making claims. Everyone knows how manipulative women are, right? No need to investigate further, yes?"

Janie,

1. It was investigated ... and dropped ... months ago.

2. He is not accused of rape as we know it, but of rape according to a swedish techniicality.

The women do not deny consenting to sex with him.

Assange has committed no violence against anyone.

As I understand it, What is being disputed is whether a condom, which allegedly split during sex with one of the women, did so by accident or by his design.

The current round of charges are the result of the two women being approached and encouraged to go ahead with pressing charges.

He may go to jail because his condom broke.

The woman in question didn't care until she was encouraged to press charges.

It all happened around the same time as the leaks.

His arrest is political through and through.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 03:17 PM

Applying reductio..., all private correspondance is meat for exposure by thieves like Assange.
The man needs to be prosecuted and confined to prison for a long term.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Lox
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 04:11 PM

Wikileaks is a news outlet.

This is press freeedom for the WWW age.


Check out this contradiction.


                        U.S. upholds its commitment to press freedom.



Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...



Erstwhile US Presidential candidate, the evangelical Mike Huckabee, has called for the death penalty for Bradley Manning, the US Private who fed the material to Wikileaks. He also wants Assange charged under US terrorism legislation which also carries the death penalty



In other words - The Press should be free, but we should be free to kill them if we don't like what they print!



An honest government has nothing to worry about from a good journalist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Lox
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 04:20 PM

.





                   Rape accuser linked to CIA






.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 07:23 PM

Good point, Don. One of the things I value about the 'Cat is that people often offer thoughtful different perspectives.

Thanks for the additional links Lox.

That may be, Q. I'm often slow to make up my mind. But let him be locked up on the correct charges. I'm not quite ready to assume there is nothing to the rape charges, but he shouldn't be tried on rape charges in order to punish him for leaking the classified documents.

And yes....I know that is not the real world.

What is apparent to me is that societies are going to have to come to terms with all the implications of the modern internet. Assange may or may not deserve to be locked up for the leaks. However, locking him up will not stop such leaks.

Wikileaks did, in effect, vet and redact some information available to them before general release, giving the US government a heads-up and also giving the information in advance to several responsible news organizations. Given that such leaks will continue, even if Wikileaks in general, and Assange in particular were "shut down," so to speak, it would be much more balanced to also release secret diplomatic cables and correspondence from other governments, including, but certainly not limited to China, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Russia, etc. That is less likely to happen simply because we do have a more open and transparent government than many of these countries, and therefore less control. Leaks such as have occurred could result in Western democracies becoming less democratic and more secretive - more controlling and repressive in the absence of similar release of classified information from some other countries such as I listed above. I think one should consider that.

Under current USA law, any government employee who is discovered to have passed information is likely to find themselves in prison for a long time. In less free countries, that person would find themselves much more likely to be shot or "disappeared," along with their families.

Unbridled freedom = chaos.

Absolute order = absolute repression.

I don't know where the fulcrum is, but I do know there is real danger to our freedoms in more-or-less stable democracies if such breaches of classified information continues to be confined to only the USA or other democracies.

On the other hand, given the realities of globalization, overpopulation and diminishing resources, democracy may become politically and sociologically obsolete as a strategy for the survival of "tribes", or even the species.

I envy all of you on either side of this issue who have such passionate certainty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 07:57 PM

And please pardon all the grammatical errors, especially the shifting verb tenses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 08:38 PM

You gotta be kiddin'


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 08:51 PM

Eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 09:38 PM

Wikileaks is publishing stolen material. They are guilty of aiding the criminal who copied confidential information. For this they must be prosecuted in civil courts. The soldier who stole the material will be tried by court martial.

The Swedish rape or non-rape is between the Swedish courts and Assange; I have no interest in that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 11:37 PM

"Wikileaks is publishing stolen material. They are guilty of aiding the criminal who copied confidential information. For this they must be prosecuted in civil courts. The soldier who stole the material will be tried by court martial."

Did not the person who 'stole' the Pentagon Papers have the US Supreme Court back the right to have such information released to the Public Domain. Did he not serve any jail time? Was he not Pardoned? Did not any person who 'aided' him receive no penalty?


Those who refuse to learn from the lessons of History are condemned to make us all go thru them again, the stupid selfish bastards!


:-P


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 03:57 AM

Well said 'Stroupe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 04:22 AM

Q - please remember that US law does NOT apply throughout the world, and we will fight you till our last breath should you seek to make it so. The world is not yet colonised by the USA.

Having said that, you appear confused as to the relevant law, and who has jurisdiction over what, and indeed whether breach of confidence is a criminal matter (which it generally isn't) or a civil matter.

Assange is not bound by the US equivalent of the Official Secrets Act, and he cannot be guilty of treason against the USA because he is not a citizen of the USA nor has the necessary wider connection established on one of the last UK show trials, the treason conviction of "Lord Haw Haw".


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 04:30 AM

"Q - please remember that US law does NOT apply throughout the world, and we will fight you till our last breath should you seek to make it so. The world is not yet colonised by the USA.

Having said that, you appear confused as to the relevant law, and who has jurisdiction over what, and indeed whether breach of confidence is a criminal matter (which it generally isn't) or a civil matter.

Assange is not bound by the US equivalent of the Official Secrets Act, and he cannot be guilty of treason against the USA because he is not a citizen of the USA nor has the necessary wider connection established on one of the last UK show trials, the treason conviction of "Lord Haw Haw". "

Reposted by me - An Australian - Australia is NOT the 51st US state.... even thought we just paid about $4 million to have Oprah swan around here ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 04:38 AM

Indeed the behaviour of the USA in such places as bases on Japanese soil such as spiriting away US servicemen back to the USA to avoid rape charges has not gone down well ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 08:30 AM

The problem I have about the wiki-leaks is that there isn't really all much stuff in them...

What I'd rather see are documents related to the Bush/Cheney war machine takin' us into Iraq... Or the documents where Karl Rove outed Valerie Plame...

I mean, documents where one diplomat or another thought that Putin was knothead, or whatever, are like... yawn... I really haven't seen any documents or heard of any that reveal much of anything useful...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: alanabit
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 08:57 AM

Britain is more like a US colony than a state. We do what we are told, but we have no representation in the US government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 10:10 AM

The Nobel Peace prize has been compromised by the inclusion of Henry Kissinger and Barack Obama.

The alternative would be the Right Lively prize offered annually.

Malalai Joya should have been given a Nobel but the Nobel prize for peace is now a misnomer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 02:15 PM

I expect the U. S. to start extradition procedings against Assange.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Lox
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 03:45 PM

The US has no legal or moral claim to extradite Assange.

He has committed no crime.

Someone leaked info to him, and as a jourhalist he published it.

That ois wjhy they are trying to get their revenge by putting him away for ... er ... not raping someone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: bobad
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 06:23 PM

Mukasey: Prosecute Assange because it's 'easier' than prosecuting New York Times

By David Edwards and Daniel Tencer
Sunday, December 12th, 2010 -- 3:26 pm

It's come to the attention of some observers that there isn't much the US can charge Julian Assange with that it can't charge the New York Times with as well.

After all, the founder of WikiLeaks and the US's pre-eminent major daily both basically did the same thing: They published confidential State Department cables allegedly stolen by Pfc. Bradley Manning.

But for Michael Mukasey, President George W. Bush's last attorney general, the matter is clear cut: The US should prosecute Assange because it's "easier" than prosecuting a major news outlet.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/mukasey-prosecute-assange-easier-times/


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 06:56 PM

"Britain is more like a US colony than a state. We do what we are told, but we have no representation in the US government. "

History in reverse?


"documents where one diplomat or another thought that Putin was knothead, or whatever, are like... yawn... I really haven't seen any documents or heard of any that reveal much of anything useful..."

Basically what Kevin Rudd, our ex PM and current Foreign Minister said ... and he seemed to be the first politician to say that - some Aussie Journos said that before him...


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 07:40 PM

Right Alanabit.

Maybe we should dump the next consignment of Chrysler Crossfires in the harbour, and declare independence.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 10:24 PM

Yep Don, and hold Reserves in anything other than the US Dollar as well as pay for International Trades in anything but the US Dollar .... :-)


Boy, will THAT kick 'em in the nuts ... btw, you know what they did to Sadam when he tried that ....


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 01:34 AM

Interesting comments.

Openleaks.com


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 04:28 AM

Surely Mukasey has that badly wrong - Assange is not personally subject to US jurisdiction, and any acts he did or authorised occurred outside US jurisdiction. Unless Mukasey thinks that US statutes apply to all people throughout the world (a piece of arrogance that would not surprise me but is surely offensive to most of the world) it would be much easier to prosecute the NYT than Assange.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:15 AM

But Richard, so many Yanks DO!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:34 AM

How the Non-Politicans see Wikileaks


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 08:27 AM

Tweet By Bronwyn Bishop Aussie Federal MP:

"Mr Assange should be aggressively interrogated until he reveals the location of the stolen cables, so they can be retrieved."

Sigh ... and she has a Law Degree too ...

Trust me, they're not all Yanks! We got some when the Lord was dishing then out too!


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Green Man
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 11:49 AM

The latest is an appeal to Mr assange 'To do the right thing'. How far behind the times are these people. He ALREADY DID the right thing.

The people flying that helicopter should be charged with multiple murder and destruction fo two nioce cameras.

GM


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 12:06 PM

Assange is the natural extension of the actions of Daniel Ellberg who praises Assange as being a hero.

Both men are mine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:28 AM

Iceland Parliament Committee Calls Ban on Wikileaks "Harsh Operation on Freedom of Expre

The parliamentary general committee (allsherjanefnd) met today to discuss the ban that Visa and Mastercard have placed on card-holders who wish to donate to Wikileaks, and have raised the possibility of taking away their operating licences.

...

Róbert Marshall, the chairman of the committee, told mbl.is, "People wanted to know on what legal grounds the ban was taken, but no one could answer it. They said this decision was taken by foreign sources." Valitor and Borgun have emphasized that the matter is not in their hands.

The committee has asked for more information from these companies, however, to prove that there are legal grounds for banning cardholders from donating money to an organisation such as Wikileaks. Amnesty International said that they were very concerned at the precedent the ban sets with regards to human rights.

Róbert said that it was the opinion of the members of parliament on the committee that the operating licences of Visa and Mastercard in Iceland should be seriously reviewed.

As reported, Datacell - a company which had been serving as a proxy for payments to Wikileaks - is already planning to sue Visa. Kristinn said that he has no doubts Wikileaks will themselves sue Visa, and Mastercard as well.

-----
Mr Assange ... was also critical of the major finance companies who suspended payments to WikiLeaks.

"We now know that Visa, Mastercard, PayPal and others are instruments of US foreign policy. It's not something we knew before," he said.

"I am calling for the world to protect my work and my people from these illegal and immoral attacks."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/12/14/3093250.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Stu
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:05 AM

Assange has just been granted bail.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:08 AM

Good news about Assange. Democracy returns step by step.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 07:25 AM

Looks like somebody is worried the Mind Control Drugs are not working properly ...

State Department Warns Students Against Discussing WikiLeaks

Swedish fighting bail - Swiss Bank actions stops him accessing cash...

WikiLeaks: Swedish government 'hid' anti-terror operations with America from Parliament ... so now we know why they are so pissed off at him....

Time spokesman said large numbers of people expressing interest in Assange


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 01:23 PM

Wikipee "undermines the ability to have private, confidential communications that are vital to the functioning of a society" and "leads to anarchy," says Thomas L. Friedman of the New York Times.

Diplomats and businessmen, to insure privacy, are forced to go back to the briefcase strapped to the wrist or slow mail systems.

Governments must act to control privacy of internet mail and enact penalties to control the likes of Assange.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 01:36 PM

I think that Wikileaks as a concept has some merit. But the way Assange runs it is ham handed and stupid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 01:44 PM

The timing is great for Boss Hog... For the last 12 years there's been a push to protect whistle blowers... Legislation has begrudgingly made it thru dozens of hearings and rewrites and compromises and there was hope that it would finally make it out onto the House floor for a vote but is now being held up yet again by the Repubs because they say that 12 years isn't enough time and that we are rushing things???

So, fir the guy on the assembly line making fighter jets and the boss says to use the inferior rivets on the wings it's tough-luck-Charlie if he goes public with it...

Why is it that the Repubs complain so much about just what crappy federal workers and contractors are but when it comes down to protecting the folks who are willing to blow the whistle on the crap that is happening it's the Repubs who want to throw the book at the whistle blower???

Beam me up, Scotty... The Repub bullshit is about to drown out all logic...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 02:06 PM

Assange's crimes have nothing to do with 'whistle-blowing'. Thievery of confidential communications cannot be tolerated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 02:55 PM

Srely the "theif" was Mr Manning?
Mr Assange is simply a journalist doing his job.....not many of them around!

The fact that John Pilger supports Mr Assange is good enough for me, carry on sir and good luck!


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 04:56 PM

Assange is in the position of a fence dealing in stolen goods; certainly not a journalist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 05:14 PM

Surely the "fences" are the National newspapers in US and UK who print the cables to boost sales?

Mr Assange appears to have very little to gain financially and rather a lot to lose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: gnu
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 05:25 PM

He's still a fence who profits. Fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Rog Peek
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 06:19 AM

Song for Bradley Manning by David Rovics

Rog


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Rog Peek
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 06:56 AM

A link which includes David Frost interview with Mr. Assange.

Rog


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: andrew e
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 03:38 PM

It's very unlikely all is at it appears to be.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=17177

That's just one article. There's heaps of others.

Check out
http://whatreallyhappened.com/

Also the Nobel Peace prize being awarded to Obama last year totally destroyed any credibility it may have ever had.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 04:03 PM

Sour grapes because it wasn't awarded to andrew e?


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 17 - 05:08 AM

Now that Sweden has dropped charges against Assange should he be allowed free passage, and should the US publicly drop all attempts at extradition or extraordinary rendition? On June 19, 2012, he fled bail and applied for asylum in Ecuador, through the embassy in Knightsbridge.

A very interesting summary below:


http://www.blacklistednews.com/John_Pilger_speaks_out_on_Julian_Assange_and_Sweden/58567/0/38/38/Y/M.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 22 May 17 - 05:43 AM

The UK government should now allow him safe passage to Ecuador. However its unlikely that they will, craven cowards that they are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Teribus
Date: 22 May 17 - 06:17 AM

Tell me again David Carter(UK), refresh my memory, who was it who displayed cowardice in deciding to flee instead of standing and facing his accusers as an innocent man would.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 22 May 17 - 06:24 AM

As I remember he was perfectly willing to face his accusers as long as they would provide a guarantee not to extradite him to the USA.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 17 - 06:28 AM

Hardly cowardice to remove yourself from a stacked deck. Did not Clinton suggest a drone strike on the embassy to get him? This very clearly shows his fears were well founded.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 17 - 06:54 AM

Correction. The drone strike issue was raised Nov 23 2010, Assnage entered the ecuadorian embassy to request asylum 19June 2012, granted 16Aug 2012.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Teribus
Date: 22 May 17 - 07:30 AM

And why would the Swedes have extradited him? His offence was against two Swedish citizens and was perpetrated in Sweden. No-one can be extradited from Sweden to a country where serious offences such as treason or murder are punishable by death.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 17 - 11:51 AM

Teribus: If Assange had received assurances that neither Sweden or the UK would accede to American extradition none of the subsequent furore would have developed. Do you seriously think he would have claimed asylum on the basis of rape allegations, or more seriously would he have been granted asylum on the basis of a suspected crime of rape?
Were the situation as simple as you allege I feel certain his legal team would have acted and advised him accordingly. There are also UK charges of bail skipping against him in the UK to be addressed.
   The most frightening aspect of this case is that the former Secretary of State, Clinton, was quite happy to discuss carrying out a totally unprovoked act of war on an ally in order to remove an embarrassment- namely Assange.


How could such a person ever be considered suitable material to run for the Presidency?


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 May 17 - 04:49 PM

quite happy to discuss carrying out a totally unprovoked act of war on an ally in order to remove an embarrassment

Absolutely, Iains - Trump would NEVER do such a thing!


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Donuel
Date: 22 May 17 - 07:21 PM

Trump would issue a denial for his non-denial denial which is a bit like a peek at the truth without being able to prove he said anything at all.
example: I did not eat the cookies that are very good and even better with milk which I never have before 11PM.

Even if Assange is a good guy he gave the election to Trump just like Ralph Nader gave the election to Bush.

What was that? Manchester ARENA JUST BLEW UP! DEAD AND INJURED EVERYWHERE


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Donuel
Date: 22 May 17 - 07:31 PM

NO SMOKE, JUST A NOISE and stampede.no cause detected yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 17 - 02:34 AM

"Rape charges"
Interesting to look at the timeline of these charges
In April 2010, Wikileaks releases the 'Collateral Murder' film footage claiming US slaughter of over a dozen people, including two Reuters Journalists in Baghdad and begins to concentrate on Iraq and Afghanistan in a big way.
In the same month, it began publishing 779 secret files relating to prisoners detained in the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.
In August 2010, Assange is accused of rape in Sweden and in December he is arrested in Britain.
Coincidence!!!!!!
Maybe JOHN PILGER has a point
The western 'Democracies' have a way of dealing with information they don't think is fit for public consumption
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Teribus
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:18 AM

Assange Legal Myths about extradition


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:44 AM

Teribus. I think Drone strikes and extraordinary rendition are but two ways in which the US demonstrates it gives not a fig for due legal process. Assange is in the crosswires for political reasons and extremely vulnerable. The myth is not legal rules about extradition but the belief system that thinks the US will take a blind bit of notice of them. You may think politics is pure as driven snow> I most certainly do not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Teribus
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:57 AM

Iains, Assange is a complete and utter self absorbed creep who has thoughts for no-one other than himself.

I stated that Sweden under it's own laws and under EU Law is prohibited from extraditing people to any country where they might face the death penalty - That statement is correct - so for Julian "It's everybody's fault but mine" Assange to claim that he feared extradition as the reason for him scurrying into the Ecuadorian Embassy simply demonstrates his contempt for rule of law and marked cowardice on his part. He ran for cover and left his "sources" out to dry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Teribus
Date: 23 May 17 - 05:12 AM

Had Assange been extradited to Sweden to face the charges against him there is no way on earth that the USA would have dared face the approbrium that would have followed any action such as you describe. I will give you a name that illustrates this perfectly - Alexander Litvinenko who your pal Vladimir Putin had murdered. Litvinenko's murder was linked to another assassination Putin ordered in Russia, that of Anna Politkovskaya. No court cases will ever remove the stench of these acts from Putin's hands.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 17 - 05:25 AM

Teribus. What Assange may or not be as an individual is to my mind an irrelevance. What wikileaks has done is peel back the false facade of politics and show the rotten core beneath. It has publicly exposed the machinations of our supposed leaders and shown them in their true colours. This has not been particularly edifying to watch, but I think Mr Average owes wikileaks a huge debt of gratitude for lifting up various stones and letting the sun shine on the corruption beneath.
Opprobrium does not seem to worry uncle sam so long as he gets his wicked way. It certainly does not impede the mediaeval use of drones where the operators are judge, jury and executioner within milliseconds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Teribus
Date: 23 May 17 - 06:42 AM

Actually Iains WikiLeaks in the main told people very little that they didn't already know from before. The absolute avalanche of astounding information that was promised by the MSM outlets like the Guardian hyped to the high heavens eventually turned out to be a very damp squib indeed.

"Opprobrium does not seem to worry uncle sam so long as he gets his wicked way."

I think international opinion matters more to the Government and people of the United States of America than it does to the Government of Russia.

"It certainly does not impede the mediaeval use of drones where the operators are judge, jury and executioner within milliseconds."

Be interested in what the mediaevil use of drones amounts to? As far as I am aware drones have no medieval equivalent or parallel. Also as far as I am aware drones have only ever been deployed in areas of active threat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 17 - 06:55 AM

Noticeable that 'the usual suspect' refuses to respond to other possibilities and continues to provide nothing of his own.
All this appears to be based on the idea that we have no right to be made aware of the facts Wikileaks made accessible - I strange argument for a democratic country to put forward.
Whether Assange is a creep (takes one to know one) or no is totally immaterial - just a handy way to avoid what appears to be happening
Jim Carroll.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 17 - 10:33 AM

Teribus Medieval in the sense that might is right. The rule of law when a knight or Lord of the manor etc had an issue with a peasant was the biggest fist.This probably held sway long after magna carta. Similarly the drone is a big fist where no due legal process is allowed.
The legality of their use is dubious and has not been tested in any international court. Those involved in their use could be a party to murder.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/09/legal-and-moral-questions-about-drone-strikes-in-syria
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/15/targeted-killing-secrecy-drone-memos-excerpt
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/security/reports/2016/04/01/134494/are-u-s-drone-strikes-legal/


http://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2296&context=facpub
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/10/uk-drone-strikes-murder-charges-clarify-legal-basis-targeted-kill-


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 17 - 10:42 AM

Teribus.



https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2015/05/30/obama-and-the-return-to-the-medieval-period/


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Donuel
Date: 23 May 17 - 02:13 PM

Lox was 100% right. The majority here are very well informed.

Assange makes a good case for societal honesty. What we do with this honesty is another matter. There is room for more than a one size fits all opinion. While solid facts and changeable truth are two different things, we all witnessed innocent facts get misused and abused in a nefarious manner last fall.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 May 17 - 02:19 PM

Nobel Peace Prize.

What an honor.

Right up there with war criminal Henry Kissinger.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Teribus
Date: 24 May 17 - 02:36 AM

Iains, your Aletho News link. Any article that starts:

Today, May 30, 2015, is the 584th anniversary of the day on which Joan of Arc was burned at the stake by the British forces occupying France.

Completely roasts its own credibility. Do you honestly want me to point out all the mistakes included in that one sentence? If at anytime any writer or in this case "blogger" wishes to draw parallels from history it would be prudent of him/her to actually have some knowledge of said history.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Iains
Date: 24 May 17 - 04:45 AM

I would have thought the content was the relevant data, not the date it was created. The first sentence is basically correct, to explain the true context would require too much amplification that is simply not germane to the main thrust of the article, and would detract from it
Do you seriously expect all sources for debate to be created in real time?


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Teribus
Date: 24 May 17 - 11:17 AM

"The first sentence is basically correct"

Apart from the number of years that had passed since the execution of Joan of Arc there is not one single thing that is accurate in the sentence quoted:

"Today, May 30, 2015, is the 584th anniversary of the day on which Joan of Arc was burned at the stake by the British forces occupying France."

1: 584 years back from 2015 gives the date as 1431, simple arithmetic, which would tell anyone who knew anything about the history of the British Isles that 276 years would have to pass before any "British" forces could possibly set foot on French territory.

2: Anyone who knew anything about what was called "The Hundred Years War" would know it as a series of conflicts waged from 1337 to 1453 by the House of Plantagenet, rulers of the Kingdom of England, against the House of Valois, rulers of the Kingdom of France, over the succession of the French throne. At the time English Kings descendants of William the Conqueror held in their own right by inheritance and through marriage vast tracts of land in France, land that was subject to predation by the Kings of France, there was no British occupation of France


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Iains
Date: 24 May 17 - 02:54 PM

Teribus. The pedant in me would have to accept you are correct. I have no doubt the Author of the piece did not keep track of the transition from England to the UK over the space of many centuries. Americans in particular do not always recognise the subtlety of the distinction.I can concede that refusal to acknowledge the difference between English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh and British does cause anguish for some. The English did the dastardly deed all on their own, therefore the rest of us cannot be held accountable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 May 17 - 05:59 PM

None of which tap-dancing, Iains, has bugger-all to do with the point under discussion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Iains
Date: 25 May 17 - 05:12 AM

Greg F

AND..........?

Perhaps you would like to chastise those that pontificate about wine and weeds as well.

For myself, I will simply attempt to ignore you.


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