BS: Ignorant young people

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Smokey.
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:20 PM

I only know what he wrote:

"From the corner of my eye, I spotted one of the policemen from the earlier incident. He recognised me immediately. Officer KF936 came charging towards me. Tipping the wheelchair to the side, he pushed me onto the concrete, before grabbing my arms and dragging me across the road. The crowd of 200 ran and surrounded him. I got back up and stood in front of the horses."

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:16 PM

I re-watched the video. Do tell me when he stood up.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Smokey.
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 04:48 PM

Pity he stood up, otherwise he might have made a more convincing martyr.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 02:50 PM

Police brutalise wheelchairbound student

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,Gervase
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 08:57 AM

So, tell me, did *YOU* pay for your Further Education?
Yup, every penny. As a mature student on a vocational course I didn't get a grant or a loan, and my OU degree was paid for out of my own earnings. In both cases, however, I was already working and earning a reasonable amount of money, and so there was no question of taking on a 30-year debt or incurring interest on never-never terms.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 08:19 AM

Mob mentality is a beast. NON VIOLENT PROTESTS REQUIRE EDUCATION.
That irony aside, I have been to peace demonstrations that had the loftiest goals of peace while a few protestors thought the idea of the demonstration was to cause private property damage. The officers sought to cause personal injury.

Supporting a laudable goal and supporting every despicalble act by mob mentality are 2 entirely different things.

The fog of war and the fog of protest are related.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 08:16 AM

And those in your generation who claimed exemptions from papers F1, F2, F3, F4 (and possible other papers)through studying Fiance and Accounting at University.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 08:07 AM

Course they are Bonzo, course they are.
However, about your generation and university funding....?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 08:01 AM

"Surely Chartered Accountancy qualifications are not university qualifiactions."

No, it is a Professional qualification.

Oddly enough a degree qualification pales into insignificance once you are a Chartered Accountant - their exams and training are significantly harder than the little tests in a degree course!

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: theleveller
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 07:50 AM

"Things got a bit out of hand & we'd had a few drinks, we smashed the place up & Boris set fire to the toilets"

David Cameron, Oxford Uni 1986 student

Full force of the law? Hmmmmm......

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:31 AM

Gervase,

That reminds me of something said by a keynote speaker(may have been Chamber of Commerce0 at a conference some years back about how school leavers shouldn't expect to get a job with good pay.

Lets face it, if a large proportion of people finishing education are better qualified, with transferable skills, who will have aspirations to become a burger tosser, and if/as there is pressure from commercial lobbyists to drive down wages, then it is possible that the government may want to redress the balance to ensure the supply of unskilled cheap labour.

And thereby hangs a paradox - the same commercial sector is driven by consumerism, i.e. more people buying more. So if it isn't funded by wages, then it can only be funded by debt. So more personal debt, the banks rub there hands at he interest and default fees they can charge, then borrowers find they can't afford to make repayments, so the banks face a cashflow crises, therefore we/taxpayers have to bail the banks out.

it doesn't bear thinking about - oh but hasn't that just happened?

Then the second scenario - commerce decides that it doesn't actually need a UK work force, especially as there are developing economies where workers can be employed for pence rather than pounds. Before anyone calls me racist,I am not condemning the people employed, but the exploitation of the workers who are often work in appalling conditions.

So, someone may say, globalisation means that labour costs in UK need to be driven down to be competitive?

If one considers it acceptable that the main role of a worker is solely to create wealth for someone else,than it would be true.   However, this stifles innovation, and development of new markets. A good education system creates the prospects of innovation taking place, creating wealth at a micro level.

Looks like I am getting sidetracked again

S.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 03:38 AM

Of course they're not, SPB, but Bonzo doesn't have even one of his 3 legs to stand on in this discussion, and well he knows it.


From: Richie Black - PM

"ALL the political parties are despicable" So how do you want to run the country, Mascara ?

I'd love to see my country run by The Good Men and True, in ALL parties. Sadly, we have a very long way to go before that happens.

Oh...and Bitchie, just 'cos I look a darn sight better in mascara than you do, it's no reason to bitch about it. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 03:23 AM

Surely Chartered Accountancy qualifications are not university qualifiactions.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 11:26 PM

"Given the average earnings of around £25K, paying back £7 a week means that the government is only getting £11K back over 30 years and writing off the rest of the debt."

All based of course on the idiotic premise that your earnings remain static for the 30 years that you are referring to, which of course they will not.

For those entering the job marker the differential in potential earning power between someone with a degree and someone who has not is estimated as being somewhere between £160,000 and £400,000 over the course of their working lives.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 05:36 PM

So, tell me, did *YOU* pay for your Further Education?


Yes I did, all through my Chartered Accountancy training.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Gervase
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 05:12 PM

Sorry to disillusion the saloon bar bores and Tory dullards, but what you're being told by the Daily Mail and the Telegraph isn't actually true. This is an exercise in social engineering which has nothing whatsoever to do with the fiscal mess the country is currently in.

The figures simply don't add up.
To quote from the government's own website:
A graduate earning £25,000 per year would repay their loan at a rate of £6.92 per week. If earnings fall, then the repayments will fall as well. Graduates won't have to pay back anything until they are earning more than £21,000 a year...Any outstanding payments will be written off after 30 years. If you are in lower paid work or unpaid work (which may include time bringing up a family) you won't be asked to make a contribution.


Given the average earnings of around £25K, paying back £7 a week means that the government is only getting £11K back over 30 years and writing off the rest of the debt. The only way to recoup the money even on a salary of £25k, using the government's own figures for interest, is to pay a hell of a lot more money each month than it is claimed must be necessary. Someone isn't telling the whole truth.
So is this just an exercise in getting money off the government's balance sheet, similar to PFI, or is there an unspoken plan to ratchet up the payments/costs hugely in the future?

And we ask ourselves just why the fees are being raised.
We're told it's because we are horribly in debt. Yet, according to Osborne, structural deficit will be written off by 2014. The payback on fees doesn't kick in until 2016, so they can't be used to help write off the structural deficit, despite what Cable tells us - unless either he or Osborne is not telling the truth.

So, if higher tuition fees aren't part of debt reduction, what are they?
Is there a move within the Con-Dems to 'keep the oiks out', and to ensure that universities are once again populated by 'our sort'?
It's the sheer bloody dishonesty that gets my goat. Why can't they simply say 'There are too many people taking on tertiary education'?
Of course it would be hoping too much for them to admit publicly that 'too many of them are from undesirable backgrounds, and the lower orders really shouldn't be over-educated,' but at least you'd know where they were coming from.

It's worth noting that there is another aspect to this policy which will be almost as damaging, which is the removal of the Educational Maintenance Allowance. However, because most journalists earn more than the threshold, and it's only for poor people, very few actually know about that, and that's another story...

Essentially we have a government that favours wealth over ability, hence this piece of social engineering.
But what do I know; a simple builder and smallholder who didn't go to university at all. I never had the chance to smash up restaurants, let off fire extinguishers, trash people's offices and all the other japes that the Bullingdon Club got up to.

And before the usual suspects jump in and say, "But it was ZANU Lie Bore (gosh, how witty and original is that?) who started the tuition fees," make no mistake, the introduction of tuition fees by New Labour was a very bad move. I'm sorry if by saying that I burst the comforting party political bubble that some of you seem so keen to inflate, but no one party has a monopoly of right or wrong, and to take refuge behind old shibboleths is a sign of intellectual laziness. As is sneering homophobia. OK, Peter Mandelson is homosexual, but is it necessary to trot out the childish 'brown hatter' jibe? I don't condemn William Hague or Alan Duncan because they like musicals.

And do I support the students? Too bloody right!

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 04:13 PM

"ALL the political parties are despicable" So how do you want to run the country, Mascara ?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 04:01 PM

Tell me Lizzie if the student who takes out his £9000 per year loan then leaves university and then never gets paid more than £21000 per year - does that mean he has received his/her university education free?

According to the rules he or she does as he or she does not have to repay a penny.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 03:59 PM

So sorry josepp, it was I.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 03:57 PM

Well I'm now incredibly optimistic that the brave and independent youngsters who took to the streets recognise what is required to live in a democracy and won't turn out like some of the ignorant old buggers on this thread who seem to have learned nothing except selfishness from previous generations - especially our blackshirts who hark back to Moseley in their outlook. Fortunately, Bloody Thatcher's on her last legs and, hopefully so so are her spawn, disappearing into the horizon accompanied by the smell of wee-soaked longjohns.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 03:56 PM

"Yes we had 13 years of that from the despicable labour governments. Does this young generation think they are owed a free "further education"? I won't get a free pension - it costs."

ALL the political parties are despicable, Bonzo. That's what you're missing. And it's not only in our country this has happened, but in many.


So, tell me, did *YOU* pay for your Further Education?
Did your friends?
Do the young people of Scotland have to pay for theirs?

Answers on a postcard please..or even..on here, if you're feeling brave..

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: josepp
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 03:50 PM

Oh, and GUEST--you're supposed to sign a name, asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: josepp
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 03:49 PM

Britain's wealth came from the exploitation of China and India, they are now getting what they deserve and long overdue so don't complain. America is not far behind Britain for comeuppance. Talk about bubble economies, Britain and America have been on bubble economies for centuries--it's called colonialism. As it slowly disintegrates so does their wealth. Now they have to borrow from the ones they exploited while sending them their jobs and pay them for the crap they can no longer afford to make for themselves. Well, well, well...ain't that a bitch?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 03:32 PM

Hi Josepp

Tell me, what does your village do for an idiot when you go on holiday?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: josepp
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 03:15 PM

Bunch of spoiled kids. In other areas of the world, kids don't have any chance at college at any price. Brit and American kids don't have the first clue of what it means to be exploited. And the first time something doesn't go their way, they riot in the streets like the spoiled brats they are where mommy and daddy bought them everything they ever wanted and now when they can't get it, they throw a tantrum.

Don't blame the govt, blame yourselves. You voted for them. They told you what you wanted to hear--which had nothing to do with the truth--and you voted for them. Tough shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 02:48 PM

Just to even it up with the old people thread...

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 02:46 PM

I was referring, as you well know, to your generations university education.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 02:08 PM

Great news, several thugs arrested today. Did you see Gilmour on news, creep.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 01:37 PM

Gilmour arrested - excellent, should be thrown out of Cambridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 12:18 PM

"Why not Bonzo, your generation got it all for free."

No, your state pension entitlement is determined by the number of years' Class 1 National Insurance deductions from salaries under PAYE or Class 2 NIC conributions for self employed people.

Unemployed people have their contributions paid by the state through the dole system, which, you will like to know, I have used for all of 2 weeks in 45 years.

But then I have sensibly paid into a private pension scheme as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 10:51 AM

"I was referring to England's feudal past, when the peasants were compelled by blunt force to give part of their meager scrapings to their overlords."

Where did you get your ideas about feudal live? Hollywood? The period you are talking about as far as the UK goes lasted roughly from the ninth to the fifteenth centuries. Peasants "compelled" were they? And they did not "give part of their megre scrapings" they gave their time and their labour, in exchange they were given land, employment and protection. In time of war they had to serve their lord and monarch under arms and during such times they were paid and fed.

By the bye who makes up this "ruling class" that is supposed to be "squeezing" me and forcing me back into my feudal roots as a serf? "The window is closing" Hell as like it is. If you want something, you work hard and apply yourself single-mindedly to achieve you goal. As to me being in the "I got mine camp", I most certainly was not born with any silver spoon in my mouth, my first wage was £10 per month, out of which I used to save £4 - If "I got mine" mate it was because I worked hard and saved for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 06:11 AM

Are the fat cat capitalists who do sod-all work all their lives, and sit on there fat arses while those who are on minimum wage (in uk) or on starvation wages (in 'developing' economies) slog their guts out to line there pockets owed a single penny?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 05:34 AM

Why not Bonzo, your generation got it all for free.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 05:30 AM

I support the students 100%, but not the voilence.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 05:24 AM

"many 'ordinary folks' who've had enough of being used, of being abused, lied to and seen as nothing more than 'something' to make a profit from."

Yes we had 13 years of that from the despicable labour governments. Does this young generation think they are owed a free "further education"? I won't get a free pension - it costs.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,s
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 05:17 AM

Yes Richie.

Did you see the way that massive statue of Sadam was defiled??

Disgusting.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 03:39 AM

"So if they want to piss on this statue, or that statue, or climb The Cenotaph or graffiti Prince Charles' car I can't really blame them, to be honest...."

What could you expect from a pig but a grunt.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 03:04 AM

Oh..and I forgot to add, in my earlier post, that a few weeks back, after the very first student demonstration in London at Tory HQ, BBC Radio Devon interviewed the leader of the Student's Union down in Plymouth, a lovely, intelligent young woman, who spoke eloquently about the entire situation and how angry students were feeling, whilst condemning the violence on that day.

I got to talk to her too, when I rang in to the show. I thanked her for taking a stand against what is happening around us. I told her how proud I was of them all for having the guts to take to the streets in the first place...and how none of us had to start OUR lives in debt, purely to get a Univeristy Education.

She thanked me, from the bottom of her heart, bless her.

I'm sure the demonstrations will continue, but soon it'll not be just the students alone, but many 'ordinary folks' who've had enough of being used, of being abused, lied to and seen as nothing more than 'something' to make a profit from.

Already around 40% of people in Britain cannot pay their energy bills....down here in the West Country many more struggle to pay their water bills too, as we pay twice as much as the rest of the country.

FAR from being ignorant, our young people are lighting the way, which is as it should be. For way too long they've been silent. It's so good to hear their voices once more.

I'd say the only ignorance in this thread is from the person who started it, who sits in his Marie Antoinette Tower, far removed from the tough reality of Orwellian Corporate Bastard Life which weighs so heavy upon the shoulders and souls of so many in the UK, and around the world, these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 02:22 AM

I just posted this on the 'Ignorant Old People' Thread, it's relevant here too, IMHO:-

As this is a music forum, I'd just like to say that I spent last evening being entertained by a choir, an orchestra and a school swing band. Their ages ranged from around 14 to at least 75 (I knew some of them). They were all paragons of politeness and charm, all displayed astonishing talent, irrespective of their ages, and they all interacted as equals.

Friendship in music clearly doesn't recognise age difference as any kind of barrier. It was a privilege to be in their company, and a joy to witness 150 or so people of all ages joining together to produce something truly beautiful.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,eric the viking
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 07:28 PM

Thankyou.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,eric the viking
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 07:23 PM

Joe can you re set my earlier posting please? And put my name to it? Thanks.

---

We can't add your name, but we can do this. --Mod

---

Before anyone dares to lecture me about the freedoms fought for by the older generation my father fought in almost every theatre of the the second world war, my grandfather fought in the first and I have friends whose children are in Afghanistan as I type.
You talk about disgracing the memories of those who fought and died as if you speak for them. My father told me that he fought for freedom, to stop governments like that of Germany becoming so strong that they destroyed society. That he fought and saw most of his friends die to preserve freedoms taken from us by successive governments. That he fought to allow people freedom from the police state and for the right to protest.(He also gave up going to uni to fight and therefore sacrificed his future in more ways than one)
He also told me before he died he was sick that what he had fought for was being removed slowly and hoped (mistakenly)that the european union would ensure our individual freedom.

I tell you I support the students 100%. Maybe I don't support the violence against the police, but then ask those who have been on the other end of a police truncheon from a highly protected and legally inviolate thug in a uniform and they will tell you different.

If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
Winston Churchill

Those who sit here pontificating about when we were young lions remember, jobs were easy to come by forty years ago. you could go from one to another in a day. Most employers paid you to train and you could, if so inclined, go to night school, work hard and get a degree. You could get, "on the job" training a qualifications up to and beyond degree level. You could go to Uni straight from school with a full grant.You could work a few years, qualify in another area, as I did and then go with a grant. If you had to, you could get a job to suppliment your money or if you were wise and didn't drink it away you could save enough to get by on.Little of this exists for young people today.

If you were the son of a bus conductor and reasonable sized, poor family, like me then the thought of a debt of thousands (though it would be hundreds in those days) would have ensured that I would never have got a degree and life in a profession. (Even though I have done a range of different works). With a debt of equivallent size I would never have got a mortgage, I would never have got my first decent car on HP.

If you have no support for the students, you have no support for our future. All it seems to me is that people cling to the rhetoric of the time. This time it is right wing propaganda.

My son has just completed his degree and owes thousands, even with the limited financial assistance we were able to give him.Will he buy his own house? Hardly able to. He'll end up paying some property owner an inflated rent to his detriment. He and his girlfriend have a debt of tens of thousands. Try getting a mortgage with that !!

.

"That window is closing, and it's being closed because today's ruling class has decided it's in its better interest to go back to a "feudal" model of society. You seem to be in the "I got mine" camp, and good for you - I never even had the chance to acquire property, and neither have the majority of working people, to say nothing of the rest of the world. Poverty is making a comeback, and it's by design". Absolutely right.

Lastly we in Britain have litttle to be proud of in some aspects of our history. Examine our conquest of the America's and Africa and the Australian continent. How many of our soldiers died not in the name of liberty but conquest and enslavement? Some of my ancestors for certain.

"Bottles of urine were hurled on a day when democracy was held in contempt. " Democracy is pretty dead here. It has been held in contempt by those in power, not by those in protest !! (Examples such as MP's continuing expense abuses, increase in surveilence and the recent right wing cuts fly in the face of democracy.)

The young aren't any more ignorant than we were. The ignorant ones are those who think it is right to and that they can exploit us.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Smokey.
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 06:33 PM

Micawberism:

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Smokey.
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 06:18 PM

We need to stop, wherever possible, importing stuff we can produce ourselves and we need to severely restrict the amount of money taken out of the country for any reason. (restrictions lifted by Thatcher in 1979) If eastern growth was slowed down I think it would benefit them and us equally in the long term. They aren't likely to initiate it though, human nature being what it is. Unfortunately neither are we, for the same reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 06:06 PM

When I was young......................

I knew that I could go to University for free if I so chose.

I had a good education with very little stress.

I swatted up for my GCE's abour 3 weeks before I took them, and that was all the pressure I had.

I started my 'A' Levels but became bored rigid with them and so....

...I started work.

I didn't like my first job, in a bank, and so, after one week I left and got a new job, whwere I was far happier.

For this job, and indeed for ALL my subsequent jobs I never had to fill in vast forms, nor prove I had 36 exam qualifications in all the latest gizmos and gadgets within the Education System.

I was simply accepted for who I was. End of stress.

I was able to give up a job in the morning and find a new one in the afternoon, if I so chose.

I was never in debt.

Neither were my friends.

When my pals came out of University they started in good jobs, as there weren't that many folks who had degrees, so their degree really MEANT something...and they went on to have careers in their chosen subjects.

I always knew that there was a good chance I'd be able to buy a house one day in the not too distant future, with a mortgage I could afford.

I didn't have to worry about sexual diseases that could kill you. Nor did I look on every single person as a potential disease risk, or pervert. I was under no pressure to have sex with every Tom, Dick and Harry, nor did I want to. I could drink my drinks quite happily without ever worrying that someone had put something terrible into it.

I felt happy and free..and free and happy....

I looked forward to having a pension in my old age and to being cared for when I became old and infirm, being able to leave my house to my children one day...


Most young people feel they'll never be able to have a house they can afford. Most of them go to University and start their lives in debt.
They end up with crap jobs and crap degrees which have little value, other than to line the pockets of those who think up the entire 'get yer degree here!' system...They don't have 'careers' in their chosen subjects, because there are so very few careers left these days...Just crap jobs, for crap wages, for crap employers who expect you there 24/7 whilst giving you no contract, no regular hours, no loyalty...and who'll spit you out in an instant if their takings go down a fraction...

Their worried about education, housing, working, pensions, health, debts, bills....

So if they want to piss on this statue, or that statue, or climb The Cenotaph or graffiti Prince Charles' car I can't really blame them, to be honest....

Because I know that Once Upon A Time I lived in Camelot...and sadly, the Knights of the Crooked Table have lost that Golden City, thrown it to the Sharks, to the Enemy Within, with no thought for the new young people of Camelot, no concern whatsoever...

So let them shout and scream to the men and women who gave their lives for this country, for other countries too, indeed, for the entire world..because, who knows, maybe, just maybe, those for whom The Cenotaph stands may be just as angry....and maybe, somewhere 'out there', in another land, far far away, The Good Men And True may hear the desperate cries of a Hopeless Generation who want, more than anything, to simply be able to live their lives in the way we did...in freedom and happiness.

Personally, I don't think that's too much to ask of life.

And personally, I think any bastard who has contributed towards the terrible situation that so many young people now find themselves in, should be put up against a wall and shot...but hey, that's just lil' ol' me and my sense of instant justice, because I'm fair sickened to my soul with so many things I see happening around me.

Viva La Revolucion!

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 05:47 PM

VERY interesting post, Smokey. You make some excellent points there.

What we really have is western societies in sharp decline, clinging to illusions of affluence that have been inherited from a previous age that is with us no longer. Asia is in the ascendency, and will be for the forseeable future, and the West is in decline. That being the case, things are going to be tough for people in the West, and I imagine it will bring in a lengthy period of great social unrest and political instability.

What remains unanswered is how well the Indians and Chinese will handle their economic ascendency...and whether they will manage to avoid getting into a major conflict with one another. I think there is a strong risk of such a conflict arising. If it does, I figure the Indians will get the worst of it.

Meantime, we westerners will be watching our own societies decline. Not a pleasant prospect.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 05:46 PM

""I have no dog in this fight, but I think the issues of the tuition protests ought to be articulated clearly in any discussion, in place of jingoistic histrionics and impassioned rhetoric without any insight.""

A look at this website will give a pretty clear picture of the issues Amos.

http://www.factsonfees.com

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 05:22 PM

Crackin' post Smokey.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 04:56 PM

Interesting post there Smokey.

My wifes income is 90% Euros which has to be converted by the UK bank and she gets charged £7 per every payment from abroad.

That income gets spent in Lincolnshire.

Why should she have to pay the 7 quids? She is bringing wealth into the country and is penalised for that. Unlike some who earn money in this country and send it abroad to support their families in other countries.

WTF has that got to do with this thread? ermmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Smokey.
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 04:32 PM

There are more students than the country can afford, and most of them are doing 'scarecrow' degrees in subjects which are of no real value to anyone. The theory is that when they have gained these qualifications, they all get well enough paid jobs to pay back the loans foisted on them in order to gain their 'education'. Most of those jobs, of course, will never exist.

Meanwhile, the level of unemployment looks much better than it really is, and the education system looks as if it's doing a far better job than it really is, at least to the wishful thinking and/or the severely gullible. It's an unsustainable situation brought about by the vote-catching short-term thinking we have been governed by for at least the last thirty years.

Most people (UK) are living far beyond their means in a constant state of debt and we have the ludicrous situation where a tramp living in a cardboard box actually has more wealth than the average household, and uses up far less resources. True, he doesn't pay any taxes, but then he isn't paying them with borrowed money that never existed either. It occurs to me that the only real wealth going into the nation's coffers is from the genuinely rich, in which case we probably shouldn't be moaning too loudly about them.

Back when we had wealth producing industry, the 'working class' actually had some clout because their contribution was vital to the big picture, making them a valuable asset. Now the majority of jobs generate nothing and merely use up resources which common sense says should be valued and preserved.

It was asked on another thread where all the wealth is going. It's going east, sure as eggs is eggs. It's not rocket science; eastern economies are growing and ours are suffering. We are living on the backs of Chinese children digging coal out of pits in worse conditions than we had in Roman times; people dying of mercury poisoning in factories we wouldn't tolerate, to make us 'energy saving' light bulbs - all to support our self-destructive illusion of wealth.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 04:17 PM

I hope you are 94, because it boggles the mind to imagine how you became so fookin` embittered in fewer than eight decades.