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Translation from Scots req'd

michaelr 13 Dec 10 - 05:32 PM
Jim McLean 13 Dec 10 - 06:23 PM
GUEST,guest 13 Dec 10 - 06:59 PM
GUEST,guest 14 Dec 10 - 05:16 AM
michaelr 14 Dec 10 - 12:04 PM
GUEST,Auldtimer 14 Dec 10 - 12:25 PM
BobKnight 14 Dec 10 - 01:15 PM
Dave MacKenzie 14 Dec 10 - 03:49 PM
Effsee 14 Dec 10 - 04:02 PM
GUEST,guest 14 Dec 10 - 04:27 PM
michaelr 14 Dec 10 - 05:04 PM
Dave MacKenzie 14 Dec 10 - 07:24 PM
Effsee 14 Dec 10 - 10:48 PM
BobKnight 15 Dec 10 - 04:56 AM
Rob Naylor 15 Dec 10 - 05:49 AM
GUEST,Grishka 15 Dec 10 - 07:07 AM
GUEST,guest 15 Dec 10 - 07:18 AM
Jim McLean 15 Dec 10 - 07:28 AM
Dave MacKenzie 15 Dec 10 - 10:14 AM
An Buachaill Caol Dubh 15 Dec 10 - 11:42 AM
GUEST,Grishka 15 Dec 10 - 11:45 AM
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Subject: Translation from Scots req'd
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:32 PM

This is from The Dogsbody Papers:

I lang hae thought, my English friend,
Some good advice to proffer,
From wisdom that the ancients kenned
The best a Bard can offer.

'Twill help you thro' this Vale o' Woe,
An' win Dame Fortune's smile,
An' bring bad tidings to your foe
An' mak' him rin a mile.

'Twill gain you, if the truth be told,
The favour o' the lasses,
An' fill your pouches fu' o' gold
An' keep topped up your glasses.

'Twill mak' a guid man o' a bad,
A scholar o' a dunce;
So pin your lugs back, Jimmy lad,
I'll no' but say this once.

Gin aiblins clish-ma-davers scrieve
A daimen-icker thrave;
Gif oughtlins houghmagandie nieve
Han'-wale it wi' the lave;
Tho' pickle, plackless pechans pyke
An' a' gae tapsalteerie,
In orra duddies, on yer byke,
Awa' an' ca' yer peerie.

Can anyone translate that last verse?


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: Jim McLean
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:23 PM

I wouldn't worry about it. It a joke verse meant to confuse an Englishman (see verse one). The first line literally translated means 'if perhaps (someone) writes gossip/garbage'.
The second line is gramatically incorrect and should read A daimen-icker in a thrave, i.e. a random ear of corn in a bundle/stook (from Burns' To a Mouse) and the next two lines I wuld translate as 'masturbation'!
The rest really means Everything is gone to hell so you can to, i.e. fuck off.
Rather sad, but the point is you don't understand the Scottish language .... crudely made.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:59 PM

I know exactly what the rhymer is saying and am working to give the translation in some sort of English rhyme. A bit of a task as I have never composed a verse in that language in my life.


The second last word in the first line should be "clavers"
This line would translate as follows:--

"Perhaps if scandal- mongers write"


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:16 AM

Jim"s post took place when I had already started writing mine, If I
knew of a way to put a part typed post aside I would not have sent
mine.
It certainly saved me from the effort of trying to outdo M"Gonigall or Willie Breakspear.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: michaelr
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 12:04 PM

A good start, and thanks. Can anyone give more detailed info on the words/phrases?


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: GUEST,Auldtimer
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 12:25 PM

"houghmagandie" - slap and tickel, but dirtier.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: BobKnight
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 01:15 PM

Some of the words have multiple usage. Jim McClean hit it more or less on the nail - it's nonsensical.
Haughmagandie = fornication
tapsalteerie = topsy turvy
Orra duddies = Bad/dirty clothing
Ca' = doesnt really translate, but means to drive something - ca' yer bike, means to pedal your bike, but "ca' yer peerie," means to drive your spinning top.
Peerie = spinning top, it can also mean "small" in the Shetland Isles, but it's "peedie" in the Orkney Islands.
Neive = hand or fist.

However, as I've already said - some of the words have multiple meanings - so it'a difficult to translate literally, and some of it is archaic - no longer in daily use.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 03:49 PM

"houghmagandie" - not to be, but frequently is, confused with "hogmanay"!


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: Effsee
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:02 PM

The two have been known to occur together! ;-)


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:27 PM

Atweel lassie ye ur a loosum kimmer, an ma fegs ye hae a braw twaesum
o paps. Its aiblins, gin ye wur affeerin, we culd forgedder i the
yowe trammel for a darg o houghmagandie.
Gin ye suld spier whut a hae been troupin tae ye, a suld hae tae sough it intae yer lug.

An early christmas present to all young men.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: michaelr
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:04 PM

Curiouser and curiouser!


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 07:24 PM

AS I said, Effsee.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: Effsee
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 10:48 PM

I nearly said "come together"!
But ye didnae Dave!


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: BobKnight
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 04:56 AM

Scottish births used to peak in September - but I don't think that's still the case.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 05:49 AM

Atweel lassie ye ur a loosum kimmer, an ma fegs ye hae a braw twaesum
o paps. Its aiblins, gin ye wur affeerin, we culd forgedder i the
yowe trammel for a darg o houghmagandie.
Gin ye suld spier whut a hae been troupin tae ye, a suld hae tae sough it intae yer lug.


Well I understand all that and I'm only about 1/16 Scottish...but some of the words are similar to the particular Yorkshire dialect I was brought up with.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 07:07 AM

For us furriners you should have mentioned what I now found out by googling: that it's a parody of Burns' "Epistle To A Young Friend". And what a masterful parody, in the best traditions of all-British humour - the English will have no choice but to applaud.

Just about every dialect or language variant in the world offers similar stories taunting condescending speakers of the standard. They all end with agglomerations of nonstandard words, and some cheating there is considered part of the game.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 07:18 AM

Rob,for the sake of those hanging by their fingernails awaiting
enlightment, I give the translation.

Verily, my dear young lady you are an excellent example of a most desirable female, and to add to your charms you have been endowed with a superb pair of mammary glands. Perhaps, if you were willing, we could get together at dusk some evening for a little horizontal relaxation.
Should you ask what I have been saying to you, I would have to whisper it into your ear.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: Jim McLean
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 07:28 AM

It's hardly a parody. The only comparison is that the 'spoof' vesion is offering advice to an English friend but sends him up in the last verse. Burns' Epistle to a young friend also offers advice but details it in homely philosophical terms, apologising at the beginning if it is seen as a sermon.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 10:14 AM

"But ye didnae Dave!"

I have a bad habit of not insulting my intended audience by not underestimating their intelligence by filling in all the obvious gaps.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 11:42 AM

Yes, Jim's right. The style is a take-off of that "Epistle", but it's really a collage of other Scots terms culled largely from Burns's work. I think Mark Twain has a similar take-off of Shakespeare - lines from various plays stitched together - in "Huckleberry Finn"


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots req'd
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 11:45 AM

Take-off or parody - I like it.


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