Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs

Subject: Irish Republican songs
From:
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 08:29 AM

I'm studying Irish rebel songs and I'm looking for some Republican songs or the 1970's (I've already got some Unionits songs, and I need Republican's one for my study). I'd be glad if someone could help me. Thanks a million ! Stephanie

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: JedMarum
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 08:53 AM

You might try the Search the Digi Trad facility on the main Mudcat page. If you type in @irish@rebel you get a very long list of Irish republican songs from which you may find your song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 10:21 AM

and you'll find a couple of the newer ones at:
http://www.uni-mainz.de/~cielp005/selectasong.htm

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: paddymac
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 10:36 AM

Stephanie - There are many songs out there that likely meet your "70's" qualifier. There is also great variation in the nature of rebel songs. Some speak about fighting or specific events, and some speak to root causes in more subtle ways. My personal favorite from the 70's is Pete St John's "Fields of Athenry", which speaks to the famine era and transportation. It was instantly adopted into the Irish folk tradition and remains one of the most popular pub songs year after year.

Enjoy your search.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 10:36 PM

You might consider "This Little Place Called Ireland" which was done by Barleycorn. It was written by Liam Tiernan. Joe McDonnell would be another. Also Sean South of Garryowen. The list is pretty long. The best suggestion was to search the DT. If you are still in need, come back to this thread and we can fix you up.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Ballygally Whistler
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 07:34 PM

Come on Heireann..

I lived in North Belfast for 33 years during the troubles. Be it provo, sticky, uvf,uda,lvf or any other songs linked to whoever..drop it..There's a lot more to N.Ireland than songs from Biggot's..Folk & Traditional music in Ireland has been stained by this sort of crap

.........

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Terry
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 07:47 PM

I bought an album in Northern Ireland in the early 1970s by The Men Of No Property, which I've lost in subsequent moves. The songs were about the (then) recent troubles and included (some of these titles may not be accurate, but might give you words to search on):

Rubber Bullets For The Ladies, Bogside Doodlebug, Women of Ballymurphy, Ballad of Jerry (?) O'Hagan, Belfast '69, Ballad of Burntullet (sp?) Bridge, I Long To Leave Old Belfast Town, Lough Erne Fishermen, The Smuggling Song.

The album included a spoken poem, Hughes Bakery Van, and an essay entitled Why Are The British Troops Here?

I don't know where you'd begin to look, but if you can find that album, you'll have a pretty good collection of songs about the incidents that took place in N. Ireland in the 70s. If you'd like me to, I can probably remember the lyrics to a few of the songs and would be happy to post them for you.

Good luck!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 03:47 AM

Stephanie,
there have been many recent Irish rebel songs posted in this forum that have not yet found their way into the database. You can find them by making a Forum Search and entering into the "subject" line the following words:
- for songs that B. Whistler (correctly, in my eyes) calls "crap" but that are nonetheless for several reasons a worthy object of study:
fenian
irish rebel
irish civil rights
rockall
helicopter
armalite
sniper
irish brigade
white, orange and green
irish republican
- for (in my eyes) better ones that might survive the test of time):
gallipoli
derry
there were roses
belfast town
last house

In case you have a request for a special song I am sure that even some of us that don't like that song will post it for your study. Care to tell a bit more about it?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: paddymac
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 09:20 AM

Bg Whistler certainly has a right to his own opinion, just as I have a right to disagree with him. I view the republican song tradition as a contemporary manifestation of the ancient bardic tradition. The best way to stop production of republican material is to bust your ass fighting against the injustices which give rise to it.

That said, I do agree that there is much more to the Irish music tradition than just songs of injustice. Like any other tradition, at least those of my limited experience, there is something there for everyone.

Subject: Some words about my study
From: Stephanie
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 01:54 PM

First I'd like to thank all those who answered me and gave me some clues for my study. My thesis is based on three different points. In the first one I draw a parallel between Irish history from 1791 to 1923 and rebel songs. The second one is a study on the Heroes, on the one hand, and on the use of symbols and emblems in these songs. And finally my last point is a study on the tunes, choruses as well as the role of the songs. I was looking for songs of the 70's to conclude my thesis because this period is rich in events and it enabled me to show that the struggle was still going on and that partition did not resolve anything. I would be glad if someone has some remark to make, it could help me as well.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 02:07 PM

When was THERE WERE ROSES written?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 06:15 PM

Hi, Jeri, Do a Forum search -- we had a thread on There Were Roses about 2 months ago.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Ferret
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 08:42 AM

ho hum, i do hop this dose not get out of hand ferret

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From:
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 10:55 AM

When you start throwing stones at the music of others you will not damage the people- you will damage the art - the music and the poetry- the lyrics.

Those who can only see politics in music and verse need glasses!-perhaps glasses of whiskey!

There can be an argument against singing rebel songs and that is against singing rebel songs of one side as is the case in Irish America which basically is intolerant of all other traditions but that of the republican and nationalist. Intolerance is basicly wrong so to correct this situation one must be always inclusive. To do this one need only become open and free and sing the songs of both sides. This makes for a wonderful concert of alternating points of view. There is nothing worse than hearing nothing but republican/nationalist rebel songs which uplift one group of thugs at the expense of the other when all they are is thugs any way. (which is by the way why you should never pay any money out in donation or cover or otherwise to hear performers of Irish republican/nationalist music because as recent news articles and statements by the secretary of state for northern ireland prove- much money is still being passed under the table at such events- and is laundered- prior to transport to Ireland where it is used to kill innocents- this includes St. Patrick's day parade money which has been turned into bombs and guns for decades as it is being done right now)

By singing the songs of both sides we preserve all of the music and art and not just some of it. Let the audience decide what to believe- but give them the choice - dont ram republicanism down their throats is so often done.

If you have confidence in your message it will prevail. Censorship only demonstrates a lack of confidence in your message.

If you play nothing but rebel and republican songs or play none of the fine music of solidarity produced by both sides of the isle of Ireland at all you should consider the artistic music and verse created by the unionist, loyalist and orange traditions. By including it all you will provide a multi dimensional program. You will find that most of the unionist material is totally unknown in the USA at least and as a result your program will be uplifting and enlightening and new once again.

Stop in for the largest collection of unionist orange and loyalist songs on the web including ballads of the 17th century. I guarantee they will be of interest and enjoyment. I provide them for their art as should all who are concerned with music. http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5567/ooooo.html

Remember- censorship and exclusion make up a two edged sword which someday others may take from you to eliminate your own art!

Conrad Bladey [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 11:34 AM

Conrad,

You might be new so I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not just an ignorant bigot. I notice that Nationalists, in your mind, are thugs. What then are the Unionist paramilitaries? You know, the ones who are doing all they can to sabotage the peace process?? You know, the ones that have killed and injured exponentially more people in the North than the IRA? Are they thugs too? Did you ever stop to think that the reason that "uninformed Yanks" prefer the songs of the Nationalist cause is because most of us are here because the English kicked our people off their land to starve so they could raise cattle for export? I find your logic to be flawed, and arrogant. One of you once said that you wouldn't be so opposed to the Nationalist cause if they kept it in their own country. That's a deal. Remove your troops from the land of my Grandparents and relatives, and the fight can stop. Tell your cronies to quit using the 12th of July as an excuse to vandalize places of worship and harass and attack Catholics. Embrace the type of philosophy expressed in Sean Tyrell's version of the old poem entitled "The 12th of July". Understand that the Catholics and Protestants that live in the North of Ireland are all Irish people and their futures are inextricably linked. The trouble with certain among you is that you throw out stupid statements which cause those of us who come from Republican/Nationalist families to figure you for people who believe "the trouble with Ireland is the Irish". And then you have the stones to castigate Irish Americans who believe, to quote Terence MacSwiney, that "in matters of principle there can be no compromise". Your comments, sir, are as bigotted and ignorant as those you accuse of the same.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 11:40 AM

And before the rest of you start castigating me, I will repeat my earlier comments. If you come in to this village throwing around terms like "thug", etc. in a way which shows disregard for other peoples position, you have made yourself a target for response in kind. If this man had come in making reasonable arguements aimed at finding common ground to move forward with the will of the people of the North, Catholic and Protestant, Nationalist and Unionist, I would then engage him in a respectful debate. He did not. He started using terms and taking positions designed to inflame. The people of the North have spoken convincingly that they want the way of law, and negotiation. People who say idiotic, bigotted things deserve to be called idiots and bigots.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 12:24 PM

My prediction is the ensuing flame war about who has been the biggest bunch of thugs and who did what evil to whom will now last until mid October. Perhaps someone will suggest talking about current feelings and what should be being done NOW, but they will be dismissed - especially if that suggestion is made by someone from Ireland.

Nostradumbass has spoken.

(Note: I am sick of the finger-pointing and name-calling that has occurred in this and other forums. If you're involved, and aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Does anyone wonder why it continues when few people can see the future as more important than the past?)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 12:31 PM

I NEVER respond to these threads, being a complete outsider in these matters (and seeing where they lead, and how they end up). However the word "thug" is the key, as Mick says. Don't use terms like that to make your point. Think it, if you will, but don't write it.

Rick Fielding

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 12:58 PM

I believe that is what I said, Jeri. The only reason I put the rest of the information in the thread is because for far too long, all terrorism in the North has been laid at the doorstep of the Nationalist. It must not be allowed to go unchallenged. The simple fact is that people must stop using these terms. And they must respect the wishes of the people of the North of Ireland. A very good discussion of this occurred in the "Back Home in Derry" thread. CLICK HERE for one of my responses to this.

I know that this makes many of you uncomfortable, but it is a matter of principle for me. That principle is that people must agree to discuss problems in an intelligent fashion. If they choose the path of ignorance, I will label them as such and then ignore them. Sapper, is an example of a man who chose the path of discussion. Penny is another. After a rocky start, I have come to greatly respect their opinions in this matter. They remind me that the English are a warm and hospitable people with a rich culture. And that many among them long for peace with justice in the North of Ireland just as Irish Americans, and the Irish themselves do.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Penny S.
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 05:23 PM

I do think that Conrad referred to thuggery on both sides, as well as asking for the songs of both sides to be heard. The people of the North asked for peace, and there are those in both communities who are denying it. The latest reported problem has been the expulsion of 15 year-olds under threat of death, and at the time, the papers also referred to similar behaviour on the other side. Beating children up with baseball bats does demand some appropriate description of the perpetrators.That sort of behaviour doesn't have much to do with peace, or justice, or unity. And it is used by the politicians to delay the slow moves to change.

Penny

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Ferret
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 05:52 PM

Well said Mick Ihave just come back from Ireland were I was a guest of both sides and given grate hospitality by both sides. {Oh god my head hurt in the mornings} and it was made very clear that all sides were sick and tired of the troubles, and just wont peace.

Tiocfaidh ar La.

all the best

ferret

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Mandochop
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 09:45 PM

uhh.....

I hate to break in on all this wonderful rhetoric, but there are a few songs I'd like to suggest. "Come out Ye Black and Tans" is a great IRA song, and "Hills of Greenmore" is a great song from the 70s. Another great unionist song is "Monto", or "Take me up to Monto". I've heard a great many names for it.

Mandochop

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: alison
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 02:29 AM

It is good to see that both sides want peace, and I hope that this time it lasts....... but why do we have to include political slogans in our responses.... "Tiocfaidh ar La"(Republican slogan meaning "our day will come")...... is offensive to those on one "side"... same as if someone else finished their contribution with "No Surrender"(Loyalist slogan) it would be offensive to the other "side"..... let's think about what we're writing and whether it will upset or hurt others.

My 2cents worth....I think the thread earlier implied that there were "thugs" on both sides....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: alison
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 02:44 AM

Here is an earlier thread where this was "discussed"..... unfortunately one of our well loved contributors felt it necessary to leave because of "slogans" etc.......

Tiocfaidh ar La...etc

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Ferret
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 07:27 AM

Alison Alot of those who wont peace feel lick a third side and one I give my suport so Tiocfaidh ar La I will stand with this for the peace sekers.

As for songs 'Ireland united gaelic and free' the 'Ballamena bible belt blockade' 'Derry lullaby' all the best ferret

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Susan of DT
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 09:21 AM

gee, I was hoping for some songs on this thread, from eithr side.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: fiosrach
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 09:37 AM

Ferret: 'Ballamena bible belt blockade' sounds interesting. How soes it go?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Ferret
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 01:50 PM

fiosrach i have the Ballamenna bible belt blocade on tape i will try to get it writen out for you. all the best ferret

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 02:13 PM

In the hope that there are people who want to discuss things in an open way leading to understanding, let me respond to two people who I greatly respect, one of whom I pursue relentlessly through the cyber hills and dales ****GRIN****. That would be Penny and Alison, otherwise known as THE FAIR ONE.

I am sure you have heard the term "on the square". It is used to describe someone who says words that say one thing, but the agenda is different. Such as "kidding on the square" where we act like we are just kidding when we really meant to be mean. I found the comments made by Conrad to be "on the square". While he professes to be talking about both sides, his only attacks or jabs were at Republicans. He mentions nothing about the sources of funds that the loyalist militia's get, talks about Irish Americans as if they are just poor eejits completely unaware of the real truth, and talks about showing all sides music and then only cites a Unionist/Loyalist/Orange site. Then he chastises Yanks for only singing in the Republican tradition. In other words, his agenda shows through his poor attempt at appearing to discuss in an intelligent fashion. And by the way, Sir, no one here is throwing stones at the music of the Orange tradition which makes your first comment gratuitous. Your second comment also demonstrates that you are not serious about understanding, just painting a picture that makes you seem more than you are.

As a scholarly exercise, the singing of the music of both sides is fine. But, IMHO, it is best done with both sides singing there own. The music was born of the events and injustices, both perceived and real, and must be sung with the passion of those that believe in the cause.

Last comment, ..........context is hard to see here so let me give you mine. I have great respect for seekers of understanding. They approach things in a way which fosters constructive change. In my "day job" I often see management types who drop the slogans and seek to understand the employees motivations for their actions. These are people for whom I have great respect. I also see, far more often, management types who can't get past their set perceptions, spout the same old rhetoric, and could give a shit about the ee's. I battle these with a will and a passion, and they hate me. The analogy applies here. Those who seek to understand, and look towards a better future such as Penny and Alison and others, I respect mightily and will do my best to pass on what I know and try to understand their positions. The others who use thinly disguised comments to promote an agenda, I suffer these lightly.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Pedantic
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 02:20 PM

Mick,"On the square" is a Masonic slogan

Subject: Lyr Add: THIS LITTLE PLACE CALLED IRELAND^^
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 02:27 PM

Here is a song that was written by Liam Tiernan, I believe in the 70's. Liam was a founding member of Barleycorn. This is the band that recorded "The Men behind the Wire" originally, I believe. Please forgive the caps but I copied it from my cue cards

THIS LITTLE PLACE CALLED IRELAND

When my days were filled with brightness and my mind was filled with dreams
Of the wondrous things that lay ahead and all my boyhood schemes,
I thought of dear old Ireland and the sorrow she had seen,
And I think of sad misfortunes, and how things might have been.

CHORUS
But remember one thing: Irish men, all gallant bold and true
This little place called Ireland belongs to me and you.

The sorrow that I speak of is the history you all know,
Of our hero's dreams that had been crushed by the rifles of our foes.
Our brave young men had died there, as they fought with heart and hand.
Oh dear God! they went with hearts so brave, as for liberty did stand.

[Chorus & lead break:]

Oh I think of how our land would be, if our troubles were all gone,
When our loved ones could all rest with ease, and not fear light of dawn,
When our children they could sing and play, from early morning light.
And not have guns and uniforms an ever-present sight.

[Chorus twice and end.]

Changed from all caps. --JoeClone, 11-Jul-02.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 02:28 PM

How apropos!!!!!! hahahahahahahahahahaha LMAO.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE BALLAMENA BIBLE BELT BLOCKADE
From: Ferret
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 03:45 PM

here you go fiosrach

(THE BALLAMENA BIBLE BELT BLOCKADE)

Said Peter Robinson one day,
Maggie never have her way
We'll close the north without one threat being made,
Oh it's but hard to have one say,
When a tractor blocks the way,
At the Ballamena bible belt blockade

Oh for Ulster has said no,
The pact will have to go
We'll show them that us prods are not afraid,
So we'll close down all the shops,
And the work will have to stop,
At the Ballamena bible belt blockade

On that frosty Monday morning,
Did not heed the factory horn,
No wonder Peter Barry look dismayed
Or for the local R.U.C.,
Were all siting drinking tea,
At the Ballamena bible belt blockade

Now the farmers to a man,
Swore they all support the plan
There tractors and there trailers they displayed
Oh but they broke there solemn vow's,
And went home to milk the cows,
At the Ballamena bible belt blockade

Now the gantlet it was throne,
Will the bullyboys look on?
And I don't think there from the boy brigade,
With their cudgels and their masks,
Kind persuasion was their task
At the Ballamena bible belt blockade

Well wen you walk down Belfast town,
Maggie's closed the factory's down,
The heroes in the shipyards won't get paid,
So wen your cards comes from the dole,
You can ram them up you hole,
At the Ballamena bible belt blockade,
At the Ballamena bible belt blockade.

well here it is for what it's worth. all the best ferret

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: alison
Date: 13 Sep 99 - 01:27 AM

good song Mick... send me the tune and I'll post it.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: paddymac
Date: 13 Sep 99 - 01:40 AM

Stephanie - In an earlier post I suggested "The Fields of Athenry" as a "70's" song of possible interest to you. Since that post, I have found (from another mudcat thread) that the song was originally published as a Dublin broadsheet in 1880s. St. John's lyrics appear to have come in the main directly from the 1880s version, called "The Hills of Athenry". It burst my bubble of admiration for St John, and makes me wonder now about actual origins of his other stuff.

I, and likely others, would like to see your thesis when you get it finished.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Sep 99 - 08:29 AM

I would like to second paddymac. I would love to see the thesis when finished.

BTW, the "how a propos" comment was referencing the fact that "on the square" was a Masonic slogan. I thought that this was funny as hell, given the nature of the discussion. Here you have a guy debating furiously the Republican/Catholic position using a Masonic slogan. I love it. It is good to laugh at oneself.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Penny S.
Date: 13 Sep 99 - 03:42 PM

Big Mick, I'm curious. I had the impression that as well as meaning that a person referred to was a freemason, I thought that it implied probity and adherence to masonic principles of fair dealing. Could your meaning derive from a perception that in some places and times the principles were honoured more in the breach than the observance?

Penny

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Sep 99 - 09:04 PM

Great observation, Penny, but then I have come to expect that of you. I am not sure, but that would seem to be as good an explanation as any as to how "kidding on the square" and similar sayings came about. The place that I recall hearing this term used on a regular basis was Southie (South Boston, for the uninitiated). This is a heavily Irish Catholic enclave. I wonder if it developed as a tongue in cheek jab at the Masons.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Republican songs
From: RMS
Date: 14 Sep 99 - 02:14 PM

I thought James Connolly said "No Surrender".