BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect

Subject: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 03:14 PM

In case anyone hasn't heard it yet, the Oldham East and Saddleworth by-election has been called for Thursday 13th January. What hasn't been so widely announced is that BNP leader, Nick Griffin will be standing.

Given the mass discontent with the Tories and Lib-Dems, plus the fact that the seat was previously held by a disgraced Labour MP, plus the fact that the Conservative candidate is what the BNP in all its racist bigotry calls an ethnic, Griffin clearly hopes to do better than he did in Barking at the general election.

He won't win, but make no mistake. A respectable turnout for the British Nazi Party would be a disaster in terms of race relations in Oldham. Also, it could mark a turning back for them at a time when their fortunes seem very much on the wane.

I am not from Oldham, and I can't advise people how to get involved. But if there is anyone out there who lives in that area, and understands the dangers of fascism, please do whatever you can to stop this from happening.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 05:30 PM

Owen, We are currently having enough problems on with Conventional political parties here without including these clowns !

I doubt the populace will even give notice to them. Yes we are living in difficult times, but people have learned the bitter lessons of history, people come forward now to counter the fear and hate with unity and hope, and to protect the democratic process.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 05:31 PM

Well-said, Richie and Owen.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 05:54 PM

Will he be complying with party funding laws, as the past history recorded by the Electoral Commission doesn't seem to indicate that he will...

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 06:15 PM

I bet the police are blessing him.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 04:39 AM

I have a concern that by using his name and the name of his cult, (I think I spelt that right..) they have a trawl and troll policy of finding these debates and joining in.

Not wanting to stop debate, but the more we post to it, the higher the chance of them wading in.

My first and final post on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 06:06 AM

Kitty,

The day the B*N*P complies with any legal requirement will be a major breakthrough. However, there's one thing which may stop Griffin dead in his tracks. The court case relating to the B*N*P's racist constitution, and Griffin's alleged contempt of court is due to resume tomorrow.

See http://uaf.org.uk/2010/12/demonstrate-at-nazi-bnp-leader-nick-griffins-court-hearing/for more info.

There is a strong possibility that Griffin could be jailed over the constitution and/or contempt. Either way, a stretch in the slammer would do his election campaign no good at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Smokey.
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 01:45 PM

Either way, a stretch in the slammer would do his election campaign no good at all.

I wouldn't bet on that, but otherwise the thought of him behind bars is a most delightful one.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 02:38 PM

I am not a member of the BNP, or even a supporter, but there is much hypocrisy in the Anti Griffin campaign.

I wont forget when Mr Griffin appeared on BBC Question Time and was referred to as a Fascist sympathiser by a certain Mr Straw.

Mr Griffin retorted that his father had served in the RAF fighting Fascism in WW2, while Mr Straw's father had spent the war in jail, as a conscientious objector.

While I admire pacifist ideology, Mr Straw's comments were ill advised in the extreme.
The response is in line for "most cutting of the decade"

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 02:46 PM

I hardly think that dissafected LibDem voters will opt for an even more right wing party.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 02:58 PM

Thats hardly the point Silas, Mr Griffin has every right to stand for election....even if he received only one vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Smokey.
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 03:53 PM

Jack Straw did rather walk into that one - 'own goal', I think is the expression..

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 04:15 PM

Just because people dislike him and what they think he stands for, it doesn't mean that all his observations are wrong. Most are, in my opinion.

Whilst I wouldn't vote for the BNP, I AM concerned about how insidious the loss of our heritage has become.

We are becoming a race of people who are not allowed to express our fears and concerns because we'll be labelled 'racist'. Yet those 'in control' appear happy for those rules to be broken by the the Muslim groups (in particular) that openly preach death and destruction to our people and our way of life.

We are told that the vast majority of Islamic adherents are peace-loving and want nothing more out of life than we do. But they are just that - a silent majority and apparently powerless to stop the radicals that are painting all Islam with a terrorist brush - unless of course, they tacitly approve of this invasion.

Because, in that particular area, I agree with the BNP view - does that make me a racist, bigot or whatever, or does it make me a realist?

Quite often, I'm not sure anymore. I must admit to being very worried about where this country is heading.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 04:27 PM

We haven't lost our heritage, which has assimilated Romans, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings, Normans. We've broadened it to accommodate east-europeans and non-europeans....

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Silas
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 04:31 PM

"Thats hardly the point Silas, Mr Griffin has every right to stand for election....even if he received only one vote."

What are you on? Have I suggested or even hinted that he was not? The British Nazi Party has as much right to suffer electoral humiliation as anyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 04:45 PM

Hmmm   Assimilating Romans and Vikings.....eh I dont think so

Wasn't it more a case of, "give us your crops and cattle, we'll even take your wives and daughters".....THEN, we'll slit your throats.

All those you mention, came as conquorers or pirates.
Assimilate or die!

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Silas
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 05:48 AM

"From: akenaton - PM
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 02:38 PM

I am not a member of the BNP, or even a supporter, but there is much hypocrisy in the Anti Griffin campaign.

I wont forget when Mr Griffin appeared on BBC Question Time and was referred to as a Fascist sympathiser by a certain Mr Straw.

Mr Griffin retorted that his father had served in the RAF fighting Fascism in WW2, while Mr Straw's father had spent the war in jail, as a conscientious objector.

While I admire pacifist ideology, Mr Straw's comments were ill advised in the extreme.
The response is in line for "most cutting of the decade"



Rubbish. What either of thire fathers did odid not do in WW2 has no relavence.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 08:05 AM

Just to put the record straight....Although I think of myself as a radical, I very much agree with Brian's post above.

Too many people allow their political label to influence their powers of reason.

This is very obvious in the Republican/Democrat War in the USA where folks are immediately defined by the way they vote.
People cast their votes for all sorts of reasons

Mostly its the "least worst" option.....Isn't that a shame, when we could be spending time and energy constructing something which we could believe in.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 08:20 AM

The thing about the Conservative, Labour, Monster Raving Looney Party, etc - they don't involve huge police presence.

We should be able to charge them (financially) for costing us so much.

Given the fact that so many English people were killed in a war against fascism - the BNP is a bit like if I formed a Lets Shit in Drinking water Party. It outrages people - its very presence does.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Silas
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 08:26 AM

Well, I don't. Far from it. Phrases like 'concerned for the loss of our heritage' are exactly the mealy-mouthed utterances of a closet racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 10:23 AM

Is his intention of standing to win a seat, or just to bring in thugs (sorry activists) during the campaign to stir up as much hatred and racial divide as possible?

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 10:27 AM

Akenaton. Nick Griffin's father wasn't fighting fascists in WW2. He worked in radar. Nothing wrong with that but, as David Dimbleby said when Griffin gave forth with this remark, "What's that got to do with it".

Griffin is a fascist whether his father fought in WW2 or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 10:32 AM

SPB. Griffin won't win, or even come close. But Oldham is one of the BNP strongholds and it has a high Muslim population. The present election will be a very good opportunity for the BNP to stir up inter-ethnic conflict. They will stir it because they know there are people in this world who are daft enough to support them and blame the Muslim population for the resulting violence.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Ringer
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 11:19 AM

"Phrases like 'concerned for the loss of our heritage' are exactly the mealy-mouthed utterances of a closet racist."

So how does one discuss our heritage and its possible loss without being labelled a closet racist by the fascist word-police?

Or is our heritage not a fit subject for discussion?

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Silas
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 11:24 AM

How can you possibly lose a heritage? What EXACTLY does it mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,alan whittle
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 11:26 AM

whoever is safeguarding our culture, I don't want the BNP doing it. Their record speaks for itself.

Some of the leaders have very dodgy backgrounds (possession of explosives )and one of their number did the gay pub bombing - isn't that so?

they're a bad lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 01:02 PM

"Loss of our heritage"

I don't know what it means to Nick Griffin, but I do know what it means to me.

When I was growing up in the 50s and 60s, I could pretty much say or write what I pleased and the worst I risked was a bollocking from a 'grown up'.

We had toys called gollywogs - much loved by kids . . .

Nursery rhymes such as Baa Baa Black Sheep were fun for kids . . .

We had stopcocks for turning off fluids in pipes . . .

We had manhole covers that allowed inspections of sub-surface utilities . . .

I could describe myself as a 'Brit' and someone from Pakistan as a 'Paki' . . .

We looked forward to Christmas, not XMas, or Season's Greetings . . .

Asylum seekers who had been convicted of crimes, then fatally injuring a little girl with their car and leaving her to die . . . would have been sent home - without considering HIS human rights . . .

People were not afraid to clear the snow outside their house (and perhaps even the neighbour's too) because if someone slipped, they'd say 'oops' . . .

We played and enjoyed silly things like rolling cheeses downhill, playing conkers and riding our bikes (with lights) . . .

Perhaps this is just an insight to what I mean when I say 'loss of our heritage'. There's plenty more over the last 60 years, but above is just a sample.

We didn't even know what politically correct meant, foreigners were even welcomed as they actually had FEWER rights than those of us who were born and grew up here.

We were a lot more PROUD to be British (before that became a joke amongst the manic do-gooders).

So, is Nick Griffin a fascist? Probably, but that doesn't make everything he says wrong.

I lament the changes I've seen in the last few years, we are losing our identity or more accurately, it's being stripped and given away by well meaning individuals and groups who won't address reality for what it is.

WE are being exploited. If you doubt it, have a good read of Wikileaks, listen to what the vocal 'british Moslems' are saying, count the mosques.

But you can dismiss me as another 'rabid fascist' or you can consider the levels of frustration that causes a response such as this. Do me a favour, go back and read it again, suspend disbelief and consider that me and mine (generation) might just have a point too.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 01:05 PM

I think Nanci Griffith should stand as well just to confuse 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 01:14 PM

My late wife was born in South Africa of British parents. We lived out there for a short time. Griffin reminds me of Ian Smith. Smith Was a nasty piece of work. He also used to go on about his service in the RAF. His Hurricane crashing, his Spitfire being shot down. Smith was a narrow-minded bigot who promoted division and hatred. Why do these people always bring up service history ?

The British National Party worship a regime and political philosophy that would enslave the British people. The BNP offer hope to no one. They are built on hate and full of poison, they are toxic.

They also call themselves a "Christian Party". Last year they held a secret meeting in Winsford Lifestyle Centre. They booked the hall under the name of the "Christian Council of Britain". Believe me, will not be allowed to do that again.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Silas
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 01:15 PM

So, it's foreigners' that are responsible for all this is it?

Seldom do I get the opportunity to read such mindless drivel - you should be ashamed of yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Silas
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 01:16 PM

My post was aimed at Brian

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 01:57 PM

`Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect`

So, he`ll be sober that day I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 02:17 PM

'aimed at Brian'

Why on earth would I be ashamed of myself. For not being happy about where this country is going?

Or for being so outrageous as to suggest that just because Nick Griffin is so reviled that everything he says is not wrong.

I think I have again encountered closed minds.

One day, perhaps, you'll wake up and realise just what is gone . . .

What I find surprising is just how spiteful, vehement and vicious people can be that are unwilling to even consider another viewpoint - that's a bit like the things they accuse Nick Griffin of.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 02:21 PM

Possibly what you do not know and maybe should: these people have fucked people over on Myspace, Youtube and Facebook. I now have two addresses of those who were involved. I expect we will meet at some time or other. I shall certainly try, anyway.

The B-N-P are asshole Nazis, and that`s the best that can be said of them.

As to your immigration laws, speak with your government.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 04:34 PM

I don't recall giving the BNP any support at all, - beyond saying not everything Nick Griffin says is wrong - it would be an almost inhuman ability for anyone living to be able to get it wrong ALL the time (mind you Dubya got close).

I really don't consider that to be support to 'asshole Nazis', quite the opposite actually, because I'm willing to discuss the topic rather than rely on trotting out the normal stereotypical rhetoric.

I don't support the attacks you've mentioned on ANYONE, irrespective of who they are. What's that actually got to do with the observations I made above - it's also NOT the immigration laws at all - it's about misguided souls lining up to give up our heritage to many people who are cynically here (UK) to take, take, take and regard our country with contempt. History will judge.

Anyway, there are none so blind as those who will not see, so I shall desist from further comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 04:41 PM

I meant no offense to you, Brian. I do understand in a way. But Asshole and his ilk are NOT the answer. I do not perceive you to be a supporter of theirs. You have an IQ over fifty and therefore couldn`t possibly see much good in them.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 05:30 PM

Whilst that's the mother of back-handed compliments, accepted and thank you.

I most certainly do NOT support bully-boy tactics of any flavour.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Smokey.
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 05:46 PM

"Losing our heritage" is something that could, and probably has, been claimed at any point in our history. The only constant thing we've ever had is change; it's a nonsensical claim.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 06:30 PM

You're correct of course, that never occurred to me, how could I be so shallow . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Smokey.
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 07:38 PM

My criticism is of the party's use of that notion as propaganda. We all know fings aint what they used to be, but they never were.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 07:58 PM

"foreigners were even welcomed as they actually had FEWER rights than those of us who were born and grew up here."

Would you like to restate that, and see if it still sounds like what it could imply as it's worded now?

"count the mosques"

How many mosques for each church at this point?

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 06:17 AM

I wouldn't blame 'loss of heritage' on any other ethic group. it is a case that the majority of "white British" are so apathetic about our own heritage and traditions, whereas other cultures embrace their heritage and customs.

In terms of major customs, e.g. Christmas, Easter, the have become so commercialised, and I would predict that more people are interested in what is on television in the evening, than looking at either the religious significance, or even the older secular traditions.

If anything, the biggest loss of heritage, in my opinion, was in the first half of the twentieth century, with many customs being revived post-war, and I would argue that our heritage is more alive now than it was 60 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 07:41 AM

Richie. The Christian Council of Britain is a B_N_P front. Among its leaders is the B_N_P_s tame "christian", "Rev." Robert West. The man is a fraud. He is no more a reverend than I am.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 08:35 AM

""Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May - PM
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 01:02 PM

"Loss of our heritage"

I don't know what it means to Nick Griffin, but I do know what it means to me.""

Do you really Brian.

Perhaps you would tell me to which heritage you refer?


The Pict, Scot, or Celt heritage?
The Jute heritage?
The Angle heritage?
The Dane heritage?
The Viking heritage?
The Saxon heritage?
The Roman heritage?
The Norman heritage?
The Dutch heritage?
The German heritage?

Forget about Akenaton's rather transparent red herring, because it doesn't matter how or why they arrived. What matters is that we assimilated them.

Our language is primarily composed of Latin and Greek derived words, with a smattering of all the other languages.

We don't speak French, so we must have assimilated the Normans into our culture, not vice versa, and even Dutch and German imported monarchs adapted to our culture.

Our whole history is one of adaptation and change, and we are arguably the stronger for it. The current situation is merely a step along that road. By espousing or even entertaining the views of bigots, you give credence to their disruptive ideals.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 09:12 AM

As I have stated several times many racial and religious minorities have absolutely no intention of being "assimilated"

In fact many are prepared to die to stop that "assimilation"

The 7/7 attacks may have been brought on by our foreign policy, but make no mistake they were a symptom of a clash of cultures, and we will see many more symptoms in the future, unless we are prepared to be assimilated into their way of thinking.

The vast majority of Muslims are devout...nor like us wishy washy Christians.....its no contest really!

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Silas
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 09:20 AM

Why should they be 'assimilated? There is nothing wrong with cultural diversity and never has been. We are a richer and better nation for it. There will be points where our cultures converge and there will also be areas where we diverge - that is life. We don't have to hate each other for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 09:42 AM

""The 7/7 attacks may have been brought on by our foreign policy, but make no mistake they were a symptom of a clash of cultures, and we will see many more symptoms in the future, unless we are prepared to be assimilated into their way of thinking.

The vast majority of Muslims are devout...nor like us wishy washy Christians.....its no contest really!""

That's what the Normans thought!!!

It's a question of numbers. As more second and third generation immigrant descendants marry English spouses, the division between "us" and "them" grows more indistinct.

In the time of Richard I, it was utterly unthinkable for an English person to marry a jew, whereas now, while the Jews still practise their religion, intermarriage is not only possible, it is commonplace.

Since when did we require anybody to give up the practise of their religion to fit in?

Don T.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 12:43 PM

So we just wait patiently for a couple of hundred years?

Get a fuckin' grip!

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 01:00 PM

Sorry pressed the wrong button.

This "liberal" ideology of "rights" and "equality" above all else is madness....Rights and equality are only words they never existed and never will exist especially now when we are going to be struggling to survive....will the pensioner in some sink estate who's heating bills are about to double and whose social services will be cut to the bone through the failure of a stinking greed inspired system have any rights or equality.....I dont fuckin' think so!

And you prats waffle on about the civil rights of religious fanatics who see us as weak dissolute scum; and the civil rights of sexual minorities who behaviour makes them the most unhealthy(and expensive) sections of society.

The important thing now is to recognise how we have been conned and robbed by our economic system ....and to remedy that state of affairs quickly before we are all enslaved in real terms, not just economic terms.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Smokey.
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 01:23 PM

The important thing now is to recognise how we have been conned and robbed by our economic system

Darn right it is, Ake, but few want to face up to the reality of that, it seems. It's easier to keep borrowing, and assuming that if everyone pretends it's real money, it'll turn into wealth.

I'm inclined to agree with you about rights and equality too; although laudable ideals, they don't actually exist yet.