BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 07:24 PM

And talking of xenophobes......Hello Ake!!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 07:21 PM

Change in meds, ake? It is impossible to set out to do something accidentally.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 07:13 PM

Same as you I suppose, Richard.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 05:50 PM

I wonder what Brian May means by "I don't set out to upset anybody (accidentally)".

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:59 AM

That of course should read "mainly opposed".

Damn keyboard's got a mind of its own.

DT

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:56 AM

""I'm beginning to get heartily sick of 'what is socially acceptable' because, in the extreme, we are getting legislation backing up a minority view of the world.""

Wrong mate!! What we are getting is legislation backing up the views of the majority as to how we should treat minorities, views moreover which are mainly popposed by a minority who happen to be xenophobes.

That is the fact which blows your comment about minority legislation to hell, since that minority is rightly ignored by legislators.

Well you did invite us to jump in, though we don't have to listen to your views either.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:48 AM

""In terms of language, in my view a word or phrase ceases to be socially acceptable when its common usage become a derogatory term to describe a particular section of the community,""

Which was precisely the point I was making in answer to Brian May's comment about the terms "Paki", "Brit", "Paddy" etc being acceptable.

Given that all have been widely used as pejorative descriptions of sections of society, they (and other similar terms) cannot be described as acceptable.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 07:56 AM

I'm beginning to get heartily sick of 'what is socially acceptable' because, in the extreme, we are getting legislation backing up a minority view of the world.

I don't set out to upset anybody (accidentally), but it would appear that small numbers of people, with their tiny-minded agendas don't really give a toss how many people they upset in their mini-crusades.

Appeasement didn't work in the late 30s and it isn't going to work now. Watch this space.

And, as for those intent on 'jumping on this statement', fill your boots- treat yourself, because I really don't give a damn about your tiny-minded attitudes. I'll only bother when you're in a position to force me to listen to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 03:21 AM

Don,

One of the problems with "Political Correctness" is that it can be used to blur the boundaries of what is socially acceptable.

In terms of language, in my view a word or phrase ceases to be socially acceptable when its common usage become a derogatory term to describe a particular section of the community, or is deemed to vulgar for mixed company, whereas PC is much more patronising where 'polite society' deem a word of phrase could be potentially offensive.

I think as a society we have grown up in that racism is no longer acceptable in humour - but it is interesting that as racism decreased, vulgarity increased.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 01:57 PM

I mentioned in an earlier posting that Ecalibur, the BNP's odious merchandising outlet, was located uncomfortably close to where I live. Well, it was within 20 miles of me anyway and, brother at that distance, the stench of racism it emits can be pretty nauseating.

I must confess the smell hasn't been too bad lately, for it seems they've moved. At any rate snailmail orders now have to be sent to a PO box No with the postcode CV11 9FP.

That's not surprising, following the downsizing, mass expulsions, near bankruptcy and general total utter chaos which characterises the BNP's attempts to present itself as the party of the master race. They probably need somewhere smaller and cheaper to house the few remaining bits of right wing tat which they still carry.

The odd thing is that when I searched for CV11 9FP in Google Maps, I was presented with a very nice view of a ploughed field, with not a single building in sight for several hundred yards.

Such obscurantism would make a modicum of common sense, given that the BNP are rather adept at obscuring their tracks on every possible occasion.

But how does it work, I wonder? Does the postman leave the mail under a specially designated clod of earth, half way up the first furrow? Does he perchance follow the talking white rabbit into the hole, there to present the mail to the queen, who shouts "orf wiv 'is 'ead" before the postman makes a welcome escape to the normality of the real world?

Could it even be that we have encountered the mad march hare, the fabulous talking griffin, the Berlin bunker, the royal tea party and the jar of Marmite rolled into one?

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 06:44 AM

Don, I heartily agree. PC can get out of hand on occasion, access chambers and all that. But if using the "n" word offends people the simple answer is not to use it.

Somewhat off topic, here's an amusing example of far right dishonesty. Coach travelling from Gateshead to Preston for recent EDL demo gets slight shunt from rear. Driver says he would be amazed if anybody had been hurt in the incident, adding 'There was not much more than a scratch on the back corner.'

The coach had 25 EDL supporters on board and the total seating capacity is 57. Guess how many EDL supporters are now claiming for whiplash injuries as a result of this minor shunt? 78.

Yup. 78 upstanding solid citizens who think themselves fit to tell hard working honest Muslims that they're not wanted in this country.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 08:29 AM

Save when necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 08:17 AM

""And yes, the EDL represents its own threat to all of us who wish to live in a free and democratic society, one which is devoid of ethnic bigotry, concentration camps, and all the other paraphenalia of fascism. But we were talking about the BNP after all.""

As I see it, the EDL appear to be a plausibly deniable offshoot of the BNP, allowing for that organisation to promote the breaking of heads, while giving the appearance of a respectable political movement.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

""So what's wrong with :

A Brit, a Paddy and a Paki walk into the bar?

Nothing in my book, when I was a kid it was OK, now it seems it isn't (someone needs to get a life, and it isn't me . . .)""

I'm surprised that anybody with your intelligence and experience cannot understand the difference between those words used as abbreviations (which was exactly the use in the 1950s), and the same words hurled, with obvious hatred, as pejorative epithets.

As the latter is the use to which they have been put over more than thirty years, nobody should be surprised that they are considered inappropriate for use in polite society.

I'm as sick as the next man of unnecessary political correctness, but, if the language we use offends the recipient, then that language is per se offensive, and I was brought up to believe that a gentleman is one who takes care not to give offence..............to anyone!!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 11:44 AM

Along with Frogs, Yanks, Krauts etc it was OK.

In the 50s we had other things to worry about . . . including global cooling (my, how the wheel turns).

Still, it's reassuring to know there's no sign of political correctness in my day to day life.

Have a great Christmas all out there . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 11:28 AM

well its not all right now, it probably wasn't when you were a kid.

I reckon all that headbanging at the end of Bohemian Rhapsody is starting to take its toll.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 09:52 AM

So what's wrong with :

A Brit, a Paddy and a Paki walk into the bar?

Nothing in my book, when I was a kid it was OK, now it seems it isn't (someone needs to get a life, and it isn't me . . .)

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 08:33 AM

An Englishman, an Irishman and a Pakistani walk into a bar.

What a wonderful example of a multi-cultural community.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 12:24 PM

Don,

I thought the rest of my post indicated that the demise of the BNP would be no cause at all for celebration or complacency. Fascism is a rag bag product of specific social and economic conditions, far more than it is the product of tactics or strategies or ideologies. If and when those social and economic conditions re-emerge then fascism will reassert itself on a mass scale, with no pretence of constitutionality.

Will the EDL be part of that reassertion? Well, the EDL is a single issue virtual organisation. IE., it was brought into existence to oppose the spread of so called Islamist extremism, although EDL supporters are also known for attacking anti-fascist and socialist meetings, as well as denouncing British Airways strikers and attacking Swansea Trades Council's May Day march. Most worryingly of all, it has now aligned itself with the establishment over university education cuts and increased tuition fees, threatening violence against student protesters.

In other words, while I don't think the EDL will re-invent itself as a fully fledged fascist organisation, it is clearly starting to emerge as the British 21st century equivalent of those "groups of men in brown shirts", the para-military face of fascism which the BNP has traditionally shunned, and which will be extremely useful to a nascent fascist demagogue.

Thus, if we allow them breathing space, the EDL will eventually be sucked into some future fascist movement, just like the ashes of the BNP.

Overall then, whilst I look forwarding to dancing on the BNP's grave in hob nailed boots, the demise of the BNP will not mean the demise of fascism, any more than the death of Margaret Thatcher will herald the demise of capitalism.

And yes, the EDL represents its own threat to all of us who wish to live in a free and democratic society, one which is devoid of ethnic bigotry, concentration camps, and all the other paraphenalia of fascism. But we were talking about the BNP after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 10:27 AM

""Plus, I think the BNP has gone too far down the road of constitutionality and ostensible respectability, for them to reinvent themselves as the kind of street fighting semi-terrorist mob that is classical fascism, and which succeeds where constitutionalism doesn't.""

I worry about that level of complacency when I see what appears to me to be the scum scraped off the BNP image in the name of vote gathering respectability, reappearing on the streets as the English Defence League.

Do you really think those 4000 vanished members just gave up?

I'm reminded of groups of men in brown shirts who did all the dirty work required by a Nazi Party gathering votes for an election.

"Plausible deniability"!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Silas
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 06:29 AM

Apologies Fred - the combination of my poor eyesight, my dysexia and a crap keyboard make these things happen all too often.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 05:31 AM

Silas. It's Fred, not Frank.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 05:26 PM

"Unfortunately, this harmless doll was adopted by the BNP as a symbol of negritude, of racial inferiority if you like."

Hi Frank
I was not aware of that, but now that you have enlightened me, I think it even more important that the scum are not allowed to appropriate this perfectly harmless childs toy and turn it into a symbol. It's time we reclaimed the Goly (and the flag) from these bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 05:19 PM

Ringer, among all the self serving crap on this thread, your post at least deserves a response.

You are quite correct in saying that capitalism provided prosperity, two hundred, one hundred, fifty, thirty years ago.
For most of that time we had an Empire to rob, a workforce for whom prosperity was only a dream, a population which dutifully died in Capitalism's wars.
The people in my section of society have never lived like kings, my life and the lives of my neighbours have been a constant struggle.
When my children were small I worked over 70 hrs a week plus a few nights till eleven o' clock.....not some desk job, but back breaking toil....laying 18"x 9"x9" concrete blocks, or mixing and screeding 100 sq yds of concrete.....Kings....you obviously haven't a clue.

Like many of my brothers and sisters, I sold my strength and life to bring up my family.
And that was in the good times for Capitalism, but the times they are a changin'
Our Empire has gone, we pay top dollar for everything we need from the East. We are uncompetitive in manufacturing and heavy industry.
Our new "liberal" ideology wants it all, without hard work or personal responsibility.
Capitalism has chewed us up and spat out the bones, just as it will do with all the nations and peoples waiting for the curse of development.

I can assure you that Capitalism has no sister, and liberal democracy is a mirage.....surely the political events of the last five years prove that conclusively.

Capitalism has no sister, but she has a child. Made in her own image, but without the old disguises....the faux democracy, the phoney liberalism.....the child is coming of age, and who do you think will give Fascism the biggest welcome into society....not the radicals from left or right,(they will be the first into the ovens), but the evolutionary, equality loving, centre left.

They say history always repeats itself!....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 01:26 PM

Still here Silas. . . I actually AGREE with you about gollywogs, my sisters loved theirs to bits. There was no trace of irony in them, they were kids and loved them.

Interesting little conundrum for the PC brigade. . .

In Doncaster, the nursery rhyme Baa Baa Black Sheep is no longer acceptable and it's been replaced with Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep.

I was up on the North York Moors not too long ago and there was a field full of . . . yes, black sheep. How on earth do you explain that level of stupidity to children?

Also the 'brainstorm' verb is non-PC as being too aggressive, now it's 'thought showers'. Does anyone truly believe that this kind of reaction to perceived racism (usually NOT from the ethnic minorities) does any good?

I've a good friend who is of Afro-Caribbean ethnicity (apparently) - she just says 'I'm black and quite happy about that'. Very refreshing realism.

OK, waiting for the next lot of stereo-typical rhetoric . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Silas
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 12:52 PM

Hi Al
The 'problem' here is the name, isn't it? These things are just childs dolls. If you are saying that there should not be black ones as well as white ones, then that may be racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 12:33 PM

Strangely enough. I had something in that line happen to me.

Before we moved last year, my wife used to be on the committee of a self help group for people with arthritis. (the illness not the mudcatter).

Anyway there was this little old lady in the group who used knit little woollen dolls as a hobby for club funds. The were lovely things all hand knitted and of course, amongst her repertoire was the golliwog.

Well we had several coloured members. so the committee were wondering what to do. You could ask everybody individually if they were offended - but in a way that would be pressurising them, and anyway you do that and you could get a new member that did take exception. And the old lady in question was a very nice old lady - so what to do...

I remember we had one committee member who was up for a fight and wanted Denise (my wife) to register disgust and annoyance that we harboured such a racist beast in our midst. he wasn't keen to do it himself, but we kept getting phone calls that this was our duty.

Finally Denise broached the subject with old lady and she said okay, I'll just put another head on them. I think when nice old ladies in their 80's can get the situation, most other folk should be able to.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 12:27 PM

Silas. Sorry, I wasn't implying that you were. The problem lies with the meanings which can be placed on these things. Many people regard the gollywog as a harmless toy, and I wish that we as a species were so devoid of racism that it could not possibly have any other connotation.

Unfortunately, this harmless doll was adopted by the BNP as a symbol of negritude, of racial inferiority if you like. At their summer camp at Codnor last year, a group of BNP members decided to hold a mock trial and lynching. I can't remember what the accused was accused of, probably of being here and being black. But what did they use to symbolise the "ethnically inferior" invaders? A gollywog, that's what.

Like I said, it's all down to signs and symbols and interpretations. Curiously enough, they named the accused doll Winston. But that was a hangover from the days when Winston Churchill was seen by the BNP as an arch traitor, who led us into a so called "totally unneccesary war", instead of siding with Hitler against the Slavic hordes.

Shortly afterwards, the leadership of the BNP realised there was mileage to be had in invoking WW2, and the Dunkirk spirit and the white cliffs of Dover and all that. Overnight, their portrayal of Churchill turned 180 degrees. Suddenly he symbolised the British people standing up against foreign invasion and standing for all things British.

The BNP are not just a bunch of sick fascists. They are also a bunch of liars and hypocrites and opportunists.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Silas
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 11:17 AM

Err, Fred, I wish in no way to be associated wth the British Nazi Party as if you read my previous post, will be perfectly obvious.
However, the 'Golly' or 'Gollywog' was a perfectly innocent childs toy - it is nothing more that a black rag doll. The naming of it has caused afew 'problems' but the thing itself cannot by any standard be called a racist little doll.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 11:15 AM

where., is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 11:08 AM

Al, you are absolutely correct. However, Griffin and the rest of the BNP leadership are too thick to run a whelk stall, let alone conduct a serious fascist takeover. Plus, I think the BNP has gone too far down the road of constitutionality and ostensible respectability, for them to reinvent themselves as the kind of street fighting semi-terrorist mob that is classical fascism, and which succeeds where constitutionalism doesn't.

In short, for fascism to stand anything more than a snowball in hell's chance of getting anywhere, it would need a new leader and a new and even nastier organisation than the one we confront at present.

The problem is that when the conditions you mentioned are in place, a demagogue will emerge to take advantage of them; someone who has brains and charisma, and an ability to connect with and lead the millions of disaffected. Griffin may be a nasty piece of work, but he falls well short of those requirements.

If the BNP is crushed well before said conditions and demagogue emerge, it won't represent an infrastructure that he can build from. That will give us just a little bit of a breathing space.

Silas, I'm afraid you're a bit late to buy from the extensive range of gollywogs, or gollys as the BNP rechristened them to avoid clashes with the law, from the BNP's Excalibur website. They started stocking them after Carol Thatcher (I think it was her)caused a furore by referring to someone as a gollywog, but have now reduced their selection to a poor and pathetic sampling. You can however still buy an "English by the grace of God" mug from them. If you don't like that, they have various books on sale retailing crackpot theories about race, evolution, DNA and how wonderful it is to be European. And there's "Enoch was Right" badges, a CD of songs written by Nick Griffin, plus a whole stack of highly offensive T shits. What a swinging place the Excalibur warehouse must be. What a personal embarressment that it's less than 20 miles away from where I live.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Silas
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 10:23 AM

NeilDI assume you are refering to 'Golliwogs'?
Well, they are not 'racist' little dolls, they are simply black rag dolls (though usually knitted) and were (and are) as much loved by kids as the 'Jemima' white ones. The name is slightly unfortunate, though they were mostly reffered to a 'Gollys'. It is only relatively recently that Robertsons have stopped using theon their jams. This is where the PC brigade get their knickers in a twist.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 10:18 AM

If your "heritage" consists of playing with racist little dolls, then it's better off lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 09:54 AM

Well lets hope you're right Fred. I wish I could share your optimism.

This latest round of ecomonic difficulties have only just begun to bite. What is worrying is the cluelessness of the main parties. Perhaps they aren't clueless, but they don't have a spring in their step any more. have you seen the figures for this months borrowing requirement - nearly a quarter as much again as Labour in the same period - and that was thought to be a disaster last year.

If someone doesn't start working the magic soon, within a couple of years you'll have the classic economic and political condtions for fascism to take hold.

these guys don't need an ideology - just knuckle dusters for idle hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 08:37 AM

Al,The BNP is not gaining ground. In fact it is losing it. Witness their decline in membership. 14,000 3 years ago. Less than 10,000 now. Witnesss the stack of lost deposits in the last general election, plus the trouncing they got in Barking and Dagenham, plus the endless rounds of in-fighting, expulsions etc. And witness the total mess of their party finances.

The point is for anyone who hates fascism to make sure they continue unabated on their merry way into oblivion.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Silas
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 07:36 AM

"First thing is ....open eyes, engage brain, clear out all the divisive party political rubbish."

Then go and vote for your local nazi?

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Ringer
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 07:26 AM

"As a country and as a society we have been comprehensively fucked by Capitalism..."

What nonsense. Capitalism has given us prosperity the like of which the world has never before seen; the poorest of us live better than kings would have done half a millenium ago. Sure, it's taken a step backwards in the last 3 years or so, but it will recover and deliver even greater prosperity.

There are no alternatives to capitalism and its sister, liberal democracy. A few have been tried; where are they now?

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 06:45 AM

Would you like me to come and dicht yer erse fur ye? ';0)

First thing is ....open eyes, engage brain, clear out all the divisive party political rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Silas
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 06:12 AM

OK akenaton, let's hear about these alternatives then...

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 06:09 AM

You have in fact hit the nail right on the head Al.

The mainstream politicians have been exposed as frauds....I dont think they ever did "believe"

And the results of "democratic liberalism" are there for all to see.

You are also correct in your assessment of the popularity of people who really believe in what they preach....be it on the left or on the right, it matters nothing.
As a country and as a society we have been comprehensively fucked by Capitalism.....but dont blame the messanger, we need to start seriously looking at alternatives.

Stick with the old parties and your heritage is the old discredited system......we are about to see it without the "sheeps clothing" of "democracy"

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Smokey.
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 09:05 PM

Al, your link appears to discuss the song but not contain a way to play it.

Switch your Javascript on, RB.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 08:59 PM

Its very strange this phenomenon of right wing parties in England. i get the impression (whatever their financial staus) the BNP are gaining ground.

I can't remember a time when the main political parties were led by such characterless people. I wouldn't like to guess what any of them believed in.

I think this vacuum is what makes the present situation so dangerous. the BNP doesn't really need an ideology - just a dislike of what democracy has brought.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 07:11 PM

Al, your link appears to discuss the song but not contain a way to play it.

While I like to play folk (1954) I also do contemporary political songs and at a very middle class event in Ash Canterbury earlier this year was complimented (I think) after a couple of songs that no-one could mistake my political perspective. I had however started with trad.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 01:33 PM

Sorry to send everyone round in six different circles at once, with my original posting on this topic. However, the latest news from Oldham is that Griffin won't be standing after all. Instead the seat will be contested by a local fascist name of Derek Adams.

The best information available suggests that Griffin has pulled out after being informed by other luminaries that the party's finances are in no fit state to withstand a major campaign.

In other words, it looks as though we can all rest festive and merry. May their downward decline continue unabated.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Smokey.
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 01:40 AM

There'll always be clueless punters, Alan..

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 09:22 PM

I dunno. Although I'm sure the woman was older than me, it made me feel like museum piece, i can tell you.

I could have argued she had misunderstood the song. but I'm not used to having to defend my right to sing what i want.

This stuff about civil rights for minorities don't matter. It sort of shakes you up when its the side you've aligned yourself with, coming out with it.

I've got to admit I suddenly feel - well where the hell is there to go with music that's not about merry ploughboys. And the fact is theres nowhere.Absolutely nowhere on the middle class map. So its back to the pub lounges, where at least you have the feedom of nobody really listening.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 08:26 PM

Got the audio now (javascript..) - excellent stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 05:39 PM

The words to the second song don't seem to be there, Alan, but I like the other one.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 05:05 PM

Leaving? Again? Really?

It's worth popping back Silas . . . if only just to annoy you! ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:48 PM

However I am persona no grata with the left wing song gang, I did a spot at this years Tolpuddle Martyrs Festival and this woman said one of my songs trivialised violence to women. I should be grateful she'd come to me to complain about my songs rather than the organiser of the event, and I was never to sing it again.

The offending song:-

http://www.bigalwhittle.co.uk/id22.html

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:43 PM

I wrote a song one time about the BNP standing outside the school playground trying to recruit kids.

http://www.bigalwhittle.co.uk/id35.html