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The Sea in Song, radio documentary

Liam's Brother 29 Dec 10 - 04:22 PM
ChrisJBrady 30 Dec 10 - 10:05 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Dec 10 - 12:19 PM
ChrisJBrady 30 Dec 10 - 01:20 PM
ChrisJBrady 31 Dec 10 - 08:29 AM
GUEST,John Moulden 31 Dec 10 - 12:15 PM
The Sandman 31 Dec 10 - 12:33 PM
The Sandman 31 Dec 10 - 12:49 PM
The Sandman 31 Dec 10 - 01:30 PM
GUEST,John Moulden 31 Dec 10 - 01:38 PM
The Sandman 01 Jan 11 - 08:42 AM
Richard Mellish 01 Jan 11 - 09:32 AM
EBarnacle 01 Jan 11 - 09:49 AM
Liam's Brother 10 Jan 11 - 06:58 PM
Gibb Sahib 11 Jan 11 - 01:24 AM
stallion 11 Jan 11 - 03:43 AM
The Sandman 12 Jan 11 - 02:51 PM
The Sandman 14 Jan 11 - 06:06 PM
GUEST,Irish Guest 15 Jan 11 - 06:16 AM
Richard Mellish 17 Feb 11 - 06:09 PM
GUEST,Richard I 18 Feb 11 - 09:50 AM
GUEST 23 Jun 11 - 01:47 PM
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Subject: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 04:22 PM

RTE Lyric FM radio, available via the internet at http://www.rte.ie/lyricfm/ broadcast the first of three programs on Irish maritime songs today. Parts 2 and 3 will be broadcast on Thursday and Friday, December 30 and 31, at 1800 GMT - 1 PM EST in the USA.

Listening to the program is easy. There's a "Listen Live" box in the top right, and the documentary will play on both Windows Media Player and Real Audio.

Here's the information from their website:

THE SEA IN SONG

A 3-part series celebrating Ireland's maritime song tradition. Historians may have neglected our maritime heritage, but our singers have not and a good song can give us a feel for life at sea better than any text book can. Discover a song chest of rousing sea shanties, ballads of hardship and heroism as well as heart rending tales of love, loss, betrayal and revenge.

Programme 1: Hard Men to Shave (29th December 2010) Programme one explores key narratives in the sea shanties and ballads of the 19th century and taps into some hair-raising accounts of life at sea for Ireland's ocean mariners in the age of sail powered ships.

Programme 2: The Tumbling Wave (30th December 2010) Programme two sifts through the huge collection of Irish coastal songs to retrieve vivid tales of shipwrecks, smugglers, drownings and heroic rescues.

Programme 3: Love is Tempestuous (31st December 2010) Some of our most powerful laments and romantic ballads were inspired by events at sea. The concluding programme in the series pursues themes of love and loss through motifs such as the maid on the shore, the female sailor and the mermaid in traditional maritime song.

The series is produced and presented by Mary Owens. An independent production for RTÉ lyric fm by Well Said Productions and made with the support of the Sound & Vision Broadcasting Funding Scheme, a Broadcasting Authority of Ireland initiative.

I understand the program will be archived.

Dan Milner


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 30 Dec 10 - 10:05 AM

This sounds great. That you for the alert. Did you or anyone record Weds prog.? And is anyone capturing this series?


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 10 - 12:19 PM

Me
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 30 Dec 10 - 01:20 PM

Can you email me a copy (copies) please, or put them onto Mediafire / Rapidshare / etc. I am trying to record part 2 right now using Audacity (and Stereo Mix) but the stream keeps cutting out!! I think the Sea Shanty folks in NZ might also like to hear the programmes. Many thanks.


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 08:29 AM

Strange songs - the Irish concept of shanties (and sea songs) as presented in these programmes. The style is long lilting unaccompanied singing with very little rhythm most likely to be heard in a 'sean nos' song session at a parlour gathering rather than on board a working tall ship.

Other songs presented would be at home on the performance stage with very accomplished mandolin playing, but again not the sort of sounds that might have been heard on a sailing ship in the 1800/1900s, even at leisure on the foredeck.

It is very apparent that the producers have not done any research into traditional sea songs or sea shanties whatsoever - and obviously have not referenced anything on the shanty thread on Mudcat.

The commensurate comparison in England would be like the BBC presenting highly arranged settings of old English folk songs by Ralph Vaughn Williams v.v. the gutsy singing at any shanty festival.


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 12:15 PM

CJB, I suggest that, when you are able to obtain recordings of the programmes, you listen to them. The points you make are fully answered. The programme maker, Mary Owens, consulted Sean Corcoran, Lillis Ó Laoire and many others, including me, in the course of the compilation and between us we know, not only about Irish songs, but about songs, maritime or otherwise, from across the English speaking world. This is not to assert total accuracy or balance. However, I can discern no kind of strangeness in what has been presented and , in Ireland, what other kind of singing style would you expect.


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 12:33 PM

but with respect John ,you wouldnt would you[TO QUTE MANDY RICE DAVIES]after all you were consulted about it.
John, I would expect shanties to be sung as if they were work songs.
SAILORS worked on ships,DIFFERENT SHANTIES used different rhythms to suit particular jobs if we wish to be authentic that is how they should be sung nationality is irrelevant, being IRISH has nothing to do with it, or are you suggesting that the irish worked extremely slowly and mournfully even when at the halyards


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 12:49 PM

why not consult some Irish shanty groups or sea singers, such as Dick Miles or Hooks and Crookes, or someone like Chris Roche.


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 01:30 PM

I am listening to programme 3 right now, I have just heard Bonnie Milner singing The Dark Eyed Sailor.
The Apprentice Boy is pleasant sounding,but seems to concentrate[imo] too much on producing interesting musical variations rather than interpretation of the words, in stark contrast to the traditional unaccompanied female singer who follows, who interprets her song very well and then Joe Heaney who sings with great subtlety.
Willie Taylor has lovely harmonies,and is very good music but the story would have been interpreted better by a good solo singer,again part of the problem of harmony groups as against unaccompanied solo singers, the producer might have done better to have had the group sing a shanty[even though shanties were not often sung in harmony]
However This particular programme is interesting and has a varied approach, using unaccompanied traditional singers plus revival harmony singers, and very competent musicians, and despite my criticisms, I did enjoy the programme, and would like to thank all who were concerned in producing this programme.
I am now going to try and listen again to the others, thanks very much.


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 01:38 PM

Of course I would say so, wouldn't I. But the point is that, apart from a very few in Sam Henry, the Irish collections contain, almost no shanties. This is partly because the collectors weren't interested in them but in songs in Irish and didn't get them. When Tom Munnelly and Sean Corcoran went looking, in the sixties and seventies, either the singers were reluctant on account of bawdry or because they were inappropriate on shore, and they too got few. The songs being used in these programmes are forebitters or land-based sea songs. As Stan Hugill said, there is no doubt that Irish shanty men were prized, hence their contribution is prominent in the collections from Terry, Whall and others to Hugill and later but not in Irish collections. The first programme said this.


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 08:42 AM

Another approach that may have been interesting could have been to actually interview Sailors, or Fishermen and intersperse their narrative with songs, or was that done in the first two programmes?.


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 09:32 AM

I've just been blundering around the RTE website to see whether these programmes can be listened to after being broadcast. As far as I can see, some programmes are made available afterwards but these three are not. If anyone knows better, please point us to the relevant URL.

Richard


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: EBarnacle
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 09:49 AM

Thanks, Dan.


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 06:58 PM

The three-part RTE Lyric FM radio programme about the Irish maritime heritage in song, 'The Sea in Song', has now been archived. The link is http://www.rte.ie/lyricfm/features


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 01:24 AM

Thanks for the link! Listened to the first programme. Dan Milner is well-spoken in it.

Re: the structure of it, the focus on "Irish" stuff, while completely understandable, makes for dubious history telling. It's like if I organized the food in my fridge alphabetically.


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: stallion
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 03:43 AM

Why should I have four pen'orth when I haven't listened? Well it is a comment on culture and perception of it. We are often asked to sing "Irish" songs which by and large we steer away from (one session nearly ended in fistycuffs over it)because we are english and there is a large body of stuff available to us. Actually what people are really asking for is the voice with a lilt. Dick is right about shanties in the sense that if you boil it down to what it is about it's a tool for completing a task and content and style were insignificant to the rhythm. We have been asked to sing at a wedding and one question was "can you do some irish - like Daniel O'Donnel ...." . I have a stock reply by singing a few bars of an English song with a lilt (not accent!) (probably more Scottish than irish!) "yea that sort of stuff" This is not uncommon and suggests that peoples perception of Irish music is more Mary Black and Daniel O'Donnel than Pogues and Dubliners or a bunch of scruffy blokes chanting shanties. So if a title of a prog suggesting Irish sea songs the mass of the unwashed will tune in to listen to "Daniel O'Donnel" and the sea theme would be interesting but not as important as the genre.
It is also interesting that this is of course an imagined culture. A recent TV item about how Indians view the British Indian Culture, was quite illuminating, much the same as how Brits view New Zealand, as a parochial 1950's backwater (endearingly and sometimes envious, and a longing for the good old days back)


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 02:51 PM

thanks dan ,well done


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 06:06 PM

I have now listened to all 3 programmes and have enjoyed them very much.
lovely version of the holy ground, by Jimmy Crowley.


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: GUEST,Irish Guest
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 06:16 AM

Stallion, Surely you are not trying to place Mary Black and Daniel Ó Donnell in the same catagory of Irish music ?


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 06:09 PM

Just came back here, read the posting from Liam's Brother 10 Jan 11 - 06:58 PM, and tried the link. The word "sea" is nowhere on that page. I would still like a chance to hear these programmes, which ought to be possible if they have indeed been archived. The question is where.

Richard


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: GUEST,Richard I
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:50 AM

I think that the series is archived here:
http://www.rte.ie/lyricfm/features/1411509.html


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Subject: RE: The Sea in Song, radio documentary
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 11 - 01:47 PM

    Poster appears to be Dan Milner (brother of Liam), who needs to reset his cookie.

Good news!

As it happens, RTE was named "Broadcaster of the Year" at the International Radio Awards on Monday, June 20 and The Sea in Song received top honors in the history documentary category.

In case you want to listen or pass the link to friends, the 3 programs are still archived at http://www.rte.ie/lyricfm/features/1411509.html


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