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Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition

katlaughing 02 Sep 99 - 11:30 PM
Joe Offer 03 Sep 99 - 02:57 AM
katlaughing 03 Sep 99 - 03:14 AM
Sourdough 03 Sep 99 - 03:15 AM
Sourdough 03 Sep 99 - 03:19 AM
katlaughing 03 Sep 99 - 03:21 AM
katlaughing 03 Sep 99 - 03:25 AM
Joe Offer 03 Sep 99 - 03:48 AM
katlaughing 03 Sep 99 - 03:57 AM
Joe Offer 03 Sep 99 - 04:12 AM
katlaughing 03 Sep 99 - 04:30 AM
Joe Offer 03 Sep 99 - 04:39 AM
GUEST 04 Mar 00 - 11:03 AM
Ely 04 Mar 00 - 05:48 PM
Sandy Paton 04 Mar 00 - 06:08 PM
Amos 05 Mar 00 - 12:48 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 07 Jan 02 - 09:43 PM
Sandy Paton 08 Jan 02 - 03:40 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 08 Jan 02 - 06:56 AM
GUEST,hrothgar 08 Jan 02 - 06:56 AM
Art Thieme 08 Jan 02 - 07:05 AM
GUEST 08 Jan 02 - 09:54 AM
GUEST,Desdemona 08 Jan 02 - 10:25 AM
Art Thieme 08 Jan 02 - 11:01 AM
Amos 08 Jan 02 - 11:28 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 08 Jan 02 - 08:02 PM
Louie Roy 09 Jan 02 - 02:47 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 09 Jan 02 - 09:47 PM
CRANKY YANKEE 10 Jan 02 - 12:59 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 10 Jan 02 - 09:03 AM
Kim C 10 Jan 02 - 10:49 AM
Genie 12 Jan 02 - 01:39 AM
GUEST,frankie 12 Jan 02 - 07:01 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 12 Jan 02 - 02:14 PM
raredance 12 Jan 02 - 08:56 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 12 Jan 02 - 10:46 PM
GUEST,frankie 13 Jan 02 - 07:20 AM
masato sakurai 28 Jan 02 - 04:45 AM
Midchuck 28 Jan 02 - 03:06 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 28 Jan 02 - 03:19 PM
Acme 28 Jan 02 - 04:33 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 28 Jan 02 - 05:40 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 28 Jan 02 - 05:50 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 12 Mar 02 - 07:44 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 12 Mar 02 - 08:09 PM
Bill D 12 Mar 02 - 10:53 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 12 Mar 02 - 11:45 PM
GUEST,Q 14 Mar 03 - 10:19 PM
Uncle_DaveO 14 Mar 03 - 10:42 PM
mouldy 15 Mar 03 - 03:40 AM
GUEST,Q 23 Apr 03 - 05:00 PM
Lane 23 Apr 03 - 09:17 PM
GUEST,Q 23 Apr 03 - 10:27 PM
Lane 25 Apr 03 - 12:27 AM
GUEST,Q 18 May 03 - 04:45 PM
Gene 18 May 03 - 11:54 PM
GUEST,Q 19 May 03 - 12:57 PM
Gene 19 May 03 - 06:39 PM
Ron Davies 18 May 09 - 09:06 PM
Mark Ross 18 May 09 - 11:03 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 May 09 - 11:54 PM
kendall 19 May 09 - 06:54 AM
olddude 19 May 09 - 07:06 AM
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Subject: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 11:30 PM

Another long one taking forever to load, back there, so...here we are.

Thanks to Bert, for calling my granddad's poem, Home Range, a song on last night broadcast of Mudcat Radio. My dad will be pleased and granddad would've been happy to've had it noticed.

I've a tape of dad reading granddad's cowboy poems. After listening last night, I think I will send a copy to Max; if he likes them maybe he'll play one or two. When dad gets his next cowboy songs tape done, I'll send it along, too.

Grab leather, boyz!

katlaughing


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Subject: Lomax - Cowboy Songs, 1910
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 02:57 AM

I just got a copy of Cowboy Songs, by John A. Lomax. The book was published in 1910, but I got the 1916 edition. It's a great collection of songs - but it has lyrics only for most of the songs. I understand that the book was reissued in the 1930's with tunes to most of the songs.
The book begins with a handritten letter from Theodore Roosevelt, dated August 28, 1910:
Dear Mr. Lomax,
You have done a work emphatically worth doing and one which should appeal to the people of all our country, but particularly to the poeple of the west and southwest. Your subject is not only exceedingly interesting to the student of literature, but also to the student of the general history of the west. There is something very curious in the reproduction here on this new continent of essentially the conditions of ballad-growth which obtained in medieval England; including, by the way, sympathy for the outlaw, Jesse James, taking the place of Robin Hood. Under modern conditions, however, the native ballad is speedily killed by competition with the music hall songs; the cowboys becoming ashamed to sing the crude homespun ballads in view of what (Owen Winter???) calls the "ill-smelling saloon cleverness" of the far less interesting compositions of the music hall singers. It is threfore a work of real importance to preserve permanently this unwritten ballad literature of the back country and the frontier.
With all good wishes, I am
very truly yours,
Theodore Roosevelt
(I had to guess at some of the words - Teddy's penmanship was a little sloppy)
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 03:14 AM

Hi, Joe, looking in my 1986 reissue of the same, I am sure it was "Owen Wister" he refered to, author of the Virginian.

kat


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Sourdough
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 03:15 AM

Joe,

TR was referring to Owen Wister, author of "The Virginian".

Sourdough


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Sourdough
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 03:19 AM

Have you noticed how the name "Owen Wister" keeps coming up these days?

Sourdough


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 03:21 AM

Na, na, na,na, na! Beatcha by a minute, SD!*BG*


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 03:25 AM

Ha that's what I get for gloating.....forgot to mention WW and I both, since we live in the same town, are just a few minutes from where the original Goose Egg ranch was, made famous in the Virginian. That area sw of town is still refered to as the Goose Egg there is a restaurant of the same name which has been out there for upteen years.

A couple of times, when I was really little, mom and dad played for dances at the Roundup Club, also west of town. I remember falling asleep on the benches and dreaming about how all the babies were switched by the cowboys in that novel. I always had a bit of an uneasy feeling at that when I slept during the late night dances.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 03:48 AM

Kat - the 1986 edition you have - does it have tunes for most songs? Who's the publisher? How many pages? My book, published by Sturgis & Walton in 1916, has 414 rather small pages, and I understand the later editions have 431. Amazon has one listed with 326 pages, for $75 (but not currently available).
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 03:57 AM

It's the same book, Joe, with a new intro by Alan Lomax. All copyrighted from 1910 to 1986 by Macmillan Pub. It has a lot of the tunes; with the index it is 431 pages, without it 428 and they start on the official page 3 (after the intro etc.). The ISBN # is 0-02-061260-5.

Let me know if you need anymore info or can't get it. Are you looking for any specific tune right now?


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 04:12 AM

OK, Kat, here's an example: there's a tune for "The Cowboy," pp. 96-99, but no tune again until "Fuller and Warren" comes on page 126. The songs in between without tunes are:
Bill Peters, the Stage Driver
Hard Times (and that's such a good song)
Cole Younger
Mississippi Girls
The Old Man Under the Hill
Jerry Go Ile that Car (an Art Thieme hit, right?)
John Garner's Trail Herd
The Old Scout's lament
The Lone Buffalo Hunter
The Crooked Trail to Holbrook
Only a Cowboy
I have tunes to many of these in other books, but I was wondering if the tunes to any of these have been added to the Lomax book. For that matter, are the songs in your book in the same order, and have any been added? Should I be satisfied with the gem I've got, or should I also lust for a later edition?
Should I try lusting after women instead of songbooks?

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 04:30 AM

Well, Joe, they might be cuddlier in bed.*g*

This book has been rearranged and "edited for a general audience", i.e. "the best lines and verses of many of the most popular songs were woven together in composite", rather than fill it with several variants "as had become the custom in academia".

It includes "not only the songs created in cow camps and otehr imported and adapted....but also the sung poetry of the West."

Each chapter is a "different family of western songs":

Up the Trail
The Round-Up
Dodge City
Campfire and Bunkhouse
Sonofagun
& Way out West

So...none of them are in the order as in yours. There are no tunes for the ones you listed and the following are not even in this version: Bill Peters, the Stage Driver Hard Times(like you need that tune!) Cole Younger Mississippi Girls The Old Man Under the Hill Jerry Go Ile that Car (I love Art's rendition!)

Hope that helps. BTW, Bookfinder had a few versions, different dates and I think one or two of this one, just searched under Lomax, nothing else.

katwhoissofterthanasongbook!


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 04:39 AM

But the songbook cost me ten bucks (which is a steal). I took my honey to the State Fair yesterday, and it cost me forty. Sure was nice to see the fireworks from the Ferris wheel, though.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 11:03 AM

I like the old western tune

Get a L-O-N-G little doggie

A short one won't do


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Ely
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 05:48 PM

My dad used to sing "Old Chisholm Trail" and, since he only knew 2 or 3 "official" verses, would make up a dozen or so more about my brother and I each time he sang it. Very creative.

I like the one I found either in these archives or over in the COWPIE archives about "No Horses in Heaven/ Cowboy's Faith".

There's one with a pretty melody called "Hills of Mexico" about a young man from Arkansas who is lured away to work in Mexico as a ranch-hand, and returns only to find everyone he knew is gone. Can't find the lyrics.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 06:08 PM

I'd say you got a great buy, Joe. Ten bucks for the 1916 edition? Lucky dog. I'm reading The Last Cavalier right now, a recent and very thorough biography of John A. Lomax. Admire the man and much of his work, but be aware of his foibles. Sandy


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Amos
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 12:48 PM

I have the 1938 edition. In it, John Lomax comments that the original 1910 edition contained the songs more or less in the order they were found, while the present edition groups them under headings -- Up the Trail, The Round-Up, Dodge City - the End of the Trail, Campfire and Bunkhouse, Off Guard. "Son of a Gun", Way Out West.

A number of songs in this edition cite "Owen Wister's version".


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE TOWN OF OLD DOLORES
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 09:43 PM

Just been re-reading parts of Katie Lee's "Ten Thousand Goddam Cattle." The book with its rich collection of songs and stories is woven around a search for Dolores, a village that has completely disappeared, but was located southeast of Santa Fé in the Ortiz Mts. of the old Ortiz grant. The Santa Fé Trail passed close by.
I am looking for James Grafton Rogers' 1912 original of the song, "THE TOWN OF OLD DOLORES," pub. much later in "A Golden Treasury," by the University Club of Denver. Does anyone have or know of a copy?
I still have a little piece of land there, with the old mine my grandfather worked for a time. Lots of searching was done for a lode in those hills, but profits were few. No rich ores have ever been found in that type of volcanic emplacement, but gem quality turquoise once was plentiful in the old Tiffany and other claims. The area's mining is dead. Large pseudo-pueblo homes built by rich football-players, chip moguls, etc., are encroaching on the picturesque area. Large quantities of turquoise were mined there by the Indians in pre-Spanish days, much of it carried to the Valley of Mexico and the Aztecs (verified by analyses).

The version by Utah Phillips is posted in Part one of this thread, Here
Katie Lee gives part of the 1st verse, with music, slightly different from the way Utah sang it. I would like to see the version printed by Rogers. Katie Lee says only three recordings were made with Rogers' consent; by Utah Phillips, Oscar Brand and Katie Lee.
In following up the story of Dolores, Katie Lee scattered additional lines from the song on several pages, some lines different from or additional to those posted by Susan A_R in '99 from Phillips' recording:

All the strings of peppers hung
On the'dobes in the sun,
Blazin' red as some young puncher's new bandana,
And the scented smoke that came
From the piñon wood aflame
Smelt like incense to Our Lady of Mañana;
The scarlet lips, the clinkin' chips!
The drinks Ramon poured for us!

There us't to stand a town,
Where a crick come tumbling down,
From a mesa where she surely hadn't ought'a.
And if there's any little well
Down inside the Gates of Hell
Why I know the boys have named it, Old Dolores.

The greaser girls that fool
On the plaza - in the cool
There was one, I us't to meet her by a willer,
But the friendly lights are dark,
And the coyote's lonesome bark
Is the only music now in Old Dolores.

But the 'dobe walls are gone
And the goat bells in the dawn
Ain't a jinglin' in the streets of Old Dolores.
And the coyote's lonesome bark
Is the only music now in Old Dolores.

Lines gathered from pp. 96, 97, 183-185; I hope in the right order.

If there was a waterfall in these hills, it was pre- pre-historic. There are wells, OK for cattle, but not fit for human consumption because of the mineral content.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 03:40 AM

If you're looking for good western song material, take a look at the Mudcat Auction. The Lingenfelter/Dwyer book, Songs of the American West," offers some 200 songs, all with melodies and guitar chords. David Cohen did the music editing and guitar arrangements. All the proceeds from the auction go to Max and the Mudcat. Y'all bid now! It's a great book.

Harry Tuft, of the Denver Folklore Center, recorded "Old Dolores" for Folk-Legacy. It's now available as a CD - Across the Blue Mountains (CD-63). See it at www.folklegacy.com.

Sandy


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 06:56 AM

Thanks, Sandy, but looking for the original text of "The Town of Old Dolores" by Rogers.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: GUEST,hrothgar
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 06:56 AM

Jack Thorp's original 1908 collection of "Songs of the Cowboys" was republished and annotated by Austin and Alta Fife in 1966. Broomhall House, New York, publishers. library of Congress Catalogue Card No 65-24836.

Thorp did not include any tunes, but Fifes did.

I scored a second hand copy for 95 cents, but can't remember where.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 07:05 AM

"Billy Vanero" was from a poem by Eban Rexford, the author of "Silver Threads Among The Gold". "Billy Vanero" was on my first LP---for Kicking Mule.

Also on that album was "Blue Mountain" by Judge Fred Keller of Monticello, Utah. I learned it from Frank Hamilton who did it on his LP for Concert Disc called The Folksinger's Folksinger. Frank, I still think that was one of the best records of real folksongs ever done---by anyone. I wish I still had it. You ought to make it available--somehow !!

On That's The Ticket for Sandy's Folk Legacy, I did thr song "Dobe Bill" (called "The Killer" in Lomax). Also "Red River Shore"----another cowboy version of a Child ballad.

On the second Kicking Mule LP I did Michael Burton's "Night Rider's Lament".


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 09:54 AM

Best cowboy song - ever - is "Ragtime Cowboy Joe"

Especially as done several times by James Stewart on the Tonight Show - years ago of course.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 10:25 AM

"Streets of Laredo" "El Paso" "Rye Whisky"....my dad had an album when I was little by someone called (I think) Yodelling Slim Clark that I absolutely loved; I'd love to find it for him on CD if it's out there somewhere!


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 11:01 AM

"Haifa lootin', Newton shootin',
Son-of-a-nun from Barcelona,
Part time plowboy,--------- Joe."

art thieme


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 11:28 AM

Hell, that ain't no cowboy song!

A


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 08:02 PM

Pot Wrassler, recorded by Jackson in 1958, is a favorite of mine, seldom heard now.
" Billy Vanero" started life as "The Ride of Paul Venarez," writted as Art says by Rexford, and first published in Youth's Companion, Dec. 29, 1881. With time, Paul became Billy, Red Plume Warriors became Apache Indians and frontier town became Arizona town. (From Guy Logsdon, "The Whorehouse Bells were Ringing.") The appearance of the poem and the Arizona raids were only seven months apart; this probably led to the song's evolution. Hope I am not repeating an earlier posting; I know that this song has been mentioned before.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Louie Roy
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 02:47 PM

Guest Desdemona you can get that tape from the music barn.their email is info@themusicbarn.com I have one of yodeling Slim Clarks tapes but the songs on it are Sweet Betsy from Pike,Cowboys lament,Git along to the big corral,The bum song,The gal I left behind me,The old rugged cros,My country home in heaven,I'm riding old paint and leading old dan,Zebra Dunn,I've got no use for the women,Yellow rose of texas,I'd like to be in texas for the roundup in the spring,The trail drive to missoula montana and the Rocky Mountain Yodeler.If you want anymore info email me at roy1@wanweb.net Louie Roy


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Subject: Lyr Add: SIERRY PETES
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 09:47 PM

Lyr Add: SIERRY PETES

Away up high in the Sierry Petes,
Where the yeller pines grow tall,
Ole Sandy Bob an' Buster Jig,
Had a rodeer camp last fall.

Oh, they taken their hosses and runnin' irons
And mabbe a dawg or two,
An' they 'lowed they'd brand all the long-yered calves,
That come within their view.

And any old dogie that flapped long yeres,
An' didn't bush up by day,
Got his long yeres whittled an' his old hide scortched,
In a most artistic way.

Now one fine day ole Sandy Bob,
He throwed his seago down,
"I'm sick of the smell of burnin' hair*,
And I 'lows I'm a-goin' to town."

So they saddles up an' hits 'em a lope,
Fer it warn't no sight of a ride,
And them were the days when a Buckeroo
Could ile up his inside.

Oh, they starts her in at the Kaintucky Bar,
At the nead of Whisky Row,
And they winds up down by the Depot House,
Some forty drinks below.

They then sets up and turns around,
And goes her the other way,
An' to tell you the Gawd-forsaken truth,
Them boys got stewed that day.

As they was a ridin' back to camp,
A-packin' a pretty good load,
Who should they meet but the Devil himself,
A-prancin' down the road.

Sez he, "You ornery cowboy skunks,
You'd better hunt yer holes,
Fer I've come up from Hell's Rim Rock,
To gather in yer souls."

Sez Sandy Bob, "Old Devil be damned,
We boys is kinda tight,
But you ain't a-goin' to gather no cowboy souls,
'Thout you has some kind of a fight."

So Sandy Bob punched a hole in his rope,
And he swang her straight and true,
He lapped it on to the Devil's horns,
An' he taken his dallies too.

Now Buster Jig was a riata man,
With his gut-line coiled up neat,
So he shaken her out an' he built him a loop,
And he lassed the Devil's hind feet.

Oh, they stretched him out an' they tailed him down,
While the iron was a-gettin' hot,
They cropped and swaller-forked his yeres,
Then they branded him up a lot.

They pruned him up with a de-hornin' saw,
And they knotted his tail fer a joke,
They they rid off and left him there,
Necked to a Black-Jack oak.

If you're ever up high in the Sierry Petes,
An' you hear one hell of a wail,
You'll know it's that Devil a-bellerin' around,
About them knots in his tail.

Sierry is pronounced Sigh'-ree. *Line becomes "I'm sick of this cow-pyrography..." in the version in Katie Lee's book, also obtained from Gail Gardner.
Original words by Gail Gardner, written April, 1917, reproduced from Ohrlin, Glen, 1973, The Hell-Bound Train, pp. 69-72. Music shown in the book is the original, by Bill Simon.
According to Gardner, the song was sung by cowboys at the dude ranches and by himself and became widespread. See Katie Lee, Ten Thousand Goddam Cattle, for the history.
The song was stolen by a number of singers, including Powder River Jack, who claimed it as his own in his booklet, "Stampede." It was first properly credited in German, George, 1929, Cowboy Campfire Ballads. In 1939, German , Cowboy Song Book No. 5, claimed the music as his, not mentioning Simon. Perhaps he did redo the music and one of the tunes used belongs to him. He was a radio singer and performer. A corrupt version under another name appears in Larkin, Margaret, 1931, The Singing Cowboy, without attribution.
In the Dts, there is a smoothed-up version with the title "Tyin Ten Knots in the Devil's Tail.


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Subject: Lyr Add: HOME ON THE RANGE
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 12:59 AM

Home on the Range, get past the first verse, there is real poetry in this familiar old song.

HOME ON THE RANGE

II
How often, at night, when the heaven is bright
With the light from flickering stars,
Do I lie there amazed, and ask as I gaze,
"Does their glory exceed that of ours?"

III
Where the air is so pure, and the zephyrs so free,
And the breezes so balmy and light,
That I would not exchange my home on the range
For all of the cities so bright.

IV
Oh, give me a land where the bright diamond sand
Drifts lazily down to the stream,
And the graceful white swan goes gliding along
Like a maid in a heavenly dream.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 09:03 AM

Cranky, your version is closer to the one we sang as kids (yowling at the moon) back in the 30s than the one in the DT. The last verse in DT seems to be a late add-on.
It is earlier than the Lomax 1911 date. The Traditional Ballad Index (Fresno) has dates going back to 1876, better evidence for the 80s and definite for 1904 (as Arizona Home).
That it was sung to Franklin Roosevelt by newspaper reporters when he was elected (see DT) is probable; it was certainly sung by drunken reporters (and other drunks) to almost everyone on many occasions from 1920 on, if not earlier, yowled to girl friends by young men passing puberty and sung in every bathroom in the country.
Another old curmudgeon.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Kim C
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 10:49 AM

I am an absolute NUT for cowboy music. Unfortunately, there ain't much demand for it in Tennessee, although I do get to impress friends at parties with my yodeling. ;-) My favorite cowboy song of all time is Night Rider's Lament. I never tire of singing it. My second favorite is Don Edwards singing A Bad Half Hour to the tune of Annie Laurie, but I have to have a tissue handy whenever I hear it.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Genie
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 01:39 AM

Dicho, thanks for the inside dope on Sierry Petes!

Genie


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: GUEST,frankie
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 07:01 AM

Thanks for posting Sierry Petes, Dicho. Are you aware of any recordings of it by Orhlin or others.
One of my favorites is When the Bloom is on the Sage with its' jaunty, loping rythym and raggy guitar part (raggy the way I do it, anyway). f


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 02:14 PM

Katie Lee lists recordings in "Ten Thousand Goddam Cattle, p. 224-225. Ohrlin not mentioned, but here are some of them.
Harry Jackson, The Cowboy, Folkways FH-5343
Cisco Houston, Cowboy Ballads, Folkways FA-2022
Gail Gardner, Cowboy Songs, The Arizona Friends of Folklore at Northern Arizona Univ. Aff 33-1
Katie Lee, Ten Thousand Goddam Cattle, KD 10076

I had not mentioned that Gail Gardner included Sierry Petes in his book, Orejana Bull: For Cowboys Only, with other songs of his.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: raredance
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 08:56 PM

A version was recorded by Powder River Jack and Kitty Lee (not the same as Katie Lee!) in 1930. It is included on a 1965 RCA Victor Lp that I have called "Authentic Cowboys and Their Western Folksongs" (LPV-522).

rich r


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 10:46 PM

Powder River Jack Lee, in the book "Stampede," falsely claimed authorship of "Sierry Petes." In "Ten Thousand Goddam Cattle," (1976, p. 223) Katie Lee says "Jack Lee is deceased, or Gail would be tempted to 'dress him out'on the spot." In their song book, Jack and Kitty Lee also claim to have written the music. He sang "Sierry Peaks" (a meaningless title, and claimed the locale was in the Bighorns) and changed the title to Tying Knots..." (from Glen Ohrlin, 1973, "The Hell-Bound Train"). I am afraid I cannot recommend the Jack Lee recording.
John L. White, in "Git Along, Little Dogies," recounts Gail Gardner's life and on p. 124 defines words used in "Sierry Petes" (see original song which I posted in this thread earlier);
1. Sierry Petes- local nickname for a mountain range, the Sierra Prieta, southeast of Prescott, Arizona.
2. Rodeer camp- roundup camp, from the Spanish verb rodear, meaning "to surround."
3. Runnin' irons- curved strips of iron with which one could burn 'any' brand on an animal's hide. The opposite of the stamp iron, which makes only one design.
4. Bush up- hide in the bushes.
5. Seago- a "lass rope" made of fiber something like maguay. Says Gardner: "No Yavapai County cowboy would ever say 'lasso.' A steer breaks out and somebody yells 'lass him.' The cowboy's catch rope is his 'lass rope' or just his rope." (Gail Gardner in letter to White, 1966)
6. Sets up- pull up their hosses when going at a fast clip.
7. Taken his dallies- snubbed the end of his rope around the saddle horn, from the Spanish dar la vuelta, meaning "to take a turn."
8. Riata, gut-line- a "lass-rope" made of braided rawhide.
9. tailed him down- "In roping big cattle," Gardner says, "one cowboy 'heads' (ropes by the head or horns) and the other 'heels' (ropes the animal by one or both hind feet). A big, strong animal will sometimes brace both front feet wide apart and is stretched out but is not down, so one cowboy, usually the 'header,' after making sure his rope is secured to the saddle horn, gets off his horse, grabs the critter by the tail, and gives a heavy yank sideways, which lays him on his side" (letter from Gardner to White, 1973).
Swaller-forked- notched each ear so that it resembled the forked tail of a swallow. Gardner goes on to say the brand is the sign of legal ownership, but the ear mark is easily spotted when a steer is approached.
11. Necked- tied by the neck.
Gardner also described the origin of the poem in "Orejana Bull for Cowboys Only," 1935. He and Bob Heckle were camped at the Bill Dearing ranch in the Sierra Prieta (Sierry Petes) west of Prescott. "One day we came into town for a little whizzer and on the way back to camp, one of us remarked that the devil got cowboys for doing what we had been doing. That was the germ of an idea that came to life on a Santa Fé train in 1917..." when he was going to Washington, DC to get into military service. "The gentle, broad-beamed cattle in the fields of Kansas were so different from the stock Bob and I had been working that I was inspired..." Gardner mailed the verses back to his sister. After the war he showed them to a friend, Bill Simon, who composed a simple tune and began singing them. Gardner first sang "The Sierry Petes" for the cowboys attending one of the rodeos staged on the Z-Triangle ranch near Wagoner. This began his composing and singing career. He sold his Skull Valley ranch in 1960.
White reproduced an Out Our Way cartoon by J. R. Williams, Gardner's neighbor, with a take-off on "The Sierry Petes."


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: GUEST,frankie
Date: 13 Jan 02 - 07:20 AM

Fascinating stuff, Dicho and thanks to you and rich r for the recording info. f


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: masato sakurai
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 04:45 AM

Katie Lee wrote a paper "Gail Gardner and the Sierry Petes" (Journal of Arizona History Vol. 15, No. 3: (Summer 1977): 209-222), which is online (CLICK HERE).
~Masato


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Midchuck
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 03:06 PM

Masato, Thank You.

Great read.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 03:19 PM

Ten Thousand Goddam Cattle, by Katie Lee, is a book that should be better known. She is a damn good writer. The tale of the search for the Town of Old Dolores is well done.
Music for The Glory Trail is given on p. 201 of Katie Lee's book.
Katie Lee also gives the words and music to The Sierry Petes in her book, but the music is slightly modified from the original Simon version given in Ohrlin (see posting of 09 Jan 02 above), probably to suit her voice better.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Acme
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 04:33 PM

Katie Lee spoke at an environmental literature conference last year in Flagstaff and got a little carried away, from what I hear. (I missed the banquet). She really gets rolling when she talks about the canyons in Arizona that are now underwater. Same Katie Lee--the singer.

Sam Hinton has recorded a number of cowboy songs, and in his introductions to the songs defines some of the terms unique to the regions where they evolved. Similar to what Dicho posted.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 05:40 PM

A fantastic website for anyone interested in publications of cowboy songs, poetry and performers is "Voices West- Cowboy Poetry and Song. I would guess the listing of cowboy songbooks is unequaled.
HERE
From Homepage, click on cowboy songs and then on contents to get the index. The same path is used to bring up the cowboy poetry index.
For more information on Sam Hinton (a "renaissance man") see the Angel City website:
HERE


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 05:50 PM

Well, the Angel City site is interesting, but it is the wrong one for Sam Hinton. Here it is (I hope):
HERE


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Subject: Chords Add: THE SIERRY PETES
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 07:44 PM

I hope I am doing this right. (Don't laugh, just post corrections)

THE SIERRY PETES

note = ca. 208 (half = ca. 104)

(Bbm) Way up high in the Sierry Petes
Where the yeller pines grow (Fm) tall
Ole Sandy Bob an' Buster Jig
Had a (F7) rodeer camp last (Bbm) fall.
Chords from Katie Lee, Ten Thousand Goddam Cattle, p. 225.

A-(D) way up high in in the Sierry Petes
Where the yeller pines grows (A7) tall,
Ole Sandy Bob an' Buster Jig
Had a rodeer camp last (D) fall.

From Lingenfelter and Dwyer, Songs of the American West, p. 358.

From abbreviated rewrite in Margaret Larkin (by Jack Lambert or Everett Cheetham?)

Away (Eb) up high in the Sirey Peaks
Where mountain pines grow (Bb7) tall
Sandy Sam and Rusty Jiggs
Had a round-up camp last (Eb) fall.

Singing Cowboy, p. 76


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Subject: Chords Add: TOWN OF OLD DOLORES
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 08:09 PM

TOWN OF OLD DOLORES - Chords
note = ca. 106
In the (FM)country down below
Where the (BbM)little piñons grow,
And its (C7)nearly always half a day to (FM)water
There used to stand a town
Whers a (BbM)crick come tumblin' down
From a (C7)mesa where she surely hadn't (FM)oughter;
Her (C7)streets were bright with (FM)candle light,
The (CM)whole town (GM)joined a (AM) chorus,
(C7)And (FM)every man in sight
let his (BbM)cattle drift at night,
Just to (C7)mosey to the town of Old Do- (FM)lores;

Katie Lee, Ten Thousand Goddam Cattle, p. 231.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 10:53 PM

Dicho...there was an old HTML thread way back here that had some interesting ideas for posting chords in it...I did an experiment and Bert & Joe added to the details...it makes the chord 'look' right. (look about half way down)


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 11:45 PM

Bill D, thanks for the thread. There are some things there that I will have to study over.
What I did above was put the chord marking immediately in front of the syllable that had the marking above it. I forgot () in the first ones I gave so they could be confusing. WYSIWYG suggested this method. Using superscripts, as you did, is clearer yet, but I will have to learn that.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 10:19 PM

Thanks to Jim Kroll at the Denver Public Library, Western History section, I now have the published lyrics of "Old Dolores," by James Grafton Rogers, which he published after retirement many years after its composition. There are three verses, with an additional one by George A. H. Fraser, inserted between two and three.

Lyr. Add: OLD DOLORES
James Grafton Rogers (and George A. H. Fraser)
Air: "The Foggy, Foggy Dew," with variations.

In the country down below
Where the little piñons grow,
And it's nearly allus half a day to water,
There us't to stand a town,
Where a crick come tumbling down,
From a mesa where she surely hadn't ought'a.
Her streets were bright with candlelight,
The whole town joined the chorus,
And every man in sight
Let his cattle drift all night
Just to mosey to the town of Old Dolores.

Then things just kind of spin
'Till the sun comes up agin,
Like the back of some old prairie wagon,
And would show you dim and red
Maybe half a hundred head
Of our saddle ponies standing
Reins a-draggin',
The red mud walls,
The water falls,
The whole wide world before us.
But the 'dobe walls are gone
And the goat bells in the dawn
Ain't a jingling in the streets of Old Dolores.

(Additional Verse by George A. H. Fraser)
And the strings of peppers hung
On the house-fronts in the sun,
Blazin' red as some young puncher's bandana,
And the scented smoke that came
From the piñon wood aflame
Smelt like incense to Our Lady of Mañana;
The scarlet lips, the clickin' chips!
The drinks Ramon poured for us!
But the friendly lights are dark,
And the coyote's lonesome bark
Is the only music now in Old Dolores.

The greaser girls that fool
On the Plaza- in the cool,
There was one, I us't to meet her by a willow,
But I guess most any girl
Gives a feller's head a whirl
When the sames been using saddles fer a piller.
The wide-eyed stars,
The long segars,
The smiles that waited for us.
And if there's any little well
Down inside the Gates of Hell,
Why I know the boys have named it
Old Dolores.

Published in "A Golden Treasury," University Club of Denver, 1973, pp. 30-31. Mr. Rogers was a long-time member of the University Club.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 10:42 PM

Next Big River is here: CLICK HERE


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: mouldy
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 03:40 AM

Now I know I'm probably sort of out of place here, being in Yorkshire and mainly ignorant of the tradition, but about 12 years ago I heard my first cowboy song(s) when my other half returned from 2 months working in Southern Wyoming with a tape by Michael Martin Murthy. This does have a version of the "Sierry Petes" on it, which I like, plus a version of "To Hear the Nightingale Sing" which is common in English song (replace cowboy with soldier), and "The Meaning of Life" which is more of a poem. (Also others too numerous to mention).
10 years ago we took the family to Wyoming and ended up, as a result of a double-booked hotel room near Yellowstone, at the Cody Ranch Resort. There was a cowboy poet/singer on that night, and a very intimate group of no more than a dozen people sat round a log fire with dogs at our feet to hear him - and he did the "Meaning of Life". I can't remember his name, but he was a hatmaker by trade and had a shop in Cody.
What interests me is the influences you can hear from the other traditions that were the backgrounds of these men. I got hold of a book of cowboy songs published by Mel Bay. I grabbed it when I saw it because it's not the sort of thing you see every day. There are dance tunes in the back of the book, and you can see how tunes have travelled well.

Andrea


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 23 Apr 03 - 05:00 PM

Summary of threads on "Old Dolores (The Town of Old Dolores)"
Original by James Grafton Rogers, as published by him, with additional verse by George Fraser- 13471 (this thread, 14 Mar 03).
Rogers, with Katie Lee additions- 13471 (this thread, 07 Jan 02).
Chords 12 Mar 02. Also thread 51310.
Utah Phillips version, thread 13283, 25 Aug 99. Changes. Mention of Harry Tufts version on Folk-Legacy, thread 13283, 26 Aug 99.
DT, song ID 8583. Rewritten version by either utah Phillips or Harry Tuft (not clear) July 01.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Lane
Date: 23 Apr 03 - 09:17 PM

I heard it years ago, Sons of the Pioneers, maybe???   And I"ve been looking for it ever sinces... "On the Trail to San Antone"... I think that's the title anyway.... "I'll hop up on my pony and I'll ride away, on the trail to San Antone.... "...

Can anyone help me find the chords?????

Lane


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 23 Apr 03 - 10:27 PM

I believe the song is from the movie, Gene Autry, 1947, Trail to San Antone. Maybe someone has the old Gene Autry songbooks and can locate it. Not in Cowpie and looks like the Record Lady is gone.
Lots of covers, but can't find and lyrics or chords.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Lane
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 12:27 AM

Yes, I think that's the one... I've searched Cowpie and other sources with no luck.... maybe someone has an MP3 or? Would like to get chords, I think I remember the lyrics...


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Subject: Lyr Add: DOUBLE-BREASTED MANSION (J G Rogers)
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 18 May 03 - 04:45 PM

Lyr. Add: DOUBLE-BREASTED MANSION
(James Grafton Rogers)

Key C
How well I remember, not many years ago,
The drummers used to hang around my store.
They would drink up all my whiskey
and they'd smoke up my cigars.
And my servant girls they'd "mash"
behind the door.
But now the times have changed
and I am growing poor,
Of the free lunch I can always
eat my share.
And I think about the Sweitzer cheese
and I always used to eat
In my double-breasted mansion on the square.

Chorus:
Oh! her roof was copper-bottomed
and her chimneys solid gold,
And an elevator placed on every stair,
But I lost a lot at Keno
and I'll never more behold
My double-breasted mansion on the square.

Forty million head of cattle
used to roam around our farm,
And each hog he had a splendid feather bed,
We had male and female roosters,
and they liked their whiskey warm,
They were of Shanghai, Cochin China breed.
Our corn fields yielded butter
and the orchards yielded lard,
We used to sow and reap the mellow pear,
But I lost a lot at Keno
and I'll never more behold
That double-breasted mansion on the square.

E-8. James Grafton Rogers, 1973, "A Golden Treasury," p. 31, published by the prestigious University Club of Denver, Rogers' home in later years. The song is typical of the tales told at the bar in western towns by failed western tycoons (and bums) trying to cadge drinks.
Rogers wrote "Old Dolores" (this thread) and many other poems collected later in "A Golden Treasury." He sang most of them, but seldom indicated more than the key. I once heard that he sang this one to a tune modified from "Little Joe The Wrangler."


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Gene
Date: 18 May 03 - 11:54 PM

belive I have that by Roy Rogers...will look tomorrow...


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 19 May 03 - 12:57 PM

Gene, please do. I would like to know what tune he used.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Gene
Date: 19 May 03 - 06:39 PM

rather than IMBED lyrics in this rambling thread, I
posted to a new [LYR ADD:] thread-

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=59839&messages=1


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 May 09 - 09:06 PM

These 1938 (and 1986?) re-issues of the Favorite Cowboy Songs book--do they have only the songs from the original 1910 Alan Lomax book, or are there more modern ones added? I have a friend who's looking for a book of cowboy songs with none later than, say, 1920. (Nothing from the radio era or after--no, not even Ragtime Cowboy Joe.)   She's pertikler.

She thought the book she was really looking for was called Cowboy Songs and Frontier Songs, but it seems evident to me that the book she wants is the subject of this thread--as long as there are no new songs added in the new additions. She did say that it came out in 1910, assembled by Alan Lomax.

If the 1938 and 1986 versions are just reprints--no additions--where can she get a copy of this book?   Any ideas?


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Mark Ross
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:03 PM

Here's the ABEbooks web page

It was Alans' father John who did the 1st edition.

Mark Ross


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:54 PM

Additions were made to several editions.
The original 1910 edition by John A. Lomax was reprinted in 1911 and 1915; Abebooks lists three at $104-225, the latter for a first in good condition.
Title: "Cowboy Songs."

Additions were made to a new edition, 1916-1919.I have a 1925 reprint which was reasonable in price.
A thread here at Mudcat discusses the additions and their dates of inclusion; it is much cheaper to buy one of these and use the Mudcat information to isolate those added after 1910.

The 1938 edition was a major revision, many additions; it was reprinted through 1966 (or later?). The title page became "Cowboy Songs and Other Frontier Ballads; Revised and Enlarged," but the cover title remained "Cowboy Songs." Alan Lomax was added as co-author.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: kendall
Date: 19 May 09 - 06:54 AM

Home on the range... I don't know if this verse was original or not but I always liked it:

The red man was pressed from this part of the west,
It aint likely he'll ever return
To the banks of Red River where seldom if ever their flickering camp fires burn.

Any one who wants Slim Clark recordings can contact his widow. Details on request.


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Subject: RE: Favourite Cowboy Songs-Second Edition
From: olddude
Date: 19 May 09 - 07:06 AM

Art Thieme wrote a song called "Rock River Valley" that has become one of my all time favourite cowboy songs also


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