BS: I Hate the Beatles

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 08:14 AM

Discussions like this is really more of how it influenced your life in general not so much the music more of what you were doing or what tastes you preferred at the time. Even if you hate them it still gets one heck of a response. It is more of a milestone like Bill Haley, Elvis, Kennedy, The Beatles, Twiggy, The Stones, The Sex Pistols, Nirvana. Mostly what I remembered about the Beatle era was having a great family time, the music is memorable mostly because I was young and happy then and I equate it with that.

It would be interesting to see threads about different popular bands or artists (or animated characters) just to see the response.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 06:13 AM

A negative legacy that the Beatles left is the 'boy band culture' wherever you look at every turn up pops another one.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 05:24 AM

Genie, of course history should be discussed about - if I thought otherwise I would not do it so often myself. Discussions can be controversial and even emotional. But hatred is an emotion reserved to present conditions. Therefore, in our case, I think the objects are not The Beatles, but phenomena in our current media.

Ethnic hatred is often based on undigested bits of ancient history, wrongly projected to current grievances. Fortunately, this thread is not meant that seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Genie
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 01:35 AM

Grishka, since the advent of recorded music, no artists who have produced records, tapes, CDs, etc., are really only "history." Bands disband, musicians die or for lesser reasons stop producing new songs and compositions, etc., but the music lives on.

For that matter, are we to say that Beethoven is simply "history," just because he left only sheet music and has been de-composing for centuries? How about Child ballads?

I see no reason why the discussion of someone's music is less valid or important just because they are "history."


Oh, and as that comment - like most of this thread really IS about music, it's annoying that the thread has arbitrarily been relegated to the BS section -- where people wanting to check out only music-related threads will not open it.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Clontarf83
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 01:23 AM

Trying to figure out a folkie version of "across the universe:---that is one amazing song...

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,seth in Olympia
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 10:47 PM

--Kennedy killed,Viet-Nam takes off, Beatles arrive- many things turn upside down don't get turned about. Liked the Beatles,still can't stand to hear " Magical Mystery Tour" 'cause it has too many Viet-Nam connections for me.......

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 08:29 PM

Raptor... I was at Zellers today on accounta it is a nice place to take Mum for some exercise in her old age as there is hardly anyone there most days so she can easily wheel around a cart. I saw a half dozen young lads with Just In Beaver haircuts and it reminded me of The Beavers back in the 60s. Mop tops all. Looked as stunned as me arse but a lad will do anything to alleviate a hard days night eh.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Raptor
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 06:36 PM

This thread is below the line because it is bullshit. It's just fun. It's just banter. It's just what I do... even muscians post inane crap now and then for FUN.

If responding to stuff in the BS section is beneath you stay above. I find the banter down here less serious and more entertaining. Also My opinion about the Beatles is not musical its incidental. My opinion about whom I like or hate should not matter to anyone but me.

Also I thought less people wopuld chime in with critisism because they feel slighted by the fact that I think the beatles are a shitty boy band from the sixties(like they are personaly involved in any way with the beatles aside from being one of millions of people who like to listen to them.)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 10:45 AM

""many music-related threads here are equally chit-chatty, snarky, and full of bullshit.""

The question may also be, are these not "below-the liners", or really, "above-the-liners"?

OK, is someone new attempting another BS thread take over scheme?
:)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 10:35 AM

You haven't been told yet today? >;-)

Raptor knew what he was doing. Me too. LH too...

Of course, I wouldn't put it past him to return and ask for it to be moved. Perhaps someone shoud start a PM petition so he can be persuaded to mend the error of his ways. Maybe we could hold a plebiscite on starting a petition.

I, for one, do not think any discussion of The Beatles should be allowed at all as they "are not folk"... or are they?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 07:45 AM

Patsy, for high-gloss feel-good American music, it is the secret of success that it sounds "self-evident" in hindsight without really being predictable. Bacharach is its classical master, in a sense comparable to Mozart. The Beatles, in a different genre, actually managed to expand the range of what was considered to sound good, which is their historical merit. For parallels in classical music, Beethoven and Schubert have been named. Unfortunately, a large part of what the Beatles published was indeed either predictable or just weird, in other words mediocre.

Well, they're history now, and the only rightful cause of "hatred" about them is the commercialist necrophilia encountered in today's media, as mentioned above.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 06:22 AM

===This thread is below the line because it is bullshit. It's just fun. It's just banter. It's just what some do... even muscians post inane crap now and then for FUN. NObody really hates The Beatles. Just some of their music I expect.===

In fact, gnu, for all your saying, this, as Genie says, is mere assertion, inconsistent with the usual reasons for threads being BS, & explains zilch. Like Genie, I have wondered all along why this is a below-line thread when it is so self-evidently music oriented, & as related to folk and as serious about its subject [who sez it's just 'bullshit' & 'banter' & 'FUN', apart from you?] as many other above-line threads.

I presume it is BS because that is what the OP, Raptor, chose. But he hasn't been back to explain why.

I think we should be told.

Please...

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 06:05 AM

No.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Genie
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 05:53 AM

gnu,
I've now read the entire thread to date, and the issue of why this music-related thread is in the non-music-related section isn't addressed until after the 100th post.

(Even at that, I don't buy your rationale, as many music-related threads here are equally chit-chatty, snarky, and full of bullshit. They're just bullshit (or "breeze shooting") about music — and often about music that's no more "folk" than a lot of what The Beatles did.
(I've never accepted the custom of labelling a group "rock" and calling the genre of all their songs "rock" just because SOME of what they do falls into that category. I think The Beatles were far too eclectic in their styles and influences to be pigeonholed as "rock musicians.")

But the main reason I didn't wade through the whole thread before posting the Q about why it's in the BS section is that, by putting the thread in the BS section, you signaled me that its content wasn't about The Beatles as performers, songwriters, instrumentalists, or vocalists.   I don't open a lot of BS threads, and placement of the thread here suggested to me that the content of the thread was something quite different from what it actually seems to be for the most part.

So now do we need 3 separate sections? One for "serious discussions of folk music & blues," one for non-music-related topics, and a third for "Other kinds of music and/or casual banter about music or musicians?"

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Genie
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 03:47 AM

Not really, Gnu.   I scanned the thread and didn't have time to read all the discussion carefully. (There's no way to do a quick word search to find the placement topic/issue.)

I'm just generally of the opinion that when a thread topic is music -- as opposed to, say, the political views or personal lives of musicians -- it belongs in the music section. It's confusing when music-oriented threads are relegated to the "non-music" section. I did read through a lot of the posts, and they seemed all to be about the Beatles' music.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:16 PM

Genie... ahhh... it's been discussed in the thread already. I'd post it for you but I think you might find it more interesting to read the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:41 PM

And this thread is in the non-music-related section why?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:24 PM

When my son was five we were talking on the telephone. I was was a non-custodial parent at the time. He's 25 now.

At one point he says, "Dad, do you know who my favorite band is?" "No, who is it, Owen?" "The Beatles."

The other day we were talking on the phone. He lives pretty far away from me. He says, "Dad, you know what cd I just bought w/part of the money you sent us for Christmas?" "No." "The Beatles' BBC cd set."

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 11:05 PM

Don't get me wrong LH, it was good to see him, and his singing was fine with me. Just the music.

But, it was far better than a year or so when I went to a Neil Young concert. You couldn't even hear his voice or lyrics through the music. I guess just bad mixing. I experienced the same thing at a David Bowie concert...if I hadn't known the lyrics of his songs, I wouldn't have understood em with the overloaded music. All the above concerts were inside (different places)....it's maybe a factor. And, I understand thay are often trying to put a new sound on old songs. Oh well...I like tham all anyway. But, its their voices and lyrics I like best.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 11:16 AM

I don't know, Ed. I've been to about a dozen Dylan concerts since '74, and the sound has been great in all of them. As for Bob's performance, it was great in most of them, but not all that good in 2 of them. He has his off nights now and then.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 07:40 AM

Perhaps it's a case of the green-eyed monster, here in the West Country at that time apart from the Troggs (of crop circle fame)it wasn't really happening here, in Bristol anyway, my older cousins told about the jazz clubs and coffee bars in Bristol but nothing as far as I am aware that successfully topped the charts.

London and the Northern cities could just have well been as far away as the USA to us. Our neighbours in Wales produced Tom Jones but unfortunately he didn't really do it for the pre-teens and teenage girls of that time who regarded as him being mainly for the 40 something housewives right until the 80's, infact until he started to collaborate with some of the modern bands of now from the 90's onwards I hadn't really taken very much notice of him until then. If we had been lucky enough to produced something for the city like the Beatles it might have been a different story.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 07:00 AM

"What really upset the crowd the most that night was (1) the lousy sound mix onstage during the brief electric set?

I was at a Dylan concert a year or so ago, this could describe that concert also. I am not really sure if he ever really "got" the electrical stuff? Or, maybe he is just maintaining the tradition?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 05:57 AM

Yes, Kat, I'm well aware that some of the Americans at Newport were very upset with Dylan for going electric. (According to Maria Muldaur, about half the people there didn't like it, and the other half did like it.) My point, however, was that the negative reaction of the folk community in Britain, overall, was more extreme than it was in most of the USA. There was one outdoor show that Dylan did at Forest Hills, I think it was, in the USA where the audience was extremely hostile to the new music. It got so bad for a bit that the Band's famous drummer, Levon Helm, couldn't take it anymore, and he quit the tour, and somebody else filled in for him after that (Mickey Jones?).

Amos was at Newport in '65, though, and he seems to have enjoyed Dylan's electric set just fine. I think many others there enjoyed it too, though opinions were sharply divided on that.

I probably would have objected to it strenuously at the time, because I was still a folkie purist in '65 and I had utter contempt for electric rock bands on principle. However, I didn't really start listening to old Bob himself till about 4 years later, and the first stuff I really tuned into then was the electric albums, and they really blew my mind. I loved them. It was definitely time for a change, Bob just got there about 4 or 5 years sooner than I did, that's all. ;-) He got there sooner than a whole lot of people did.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:09 PM

Dan, grandbabies love the Beatles. You'd better tune up a few of theirs along with your own, of course.:-)

LH, Night Owl wouldn't agree with you, from what she's told me about Newport. She was there and there were a bunch of Americans, like her, who were NOT happy about him going electric. Ya can't put that off on just the Brits.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 10:03 PM

Gnu, I suspect you have blown a seal, or two, off Shediac in your life (a seal in your snow mobile, that is)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 09:47 PM

This thread is below the line because it is bullshit. It's just fun. It's just banter. It's just what some do... even muscians post inane crap now and then for FUN. NObody really hates The Beatles. Just some of their music I expect.

Excepting a few seal pups that Paul scared the shit out of when he and the crazy bitch terrorized the poor buggers. (NO! I will NEVER let that crap go. NEVER. That poor seal pup in the photo op will never forget either. Unless it was eaten by some hungry Newfie child that Sir Paul didn't invite for a hot meal on his fookin yacht.)

Sorry. But there it is.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 09:19 PM

First of all, I suppose we're registering our displeasure with the Beatles by having this thread below the line.   It clearly appears to be about music.

Secondly, Mousethief may have been a bit vehement, but he makes some good points.

What exactly have Mudcatters learned from folk music (that they did not know before, of course)?

Seems to me that if you learn anything from a folk song, it's virtually always a very slanted bit of information (usually left of center, with some exceptions-- e.g. : where on the political spectrum do you put Sam Hall?)

Slanted, just as when people think they can learn about history from a movie (e.g. Oliver Stone movies).

It pays to be skeptical of anything you "learn" from a song--or a movie--unless it's confirmed elsewhere.

Which is of course in large part true about any single source.



The Beatles were great fun and made good pop music.   Until people--and maybe the Beatles-- felt the songs had to have a deeper significance.   Just why was it ever a burning issue who was the Walrus, by the way?   Or who Lucy was? Etc.   And why did they have to try to twist every dial in the studio?

That was when the music lost a lot of its charm.

But the early stuff--before they retired from touring-- is still great--on its own, undemanding, terms.

Boiled down, I suppose this means I agree with the earlier poster who said they were a lot better before Paul died.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 06:39 PM

Don't worry... it'll be alright.

What's not rock and roll and what's not a statement... Lady Madonna? Who can call them bubblegum and vaccuous?

And who can deny them their value to entertaining the human condition? 6M hits on one song? On You Tube. 6M hits on one song!

Of course, I am still pissed that Sir Paul doesn't like seal flipper pie but I forgive his stupidity as he really isn't all that smart as a human.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 06:31 PM

About half of them hated it, and the other half loved it. That's a pretty good average when you're introducing an unexpected change in your style, but it's the complainers who always make the most noise isn't it? ;-) Maria Muldaur was there watching when he played at Newport, and she loved it, and she says a lot of the other people did too, but that the sound mix was very bad, so it was hard to hear a lot of the words.

What really upset the crowd the most that night was (1) the lousy sound mix onstage during the brief electric set and (2) that Dylan played such a short overall set. They were expecting him to stay on a lot longer. As I recall, he played 3 electric songs...to a very mixed reaction...then played 3 acoustic songs...to rapturous applause...then left the stage. People felt let down that he didn't play longer than that. The media then got hold of the "booing" incident and publicized it everwhere, and it gathered steam from that moment on, building to the famous "Judas!" shout in Manchester and Dylan's "You're a liar!" response to same. It seems to have been (some of) the English folkies who were most deeply upset about Dylan's supposed "sellout". Methinks they took themselves and their whole pretentious political shtick a wee bit too seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 06:28 PM

HELP! Over 6 million served. Put that in yer bank account!

Rock and rollllllll

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 06:13 PM

Dylan's transition from "folk" to "electric" was not that smooth, among the folk following fans...I seem to remember he was "booed" off the stage on at least one occasion,

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 05:34 PM

I think rock started growing up lyrically...and in the sense of what themes were expressed in those lyrics...primarily due to the overwhelming influence of Bob Dylan on the entire scene from about 1965 on. The Beatles and the Stones were very much influenced by Bob, and they started writing songs with more serious themes. That was about the time the Beatles began moving away from "silly love songs" and exploring all kinds of other things in their songs.

It was also, perhaps not coincidentally, about the time that the audiences began to shift away from a mob of screaming teenage girls and into the more modern rock audience. The days of the screamers were fast running out by '66.

My old pal Johnny Death told me that he first saw the Stones in '65 at Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto. The first song they played was "Lady Jane". He said that the noise all around from screaming girls in the audience was so deafening that he could barely hear the band!

Thank God that period has passed. Modern rock audiences are fairly noisy...but nothing even comparable to the lunatic hysteria that was standard back in '64 when bands like the Beatles or the Stones played a live concert.

When Dylan brought the quiet folk audience and the noisy rock audience together in '65-66, and played songs that made you think, that was when the whole scene started to grow up a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Slag
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 05:18 PM

Yes, GGfS, I will readily concede that point: The Beatles answered the question "Where could music possibly go next?" Their roots were in American Rock 'n Roll but they spawned an explosion that is still ongoing. Imitators and the truly inspired took off in a myriad of directions in ways that seemed inconceivable before their advent.

I would argue that the Moody Blues' Days of Future Past was a really gigantic leap also: something more than three guitars and a drum set. It demonstrated that Rock and Pop were more than kids' stuff. Rock began to grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 05:10 PM

Well, that's good, oldster... I know lotta people who just listen to "The Fox" (Clear Channel) classic rock station... I mean, after a few days of it it get really old... Too bad they never did play the underground bands on many stations... We had one in the DC area, WPGC, that went for that music and it was great... I mean, bands like Ten Years After, Spooky Tooth, Humble Pie, Climax Blues Band, etc... Yeah, now I could listen to alot of that today and be very happy for quite some time...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 04:55 PM

I liked more than a few of their songs for sure. They changed everything I think. Loves you yea yea yea really reminds me of fishin. It was on the radio constantly when we would go to the old fishin hole. Funny how music brings you back to a certain time and place. Today I tend to not listen when it comes on the radio. Not that the songs were not great, just heard them so many times in the nearly 50 years it has been -that I don't get into them anymore as much.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 04:35 PM

Whoa! What an opportunity. Okay, since Spaw isn't out of hospital yet to make his kind of rejoinder to that, I will speak for him...

"Or your dick less than half an inch long." ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 04:15 PM

Many people don`t like what they refer to as `not my kind of music`. For example, they like folk so rock doesn`t appeal to them. Or they`re rock and orchestral music doesn`t appeal to them. Or they`re jazz and folk doesn`t appeal to them. Such is life. Some people have very narrow vision and well-entrenched prejudices. I guess all people have a little of that in them. We will learn before we die, or not. If yer scratch pad is less than a half inch wide . . .

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 02:55 PM

I resemble that remark, LH! I demand an apoplexie.

Easily administered with playing Yellow Submarine more than once... about 1.000001 times, actually.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 01:30 PM

I know him. He's beyond help! ;-) But he IS happy...and that's more than I can say for some of the people who post regularly on these threads...

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Doug Saum
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 01:17 PM

Someone who knows Raptor should tend to him. This is a clear cry for HELP! Doug Saum

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:56 PM

And, I did not mean Mudcat Rap...but, now that I think of it......

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:55 PM

"another generation of musicians came along in the 90s to rescue us from disco/musac"...

Who will rescue us from RAP? Or, is it dwindling already?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:36 PM

The Beatles were fab....gear!

Possibly you had to here in England. the excitement of record shops not being able to get enough copies. Record factories simply couldn't keep up enough production.

The style....

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:57 AM

Made yer Best move and never regretted it I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: mousethief
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:56 AM

j-boy: [b]Whoa. You're pretty harsh mousethief. I love the Beatles but I don't understand why you feel the need to defend them with such vehemence. They certainly wouldn't. [/b]

You're right. I'll bow out of the discussion; I'm probably taking it too personally. With apologies to all, and especially Kendall.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 08:41 AM

Well, it must be a new year 'cause I agree with GfinS...*g*...

I mean, yeah, yeah yeah (sorry, couldn't resist, Capt'n) music had become predictable with surf music and Mo-town... Not alot of hooks in either tho some of the surf music had memorable ones ("Wipe Out" being one)... Seems that the Beatles were able to shuffle the chords just right so that almost all of their songs had a hook... That was very refreshing... And they we're ashamed to let the guitar do alot of the talkin' with some very creative (for those times) intros ("Paper Back Writer")...

Lookin' back, they certainly raised the bar and cleared the way for the Stones, Kinks, Doors, Zeppelin, Yardbirds, Cream, etc..

I think back thru my journey in music from starting out playing a 3 piece drum kit usin' brushes on the snare doing 50s stuff (remember those days) to playin' Dylan music on an old acoustic in the 60s to a Tele by the end of the 60s and, and , and... I mean, music has definitely been evolutionary and there have been these bands/musicians who over the years are/were the steppin' stones to where we are now...

Sure, thanks to the Beatles the 60s had its fair share of stepping stones... As did the 70s... The 80s (IMHO), not so many but then another generation of musicians came along in the 90s to rescue us from disco/musac...

So, like them or not is a matter of personal choice... But no one can deny they impact they had on music... We really owe most of everything that came after to them...

Well, that's the way I see it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 03:39 AM

I remember being with my mom, driving on our way Christmas shopping in L.A., when the D.J., comes on, and announces a '..new group from England..'. My first thought was, "What do the British know about rock and roll?". Then, 'I Want to Hold Your Hand', came on. I thought it sounded pretty good, and considering they were Brits! a lot better than surf music, rehashed doo-wop, songs about cars, predictable blue based pop hits, and novelty songs.

Being as I already played both guitar, and piano, I was particularly interested in the SOUND and tonality of their guitars..quite different.
I even, 2 1/2 years later, went out and bought brand new, a 'Gretsch Country Gentleman' just like George's...by the way, a GREAT ax....but more guitar than I was ready for, at the time.

I think that no matter what style you play, The Beatles helped influence, or forwarded a wave, we all came in on, one way or another.

Through time I got tired of hearing their songs..once in a while one pops out sounding refreshing.
I was fortunate enough, when I had my recording studio, in L.A., that a guitarist gave me a copy of Beatle outtakes gleeped from Apple's vault, when they were breaking up. The songs were different, that the versions that made it to the radio, and some I prefer a LOT more than the commercially released ones. These were NOT the ones released as the latter albums, of 'unreleased'..these were rehearsal sessions...and some acoustic versions, that might even qualify as 'folk'. 'I'm Looking Through You' for instance, was acoustic, and the tempo different, and frankly, a lot better.

Like any musicians, some were better than others..some great..some not, some, just because it was them.

Years later, our son worked with McCartney(about4-5 years ago), and previously I did some stuff for Ringo, on a production..who would have thought?

Also, managed to get a signed 'Double Fantasy' from John, just shortly before his death. (signed: "John Lennon _'80"). It just sits in a plastic case with a lot of other stuff. (also got some early albums (vinyl) of theirs in Russian covers...said to worth a lot, and some Russian early Stones, and a couple of Russian McCartney, albums). All of them have never been played.

All that, and I'm still not exactly a Beatle Koo-koo....but some stuff is cool...some, not as cool. Big Deal!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: J-boy
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:04 AM

Whoa. You're pretty harsh mousethief. I love the Beatles but I don't understand why you feel the need to defend them with such vehemence. They certainly wouldn't.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 09:23 PM

Kendall: Take yeah, yeah yeah out of their songs and what is left?

This shows how many of them you know anything about. They've got yeah yeah yeah in exactly one song. Oh yeah oh yeah in another. Oh yeah (just once) in a couple more. 5 songs, maybe 6, out of over 200.

What I like about folk music is that it informs as well as entertains.

Oh yes, I learned so much from The Banks of the Ohio (people kill other people) and Foggy Foggy Dew (people do mysterious things that are wrong but don't say what they are). Need I go on?

If you never learned anything from rock music it must be because you stopped listening after the 6th Beatles song.

I understand not liking the Beatles. They did a few things and not everybody likes those things. But there's no need to employ nonsense to defend your position just because you think it's unpopular.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 04:32 PM

Well, not so much hate but just weary. I grew up in Liverpool when the Beatles were rising. They were everywhere: you couldn't escape the records, the photos, the books, the magazines, the articles, the cardboard cut outs, just about bloody everything. Guys in silly suits with sillier haircuts - all manufactured, designed to appeal to the record buying teenagers. Jolly tunes but the words were hardly significant to say the least. OK for screaming girls but proper men - like we aspired to be - were more into Kid Ory and Big Bill Broonzy at that time: these were men who been it, seen it and they could play not just plank slap. I'm sorry John Lennon was cut off before his time as he was developing into something worth listening to. Paul MacCarney is desperate to be taken seriously as an artist - witness the symphonies, the poems, the photographs, the paintings (I think)- but he just wrote some jolly tunes long ago and won't accept it until he has the Nobel Prize for something. He's humourless too if you read Private Eye.