The positive description of folk practic

Subject: RE: The positive description of folk practic
From: terrier
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 12:10 PM

Subject: RE: The positive description of folk practic
From: Will Fly - PM
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 10:15 AM

Fawkes pantos? Curious to know what they are, Conrad. Do you mean something akin to what I've described above, i.e. a show in a village hall, or something more participatory?

I'm aware that many of my US friends don't really know what a traditional panto is as we know it over here. :-)

OH NO WE DO

OH YES WE DON'T

That's weirdddddddddd

Subject: RE: The positive description of folk practic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 11:52 AM

They are clueless.

I have an on line collection of fawkes pantos transcribed from early scripts from Lord Chamberlain collection as well as from table top theatre.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The positive description of folk practic
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 10:15 AM

Fawkes pantos? Curious to know what they are, Conrad. Do you mean something akin to what I've described above, i.e. a show in a village hall, or something more participatory?

I'm aware that many of my US friends don't really know what a traditional panto is as we know it over here. :-)

Subject: RE: The positive description of folk practic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 10:11 AM

By the way- the more pantos the better. The USA should be a big market as they are unknown here. None in Baltimore some upper crust folk in Washington DC who wont lower themselves to come to our area or do the Fawkes pantos that I have worked so hard with.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The positive description of folk practic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 10:09 AM

There is some value of the wierd and strange perception. It brought folklorists to record remote places like Ireland - yes it draws curiosity seekers. Gawkers- audience but not so much participants.

It all depends on what you want to do. Remain small and die out or find a way to encourage others to take up the folk practices as part of a lifeway and grow the base for stronger preservation and development.

The growing tradition of tepid apple juice with a bit of cinnamon in serving as corporate and city center building and membership development wassail is harmless but it does not send the message that these are lifeways nor does it send people out to do it at home themselves or with neighbors.

I dont think it too hard or inconvenient to do both at the same time- entertain and develop seasonal celebrations as part of the lifeway.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The positive description of folk practic
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 10:07 AM

Forgot to say, by the way, that the panto is peppered with ancient folk phrases such as: "He's behind you!", "Oh no he isn't!" and "Oh yes he is!"

Subject: RE: The positive description of folk practic
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 10:03 AM

I'm doing the musical direction for a new year pantomime in my village at the moment. It's set in Ancient Rome (Pompeii) and has rock'n roll music from the 1950s; the Principal Boy is played by a girl; the Dame character is played by a local builder (with very hairy arms); the Dame's stupid son is being played by a girl and one of the comedy Roman Guard pair is also a girl. There's a lion who dances with the Principal Girl. The audience boos and hisses the villain at every opportunity; the cast do the conga, grabbing members of the audience as they dance past. All the potions - love potion - poison - forgetting potion - get mixed up - and chaos reigns.

How's that for a traditional English seasonal celebration? Weird or what?

Subject: RE: The positive description of folk practic
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 10:02 AM

Wassail to you two - Victorian or weird & strange? All good fun hey?

Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: The positive description of folk practic
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 09:58 AM

and paganism is a fairly recent religion.

So is Folk if it comes to that, but people have been around for a while anyway...

Subject: RE: The positive description of folk practic
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 09:54 AM

Ms/ Mr leveller, don't hide your light, aside with niceties, say what you really think, we need to know

L in C#

Subject: RE: The positive description of folk practic
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 09:48 AM

Who gives a shit? Weird comes from wyrd - the fates, and paganism is a fairly recent religion. Neither is a common description of folk music and anyone who can't be bothered to discover what folk music is really about is better off staying away.

You may be a freak show, Conrad, but my folky friends and I certainly aren't.

Subject: RE: The positive description of folk practic
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 09:26 AM

Intrestin, Conrad.

I guess we are all put off, and on, by any number of things. I can happily avoid pagan but if some folky things aren't weird or strange they might be dull. A mummers play that can get to the starting line of weird and or strange is to be avoided. Antobus Soulcakers very W & S.

9/8 jigs? More please, morris, sword or rapper in some small odd location possibly W & S. Massed morris in a stadium, no thanks

Cheers

L in C#

Subject: The positive description of folk practic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 09:13 AM

What is the consequence of describing folk practice, seasonal celebrations, wassails for example as "strange" "wierd" "unusual"
"Pagan"

I propose that describing folk practice in this way keeps people from taking part and keeps them from adopting folk practices as part of their lifeway.

Do a google news search of contemporary events- one from hereford got to me. Strange wierd....

The use of these terms scares many and those attracted are going to be curiosity seekers rather than those wishing to adopt the normal, historic, folk, practices as part of their lifeways.

The result of this is that people stay away and those who come think of it as a freak show rather than cultural lifeway or some commercial event to watch performers.

Using the word pagan has a like influence. Yes there may possibly be maybe perhaps some shred of pagan remnants but it is never as big as has been made out to be and there is generally little evidence supporting pagan links at all. Generally just an assumption.

So when something is so described how is a good christian practicing home going to react- they will distance themselves. When things were not so defined ordinary people embraced the customs without so much stigma.

They have been doing it for centuries.

Its not something you watch someone else perform its something you do yourselves and you have to put it in the ordinary category and get it out of the categories of weird or exceptional strange and particularly pagan.

Conrad