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Lyr Req: in an old Australian homestead /Suvla Bay

GUEST,kirstylaw 08 Jan 11 - 11:36 AM
oldhippie 08 Jan 11 - 12:26 PM
Steve Gardham 08 Jan 11 - 04:30 PM
Commander Crabbe 08 Jan 11 - 08:34 PM
Beer 08 Jan 11 - 11:49 PM
GUEST,Jim Moran 09 Jan 11 - 01:13 PM
Bob Bolton 09 Jan 11 - 05:08 PM
GUEST,kirstylaw 09 Jan 11 - 07:09 PM
Bob Bolton 09 Jan 11 - 09:48 PM
freda underhill 09 Jan 11 - 10:37 PM
Bob Bolton 09 Jan 11 - 11:27 PM
quokka 10 Jan 11 - 01:21 AM
Bob Bolton 10 Jan 11 - 06:27 PM
GUEST,Paul the stockman 11 Jan 11 - 12:44 AM
GUEST,Colin Holt 11 Jan 11 - 07:46 AM
Brian May 11 Jan 11 - 07:58 AM
Bob Bolton 11 Jan 11 - 05:25 PM
Paul the Stockman 11 Jan 11 - 11:30 PM
GUEST,kirstylaw 12 Jan 11 - 02:51 PM
JennieG 12 Jan 11 - 04:29 PM
quokka 12 Jan 11 - 11:08 PM
Paul the Stockman 13 Jan 11 - 01:06 AM
Jim Dixon 16 Jan 11 - 03:37 PM
Bob Bolton 16 Jan 11 - 05:26 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: GUEST,kirstylaw
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 11:36 AM

I've been talking to my granny about a song her mother used to sing her - she can only vaguely remember what its about and would know it if she heard it. I want to find it and sing it to her.

It's about someone going away to Australia and it's quite long. It is in English and possibly Scots and there is death in the end - i realise this probably doesn't narrow it down much however I would appreciate any suggestions. Gran will know the song as soon as she hears it.

Cheers
Kirsty Law


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: oldhippie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 12:26 PM

Possibly "Leaving Nancy O" by Eric Bogle.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:30 PM

Eric Bogle as old as someone's great grandmother. Hmmm!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 08:34 PM

Is this it?

BOTANY BAY

Farewell to old England forever
Farewell to my rum culls as well
Farewell to the well known Old Bailey
Where I used for to cut such a swell

Singing Tooral liooral liaddity
Singing Tooral liooral liay
Singing Tooral liooral liaddity
And we're bound for Botany Bay

There's the captain as is our commander
There's the bosun and all the ship's crew
There's the first and the second class passengers
Knows what we poor convicts go through

Taint leaving old England we cares about
Taint cos we mis-spells what we knows
But because all we light fingered gentry
Hops around with a log on our toes

These seven long years I've been serving now
And seven long more have to stay
All for bashing a bloke down our alley
And taking his ticker away

Oh had I the wings of a turtle dove
I'd soar on my pinions so high
Slap bang to the arms of my Polly love
And in her sweet presence I'd die

There are many versions of it but you can hear Kate Rusby's version here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSh4Sl8TrIs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSh4Sl8TrIs
CC


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: Beer
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 11:49 PM

A request like this I'm sure would be answered if you sent an e-mail to Eric Bogle or maybe even John Williamson.
Ad.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: GUEST,Jim Moran
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 01:13 PM

This is perhaps a long shot, because the song isn't that long - but the Irish version of "Wild Colonial Boy" has young Jack roaming to Australia and getting himself killed.

    There was a wild colonial boy,
    Jack Duggan was his name
    He was born and raised in Ireland,
    in a place called Castlemaine
    He was his father's only son,
    his mother's pride and joy
    And dearly did his parents love
    the wild colonial boy

    At the early age of sixteen years,
    he left his native home
    And to Australia's sunny shore,
    he was inclined to roam
    He robbed the rich, he helped the poor,
    he shot James MacEvoy
    A terror to Australia was
    the wild colonial boy

    One morning on the prairie,
    as Jack he rode along
    A-listening to the mocking bird,
    a-singing a cheerful song
    Up stepped a band of troopers:
    Kelly, Davis and Fitzroy
    They all set out to capture him,
    the wild colonial boy        

    Surrender now, Jack Duggan,
    for you see we're three to one
    Surrender in the Queen's high name,
    you are a plundering son
    Jack drew two pistols from his belt,
    he proudly waved them high
    I'll fight, but not surrender,
    said the wild colonial boy


    He fired a shot at Kelly,
    which brought him to the ground
    And turning round to Davis,
    he received a fatal wound
    A bullet pierced his proud young heart,
    from the pistol of Fitzroy
    And that was how they captured him,
    the wild colonial boy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 05:08 PM

G'day kirstylaw,

There were a lot of songs ... originating in England, Scotland, Ireland and (probably - ) Wales about people setting off (or being sent off) to Australia (often to "Botany Bay" ... despite the First Fleet taking one quick look at Botany Bay ... and scouting out a much better settlement site around what is now Sydney Harbour).

These might be about convicts, 'free-settlers', gold rush hopefuls or military types ... and many (especially the convict and gold rush categories) are laments for their death or death-bed regrets. A full compilation of this theme would end up as a big book!

The only way to trace a particular song would be to get a representative line ... or, at least a phrase or two from your Granny, otherwise it leads to the sort of pure guesswork we've seen in the posts above!

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone hel
From: GUEST,kirstylaw
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 07:09 PM

cheers bob, I figured that this is probably the case but thought i'd ask on a long shot. I tried to get her to remember a line from the song however she used to hear when she was really very wee, maybe about 6 or 7.

Thanks for the information and cheers to all who have responded. I am still going to continue looking. If its any help my granny's family were all from Leiths so that's where this version would have ended up. Would have been in about 1938 or there abouts.

Even though it is a long shot, I would still appreciate suggestions :)
Kirsty


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 09:48 PM

G'day again Kirsty,

I was rather afraid that not being able to garner even a good phrase might be the case!

Is there any family line that might have an Australian connection? If there were anything like that, it might aim us towards some area of songs ... but, for a pretty young country (as far as we white invaders go ...) we lay claim to a surprisingly large body of song.

The final volume of the late Ron Edwards' Index of Australian Folk Songs, admittedly does try to gtaher every identifiable version of every appropriate song - and is fairly open in that definition, but the full printed version (I work with a digital version loaded on my computer and machine-searchable) runs to roughly the same 20+ bound volumes as The Oxford Dictionary (which I also access from my computer-based version!).

Being over on this side of the globe ... I'm not too sure what connections might be suggested by your Granny's family all being from Leiths. What are the regional / trade / economic / 'emigration' implications?

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 10:37 PM

Kirsty, here's a link to get you started, you may recognise it if you follow the infos here:

Australian folk songs


good luck

freda


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 11:27 PM

G'day yet again kirstlaw,

The site freda has linked is a good coverage of the Australian end of the c. 1950s and on "Folk Revival".

I think we need to make a few educated guesses - particularly whether you granny would have been influenced by what was appearing on radio / record / TV in the ~ '60s and onwards ... or whether we are looking for something much older that had come down in the family. Such a song might have unique links at its UK (?) end ... and might not have caught the ear of the "revival', which, inevitably, was carried on the side currents of commercial music.

I'll scan through some of my old sets of Australian-published collections of the popular songs of the late 19th century. If I put up a file of 'first lines' from really old, Australian-themed, "weepies" of that era, there is just a chance that something might trigger a memory!

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: quokka
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 01:21 AM

Hi Kirsty, I'm assuming you have already looked at the well-known songs that people have suggested. I found one that I'd never heard of before in a book 'Folk Songs of Australia' by John Meredith and Hugh Anderson called "The Bright Shades of Blue"

We had sailed in a vessel from Britain's cold shore;
I was treated unkindly, great chains that I wore.
My cares they were many, my joys they were few -
I'd left all my joys in those bright shades of blue.

Fair land of beauty, Australia so true,
How I sigh for those mountains in the bright shades of blue.
How well I remember that darkie's old song
That we sang round the fire, a once happy throng.

We had sailed in a vessel for Britain's brave shore;
I was treated with kindness,great jewels I wore.
But my cares they were many, my joys they were few -
I'd left all my joys in those bright shades of blue.

Fair land of beauty, Australia so true,
How I sigh for those mountains in the bright shades of blue.
Now I'm old and I'm feeble and my locks they are grey,
And the nearest and dearest will soon fade away.

When I'm dead in my grave all I want you to do
Is plant me a gumtree from the bright shades of blue.
Fair land of beauty, Australia so true,
How I sigh for those mountains in the bright shades of blue.

The book says that this was sung by Cyril Ticehurst of Kogarah Bay (no date given) and Sally Sloane (born 1894 in Parkes).

Good luck with your search,

Regards

Quokka


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 06:27 PM

G'day yet again Kirsty,

My idea of looking through a few reprint albums covering the late 19th century favourites, as published in Australia, didn't really come up with anything distinctly Australian ... so the Australian field-collected body of work is where we need to look. Quokka's suggestion of Bright Shades of Blue is one from John Meredith's work I (... mentally ... ?) noted, before heading off to a Bush Music Club group practice for this weekend's Illawarra Folk Festival.

I'm daunted by the prospect of 'mining' the full Ron Edwards Australian Folk Songs Index for 'possibles' ... and I'm thinking of starting with the very large body of locally popular songs of Susan Colley of Durama (outskirts of Bathurst ... administrative area for the Ophir Goldfields ... the first Australian "Gold Rush") ... that I OCR-ed from the BMC's copy of the 1950s typescript. Because that is a single body - and searchable - I should be able to select just the good possibles ... and then reduce that to just:

TITLE
First verse, first line ...
... First verse, las\st line

for each item.

With a bit of selection, that might edit down to something small enough to post in this thread!

However ... it's not likely to happen until after this weekend's Illawarra Folk Festival!!!

Regard(les)s,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: GUEST,Paul the stockman
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 12:44 AM

Might possibly be "Mines of Australia" featuring the death of the "schoolmate"

VERSION 1 - Andy Saunders "Man of the Earth"

I sailed to the West with a schoolmate of mine
And together we shared the hard toil
It was hard times at home that caused us to roam
No work for the sons of the sod
So I bade me old father and mother goodbye,
And I said I'll not be long away
For ten years have passed fortune's favoured at last
And I'm leaving Australia today

Well I'm going back To my dear old home
That's far away over the sea
Right back to the scenes of my childhood
Where there'll be a welcome for me
Well many a year it has passed away
Since I left old England's shore
And may God speed the vessel that carries me back
To my dear old home once more

Well I sailed to the west
With a dear pal of mine
Each having a share in one claim
And taking bad luck as it came with the rest,
And working on just the same
When a cowardly blow struck my poor pal low,
Who struck him I never could tell
But the share of his gold placed close to my heart
For mother and dear sister Nell

(Repeat first verse)
note:- Andy definitely sings "sod" and not the rhyming "soil"


Kate and Ruth on "Swapping Seasons" CD uses this version but the second verse repeats and then the first verse and they do substitute "soil" for "sod".

VERSION 2 - Andy Saunders - Larrikin Sessions

It's ten years ago
Since I lest my old home
In the mines of Australia to toil
I bid me old father and mother adieu
Saying I shant be long away
But ten years have past fortune favoured at last
And I'm leaving Australia today

Well I'm going back To my dear old home
That's far away over the sea
Well back to the scenes of my childhood
Where there'll there be a welcome for me
Well many a year it has passed away
Since I left old England's shore
And may God speed the vessel that carries me back
To my dear old home once more

Well I sailed to the west
With a dear pal of mine
Each having a share in one claim
And taking bad luck as it came with the rest,
And working on just the same
When a cowardly blow struck my poor pal low,
Who struck him I never could tell
But the share of his gold placed close to my heart
For mother and dear sister Nell


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: GUEST,Colin Holt
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 07:46 AM

My favourite is by the late great Spike Milligan

Orstralia

Orstralia – Orstralia
We think of you each day
Orstralia – Orstralia
At work or at play.
We think of yew in the morning
And in the evening too
We even wake up at mid-night
So that we can think of you.
Orstralia – Orstralia
We love you from the heart
The kidney, the Liver and the giblets,
And every other part.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: Brian May
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 07:58 AM

Nice one Colin - typically Spike Milligan (still lamented)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 05:25 PM

G'day Paul the stockman,

Mines of Australia is another song very like what Kirstylaw is seeking ... although her Granny may not necessarily have learned her song from an actual Australian connection!

I don't remember that particular 'misreading' (sod vs soil) by Andy ... but several similar 'glitches do show up in the early 'Larrikin' recordings. I've always assumed some of these songs were recorded in minimum paid studio time - with a scrawled copy of the words in front of the soloist - and occasionally a misreading slipped through!

Chief Larrikin Warren Fahey (Mudcat's "Bodgie") might retain some faint recollection of Larrikin recording sessions he managed ... back then!

Regard(les)s,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: Paul the Stockman
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 11:30 PM

Hi Bob,
Although reportedly collected in Australia, I've often felt that "Mines of Australia" is English in origin. It's a poor fit as an Australian traditional - we Aussies would have to make some biting comment about the "new chum" and we would never have him going back home.
Paul


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone hel
From: GUEST,kirstylaw
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 02:51 PM

Hi everyone - thank you so much for all your help and suggestions. I have finally found the song i was looking for! My granny remembered the first line of the song which is 'In an old Australian homestead' - also the title of the song. It is a song from WWI which als has a version appropriated for WWII. However I have only been able to find a couple of verses to it and my granny remembers it being really quite long. If anyone knows the lyrics I would appreciate it if you could let me know where to find them :)

A' the best
Kirsty


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: JennieG
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 04:29 PM

Sounds to me like "Suvla Bay" - I know there has been at least one thread on this song. It has occasionally been a party piece of mine.

Cheers
JennieG


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Subject: Lyr Add: SUDA BAY
From: quokka
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 11:08 PM

1. In an old Australian homestead
With the roses round the door,
A girl received a letter,
Just newly from the war.
With her mother's arms around her
She gave way to sobs and sighs
For when she read that letter,
The tears came to her eyes.
Chorus: Why do I weep? Why do I sigh?
My love's asleep so far away.
He played his part that August day
And left my heart in Suda Bay.

2. She joined a band of nurses
Beneath the cross of red
And swore to do her duty
To the soldier who lay dead.
Many soldiers came to woo her
But were sadly turned away
As to them she told the story
Of the grave at Suda Bay.
Chorus:


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: Paul the Stockman
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 01:06 AM

Suvla Bay - yes, one from the "hillbilly" side. Done by lots of artists but most notably by Buddy Williams - a version that received a lot of radio play in the 1950s. But I have never heard the above World War two version which obviously references the desperate and hopeless Greek Campaign - "Say Crete and there is little more to tell of muddle tall as treachery, despair and black defeat ..." (from "The Tomb of Lt John Learmonth AIF" by John Streeter Manifold).
The World War I version refers to Suvla Bay (usually referred to now as Anzac Cove)and also refers to the month of April when the Gallipoli took place. ("in the hell that was Suvla Bay" from "And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda" by Eric Bogle)

Here's the WWI version

SUVLA BAY
In an old Australian homestead
With the roses 'round the door
A girl received a letter
'Twas a message from the war
With her mother's arms around her
She gave way to so-obs and sighs
And as she read this letter
The tears came to her eyes

Why do I weep, why do I pray
My love's asleep so far away
He played his part that April day
And now he sleeps... on Suvla Bay

She joined a band of sisters
On the little cross of red
To do her noble duty
To her lover who now lay dead
Many others came to woo her
But was sadly turned away
As she told them her sad story
Of her love on Suvla Bay

Why do I weep, why do I pray
My love's asleep so far away
He played his part that April day
And now he sleeps... on Suvla Bay...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 03:37 PM

See also these old threads on the same subject:

Lyr Add: Suvla Bay (Suda Bay) – Australian

Lyr Req: Suvla Bay

Lyr Req: sulva bay? / Suvla Bay / Suda Bay


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about australia - can anyone help?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 05:26 PM

G'day kirstylaw,

I glad to see that you got the right song (I have been away at the Illawarra Folk Festival, down at Slacky Flat). I was fearing that the song might have been one better known in UK than out here ... and not necessarily recorded by Australian folk lore researchers. However Suda Bay / Suvla Bay are songs well remembered by the generation of my parents ... and passed on down.

There are stories of the song being officially banned during the First World War, as being "contrary to public morale"! Presumably, we were supposd to be unaware of the fact that thousands of Allied troops were being killed, or badly wounded, every week!

Regards,

Bob


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