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BS: 'Toning it down'...
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Subject: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Bobert Date: 09 Jan 11 - 10:21 PM Well, here we are... We've just witnessed the first shooting of a federally elected congressperson since maybe Huey Long in the 30's and we are being told that what we need is to "tone it down"... Ya'll know how I feel but, at least for now, this thread is open for discussion/rants/bebates, etc... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: mousethief Date: 09 Jan 11 - 10:23 PM I'm willing to take back everything I ever said that implied that a Republican should be shot, if the Republicans will take back everything they have ever said that implied that Democrats should be shot. Ready? I'll go first. Okay, their turn. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Janie Date: 09 Jan 11 - 11:18 PM I happen to think it would be a terrific idea to "tone it down." |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: J-boy Date: 09 Jan 11 - 11:22 PM Excuse me for not giving a FLYING FUCK about politics. A wonderful nine year old girl was shot in the chest and killed. But of course we don't know which party she belonged to do we? |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Beer Date: 09 Jan 11 - 11:25 PM Right on J-boy. and Jane I also agree with you. ad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: J-boy Date: 09 Jan 11 - 11:35 PM Sorry for the outburst. I just know we need to find a better way. All of us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Beer Date: 09 Jan 11 - 11:40 PM J-boy you have nothing to be sorry for. Many are feeling exactly what you expressed. At least you had a way to express it. There are those who do not have this. ad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: katlaughing Date: 09 Jan 11 - 11:57 PM Me, too, Janie. Ranting and raving is not going to help any more. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Donuel Date: 10 Jan 11 - 12:40 AM Waking this morning was a sickening experience. I am sick from empathy. Mu body soul and mind are nauseated by the events. Tone it down is probably a double edged sword. I mentioned that it would be like stopping a super tanker with a quarter of the crew fighting to go full speed ahead. FOX news is actively fighting the notion of toning it down. Brit Hume is the spokesperson of this anti tone it down rhetoric. He reminded us that after the Oklahoma City bombing there was similar calls to censor language but it naturally and rightfully faded away. Juan Williams chimed in and said it would be a good idea to tone it down but he was poo pooed by the other talking heads. The absolutely WORST comment I heard on FOX came from Gretchen Carlson who said... "Ms. Giffords DID support tougher immigration laws BUT,,,she voted for Obamacare which explains why [she was shot in the head] ! You could physically see everyone getting yelled at in their little ear pieces to hurry up and change the subject when they all stammered as quickly as possible to change the subject in 3 different directions at once. I have in on dvr. Yes the sheriff Dubnik was eloquent in his rant against the dangerous white hot rhetoric and that people are going to have to do some soul searching. "Arizona has become the Mecca of hatred bigotry and predjudice" "I don't know a single public servant who has not received threats" Much of what he said will be repeated for years to come in much the same way that Rodney King's 4 words are still repeated. Hateful words and rumorous lies do have consequences. everyone already knows that. I am posting these words on our street corner. My flags are at half mast. Yes Kat I agree that aimless ranting doesn't help but it does heal a soul sick from the moment. Gabrielle should become a living martyr and be spoken of as often as possible. The alternative is silence where evil implies silence as consent. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Donuel Date: 10 Jan 11 - 12:49 AM The alternative is silence where evil assumes silence as consent. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: J-boy Date: 10 Jan 11 - 01:09 AM I could almost give up. "All you need is Love?" ,"Imagine?" Where has our idealism gone? I wouldn't care so much if you bloody baby boomers hadn't implanted these ideas in my head from infancy. Where's the goddamn revolution already? |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: J-boy Date: 10 Jan 11 - 01:15 AM Never mind. I'll go stand in the corner. I earned it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Ebbie Date: 10 Jan 11 - 03:17 AM sheesh When you called yourself 'jBoy you evidently meant it. I am too old to be a baby boomer- and you're too young to be one- when do we get blamed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Donuel Date: 10 Jan 11 - 03:43 AM The regular weekday right wing AM radio shock jocks started their response to toning it down at 3 in the morning today. The following was said at 3-4 Am on WMAL Washington DC "this is absolutely not the time to tone down anything including violence. In fact it is time to DOUBLE DOWN" "it is all the liberals who want YOU DEAD. THYE SAY someone wants to kill you. They want YOU DEAD. The left wants you to die. Robert Reich actually said "IF I were to speak as a candidate, we are not going to pay higher drug costs, we are going to go home to die." See he actually said he hopes you go home and die!" "Liberals want you to DIE! This crazy loner did not have to use a gun. He could have satisfied his delusions with his bare hands. So its not about guns. (I need to interject here that Jarred Loughner was not too crazy to legally buy a gun) This Loughner was a far left demented kid." "What are we to do? Maybe we should change the name of Target Stores. It is unconscienable for this sheriff in Arizona to play politics with the life of that poor little girl who was killed." ...................... As I expected AM radio is in fact going even farther into the dark side. You know if anyone tells me that toning it down is wrong I would ask them what is the cost of not threatening murder? What is lost by not telling people to go gunning at anyone in particular? WOuld the life of one more child not being killed by a crazy loner. Is a civil war or tea party revolution put in peril if preaching the value of murdering democrats? If nothing else you might just get the independents to listen to sense instead of turning away from sensless violence. ------------------------------- Although few people want to say it aloud, it is Barak Obama who is threatened with death talk on AM radio than any other person. More than bin Laden, more than anyone else. Is another assasination of a US president that important to you in particular? If so, you are beyond soul searching for what is good for America. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Steve Shaw Date: 10 Jan 11 - 04:54 AM The tenor of the UK reporting of this incident was that a congresswoman was badly injured and six other people were killed. We're used to this here. Typically, it's something like "One Briton hurt, 500 Indians killed in train crash in India." |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Donuel Date: 10 Jan 11 - 06:30 AM The Fox news mantra this morning is "a Mrs. roberts reported that this whacko kid is a pot smoking lefty liberal. That is not surprising." On Sunday Gretchen Carlson said that "COngresswoman Gillford did support spending cuts and Immigration reform BUT she voted for Obama care which explains why she was shot." As moustheif said, people of conscience will tone down their rhetoric, now its your turn. apparently the divide includes conscience haves and conscience have nots. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: saulgoldie Date: 10 Jan 11 - 06:59 AM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq38Nnf4pOw |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Donuel Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:19 AM D Congresswoman is submitting a bill to ban the semi automatic glock with extended magazines. Her husband was killed by a handgun on the aLong Island RR and her son was wounded. The assualt rifle ban expired in 1990. The Brady bill seems to have had no effect. The national gun trace facility is banned from having a national computerized data base. EVERY piece of information on gun ownership is all done by papers in card board boxes and file cabinets. The right will redouble thier efforts to deamonized the unameican leftys for trying to take their guns away. The record sale of guns and ammo over the last 2 years is a very real potential powder keg. Saul G the entire 2 hour Olbermann special is one of the best I have ever seen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Donuel Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:24 AM What can be done? How about requiring FOX NEWS segments, Clear Channel Radio shock jock shows, White Power Websites and similar patriotic bigoted sites, ... To REQUIRE A LABEL just like cigarretes, prescriptions, graphic TV shows or movies. This can be done with a interfaith religious panel, a FCC panel and a rotating independent advisory panel. I know this is a simple idea but it is one that can actually be done. It is easily understood and already a common practice in our society. Those that brag about fair and balanced will now have proof when it actually is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Donuel Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:37 AM edit the Clinton assualt rifle ban expired in 2004 |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Jeri Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:58 AM The rhetoric of hate, whether from the right, left or in between, can help some loosely-wrapped people unwind a bit more. It's ok to kill the enemy, isn't it? It's ok for cops to shoot bad guys and for you to kill someone invading your home or threatening you, isn't it? So if you see someone else as the enemy, the bad guy, or the invader you're justified in killing THEM, right? There are very few things I can say I hate in this world. Ironically, I hate hatred. I hate haters. If I can, I just avoid those people on Mudcat the way I avoid violent raving loonies on the street. And to Bobert, who started this thread, and some of the rest of the folks here: I don't believe that most rational people like hanging around with folks who are pissed off, and ranting, and belittling people. The ones who do are your fellow haters. You're scary. You portray yourselves in a way that makes you seem you have no love or kindness in your hearts. I've met some of you, and you don't seem like haters in Real Life. Is this the real you I've met, or is it the real you that comes out in the rhetoric? Anyone who might have wanted to sow seeds of hatred and anger in the American public has found fertile ground, and the shoots grow. If you want to put those sprouts in the sun and water them, well, it's your heart. I just wonder what you think you'll harvest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Greg F. Date: 10 Jan 11 - 10:04 AM So folks should not be angry that the spouters of the Right Wing River of Bullshit have aided and abetted murder. What should we be doing? linking hands and singing Kumbaya? |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Donuel Date: 10 Jan 11 - 10:08 AM To the credit of certain idologes here they have perhaps done some soul searching and have not said strident remarks that would amount to a total rejection of toning it down. On the other hand when Gretchen Carlson of FOX said "since Gifford voted for Obama care it goes to explain the attacks", my jaw dropped. Jeri, do you think that the sowing of hate seeds and over the top rhetoric, graphics and distortions is simply considered by some the means one uses to win? Winning at any cost is what the banks did. Winning at any cost is what the 2000 election was about. The concept of winning will need some soul searching as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Jeri Date: 10 Jan 11 - 10:23 AM If someone pushes, they EXPECT you to push back. If doing what those you don't like and being controlled that way makes you happy, have fun. There isn't only one way to react to anger--not just pushing back, not just hate on top of hate. If someone uses over the top rhetoric to win, do you really think doing the same in retaliation is the best way to fight? People are so conditioned to "fight fire with fire" that they can't see what the results will be. You can't fight lies with more lies, and you can't fight hate with more hate, and not expect any result but lies and hate. I understand anger, but I believe it's possible to ignore the impulse to knee-jerk into push-back mode, and think logically about what will IMPROVE situations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Donuel Date: 10 Jan 11 - 10:34 AM It sounds like the typical dillemma a resaonalbe guest on FOX faces when expressing any issue which is contrary to the conservative talking points of the day. They are shouted at. They are told they said somthing they didn;t. They are called names. They are subject to rolling eyes, open mouths, heavy sighs, laughter and general disrespect. When a "contrarian" gets angry the FOX host claims victory. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 10 Jan 11 - 11:46 AM We will understand all this a lot better when the tox screens (which take weeks) come back from the shooter. Of course, we may never get to hear about it for various reasons. People do not go out and kill strangers, whether are 9 or 79, because of rhetoric. They do it because their minds are ravaged, either naturally or by toxic substances. Alcohol, marijuana, PCP, crack ... Hell, there are new ones all the time. (Marijuana is changing to an even more destructive thing called 'skunk.') But the news doesn't want to talk about that because who wants to wait 6-8 weeks to get in on all the excitement? |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: pdq Date: 10 Jan 11 - 12:00 PM "People do not go out and kill strangers, whether are 9 or 79, because of rhetoric." Neither do they kill people they know due to rhetoric on TV or radio. Several sources on the web say that the Tucson shooter worked for Ms Giffords campaign at least once, maybe twice. He spoke to her before and knew what she claimed to stand for. This was probably a case of being dissapointed at your hero. Same thing happened to John Lennon. Drugs and mental problem are a bad mix too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Ed T Date: 10 Jan 11 - 12:20 PM Tone it down, turn it down, or tune it out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Greg F. Date: 10 Jan 11 - 12:30 PM People do not go out and kill strangers, whether are 9 or 79, because of rhetoric..... Neither do they kill people they know due to rhetoric on TV or radio. I think that some of the victims of Kristallnacht or Sobibor, Treblinka, etc. might disagree. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Jan 11 - 01:58 PM Probably said already, but 19th c. rhetoric much worse. Libel laws may have something to do with it. Chase down some of the speeches by Andrew Jackson and David Crockett. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Greg F. Date: 10 Jan 11 - 02:57 PM Yeah, Q, and quite a few people, Senators and Representatives included, ended up dead as a direct consequence of that shit- by gun, by knife, by cane & etc. One would like to think we've progressed somewhat as a society - or are you longing for the "good old days"? And if not, what's your point? |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: akenaton Date: 10 Jan 11 - 02:59 PM Sorry guys,.....I dont think there's any hope for you people, you're all fuckin' mad; and mad over a mirage, its just hate for hates sake, no rhyme nor reason. J boy has the right of it, the child is dead and what party did she support? Does it matter? ...No more than what Party YOU support! You all talk about toning down, then launch into a hate filled diatribe. I remember when Mrs Palin entered the VP race....I had never heard such hatred and vitriol.....not from Bobert, but from you nice easy middle of the road left leaning Dems....and now you have the gall to present a holier than thou attitude......Sheesh as they say. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Greg F. Date: 10 Jan 11 - 03:03 PM "The Child" is only ONE of the dead and wounded. Collateral damage, you might say- as the right wing sez about dead Iraqui civilians, etc. If you can produce an example of someone recommending a "second ammendment solution" to Palin or toting guns to one of her appearences to threaten her with, please do so, Pharoah- else shut the fuck up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: akenaton Date: 10 Jan 11 - 03:08 PM I happily shut the fuck up Greg, I suppose its none of my business, but maybe you should all do the same. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: GUEST,Neil D Date: 10 Jan 11 - 03:15 PM People do not go out and kill strangers, whether are 9 or 79, because of rhetoric..... Neither do they kill people they know due to rhetoric on TV or radio. Actually, that is exactly what happened in Rwanda. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Lox Date: 10 Jan 11 - 03:41 PM Neil, Spot on! Rwanda, Germany, Italy, Zimbabwe, etc etc etc. Not to mention the current video propaganda activities of Al Qaeda ... Here's the rub folks. This world is made of ideas. Money is the best example of an idea we depend on. It only exists in the abstract and because we agree it exists. When the credit crunch happened, we nearly stopped agreeing that it exists. Democracy, Fascism, liberalism, "liberalism" etc etc are all ideas. And our lives are defined by them. Here's the point. Ideas infect our minds and grow there. They compete for dominance and they drive our decision making and our actions. Forums like this, libraries, parliaments, debating chambers or even the pub, are where ordinary people exchange and share ideas. These ideas spread and take root in peoples minds. Thats why you can never take it for granted that people will behave normally or rationally, but you have to constantly oppose damaging ideas do all yu can to prevent them taking root and growing. The human race has evolved cerebrally above all and it is ideas that have got us where we are. The war of ideas is where the future of the human race stands or falls. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Lighter Date: 10 Jan 11 - 04:00 PM Regardless of the killer's thought processes, the harm in "toning it down" is what precisely? |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: akenaton Date: 10 Jan 11 - 04:09 PM Just remembered this song and this singer. Maybe you should listen to what y'all could be? I am a town |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Bobert Date: 10 Jan 11 - 04:38 PM Bullyin' is the strongest card the right has in it's hand and they are not going to give it up without a fight... They own most of the guns and want the left to know it... They have done almost all of the killin' over the last 4 decades... And they, not to sound inflammatory, understand the tactics of the Taliban all too well... There is only one area where we on the left have a level playin' field and that is here on the internet... I have been posting to various sites, even at NPR, and would suggest that folk(ies) here do the same... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: number 6 Date: 10 Jan 11 - 04:40 PM "toning it down" yup .... we have to. Bush invaded a country (Iraq)and started a war for revenge and it should be noted a majority of the population, Democrats and Republicans where emotionally and unanimously behind him on that .... that should be a lesson on "toning it down" . biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: GUEST,TIA Date: 10 Jan 11 - 05:44 PM "Democrats and Republicans where emotionally and unanimously behind him on that" Not true. Sorry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: number 6 Date: 10 Jan 11 - 05:54 PM you are correct TIA ... I am wrong. my apologies. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: pdq Date: 10 Jan 11 - 06:21 PM Perhaps this hate and anger is coming from the TOP. This is our "post-partisan" President... "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,"— Obama in July 2008 "I want you to argue with them and get in their face!"— Barack Obama, September 2008 "We're gonna punish our enemies and we're gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us."— Obama to Latinos, October 2010 "I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I'm angry!" Obama on ACORN Mobs, March 2010 "We talk to these folks… so I know whose ASS to kick." — Obama on the private sector, June 2010 "Argue with neighbors, Get in their face!," - President Barack Obama" "If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard," - President Barack Obama" "I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry."- President Barack Obama" "Punish your enemies"- President Barack Obama" "We talk to these folks…so I know whose ASS to kick." - President Barack Obama" "I'm itching for a fight." - President Barack Obama" "Hand-to-hand combat"- President Barack Obama" "A Republican majority in Congress would mean "hand-to-hand combat" on Capitol Hill for the next two years, threatening policies Democrats have enacted to stabilize the economy," — Obama, October 6, 2010 |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Lighter Date: 10 Jan 11 - 06:26 PM I'll repeat my previous question. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Lox Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:07 PM Any sources for those quotes pdq? |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Lox Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:08 PM (though I guess most of them are probably accurate) |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: John P Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:28 PM I too would like to repeat Lighter's question: Regardless of the killer's thought processes, the harm in "toning it down" is what precisely? |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Bobert Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:44 PM Don't worry about it, Lox... The right has hundreds of people scrambling to dig thru every conceivable thing that any leftist has ever said... I mean, hey, they have all the $$$$$$$ so they will dig and dig and dig and before they are done they will have Obama himself shooting the congresswoman... They will defend their 40 years of terrorism any way they can because it is all they have... Nuthin' else... Just terrorism!!! Not one fucking idea... Just terrorism!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: Bobert Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:47 PM BTW, Lox... If you want the sum total of the shit coming outta these hundreds of right wing researchers then read pdq... He is tied "right" into it and yer gonna get the very latest pile... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Toning it down'... From: pdq Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:53 PM The truth really bothers B-pert. Tough shit. |
