Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song

Subject: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Chastings
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 09:06 AM

I'm currently writing a dissertation entitled 'Sustaining traditional song in Dumfries and Galloway over the last three centuries'

I am hoping to find out about the various song collections from the area, and also about those who have collected song. I am also hoping to find out about various events/projects that have happened in the past and are happening now to allow traditional song to live on in Dumfriesshire. these include Dumfries folk club, Moniaive Folk Festival and Stravaig.

I would really appreciate any information that anyone has about where they know songs have been learned in the past (e.g. local smiddy, regular pub session) and also if there is anything they know of happening at the moment. Also if you know of any useful informants, or if you are from the area and singing tradtional song.

Cheers,

Claire

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 09:22 AM

Claire,

Off the top of my head.
MacMath's collection is archived somewhere in the region.

One of the early members of the Dumfries and Galloway Historical Society (may not be correct name) was very interested in ballads and wrote several articles for their journal, which I'd love to get hold of. I have the details somewhere but it would involve a search.

I did some research into the Child ballad 'John of Hazelgreen' and the only place I could find with a similar name, of any age, in the whole of Scotland was Hazley Green, a couple of miles from Newton Stewart and well within the range of the Garlies Stewarts. Someone on the spot might be able to find out more of this.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,Sue Allan
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 05:37 AM

You may be interested in this, from Traditional Song Forum minutes of meeting Feb 09, attended by Ali Burns:
Ali Burns is a music educator, based in Galloway and working with community choirs and doing workshops.She is trying to get more traditional material into the repertoire of the choirs she works with – less of a
problem in Scotland. Not many of the people in the 'natural voice' world teach traditional song. She has been
pillaging various archives, including the Baring-Gould archive, and has used many of them in her work She
talked about 'reconditioning' songs (though the idea of 'pre-loved songs' had been suggested to her). At
Kirkcudbright there is a collection made by Edward Hornel, one of the artists known as the 'Glasgow Boys',
He had bought up a number of books, including a number of scraps of music which interest her. She is also
continuing her work on William McMath, who worked with Francis Child, passing Scottish ballads to him over
30 years. He also made his own collection of other songs, which are of great interest. She is also working on
a performance based on material from Burns, for the Homecoming Year. She is also working on carols,
aiming to produce a collection of Scottish carols at the end of the year.
Her contact details: [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 07:03 AM

Rory McLeod has written a fine new song to the old tune "A Trip to Galloway"(which he discovered lurking on an obscure though not uninteresting CD by the Boat Band). It's on a new CD of songs written by various people about the Roman Wall. Can't remember details of the record, but if I can find any links I'll post them.It came out last autumn as a result of a Brampton Live project.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Chastings
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 07:53 AM

Thanks very much for your help, this is all very useful.

Claire

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Sue Allan
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 09:41 AM

The record Greg mentions was produced by Fellside Recordings:
VARIOUS: ALL ALONG THE WALL      FECD236
A group of five singer/songwriters and two poets were gathered in a house near to Hadrian's Wall and given the task of writing a cycle of songs and poems connected with the Wall. They laboured for six days and on the seventh they presented the songs in concert. This CD was recorded at that concert. The songwriters were Boo Hewerdine, Jez Lowe, Julie Matthews, Rory McLeod and Ruth Notman. The poets were Kate Fox and Elvis McGonagall. They were joined by instrumentalist Kate Bramley on fiddle.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 11:32 AM

My wife comes from the area - in fact down at the very end - Drummore. There were some songs being written by a milk tanker driver called Henry McCracken, he did one specially for our wedding!!

I seem to remember the librarian at Stranraer is a fiddle player.

And we met someone last year at Cullerslie Singing weekend who was looking for material. Not a huge amount in the School of Scottish Studies archives apparently.

Sorry this is a bit disjointed.

Dave

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,Auldtimer
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 11:40 AM

Have you been to www.tobaranduchais.co.uk/en

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:00 PM

I think the antiquarian Steve is trying to remember might have been Joseph Train FSA Scot.(1779-1852) an Ayrshire man who was an excise officer in Galloway, and who corresponded over a long period with Sir Walter Scott, providing him in particular with the character of 'Old Mortality' in the novel of that name.

There is a Memoir of Joseph Train, written by John Patterson in 1857, which is available to read in the Internet Archive, and which contains much information about Train's researches in Galloway and elsewhere.

There is a good article by Angus Fraser about Train in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, which you should be able to access online through most UK libraries.

I came across Train when looking for the source for "Ayrshire Lasses", which Train attributed to John Riddel "the best musician Scotland ever saw".

Train's early verse collection of songs and traditions from Carrick and Galloway was published in 1814 as Strains of the Mountain Muse.

Matthew

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:40 PM

Valentina Bold, who is based at University of Glasgow's Crichton Campus in Dundee, works with Phyllis and Billy Martin, two local singers from, I think, Newtownstewart, and may be able to give some pointers; unless you're doing one of her courses.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Anne Neilson
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 05:20 PM

Jo Miller -- from the area, and the first leader of the traditional music course at RSAMD -- collected songs from the Glenkens (?) district. She is now resident in Stirling.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Chastings
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 09:02 AM

Going to follow up Joseph Train. His name hasn't come up in my research so far! I am speaking with Valentina Bold on Monday, I know she has done a lot of similar research. I have already spoken with Phyllis and Billy, and am hoping to arrange a chat with Jo Miller sometime soon! All very valuable contacts to have.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Diva
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 09:51 AM

Off the top of my head ....McMath collection is in Kirkcubright but Valentina will keep you right on that one. There is a collection in the Archives in Dumfries that might be useful..Frank Miller (I think..he was a solicitor in Annan and was very intersted in ballads)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 04:54 PM

That's the one I referred to earlier, Frank Miller. Died in 1944.
His contributions on ballads were to the 'Transactions of the Dumfries and Galloway Natural History and Antiquarian Society'.

Relevant articles include:
The Ballad of Kinmont Willie Series II, Vol 23, p292
The Blacklock Mss at Annan          II      24   155
Allan Cunningham's Contributions to Cromek's 'Remains of Nithsdale and Galloway Song' (That one should be fun!)
                                     III    8    40
The MacMath Song and Ballad MS       III    12    88
Old Collection of Songs and Poems    III    16    10
The Mansfield Manuscript, an old Edinburgh Collection of Songs and Ballads                               III    19    54

If anyone has access to any of these I'd be interested to know what they contain.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 05:42 PM

Allan Cunningham's Contributions to Cromek's 'Remains of Nithsdale and Galloway Song'

They have a copy of that in Stranraer library (reference).

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 06:43 PM

Dave,
Do you mean the Miller article or Cromek? I have a copy of Cromek.

When are you coming over? I owe you, remember, and neither of our memories are that good!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Diva
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 12:08 PM

There is a possibility of a reprint of the Cromek one of my friends from that airt is involved.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 04:33 AM

V

I don't know if this is releavant but How about the ballad of Sawney Bean.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 04:37 AM

this has the words of the song "The Ballad of Sawney Bean" http://everything2.com/title/The+Ballad+of+Sawney+Bean

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Chastings
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 09:57 AM

So my dissertation has evolved! Although I am still going to use much of the research I have already done, I am going to focus more specifically on Dumfries Folksong Club. Does anyone have any info or personal experiences that would be useful? Thanks for your help.

Claire

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,jim b
Date: 19 Sep 11 - 01:52 PM

Hi- what about the two CDs recorded in Glentrool THIS YEAR of Galloway songs collected over the years by Phyllis Martin of Garlieston?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Sep 11 - 05:07 PM

Out of interest I went to see the Burns Unit earlier this year - Brilliant Band. Got together at a songwriting workshop in Dumfries and Galloway - May be worth asking them?
Dtg

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 19 Sep 11 - 07:35 PM

It may also be worth asking Emily Smith as she is from the area as well.

Emily Smith

Chris

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Sep 11 - 10:12 PM

I was also going to mention Phyllis Martin she did a great presentation on the songs of Dumfries and Galloway a year or 2 ago at the Fifesing weekend in Collessie.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,julia L
Date: 19 Sep 11 - 11:35 PM

Phyllis and Billy Martin are an essential resource for anyone interested in Dumfries and Galloway music. Susie Kelly is also an amazing well of knowledge. The Dumfries and Galloway Arts Council have sponsored a number of traditional music projects that might be helpful as well, including "Sang o' the Solway" which incorporated traditional music, poetry and original music.

Good Luck! Julia Lane

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,Folkiedave
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 03:35 AM

Didn't Willie Scott make his first 'public' appearance at Dumfries?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 05:58 PM

probably too late for your study, Chastings, but do you know that over the past five years there have been traditional music concerts at the tiny, remote Swallow Theatre, near Whithorn, south of Newton Stewart featuring Adam McNaughtan
                  Sheena Wellington
                  Hamish Moore
                  Sheena Wellington
                  Heather Heywood
                  Len Graham and Mick Quinn
                  Louis Killen
                  Johnny Handle & Chris Hendry
                  John Connolly
                  Hughie Jones
                  Sheila Stewart and Jess Smith
                  Margaret Bennett
                  Scott Gardiner, Steve Byrne & Carol Anderson
                  Joe Aitken and Geordie Murison...

to name a few, but for all the useless and happily defunct DGAA did or even knew about it, they might as well have been in China... they got £5000 Leader grant to promote traditional music in the area's pubs, and gave it to a Country Music festival in Creetown- also defunct- what a lot of money-wasting plonkers

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 15 Sep 13 - 02:38 PM

Maggie Gibson of Craigmath, Dalbeattie has a grand version of the ballad of 'Sawney Bean'- the cannibal- she'll probably be at Tenterden festival in a couple of weeks- she lives nearby these days...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 21 Dec 14 - 12:47 PM

There is some amazing stuff on www.tobarandualchais.co.uk where you can key in a county & hear traditional songs, music and chat from source singers. there is plenty from Galloway

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Dec 14 - 07:24 PM

MacMath's manuscripts were on microfilm at the University of Edinburgh when I needed to look at them a few years ago.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 03:35 PM

Time they were available on the net then!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 31 Dec 18 - 04:43 PM

I'm now back in Galloway after some happy years in Leitrim & Fermanagh.
Andrew Wilson of Beltie Books & Café in Wigtown is keen on the traditional culture of the region, and is promoting a monthly session of songs, tunes poems & stories on the last Friday of each month from 7-9pm.
The next one falls on Burns Night 25 January 2019- no charge- all welcome to listen or contribute. Jim

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 19 - 03:59 PM

and continuing 7-9 pm on the last Saturday each month- May 31 next one- all welcome to contribute....

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 May 19 - 05:16 AM

I have a friend up in that area that may be interested but I cannot find details on t'initerweb! Any links to these events?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 19 - 12:46 PM

No nothing on the web- word of mouth-bit old fashioned, isn't it?
             7pm till 9, every LAST friday in BELTIE books & cafe, WIGTOWN

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 May 19 - 02:51 PM

Thanks Guest - That'll do :-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 May 19 - 03:02 PM

Oh, apart from the first post says the last Saturday and the next says the last Friday :-( Seeing as the first post also says May 31, which is a Friday, I presume it is Fridays? Can you confirm please?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 05 May 19 - 03:20 PM

Yes, 'guest' got it wrong- post of 3 May has it right- FRIDAY 31 May

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 19 - 03:46 PM

Thanks Jim.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,Gallus Moll
Date: 05 May 19 - 07:16 PM

Probably too late for original poster - and perhaps not quite the correct area? But Jo Miller did a fair amount of collecting and researching of both traditional and contemporary songs composed in and about the local area
around St Johns Town of Dalry.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 12:13 PM

The short 7-9pm song/music session still happens in the Beltie Books cafe in Wigtown every last Friday of the month- Nov 29 is the next one & yes there will be a meeting on Dec 27th- no entry charge.

The November 29 session is followed on the St Andrews Day by a concert by Border piper Matt Seattle to be held in the Wigtown County Buildings, across the road from the Beltie bookshop/cafe- £5 - info on the Beltie FB site.....

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 11:59 AM

nice session in Beltie Books last Friday- songs, poetry (a great tribute to Clive James by David Sumner)- an excellent harpist, Matt Seattle on Border pipes & plenty of songs....
next one is as usual on the last Friday of the month, 27 December, from 7pm to 9... no Christmas Carols

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Dec 19 - 09:25 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 05:31 AM

Monthly last Friday session in Beltie Books, Wigtown will not happen this Friday 31st- bit of BURN(S)out- geddit?

Back as usual on Feb 28- I'll remind you!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 01:06 PM

Here I am, reminding you- 7pm to 9 in Beltie Books, Wigtown on Friday 28 Feb- singers & musicians & joke tellers welcome!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 08:47 AM

it's tonight      Jim

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 22 - 09:25 AM

Beltie session killed off by Covid

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 23 - 11:34 AM

Beltie books under new ownership - probably won't pick up again- people move on....

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Reinhard
Date: 22 Jan 23 - 02:03 PM

Gallus Moll wrote on 05 May 19:
Probably too late for original poster ...

Yes, by then Claire Hastings was an honours graduate of the Scottish Music degree at the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland, and she is an excellent Scottish folksinger, songwriter and ukulele player with a few beautiful albums under her belt.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dumfries & Galloway: Traditional song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 02:08 AM

I'll agree with that, Reinard. Claire Hastings performed for us on our trip to ethe Scottish Borders. She is a wonderful performer. Emily Smith performed for us another night - I believe the two are friends. And we got to hear Archie Fisher on the last night of our tour.