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BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)

Richard Bridge 15 Jan 11 - 11:42 AM
Bonzo3legs 15 Jan 11 - 11:58 AM
Fred McCormick 15 Jan 11 - 12:29 PM
greg stephens 15 Jan 11 - 01:49 PM
Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) 15 Jan 11 - 02:15 PM
Brian May 15 Jan 11 - 02:35 PM
GUEST,Silas 15 Jan 11 - 04:01 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 11 - 04:12 PM
akenaton 15 Jan 11 - 05:24 PM
Richard Bridge 15 Jan 11 - 05:41 PM
GUEST,Alan whittle 15 Jan 11 - 07:59 PM
akenaton 16 Jan 11 - 05:20 AM
SPB-Cooperator 16 Jan 11 - 05:55 AM
banjoman 16 Jan 11 - 06:18 AM
SPB-Cooperator 16 Jan 11 - 06:38 AM
Bonzo3legs 16 Jan 11 - 08:15 AM
Bonzo3legs 16 Jan 11 - 09:24 AM
Richard Bridge 16 Jan 11 - 12:15 PM
GUEST,Steamin' Willie 17 Jan 11 - 10:18 AM
Stu 17 Jan 11 - 11:15 AM
SPB-Cooperator 17 Jan 11 - 02:43 PM

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Subject: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 11:42 AM

Conservative vote approximately halved. Lib-Dems got the benefit of some of that but the Labour lead over the Lib-Dems increased from 103 at the annulled vote to over 3,000 despite Woollas's conviction of electoral misconduct.

Is it possible that the British electorate have seen the light?


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 11:58 AM

No, they just felt a bit Coronation Street!


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 12:29 PM

Labour's victory feels a bit like better the lesser of three evils than anything. For me the really good news was that the BNP did so badly. Knocked into 5th place, lost their deposit, and saw their share of the vote fall from 5.7% to 4.5%. And this in one of their supposed strongholds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 01:49 PM

Win win win situation. Labour won with an increased majority. We are on our way, brothers!!
Liberals hung on fine, despite the fact that total wipeout was heavily tipped.Phew, not bad eh!!
Conservatives craftily contrived that the Libs wouldn't be hammered by backing off, so the coalition wasn't crucified: in fact, it got more than 50% of the vote.Proves we are right!!
Handshakes all round, very agreeable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 02:15 PM

Ah but can Labour hold the seat ! They are pretty good at screwing things up for themselves.

The current austerity is the fault of the mess that the last Labour Government left behind. The Labour Government caused the train crash along with their over-spending that must now be rectified by massive public expenditure cuts.

Labour bailed out the banks without insisting on a guarantee of continued lending to businesses and homeowners.

At least we got shot of them. I have a lot of faith in our new government. Keep up the good work chaps.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: Brian May
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 02:35 PM

Simply a protest vote - well deserved protest mind you, but not overly significant.

Yes it is interesting that the BNP got such a low vote, but protest was probably to the fore in peoples' minds.

Turnout was also lower than last time.

I don't think Labour can take much comfort from it - come on, it's them that contributed to Britain being in this shambles. I don't think peoples' memories are THAT short.

So who COULD people vote for - it had to be Labour. Devil and Deep Blue situation really.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 04:01 PM

I that even the dimmest of people can grasp what happened here with the Tory/Lib vote.
Great result for Labour though. Pity the poor Lib/Dems


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 04:12 PM

I don't think Labour can take much comfort from it - come on, it's them that contributed to Britain being in this shambles. I don't think peoples' memories are THAT short.

So nothing to do with Thatcher destroying our industrial base (note lack of recession in Germany) and deregulating the banks? I s'pose some of us have shorter memories than others....


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 05:24 PM

Regulate the banks? dont be fuckin' stupid.
The banks can do exactly as they please, "the Banks" are the system and as such are untouchable.

Remember before the election, how the lying bastards told us they were going to squeeze Bankers bonuses?
These "iron" politicians are now shown as being completely unable to effect any kind of change; which makes Party Politics obsolete!

Just watch as our public services are attacked, wages and jobs disappear, inflation takes off,the rich get richer and the poor starve. Not because of strikes, militants,or bogey men, but because we are uncompetitive in the global marketplace.

Capitalism?....time to bury the corpse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 05:41 PM

Yes, Diamond may not have helped the current mob by sticking two fingers up at them.

The recession can be blamed on many things. Lawyers are debating the contribution of the system of precedent to the separation of risk from reward. But the failure to tax banks under B.Liar and Brown can squarely be laid on "New" Labour keeping its electoral promises not to raise direct taxation.

How surprising to hear the present mob saying that promises SHOULD have been broken. Surely they were all in favour of Brown pussyfooting around banks while he was chancellor and/or PM because the banks were then their mates. And now after a bit of tough talking they are still their mates "Nothing has been taken off the table" indeed. We know what that means. The Con-dems will do squat about the banks and the banks will keep stealing from you and me.

Like Thatcher used a recession to smash the working class and to re-introduce subservience to commands, now Condomhead creates a double-dip recession by taking money out of the economy - mostly from the working class. We know who HE has his sights on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: GUEST,Alan whittle
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 07:59 PM

I don't really understand why the tories fielded a candidate. their votes combined with the lib dems would have beat labour - some coalition, they are still competing with each other.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 05:20 AM

Hah......someone has spotted the difference, we live in a "democracy dontya know".....and we have to go through the motions when we are allowed to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 05:55 AM

"Labour bailed out the banks without insisting on a guarantee of continued lending to businesses and homeowners."

Labour bailed out people dependant on the banks to receive their pensions, get their wages, pay their rent/mortgage repayments, pay their direct debits and standing orders.

It is all very individuals being within their overdraft limits, but also the banks need the liquidity to cover day-to-day transactions.

We saw what happened with Northern Rock - they didn't have the cash reserves to cover the consolidated outgoing - or to be more precise the customers didn't have the confidence in the bank - result - a run, therefore cash reserves go down further, the current liabilities can no longer be met by inter-bank borrowing, therefore account frozen.

Also a knock on effect - other banks lose day-to-day inward cashflow from Northern Rock.

Then the same is about to happen to the bigger banks - HBOS, RSB, Lloydstsb. - Now we are talking about massive number of account holders. The banks are approaching the limit of reserves and inter-bank trading. If nothing is done, then millions of bank accounts would get frozen. - i.e. miilions of people/businesses do not have access to their accounts.

Then comes the domino effect as the banking industry is inter-dependant, so one big bank brings down the next, etc.

Result - the only cash availble is the money in peoples pockets.

So - was the government right to take decisive action to prevent this happening, or should it has sorted out the terms and conditons first and hope that in the meantime the eocnomy doesn't go into total meltdown?


Now take the bigger banks -


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: banjoman
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 06:18 AM

It really does Piss me off when I hear people blame the Labour Government for the current economic crisis. Lets get it straight - It was the Bankers who caused the problems thro their greed and arrogance. Yes it was the Labour Government that had to bail them out and I do have some reservation as to how that was done. Lets put the blame where it really belongs - At the door of the banks and their greedy (Tory) directors who are still milking us dry with excessive bonuses etc. It would not surprise me if we were to see serious civil unrest over the next year as people find it harder and harder to make ends meet. I have recently seen the price of diesel rise by 4p per litre in the space of 10 minutes at a local garage, and expect similar in the shops soon.

I actually voted LIB Dem but did not vote to put this lot into power and the quicker they go the better for everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 06:38 AM

Anonymous guest who shouldn't be posting here?

(1) Of the jobs filled, how many are central-government public sector jobs, i.e. appointed by the government?

(2) How many miilions (your headline figure) is 900,000?

(3) Why does the private sector employ 'foreign' workers - and does your term 'foreign' include BMER British citizen which I would guess you object to?

(4) Does your statistical date come from the Daily Mail or the spokespersons of a nasty right wing group that calls itself a political party?

(5) Surely a far bigger factor leading to unemployment of the manufacturing sector is exploiting cheap/slave labour in developing countries to get a bigger profit margin? If you haven't got a job, have you considered applying for a job in third world sweatshop?


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 08:15 AM

One good thing going for Oldham is the Blue Coat School, an exemplar it seems of the educational system.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 09:24 AM

Win win win situation. Labour won with an increased majority. We are on our way, brothers!!


Yes of course you are.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20110116/tpl-ed-miliband-struggles-at-head-of-lab-5b839a9.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 12:15 PM

Aunt Sally? And who is shying at it? Is Nathalie Auriol the accredited Agence France Presse journalist of that name?

Fielding (cited in Auriol's speech) has indeed written widely on the labour party, but perhaps his perspective can be gained by looking at his 2010 paper "Labour's campaign - things can only get worse" and the curious choice of statistics to apply.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 10:18 AM

What did the by election tell the parties?

Absolutely nothing.

Good of Manchester council to announce the huge redundancies next door to Oldham just in time to get it in peoples' minds at the ballot box. I personally doubt that it was an influence for most people, although the lib dems reckon it was. Just sour grapes to me.

What it did do, in an area of high unemployment and most decent wage earners being in the public sector, (Dir Public Health report, 2008-9,) was indicate that the coalition partners have not made as many enemies as you would expect. Labour and the fringe parties would have walked it between them if the government was held in the low esteem some commentators would have you think.

I am not a supporter of the coalition and think Osborne is taking a gamble on the private sector's ability to find employment for lots and lots of public sector workers. I also have a view that pump priming the economy can be a good gamble if managed well, so I am not in tune with present Whitehall thinking, but two things spring to mind, and I wonder how many in the by election thought similar?

1. Is there a credible alternative yet?

2. Is it possible to like the destination whilst having issues with the chosen journey?


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: Stu
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 11:15 AM

"Is it possible to like the destination whilst having issues with the chosen journey?"

in the case of an entire society, it's only a journey if everyone is on the train and willing to endure the hardships together. Unfortunately, we know a certain part of society is copping our of paying their fair share and taking some pain whilst continuing to blame everyone else. Time for tax-dodging rich gits and bankers to pay up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oldham by-election (UK politics)
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 02:43 PM

"I am not a supporter of the coalition and think Osborne is taking a gamble on the private sector's ability to find employment for lots and lots of public sector workers."

It is a big gamble, as firstly we are yet to see the knock-on effect where the private sector loses substantial revenue from public sector contracts, and secondly, if private sector enterprises do manage to expand, there is no regulatory system to ensure that the workforce expansion will be in UK, but outsourced overseas.

That is in part driven by price sensitivity in the textile and consumer goods market.

My fear is that any economic recovery that happens in the future will largely profit capitalists, and the rich/poor divide will become greater over the next 5-10 years irrespective of who wins th enext general election.


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Mudcat time: 9 April 2:27 PM EDT

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