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Any 12 string players

GUEST,Bluesman James 28 Jan 11 - 09:51 AM
maeve 28 Jan 11 - 10:01 AM
mauvepink 28 Jan 11 - 10:09 AM
GUEST,Bluesman James 28 Jan 11 - 10:17 AM
Brian May 28 Jan 11 - 10:39 AM
GUEST,Bluesman James 28 Jan 11 - 10:59 AM
Midchuck 28 Jan 11 - 11:02 AM
GUEST,jeff 28 Jan 11 - 11:16 AM
GUEST,Bluesman james - Apollo 28 Jan 11 - 11:58 AM
maeve 28 Jan 11 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,I want to join 28 Jan 11 - 12:58 PM
alex s 28 Jan 11 - 01:10 PM
maeve 28 Jan 11 - 01:11 PM
Dan Schatz 28 Jan 11 - 02:03 PM
Roger in Baltimore 28 Jan 11 - 02:21 PM
GUEST,Bluesman James 28 Jan 11 - 02:57 PM
GUEST 28 Jan 11 - 03:50 PM
skarpi 28 Jan 11 - 04:18 PM
GUEST,Bluesman James 28 Jan 11 - 05:05 PM
GUEST,jeff 28 Jan 11 - 10:37 PM
Brian May 29 Jan 11 - 06:38 AM
banjoman 29 Jan 11 - 06:42 AM
Tangledwood 29 Jan 11 - 05:55 PM
GUEST,JimP 29 Jan 11 - 06:01 PM
Richard Bridge 29 Jan 11 - 06:41 PM
GUEST,bankley 29 Jan 11 - 08:16 PM
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Subject: Any 12 string players
From: GUEST,Bluesman James
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 09:51 AM

Greetings everyone:
I would like to know if there are any 12 string players out there. I was thinking if we can share experiences and instruments and knowledge

http://www.12stringguitar.com/
This site was taken over by a new group. It was originally the property of Jerry Loggins - great singer and 12 string player from Tehachapi, CA
known for railroads and windmills and great 12 string players.
I currently play an Aria which is an intermediate instrument. I am looking to change instruments; possibly a Seagull coastal model
I have played the new Guilds and find them prohibitively expensive
and they are now made in China which I have issues with
The Taylors are nice but too brilliant for my sound and style. I am a blues based player influenced by Leadbelly and Robert Jr Lockwood with some Latin and West African mixed in for good measure.
My friend/bluesman and facebook fan Frank Fotusky
play an instrument called Fraulini (Paul Germia plays one also) They are modern replicas of the Stella guitars played by Leadbelly, Barbeque Bob and Blind Willie McTell http://www.fraulini.com/index.php
They are quite expensive around the $3,000. price range.

I wold love to hear what other people are playing and their experiences and styles and how their necks are holding up.
Thank you one and all and my gratitude to the folks at mudcat for keeping this forum active.


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: maeve
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 10:01 AM

Lots of commentary to be found in this thread: Any serious 12 strings players left?

There are many other 12 string threads in addition to this one. Keep posting and I reckon others will join you. I had an Apollonio 12 string laud for a while and I've played Kendall Morse's Apollonio some.

Maeve


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: mauvepink
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 10:09 AM

Of my 5 guitars, two of them are 12's

A 1968 vintage EKO Ranger 12-string (recently renovated and as good as new) and a much more recent Takamine EG523-SC12 Jumbo with cutaway.

The EKO is so sweet a sound but never loud when played unplugged. The Takamine has enough sound for large rooms unplugged and a wonderful preamp that gives brilliant results through a sound system.

I play the Takamine most as it is quite versatile but I love my EKO as she and I were first introduced when I was still at school!

mp


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: GUEST,Bluesman James
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 10:17 AM

Vince Martin (of the Tarriers and Martin and Neil) played this instrument called a "Miguel" He was Cuban Luthier who made these instruments Fred Neil and Bob Gibson played them as well. anybody heard of them


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: Brian May
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 10:39 AM

I play a Martin D12-28 (28 because I dislike bling on guitars).

I bought mine second hand for about half the normal UK price. It was unmarked.

I stuck Martin Marquis 10-48 strings on it and it's without any doubt, the best 12 string I've ever played.

The action is good, volume and tone are excellent. I've now tuned it down a full tone to get more bassy bass - it's fun too.

I know they're a lot of money, but once more, the old adage applies 'you get what you pay for'.

Well recommended.


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: GUEST,Bluesman James
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 10:59 AM

Thank you Brian: I have heard the neck on Martin 12's are not that strong and they warp. That is not your experience?


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: Midchuck
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 11:02 AM

You probably want to read this thread.

Peter


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 11:16 AM

Takamine 'Logo Era'. From when the Takimine logo looked so much like the CF Martin logo Martin had to sue them to change it. It sounds great and has one of the old Takamine transducers that soundpeople LOVE. Solid mahogany top and laminate sides and back. The laminate doesn't seem to hurt the tone any. Had 2 Breedlove tensioners installed as the top was beginning to buckle. It sounds great miked or plugged.


Btw, when I played w/Bob Gibson in Chicago in the late 70s he was using a Bozo exclusively though I don't doubt he used a 'Miguel' as well. They were available before the embargo started in '59.


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: GUEST,Bluesman james - Apollo
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 11:58 AM

Is Nick Apolo- still making instruments His 12 string strings sound fascinating


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: maeve
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 12:38 PM

Bluesman James- You'll need to use exactly the same name each time you post on Mudcat. Even better, become a member. It's free to join, and allows us to send you helpful information privately.

Click here for Nick Apollonio's Facebook page.

And welcome to Mudcat!


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: GUEST,I want to join
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 12:58 PM

I get emails but when I log in , it rejects my password. I guess I need assistance
    Message is from BluesmanJames. I got him fixed up. -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: alex s
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 01:10 PM

Guest jeff, I also have a Takamine "Logo" which has done 30 years hard slog in a ceilidh band and is still going strong - it's easier to play than many 6 string guitars, as some of my students have been amazed to find out. It's in standard with light Elixir strings. Terrific plugged in.
I also have a (we think) 1960's Harmony 12, tuned a full tone down as it has no truss rod - the neck is chunky but very playable and it sounds great.


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: maeve
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 01:11 PM

Bluesman, James, send an email to joe@mudcat.org. Put Mudcat membership in the subject box. Let us know if you need help after that.

Maeve


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 02:03 PM

Is Nick Apollonio still making guitars? YES! And they get better and better. They are the best 12s in the world, and the price is almost embarrassingly reasonable. I find that my cherry and Cedar Apollonio 12, which I keep tuned 4 frets below normal, works wonderfully for blues, as well as just about anything else. Nick builds them with a doubly adjustable neck - the standard truss rod adjustment for neck curvature and an east angle adjustment so you can adjust tension to your playing style and climate conditions without going through an expensive setup or neck reset. The latter takes about 30 seconds.

He'll make one for you custom, and he has different sizes and shapes to choose from. And you'll still spend less than you would have on a Taylor or a Martin, for a MUCH better instrument.

You can find him at his Facebook page above or e-mail him at:
guittern [AT] gmail [DOT] com , replacing the [AT] and [DOT] with the appropriate symbols.

Dan


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 02:21 PM

James,

My first 12 string was a 1967 Guild. I bought it in 1992. I loved it, but it was stolen several years back. When I decided to buy a 12 string, I went to every music store I could and tried out their stock. I bought the Guild, used, because it had lost no quality and was much cheaper than the new ones I had liked. However, the most important factor was that it matched the 12 string sound that I carried around in my head. I bought a Sigma to replace it, because that was all I could afford at the time. It was just OK, playable, but no impressive sound. Later I was introduced by an Acoustic Guitar article to guitars built by Michael Hauver. He had a specialty of trying to recreate the old Stella sound of Barbecue Bob and Lead Belly. His web site is Hauverguitars.com. He also was within driving distance of my house, so I could face-to-face with him.

I bought his Barbecue Bob model. I keep it tuned down to C on the big bass string. I had him cut the nut to fit the string sizes that Lead Belly used. Sometimes I drop it down to B or Bb. Since that guitar, I also bought a Taylor 12 string. Part of my decision was it was so damn purty with a bright red sunburst finish over Maple. It also sounds very pleasing, but it sings more than it barks.

I have been on this site for decades, and I first came to it looking for the String gauges that Lead Belly used. Having looked many places without success, this site brought me the truth. I have been on it ever since.

I would recommend trying lots of guitars and I strongly suggest looking at used models; a used model of a good guitar tends to get better (seldom worse) with age. If it is not a premier model, it will probaly be cheaper than a new model by a third or better. Good Luck in your hunt.

Roger in Baltimore (from somewhere in Virginia)


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: GUEST,Bluesman James
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 02:57 PM

Roger in Baltimore: I have not played the Fraulini but I have heard others (notably Paul Germia and Frank Fotosky) and they sound incredible. Paul could play a cat 5 cable strung from the ceiling and make great music
http://www.fraulini.com/index.php Frank is doing a gig at the Good Coffeehouse in Brooklyn. He promised he could let me try one out
Speaking of 12 string players. Here is a great one Ndala Kasheba from
Tanzania
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH5VRCEoNOg Here is his promo video form limitless sky records. He was an incredible musician. he is playing a Seagull Coastal Seagulls are incredible instruments for the price. Monsieur Godin is still based in Quebec and he tries to use local wood and talent and has no plans to relocate He deserves support for his ethics and commitment


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 03:50 PM

The late Ndala Kasheba great 12 string player
Here is the link


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: skarpi
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 04:18 PM

jabb , Taylor 12 strings ...:O)


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: GUEST,Bluesman James
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 05:05 PM

Thank you guest One of these days I will master the intricacy of posting links


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 10:37 PM

alex s,

Yes, those 'logo era' 12s have a magic all their own. Don't know what type if transducer Tak used in those days, but they rival anything produced nowadays. I had both a Guild F-5 and a D12-35 at points in my life, but had to sell them both. :-(

It's my intent this year to add a Joe Mills mic to mine as I'm going to tour and my 6 string is set up the same way. The sound is AMAZING. Would like to be able to use an A/B switch to a Boss line tuner to a passive di to the board. Simple and effective.


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: Brian May
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 06:38 AM

To answer the question about the Martin D12-28.

Neck warping . . . it's amazing how many times stories like this get peddled around.

No, no such issues, nor have I heard of any from those that actually OWN one or another model of Martin 12 string.

Also, something that actually DOES go wrong with the odd Martin is similar to B17 - B24 air gunners in WWII. One Messerschmitt is shot down and 40 gunners claim it as theirs. So problems with any Martin tend to be exaggerated many-fold. Everyone suddenly knows 'someone' who had one and it went disastrously wrong . . .

So what I'm saying is, Martins are NOT perfect, BUT you don't get a reputation like theirs if the product doesn't do 'what it says on the can'. They are wonderful instruments and (in my opinion) worth every penny/cent or whatever.

I own two other Martins (6 strings), so I trusted them enough to drive 100 miles up the road, stay in a hotel overnight, just to play this instrument to see if I liked it. Fact is, it's exceeded my wildest expectations. It's beautiful.

If you give me your email address in a PM, I'll send you a link so you can hear for yourself. I apologise in advance for the expression on my face when I play the guitar, I'd never seen myself playing before and was looking in the monitor on the camera.


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: banjoman
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 06:42 AM

Hi I have played 12 stringers for years (as well as banjos). I started with a Stella which needed super human finger pressure to play but made me learn. Unfortunatley it was lost in a fire. I have owned several Japanese 12 strings but in recent years have owned a couple of Washburns which I think a very underated as they have proved to be fine guitars which are very playable and hold their tune well. Current one I paid about £400 for a year ago and its action is actually lower than my Taylor 6string which is a beautiful guitar. The 12 string lends itself to certain venues very well and I use it a lot in the church where we play on a regular basis.


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: Tangledwood
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 05:55 PM

Japanese Hohner 12 string here. I usually leave it in DADGAD tuning but don't get to play it anywhere near enough.


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: GUEST,JimP
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 06:01 PM

I've also got an old Martin-copy Takamine 12. I absolutely love it, and wouldn't part with it for the world. In fact, I was cruising craigslist last night and saw that someone has another one up for sale in my area, and I began to wonder if one was enough. (grin)


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 06:41 PM

Action is a matter between you, the guitar, and the guitar fettler, so long as the table is stable (if not fit bridge doctor) and no neck set is needed, and the frets are OK. If yours is too high, get it sorted.

The late Pete Hicks (Slats of this parish) played a Washburn 12 string, and it was very loud (although he had fingers like hydraulic rams and played 13-56s - I kid you not) but a little coarse and middy.


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Subject: RE: Any 12 string players
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 08:16 PM

I have a Sigma 12 which I picked up a few years back for $150...
I was playing some jazz on it today... interesting sound for those 9ths and Aug. 11ths


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