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What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!

DigiTrad:
BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY
BOTTLE OF WINE
DAILY NEWS
FOREST LAWN
GOODMAN AND SCHWERNER AND CHANEY
I CAN'T HELP BUT WONDER WHERE I'M BOUND
JIMMY NEWMAN
MARVELOUS TOY
OUT OF LUCK, OUT ON ANOTHER HIGHWAY
RAMBLIN' BOY
SULLY'S PAIL
WHAT DID YOU LEARN IN SCHOOL TODAY
WILLING CONSCRIPT


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Stringsinger 28 Jan 11 - 05:46 PM
Charley Noble 28 Jan 11 - 09:31 PM
Anne Neilson 29 Jan 11 - 03:24 AM
bradfordian 29 Jan 11 - 07:23 AM
bobad 29 Jan 11 - 07:43 AM
Taconicus 29 Jan 11 - 09:57 AM
topical tom 29 Jan 11 - 10:02 AM
Desert Dancer 29 Jan 11 - 11:07 AM
GUEST 29 Jan 11 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,Gealt. 29 Jan 11 - 12:46 PM
GUEST 30 Jan 11 - 12:22 AM
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stallion 30 Jan 11 - 05:48 AM
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DMcG 30 Jan 11 - 11:20 AM
Jeri 30 Jan 11 - 12:12 PM
Amos 30 Jan 11 - 12:45 PM
Jeri 30 Jan 11 - 01:48 PM
Lonesome EJ 30 Jan 11 - 01:55 PM
J-boy 31 Jan 11 - 12:24 AM
J-boy 31 Jan 11 - 12:59 AM
Ebbie 31 Jan 11 - 02:58 AM
Newport Boy 31 Jan 11 - 10:56 AM
Wesley S 31 Jan 11 - 11:20 AM
Lonesome EJ 31 Jan 11 - 11:31 AM
Oremus 31 Jan 11 - 05:44 PM
Tattie Bogle 31 Jan 11 - 06:10 PM
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Subject: Review: No Matter What--Paxton does is again!
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 05:46 PM

Tom does it again! Our great songwriting troubadour is once again
doing what a folksinger is supposed to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7VXxZgpK3U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7VXxZgpK3U


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Subject: RE: Review: No Matter What--Paxton does is again!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 09:31 PM

Excellent!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Review: No Matter What--Paxton does is again!
From: Anne Neilson
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 03:24 AM

Thank you so much for that -- a very necessary clarification of all the arguments.


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Subject: RE: Review: No Matter What--Paxton does is again!
From: bradfordian
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 07:23 AM

This is one that needs more prominance. Hope we can put the word around. Very singable. Hope to hear it in the folk clubs and other places soon


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Subject: RE: Review: No Matter What--Paxton does is again!
From: bobad
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 07:43 AM

Good "topical" message there, one not likely to be espoused by those who think that more guns is the solution -- I'm up with Tom's message.


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Subject: RE: Review: No Matter What--Paxton does it again!
From: Taconicus
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 09:57 AM

Well gee, what if no one had hands, nails, or teeth, and we were all roly-poly teletubbies living in a padded wall world with no beasties or sharp edges. Then we'd all be safe, by golly!

Typical fat-headed simple-minded solution pontificating "folk song."


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Subject: RE: Review: No Matter What--Paxton does it again!
From: topical tom
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 10:02 AM

Class this one under "Songs That Need to be Sung".Who better to do so than Tom, who has "preached "this lesson for so many years.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 11:07 AM

Here it is with lyrics from Tom Paxton's web site. Perhaps a clone could just go ahead and delete the other lyric sets here...

http://www.tompaxton.com/video_what_if.html

WHAT IF, NO MATTER...
By Tom Paxton

What if, no matter how angry he was,
How outraged he was,
How furious he was,
What if, no matter how angry he was,
He couldn't lay hands on a gun,
He couldn't lay hands on a gun?

What if, no matter how right he was,
How wrong they were,
How evil they were,
What if, no matter how right he was,
He couldn't lay hands on a gun,
He couldn't lay hands on a gun?

No rifle, no pistol,
No shotgun in sight,
No revolver, automatic,
No assault gun tonight,
No clips crammed with bullets
Anywhere to be found,
No weapons just laying around?

What if, no matter how outraged he was,
How furious he was,
How murderous he was,
What if, no matter how outraged he was,
He couldn't lay hands on a gun,
He couldn't lay hands on a gun.

If he dug through his pickup,
The back seat, the trunk,
The attic, the basement,
And piles of old junk,
And came up empty-handed,
Again and again,
Tell me, what would he do then?

What if, no matter how angry he was,
How outraged he was,
How furious he was,
What if, no matter how angry he was,
He couldn't lay hands on a gun,
He couldn't lay hands on a gun?

©2011 Pax Music, ASCAP


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 12:42 PM

The first & only time I saw Tom Paxton performing live was in the Royal Albert Hall c1966.
He was supporting The Dubliers who were at their height. I thought he
was great then & I have not changed my mind since.
By the way, the compere was the actor John Gregson (1919-1975) known to British & Irish audiences for the movie 'Rooney' & also the role of Commander Gideon, Scotland Yard.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: GUEST,Gealt.
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 12:46 PM

re Albert Hall concert I forgot to add my moniker.
I remain, Gealt.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 12:22 AM

If he couldn't lay hands on a gun, he'd probably use a guitar, like this guy:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/915829/Charge-is-filed-in-death-by-guitar-beating.html

Maybe there should be a three-day waiting period and a background check for hopelessly clueless "folksingers" who want to buy a Martin, especially the Paxton signature model.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: stallion
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 03:16 AM

I think Jeri and Taciwhatsit,that the message might be if weapons were harder to find the time searching might cool tempers, there will always be nutters but easy access makes people blase(?)about the things. It would be interesting to the stats on injuries a deaths due to accidental discharge and mistaken identities (humans for bears) whilst our family were farmers for years and reared animals for slaughter I have issues with killing things you can't eat for pleasure. I have a friend who's late father shot pheasants and gave them to us because he didn't like pheasant, on the other hand when the hunters were duck shooting on our land my father stopped them as soon as they had a bird each (before freezers and fridges....uk!)he claimed it was his larder, better live than dead. i remember a visiting canadian relative, also a farmer, telling us that his most important job on the farm was to paint in large letters C O W on the side of his beasts before the hunting season began!


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 05:14 AM

This is all fanciful thinking. Even if guns were more difficult to get, he could lay hands on a pipe bomb, Molotov cocktail, or just drive a truck into the crowd. Guns could be flat-out illegal, and I think a determined wannabe mass murderer could still find one.

That's true enough, but its not as straightforward as that. If the intention is merely mass murder, that argument holds. But there are lots of other circumstances where the emotional/psychological position of power over the each individual victim seems to have been important and those weapons don't do that. I'd put Columbine in that group, for example.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: stallion
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 05:48 AM

excellent point


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: Oremus
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 11:14 AM

[i]That's true enough, but its not as straightforward as that. If the intention is merely mass murder, that argument holds. But there are lots of other circumstances where the emotional/psychological position of power over the each individual victim seems to have been important and those weapons don't do that. I'd put Columbine in that group, for example.[/i]

Armchair pop-psych aside, there are countless instances in which bombs of varying type have been used as the weapon of choice in assassinating specific individuals.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 11:20 AM

I quite agree, Oremus, but that's again a slightly different case. That's an attack against an individual, not a series of perhaps a dozen attacks against a dozen individuals by one person over a period of minutes, which is the pattern for Columbine/Dunblane/Port Arthur ...

In any case, the song is, in my view, less about the mass murder cases, than individual acts between one or two people.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 12:12 PM

Stalliwhatsit, my point is that it wasn't a spur-of-the-moment decision on the part of Loughner, nor of the Columbine shooters. These guys PLANNED. Loughner did research. They didn't just wake up one morning and think "Gee--I guess I'll kill some people today. Now, I KNOW I got a gun here somewhere..."

They, HE, had the time to get a gun if he didn't just happen to have one in his back seat, and he had the time to make a bomb.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 12:45 PM

Jaysus, guys--c'mon! It is a rhetorical question driven under a poetic license!! It makes a clear, simple point.


A


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 01:48 PM

Sorry Amos, poetic license only works for me when it doesn't look like someone had plowed his rhetorical question into the concrete abutment of reality. In short, it doesn't make sense to me. I understand it DOES make sense to others, and they can believe what their senses and brains lead them to believe.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 01:55 PM

"He's still got an axe in the barn" might also work as a last line. Again, the issue is much more complicated than Paxton's song, but I give him credit for provoking discussion with it.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: J-boy
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 12:24 AM

I'm not advocating the banning of guns but a 30 round magazine in a semi-auto Glock is very far from what our founding fathers could have even imagined. They lived in the age of flintlocks. Draw your own conclusions.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: J-boy
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 12:59 AM

I'm a gun-owner for what it's worth.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 02:58 AM

Here is what he says about it:

The Latest Song

As I slowly became aware of the tragedy in Tucson, once again I felt a deep anger and disgust at the sheer senselessness of it all. Still, I thought, I'm not going to try to write anything about this because I'd probably just go incoherent. So, no song, I thought; then, a question kept coming up in my head––not for the first time––and I finally decided that it was a song unto itself, What If, No Matter ...
Peace,
Tom Paxton
Alexandria, VA
Jan 26, 2011


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: Newport Boy
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 10:56 AM

And it's a topic which Tom has always addressed - see his 1965 'Buy a gun for your son' on the Pete Seeger programme.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: Wesley S
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 11:20 AM

That's one of the great things about Tom Paxton. He can take an issue and boil it down to a 2 or 3 minute song that says volumes. That's why he's one of the greats. Thanks Tom.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 11:31 AM

J-boy, I agree with you. I'm saying Paxton's song is less a brilliant summation and distillation of the gun control argument, and more an emotional reaction. But good music works primarily on an emotional level, and that's what generally stimulates reasonable discussion and action. On this topic, however, we in the US may be incapable of taking a reasonable approach. The argument generally breaks down between "you'll get my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands", and "guns are evil."


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: Oremus
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 05:44 PM

"But good music works primarily on an emotional level, and that's what generally stimulates reasonable discussion and action."

I think you have it exactly wrong. With subjects like gun rights, "reasonable discussion and action" can only happen by taking emotion OUT of the equation. Screeds such as Paxton spews in the song at hand tend to inflame rather than inform. Luckily, his audience is relatively small.


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Subject: RE: What If, No Matter--Paxton does it again!
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 06:10 PM

Much as I love TP and his music, I don't think this is one of his best songs. "Buy a Gun for your Son" (slightly different context maybe) was much more powerful IMHO.
There was an outcry in Scotland when some folk wrote songs after the Hamilton shootings at Dunblane. The only one that worked was Eric Bogle's "One Small Star" - which doesn't mention guns at all.


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