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BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb

GUEST,Ralphie 04 Feb 11 - 02:48 AM
GUEST,padgett 04 Feb 11 - 03:53 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 04 Feb 11 - 04:53 AM
GUEST,henryp 04 Feb 11 - 11:34 AM
Surreysinger 04 Feb 11 - 12:17 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 04 Feb 11 - 05:01 PM
NormanD 04 Feb 11 - 06:17 PM
Surreysinger 04 Feb 11 - 08:48 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 05 Feb 11 - 01:12 AM
GUEST,folkiedave 05 Feb 11 - 03:18 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 05 Feb 11 - 03:37 AM
Surreysinger 05 Feb 11 - 04:05 AM
Surreysinger 05 Feb 11 - 04:07 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 05 Feb 11 - 04:44 AM
Ruth Archer 05 Feb 11 - 05:35 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 05 Feb 11 - 07:49 AM
Bainbo 07 Feb 11 - 01:35 PM
Cath 07 Feb 11 - 02:00 PM
Bainbo 07 Feb 11 - 02:46 PM
Mrs.Duck 07 Feb 11 - 02:56 PM
Dave Sutherland 07 Feb 11 - 03:23 PM
Linda Kelly 07 Feb 11 - 05:39 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 08 Feb 11 - 03:24 AM
Silas 08 Feb 11 - 04:17 AM
theleveller 08 Feb 11 - 04:28 AM
r.padgett 08 Feb 11 - 04:30 AM
GUEST,le cheffie 08 Feb 11 - 04:35 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 08 Feb 11 - 05:52 AM
GUEST,matt milton 08 Feb 11 - 06:01 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 08 Feb 11 - 07:04 AM
GUEST,LDT 08 Feb 11 - 07:07 AM
Nigel Parsons 08 Feb 11 - 07:51 AM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 08 Feb 11 - 07:59 AM
GUEST, topsie 08 Feb 11 - 08:08 AM
evansakes 08 Feb 11 - 08:24 AM
GUEST,LDT 08 Feb 11 - 08:28 AM
r.padgett 08 Feb 11 - 08:48 AM
Manitas_at_home 08 Feb 11 - 08:48 AM
GUEST,chris cole 08 Feb 11 - 09:07 AM
Silas 08 Feb 11 - 09:10 AM
Silas 08 Feb 11 - 09:10 AM
Surreysinger 08 Feb 11 - 09:27 AM
GUEST, topsie 08 Feb 11 - 09:43 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Feb 11 - 09:51 AM
alex s 08 Feb 11 - 10:16 AM
TopcatBanjo 08 Feb 11 - 12:45 PM
evansakes 08 Feb 11 - 01:05 PM
GUEST,jims 08 Feb 11 - 01:28 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 08 Feb 11 - 01:50 PM
brezhnev 08 Feb 11 - 02:44 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Feb 11 - 03:03 PM
GUEST,S.T.M. 08 Feb 11 - 03:59 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Feb 11 - 05:53 PM
GUEST,folkiedave 08 Feb 11 - 06:19 PM
Noreen 08 Feb 11 - 07:27 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Feb 11 - 07:56 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 09 Feb 11 - 04:00 AM
GUEST,Mike Rogers 09 Feb 11 - 04:31 AM
evansakes 09 Feb 11 - 04:49 AM
GUEST,matt milton 09 Feb 11 - 05:29 AM
GUEST,matt milton 09 Feb 11 - 05:50 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Feb 11 - 06:40 AM
GUEST,JM 09 Feb 11 - 06:41 AM
brezhnev 09 Feb 11 - 07:14 AM
acegardener 09 Feb 11 - 07:49 AM
GUEST,Arti 09 Feb 11 - 08:02 AM
brezhnev 09 Feb 11 - 08:30 AM
Silas 09 Feb 11 - 08:41 AM
melodeonboy 09 Feb 11 - 09:08 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Feb 11 - 09:33 AM
GUEST,punfolkrocker 09 Feb 11 - 09:34 AM
RTim 09 Feb 11 - 09:45 AM
GUEST,steve th 09 Feb 11 - 09:47 AM
GUEST,henryp 09 Feb 11 - 09:55 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Feb 11 - 10:10 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Feb 11 - 10:17 AM
GUEST 09 Feb 11 - 10:27 AM
melodeonboy 09 Feb 11 - 10:36 AM
GUEST,S.T.M. 09 Feb 11 - 12:03 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Feb 11 - 12:08 PM
GUEST,S.T.M. 09 Feb 11 - 12:30 PM
s&r 09 Feb 11 - 06:22 PM
GUEST,mulv 09 Feb 11 - 09:57 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 10 Feb 11 - 06:06 AM
s&r 10 Feb 11 - 04:39 PM
s&r 10 Feb 11 - 04:42 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 10 Feb 11 - 04:51 PM
s&r 11 Feb 11 - 04:20 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 11 Feb 11 - 05:57 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 11 Feb 11 - 07:03 AM
s&r 11 Feb 11 - 08:44 AM
s&r 11 Feb 11 - 08:46 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 11 Feb 11 - 08:59 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 11 Feb 11 - 09:06 AM
s&r 11 Feb 11 - 12:33 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 11 Feb 11 - 01:03 PM
fat B****rd 11 Feb 11 - 03:45 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 11 Feb 11 - 04:46 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 12 Feb 11 - 10:52 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 12 Feb 11 - 11:51 AM
Surreysinger 12 Feb 11 - 08:28 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 13 Feb 11 - 12:53 PM
Surreysinger 13 Feb 11 - 01:23 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 14 Feb 11 - 01:37 AM
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Subject: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 02:48 AM

Just a little reminder that the BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards is happening Live on Monday evening 7th Feb.
The save Folkwaves campaign (against the abolition of Mick Peat and Lester Simpsons long running programme in the East Midlands) will be there to petition the great and the good! Oh, and maybe play some tunes and sing some songs!
The venue is
The Brewery
Chiswell Street London
EC1Y 4SD
(nearest tube Moorgate.)
It would be lovely to see people there.
The irony is that Lester Simpson, sacked two months ago, is up for an award with Coope Boyes and Simpson! And will be performing live on the Simon Mayo programme, also from the same venue! just before the award ceremony...
Also, there will be our friends from the campaign on Radio London to re-instate "A World In London" dedicated to the myriad musics in our Capital city...(DJ Ritu took over the programme after the untimely demise of Charlie Gillett, and has been replaced by 2 X Factor wannabees who don't even live in London!)
So, come one, come all, bring voices, and instruments.
Hope it doesn't rain too much though!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 03:53 AM

If I have this right its on the telly red button BBC from 5pm onwards on Monday!

Simon Mayo folloed by Mike Harding, should be interesting

Ray


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 04:53 AM

Hi Padgett. Hadn't heard about the Red Button bit....? Didn't think TV were covering it at all. That hasn't happened for years! I don't think the Beeb would spend money on the Folk Awards.
Surely they'd rather spend money on Strictly....etc...etc...
Anyway, If it's true, I'll do an I Player next day, as I will be standing outside the venue on Monday!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 11:34 AM

"On Monday 7 February, for the first time, the Folk Awards will be broadcast live on Radio 2 following a special edition of Simon Mayo's Drivetime which will also be broadcast live from the event from 1700 - 1945.

From 1945 - 2200 you can listen live to the Folk Awards ceremony as it happens or watch the whole event online or on digital TV by pressing the Red Button. Video highlights will also be available here and via the Red Button the following day."

At a national level, the BBC obviously considers that there is an audience for folk music, and folk dance too. There is a different opinion at local level. Stuart Thomas, Head of Regional and Local Programmes, BBC East Midlands, wrote to me to say;

"We feel we now need to provide a programme that appeals to a wider number of licence fee payers in the East Midlands, especially as there are no longer any local or regional programmes available on commercial radio in the evenings...

While I know some of these programmes also had a healthy following with listeners like yourself on the internet, my first responsibility has to be to the majority of licence fee payers in the East Midlands, and it was with them in mind that we are making this change."

I am sure he will be willing to announce the number of listeners attracted by the new programme to demonstrate that he was right.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Surreysinger
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 12:17 PM

Ralphie - it would be good if you could put the rough timings to be up there on here. I gather that the suggestion was to get there by at least 5.30 (although I do wonder if that might be just slightly late in view of the programme timings?)... but what I haven't been able to work out so far is exactly how long it's going to go on for (nobody has yet answered my question). If the intention is for it to go on until the awards actually finish to meet the outgoing attenders, then it might be worth coming up after my one and only work shift of the week finishes. (I don't relish the idea of taking the trek up to London to find that everybody has scarpered, and there was no point!)


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 05:01 PM

Hi Irene.
I'll be there mid afternoon....Have taken delivery of loads of flyers! So, will hopefully get to the great and the good as they arrive for soundchecks. The charabanc from Derby and points north, probably won't get there until 1800ish, but representatives from AWIL are planning on getting there ealier...so, hopefully I won't be too lonely!
I'm sure that people will stay for the whole event....Think about it..You've schlepped all the way from Derby?! Why not stay for the evening?
And there is a pub close by.
Apart from the obvious reason for being there, It's a great chance to meet other protesters as well. Have spoken with the people behind A World In London, who are planning to pop down, to show support, which is lovely! All for one, and one for the pot!
Lester Simpson for a Lifetime achievement award!!!! (Unlikely!)


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: NormanD
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 06:17 PM

Quote: "Have spoken with the people behind A World In London, who are planning to pop down, to show support, which is lovely!"

Solidarity forever!

The closure of BBC London's AWIL means that there is now no community-focused music programme in London at all - London being a city of a couple of hundred languages, all with related music.

The shutting down of folk and roots progs across the BBC networks is an effing disgrace.

Let's make noise - let's hope it gets heard.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Surreysinger
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 08:48 PM

Thanks for that Ralphie. If that's the case then I'll see if I can manage to get up there - solidarity (and one for the pot) and all that! If I do, I'll bring the camera.

Well done on the recording of the Feedback programme. If anyone is interested in hearing the BBC "justification" from Stuart Thomas, and Chris Sweeney's eloquent questioning of him then you can do no better than listen to Ralphie's recording link here


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 01:12 AM

As far as I can work it out. Mondays running order is as follows.
soundchecks start at 1400 with Bellowhead, etc. Simon Mayors show comes live from th venue between 1700-1900 (inc a Live set from Coope Boyes and Simpson! how ironic is that.)
Then the awards from 1945-2200. I'm aiming to get there about 1500. Please pop by! I'm 6 foot 4 grey hair, big nose! You can't miss me!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 03:18 AM

It is true. You will find him very difficult to miss.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 03:37 AM

Watch it Dave!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 04:05 AM

Nah - I reckon he needs to wear something to distinguish him - red carnation, bowler hat, furled umbrella perhaps - and make him stand out from the crowd. Hmm, on second thoughts, he may already do that ?
(After all someone with 6'4" long hair just has to be distinctive, doncha think?)


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 04:07 AM

PS Better remember to take a trannie with you to listen to the live broadcast maybe. (That's transistor radio of course, not transvestite).


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 04:44 AM

I've actually got a Big Umbrella with BBC written all over it! Might be too much to carry though!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 05:35 AM

The reception starts at 6pm. I should imagine most of the invited guests will start turning up just before that.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 07:49 AM

Hi There sweetie! Expect to be leafleted then!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Bainbo
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 01:35 PM

How's the leafleting going? Despite the weather, I hope you're having more fun than I am listening to the awards "preview" on Radio 2. Folk stereotypes confirmed - I can almost hear people switching off in their thousands.

I don't know why this should be - Simon Mayo is one of the few presenters I enjoy listening to. And Barbara Dickson came over well, but with a new album of traditional songs, she chose to play the only original one, and (in my opinion) not the best vehicle for her voice. Fairport Convention - a band still gigging, but they play the rather plodding Si Tu Dois Partir that must be - what, 40 years old? Very representative.

And Donovan. Oh dear. An embarrassment both luvvie-speaking and performing.

What a programme to present to a national audience.

Best bit was the "jingles" performed by Coope Boyes and Simpson. Ironic?

They haven't mentioned the demo yet.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Cath
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 02:00 PM

In my view Donovan was never as good as he thought he was and still isn't!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Bainbo
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 02:46 PM

I take back (some of) my previous comments. They were obviously trying to ease listeners in.

I turned off to have tea, then turned back on and heard Coope Boyes and Simpson, Kris Drever, Chris While and Julie Matthews, Emily Pportman, and remarkable Young Folk entrants whose name I didn't catch. And an acknowledgement that there was unrest over Donovan's award.

If I wasn't already a folkie, that would have turned me!

(Stilll haven't heard them mention the demo.)


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 02:56 PM

It's great that it is being put on tv too but what a pity it has to be on the red button as I suspect only those who are already fans will press. I'll enjoy it none the less.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 03:23 PM

And the award for the biggest gobshite is...........(the presenters, not the nominees)


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 05:39 PM

Weird choice of presenters Tamsin Greig was appalling Joanne Trollope couldnt have been more patronising if she had tried, Roger Daltry had morphed into Hugh Grant but was at least coherent. Generally good result. Absolutely chuffed to bits that Ewan Mclennan won because if you know his stuff it is incredibly well deserved and he is one of the nicest blokes I know. Hollow Point was the worthy winner. Donovan??? do me a favour!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 03:24 AM

Had great fun leafletting the great and not so great last night!
Did a bit of networking with various BBC people, and journos. No, Folkwaves wasn't mentioned, didn't really expect it to be, but still worthwhile doing it, and thanks to the World in London campaigners for turning up to show their support.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Silas
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 04:17 AM

Tamsin Greig.

I bet she is feeling a bit of a tit this morning - what a performance - dire.

Overall, a good show though.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 04:28 AM

Glad to hear Ewan McLennan won - well deserved.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: r.padgett
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 04:30 AM

I loved every minute of it, even all the babes in arms!

Too many to mention everyone so diverse too is "Folk" Chris Wood seems like a nice lad and met Joan Armatrading ~ who was the other chap he got an award from?

Lots of celebs inb the audience too and Fisherman's Friends look a great bunch of down to earth folkies

Bellowhead ~ well of course and lots of talent

So how the hell did the BBC Radio Derby protest fair, I really am sorry that I watch on the "Red" button, NO NO well done to you!
Ray


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,le cheffie
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 04:35 AM

Over all i thought the presenters spent too long talking drivel,. If their time had been cut there may have been more time for live acts.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 05:52 AM

The Bewilderingly Broad Church Folk Awards: let's all Americanise our music, back Fabio Capello, and go for a curry!

There'll always be an England (our traditions are just that strong), and (unlike the Scots) we don't need an "English Folk Awards".

Or, with distinctions for anthropology, http://davidfranks.blogspot.com/p/messages.html


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 06:01 AM

oddly enough I think I enjoyed the presentations and acceptance speeches much more than the music I heard. But then Alasdair Roberts was the only nominated music that I actually enjoy. I thought Tamsin Grieg was quite funny actually


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 07:04 AM

Well, unlike WAV, I was there, Leafletting on behalf of the Folkwaves campaign, (with our good friends from the Radio London campaign to re-instate "A World In London" ....can you turn those bloody Djembes down from 11!)
The event was predictably what it always is, but none the worse for that.
Was well pleased with the well deserved awards distributed though.
Andy Cutting, Chris Wood, with an astonishing performance of "Hollow Point" and Eliza Carthy, accepting the award on behalf of her seriously ill Mum, with baby on stage...
It's all still available for UK viewers on the Red Button, (If you've gone digital!)
And listen again on BBC IPlayer, for the next 7 days.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 07:07 AM

She did turn into her character from black books....the Bill Bailey comment just reminded me of the outtakes and commentary on the series DVD's.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 07:51 AM

WAV:
There'll always be an England (our traditions are just that strong), and (unlike the Scots) we don't need an "English Folk Awards".

I didn't realise that the Scots needed an "English Folk Awards" either


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 07:59 AM

I `ad that Simon Mayo in my cab last night. I was taking `im to the station from that BBC Folk Awards bunfight. `e looked very pleased with `imself.
`e said, "Evening Jim. Did you `ear the programme tonight?"
I said, "Well Simes, I `eard your bit on "Drivetime"".
`e said, "Whadya reckon then?"
I said, "You oughta get out more Simes. All that twaddle about bringing "folk music" to a popular audience and the codswallop about learning the notes on a guitar and sticking bits of paper `ere, there and everywhere. No mention of books about music and being taught. They were `aving a laugh, they done you up like a kipper".
`e said, "Blimey Jim. I thought they all did it that way!!"

Whaddam I Like??


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 08:08 AM

"She did turn into her character from black books...."

Well she couldn't have turned into her character from The Archers, because she looks nothing like her.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: evansakes
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 08:24 AM

Lovely tweet last night from Martin Simpson...

"I didn't know Donovan invented Celtic Rock as well"


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 08:28 AM

@topsie never listened to the archers so couldn't comment. ;)


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: r.padgett
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 08:48 AM

Well!!

It isnt all available on the RED button as play back!

True the prog was 2 hrs plus on the live TV red button, however a LOT of editing down to actual performances (select) only lost a LOT of the ambience and feel of a LIVE event ~ a pity I thought and if THEY had thought about this before the winners could have had a better show of their talents

Maybe this will pave the way for MORE televised FOLK from English singers (including the Scots lad now based in Leeds)

There area lot of great singers and musicians out there


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 08:48 AM

I didn't know Celtic Music had already been invented in Donovan's heyday.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,chris cole
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 09:07 AM

The award should have gone to Richard Thompson


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Silas
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 09:10 AM

The award should have gone to someone, anyone, who has made a significant impact on UK folk music.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Silas
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 09:10 AM

That guy from Fishermens freinds made the best acceptance speech I have ever heard - ever!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Surreysinger
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 09:27 AM

The awards should go to both Norma and Mike Waterson IMHO - far more significant for Folk (proper) than Donovan or, indeed the Levellers. Richard Thompson got one a few years ago, didn't he?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 09:43 AM

Yes, 2006


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 09:51 AM

The award presenters were generally a bit wordy but they tried valiantly in front of an audience that (to this telly viewer anyway) appeared to have undergone a mass sense of humour bypass before being allowed in. There were some rather tenuous links to folk music there... You'd think that, of all genres, it would have been possible to have a lot more live music in that huge great long show. A curate's egg, with Donovan undoubtedly the mummy chicken's arse.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: alex s
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 10:16 AM

That bloke from Bellowhead who kept butting in during the acceptance speech gets my my Tit of the Show vote. Pissed or what.......?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: TopcatBanjo
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 12:45 PM

I watched the first hour via the red button transmission and then could not take it any more. Excrutiatingly embarrassing and amateurish....ugh!

Tamsin Greig - WTF? Was she on drugs or something? Wittering on for, what, 5, 10 minutes even? Not amusing in any possible way.

Too much wittering in general by the presenters of the awards. Indeed, much too long spent in introducing (and fawning over) the presenters of the awards.

Barbara Dickson getting to plug her crappy new song - jeezus, brass neck or what?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: evansakes
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 01:05 PM

Looking at the 'red button' repeats I see the BBC have now censored one (apparently offensive) word in Chris Wood's rendition of 'Hollow Point'....

Maybe it will be reinstated after the watershed....


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,jims
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 01:28 PM

I once suggested Alastair Anderson for the lifetime award. As a musician, composer, Folkworks director, folk degree course leader, etc he has achieved a lot. I got a polite acknowledgement, then no more. I guess he's not famous enough compared with Donovan, Tom Paxton, etc.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 01:50 PM

To be reasonably comfortble and to perform around-about their best, those on stage must have been fairly convinced that they were doing the right thing/were at the right venue - but, as suggested above, I think that must have involved a large amount of delusion.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: brezhnev
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 02:44 PM

Nice one, WalkaboutsVerse.

Welcome to the folk spectacle, where everything that may or may not have been directly lived has morphed into a representation guest-presented by Frank Skinner - now with watch-again edited highlights.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 03:03 PM

At least he was funny. I thought.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,S.T.M.
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 03:59 PM

Hi,

Just browsing this thread. There seems to be a lot of comments about unworthy winners such as Donovan and also some of the presenters. Whilst I agree they were not wholly appropriate to folk music, especially Donovon, I think we have to take note that without these "bigger names" it would have been very hard for the BBC to get funding to televise this event. Obviously times are hard and cuts are being made so I think we're lucky that our humble genre of music got a whole 2 and a bit hours of footage via the BBC (I know I know, it should be on every day). But yes, back to my original point- without the likes of Donovan and Frank Skinner, I doubt the funding for this would have been as high and thus it would not be televised to the masses. The folk awards may seem like a bit of a fix but I do think it's great it's given folk music some good exposure and also, introduced folk music to some of the public who may not have been introduced before.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 05:53 PM

I think the problem was that far too much of the exposure was given to the lengthy, rambling, ego-charged speeches of the presenters and far too little to the musicians. Can anyone tell me, for example, why the sublime Andy Cutting didn't get up there and give us three or four minutes of sheer musical delight? I'd have traded a big lump of that tedious author's speech for that any day.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 06:19 PM

of an audience that (to this telly viewer anyway) appeared to have undergone a mass sense of humour bypass before being allowed in.

I have been with a couple of people who were there, this evening.

They felt the presenters were patronising and more concerned about themselves.

The regulars had suffered Frank Skinner's "beard jokes" before when he had last presented an award. Recycling cliches is not really funny whoever does it. What was Tamsin Greig on? Joanna Trollope managed to mention her book.

Simon Mayo has it right in his blog.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Noreen
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 07:27 PM

Simon Mayo's blog: A day for bellowing

Worth posting the whole thing, I think; it's not that long.

A tad bleary, welcome to Tuesday. A late evening of course at the Folk Awards last night. I hope you enjoyed the show from the Brewery (Mike Harding's confession was really rather fine) and then the show itself. As ever, it featured the combination of superb, wonderfully performed music and extraordinarily misjudged speeches. A great number of times I was moved to think 'It's not about you!'. The speeches from the winners were always charming and humble but so many times the prize givers got the tone all wrong (step forward Tamsin Greig, Joanna Trollope and others) resulting in embarrassed glances from the gathered folkies. Say hello, announce the winner and get off.

Anyway the show's highlights for me were the stunning, and ghostly white, Laura Marling, Chris Wood, Bellowhead and Port Isaac's Fisherman's Friends who managed to make everyone laugh and then then sing lustily. Top stuff.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 07:56 PM

Yep, that nails it.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 04:00 AM

For me the highlight was Chris Woods rendition of "Hollow Point"
Forget about the crass celebs plugging their books or making cheap beard jokes.
Chris came on and nailed it with his finely honed critique of the Stockwell killing 2 years ago.
Lifetime achievement award?
Danny Thompson for agreeing to play with Donovan.
Complete pro, Young Danny!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Mike Rogers
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 04:31 AM

Yes indeed, Danny Thompson bcaking Donovan was - what's the word - incongruous. I hope he (Danny) was well rewarded.
La Trollope - hey leather trousers are soooo cool dahling - has followed folk music for 3 years. As long as that. Only 50 odd years less than me. I've almost lost the will to live.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: evansakes
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 04:49 AM

Leave Donovan alone...didn't you hear him say "I was fired with the mission to bring Celtic music back to popular culture and I'm so glad the new generations have taken up the torch"

If it wasn't for Donovan we probably wouldn't have had Bob Dylan. After all it didn't take long before what was going on down in St Ives reverberated around the world and eventually reached Greenwich Village.

Not only that...he taught the Beatles how to finger-pick guitar you know. He even appeared on 'Sergeant Pepper'.....

In both folk and popular music there's no doubting all roads lead back to Donovan.

Not in his own mind anyway....


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 05:29 AM

Richard Thompson backing Donovan makes sense to me. For my money, the most interesting music Donovan made were those slightly jazzy arrangements with thick groovy double bass. Ever heard "Sunny Goodge Street"? That's a lovely piece of music, kind of like somehwere in between Eleanor Rigby and Astral Weeks-era Van Morrison.

Yes, Donovan is an utter prat who has made lots of dire music. But that's not to say he hasn't, just occasionally, made some pretty good music too.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 05:50 AM

"Whilst I agree they were not wholly appropriate to folk music, especially Donovon, I think we have to take note that without these "bigger names" it would have been very hard for the BBC to get funding to televise this event."

I agree with the theory, but in practice the event is so terminally uncool that such token gestures are irrelevant.

I have no problem with the idea of strategically booking a few acts that aren't folk in the purist sense - Laura Marling, for instance. Having an act like, say, Mumford & Sons (much as I hate their music) performing would make sense to me. It seems daft not to acknowledge the fact that there are a few acts that are massively successful in 2011 who happen to be playing banjos, mandolins etc. It doesn't hurt to capitalise on that.

I just think that they're getting their compromises wrong. Shirley Collins or Martin Carthy have a much bigger, much more credible influence than Donovan. I'd like to see a BBC Folk Awards where, say, Natasha Khan from Bat For Lashes presented Shirley Collins with a lifetime award. Or where Jack White from the White Stripes presented Martin Carthy with a lifetime achievement award.

My point is that there's a fundamental lack of understanding of how to place a niche music in a populist context. A folk awards should not compromise on its nominations and recipients. It should compromise in its presenters and featured performers. (In fact, I don't even regard the latter as a compromise.)

If I were a BBC producer, and someone suggested to me that Barbara Dickson should present the awards, I would have assumed they were joking. I would have said absolutely no bloody way. It's like they are going out of their way to present themselves as fogeyish and out of touch.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 06:40 AM

Unlike classical music where each line may be set separately, a folk song should, of course, REPEAT the tune used in the first stanza (and chorus); but, if a musician tried to double the melody of this year's Best Original Song, I think they'd find that it changes its tune quite a lot..?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,JM
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 06:41 AM

Matt : you are essentially right, but remember that all that is what the Folk Awards used to do well. Previous presentations have been made by members of Radiohead, Blur, Pulp etc. I've also been told that they've offered a lifetime achievement to the likes of Dylan and Paul Simon several times over the last ten years, but both of them are unwilling to come and collect so the award goes to someone who'll at least turn up instead.

It all hinges on who'll be willing to turn up. Having said that, I've no idea what having Barbara Dickson was all about...

"My point is that there's a fundamental lack of understanding of how to place a niche music in a populist context. A folk awards should not compromise on its nominations and recipients. It should compromise in its presenters and featured performers. (In fact, I don't even regard the latter as a compromise.)"

I agree with this, although I'd disagree about the performers. The interesting thing for me, as a fairly big Laura Marling fan up to now, was how flimsy and insignificant she sounded compared to Chris Wood directly after her. Having people who "happen to play banjos" instead of the very finest the folk scene can offer is defeating the object unless they are genuinely there on merit.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: brezhnev
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 07:14 AM

the event is so terminally uncool...there's a fundamental lack of understanding of how to place a niche music in a populist context

You're right, Matt. The BBC's last two efforts (this and the Xmas show they repeated not long ago on BBC4) have been so deeply uncool that they made me yearn for the days when they used to have folk singers sitting on bales of straw with Pan's People doing country dancing round them in gingham frocks.

There's a 'folk boom' under way (as Simon Mayo kept telling us beforehand) and this was the BBC's response! If I were The Mumfords I would have refused to have anything to do with it. They have their cred to consider.

Barbara Dickson? She's got an album and tour to promote, she used to be in The Two Ronnies and her management probably lunch with the people who dreamt up this drivel. Isn't that enough reason to book her?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: acegardener
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 07:49 AM

Years ago I spent some time 'on the road' A lot the 'beatniks' mostly seemed to regard master leitch as a bit of a fake. I may have bumped into him along the south coast, but it could not have been that memorial. A lot of his claims seem a bit fanciful and I doubt if Micky Most had not seen a quick shilling in him he would not have got anywhere. But there good luck to the boy, somebody had to do it.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Arti
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 08:02 AM

I was out of the country at the time.Does anyone please
have a printed summary of the winners ?

Arti.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: brezhnev
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 08:30 AM

why are you all being so horrid and snooty about donovan?

for millions of us seeing him appear in 1965 on Ready Steady Go was really, really exciting and was what got us into folk music. And he went on to write loads of fantastic songs that are still loved by millions.

"Real beatniks say Donovan a fake!" Yikes!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Silas
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 08:41 AM

Actually I agree. I don't dislike Donovan and he certainly does not dserve all this shit. He was certainly not the right person to be awarded this accolade, but that is not really his fault. His appearance, speech and performance was quite toe curling, but again, he probably believes in all his own hype - who dosent?

This 'teaching the beatles to fingerpick' is actually attributable to Paul McCartny, and appears to be true.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: melodeonboy
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 09:08 AM

Hmm...linking Mumford and Sons to folk music just because they use a banjo (and I can't honestly think of any other reason!) seems akin to linking the Benny Hill theme tune with jazz just because it involves a saxophone! :)


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 09:33 AM

....or linking the saxophone to jazz, when Adolf Sax invented it for military music.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,punfolkrocker
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 09:34 AM

"Yes, Donovan is an utter prat who has made lots of dire music.
But that's not to say he hasn't, just occasionally, made some pretty good music too."


actually.. for a brief period Donovan made some bloody excellent singles and LPs,
amongst the very best ever produced in trippy 60's pop 'folk' psycadelia..

Maybe the credit for that short burst of creative perfection was due more to the maturity and discipline
of his producers and arrangers preventing Donovan from undermining the recordings
with his embarrassing egotistical trite self-indulgence..

or perhaps it was entirely due to Donovan himself being on top of his game and ahead of the zeitgeist..

who knows..???

Just lets not forget he was once a long time ago a serious talent to be reckoned with..

[or at very least responsible for a portfolio of exquisite recordings made in collaboration with a great production team
and credited to his his name]

Cultural critics would have been much kinder to Donovan if he had died tragically in 1970..????


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: RTim
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 09:45 AM

It has been interesting reading this thread from the USA about what is happening on the "Happening" scene in the UK.

I was looking at related articles, and found this below on the Beehive City site. An interesting comparison with what people say on Mudcat!
If the link doesn't work, I have also included the article without photos, etc.

Tim Radford (in exile - Woods Hole)

http://www.beehivecity.com/radio/time-for-radio-2-folk-awards-to-embrace-laura-marling-mumford-sons4356124/


ARTICLE:

Time for BBC R2 Folk Awards to embrace Laura Marling, Mumford & Sons
February 8, 2011
By Adam Sherwin
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Daltrey & Donovan share some hazy memories

Roger Daltrey was on fine form at the BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards last night. ÓYou can cut all you like but youÕll never cut the music out of me. Great music always comes out of adversity,Ó The Who singer said at an event which reminded Radio 2 listeners hearing the event live for the first time, that thereÕs one genre of music that has never shied away from politics.

The audience at the London Brewery, including Douglas Alexander, shadow Foreign Secretary, sat in hushed silence as Chris Wood performed the Song of the Year, Hollow Point, an acoustic tune detailing the final minutes of Jean Charles de Menezes life before the innocent Brazilian was killed by police.

An estimated two million R2 listeners heard Charles Hazlewood, the conductor and BBC presenter, open the event with a tirade, saying: ÒThese awards are a very necessary slice of sunshine in gloomy times when local authorities up and down the country are slashing their arts provision. TheyÕve forgotten the essential truth that if the cultural life of a country is strong then so is itÕs soul.Ó

All good stuff to counter any accusations that a night of folk awards, given a much higher-profile TV and Radio push by the BBC, might be ÒboringÓ.

And yet when presenters Mike Harding and Barbara Dickson, announced that a new generation of artists including Mumford & Sons and Noah & The Whale were reinvigorating folk music for a new generation, there was a sharp intake of breath from the traditionalists.

Mumford and Noah arenÕt allowed on the nominations list. Hip Òindie-folkÓ singer Laura Marling was allowed a Best Song nomination and invited to perform. But even that was apparently the subject of some debate. Seth Lakeman once prompted boos from some hardliners when he performed at the folk awards for straying too far from the traditional path.

ItÕs an attitude reflected in the section of the audience that bristled when guest presenter Frank Skinner delivered some amusing gags about the length of the nominees beards.


Each year these awards are shared out between a collective of musicians and sometimes even family members. ThereÕs the Martin Carthy/Norma Waterson dynasty, the Bellowhead/Imagined Village troupes and various members of Fairport Convention.

All great musicians and worthy winners but if the event is to justify the spotlight that the BBC is now shining upon it, amid claims that specialist music programming is being cut, it will have to appear more than the annual gathering of a cosy family club.

The Marlings, Mumfords and US acts like Beirut must be allowed to win, even at the expense of the old stagers. The definition of folk will have to stretch to country, in its traditional and alt forms, and the event allowed to embrace international artists now that the BBC has scrapped the World Music awards.

To give the Folk Awards the real boost it needs, a lifetime achievement invitation should be extended to Bob DylanÉif he doesnÕt get booed for dusting off an electric guitar.

Watch Laura Marling perform new track Flicker And Fail on the Radio 2 Folk Awards website
Follow us on Twitter - Beehive City:@beehivecity Editor-at-large:@adamsherwin10

This entry was posted on February 8, 2011 at 2:04 pm and is filed under Radio. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,steve th
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 09:47 AM

guess the big problem is the show is trying to be 2 things - a glitzy glam celebration of the best of british folk (which doesnt seem in keeping with the british folk scene to me) and a show case to sell folk to a wider audience (including bbc producers), id say the red button experience this year is a testing of the water for a possible proper televisised show (prob on bbc 4 , dont get your hopes up of folk going mainstream).
ok we had the usual problems - rambeling presenters and for regualar listeners too many awards going to the same small bunch of artists. can they just give Bellowhead a "best live band EVER" award or something then disqualify them from all future awards? ;-)

some of the grumbles on here seem unjustified - barbara dickson wouldnt have been my choice of presenter but the song she did was powerful (even if it criminally underused Troy Donockly) , Donovan? seemed nice enough chap who made a significant contribution to folk in the past - just not enough to justify a lifetime achievement award. the levellers i think were prob seen by many as a bit of a random choice - never really part of the folk scene. But i suspect if you ask around at folk clubs and festivals a large percentage of those there under 40 were introduced to folk music via the levellers.

anyway highlights - chris wood's hollow point winning best new song, and Ewan mcLennan winning the horizon award.

shame Coope Boyes and Simpson didnt win an award - partly cos i think they deserved one and partly cos i think they's have at least given an interesting acceptance speech.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 09:55 AM

Stolen from the Liverpool Folk Club 1970 thread, David Musgrave's poem in the New Yorker;

On the inevitable decline into mediocrity of the popular musician who attains a comfortable middle age

Oh Sting, where is thy death?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 10:10 AM

"can they just give Bellowhead a "best live band EVER" award or something then disqualify them from all future awards? ;-)" (Steve)...or take Awards off them for so badly over-accompanying traditional songs?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 10:17 AM

..."There are, of course, many ways of accompanying a song but, if we are to accompany traditionally- unaccompanied English, e.g., folk-songs, we should surely keep it light" (here).


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 10:27 AM

Winners listed here


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: melodeonboy
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 10:36 AM

"....or linking the saxophone to jazz, when Adolf Sax invented it for military music."

Why do we always have to bring Sax in to it? :)


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,S.T.M.
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 12:03 PM

"..."There are, of course, many ways of accompanying a song but, if we are to accompany traditionally- unaccompanied English, e.g., folk-songs, we should surely keep it light" (here)."

Or just do it however the hell you want so that other people can enjoy it...

Personally, I love listening to traditional folk songs being sung unaccompanied. However, I also enjoy dancing and listening to new arrangements of old tunes. I don't see why this is such a crime. The likes of Bellowhead are doing a lot for traditional music recently, whether you like it or not.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 12:08 PM

...I'll tell you what I did like, for what it's worth, S.T.M: Fisherman's Friends' performance - entertaining AND authentic.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,S.T.M.
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 12:30 PM

I agree, it was great. Actually, funnily enough, they really enjoyed Bellowhead- their wives asked for autographs...

But yes, they were my highlight. Although I was excited to see Laura Marling too, although, again, I feel she was a bit out of context.

Oh heck, Chris Wood was good too. Overall, I think we had some great performances that night.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: s&r
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 06:22 PM

Oh WAV.

In one thread you've managed to match your bizarre folk beliefs with hysterical ideas on Saxes, about which you obviously know as much as you know about jazz.

I never quite know whether your absurd pronouncements are intended as humour or as serious observations. I hope it's humour: to believe that you believe is beyond belief

Stu


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,mulv
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 09:57 PM

Ha'porth ! Only clocked this using the 'Red' Button.
Fishm's Friends....South Austr'ya....poor....how many blokes singing the same parts ?,lead 'cutting' notes so short and a bit 'off'(pub stuff !)
Barb Dickson (always been a great respector of BD's voice from years back)...she can still sing,of course...but 'Donald' was slow (as are other clips on her website of other songs) and 'over-produced'.Sell-by dates springs to mind !
Kate Rusby - **cking bird - nuff said.Kate is FAR better than this !
Chris Wood - not heard 'Hollow Point' before - only clocked ('cos in trad style) when he mentioned Brixton (there's me thinking Devon !) and Stockwell.Not in a position to know how accurate his 'version' of the events to/actual shooting are ! Huge debate on this,I suspect.In terms of song construction,well...OK...but hardly rivetting and weak lyrics really,given such a sensitive subject.Music/voice....good floor spot ! But no more.
Donovan.........jeez.....far better in the 60's...give it up mate ! Take the royalties ! (And who said Donovan was before Dylan ??? Check your facts - it's vice-versa....no,ain't holding any light for Dylan...his voice has always been crap )
Laura Melting - good voice,song did nothing for me !
Bellowhead - strong musically but I still think the vocals are a let-down.
Any acts that I've forgotten to mention - you've now got an idea of how big an impression you made !
Like the Xmas 'special',I thought that,once again,BBC has portrayed folk music in a poor light.....was it budget,was it poor sound engineering,was it purely poor performers ?? Quite honestly,I reckon the Beeb should stick to the Weather.....give 'folk' a miss if they are only going to give the genre lip-service....
Maybe we all have to accept that the folk genre is not TV sympo....that TV is NOT the same as the 'live thing'....that the Beeb is certainly not able to 'catch' and 'portray' the live atmosphere.Ask yourselves....would anyone 'first time' watching ANY of the artists actually spend money to go and watch one of their gigs ??? Apart from Jasper Carrot and Billy Connelly ('cos of their humour not their folk performing talents),who else in folk has ever really made it 'big' on TV ? I'm not sure whether or not Vin Garbutt has deliberately shied away from TV.......but he's probably made the right decision !
What I've seen from Folk 2 + Xmas special.....I'm just embarrassed ! Neither has worked,in my own opinion (for my own satisfaction or,I suggest,for the wide wide world beyond !) Let's just stick to the clubs,sessioms and festivals.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 06:06 AM

Stu - have a look at Adolf Sax, and what he invented/intended the saxophone for.
And, while I'm at it, the Folk Award organisers would do well to have a look at the folk-festival competitions in Durham and Northumberland; e.g., there should definitely be an Award for Best Unaccompanied Traditional Song/Track - the very roots of our folk music.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: s&r
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 04:39 PM

From your own pet source David (Wiki - definition by consensus) "The saxophone was invented for use in both orchestras and concert bands."

Jazz musicians use it to great effect.

Its advantage and no doubt the main thrust of the invention is that it overblows at the octave, not the twelfth, which simplifies fingering compared to the clarinet family.

If you had ever played the clarinet and sax you would understand.

Stu


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: s&r
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 04:42 PM

Or perhaps not

Stu


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 04:51 PM

I can't remember where I originally read or heard about Sax's invention of the Saxophone, Stu, but this will do: "the saxophone was intended to form a tonal link between the clarinets and brass instruments found in military bands, an area which Sax considered sorely lacking" (here).


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: s&r
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 04:20 AM

I think the most depressing thing about your posts David is that they consist largely of instructions on the rules that the rest of the world should follow

e.g.[sic] we should not accompany folk songs,
we should not use foreign instruments, we should not grow foreign plants, we should not accept foreign immigrants...

I could go on. I find it disturbing and a little bit frightening

Stu


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 05:57 AM

You certainly come across as disturbed, Stu: the only contributions I see from you on Mudcat are (often false or distorted) attacks on me - check just above what I actually said.

I'm a voluntary repatriate and you are one of the pro-immigrationists giving me a rough time.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 07:03 AM

What's the difference between a "voluntary repatriate" and a "forced repatriate"?
And what the hell is a "pro-immigrationist"? Is there such a word?
And David...This thread is about the Folk Awards demo regarding the axeing of the FolkWaves programme on East Midlands local radio stations. It's nothing to do with your rather strange views about English traditional music.
Probably better to start your own thread. Thank You.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: s&r
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:44 AM

David - I don't think I have ever attacked you. I find many of your posts offensive or irritating: these are what I respond to.

Your voluntary repatriation may say that you wish to be 'English' however your ideas are far from my understanding of this broadly tolerant land in which I live.

I love music of all genres, and find your restrictive and hidebound posts on your misunderstanding of musical matters out of place on this forum, full as it is of members whose opinions and ideas are exciting and informed by long study and experience. Equally I find your misplaced missionary posts spoil many threads.

But I don't know you, and you may be a nice guy.

Stu


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: s&r
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:46 AM

Sorry for the thread creep Ralphie

Stu


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:59 AM

No need to aplogise Stu. Just part of the cut and thrust of forum life!
And even though Coope Boyes and Simpson didn't win an award the other day, they did write and perform an accapella jingle for the Simon Mayo show, before the ceremony.
And the demo went really well. Which was the point after all. Only rained a bit!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 09:06 AM

The truth is, several were using this thread for BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections , before Stu began using it for another agenda.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: s&r
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 12:33 PM

David - this is the agenda I see which does disturb me. These are your posts on this thread (other than those where you accuse me of having an agenda)

1.The Bewilderingly Broad Church Folk Awards: let's all Americanise our music, back Fabio Capello, and go for a curry! (Anti American, anti Italian, football thread drift, anti Indian)

2 There'll always be an England (our traditions are just that strong), and (unlike the Scots) we don't need an "English Folk Awards".(Good for us xenophobic little Englanders)

3 a folk song should, of course, REPEAT the tune used in the first stanza (and chorus)(no of course about it - just another mistaken pronouncement, but at least on topic)

4 .or take Awards off them for so badly over-accompanying traditional songs? (according to the Gospel of WAV)

5 if we are to accompany traditionally- unaccompanied English, e.g., folk-songs, we should surely keep it light" (here). (according to the gospel of WAV)

6 ...I'll tell you what I did like, for what it's worth, S.T.M: Fisherman's Friends' performance - entertaining AND authentic. (reasonable post)

I really have no problem with you - I don't know you. Many of your posts disturb me.

Stu


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 01:03 PM

Nasty distortion, again, Stu (and, if you look back, it began on this thread just after I politely informed you were wrong about the Saxophone): e.g., I've stressed the difference between being anti-American and anti-Americanisation many times; I've enjoyed visiting Italy - "A Beautiful Stage" - but don't like managers being payed a fortune to compete for other nations, etc.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: fat B****rd
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 03:45 PM

WAV, me old love, I have no axe to grind with you in particukar. Personally I don't care who is on the Folk Awards thing. For a detailed account of Mr. Sax and his amazing instrument you might read 'The Devil's Horn' by Michael Segell. Also, while I'm at it; if you don't like the idea that music other than that in vogue when a particular instrument was developed, doesn't that indicate that one mustn't for instace play anything other than "classical" music on a Stradivarius.
There, all done.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 04:46 PM

I introduce my repertoire (including my own Chants from Walkabouts) with a baroque recorder, FB. And I hope we are all "all done" now, rather than go on and on "Benny Hill" (above) like!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 12 Feb 11 - 10:52 AM

Oh God. Not another link to your website.
How many times are you going to flag it up?
Please desist.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Feb 11 - 11:51 AM

Seeing as the subject of this debate provokes the usual expected level of obsessive and repetitive private agendas
and disordered thread creep;
here's a timely reminder from the BBC as to why we should always be aware & alert
and understanding towards the more extremely eccentric mudcat 'cranks & crackpots'...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12395656

take care folks...


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Surreysinger
Date: 12 Feb 11 - 08:28 PM

Could I point out that this thread's topic is about the demo which was staged OUTSIDE the venue for the Folk Awards and about saving the FOLKWAVES programme, which was cancelled with short notice before Christmas. Personal pet peeves about what should or should not have won,what should or should not be the subject of an awards event,how people introduce their performances, their own websites or indeed about personality disorders are exceedingly well off topic and have nothing to do with it. If people want to post on this thread, could they restrict their chat to that?? It is a subject which is felt strongly about by many people, and these conversations and peeves are completely divorced from it. There is, after all, as WAV himself has pointed out, another thread for reflections about the awards. Go post there???


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 12:53 PM

I wouldn't say "personality disorders" (SurreySinger) or "cranks and crackpots" (PunkFolkRocker), but believing that what has become mainstream Americn culture is somehow above our own and, thus, singing with an American accent or adding pop, rock or jazz elements (and being rewarded/Awarded for it) IS wrong.

As Gareth Malone replied to one of my tweets, "English folk is cool" ~ RT @davidfranks: #folkawards When will we have an ENGLISH Folk Awards to match what they have in Scotland?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Surreysinger
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 01:23 PM

I previously said "There is, after all, as WAV himself has pointed out, another thread for reflections about the awards. Go post there??? "

WAV ... please take a look at your own earlier observations regarding threads , see what I posted (which was NOT about personality disorders - that was a previous poster) and continue your conversation about topics unrelated to the subject matter of the thread elsewhere. This is not about you and your ideas or the Folk Awards - it's about the campaign to save FOLKWAVES.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 01:37 AM

Would just like to agree with Surreysinger.
David. This thread is not about the Folk Awards, or a plave for you to repeat again your views on Folk music in general (which we have heard a million times before) I started it to highlight the protest to re-instate one of the best loved radio programmes that was axed just before christmas. There are other threads where you can pontificate about your views on what folk music should be. Why not start one of your own, and you can talk to yourself.
The rest of us have heard your views.


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