BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 01:37 AM

Would just like to agree with Surreysinger.
David. This thread is not about the Folk Awards, or a plave for you to repeat again your views on Folk music in general (which we have heard a million times before) I started it to highlight the protest to re-instate one of the best loved radio programmes that was axed just before christmas. There are other threads where you can pontificate about your views on what folk music should be. Why not start one of your own, and you can talk to yourself.
The rest of us have heard your views.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Surreysinger
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 01:23 PM

I previously said "There is, after all, as WAV himself has pointed out, another thread for reflections about the awards. Go post there??? "

WAV ... please take a look at your own earlier observations regarding threads , see what I posted (which was NOT about personality disorders - that was a previous poster) and continue your conversation about topics unrelated to the subject matter of the thread elsewhere. This is not about you and your ideas or the Folk Awards - it's about the campaign to save FOLKWAVES.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 12:53 PM

I wouldn't say "personality disorders" (SurreySinger) or "cranks and crackpots" (PunkFolkRocker), but believing that what has become mainstream Americn culture is somehow above our own and, thus, singing with an American accent or adding pop, rock or jazz elements (and being rewarded/Awarded for it) IS wrong.

As Gareth Malone replied to one of my tweets, "English folk is cool" ~ RT @davidfranks: #folkawards When will we have an ENGLISH Folk Awards to match what they have in Scotland?

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Surreysinger
Date: 12 Feb 11 - 08:28 PM

Could I point out that this thread's topic is about the demo which was staged OUTSIDE the venue for the Folk Awards and about saving the FOLKWAVES programme, which was cancelled with short notice before Christmas. Personal pet peeves about what should or should not have won,what should or should not be the subject of an awards event,how people introduce their performances, their own websites or indeed about personality disorders are exceedingly well off topic and have nothing to do with it. If people want to post on this thread, could they restrict their chat to that?? It is a subject which is felt strongly about by many people, and these conversations and peeves are completely divorced from it. There is, after all, as WAV himself has pointed out, another thread for reflections about the awards. Go post there???

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Feb 11 - 11:51 AM

Seeing as the subject of this debate provokes the usual expected level of obsessive and repetitive private agendas
and disordered thread creep;
here's a timely reminder from the BBC as to why we should always be aware & alert
and understanding towards the more extremely eccentric mudcat 'cranks & crackpots'...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12395656

take care folks...

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 12 Feb 11 - 10:52 AM

Oh God. Not another link to your website.
How many times are you going to flag it up?
Please desist.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 04:46 PM

I introduce my repertoire (including my own Chants from Walkabouts) with a baroque recorder, FB. And I hope we are all "all done" now, rather than go on and on "Benny Hill" (above) like!

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: fat B****rd
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 03:45 PM

WAV, me old love, I have no axe to grind with you in particukar. Personally I don't care who is on the Folk Awards thing. For a detailed account of Mr. Sax and his amazing instrument you might read 'The Devil's Horn' by Michael Segell. Also, while I'm at it; if you don't like the idea that music other than that in vogue when a particular instrument was developed, doesn't that indicate that one mustn't for instace play anything other than "classical" music on a Stradivarius.
There, all done.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 01:03 PM

Nasty distortion, again, Stu (and, if you look back, it began on this thread just after I politely informed you were wrong about the Saxophone): e.g., I've stressed the difference between being anti-American and anti-Americanisation many times; I've enjoyed visiting Italy - "A Beautiful Stage" - but don't like managers being payed a fortune to compete for other nations, etc.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: s&r
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 12:33 PM

David - this is the agenda I see which does disturb me. These are your posts on this thread (other than those where you accuse me of having an agenda)

1.The Bewilderingly Broad Church Folk Awards: let's all Americanise our music, back Fabio Capello, and go for a curry! (Anti American, anti Italian, football thread drift, anti Indian)

2 There'll always be an England (our traditions are just that strong), and (unlike the Scots) we don't need an "English Folk Awards".(Good for us xenophobic little Englanders)

3 a folk song should, of course, REPEAT the tune used in the first stanza (and chorus)(no of course about it - just another mistaken pronouncement, but at least on topic)

4 .or take Awards off them for so badly over-accompanying traditional songs? (according to the Gospel of WAV)

5 if we are to accompany traditionally- unaccompanied English, e.g., folk-songs, we should surely keep it light" (here). (according to the gospel of WAV)

6 ...I'll tell you what I did like, for what it's worth, S.T.M: Fisherman's Friends' performance - entertaining AND authentic. (reasonable post)

I really have no problem with you - I don't know you. Many of your posts disturb me.

Stu

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 09:06 AM

The truth is, several were using this thread for BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections , before Stu began using it for another agenda.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:59 AM

No need to aplogise Stu. Just part of the cut and thrust of forum life!
And even though Coope Boyes and Simpson didn't win an award the other day, they did write and perform an accapella jingle for the Simon Mayo show, before the ceremony.
And the demo went really well. Which was the point after all. Only rained a bit!

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: s&r
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:46 AM

Sorry for the thread creep Ralphie

Stu

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: s&r
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:44 AM

David - I don't think I have ever attacked you. I find many of your posts offensive or irritating: these are what I respond to.

Your voluntary repatriation may say that you wish to be 'English' however your ideas are far from my understanding of this broadly tolerant land in which I live.

I love music of all genres, and find your restrictive and hidebound posts on your misunderstanding of musical matters out of place on this forum, full as it is of members whose opinions and ideas are exciting and informed by long study and experience. Equally I find your misplaced missionary posts spoil many threads.

But I don't know you, and you may be a nice guy.

Stu

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 07:03 AM

What's the difference between a "voluntary repatriate" and a "forced repatriate"?
And what the hell is a "pro-immigrationist"? Is there such a word?
And David...This thread is about the Folk Awards demo regarding the axeing of the FolkWaves programme on East Midlands local radio stations. It's nothing to do with your rather strange views about English traditional music.
Probably better to start your own thread. Thank You.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 05:57 AM

You certainly come across as disturbed, Stu: the only contributions I see from you on Mudcat are (often false or distorted) attacks on me - check just above what I actually said.

I'm a voluntary repatriate and you are one of the pro-immigrationists giving me a rough time.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: s&r
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 04:20 AM

I think the most depressing thing about your posts David is that they consist largely of instructions on the rules that the rest of the world should follow

e.g.[sic] we should not accompany folk songs,
we should not use foreign instruments, we should not grow foreign plants, we should not accept foreign immigrants...

I could go on. I find it disturbing and a little bit frightening

Stu

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 04:51 PM

I can't remember where I originally read or heard about Sax's invention of the Saxophone, Stu, but this will do: "the saxophone was intended to form a tonal link between the clarinets and brass instruments found in military bands, an area which Sax considered sorely lacking" (here).

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: s&r
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 04:42 PM

Or perhaps not

Stu

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: s&r
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 04:39 PM

From your own pet source David (Wiki - definition by consensus) "The saxophone was invented for use in both orchestras and concert bands."

Jazz musicians use it to great effect.

Its advantage and no doubt the main thrust of the invention is that it overblows at the octave, not the twelfth, which simplifies fingering compared to the clarinet family.

If you had ever played the clarinet and sax you would understand.

Stu

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 06:06 AM

Stu - have a look at Adolf Sax, and what he invented/intended the saxophone for.
And, while I'm at it, the Folk Award organisers would do well to have a look at the folk-festival competitions in Durham and Northumberland; e.g., there should definitely be an Award for Best Unaccompanied Traditional Song/Track - the very roots of our folk music.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,mulv
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 09:57 PM

Ha'porth ! Only clocked this using the 'Red' Button.
Fishm's Friends....South Austr'ya....poor....how many blokes singing the same parts ?,lead 'cutting' notes so short and a bit 'off'(pub stuff !)
Barb Dickson (always been a great respector of BD's voice from years back)...she can still sing,of course...but 'Donald' was slow (as are other clips on her website of other songs) and 'over-produced'.Sell-by dates springs to mind !
Kate Rusby - **cking bird - nuff said.Kate is FAR better than this !
Chris Wood - not heard 'Hollow Point' before - only clocked ('cos in trad style) when he mentioned Brixton (there's me thinking Devon !) and Stockwell.Not in a position to know how accurate his 'version' of the events to/actual shooting are ! Huge debate on this,I suspect.In terms of song construction,well...OK...but hardly rivetting and weak lyrics really,given such a sensitive subject.Music/voice....good floor spot ! But no more.
Donovan.........jeez.....far better in the 60's...give it up mate ! Take the royalties ! (And who said Donovan was before Dylan ??? Check your facts - it's vice-versa....no,ain't holding any light for Dylan...his voice has always been crap )
Laura Melting - good voice,song did nothing for me !
Bellowhead - strong musically but I still think the vocals are a let-down.
Any acts that I've forgotten to mention - you've now got an idea of how big an impression you made !
Like the Xmas 'special',I thought that,once again,BBC has portrayed folk music in a poor light.....was it budget,was it poor sound engineering,was it purely poor performers ?? Quite honestly,I reckon the Beeb should stick to the Weather.....give 'folk' a miss if they are only going to give the genre lip-service....
Maybe we all have to accept that the folk genre is not TV sympo....that TV is NOT the same as the 'live thing'....that the Beeb is certainly not able to 'catch' and 'portray' the live atmosphere.Ask yourselves....would anyone 'first time' watching ANY of the artists actually spend money to go and watch one of their gigs ??? Apart from Jasper Carrot and Billy Connelly ('cos of their humour not their folk performing talents),who else in folk has ever really made it 'big' on TV ? I'm not sure whether or not Vin Garbutt has deliberately shied away from TV.......but he's probably made the right decision !
What I've seen from Folk 2 + Xmas special.....I'm just embarrassed ! Neither has worked,in my own opinion (for my own satisfaction or,I suggest,for the wide wide world beyond !) Let's just stick to the clubs,sessioms and festivals.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: s&r
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 06:22 PM

Oh WAV.

In one thread you've managed to match your bizarre folk beliefs with hysterical ideas on Saxes, about which you obviously know as much as you know about jazz.

I never quite know whether your absurd pronouncements are intended as humour or as serious observations. I hope it's humour: to believe that you believe is beyond belief

Stu

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,S.T.M.
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 12:30 PM

I agree, it was great. Actually, funnily enough, they really enjoyed Bellowhead- their wives asked for autographs...

But yes, they were my highlight. Although I was excited to see Laura Marling too, although, again, I feel she was a bit out of context.

Oh heck, Chris Wood was good too. Overall, I think we had some great performances that night.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 12:08 PM

...I'll tell you what I did like, for what it's worth, S.T.M: Fisherman's Friends' performance - entertaining AND authentic.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,S.T.M.
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 12:03 PM

"..."There are, of course, many ways of accompanying a song but, if we are to accompany traditionally- unaccompanied English, e.g., folk-songs, we should surely keep it light" (here)."

Or just do it however the hell you want so that other people can enjoy it...

Personally, I love listening to traditional folk songs being sung unaccompanied. However, I also enjoy dancing and listening to new arrangements of old tunes. I don't see why this is such a crime. The likes of Bellowhead are doing a lot for traditional music recently, whether you like it or not.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: melodeonboy
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 10:36 AM

"....or linking the saxophone to jazz, when Adolf Sax invented it for military music."

Why do we always have to bring Sax in to it? :)

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 10:27 AM

Winners listed here

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 10:17 AM

..."There are, of course, many ways of accompanying a song but, if we are to accompany traditionally- unaccompanied English, e.g., folk-songs, we should surely keep it light" (here).

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 10:10 AM

"can they just give Bellowhead a "best live band EVER" award or something then disqualify them from all future awards? ;-)" (Steve)...or take Awards off them for so badly over-accompanying traditional songs?

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 09:55 AM

Stolen from the Liverpool Folk Club 1970 thread, David Musgrave's poem in the New Yorker;

On the inevitable decline into mediocrity of the popular musician who attains a comfortable middle age

Oh Sting, where is thy death?

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,steve th
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 09:47 AM

guess the big problem is the show is trying to be 2 things - a glitzy glam celebration of the best of british folk (which doesnt seem in keeping with the british folk scene to me) and a show case to sell folk to a wider audience (including bbc producers), id say the red button experience this year is a testing of the water for a possible proper televisised show (prob on bbc 4 , dont get your hopes up of folk going mainstream).
ok we had the usual problems - rambeling presenters and for regualar listeners too many awards going to the same small bunch of artists. can they just give Bellowhead a "best live band EVER" award or something then disqualify them from all future awards? ;-)

some of the grumbles on here seem unjustified - barbara dickson wouldnt have been my choice of presenter but the song she did was powerful (even if it criminally underused Troy Donockly) , Donovan? seemed nice enough chap who made a significant contribution to folk in the past - just not enough to justify a lifetime achievement award. the levellers i think were prob seen by many as a bit of a random choice - never really part of the folk scene. But i suspect if you ask around at folk clubs and festivals a large percentage of those there under 40 were introduced to folk music via the levellers.

anyway highlights - chris wood's hollow point winning best new song, and Ewan mcLennan winning the horizon award.

shame Coope Boyes and Simpson didnt win an award - partly cos i think they deserved one and partly cos i think they's have at least given an interesting acceptance speech.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: RTim
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 09:45 AM

It has been interesting reading this thread from the USA about what is happening on the "Happening" scene in the UK.

I was looking at related articles, and found this below on the Beehive City site. An interesting comparison with what people say on Mudcat!
If the link doesn't work, I have also included the article without photos, etc.

Tim Radford (in exile - Woods Hole)

http://www.beehivecity.com/radio/time-for-radio-2-folk-awards-to-embrace-laura-marling-mumford-sons4356124/


ARTICLE:

Time for BBC R2 Folk Awards to embrace Laura Marling, Mumford & Sons
February 8, 2011
By Adam Sherwin
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Daltrey & Donovan share some hazy memories

Roger Daltrey was on fine form at the BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards last night. ÓYou can cut all you like but youÕll never cut the music out of me. Great music always comes out of adversity,Ó The Who singer said at an event which reminded Radio 2 listeners hearing the event live for the first time, that thereÕs one genre of music that has never shied away from politics.

The audience at the London Brewery, including Douglas Alexander, shadow Foreign Secretary, sat in hushed silence as Chris Wood performed the Song of the Year, Hollow Point, an acoustic tune detailing the final minutes of Jean Charles de Menezes life before the innocent Brazilian was killed by police.

An estimated two million R2 listeners heard Charles Hazlewood, the conductor and BBC presenter, open the event with a tirade, saying: ÒThese awards are a very necessary slice of sunshine in gloomy times when local authorities up and down the country are slashing their arts provision. TheyÕve forgotten the essential truth that if the cultural life of a country is strong then so is itÕs soul.Ó

All good stuff to counter any accusations that a night of folk awards, given a much higher-profile TV and Radio push by the BBC, might be ÒboringÓ.

And yet when presenters Mike Harding and Barbara Dickson, announced that a new generation of artists including Mumford & Sons and Noah & The Whale were reinvigorating folk music for a new generation, there was a sharp intake of breath from the traditionalists.

Mumford and Noah arenÕt allowed on the nominations list. Hip Òindie-folkÓ singer Laura Marling was allowed a Best Song nomination and invited to perform. But even that was apparently the subject of some debate. Seth Lakeman once prompted boos from some hardliners when he performed at the folk awards for straying too far from the traditional path.

ItÕs an attitude reflected in the section of the audience that bristled when guest presenter Frank Skinner delivered some amusing gags about the length of the nominees beards.


Each year these awards are shared out between a collective of musicians and sometimes even family members. ThereÕs the Martin Carthy/Norma Waterson dynasty, the Bellowhead/Imagined Village troupes and various members of Fairport Convention.

All great musicians and worthy winners but if the event is to justify the spotlight that the BBC is now shining upon it, amid claims that specialist music programming is being cut, it will have to appear more than the annual gathering of a cosy family club.

The Marlings, Mumfords and US acts like Beirut must be allowed to win, even at the expense of the old stagers. The definition of folk will have to stretch to country, in its traditional and alt forms, and the event allowed to embrace international artists now that the BBC has scrapped the World Music awards.

To give the Folk Awards the real boost it needs, a lifetime achievement invitation should be extended to Bob DylanÉif he doesnÕt get booed for dusting off an electric guitar.

Watch Laura Marling perform new track Flicker And Fail on the Radio 2 Folk Awards website
Follow us on Twitter - Beehive City:@beehivecity Editor-at-large:@adamsherwin10

This entry was posted on February 8, 2011 at 2:04 pm and is filed under Radio. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,punfolkrocker
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 09:34 AM

"Yes, Donovan is an utter prat who has made lots of dire music.
But that's not to say he hasn't, just occasionally, made some pretty good music too."

actually.. for a brief period Donovan made some bloody excellent singles and LPs,
amongst the very best ever produced in trippy 60's pop 'folk' psycadelia..

Maybe the credit for that short burst of creative perfection was due more to the maturity and discipline
of his producers and arrangers preventing Donovan from undermining the recordings
with his embarrassing egotistical trite self-indulgence..

or perhaps it was entirely due to Donovan himself being on top of his game and ahead of the zeitgeist..

who knows..???

Just lets not forget he was once a long time ago a serious talent to be reckoned with..

[or at very least responsible for a portfolio of exquisite recordings made in collaboration with a great production team
and credited to his his name]

Cultural critics would have been much kinder to Donovan if he had died tragically in 1970..????

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 09:33 AM

....or linking the saxophone to jazz, when Adolf Sax invented it for military music.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: melodeonboy
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 09:08 AM

Hmm...linking Mumford and Sons to folk music just because they use a banjo (and I can't honestly think of any other reason!) seems akin to linking the Benny Hill theme tune with jazz just because it involves a saxophone! :)

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Silas
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 08:41 AM

Actually I agree. I don't dislike Donovan and he certainly does not dserve all this shit. He was certainly not the right person to be awarded this accolade, but that is not really his fault. His appearance, speech and performance was quite toe curling, but again, he probably believes in all his own hype - who dosent?

This 'teaching the beatles to fingerpick' is actually attributable to Paul McCartny, and appears to be true.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: brezhnev
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 08:30 AM

why are you all being so horrid and snooty about donovan?

for millions of us seeing him appear in 1965 on Ready Steady Go was really, really exciting and was what got us into folk music. And he went on to write loads of fantastic songs that are still loved by millions.

"Real beatniks say Donovan a fake!" Yikes!

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Arti
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 08:02 AM

I was out of the country at the time.Does anyone please
have a printed summary of the winners ?

Arti.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: acegardener
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 07:49 AM

Years ago I spent some time 'on the road' A lot the 'beatniks' mostly seemed to regard master leitch as a bit of a fake. I may have bumped into him along the south coast, but it could not have been that memorial. A lot of his claims seem a bit fanciful and I doubt if Micky Most had not seen a quick shilling in him he would not have got anywhere. But there good luck to the boy, somebody had to do it.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: brezhnev
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 07:14 AM

the event is so terminally uncool...there's a fundamental lack of understanding of how to place a niche music in a populist context

You're right, Matt. The BBC's last two efforts (this and the Xmas show they repeated not long ago on BBC4) have been so deeply uncool that they made me yearn for the days when they used to have folk singers sitting on bales of straw with Pan's People doing country dancing round them in gingham frocks.

There's a 'folk boom' under way (as Simon Mayo kept telling us beforehand) and this was the BBC's response! If I were The Mumfords I would have refused to have anything to do with it. They have their cred to consider.

Barbara Dickson? She's got an album and tour to promote, she used to be in The Two Ronnies and her management probably lunch with the people who dreamt up this drivel. Isn't that enough reason to book her?

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,JM
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 06:41 AM

Matt : you are essentially right, but remember that all that is what the Folk Awards used to do well. Previous presentations have been made by members of Radiohead, Blur, Pulp etc. I've also been told that they've offered a lifetime achievement to the likes of Dylan and Paul Simon several times over the last ten years, but both of them are unwilling to come and collect so the award goes to someone who'll at least turn up instead.

It all hinges on who'll be willing to turn up. Having said that, I've no idea what having Barbara Dickson was all about...

"My point is that there's a fundamental lack of understanding of how to place a niche music in a populist context. A folk awards should not compromise on its nominations and recipients. It should compromise in its presenters and featured performers. (In fact, I don't even regard the latter as a compromise.)"

I agree with this, although I'd disagree about the performers. The interesting thing for me, as a fairly big Laura Marling fan up to now, was how flimsy and insignificant she sounded compared to Chris Wood directly after her. Having people who "happen to play banjos" instead of the very finest the folk scene can offer is defeating the object unless they are genuinely there on merit.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 06:40 AM

Unlike classical music where each line may be set separately, a folk song should, of course, REPEAT the tune used in the first stanza (and chorus); but, if a musician tried to double the melody of this year's Best Original Song, I think they'd find that it changes its tune quite a lot..?

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 05:50 AM

"Whilst I agree they were not wholly appropriate to folk music, especially Donovon, I think we have to take note that without these "bigger names" it would have been very hard for the BBC to get funding to televise this event."

I agree with the theory, but in practice the event is so terminally uncool that such token gestures are irrelevant.

I have no problem with the idea of strategically booking a few acts that aren't folk in the purist sense - Laura Marling, for instance. Having an act like, say, Mumford & Sons (much as I hate their music) performing would make sense to me. It seems daft not to acknowledge the fact that there are a few acts that are massively successful in 2011 who happen to be playing banjos, mandolins etc. It doesn't hurt to capitalise on that.

I just think that they're getting their compromises wrong. Shirley Collins or Martin Carthy have a much bigger, much more credible influence than Donovan. I'd like to see a BBC Folk Awards where, say, Natasha Khan from Bat For Lashes presented Shirley Collins with a lifetime award. Or where Jack White from the White Stripes presented Martin Carthy with a lifetime achievement award.

My point is that there's a fundamental lack of understanding of how to place a niche music in a populist context. A folk awards should not compromise on its nominations and recipients. It should compromise in its presenters and featured performers. (In fact, I don't even regard the latter as a compromise.)

If I were a BBC producer, and someone suggested to me that Barbara Dickson should present the awards, I would have assumed they were joking. I would have said absolutely no bloody way. It's like they are going out of their way to present themselves as fogeyish and out of touch.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 05:29 AM

Richard Thompson backing Donovan makes sense to me. For my money, the most interesting music Donovan made were those slightly jazzy arrangements with thick groovy double bass. Ever heard "Sunny Goodge Street"? That's a lovely piece of music, kind of like somehwere in between Eleanor Rigby and Astral Weeks-era Van Morrison.

Yes, Donovan is an utter prat who has made lots of dire music. But that's not to say he hasn't, just occasionally, made some pretty good music too.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: evansakes
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 04:49 AM

Leave Donovan alone...didn't you hear him say "I was fired with the mission to bring Celtic music back to popular culture and I'm so glad the new generations have taken up the torch"

If it wasn't for Donovan we probably wouldn't have had Bob Dylan. After all it didn't take long before what was going on down in St Ives reverberated around the world and eventually reached Greenwich Village.

Not only that...he taught the Beatles how to finger-pick guitar you know. He even appeared on 'Sergeant Pepper'.....

In both folk and popular music there's no doubting all roads lead back to Donovan.

Not in his own mind anyway....

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Mike Rogers
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 04:31 AM

Yes indeed, Danny Thompson bcaking Donovan was - what's the word - incongruous. I hope he (Danny) was well rewarded.
La Trollope - hey leather trousers are soooo cool dahling - has followed folk music for 3 years. As long as that. Only 50 odd years less than me. I've almost lost the will to live.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 04:00 AM

For me the highlight was Chris Woods rendition of "Hollow Point"
Forget about the crass celebs plugging their books or making cheap beard jokes.
Chris came on and nailed it with his finely honed critique of the Stockwell killing 2 years ago.
Lifetime achievement award?
Danny Thompson for agreeing to play with Donovan.
Complete pro, Young Danny!

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 07:56 PM

Yep, that nails it.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards Demo 7th Feb
From: Noreen
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 07:27 PM

Simon Mayo's blog: A day for bellowing

Worth posting the whole thing, I think; it's not that long.

A tad bleary, welcome to Tuesday. A late evening of course at the Folk Awards last night. I hope you enjoyed the show from the Brewery (Mike Harding's confession was really rather fine) and then the show itself. As ever, it featured the combination of superb, wonderfully performed music and extraordinarily misjudged speeches. A great number of times I was moved to think 'It's not about you!'. The speeches from the winners were always charming and humble but so many times the prize givers got the tone all wrong (step forward Tamsin Greig, Joanna Trollope and others) resulting in embarrassed glances from the gathered folkies. Say hello, announce the winner and get off.

Anyway the show's highlights for me were the stunning, and ghostly white, Laura Marling, Chris Wood, Bellowhead and Port Isaac's Fisherman's Friends who managed to make everyone laugh and then then sing lustily. Top stuff.