Folkwaves discussed on 'Feedback'

Subject: Folkwaves discussed on 'Feedback'
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 01:02 PM

Thought folks would like to know that the cancellation of Folkwaves (as well as other folk and "specialist music" programmes) was discussed on BBC Radio 4's "Feedback" programme today (Fri 4 Feb).

Interested? You can Listen Again or download the podcast (it's ~20-21 minutes in) or hear the repeat broadcast at 8 pm on Sun 6 Feb.

There are soundbites from protesters (live ones as well as letter-writers) and the Mummers Play, and an interview with Stuart Thomas. Interesting listening, IMHO.

Subject: RE: Folkwaves discussed on 'Feedback'
From: Brian Peters
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 01:19 PM

A predictably poor response from Mr. Thomas, who failed to address the important point that Folkwaves provides information on live gigs in the local area. Putting Jez Lowe on their drivetime slot is fine, but that isn't a substitute for a dedicated programme that folk music fans can make a point of tuning into. But, as is usual for BBC spokespeople appearing on 'Feedback', the attitude is one of "We've made the decision and you'll just have to put up with it". I'd be interested to see Stuart Thomas's alleged stack of emails welcoming the replacement programme.

Subject: RE: Folkwaves discussed on 'Feedback'
From: Old Vermin
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 02:16 PM

The man referred to the folk community as being tight and well-organised. Implication seemed to be that such people are not to be given too much influence in what the BBC deigns to do.

Wasn't wholly convinced by his argument for professional production on the main national channels. If it's that polished or, more important, relevant why were people choosing a local product instead? Seems to me to value presentation over content.

Subject: RE: Folkwaves discussed on 'Feedback'
From: Tootler
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 03:13 PM

More snippets I picked up

"Folk music continues to be broadcast on the mainstream radio..." - well ------- sort of. A cop out.

"Local radio is journalism led...speech based...dotted through with music..." (wriggling as he is clearly implying that music o/p generally is being reduced on local radio)

"still folk elsewhere... other local stations have folk..." ----- Oh yeah! What about the other local folk programmes that have been discontinued.

It's not only folk. It's quite clear that other minority music genres (except for classical which has its own channel) are being squeezed as well.

Overall I feel the BBC is neglecting the terms of its charter and are chasing the mass audience. I feel that the BBC are not entirely to blame in this but it is ultimately politicians (Oh! and "The Daily Rant") who are obsessed with costs and not value or service who are a major driver behind these trends. In the terms of Oscar Wilde (I believe it was), they know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Subject: RE: Folkwaves discussed on 'Feedback'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 04:49 PM

Interestingly. Stuart Thomas E Mailed me this morning to alert me to the Feedback programme. He sounded quite proud to be on it! Sadly everything he said sounded like a bloke cycling backwards on a penny farthing!
It's all there on the FaceBook group if you want to listen. And anyone who is in London Town on monday, come play dance and sing at the Folk Awards bash Chiswell Street (Moorgate tube is nearest)

Subject: RE: Folkwaves discussed on 'Feedback'
From: Surreysinger
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 10:57 PM

I thought that Chris Sweeney sounded polished and prepared. Stuart Thomas, however, ummed and erred like a good un. One interesting feature of the interview (in my view anyway) was the fact that Chris took him to task on the matter of fulfilling the BBC Trust requirements for local radio, which specify that after peak hours,( which is defined as after 7 pm) local radio SHOULD include specialist music programming. He however argued the point and suggested that "local radio CAN include specialist music" .. two very different words. SHOULD is a proscriptive - CAN is not. So, by substituting the (incorrect) word "can" he is suggesting that he/they have carte blanche NOT to include it. Very very different.

To suggest that a couple of Jez Lowe songs (nice though that may be) lost within the morass of a drive by type programme, comprising odds and ends of non-local news items, MOR music and interviews with psychic poodles (honestly!) means that they are not abandoning folk music is ridiculous to say the very least. Whereas some of us would queue up (and did) to listen to a well produced programme of varied folk music,with local news regarding the music concerned, I hardly think that we would care to sit and listen to the wallpaper/bland stuff that is now being served up in it's place on the off-chance that there might, just might (if we were very very lucky) be one or two songs played somewhere in there. Like finding a needle in a haystack!

He also suggested that they were still including other specialist music - the one being cited being a programme for new music from local bands IIRC.Hardly specialist music. They have also retained a soul music programme (which I notice he did not mention). The latter has no apparent specific local connections. Since some of the excuses for removing the programme were that "folk music did not originate" in the area one wonders at the retention of the soul music programme.

I was amused that he referred to the folk fraternity being well organised. As I observed elsewhere, on the whole in my experience, we are actually quite compartmentalised normally. In this instance it started off as individual anger and views being vented, coalescing into a Facebook support group which now has over 2100 members (a number being ex-pats or others around the globe, or in other parts of the country who had had the opportunity to listen to the programme on line - notwithstanding it's local nature. A reflection of the quality of the programme which has been ditched).

So sorry Mr Thomas - still not impressive.

Subject: RE: Folkwaves discussed on 'Feedback'
From: Surreysinger
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 11:01 PM

PS Ralphie - I'm assuming you mean play, sing and dance _outside_ the bash .. or were we going to attempt a real Commando Trad raid on the actual event itself ? (Come to think of it, I rather like the idea. But no doubt it would be out on the ear in the street almost immediately!). LOL

Per postings Ralphie put elsewhere, people will be meeting up outside the venue from mid-afternoon and on into the evening, with support from the supporters of the protest against the removal of the AWIL programme in London - see separate thread.

Subject: RE: Folkwaves discussed on 'Feedback'
From: GUEST,Andrew Smith
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 01:22 PM

Thanks for highlighting Stuart Thomas' "explanation" on 'Feedback'.

Subject: RE: Folkwaves discussed on 'Feedback'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 02:43 PM

Anything we may do will be outside the venue. It would not promote our cause if we stormed the place!!!
Keeping the Moral High ground here!
Ralphie (sounding a bit like Ghandi!)

Subject: RE: Folkwaves discussed on 'Feedback'
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 06:27 PM

I listened to half of Mr Thomas' platidudinous crap in a windswept car park in an out of town mega shopping centre, before giving up and hitting PC World, where he probably has a contract for the musak.

Thank God Feedback wasn't on while I was on the motorway, my Lane Departure Warning might have been triggered.

Subject: RE: Folkwaves discussed on 'Feedback'
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 07:28 PM

Surreysinger, your post above (@ 10.57 pm) is such a comprehensive rebuttal of Mr Thomas's various excuses that I would love to hear it read on Feedback. Perhaps you would copy & paste it (with perhaps a slight tweak here & there to adjust for the different audience) and send it to them... please?

Subject: RE: Folkwaves discussed on 'Feedback'
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 08:45 PM

@Ralphie : I can't make up my mind if you thought I was seriously suggesting storming the barricades ? I haven't got my Les Mis costume ready, so it'll have to wait. Blimey, I'm not that sort of a person, as I would have thought was evident ... LOL! It was meant to be a mildly humorous retort to your comment about appearing AT the Awards... so you can continue to adopt the lotus position as Gandhi. Hope your dhoti is clean ?

@Yorkshire Yankee. I'll give it some thought. Before I'd do that I would need to listen to Mr Thomas' comments again , and check the Trust charter rubric ... and then draft the appropriate email. All of which would be quite time consuming, so no chance until Tuesday at the earliest. The other thing that makes me slightly reluctant is the fact that I'm out of area for the station in question (although supporting), and with the emphasis on locality, I wonder whether I am the right person to be doing it?

Subject: RE: Folkwaves discussed on 'Feedback'
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 10:45 PM

Surreysinger, two thoughts:
1) It was on a national programme, so (though I do take your point) I think it's fair game for someone not in that area to be heard from (especially to point out -- as you do -- the "should" vs "can" aspect of the remit, as well as a number of other basic flaws in Mr Thomas's comments).

2) I respect and admire your thorough approach, but I also think what you have already written is quite good; it would be better to send it in with a few tweaks than to not send anything because of the additional time involved.

Cheers,

YY