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Origins: ballad from Scott's Heart of Midlothian

GUEST 08 Feb 11 - 06:22 PM
Steve Gardham 09 Feb 11 - 12:48 PM
MGM·Lion 09 Feb 11 - 01:20 PM
GUEST,leeneia 09 Feb 11 - 01:45 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Feb 11 - 02:50 PM
Jack Campin 09 Feb 11 - 03:02 PM
GUEST,leeneia 10 Feb 11 - 10:47 AM
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Subject: Origins: ballad from Scott's Heart of Midlothian
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 06:22 PM

I've just been reading Walter Scott's novel "Heart of Midlothian" (which you can see here if you like: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/6944/6944-h/6944-h.htm)
I'm pretty sure he improvises some of his ballad lyrics, but I suspect they have traditional sources-- I just can't find them all. Can anyone tell me the origins of this song?
                When the glede's in the blue cloud,
                      The lavrock lies still;
                When the hound's in the green-wood,
                      The hind keeps the hill.
                There's a bloodhound ranging Tinwald wood,
                      There's harness glancing sheen;
                There's a maiden sits on Tinwald brae,
                      And she sings loud between.
                O sleep ye sound, Sir James, she said,
                      When ye suld rise and ride?
                There's twenty men, wi' bow and blade,
                      Are seeking where ye hide.
Is it a version of something more familiar?


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Subject: RE: Origins: ballad from Scott's Heart of Midlothian
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 12:48 PM

I very much doubt it. Most of Scott's lyrics in his books were his alone, other than the Minstrelsy, and even some of that is his.


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Subject: RE: Origins: ballad from Scott's Heart of Midlothian
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 01:20 PM

Yes, Steve, but they often had traditional antecedents. Marmion is not a novel; but is a long narrative poem. The well-known ballad interpolated in it, Lochinvar, is a reworking of Scott's own own of Child 221, Katharine Jaffray aka The Green Wedding.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: Origins: ballad from Scott's Heart of Midlothian
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 01:45 PM

ornithological note: a glede is now known as a red kite.

Like Steve, I feel sure that Sir Walter Scott wrote this himself. It's too professional a job to be an old ballad. And if the 'Sir James' being mocked here is one of the Stewarts, it would have been dangerous to sing it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: ballad from Scott's Heart of Midlothian
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 02:50 PM

"And if the 'Sir James' being mocked here is one of the Stewarts, it would have been dangerous to sing it."
The ballads are full of kings, lords or other gentry who are utter bastards, eejits, pathetic figures - Queen Eleanor's Confession..... a worm's eye view of 'our betters'.
I suppose it would be pure wishful thinking on my part to suggeest it was another missing bit to Bonny James Campbell?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Origins: ballad from Scott's Heart of Midlothian
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 03:02 PM

Maybe it's related to "Sir James the Rose"?

Leeneia - with the exceptions of Mary and James VII, Scottish royalty were impervious to insult and didn't give a damn how they were satirized. But I see no reason to suspect they were referred to in this song. Scott invented Stuart hagiography anyway, and wouldn't have taken the mickey out of them.


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Subject: RE: Origins: ballad from Scott's Heart of Midlothian
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 10:47 AM

Okay.


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