BS: Celebrating Racism

Subject: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 09:40 AM

Here's to the land you've torn out the heart of
Mississippi find yourself another country to be part of.
      -Phil Ochs



License plate proposed to honor KKK leader
EMILY WAGSTER PETTUS, Associated Press
Thursday, February 10, 2011

JACKSON, Miss. (AP) — A fight is brewing in Mississippi over a proposal to issue specialty license plates honoring Confederate Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, who was an early leader of the Ku Klux Klan.

The Mississippi Division of Sons of Confederate Veterans wants to sponsor a series of state-issued license plates to mark the 150th anniversary of the Civil War, which it calls the "War Between the States." The group proposes a different design each year between now and 2015, with Forrest slated for 2014.

"Seriously?" state NAACP president Derrick Johnson said when he was told about the Forrest plate. "Wow."

Forrest, a Tennessee native, is revered by some as a military genius and reviled by others for leading the 1864 massacre of black Union troops at Fort Pillow, Tenn. Forrest was a Klan grand wizard in Tennessee after the war...


More here:
http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Miss-license-plate-proposed-to-honor-KKK-leader-1006714.php

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 09:45 AM

He WAS a genius in military terms. Doesn`t stop him from being wrong. I can`t see the license plate being all that popular. Remember, it ain`t hats that are pointed, it`s the heads.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 09:54 AM

I can`t see the license plate being all that popular.

Check out the Mississippi State Flag & then get back to me on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 10:44 AM

Yeah, Greg, finding myself living among a population of folks who still think its perfectly okay to9 call black people niggers nothin' surprises me anymore...

It hasn't been all that long since the "Greensboro Massacre" (1979) when Klansmen opened fire at anti-Klan protesters, killing 5 and seriously injurin' many others... No one was even arrested!!!

This is kinda what scares me... If the people in the US were to try to pull off what the Egyptians are doing I can see Redneck Nation mobilizing as the "Racist Militia" and gunning folks down just as they did in Greensboro... I mean, the right wing has done everything in it's power to keep Redneck Nation pissed off and buying guns...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 11:15 AM

I gotta wonder about the Sons of Confederate Vets, Bobert.

I mean, are they a front for the Neo-Confederate historical delusional revisionists and perpetraters of the Lost Cause myth? Are they simple racists? Or are they just ignorant, uncaring assholes with no knowledge of historical fact?

The last case might actually be the most demoralizing & frightening.........

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 11:15 AM

"War Between the States"? Don't they mean "War of Northern Aggression"?

(Wikipedia has an interesting article: Naming the American Civil War.)

I'm kinda partial to "The Late Unpleasantness" myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 11:27 AM

Actually, its officially "The War Of The Rebellion".

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 12:36 PM

Check out the Mississippi State Flag & then get back to me on this.


Greg, I still think it`s much ado about nothing. Canada, certainly in the west, has many cars sporting Confederate flags. Most folks just laugh at them. I am having difficulty knowing whether Forrest is being `honoured` (on a license plate--sheesh, some honour) because he was a good military tactician or because he was a pointy-head leader. Beats me. As for the flag in Mississippi, it`s bloody ugly. Anyway, I guess people in Mississippi will have the choice to by these vanity plates or not. Can`t see that they`ll sell many, however. BUT, I`ve been wrong before.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 12:47 PM

I thought I was wrong once, Bruce- but I was wrong. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 12:47 PM

I dunno, Bruce- maybe they're planning for a whole series of "Southern Heroes": The honor Byron De La Beckwith license plate, the honor Samuel Bowers license plate, the honor "Preacher" Edgar Ray Killen license plate.

HEY, KIDS! COLLECT THE WHOLE SET !!

Gotta disagree with ya on this one, Bruce - I think its some ado about a great deal.

And here's to the people of Mississippi
Who say the folks up north, they just don't understand
And they tremble in the darkness at the thunder of the Klan
The sweating of their souls can't wash the blood from off their hands
For they smile and shrug their shoulders at the murder of a man

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 12:51 PM

You might be right, Greg. I hope you`re not. I read that there are already vanity license plates like the one proposed for Forrest but with different political spins, but I don`t know how many sales they have.

You have generally been righter than me about this stuff, Greg, so I will defer to your greater wisdom.

Trust you`re well and mostly behaving yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 12:59 PM

Having been raised and currently living in the South I know that the Confederate flag is a humiliating symbol to most of the black folks living here... Their history is so intertwined with racism and that flag that it is not only insensitive but insulting... But beyond that, it is completely boorish behavior...

I mean, if I am doing something that causes someone else to be hurt and it is brought to my attention, I'm going to quit doing it... That's what caring/pro-human people do... There isn't any wiggle room there...

I don't buy this "Heritage, not hate" bullshit because 99.99% of the people who say that really have no understanding of even basic American History and probably can't even correctly identify the 3 branches of government...

As a southern boy I am ashamed of my southern neighbors who are not only clueless but proud of being clueless...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 01:05 PM

Ain`t no law against stupidity, Bobert. Unfortunate, but there ya have it.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 01:19 PM

The Confederate flag also is used in celebration of the brave men who fought on the losing side, many of whom died during the War. They have just as much right to be remembered by their descendants as those who fought on the Union side.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 01:27 PM

A great pity that the South lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 01:28 PM

Oh, really, Q??? Fine, fly it at the battlefields... I have no problems with that... That's the only exception...

BTW, anyone who thinks that flying this flag anywhere by anyone who thinks it's their right ought to have to live just one day as a black person living in the South...Just one day!!!

It's boorish!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 01:31 PM

Hey, if they let anti-abortion fuckwits sport "Choose Life" license plates, I'm not gonna begrudge letting Bubba have his N.B. Forrest plate as well. If people feel compelled to give their state governments extra money over and above what standard-issue license plates cost just for the privilege of advertising their idiocy, it's fine with me. In fact, I sorta like the idea. It's the next best thing to having a plate that says "I'm a fuckin' idiot!"

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 01:47 PM

Yes, oh really!- Bobble-head.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: gnu
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:02 PM

BWL... hahahahaa

999... Confederate flags in Alberta... we see em here too in New Brunswick but I think they commemorate The Duke Boys (google Dukes Of Hazard iffn ya don't know them Dukes). Again, like BWL said eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:03 PM

They have just as much right to be remembered by their descendants as those who fought on the Union side.

You betcha- just as long as its also remembered that the secesh were fighting to maintain racism, white supremacy and slavery as a positive good.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:22 PM

How many folks here grand daddies or daddies fought in the unCivil War???

None, that's how many... This idea that folks are memorializing their loved ones is more mythology... No one alive here in Mudville knows any family member who fought in that war... None... Nada... Zipola...

I wished we had black members here in lilly white Mudville who would articulate the pain that the Confederate flag cuases black folks in the South... We don't ... Maybe that's why some folks think they can get away with thinking it's okay for Redneck Nation to continue flying their symbol of racism without having to know that it causes suffering...

(But, Boberdz... If there were than the same argument you have used would be wrong because none of them would have had daddies or grand daddies who were slaves...)

More bad thinking... Jim Crow ain't exactly dead and buried... Black folks know that there are one heck of a lot of white racists out there... They have gotten these constant reminders over the years... I mean, the 1979 Greensboro Massacre, as I have pointed out, was one...

But the real issue is why do people feel they have a right to do things that remind black folks of stuff that black folks would love to just let pass... Like I said, you want fly a Confederate flag at a battlefield then fine... That is heritage... It is history... It shows respect for people who died in the war even if they died defending slavery... Hey, black folks can understand these things...

But black folks can't understand why people feel it's perfectly okay to slap that bigass racist symbol on the back of their pickup trucks and Camaros...

I can't believe there are people here who really don't get this???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Wesley S
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:30 PM

Look at it this way - If the state does approve these plates it will be a lot easier to spot the idjets among us.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:38 PM

Interesting thread, I've just been watching a TV programme about the "Scotch/ Irish" settlers who fought on both sides in the Civil War, although most fought for the Confederacy.
According to the commentary, the slavery issue was not a great motivator for these people, who were more intersted in their freedom and pioneer spirit being diluted by Unionist government...more of a cultural issue I suppose. Most of the foot soldiers who fought and died would never have been in a position to own slaves...most were almost as poor as the slaves themselves.

Another time, another place, It is illogical to view historical issues through modern eyes and with modern perceptions.

I would be intested to hear some good discussion here from the US members..... not just the usual political propaganda.    Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:49 PM

It depends on what pushes your particular buttons, Bobert, and that's about all there is to it. I am constantly annoyed by seeing decals on (a minority of) Canadian cars exhorting me to "Support Our Troops!", because I am utterly opposed to their presence in Afghanistan, and I know what those decals mean: they mean support for that war. But so what? I have to live with the fact that not everyone thinks the way I do, and in a democracy everyone can freely express the way he thinks, correct? If not, is it a democracy?

You cannot force other people to walk neatly inside your personal comfort zone all the time.

******

Greg, I see no particular reason why the American Civil War should not be referred to as "The War Between the States". That's what it was. The northern states fought the southern states, because the southern states wanted to separate into a different nation, and the northern states objected to them doing so. It was, literally, a war between 2 coalitions of American states. There is nothing particularly redneck, racist, or anything else like that about calling it the War Between the States. In fact, it's a totally neutral label for that war...as is "The Civil War". Nothing racist is implied by either label.

As for "The War of Northern Aggression", that is pretty much a literal description of the tactics that ensued following the outbreak of hostilities. Virtually all the fighting was done on southern soil, and resulted from Northern invasion of that soil...aside from Lee's 2 short and abortive attempts to counterattack against the North...(Antietam and Gettysburg), both of which led to his forces quickly returning south with crippling losses. The South never had enough men or materiel to conquer the North or to adequately defend themselves from it either, so they were forced to stand on the defensive and suffer a long series of Northern invasions and grueling battles of attrition which eventually crushed them. How could Southerners not have seen such a situation as a war of northern aggression? They were defending their own homes against an invading army, so what else would they see it as?

In one's efforts to oppose racism, which are laudable efforts, one should not go totally blind to what the people who lived back in that time were going through and simply characterize the southerners as racist monsters just because they were unlucky enough to be on the losing side in that war.

Nathan Beford Forrest was an unrepentant racist, for sure. And in being so, he wasn't terribly unusual at the time (there were lots of unrepentant racists living on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line). What did make him unusual, however, was that he was an absolutely brilliant military commander. It's not surprising that some Southerners still remember him for that, regardless of his views on race.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:51 PM

How many folks here grand daddies or daddies fought in the unCivil War??? None, that's how many.

Not quite, Bobert - my Great(or not so great?) Grandfather served in the Pennsylvanis Light Artillery. And I remember quite well what my grandfather had to say about him & his experiances in the war.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 03:02 PM

Strangely enough, my mother's family (Canadian) had a member who went to fight in the American Civil War...on the Southern side. A fair number of Canadians volunteered for both sides in that war, and they had many different reasons for doing so. Some did so because of family connections on one side or the other. Some did so to free the Blacks. Some did so because the USA was seen as an old enemy of Canada and the British Crown, going back to the War of 1812 and the American Revolution. People who saw it that way tended to sympathize with the South, not because of any racial issues, but because of other political concerns. There was similarly much sympathy for the Southern cause in the UK, again because of past conflicts with the USA, while at the same time the English population did not sympathize with the Southern practice of slavery.

It wasn't just a one-issue situation. It was quite complex.

If the Southern politicians had had the brains (and the nerve) to end slavery and free the southern Blacks, they could have put their cause on much stronger ground, gained a lot more soldiers to fight for the South, and would probably have gotten much more substantial help from England and France, both of which would have preferred a permanently divided American colossus to a single, united USA. That's just ordinary power politics. Competing empires always prefer it if their most powerful competitors are divided or weakened in some fashion.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 03:06 PM

I should have said if the Southern politicians had had the vision (and the nerve) to end slavery...

It wasn't a question of not having brains. Many of them were very intelligent men. It was a question of them lacking vision...the ability to see outside their accustomed cultural mindset.

That's the problem people usually have. It isn't that they are stupid, necessarily...it's that they are culturally blind, unwilling to change in the face of changing conditions.

Dogs tend to be like that too. ;-) Habits are not easy to break.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 04:46 PM

So, Q, because your great grandaddy, who you didn't even know, fought in the war 150 years ago, that gives Redneck Nation the right to continue displying their hatred of black people???

Beam me up, Scotty...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 05:21 PM

A great pity that the South lost.

Yes. We'd have those fuckers out of our hair, and the Rethugs wouldn't have won nearly so many presidential elections since 1964. If we asked them nicely do you think they'd secede next week?

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 05:32 PM

I think a permanently divided USA would have been a blessing for most of its neighbours, near and far, because the two halves of it would have devoted most of their paranoia and military aggression toward each other ever since, thus taking the heat off the rest of us, as it were...and they'd not have become the Superpower that the USA is now.

As a later side effect, Germany and Austria might also have won the First World War on the continent of Europe (they'd never have seriously threatened the UK), and that would have removed any possibility of the Nazis ever coming to power, while I doubt it would have made any appreciable difference to the general welfare of either Englishmen or Canadians in the years following. It just would have been another humiliating defeat for France, that's all, and they'd have survived it.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 05:49 PM

BTW, who says the South lost???

I mean, look around you and the Southern Strategy... Look at just how far right the corportists have taken *US* using that Southern Strategy over and over and over???

They say that the "South will rise again" and it has and it has its boot heels on the necks of those Volvo drivin, latte drinkin', commie eastern elitists...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 06:10 PM

I suppose Georgia will want Lester Maddox on license plates... with crossed axe handles.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 07:10 PM

Sure, sure. Just wait till Chongo gets elected, and you see HIS smilin' face lookin' back atcha from every license plate. THEN you will have something to complain about, buster!

I don't look at it as "the South won", Bobert, cos you know who won the Civil War? The big industrialists and bankers in the industrial Northeast won that war, and they are still winning it now, only they're pushing rightwing imperial policy all over the world. They are the guys who built the armaments that won the Civil War and that have won other major wars since, and they didn't do it to free Black people or anyone else, but they are delighted to enlist the aid of dumbass ignorant jingoistic Southerners, Westerners, and Northerners to back their imperial policy, you betcha! ;-) Boss Hawg runs the $ySStem, Bobert, as you well know, and Boss Hawg's central command structure has always been primarily in the industrial Northeast, Washington DC, and more recently, California. If they pay lip service to "liberal" causes to get local support, it is just for the sake of divide and conquer, not because they really believe in anything that could truly be called liberal.

Lincoln foresaw what was coming, and he warned against it, saying that bankers and industrialists were taking over the government and destroying America's democratic traditions. He was right. He didn't live too long after saying so.

Kennedy said something similar, and he didn't live too long either.

Eisenhower warned us about it also, but only just as he was leaving office.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 07:13 PM

Much of what Little Hawk says is true; moreover at the time states rights were of considerable importance to large parts of the population.
I have two great grandfathers who fought on the Union side; my wife has two who fought for the Confederacy. When we were children, families on both sides went to veterans' grave sites and attended the parades which still featured one or two veterans of the conflict.

They will not be forgotten for a generation or two yet. My wife's generation remains strong in the UDS and tells the stories from their parents of the War and Reconstruction carpetbaggers. The South did not rebuild until WW2 brought industry and shifts in population.

On my side, the Union side, the GAR was important still to my parents generation. The Independence Day parades prominantly featured surviving veterans of the war.
.
The men who fought on both sides deserve the same respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 07:34 PM

Fine... Respect them... Put up shrines to them... Have family get togethers and parade around in ya'll's uniforms and flags...

But please don't lend a voice to intolerant racists in your respect because it is absolutely disrespectful to black America, which BTW, has been seriously disrespected going back to 1619...

Yo, LH... Thinks about it this way... The unCivil War really didn't end at Appomattox... That was just one long battle that was won and it is interesting to point out that it was won by Boss Hog (the bankers and the corporatists) and seems that Boss Hog is still winnin' that part of the war but by using emotionally charged wedge issues to keep the epsilons all pissed off and armed and voting but in the little epsilonian minds of the Southerners who vote against their own interests, yeah, they think they are winning???

Like I have said in the past, if Southern Man ever figures out Boss Hog's little pea-under-the-shell-game, he's gonna be really pissed off...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 08:06 PM

That's for sure, Bobert!

Fear of the Black man has long been used (and fear of the White man too, for that matter) to manipulate both White and Black voters, and it's been used over and over again. That is more of the divide and conquer tactic being waged on the minds of the American public.

The struggle for racial equality actually lasted over 100 years! It kicked off in a big way with the Civil War in the 1860s, but after the Civil War was over the Blacks in the South continued to mostly live in a miserable way even though they weren't officially slaves any longer. Segregation remained in force, and most Blacks lived in poverty, doing the same kind of work they had done before the war, and being treated as second-class citizens. The fight to end segregation was won almost exactly 100 years later, in the 1960s. That's how long it really took to accomplish what the abolitionists had set out to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 08:08 PM

The struggle for racial equality continues.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 08:14 PM

Indeed it does. It may continue forever, although I have been in one place where I saw real racial equality: Cuba. How can I say that? Well, because I felt it palpably when I was there, that's how. It was subtle and yet quite obvious, merely in the sense of the complete ease I could sense between the Black Cubans and the Hispanic Cubans and anyone else at all that was there. There was no perceivable color line in that country.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 08:21 PM

They do a lot of things in Cuba we might be well to imitate in this country.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,marks (on the road)
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 10:41 PM

The Mariel boatlift of 1980 comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 10:49 PM

As does the Bay of Pigs, Iran-Contra, and the Shock and Awe campaign over Iraq.

No nation is perfect, and none is above criticism.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 11:29 PM

Yeah, LH... With Jim Crow and now the Tea Party, there's good reason for
black people to have those "old feelings"...

I mean, 150 years ago today the "Peace Conference" convened at the Willard Hotel in Washington, D.C to try to head off what would be later known as the "Civil War"... There were big shots from the South and big shots from the North... After 3 days of procedural wrangling nothing was accomplished, everyone shook hands and then were shooting at each other a month later...

Some things just don't change...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 11:45 PM

I think it's no exaggeration to say, Bobert, that the one single thing which has damaged American society the most is the tragic history of slavery, the Civil War, and race relations before then and ever since then. It is (along with what happened to the Indians) the darkest chapter in American history, and the trouble it has caused is not over yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: J-boy
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 12:30 AM

You are absolutely correct, LH. America's original sin it remains and will be as long as this republic exists.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:04 AM

Shhhhhhhsssshhhhh!!!

We're not supposed to be talkin' about this stuff... Perfectly okay for Bubba to fly his flags but not okay to talk about America's sins???

B~

B

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 10:09 AM

Perhaps Mississippi can use the image of Forrest** from THIS on the license plate.

And maybe incorporate THIS as well.


** "The middle figure is Nathan Bedford Forrest... He wears his Confederate uniform, with a lash— symbolizing slavery —in his back pocket, and stands ready to plunge a knife— symbolizing the Confederate war effort, "The Lost Cause"— into his Black victim. On Forrest's coat is a medal honoring his command at Fort Pillow— symbolizing Confederate atrocities against Black soldiers. In the background, Nast includes a burning freedmen's school, representing the violent resistance of white Southerners to the freedom and advancement of Blacks in society. Forrest was one of the organizers of the Ku Klux Klan." http://blackhistory.harpweek.com/7illustrations/reconstruction/ThisIsAWhiteMansGov.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:27 AM

Haley Barbour faces questions on KKK license plate
(AP) Feb 15, 2011

Even before Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour announces whether he intends to run for president, he's facing a run of press scandals just like most confirmed candidates endure on the campaign trail. First there was the flap over the Mississippi-approved vanity license plate heralding a leader of the Ku Klux Klan---and now comes a report that Barbour, in his earlier career as a D.C. power lobbyist, represented the Mexican government in a push to render U.S. immigration law more accommodating to Mexican residents who had entered the country illegally.

On Monday, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) called for Barbour to condemn a proposed state license plate honoring honoring Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, a Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard. As of mid-morning Tuesday, Barbour had not yet issued a public statement on the proposal, which is being pushed by the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

And in revisiting his earlier appraisal of the civil-rights era as "not that bad" in Mississippi, Barbour reiterated it was truthful to his own youthful experience: "I was asked about my childhood and I had a great childhood," Barbour said.


GOP Gov. Barbour refuses to denounce license plate pitch honoring KKK leader
By Sahil Kapur
Wednesday, February 16th, 2011 -- 9:30 am

WASHINGTON – Mississippi Republican Gov. Haley Barbour, a potential 2012 presidential candidate, declined to denounce a group's proposal that the state issue a license plate honoring an early Ku Klux Klan leader.

The idea, put forth by the white heritage group Sons of Confederate Veterans, would create a state-issued license plate by 2014 in honor of Confederate General and KKK leader Nathan Bedford Forrest. It would include a car tag and a series of other Civil War license plates.

Mississippi lawmakers are considering the proposal, and Barbour said it's unlikely to be approved but refused to stake out a position against it.

"I don't go around denouncing people," Barbour told reporters Tuesday in his home state when asked about the idea, according to The Associated Press.

The NAACP's Mississippi chapter president Derrick Johnson called on the governor to denounce it.

The Southern Poverty Law Center has identified the Sons of Confederate Veterans as a "hate group" known for its racist and white supremacist activities.

Barbour is the current chairman of the Republican Governors Association and an important player within the GOP. He's a former chairman of the Republican National Committee.

This isn't the first time the Mississippi Republican has found himself in the center of a race-related controversy. During an interview in December, he praised the Citizens Council, a pro-segregation white group that fought against civil rights, for "refraining from using violence"[sic]. Barbour later walked back the comments.

Barbour this week came under fire after it was revealed that his firm lobbied on behalf of Mexico in 2001 and 2002 for a program that would have helped undocumented immigrants gain legal residency in the United States.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: LilyFestre
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:46 AM

Racism is alive and well in the northern states too. There are people within a mile of our nothern Pennsylvania home who fly the Confederate flag....pretty sure it's not about southern pride in this neck of the woods. A few years back, a major KKK group (maybe a leader...I forget) was active in a nearby town as well.

I don't understand it, never will. Interesting reading on this thread.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:46 PM

Pride and the need we seem to need for a heritage affects some people to extreme degrees. My first thought on reading this thread was Randy Newman's Rednecks, I was going to quote just one line but I'll post the entire song and bold/italic the line that popped into my head. Its a strange phenomenon that drives us to feel the need for a history of some sort and to let that history define the present.....................

Rednecks

....Randy Newman

Last night I saw Lester Maddox on a TV show
With some smart ass New York Jew
And the Jew laughed at Lester Maddox
And the audience laughed at Lester Maddox too
Well he may be a fool but he's our fool
If they think they're better than him they're wrong
So I went to the park and I took some paper along
And that's where I made this song

We talk real funny down here
We drink too much and we laugh too loud
We're too dumb to make it in no Northern town
And we're keepin' the niggers down

We got no-necked oilmen from Texas
And good ol' boys from Tennessee
And colleges men from LSU
Went in dumb. Come out dumb too
Hustlin' 'round Atlanta in their alligator shoes
Gettin' drunk every weekend at the barbecues
And they're keepin' the niggers down

CHORUS
We're rednecks, rednecks
And we don't know our ass from a hole in the ground
We're rednecks, we're rednecks
And we're keeping the niggers down

Now your northern nigger's a Negro
You see he's got his dignity
Down here we're too ignorant to realize
That the North has set the nigger free

Yes he's free to be put in a cage
In Harlem in New York City
And he's free to be put in a cage on the South-Side of Chicago
And the West-Side
And he's free to be put in a cage in Hough in Cleveland
And he's free to be put in a cage in East St. Louis
And he's free to be put in a cage in Fillmore in San Francisco
And he's free to be put in a cage in Roxbury in Boston
They're gatherin' 'em up from miles around
Keepin' the niggers down

CHORUS


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 01:05 PM

Spaw, ya shoulda mentioned that "Rednecks" dates from 1973.

Sure gives ya a warm feeling to realize the progress that Mississippi and the nation have made in racial relations in the intervening 37 years, don't it?

Its not the need for a "history" as such, but the need for a fake, invented "heritage", and damn the facts of the matter. Barbour is a good exemplar - the civil-rights era as "not that bad" in Mississippi, " I had a great childhood"---- HEY, ASSHOLE - YOU WERE WHITE!!


Yup- the "New South"- the Klan in business suits instead of hoods.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:18 PM

So the opening poster has seen fit to re-open this instant-classic thread.    He must be looking for someone to disagree with him.    Far be it from me to disappoint.

Forrest was a slave-trader.   That is abominable.

He also fought hard and skillfully to defend slavery. That too is totally wrong.


However, the illustrious opening poster, and the others who say there is "no doubt" Forrest was an unreconstructed racist his whole life are showing the magnificently sloppy attitude towards research often seen around here.

I think it was Jeri who came up with a perfect description of what seems to be one of the opening poster's favorite pastimes:   "recreational outrage".

RO:   "a poster expresses righteous indignation and gets highly worked up over some issue, typically some news occurrence that is completely irrelevant to the person's own life and has no effect on that poster personally.. The poster derives (recreational) satisfaction from expressing outrage and moral indignation, frequently including a sense of moral superiority, thus differentiating Recreational Outrage from other forms of outrage."


Could hardly be a more snug fit.


At least we know what his middle initial is:   R:   Either for Recreational Outrage---or possibly for Red Queen:   "sentence first, verdict afterwards".



To be continued

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:39 PM

As I said, those who say confidently things like Forrest was an "unrepentant racist for sure" are showing signs of the antipathy to research often found around here.

From Nathan Bedford Forrest: A Biography, by Jack Hurst

p 385      "The reality is that over the length of his lifetime Nathan Bedford Forrest's racial attitudes probably developed more, and in the direction of liberal enlightenment, than those of most Americans in the nation's history."

This may well be overstating the point, and I do not necessarily agree with the statement.

But it is at least an open question--much to the discomfort of the knee-jerk commentators , starting with the opening poster, that we are honored to have on Mudcat.

Evidence?

I don't have much time--this computer is in demand by others. However, we can start with his public assertion in 1875 that "blacks should be allowed entry into the profession of law and anywhere else they were capable of going." Hurst p 385.

Similarly after 16 blacks were lynched after a brawl starting at an interracial picnic, Forrest was quoted as saying that if he "were entrusted with proper authority he would capture and exterminate the white marauders who disgrace their race by the cowardly murder of negroes."   Hurst p 361.



More later

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: J-boy
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:18 AM

Sounds like a really lousy picnic. Why didn't anyone bring quiche? But it's nice to hear that the man in question was upset with the actions of his mythical "race".

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 09:59 AM

Same old dance, oh Simple Seeker After Truth- you demand "evidence" from others, and provide absolutely none yourself.

Mr. Hurst's opinions, and yours, are not evidence.

The mass-murdering Grand Wizard's "death-bed conversion" is, to say the least, very convenient for the "Lost Cause", Neo-Confederate crowd.
If- and I stress the conditional- of course it couldn't have been a self-serving ploy to make himself more amenable to changed conditions & help in recouping his lost fortune, could it?

And even if true- so what? Does it erase everything that went before?

To be continued....

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 10:12 AM

Forrest died in 1877, after being gravely ill with diabetes for a long time.

RE: his 1875 statements: With one foot in the grave, many people who believe in God- as Forrest professed to do- are frightened enough to try to make peace with their maker.


See also
http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/0713.html

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 10:21 AM

.. the illustrious opening poster, and the others who say there is "no doubt" Forrest was an unreconstructed racist his whole life...

Where?

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 11:17 AM

So the opening poster has seen fit to re-open this instant-classic thread. He must be looking for someone to disagree with him.

Oh Simple Seeker, by what torturous means do you arrive at those conclusions from the posting of a news update gleaned from the Associated Press, et. al.??

Hey, I'm really getting your famous serial posting technique down pretty good, eh??

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 12:54 PM

Ron, the opener of this thread, a notorious inciter of ignorant outrage, also would have to know something of the origin of the KKK. The first Klans, organized by veterans of the War, fought against the evils of reconstruction and carpetbagging administation; it existed for about ten years, at which time the Forces Act caused it to disband and its activities were taken over by small groups with diverse objectives. It was this first klan to which the noted general, Bedford Forrest, was a leader.
However, the Klan objectives were met in the late 1870s when democratic southerners again took control of their governments.

It would serve us best to ignore threads started by this person and leave them to those who exist in a state of permanent outrage.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:22 PM

Have to disagree with you regarding Greg F. He's feisty as hell, but he makes sense most the time. Good friend, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:28 PM

I just saw a plate with the Confederate flag and a skull below it. Just
today. As gnu said, it's probably for the Dukes of Hazard. Then again,
the person who owned that car fits the "Mississippi of the North"
stereotype, because N.S. is sometimes nicknamed the "Mississippi of the
North".

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:32 PM

-fought against the evils of reconstruction and carpetbagging administation-

Oh, please Q-zer. Which "evils" were these? You've apparently swallowed the Neo-Confederate "Lost Cause" bullshit hook, line & sinker. Do read up on the REALITIES of the Reconstruction era some time. Any of Eric Foner's books will suffice, then the works in his bibliographies.

The KKK was a terrorist group formed to make sure that Blacks didn't exercise any of the rights they achieved after emancipation. Period.

Do read the 1868 testimony in Congress gathered regarding the activities of the Klan, too. Its readily available on line, and, shall we say, tends to contradict what you maintain.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:06 PM

Another original document worth reading at this time: South Carolina's declaration of secession, and make sure that you get to the bottom half.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 10:55 PM

Gee I feel like the Doublemint Twins:    stop, you're both wrong.    Isn't that what they said?. Something like that.

I can't accept the opening poster's view that Forrest was evil incarnate.

Nor can I accept Q's view that Southern whites after the Civil War were just trying to get back their rights.   Look, there is no doubt there was a continuing--and successful --campaign to disenfranchise and intimidate Southern blacks.

My only question is what part Forrest played in this campaign.   And by the way to point out to the opening poster, Mr. RO, (or perhaps I should just call him Red) and others of his attitude that General Forrest, like so many other historical figures, was not the cardboard cutout which seems to be the only kind of figure the illustrious poster is comfortable with.

I find the complexity of history to be fascinating. He seems to be ill at ease with anything not a stereotype--perhaps that goes with an addiction to RO.

As well as being allergic to research, and sharing the fruits of that work. Which, believe it or not, is not the same as listing books.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 11:05 PM

I assume , Mr. RO, by "mass-murdering" you are referring to Ft. Pillow.   Which is also not as simple as you prefer your history. Too bad.

And "death-bed" conversion is as usual your classic simplistic approach. Maybe you would like to see if Fox News can use your skills. Sounds like you'd fit right in.

I wonder if you'll ever be able to tell the difference between history and a comic book.

We can but hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: LadyJean
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 12:12 AM

I once did see Lester Maddox on a TV show. I wanted to wring his neck until he started talking about prison reform, which was a subject, obviously, dear to his heart.

When it came to the treatment of inmates he was a screaming progressive. I found myself, to my amazement, agreeing with every word Lester Maddox said!

There are few villains, and few heroes in this world.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:40 AM

And Hitler loved and was kind to dogs.

Time to re-invent him, as well, I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:55 AM

the opening poster's view that Forrest was evil incarnate.

Which he stated where, exactly?

Sorry Simple Seeker- your words, not mine. Do pay attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 12:06 PM

uncle tom -–noun
a black man considered by other blacks to be subservient to or to curry favor with whites.
Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2011.

Uncle Tom — n
A Black person whose behaviour towards White people is regarded as obsequious and servile
[C20: after the slave who is the main character of H.B. Stowe's novel Uncle Tom's Cabin (1852)]
Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition
2009 © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © Harper Collins

And, considering his record, this is inappropriate or not applicable because of what, precisely???

Thomas called Anita Hill a lot worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 12:07 PM

RATS! Wrong thread. Apologies, & Mud Elf Help Appreciated...

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 09:53 AM

Whistling Dixie—Again

Feb 17, 2011
By Eugene Robinson
© 2011, Washington Post Writers Group

Does Haley Barbour really have a warped and offensive view of America's racial history? Or is he just playing a dangerous game? Perhaps both.

The Mississippi governor, considered a potential Republican candidate for president in 2012, keeps displaying what appears to be an astonishing level of ignorance about our nearly 400-year struggle with issues of race. At this point, it's more than a pattern. It's either a pathology or a plan.

The latest outrage—and I don't use that word lightly—came Tuesday, when Barbour was asked to comment on a proposal for a state license plate honoring one of the most notorious figures of the Civil War era, Confederate Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest. I question whether any Confederate officer is worthy of such recognition, given that they were all committing treason. But even for the Sons of Confederate Veterans—the group proposing the license plate—Forrest should be an embarrassment.

For those who do not see the Civil War through a revisionist gauze of gallantry and Spanish moss, Forrest is an abomination. In 1864, his troops mowed down scores of black Union soldiers who were trying to surrender, in what became known as the Fort Pillow Massacre. After the war, Forrest became one of the founding fathers of the terrorist Ku Klux Klan—and was the group's first national leader, or "grand wizard."

Barbour was asked whether he would denounce the idea of honoring such a figure. "I don't go around denouncing people," he told reporters. "That's not going to happen."

But of course, Barbour denounces people all the time. Just last weekend, at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington, he denounced President Obama and the Democratic Party. Denouncing is part of any politician's job, and Barbour does it with brio and elan. Why would he refuse to say what he thinks about honoring a founder of the KKK?

This odd reticence follows three recent episodes in which Barbour was all too glib. Last April, he was asked to comment on Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell's "Confederate History Month" proclamation that neglected to mention slavery. McDonnell quickly apologized and corrected what he described as a serious error. Barbour, however, maintained that the controversy "doesn't amount to diddly" and that there was no need "to explain to people that slavery is a bad thing."

In September, Barbour claimed that "my generation" in the South went to "integrated schools" and that he "went to integrated college—never thought twice about it." Barbour actually went to all-white Mississippi schools. His college, the University of Mississippi, was integrated in 1962 when federal marshals escorted James Meredith onto campus while white students rioted in protest. When Barbour arrived a few years later, the few black students at Ole Miss were harassed and shunned.

In December, Barbour praised the White Citizens Council in his hometown of Yazoo City for its role in the fight over desegregation. In fact, the Citizens Councils throughout the South were implacable in their defense of segregation. They just favored nonviolent tactics—such as having "uppity" blacks fired from their jobs—instead of burning crosses....

Rest here: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/whistling_dixie_--_again_20110217/?ln

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 04:33 PM

So, are you, Mr. RO--after your recent fascinating monologue--- willing to admit Forrest may not have been a one-dimensional villain?

Or do you still insist on history as a comic book?

I thought I had seen you allege to be a history professor.    If so, your students' parents should demand their money back.

No offense meant, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 04:43 PM

Few people are one-dimensional, Oh Simple Seeker - with the possible exception of your imperious, hubristic self.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,ollaimh
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 01:42 PM

the civil war should properly be called the white supremists war. the only way they got states to vote for the csa was by excluding the black population from voting. the black population was more than forty per cent in some central southern states--but they were slavers.

anyone who says that the civil was was about anything other than slavery and white supremist racism is a hard core racist. was the modern tragedy is the hard core racists have successfully spun the issues so almost no one talks about the fact that thirty to forty five percent of the population couldn't vote.

there was no fight for local rights, only a fight for white supremist rights

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 10:26 PM

If you search the net you can find lists of famous Mississippians. In every field of endeavor there are contributions made by folks from the Magnolia State.   Forrest was from Tennessee as has been ponted out. Why in the hell would you celebrate the life of some piece of shit like Forrest, even if he did have second thoughts, when there are literally hundreds of people that need the recognition?


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 10:37 PM

Yeah... Why not Son House???

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 01:04 AM

From Wiki.....I figure I can trust it for this anyway.....

This list contains people who were born or lived in the U.S. state of Mississippi.

[edit] Activists and advocatesJames Bevel (1936–2008), leader in the 1960s Civil Rights Movement, (Itta Bena)
Ruby Bridges (born 1954), first African-American child to attend an all-white school in the South, (Tylertown)
Curtis Conway "C.C." Bryant (1917–2007), African-American civil rights leader, (Tylertown)[1]
Will D. Campbell (born 1924), Baptist minister and activist, (Amite County)
James Chaney (1943–1964), African-American civil rights worker, (Meridian)
Vernon Dahmer (1908–1966), African-American civil rights leader, (Hattiesburg)
Charles Evers (born 1922), African-American civil rights leader, (Decatur)
Medgar Evers (1925–1963), African-American civil rights leader, (Decatur)
Myrlie Evers-Williams (born 1933), African-American civil rights leader, (Vicksburg)
Dianna Freelon-Foster, African-American civil rights activist, Member of the Mississippi Civil Rights Education Commission, first female and first African-American mayor of her hometown (Grenada)[2]
C. L. Franklin (1915–1984), Baptist minister and father of Aretha Franklin, (Shelby)
Duncan M. Gray, Jr. (born 1926), Episcopal clergyman, civil rights activist, (Canton)
Percy Greene (1897–1977), journalist, activist, (Jackson)
Lawrence Guyot (born 1939), civil rights activist, (Pass Christian)
Fannie Lou Hamer (1917–1977), American voting rights activist, Civil rights leader, (Ruleville)
Winson Hudson (1916–2004), civil rights activist, (Harmony)
Clyde Kennard (1927–1963), civil rights activist, (Hattiesburg)
Ed King, civil rights activist, Tougaloo chaplain, (Jackson)[3]
James Meredith (born 1933), first African-American student at the University of Mississippi, (Kosciusko)
Anne Moody (born 1940), civil rights activist, (Centreville)
Ida B. Wells-Barnett (1862–1931), civil rights activist, Women's rights activist, (Holly Springs)
Donald Wildmon (born 1938), founder and chairman of the American Family Association, (Dumas)
[edit] Actors/ActressesJoey Lauren Adams (born 1968), (Oxford)
Joshua Alba (born 1982), (Biloxi)
Mary Alice (born 1941), (Indianola)
Dana Andrews (1909–1992), (Covington County)
Roscoe Ates (1895–1962), (Grange)
Katherine Bailess (born 1980), film and television actress (Vicksburg)
Laura Bailey (born 1981), voice actress, (Biloxi)
Earl W. Bascom (1906–1995), film and television (Columbia)
Willie Best (1916–1962), (Sunflower)
Jimmy Boyd (1939–2009), (McComb)
Don Briscoe (1940–2004), soap opera actor, (Yalobusha County)
Geneva Carr (born 1971), television and stage actress, (Jackson)
Finn Carter (born 1960), (Greenville)
Wally Cassell (born 1915), film and television actor
Lacey Chabert (born 1982), film and television actress (Purvis)
Wyatt Emory Cooper (1927–1978), Broadway actor, (Quitman)
Cassi Davis (born 1964), (Holly Springs)
Jason Dottley (born 1980), actor in Sordid Lives stage production and Logo television series, (Florence)[4]
John Dye (1963–2011), film and television actor (Amory)
Mary Elizabeth Ellis television and film actress, (Laurel)
Ruth Ford (1911–2009), stage and film actress, (Brookhaven)
Morgan Freeman (born 1937), Academy Award-winning actor (Charleston)
M. C. Gainey (born 1948), film and television actor, (Jackson)
Cynthia Geary (born 1965), actress (Jackson)
Allie Grant (born 1994), (Tupelo)
Gary Grubbs (born 1949), (Amory)
Lynn Hamilton (born 1930), (Yazoo City)
Temeceka Harris (born 1975), one-time actress, (Mound Bayou)
Beth Henley (born 1952), dramatist and actress, (Jackson)
Jim Henson (1936–1990), creator of The Muppets, (Leland)
Anthony Herrera (born 1944), (Wiggins)
Wilbur Higby (1867–1934), silent film actor, (Meridian)
Shauntay Hinton, actress (Starkville)
Eddie Hodges (born 1947), former child actor, (Hattiesburg)
Thelma Houston (born 1943), actress, (Leland)
Don Jeffcoat (born 1975), (Gulfport)
James Earl Jones (born 1931), (Arkabutla)
Robert Earl Jones (1910–2006), (Senatobia)
Simbi Khali (born 1971), (Jackson)
Diane Ladd (born 1935), (Meridian)
Daniel Curtis Lee (born 1991), (Clinton)
Tom Lester (born 1938), (Jackson)
Martha Mattox (1879–1933), silent film actor, (Natchez)
Shane McRae (born 1977), (Starkville)
Gerald McRaney (born 1947), (Collins)
Mary Ann Mobley (born 1939), (Brandon)
Parker Posey (born 1968), (Laurel)
Evelyn Preer (1896–1932), (Vicksburg)
Thalmus Rasulala (1939–1991), (Arkabutla)
Beah Richards (1920–2000), stage/screen/tv actress, (Vicksburg)
Eric Roberts (born 1956), (Biloxi)
Toni Seawright (born 1964), international actress, (Pascagoula)
Larry Semon (1889–1928), silent film actor/director/producer, (West Point)
Jamie Lynn Spears (born 1991), actress and singer, (McComb)
Stella Stevens (born 1938), (Yazoo City)
Tonea Stewart (born 1947), (Greenwood)
Ashley Thompson (born 1980), actress, (Booneville)
James Michael Tyler (born 1962), (Winona)
Brenda Venus (born 1957), actress, (Biloxi)
Ray Walston (1914–2001), (Laurel)
Sela Ward (born 1956), (Meridian)
James Wheaton (1924–2002), (Meridian)
Kit Williamson (born 1985), actor, (Jackson)
Oprah Winfrey (born 1954), (Kosciusko)
Hattie Winston (born 1945), (Greenville)
[edit] ArtistsJere Allen, painter, (Oxford)
James McConnell Anderson (1907–1998), potter and painter, (Ocean Springs)
Peter Anderson (1901–1984), potter, (Ocean Springs)
Rick Anderson, painter and children's book illustrator, (Clinton)[5][6]
Walter Inglis Anderson (1903–1965), painter, (Ocean Springs)
Earl W. Bascom (1906–1995), painter, bronze sculptor, "King of the Cowboy Artists," (Columbia)
Bill Beckwith, sculptor (Taylor)[7][8]
Howard Bingham (born 1939), photographer, (Jackson)
Jason Bouldin, portrait painter, (Oxford)[9]
Marshall Bouldin III, portrait painter, (Clarksdale)[10]
Bruce Brady (1934?–2000), nationally acclaimed sculptor, Sculpted Conerly Trophy, (Brookhaven)[11]
Andrew Bucci (born 1922), painter, (Vicksburg)
Jane Rule Burdine, photographer, (Taylor)[12]
William Dunlap, painter, (Webster County)[13][14]
Sam Gilliam (born 1933), color field painter, (Tupelo)
Theora Hamblett (1895–1977), painter, (Oxford)[15]
Ted Jackson (born 1955), photographer, (McComb)
Chris LeDoux (1948–2005), bronze sculptor, (Biloxi)
Ed McGowin, sculptor/painter, (Hattiesburg)[16][17]
Fred Mitchell (born 1923), abstract expressionist painter, (Meridian)
Ethel Wright Mohamed (1906–1992), stitchery artist, (Belzoni)[18][19]
George E. Ohr (1857–1918), potter, (Biloxi)
J. Kim Sessums, bronze sculptor and painter, (Brookhaven)[20]
Floyd Shaman (died 2005), sculptor, (Cleveland)
Jack Spencer (born 1951), photographer, (Kosciusko)
Glennray Tutor (born 1950), painter, (Oxford)
James W. Washington, Jr. (1908–2000), painter and sculptor, (Gloster)
Dick Waterman (born 1935), photographer and blues promoter, (Oxford)
[edit] Athletes and sports-related peopleMain article: List of sports-related people from Mississippi
[edit] Broadcast media personalitiesAlex Bonner (1926–2003), broadcast media executive, (Marks)
Campbell Brown (born 1968), CNN anchor, (Natchez)
Paul Gallo (born 1947), radio host, (Shaw)
Chris McDaniel (born 1971), talk radio host, (Laurel)
Angela McGlowan, Fox News political commentator, (Oxford)
Robin Roberts (born 1960), newscaster, (Pass Christian)
Norman Robinson (born 1951), news anchor, (Toomsuba)
Tavis Smiley (born 1964), talk show host, (Gulfport)
Shepard Smith (born 1964), Fox News anchor, (Holly Springs)
Oprah Winfrey (born 1954), talk show host, (Kosciusko)
[edit] ComediansJerry Clower (1926–1998), (Liberty)
David L. Cook (born 1968), (Pascagoula)
Mack Dryden (born 1949), (Moss Point)
Tig Notaro, stand-up comedy, (Jackson)
[edit] EducatorsJames Madison Carpenter (1888–1983), folklorist, (Prentiss County)
Jesse Dukeminier (1925–2003), professor of law, (West Point)
William R. Ferris (born 1942), folklorist, chairman of National Endowment for the Humanities, (Vicksburg)
George W. Grace (born 1921), linguist, (Corinth)
Robert Khayat (born 1938), chancellor of the University of Mississippi, (Moss Point)
Mamie Locke (born 1954), political scientist, dean at Hampton University, (Brandon)
John A. Lomax (1867–1948), folklorist, (Goodman)
Frances Lucas (born 1957), president of Millsaps College, (Jackson)
Walter E. Massey (born 1938), physicist, University of Chicago, (Hattiesburg)
William H. Miller (born 1941), theoretical chemist, (Kosciusko)
William Muse, chancellor at East Carolina University
Rod Paige (born 1933), U.S. secretary of education, (Monticello)
Dan Reneau (born 1940), president of Louisiana Tech University (Woodville)
Roy Vernon Scott (born 1927), historian, (Starkville)
Jimmy G. Shoalmire (1940–1982), historian (Starkville)
Louis Westerfield (born 1949), law professor, first African-American Dean of the University of Mississippi School of Law, (De Kalb)
Fannie C. Williams (1882–1980), normal school educator (Biloxi)
[edit] Entrepreneurs/Business leadersJim Barksdale (born 1943), president and CEO of Netscape, (Jackson)
James Breckenridge Speed (1844–1912), industrial pioneer
Fred Carl, Jr., founder of Viking Range Corporation, (Greenwood)
Cully Cobb (1884–1975), agricultural publisher
Bernard "Bernie" Ebbers (born 1941), founder and CEO of WorldCom, convicted of fraud and conspiracy, (Brookhaven)
Joshua Green (1869–1975), shipping magnate, banker, (Jackson)
Sam Haskell (born 1955), former worldwide head of television for the William Morris Agency, (Amory)[21]
Robert L. Johnson (born 1946), founder of Black Entertainment Television, (Hickory)
Ken Lewis (born 1947), Chairman, CEO, and President of Bank of America Corporation, (Meridian)
Walter E. Massey (born 1938), corporate executive and board member of several oganizations, (Hattiesburg)
Glenn McCullough (born 1954), chairman and CEO of GLM Associates, LLC, (Tupelo)
Charles Moorman (born 1953), CEO of Norfolk Southern, (Hattiesburg)
Clarence Otis, Jr. (born 1956), CEO of Darden Restaurants, (Vicksburg)
Hartley Peavey (born 1941), founder of Peavey Electronics, (Starkville)
Pig Foot Mary (1870–1929), culinary entrepreneur, (Mississippi Delta)
Robert "Bob" Pittman, founder MTV, former CEO and COO AOL, (Jackson)
J. H. Rush (1868–1931), founder of Rush's Infirmary, the first private hospital in Meridian, Mississippi, (De Kalb)
Fred Smith (born 1944), founder of FedEx, (Marks)
Antonio Maceo Walker (1909–1994), president of the Universal Life Insurance Company of Memphis, Tennessee, (Indianola)
[edit] FilmmakersCharles Burnett (born 1944), (Vicksburg)
Jamaa Fanaka (born 1942), (Jackson)
John Fortenberry, film and television director, (Jackson)
Lawrence Gordon (born 1936), producer of Die Hard and other films, (Yazoo City)
Jonathan Murray (born 1955), creator of the reality TV genre, (Gulfport)
Patrik-Ian Polk (born 1973), (Hattiesburg)
Larry A. Thompson (born 1944), television and film producer, (Clarksdale)
[edit] InventorsEarl W. Bascom (1906–1995), inventor of rodeo equipment, (Columbia)
Harry A. Cole, inventor of Pine-Sol, (Jackson)
Joseph Newman, inventor of the Newman motor, (Lucedale)
Henry Sampson (born 1934), inventor, (Jackson)
[edit] Jurists and lawyersRhesa H. Barksdale (born 1944), federal judge (Jackson)
Neal Brooks Biggers Jr. (born 1935), federal judge (Corinth)
William Joel Blass (born 1917), attorney, (Wiggins/Gulfport)
Gerald Chatham (1906–1956), lawyer, lead prosecutor in the Emmett Till case, (Hernando)
Bobby DeLaughter (born 1954), prosecutor, judge (Jackson)
Jess H. Dickinson (born 1947), associate justice, Supreme Court of Mississippi, (Charleston)
Boyce Holleman (1924–2003), attorney, (Wiggins/Gulfport)
Frank Hunger (born 1936), assistant U.S. attorney general, (Greenville)[22]
E. Grady Jolly (born 1937), judge of the U.S. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, (Louisville)
Charles W. Pickering (born 1937), federal judge, (Jones County)
Thomas Rodney (1744–1811), federal judge, (Natchez)
Richard "Dickie" Scruggs (born 1946), attorney, (Pascagoula)
Michael B. Thornton (born 1954), judge, U.S. Tax Court
Michael Wallace (born 1951), lawyer, (Biloxi)
James R. Williams (born 1936), lawyer and jurist, (Columbus)
[edit] Military figuresWilliam Wirt Adams (1819–1888), brigadier general, CSA, (Jackson)
Van T. Barfoot (born 1919), World War II colonel and Medal of Honor recipient, (Edinburg)
William Barksdale (1821–1863), brigadier general, CSA, died at Gettysburg, (Jackson)
William Billingsley (1887–1913), ensign, first Navy aviator killed in an airplane crash, (Winona)
Alvin C. Cockrell (1918–1942), second lieutenant, USMC, killed in World War II, (Hazelhurst)
Nathan Bedford Forrest (1821–1877), general, CSA, (Hernando)
Walter "Smokey" Gordon (1920–1997), World War II veteran, portrayed in the HBO mini-series Band Of Brothers[citation needed]
Jeffery Hammond (born 1978), major general, (Hattiesburg)
Randolph M. Holder (1918–1942), USN lieutenant (junior grade), (Jackson)
Felix Huston (1800–1857), general, Texas army, (Natchez)
Samuel Reeves Keesler (1896–1918), airman, WWI, (Greenwood)
Newton Knight (1837–1922), Unionist guerrilla leader, (Jones County)
Roy Joseph Marchand (1920–1942), World War II fireman first class, (Crandall)
Henry Pinckney McCain (1861–1941), adjutant general, US Army, (Carroll County)
John S. McCain, Sr. (1884–1945), USN admiral, (Teoc)
Donald H. Peterson (born 1933), USAF colonel and NASA astronaut, (Winona)
Charles Read (1840–1890), naval officer, (Meridian)
Viola B. Sanders (born 1921), USN captain, director of women, U.S. Navy, (Sidon)
Daniel Isom Sultan (1885–1947), inspector general, U.S. Army, (Oxford)
James Monroe Trotter (1842–1892), first man of color to achieve rank of 2nd Lieutenant, U.S. Army, music historian, (Gulfport)
Richard H. Truly (born 1937), retired United States Navy, former astronaut, and NASA administrator, (Fayette)
[edit] ModelsJennifer Adcock (born 1980), Miss Mississippi 2002 and Miss Mississippi USA 2005, (Hattiesburg)
Kristi Addis (born 1971), Miss Teen USA 1987, (Holcomb)
Susan Akin (born 1965), Miss Mississippi 1985 and Miss America 1986, (Meridian)
Jenna Edwards (born 1981), former Miss Florida and Miss Florida USA, (Brandon)
Ruth Ford (born 1915), model, (Hazlehurst)
Taryn Foshee, Miss Mississippi 2006, (Clinton)
June Juanico (born 1938), beauty queen known for dating Elvis Presley in 1955 and 1956, (Biloxi)
Nan Kelley, Miss Mississippi 1985 and GAC's Top 20 Country Countdown hostess, (Hattiesburg)
Kendra King, Miss Mississippi USA 2006, (Monticello)
Christine Kozlowski, Miss Mississippi 2008, (D'Iberville)
Leah Laviano (born 1988), Miss Mississippi USA 2008, and 1st runner up in Miss USA 2008, (Ellisville)
Monica Louwerens (born 1973), Miss Mississippi 1995, (Greenville)
Lypsinka (born 1955), drag performer and model, (Hazlehurst)
Lynda Lee Mead (born c.1939), Miss America 1960, (Natchez)
Mary Ann Mobley (born 1939), Miss America 1959, (Brandon)
Kimberly Morgan (born 1983), Miss Mississippi 2007, (Taylor)
Cheryl Prewitt (born 1957), Miss America 1980, (Ackerman)
Toni Seawright (born 1964), Miss Mississippi 1987 (first African-American winner), (Pascagoula)
Naomi Sims (1948–2009), fashion model and author (Oxford)
Ellen Stratton (born 1939), model and Playboy Playmate, (Marietta)
Amy Wesson (born 1977), fashion model, (Tupelo)
Cindy Williams (born 1964), journalist and Miss Mississippi USA 1986
Jalin Wood (born 1981), Miss Mississippi 2004 and Miss Mississippi USA 2007, (Waynesboro)
[edit] Musicians and performers3 Doors Down, band, (Escatawpa)
John Luther Adams (born 1953), composer of music inspired by nature, (Meridian)
Afroman (born 1974), comedy rapper, (Hattiesburg)
Tommy Aldridge (born 1950), drummer for Ozzy Osbourne and Whitesnake, (Pearl)
Mose Allison (born 1927), jazz musician, (Tallahatchie County)
Robert Anderson (1919–1995), gospel singer-composer and pianist, (Anguilla)
Steve Azar (born 1964), country singer, (Greenville)
Milton Babbitt (1916-2011), composer, electronic music pioneer, (Jackson)
Glen Ballard (born 1953), songwriter and record producer, (Natchez)
David Banner (born 1973), rapper/producer, (Jackson)
Matt Barlow (born 1970), lead singer of the metal band Iced Earth, (Biloxi)
Prentiss Barnes (1925–2006), rhythm and blues singer, (Magnolia)
Lance Bass (born 1979), member of pop group 'N Sync, (Laurel)
Jeff Bates (born 1963), country music singer-songwriter, (Bunker Hill)
Beanland, jam band, (Oxford)
Robert Belfour (born 1940), blues musician, (Holly Springs)
Carey Bell (1936–2007), Chicago blues harmonica player, (Macon)
Big Time Sarah (born 1953), blues singer, (Coldwater)
The Blackwood Brothers, gospel singers, (Choctaw County)
James Blackwood (1919–2002), one of The Blackwood Brothers, (Choctaw County)
Blind Melon, Alternative rock and jam band, (Starkville)
Blind Mississippi Morris (born 1955), blues artist, (Clarksdale)
Blue Mountain, alternative country band, (Oxford)
Lucille Bogan (1897–1948), blues singer, (Amory)
Charley Booker (1925–1989), blues singer and guitarist, (Moorhead)
Eddie Boyd (1914–1994), blues musician, (Clarksdale)
Bobby Bradford (born 1934), jazz musician and composer, (Cleveland)
Jan Bradley (born 1943), soul singer, (Byhalia)
Cory Branan (born 1975), singer-songwriter, (Southhaven)
Jackie Brenston (1930–1979), American R&B singer and saxophonist, (Clarksdale)
Big Bill Broonzy (1898–1958), blues singer-songwriter and guitarist, (Scott County)
Eddie "Bongo" Brown (1932–1984), percussionist, (Clarksdale)
Jimmy Buffett (born 1946), multi-genre singer-songwriter, (Pascagoula)
R. L. Burnside (1926–2005), blues singer-songwriter, (Harmontown)
Jerry Butler (born 1939), soul singer-songwriter, (Sunflower)
Cadillac Don & J-Money, rap duo, (Crawford)
G. C. Cameron (born 1945), soul and R&B singer, (Jackson)
Ace Cannon (born 1934), tenor and alto saxophonist, (Grenada)
Gus Cannon (1883–1979), jug band musician, (Red Banks)
Bo Carter (1893–1964), blues singer, (Bolton)
Johnny Carver (born 1940), country singer, (Jackson)
The Chambers Brothers, soul music group, (Lee County)
Sam Chatmon (1897–1983), blues singer, brother of Bo Carter, (Bolton)
Otis Clay (born 1942), R&B and soul musician, (Waxhaw)
Chalmers Clifton (1889–1966), conductor and composer, (Jackson)
Odia Coates (1942–1991), singer, (Vicksburg)
Hank Cochran (born 1935), country music singer-songwriter, (Isola)
Bill Coday (1942–2008), singer, (Coldwater)
Phil Cohran (born 1927), jazz musician, (Oxford)
Colour Revolt, indie rock band, (Oxford)
Mike Compton (born 1956), bluegrass mandolin player, (Meridian)
David L. Cook (born 1968), Christian country music singer-songwriter, (Pascagoula)
Sam Cooke (1931–1964), (Clarksdale)
The Cook Family Singers, Christian country music group, (Pascagoula)
The Cooters, punk metal band, (Oxford)
James Cotton (born 1935), blues harmonica player and singer-songwriter, (Tunica)
Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup (1905–1974), Delta blues singer and guitarist, (Forest)
George Cummings (born 1938), guitarist and songwriter, (Meridian)
Olu Dara (born 1941), jazz musician, (Natchez)
Lester Davenport (1932–2009), American blues harmonica player and singer, (Tchula)
Paul Davis (1948–2008), singer-songwriter, (Meridian)
Jimmy Dawkins (born 1936), blues guitarist and singer, (Tchula)
Al Denson (born 1960), contemporary Christian artist, (Starkville)
Bo Diddley (1928–2008), rock & roll/R&B singer-songwriter, (McComb)
Willie Dixon (1915–1992), blues bassist/singer-ongwriter/record producer, (Vicksburg)
Nate Dogg (born 1969), West Coast Hip Hop and R&B artist, (Clarksdale)
Marshall Drew (born 1984), folk rock singer-songwriter, (Clarksdale)
Kevin Dukes (born 1956), guitarist, (Brookhaven)
Omar Kent Dykes (born 1950), blues guitarist and singer, (McComb)
Judy Dunaway (born 1964), avant-garde composer/free improvisor/conceptual sound artist
Meredith Edwards (born 1984), country singer, (Clinton)
Lehman Engel (1910–1982), composer and conductor, (Jackson)
Shelly Fairchild (born 1977), country music artist, (Clinton)
Charlie Feathers (1932–1998), (Holly Springs)
Five Blind Boys of Mississippi, gospel singers, (Piney Woods)
Steve Forbert (born 1955), pop music singer-songwriter, (Meridian)
Barbara Siggers Franklin (1917–1952), gospel singer and mother of Aretha Franklin, (Shelby)
Lee Garrett, R&B singer-songwriter
Eric "Red Mouth" Gebhardt, multi-genre singer-songwriter, (Biloxi)
Bobbie Gentry (born 1944), singer-songwriter, (Greenwood)
Mickey Gilley (born 1936), country singer and musician, (Natchez)
Mark Gray (born 1952), country music singer and keyboardist, (Vicksburg)
Garland Green (born 1942), soul singer and pianist, (Dunleith)
Lloyd Green (born 1937), country music steel guitarist, (Leaf)
Ted Hawkins (born 1936), singer and songwriter, (Biloxi)
Kenneth Haxton (1919–2002), composer, (Greenville)[23]
Jessie Mae Hemphill (1923–2006), blues musician, (Como)
Caroline Herring, bluegrass musician, (Canton)
Michael Henderson (born 1951), bass guitarist, R&B singer (Yazoo City)
Faith Hill (born 1967), country/pop singer, (Jackson)
Kim Hill (born 1963), Christian singer-songwriter, (Starkville)
Ernie Hines (born 1938), soul musician
Milt Hinton (1910–2000), jazz double bassist, (Vicksburg)
John Lee Hooker (1917–2001), singer-songwriter and blues guitarist, (Clarksdale)
Big Walter Horton (1917–1981), blues harmonica player, (Horn Lake)
Son House (1902–1988), blues singer and guitarist, (Riverton)
Randy Houser (born 1975), country music artist, (Lake)
Thelma Houston (born 1943), R&B singer-songwriter, (Leland)
Guy Hovis (born 1941), big band singer, (Tupelo)
Howlin' Wolf (1910–1976), blues singer/guitarist/harmonica player, (West Point)
Cary Hudson, lead singer and guitarist for alternative country band Blue Mountain, (Sumrall)
Mississippi John Hurt (c.1893–1966), country blues singer and guitarist, (Teoc)
Clifton Hyde (born 1976), multi-instrumentalist and producer, (Hattiesburg)
Carl Jackson (born 1953), country and bluegrass musician, (Louisville)
Elmore James (1918–1963), blues guitarist and singer-songwriter, (Richland)
Skip James (1902–1969), Delta blues guitarist/pianist/singer-songwriter, (Bentonia)
Roosevelt Jamison (born 1936), songwriter/publicist, (Olive Branch)
Jai Johanny "Jaimoe" Johanson (born 1944), drummer in The Allman Brothers Band, (Ocean Springs)
Big Jack Johnson (born 1940), blues musician, (Clarksdale)
Jimmy Johnson (born 1928), blues guitarist and singer, (Holly Springs)
Robert Johnson (1911–1938), blues and Delta blues musician, (Hazlehurst)
Syl Johnson (born 1936), blues and soul singer, (Holly Springs)
Margie Joseph (born 1950), R&B and soul singer, (Pascagoula)
Junior Kimbrough (1930–1998), blues artist, (Hudsonville)
Albert King (1923–1992), blues guitarist and singer, (Indianola)
B. B. King (born 1925), blues guitarist and singer-songwriter, (Itta Bena)
Fern Kinney, rhythm & blues and disco music entertainer, (Jackson)
Fred Knoblock (born 1953), country singer-songwriter, (Jackson)
Kudzu Kings, band, (Oxford)
Sonny Landreth (born 1951), blues musician and slide guitar player, (Canton)
Denise LaSalle (born 1939), urban contemporary and contemporary R&B singer-songwriter/record producer, (Belzoni)
Rick Lawson (born 1973), soul and R&B singer, (Raymond)
Chris LeDoux (1948–2005), country music singer-songwriter, (Biloxi)
Mylon LeFevre (born 1944), gospel and Christian rock singer, (Gulfport)
J. B. Lenoir (1929–1967), guitarist and singer-songwriter, (Monticello)
Robert "Squirrel" Lester (born 1942), second tenor of The Chi-Lites, (McComb)
Bobby Lounge (born 1950), singer-songwriter, (McComb)
Tommy McClennan (1908–c.1962), Delta blues singer and guitarist, (Yazoo City)
George McConnell, guitarist, (Vicksburg)
Kansas Joe McCoy (1905–1950), blues musician and songwriter, (Raymond)
Papa Charlie McCoy (1909–1950), Delta blues musician and songwriter, (Jackson)
Fred McDowell (1904–1972), blues singer and guitarist, (Como)
Mulgrew Miller (born 1955), jazz pianist, (Greenwood)
Little Milton (1934–2005), blues and soul vocalist and guitarist, (Inverness)
Hoyt Ming, old-time fiddler, (Choctaw County)[24]
Mississippi Mass Choir, gospel choir, (Jackson)
Mississippi Slim (born 1923), country singer and guitarist, (Smithville)
Monkey Joe, blues musician, (Jackson)
Dorothy Moore (born 1947), pop/R&B/gospel singer, (Jackson)
Johnny B. Moore (born 1950), blues singer and guitarist, (Clarksdale)
Charlie Musselwhite (born 1944), blues-harp player and bandleader, (Kosciusko)
Bill Myrick (born 1926), country singer/musician/writer/producer/disc jockey, (Simpson County)
North Mississippi Allstars, blues-rock/jam band, (Hernando)
Brandy Norwood (born 1979), R&B singer-songwriter/record producer, (McComb)
Willie Norwood (born 1955), gospel singer, (McComb)
Alexander O'Neal (born 1953), soul singer, (Natchez)
Paul Overstreet (born 1955), country music singer-songwriter, (Newton)
Ginny Owens, blind contemporary Christian music singer-songwriter, (Jackson)
Junior Parker (1932–1971), Memphis blues singer and musician, (Clarksdale)
Michael Passons (born 1965), founding member of the Christian band Avalon, (Yazoo City)
Charley Patton (1891–1934), Delta-/Country-/Gospel blues musician, (Edwards)
Dion Payton (born 1950), blues guitarist and singer, (Greenwood)
Elvis Presley (1935–1977), multi-genre musician, (Tupelo)
Leontyne Price (born 1927), opera singer, (Laurel)
Charley Pride (born 1938), country music singer, (Sledge)
John Primer (born 1945), blues singer and guitarist, (Camden)
Stephen Purdy (born 1970), conductor/pianist and vocal coach for broadway musicals and broadway actors, (Hattiesburg)
Ray J (born 1981), contemporary R&B and hip hop singer/record producer, (McComb)
Jimmy Reed (1925–1976), blues singer and musician, (Dunleith)
Del Rendon (1965–2005), country musician, (Starkville)
Mack Rice (born 1933), songwriter, (Clarksdale)
LeAnn Rimes (born 1982), country and pop singer, (Pearl)
Fenton Robinson (born 1935), blues musician, (Greenwood)
Jimmie Rodgers (1897–1933), country singer, (Meridian)
Jimmy Rogers (1924–1997), blues signer and guitarist, (Ruleville)
David Ruffin (1941–1991), former lead singer of The Temptations, (Whynot)
Jimmy Ruffin (born 1939), soul and R&B singer, (Collinsville)
Bobby Rush (born 1940), blues and R&B musician/composer/singer, (Jackson)
Otis Rush (born 1935), blues musician, (Philadelphia)
Oliver Sain (1932–2003), saxophonist/drummer/songwriter/record producer, (Dundee)
Magic Sam (1937–1969), Chicago blues and soul blues musician, (Grenada)
Scott Savage, drummer for Christian rock band Jars of Clay, (Clinton)
Saving Abel, rock band, (Corinth)
Johnny Sea (born 1940), country singer, (Gulfport)
Toni Seawright (born 1964), singer-songwriter, (Pascagoula)
Jumpin' Gene Simmons (1933–2006), rockabilly singer, (Tupelo)
Byther Smith (born 1933), blues musician, (Monticello)
Soulja Boy (born 1990), rapper/record producer, (Batesville)
Otis Spann (1930–1970), blues musician, (Jackson)
Britney Spears (born 1981), pop singer, (McComb)
Judson Spence (born 1965), songwriter and multi-instrumentalist, (Pascagoula)
Roebuck "Pop" Staples (1914–2000), founder of The Staple Singers, (Winona)
Rogers Stevens (born 1970), guitarist for the band Blind Melon, (West Point)
Lisa Stewart (born 1968), country musician, (Louisville)
William Grant Still (1895–1978), classical composer, (Woodville)
Barrett Strong (born 1941), singer and songwriter, (West Point)
Marty Stuart (born 1958), country music singer, (Philadelphia)
Hubert Sumlin (born 1931), blues musician, (Greenwood)
Deanna Summers, songwriter
Ty Tabor (born 1961), guitarist/songwriter/vocalist for rock band King's X, (Pearl)
Eddie Taylor (1923–1985), blues guitarist and singer, (Benoit)
Hound Dog Taylor (1915–1975), blues guitarist and singer, (Natchez)
Melvin Taylor (born 1959), blues musician, (Jackson)
Ernie Terrell (born 1939), singer and record producer, (Belzoni)
Jean Terrell (born 1944), R&B and jazz singer, (Belzoni)
James "Son" Thomas (1926–1993), blues musician, (Leland)
Rufus Thomas (1917–2001), R&B/funk/soul singer, (Cayce)
Ashley Thompson (born 1980), singer, (Booneville)
Ike Turner (1931–2007), multi-genre musician/record producer, (Clarksdale)
Conway Twitty (1933–1993), country singer-songwriter, (Friars Point)
Freddie Waits (1943–1989), hard bop and post-bop drummer, (Jackson)
Travis Wammack (born 1944), rock and roll guitarist, (Walnut)
Walter Ward (born 1940), R&B singer and lead vocalist of The Olympics, (Jackson)
Muddy Waters (1913–1983), Electric blues and Chicago blues musician, (Rolling Fork)
Jim Weatherly (born 1943), country and pop singer-songwriter, (Pontotoc)
Carl Weathersby (born 1953), blues vocalist/guitarist/songwriter, (Jackson)
Boogie Bill Webb (1924–1990), blues guitarist and singer, (Jackson)
Bukka White (1909–1977), Delta blues guitarist and singer, (Houston)
Carson Whitsett (1945–2007), keyboardist and songwriter, (Jackson)
Tim Whitsett (born 1943), band leader/songwriter/producer, (Jackson)
Webb Wilder (born 1954), country/surf music/rock & roll musician, (Hattiesburg)
Big Joe Williams (1903–1982), Delta blues musician and songwriter, (Crawford)
Hayley Williams (born 1988), pop punk and alternative rock singer-songwriter, (Meridian)
Sonny Boy Williamson II (died 1965), blues harmonica player and singer-songwriter, (Glendora)
Eddie Willis (born 1936), electric guitarist, (Grenada)
Al Wilson (1939–2008), singer and drummer, (Meridian)
Cassandra Wilson (born 1955), jazz singer-songwriter, (Jackson)
Mary Wilson (born 1944), singer and founding member of The Supremes, (Greenville)
Elder Roma Wilson (born 1910), harmonica player, (Blue Springs)[25]
Tammy Wynette (1942–1998), country music singer-songwriter, (Tremont)
Lester Young (1909–1959), jazz tenor saxophonist and clarinetist, (Woodville)
Zora Young (born 1948), blues singer, (West Point)
[edit] PhysiciansBlair E. Batson, chairman of pediatrics at the University of Mississippi Medical Center and namesake of the Blair E. Batson Hospital for Children, (Jackson)
Henry Cloud (born 1956), clinical psychologist, (Vicksburg)
Arthur Guyton (1919–2003), wrote the Textbook of Medical Physiology, (Oxford)
John Hall, continues to work on Textbook of Medical Physiology[26]
James Hardy (1918–2003), surgeon who performed the first successful cadaveric lung transplant, (Jackson)[27]
T. R. M. Howard (1908–1976), surgeon and activist, (Mound Bayou)
Edgar Hull (1904-1984), co-founding physician of the Medical Center of Louisiana at New Orleans (1931) and Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center Shreveport (1969); born and died in (Pascagoula)
Thomas Naum James (born 1925), cardiologist, (Amory)
[edit] PoliticiansSee also: List of Governors of Mississippi, List of United States Senators from Mississippi, List of United States Representatives from Mississippi, List of mayors of Jackson, Mississippi, and List of mayors of Meridian, Mississippi
Thomas Abernethy (1903–1998), U.S. representative, (Eupora)
Robert H. Adams (1792–1830), U.S. senator, (Natchez)
James L. Alcorn (1816–1894), governor and U.S. senator, (Friars Point)
William Allain (born 1928), governor, (Washington)
John Mills Allen (1846–1917), U.S. representative, (Tishomingo County)
Apuckshunubbee (c.1740–1824), Choctaw chief
Haley Barbour (born 1947), governor, (Yazoo City)
Ethelbert Barksdale (1824–1893), U.S. representative and member of the Confederate States Congress, (Jackson)
William Barksdale (1821–1863), U.S. congressman, (Jackson)
Ross Barnett (1898–1987), governor, (Standing Pine)
Cheri Barry (born c.1955), mayor, (Meridian)
Marion Barry (born 1936), Washington, D.C. mayor, (Itta Bena)
Theodore G. Bilbo (1877–1947), governor and U.S. senator, (Poplarville)
Marsha Blackburn (born 1952), U.S. representative from Tennessee, (Laurel)
Hale Boggs (1914–1972), U.S. representative from Louisiana, House majority leader, (Long Beach)
David R. Bowen (born 1932), U.S. representative, (Houston)
Walker Brooke (1813–1869), U.S. senator, (Vicksburg)
Blanche Bruce (1841–1898), U.S. senator
Ezekiel S. Candler, Jr. (1862–1944), U.S. representative, (Corinth)
Joseph W. Chalmers (1806–1853), U.S. senator, (Holly Springs)
Travis W. Childers (born 1958), U.S. representative, (Booneville)
John Claiborne (1809–1884), U.S. representative, (Natchez)
Robert G. Clark, Jr. (born 1928), first African American state representative since Reconstruction
Thad Cochran (born 1937), U.S. senator, (Pontotoc)
James P. Coleman (1914–1991), governor, (Ackerman)
Jacqueline Y. Collins (born 1949), Illinois state senator, (McComb)
Ross A. Collins (1880–1968), U.S. representative, (Collinsville)
William M. Colmer (1890–1980), U.S. representative, (Moss Point)
Greg Davis (born 1966), mayor, (Southaven)
Jefferson Davis (1808–1889), U.S. senator and president of the Confederate States of America, (Warren County)
Wayne Dowdy (born 1943), chairman of the Mississippi Democratic Party, (Magnolia)
Brad Dye (born 1933), lieutenant governor, (Charleston)
James Eastland (1904–1986), U.S. senator, (Sunflower)
Mike Espy (born 1953), U.S. secretary of agriculture, (Yazoo City)
Robert C. Farrell (born 1936), Los Angeles city councilman, (Natchez)
Erik R. Fleming (born 1965), state representative, (Clinton)
Kirk Fordice (1934–2004), governor, (Vicksburg)
Webb Franklin (born 1941), U.S. representative, (Greenwood)
Evelyn Gandy (1920–2007), lieutenant governor, (Hattiesburg)
James Z. George (1826–1897), U.S. senator, (Carrollton)
Charles H. Griffin (1926–1989), U.S. representative, (Utica)
Gregg Harper (born 1956), U.S. representative, (Jackson)
Pat Harrison (1881–1941), U.S. representative, (Crystal Springs)
Patrick Henry (1843–1930), U.S. representative, (Brandon)
Thomas C. Hindman (1828–1868), U.S. representative from Arkansas, (Ripley)
Jon Hinson (1942–1995), U.S. representative, (Tylertown)
David Holmes (1769–1832), first Governor of Mississippi
Jim Hood, Attorney General of Mississippi, (New Houlka)
Delbert Hosemann (born 1947), Mississippi secretary of state, (Vicksburg)
Benjamin G. Humphreys (1808–1882), governor, (Claiborne County)
Benjamin G. Humphreys II (1865–1923), U.S. representative, (Claiborne County)
William Y. Humphreys (1890–1933), U.S. representative, (Greenville)
Paul B. Johnson, Sr. (1880–1943), judge/governor, (Hattiesburg)
Paul B. Johnson, Jr. (1916–1985), governor, (Hattiesburg)
Pete Johnson (born 1948), state auditor, co-chair of Delta Regional Authority, (Clarksdale)
Daryl Jones (born 1955), (Jackson)
Penne Percy Korth (born 1942), diplomat, (Hattiesburg)
L.Q.C. Lamar (1825–1893), U.S. senator and supreme court justice, (Oxford)
Greenwood LeFlore (1800–1865), Choctaw chief, state senator
Clinton LeSueur (born 1969), (Holly Springs)
Elmer Litchfield (1927–2008), sheriff of East Baton Rouge Parish in Louisiana, (Meridian)
Mamie Locke (born 1954), Virginia state senator, (Brandon)
Trent Lott (born 1941), U.S. senator, (Grenada)
John R. Lynch (1847–1939), first African-American speaker of the Mississippi House, U.S. representative, (Natchez)
Ray Mabus (born 1948), governor and Secretary of the Navy, (Starkville)
Harlan Majure (born 1929), mayor of Philadelphia, Mississippi, (Meridian)
Glenn McCullough (born 1954), mayor of Tupelo, (Tupelo)
Chris McDaniel (born 1971), state senator, (Laurel)
Hernando Money (1839–1912), U.S. senator, (Carrollton)
"Sonny" Montgomery (1920–2006), U.S. representative, (Meridian)
Mike Moore (born 1952), Mississippi attorney general, (Pascagoula)
Ronnie Musgrove (born 1956), governor, (Tocowa)
Spencer Myrick (1918–1991), Louisiana legislator, (Simpson County)
Alan Nunnelee (born 1958), state senator, (Tupelo)
Rod Paige (born 1933), Secretary of Education (Monticello)
Chip Pickering (born 1963), U.S. representative, (Laurel)
John E. Rankin (1882–1960), U.S. representative, (Itawamba County)
Red Shoes (died 1747), assassinated Choctaw leader
Bill Renick (born 1954), mayor, governor's chief of staff (Ashland)
Hiram Rhodes Revels (1827–1901), first African-American U.S. senator, (Claiborne County)
Carol Schwartz (born 1944), District of Columbia politician, (Greenville)
Abram M. Scott (1785–1833), governor, (Wilkinson County)
Ronnie Shows (born 1947), U.S. representative, (Moselle)
Jim Singleton (born 1931), New Orleans councilman (Hazlehurst)
Larkin I. Smith (1944–1989), U.S. representative, (Poplarville)
Larry Speakes (born 1939), presidential spokesman, (Cleveland)
John C. Stennis (1901–1995), U.S. senator, (De Kalb)
Bill Stone (born 1965), state senator, (Ashland)
William V. Sullivan (1857–1918), U.S. representative and senator, (Winona)
Gene Taylor (born 1953), U.S. representative, (Bay St. Louis)
Bennie Thompson (born 1948), U.S. representative, (Bolton)
Jacob Thompson (1810–1885), U.S. representative, secretary of the interior, (Oxford)
Amy Tuck (born 1963), lieutenant governor, (Maben)
James K. Vardaman (1861–1930), governor, U.S. Senator, (Yalobusha County)
Jamie L. Whitten (1910–1995), U.S. representative, (Cascilla)
Roger Wicker (born 1951), U.S. senator, (Pontotoc)
Thomas Hickman Williams (1801–1851), U.S. senator, (Pontotoc County)
William Arthur Winstead (1904–1995), U.S. representative, (Philadelphia)
William Winter (born 1923), governor, (Grenada)
Fielding L. Wright (1895–1956), governor, (Rolling Fork)
[edit] SupercentenariansSusie Gibson (1890–2006), lived 115 years & 108 days, (Corinth)
Moses Hardy (1893/1894–2006), lived 112 to 113 years, (Aberdeen)
Bettie Wilson (1890–2006), lived 115 years & 153 days
[edit] WritersAce Atkins (born 1970), (Oxford)
Howard Bahr (born 1946), (Jackson)
Frederick Barthelme (born 1943), novelist and professor, (Hattiesburg)
Earl W. Bascom (1906–1995), (Columbia)
Lerone Bennett, Jr. (born 1928), editor of Ebony magazine, (Clarksdale)
Douglas A. Blackmon (born 1964), journalist and historian, (Leland)
Maxwell Bodenheim (1892–1954), poet and novelist, (Hermanville)
Bruce Brady (1934?–2000), writer, editor of Outdoor Life, (Brookhaven)[28]
Charlie Braxton, poet and author, (McComb)[29]
Larry Brown (1951–2004), (Oxford)
Jill Conner Browne,[citation needed] author Sweet Potato Queens, (Tupelo)
Jack Butler (born 1944), (Alligator)
Mary Cain (1904–1984), journalist, (Pike County)
Hodding Carter II (1907–1972), journalist, (Greenville)
Hodding Carter III (born 1935), journalist, (Greenville)
Craig Claiborne (1920–2000), food writer, (Sunflower)
Mart Crowley (born 1935), playwright, (Vicksburg)
Borden Deal (1922–1985), novelist and short story writer, (Pontotoc)
Ben Domenech (born 1981), conservative writer and blogger, (Jackson)
David Herbert Donald (1920–2009), historian, (Goodman)
Ellen Douglas (Josephine Haxton) (born 1921), novelist, (Greenville)[30]
John T. Edge, food writer, (Oxford)
John Faulkner (1901–1963), plain-style writer, (Ripley)
William Faulkner (1897–1962), Nobel laureate, (New Albany)
Bill Fitzhugh (born 1957), (Jackson)[31][32]
Vic Fleming (born 1951), (Jackson)
Shelby Foote (1916–2005), historian and novelist, (Greenville)
Charles Henri Ford (1913–2002), poet, novelist, editor (Brookhaven)
Richard Ford (born 1944), Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist and short story writer, (Jackson)
Lynn Franklin (born 1922), author, police detective
Ellen Gilchrist (born 1935), novelist/poet/short story writer, (Vicksburg)
John Grisham (born 1955), legal thrillers novelist, (Southaven)
Barry Hannah (born 1942), novelist and short story writer, (Clinton)
Charlaine Harris (born 1951), mystery author, (Tunica)
Thomas Harris (born 1940), author who created the character Hannibal Lecter, (Rich)
Beth Henley (born 1952), playwright and screenwriter, (Jackson)
M. Carl Holman (1919–1988), author/poet/playwright, (Minter City)
Greg Iles (born 1960), novelist, (Natchez)
Greg Keyes (born 1963), science fiction and fantasy writer, (Meridian)
Muna Lee (1895–1965), author and poet, (Raymond)
Sam Chu Lin (1939–2006), journalist, (Greenville)
C. Liegh McInnis (born 1969), poet/short story writer/editor of Black Magnolias (Clarksdale)
Anne Moody (born 1940), author, activist, (Centreville)
Willie Morris (1934–1999), author, editor (Jackson)
Jess Mowry (born 1960), writer of books and stories for children and young adults, (Starkville)
Ellis Nassour[citation needed] (born 1941), author of non-fiction books, journalist, playwright, formerly with New York Times, (Vicksburg)
Thomas Naylor (born 1936), author and economist, (Jackson)
Lewis Nordan (born 1939), (Forest)
Steven Ozment (born 1939), historian, (McComb)
Walker Percy (1916–1990), (Greenville)
William Alexander Percy (1885–1942), (Greenville)
William Raspberry (born 1935), public affairs columnist, (Okolona)
Kevin Sessums (born 1956), magazine editor, (Forest)
Patrick D. Smith (born 1927), Pulitzer Prize and Nobel Prize nominee, (Mendenhall)
Lynne Spears (born 1955), author and mother of Britney Spears and Jamie Lynn Spears, (McComb)
Elizabeth Spencer (born 1921), novelist, (Carrollton)
Kathryn Stockett, novelist, (Jackson)
William N. Still, Jr. (born 1932), maritime historian, (Columbus)
Donna Tartt (born 1963), novelist, (Greenwood)
Clifton Taulbert (born 1945), author and speaker, (Glen Allan)
Mildred Taylor (born 1943), author, (Jackson)
Wright Thompson (born 1977), journalist, ESPN.com
Natasha Trethewey (born 1966), 2007 Pulitzer Prize poet, (Gulfport)
Jamie Langston Turner (born 1949), Christian novelist
Brenda Venus (born 1947), author, (Biloxi)
Howard Waldrop (born 1946), science fiction author, (Houston)
Peggy Webb (born 1942), romance novel author, (Mooreville)
Eudora Welty (1909–2001), novelist, short story writer (Jackson)
Neil White III (born 1960), playwright, publisher, (Gulfport)[33]
Tennessee Williams (1911–1983), (Columbus)
Richard Nathaniel Wright (1908–1960), (Roxie)
Al Young (born 1939), poet/novelist/essayist/screenwriter, (Ocean Springs)
Stark Young (1881–1963), playwright/novelist/literary critic/essayist, (Como)
[edit] Other peopleArthur Blessitt (born 1940), preacher, most famous for carrying a cross through every nation of the world, (Greenville)
Miriam Chamani (born 1943), Mambo Priestess and co-founder of the New Orleans Voodoo Spiritual Temple, (Jackson)
Cynthia Cooper, Vice President and whistleblower at WorldCom, (Clinton)
James Copeland (1823–1857), outlaw and co-leader of the Wages and Copeland Clan, (Jackson County)
Cat Cora (born 1967), only female Iron Chef America in franchise history, (Jackson)
James A. Ford (1911–1968), archaeologist, (Water Valley)
Fred Haise (born 1933), former NASA astronaut, (Biloxi)
Elizabeth Lee Hazen (1885–1975), microbiologist who contribution in the development of nystatin, (Rich)
Larry Hoover (born 1950), leader of the Gangster Disciple Nation gang, (Jackson)
Leslie Hubricht (1908–2005), biologist and malacologist, (Meridian)
Mary Comfort Leonard (1856–1940), founder of the Delta Gamma Fraternity, (Kosciusko)
L.H. Musgrove (died 1868), outlaw hanged by a vigilante committee in Denver, Colorado, (Panola County)
Haller Nutt (1816–1864), planter, builder of Longwood, (Jefferson County)
The Scott Sisters, convicted in a controversial case that has drawn national attention
Lenny Skutnik (born 1953), celebrity rescuer of 1982 disaster victim
Roy A. Tucker (born 1951), astronomer, (Jackson)



Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 07:40 AM

Well, Spaw, some folks like The Simple Seeker make a career out of defending pieces of shit like Forrest.

Go figure.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: ollaimh
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 02:05 PM

when i toured the south back thirty years ago i did meet a lot of friendly nice people. (in facr much more helpfull and friendly than most canadians)sometimes o wonder where they are? are they intimidated by the klan? did the culture go backwards in time? its just hard to fathom how the last holdouts for slavery in the advanced world who held out at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives would be seen as anything but the recalcriant cowards they were. they were willing to cost hiundereds of thousands of lives rather than cost a change of ideas--long overdue.

and i am shocked how many such racist supporterd show up on mudcat with quibles and spin about how it wasn't about slavery--then why didn't they free the slaves and fight for states rights?

and especially i am deeply offended by the lionization of the murdering leaders. not just nathan bedford forest but robert e lee jefferson davis abd stone wall jackson all ordered the execution of black soldiers captured in uniform. thats murder by the most cowardly people imaginable!

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 08:46 PM

The 'far left' loonies have over used the word, so much, it almost means nothing anymore! Down deep, in the hearts of most Americans, that I know, we don't give a shit what color or nationality ANYONE is(as long as they are here legally, but as humans it doesn't matter)..and that's a FACT! ONLY liberal wannabe phonies conjure up the word, when someone doesn't buy into one of their baseless opinions!

It's not working, anymore...THANK GOD!
Those who use the 'race card', is only calling attention to the fact that they got their heads so far up their ass, that if they did a somersault, they'd disappear!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 09:02 PM

Ah, the famous Mudcat tolerance for other views.

So perhaps Mr. RO is not the only one who prefers his history as a comic book--and has a terrible allergy to research.

Gee, and I was just going to compliment Mr. RO for staying out of the gutter.   A real effort, since it's evident that's his real home.

But at least let me compliment you, Mr. RO on destroying your own argument so efficiently.   If you learn nothing else in this thread, perhaps you can learn the "Hitler rule"--that if you bring Hitler into a discussion where he obviously has no place, you reveal the total bankruptcy of your position.

As well as making yourself a laughingstock---an accomplishment you clearly have totally mastered.

So, then, back to topic:    if you think Forrest was a "mass murderer", let's have exact sources and direct quotes.    NB:    "Ft. Pillow" is not an answer.   We need details. Then we will discuss the topic further.



Sorry I haven't gotten to this recently. Had a Martin Luther King concert yesterday.   Wonderful concert--even wound up in a spontaneous singing with some black groups backstage, of a song we learned Saturday.    Written by the founder of Sweet Honey in the Rock-- who received an award yesterday and said the singing at the concert was something she had been looking for for 30 years, since she arrived in DC.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 09:13 PM

"Few people are one-dimensional".   Brilliant.   Go to the head of the class.

Now does that include Forrest?    Yes or no.   No tome necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 09:23 PM

Ron, Most of the very opinionated left loony liberals tend to run away as fast as they can, from factual history and/or science!...then resort to dribbling out some accusation, of name calling, to 'prove their point'...which of course, they might have just made up!!!..UNLESS they are parroting some other dumb-fuck political moron who just made up a 'new fact' to squawk about, as if there was ever anything to it! I guess one can come up with anything in a loaded stupor...and if it sound plausible, to some other loaded, delusional sensationalist, it gathers 'new momentum'!!...Pretty soon they have a 'movement'....but in reality, its just a bowel movement!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 10:05 PM

Mr. RO et al. might want to keep in mind that calling somebody a POS tends to support the view that you think that person is in fact one-dimensional.

Just a hint in how the English language works. Since he seems to need the instruction.

But you don't need to thank me. Glad to do it,

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 09:12 AM

Well, Bruce & Spaw -

Ron, a.k.a. the Omniscient and Infallible Simple Seeker After Truth, is an interesting study. This thread is a good example; there are other threads, and other victims.

This particular tempest in a piss-pot is created out of whole cloth - he puts words in the mouth of his victin-de-jour, assumes (by some arcane process of divination, I suppose) what this person "thinks" and/or "means"& supplies supporting "evidence" that is no evidence at all.

Having thus erected this colussus of invention& mis-statement, he proceeds to flail away at it with his usual vigorous & reckless style of bloviation, in essence assailing himself and his own arguments! Apparently he gets some sort of gratification from this self-abuse. Perhaps he's grown hair on his palms.

Even more entertaining, while he's thrown the same sort of hissy fit about my postings at least a half-dozen times on this forum before and in each and every instance, after his tantrums, attacks, snide comments & miscellanius irrelevant bullshit, he has been forced to admit that I was right in the first instance. (easily checked !)

Yet he persists.

He also seems unable to grasp the concept that tho someone may be a reformed piece of shit, or a charitable piece of shit, or even a born-again piece of shit, they're still a piece of shit.

But let it go- Simple is what he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 05:58 PM

If I'm the Bruce ya referred to, what's got your shorts in a knot?

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 06:29 PM

Hi, Bruce-

Well, its just venting about our old buddy The Simple Seeker. Pretty slippery individual - you address a point he raises, and if he feels he's getting the worst of it, he just oozes on over to something completely different.

One of those folks that argues simply for the sake of arguement.

Best to let it go, I suppose.

Hope you're well-

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 12:00 PM

Gotcha. Thanks, Greg. So, whadya think of the Celtics this season . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 12:38 PM

Well, Bruce,

Afraid I don't follow sports much since the Dodgers left Brooklyn.

I'm with Pete Hamill- Three worst men in history: 1.Hitler; 2.Stalin; 3.Walter O'Malley

Be well-

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 12:54 PM

Add: Edward Longshanks and Julius Caesar to that list. They were just
as bad as those three.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 02:53 PM

Is this foxhole still around mudcat? He could be "a beloved troll" or he could be "Troll".




"Ron, Most of the very opinionated left loony liberals tend to run away as fast as they can, from factual history and/or science!...then resort to dribbling out some accusation, of name calling, to 'prove their point'...which of course, they might have just made up!!!..UNLESS they are parroting some other dumb-fuck political moron who just made up a 'new fact' to squawk about, as if there was ever anything to it! I guess one can come up with anything in a loaded stupor...and if it sound plausible, to some other loaded, delusional sensationalist, it gathers 'new momentum'!!...Pretty soon they have a 'movement'....but in reality, its just a bowel movement!!!"

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 03:00 PM

Soon as I figure out what you`re on about, I`ll try to respond. Can`t get back for two or three months, however.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 09:25 AM

The South lost. Period
Leonard Pitts • Columnist • newsleader.com

February 25, 2011

Nathan Bedford Forrest was a cotton planter and a trader in horses, cattle and black people. At the outbreak of the Civil War, Forrest, whose business dealings had made him wealthy, raised a cavalry unit to fight for the Confederacy. He is remembered as an instinctive military genius whose daring and unpredictability gave Union forces fits.

He is also remembered for leading a rebel band that overwhelmed a Union stronghold, Fort Pillow, Tenn., massacring 300 mostly black soldiers and civilians, including children, after the soldiers had dropped their weapons. According to official reports, black soldiers were nailed to logs, buried alive, gunned down where they stood.
Finally, Forrest is remembered as a founder and the first "Grand Wizard" of the Ku Klux Klan. The Klan, of course, is America's pre-eminent terrorist group; in its various permutations, it has been responsible for countless acts of violence against blacks and others it deemed inferior, including the notorious 1963 church bombing in which four little black girls were killed.

This is the legacy of Nathan Bedford Forrest. At this writing, the state of Mississippi is considering whether to honor that legacy through the issuance of vanity license plates.

And perhaps an observer might be forgiven for wondering what in the world there is to consider. The request to honor Forrest was made by the Mississippi branch of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, a group often found neck deep in attempts to rewrite and sanitize the odious history of the Confederacy. For what it's worth, Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour has said he doesn't think the state legislature will approve the vanity plate. But he rejected a call by the Mississippi NAACP to denounce the idea. "I don't go around denouncing people," he said, piously.

Presumably, he would be equally nonjudgmental if his state were to consider similar honors to Osama bin Laden, convicted spy Robert Hanssen or Columbine killers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. Their legacies, after all, are combined in Forrest: terrorist, traitor, mass murderer.

On April 12, it will be 150 years since the Civil War began. That is the distance from telegraph lines to smart phones, from steam engines to space shuttles, from Lincoln to Obama. And yet even after all that time, some of us are still unable to conquer the moral cowardice exemplified by Gov. Barbour and the Sons of Confederate Veterans. The South fought in defense of racism and slavery. It was soundly defeated, racism and slavery soundly repudiated. You'd think from that loss the South would have learned lessons of human rights and human dignity.

The past exists for one overriding purpose: to prepare us for the future. It is the great and wise teacher, though its lessons are often purchased at monstrous cost. Such was surely the case with the Civil War: 620,000 lives — 2 percent of the population — lost, the South left devastated.

Yet sometimes, you wonder if the South even knows it lost. Because, instead of learning those costly lessons and moving forward, too much of the South has spent too much of the last century and a half denying them and looking backward. It did so first through the expedience of lynch mob violence and Jim Crow laws. Now it clings to discredited 19th-century symbols like driftwood and obsessively reworks history trying to make the facts other than what they are.

But the facts are immutable.

You wish the South would finally accept that and move on. Instead, too many in that storied region are still absorbed in fighting a war that ended in 1865, seeking to vindicate a cause long ago lost. A man who betrayed this country, founded a terrorist group and committed mass murder is a man unworthy of honor.

It is pathetic that that even needs to be said.

**
Leonard Pitts is a columnist for the Miami Herald, 1 Herald Plaza, Miami, Fla., 33132. E-mail him at [e-mail].

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 10:39 PM

So, still no evidence that Forrest was a "mass murderer". What a surprise.

Two columns cited.

Looks like dear Mr. RO needs some instruction on how newspapers work, too.

He certainly does seem to have large gaps in his education.

Hey, no problem.

Columnists, like Mr. RO, specialize in outrage.   But the difference is that theirs is occupational outrage. They want readers. Excitement is far more important to them than accuracy.

It's interesting that Mr RO's standard of proof seems to be what columnists write.

I wonder if he would feel the same way about a column written by Krauthammer or Rove. Assuming of course he has heard of these gentlemen.

So sorry--some of us insist on higher standards of proof than what any columnist writes--regardless of where he is on the political spectrum.

But perhaps they don't in Mr. RO's circles.

That gives us a big clue on how seriously to take anything he says.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 01:08 PM

Of course, the Simple Slippery Seeker need not post any evidence that Forrest was NOT a mass murderer. He's exempt from his own criteria.

What a surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 01:24 PM

Apparently the Simple Seeker is too simple to be able to perform a simple web search.

http://www.coax.net/people/lwf/CW_FP.HTM

http://www.blackpast.org/?q=aah/fort-pillow-massacre-1864

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=moa;idno=AAW7861

http://collections.mnhs.org/MNHistoryMagazine/articles/43/v43i05p186-190.pdf

http://www.civilwaracademy.com/fort-pillow.html


And etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 01:59 PM

By the way, Jack Hurst,author of Nathan Bedford Forrest: A Biography cited by The Simple Seeker After Truth, is, in fact, a newspaper man and not an historian. Look him up.

So Simple's newspaper men somehow trump any other newspaper men.

Will the bullshit never end?

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 11:21 PM

Sorry, Mr RO.    You have yet to come up with any evidence. A web site is not evidence, A title of a book is not evidence.   If you are convinced Forrest was a mass murderer, let's have some real evidence.

You are the one who made the accusation, so the burden is on you to prove your case, not on anybody else to prove you right.

Since you still have an unfortunate problem reading, it seems, let me repeat what evidence in a historical question consists of.

It's specific direct quotes, with exact source.

It begins to look as if you for some reason cannot do this. Interesting.

But congratulations in pulling yourself out of the gutter. Wonder if you can stay out .

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 11:22 PM

Sorry, I spoke too soon.   Still in the gutter, I see.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 09:44 AM

A web site is not evidence,

Absolutely correct, Simple. But the historical documents & citations posted thereon most certainly are. Try reading them before you make a fool of yourself. Assuming you CAN read, of course..

specific direct quotes, with exact source

On the websites cited, Simple.

Also available, the Congressional testimony regarding the KKK. Intro here: http://www.paperlessarchives.com/kkk_1871_testimony.html
Check it out. It ain't just Fort Pillow that's down to your Grand Wizard hero..


PS: Your specific quotes with exact sources, are where, precisely?

Apparently the Simple bullshit Simply WILL never end.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 05:12 PM

I've attempted to bite my tongue and refrained from comment here but:
As a Canadian with many close American ties and a history junkie I believe that racism played its part but was less than a "them or us " mentality that motivated fighters on either side. The economic advantages of slavery did not fall heavy upon fighters but the end result started to change a system can only be described one of the most shameful in the history of humanity. There are not many sports stories in the newspaper that bring tears to my eyes but this one did even as it was many years after the Civil war ended!
Robinson in Canada

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 09:59 AM

Thanks for the info on Jackie Robinson plaque, Sandy.

The other comments are somewhat irrelevant to the career of Nathan Bedford Forrest, who made his fortune buying and selling slaves, was a virulent white supremecist, terrorist and murderer in person and by proxy.

Its obvious that the economic advantages of slavery fell pretty heavily upon Forrest and that he did, indeed, display a them or us mentality both during the war and as head of the Klan.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 04:40 PM

Says:

From: Q - PM
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 01:19 PM

"The Confederate flag also is used in celebration of the brave men who fought on the losing side, many of whom died during the War. They have just as much right to be remembered by their descendants as those who fought on the Union side."

1. The Confederate flag used today is the battle flag of the Confederacy resurrected in 1954 by George Wallace. The original Confederate secessionist flag of South Carolina was a single white star on a blue field. 2. The losing side were supporters of slavery. They have a right to be remembered as racists and traitors to the unification of the United States. 3. In the African-American community the Confederate flag is comparable to the swastika. 4. Nathan Bedford Forrest is infamous in his brutal attacks on Black people as Hitler's minions did against the Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 08:24 PM

So it seems this hasn't been attended to recently.


Congressional testimony is not the final answer, dear Greg.

If you think Congressional testimony is likely to give all sides of an issue, you are even more naive than I thought.   And that's saying something.

Among other things, you obviously have no idea of the atmosphere surrounding the testimony in this case--and the obvious desired verdict.

So, as i said, you give your direct quotes, with source; i'll give mine, and we'll see how it goes from there.   

I want to say I do appreciate your efforts to stay out of the gutter. Let's see if you can keep it up.   I have faith that you can.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 08:27 PM

..."as I said, you give your direct quotes, with source; I'll give mine...."

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 08:59 PM

Being one white boy with a long history in the African American community what Strings says about how black people view the Confederate flag is 100% correct... Maybe if Southerners had done due diligence in making it a symbol of respect for those who died in the Civil War it might be different but Redneck Nation has taken it as their symbol of ***hate***...

That is the real story here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: ollaimh
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 10:25 PM

its sick and disturbing how its in fact the right who "make up" history. the execution of black prisoners of war in uniform is an established fact as much as any fact in history. the order signed by davis, lee and jackson still exist.

there were war criminals and murders. its the sad story of denial that keeps america backward and refusing to seize the glorious tradition of the aclu and the fight for liberty.


forest then went on to found the kkk. that's who you are honouring. and the brave soldiers on both sides. do we honour the brave ss soldiers who fought for nazy ideals. i certainly don't nor do any decent ethical an moral people. the csa soldiers were fighting for something as evil as any nazi state. it is statement to the ignorance and bigotry of the american mainstream right that they will not let go of their own home grown revisionist history.

and as to states rights , what horse manure. every southern state issued a declaration of seccession. they are easily found in any history or on line--all of them put slavery first and foremost as their reason for seccession. texas openly put forth the proposition that america and texas are to be a white only state--pure white supremmists.

south carolina was forty to forty five per cent black--if they has voted there was no way they pass a seccession referendum. most other sca states had upwards of thirty per cent balck population.. again this was a pure white supremist state.

those who support it or give it succor of any kind are pure unrepentant racists, and nazi's.

if you want tolerance you have to give it, no good people are tolerant of the most destructive forces in history and in the present world.

soi make up your silly revissionist "facts"

its really a shame sherman wasn;t allowed to finish the job. so i happily sing the old song"marching through georgia. that was an army of liberty fighting for the best in mankind against the most evil totsalitarian white supremist state, and its ignorant bigoted racist supporters

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 09:55 AM

So Sorry, Simple Seeker -

I've provided more than ample source material and multiple links to appropriate documentation, as anyone who has actually FOLLOWED those links and READ the sources can readily attest.

Just because you choose not to agree with those sources or to ignore them it doesn't follow that I'll going to play your standard game of Simple Seeker Says, bait-and-switch, and duelling cut-and-pastes rope-a-dope.

You yourself have provided none of your cherished "direct quotes" but the opinion of a single newspaperman.

Once again: You Lose. Conclusively.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 11:29 PM

Au contraire, Greg.   I have given direct quotes. You don't like the source. Fine.   I have others.

But it's your turn to give direct quotes with source---or be confirmed as the #1 addict of Recreational Outrage---who on top of that can't understand that history is just not a comic book.

Good thing you are in fact not a teacher--grading students on how much they regurgitate your own prejudices and conform to your simplistic attitudes.

Since there can be no doubt that as a teacher that's what you would do.

Looking forward to your next calm, well-thought-out response.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 12:08 AM

Today Glen Beck re educated his audience regarding the assasination of MLK. "HE was not shot defending collective bargaining of garbage workers, he was there for the whole black thing!"

Last year Rev. Beck preached on the subject of the evils of social justice and the misguided attempts by churches and MLK to promote the evils of social and economic justice.

"Obama hates white people"

Yes Glen Beck celebrates racism as a divide and conquer strategy for his billionarie bosses. I do not know how much of the propoganda he is paid to repeat that he may actually believe, but he does portray a white racist bigot with god's love in his heart better than most.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 08:54 AM

Simply your usual bullshit, Simple. Or maybe you're just delusional?

You provided a single source - do read the thread - the opinion of a newspaperman who wrote a popular book on Forrest.

You can keep sqwaking "direct quites, direct quotes" like a parrot if you wish, but the multiple sources I've provided speak for themselves as any idiot - well, apparently not ANY idiot- can see.

So once again,

You Lose.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 09:00 AM

... a white racist bigot with god's love in his heart...

Sounds rather like Jack Hurst's take. Maybe Beck in channelling Forrest, Donuel.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 10:53 AM

Greg, I have changed my mind after much thought. It is a stupid idea for a license plate. WAY far stupid. You were right to begin with. Now, if one of those crows comes closer . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 01:02 PM

Hey, Bruce-

Unfortunately, plenty more way stupid ideas being aggressively pushed by the Sons of the Confederacy in other states.

I really don't understand how they can think that ANY of them are appropriate, but there you have it.

This is still a white man's country.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 01:57 PM

Racism in Alberta is on the rise. Here is an article about it. It even
explains Neo-Nazi terminology and symbols.
Celebrating Racism

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrating Racism
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 02:32 PM

I got into it with those assholes when I lived in central Alberta near the Sask border. They look stupid even in real life, and the IQ total of the lot is about what one would expect. In a way they are unique because they have been able to take IQ points into negative numbers.