BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections

Subject: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: evansakes
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:28 AM

Having watched the awards live using the 'red button' facility, thought I'd give my tuppenyworth.

First, full credit to the producers and broadcasters for what looked like an extremely well organised event. Speaking as someone who's never had the opportunity to attend I'm grateful we could sit at home and watch in this way. Despite not being on a proper channel the production didn't seem to be cheap either. The sound was good and Mike harding did a decent job as anchorman. Barbara Dickson was a more surprising choice...she wasn't quite as confident but I suppose she was picked because she was more Radio 2 friendly. I suppose an eyebrow or two may have been raised by virtue of the fact she had somehow obtained a performance slot!

All the other performances were excellent with the possible exception of Donovan who seemed a little rusty....not all the music was to my taste but no complaints. Chris Wood deserves a special mention for a mesmerising rendition of Hollow Point.

Some of the winners wouldn't have been my choice either but I don't have any problemes with ANY of those chosen.

My major gripe was the choice of some of the presenters. I assume for funding and audience-boosting reasons they felt they had to choose a couple of celebrity luvvies. Might have been better to have gone for people with a few more folk credentials. Tamsin Greig and Joanna Trollope were tedious, patronising, self-serving and generally embarrassing. Frank Skinner seemed to think he was doing a slot down at the Comedy Store but at least he had a couple of funny lines. Mark Radcliffe was much better....at least he knows his stuff, knows the scene etc. As for Daltrey and Armatrading....I've got a lot of time for both but why choose them at a folk awards? Joan freely admitted she hadn't heard of some of the nominees....

If these folks help with the funding and/or profile though, I can live with it.

Overall, thanks BBC for a job well done!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:42 AM

Thanks for a well thought out critique.
I was lucky enough to be there, and, we can all have opinions on who should/shouldn't have got a gong, I thought that it was generally even handed. I thought Mr Daltrey announcing Andy Cuttings award, was very generous about the Folk scene coming to his aid for a cancer charity gig last year. and Mr Cutting is an honorary member of the Who nowadays!
I was surprised that it even ended up on the Red button TV wise. That must have cost a lot of money, counting the number of TV trucks outside.
For those who missed it, musical highlights are still available on Freeview channel 301. And no doubt the Radio 2 broadcast on BBC I-player listen again, for the next few days.
I think the BBC should be applauded for even contemplating such a gig. Never mind that your favourite act didn't get a gong. If you watch it, I'm sure that you will find some artist to your taste. If not....Why watch it?!!!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:49 AM

They regularly have had presenters relevant to the award recipient, like Sean Bean or Bob Hoskins for John Tams. Andy Cutting has played with The Who several times recently, and they love him. Hence Roger Daltry.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 09:10 AM

As I've suggested here, I wish it was all a lot more traditional; and, accordingly, I enjoyed Fisherman's Friends' performance the most.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: evansakes
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 09:22 AM

Cheers, Ralphie. I thought it better to start a new thread as the 'demo' and 'Bellowhead' ones weren't really appropriate (and they had been slightly sidetracked and/or derailed in some way)

Hopefully this one remains non-partisan and on topic...

One thing I wondered....I hadn't realised until someone mentioned it to me on Facebook yesterday. What happened to the 'folk club' award this year? Unless it was announced before the cameras started rolling....has it been quietly dropped?

Were they worried some of us who work at the coal face might not scrub up well enough for national TV? :-)

Personally if they were to revive it in future years I think it would be better to broaden the category to include small venues who do a lot of great work promoting folk music but would not be seen in any way as a 'folk club'. Lat year's winners (The Magpie's Nest) though well deserved wouldn't really be called a folk club by most people (more of a collective running events at a variety of venues but promoted under one umbrella).

If the parameters were changed I'd like to see an award going to somewhere like the Green Note (located a mere stone's throw from Cecil Sharp House)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 09:35 AM

No, there was no Folk Club award this year.
Although I can see what you mean, I can't really see the relevance. There are just too many clubs out there...who can possibly say that one is better than another? Each one would get votes from it's local audience. Just not quantifiable really. And, whichever one won, 99% of the audience would never have heard of it! Sad but true.
I've played in hundreds of clubs over 3 decades. Could I choose which one was the best? Not really. What parameter would I choose? Best Attended? Best Sound? Best Beer? Best Parking? Best Curry House next door?!!! Hope you understand my point.
It's nothing to do with scrubbing up well. I could come up with reasons to vote for Faversham in Kent, and the Bothy in Lancashire. Chalk and Cheese...Both incredibly worthy....
It's a dilemma.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 11:14 AM

I've followed the various threads about the BBC Folk Awards with interest. Like many of you I treated it as an opportunity to see a rare bit of broadly-based folk on TV, rather than expecting it to reflect my own tastes. I personally hate any thought of awards in my own world of "folk" – it's too precious to me to want to trivialise it by setting one song/tune/performance against another. But then again I love small, informal sessions and singarounds and don't even like concerts much, let alone "ceremonies". Still, as others have said, some of these awards do give exposure to some of the newer artists that helps them significantly in their careers. Also, almost any increase in folk programming is a good thing and, despite some of the recipients and some of the acts not being to my personal taste here (some definitely were), I'd say a thank you to the BBC for putting this on.

The programme was well presented, the filming and sound were good (I couldn't tell what Kate Rusby was singing either but apart from that..) and it was a full-length programme. I would hope in future that they could find people to present the awards who knew a bit more about folk music - or even music - or even something other than themselves. I thought both Tamsin Greig and Joanna Trollope were very poor choices and their inability to connect with the audience or recipients could have been predicted in advance. On the other hand, I thought the MCs were fine. It was a bit like winning your own raffle for Barbara Dickson to perform as well as present at the ceremony but she has been around the folk scene for a long time, as well as fronting a quite good Radio Scotland folk programme recently, so even if her song was not to my taste, I can live with it.

A final thought: I know that our friend Stuart Thomas was watching the Mudcat thread about the axing of Folkwaves (see the thread "The end of "Folkwaves" on BBC") so it's quite possible some BBC researcher is watching our views on this programme. I'm glad this thread has avoided the "complain at all costs" that seems to have seeped into some of the other threads about this broadcast and it's good to have a more positive thread. So I say again, well done to the BBC for putting this on: more please, perhaps some will be more to my taste and some more to yours - but at least we'll have something to watch and discuss.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 11:36 AM

SteveT.
My thoughts exactly....You just said it better than me!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 01:12 PM

I thought some acts and presenters were good...... and some were not so good. But great to see folky type music on TV.

Chris Wood's song "Hollow Point" was worth the licence fee on it's own.

Can't help but think that the profile given to all things folky by the awards is a good thing but I would like to see a little more adventure/ imagination shown in the winning & featured acts.

Definitely positive overall though.

Paul

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: Surreysinger
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 10:26 PM

Ralphie . Just a slight correction. You said "No, there was no Folk Club award this year.Although I can see what you mea,n I can't really see the relevance. There are just too many clubs out there...who can possibly say that one is better than another? Each one would get votes from it's local audience. Just not quantifiable really."
In fact, as I understand it the Folk Club award was actually one which was voted on by the artists, and not by the club attenders. There was therefore some merit in it, in that the performers were able to give some recognition to those clubs which had high standards/ enjoyability etc from amongst all of those which they had trekked around to during the year. (Still not infallible, obviously .. but if anyone can say that one club is better than another then obviously the artists can?)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 12 Feb 11 - 09:25 AM

My take was that by transforming "Folk Club of the Year" into the "Roots" award, the BBC have widened the eligibility and are reflecting that Folk Clubs are less important than they were. That a Band (The Levellers) won it this year does not mean that a Festival, Acoustic Session, Folk Club, Other Organisation or Individual would not win it another year, assuming the Awards are not scrapped in BBC cost cutting.

I've heard the tale that Folk Club of the Year was voted for by the "artists", but I've yet to meet an artist who was ever asked to vote, so I take that weevilly ship's biscuit with a large pinch of sea salt.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: Surreysinger
Date: 12 Feb 11 - 09:57 AM

Captain Jack - I was informed of at least one...

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: evansakes
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 06:14 AM

I wonder how the 'Roots' Award was chosen then.

Ditto the 'Good Tradition' award.

?? I'm guessing the names are just put forward by the organisers and the BBC

No complaints about The Levellers being awarded something of course....

Not a criticism....just asking!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: evansakes
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 06:53 AM

Here are Colin Irwin's reflections
as posted on Spiral Earth.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 08:17 AM

Thanks for the link to Colins critique... Very funny and insightful take on the proceedings!
Cheers!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: Cusco
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 10:25 AM

And a thanks to me for the Colin Irwin link. I'll bookmark that.

I took it in on the radio repeat. Out at football so missed the red button live show. Pity. Caught some of the red button highlights.

Fishermens Friends - a bunch of blokes singing at full volume doesn't do it for me. There doesn't seem to be any one with a particularly good voice in them. Rather boring to me.

Kate Rusby - I was once full of admiration for her but countless songs rendered in the same way I now find tiring. I could hardly tell what she was singing. Poor diction or poor soundman I couldn't say but I was happy when it ended.

Coop, Boyes & Simpson - had evrything in their singin that the Fishermens Friends lack.

Donovan - The Sky documentary of a few weeks ago had sent me on a search through his back catalogue. His direction after his Universal Soldier EP was a blind alley for me anyway. A listen to 'The best of...' just confirmed it. I thought there was a degree of misplaced delusions of grandeur in his speech. He seemed to be claiming credit for all the young 'uns. I'll give him the benefit of maybe suffering from a cold but his performance seemed ropey to say the least.

Chris Woods - I've heard him before but I've not heard the song. Mesmerising. I've rarely heard anything that has impressed and affected me as much as that performance.

I'll limit myself to that I think except to say Roger Daltrey more than vindicated his presence.

It will be intersting to hear what Bill Caddick has to say about it when I see him next week.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: evansakes
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 06:30 PM

http://folkcasters.blogspot.com/2011/02/sticky-questions-about-folk-awards.html including these thoughts on the Mumfords conundrum

"However, the reason that the Mumfords, Noah etc haven't been nominated is not that they've simply been ignored. It's not even that they aren't folk, beyond a simplistic definition dreamed up by a journalist looking for an angle. No, the real reason is that there is a great deal of far more interesting music out there, and even that doesn't all get a look in"

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2011-reflections
From: evansakes
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 06:33 PM

Link to website in the above post