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Tech: Big problem getting posts to post

Janie 13 Feb 11 - 11:53 PM
Janie 13 Feb 11 - 11:54 PM
Janie 13 Feb 11 - 11:57 PM
Janie 14 Feb 11 - 12:07 AM
The Fooles Troupe 14 Feb 11 - 12:09 AM
JohnInKansas 14 Feb 11 - 12:29 AM
Janie 14 Feb 11 - 12:40 AM
Janie 14 Feb 11 - 12:48 AM
Joe Offer 14 Feb 11 - 12:52 AM
Janie 14 Feb 11 - 01:28 AM
JohnInKansas 14 Feb 11 - 01:51 AM
Little Robyn 14 Feb 11 - 02:07 AM
Artful Codger 14 Feb 11 - 03:36 AM
Mr Red 14 Feb 11 - 05:20 AM
MGM·Lion 14 Feb 11 - 06:00 AM
MGM·Lion 14 Feb 11 - 06:01 AM
Bill D 14 Feb 11 - 12:34 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 14 Feb 11 - 12:58 PM
Jack Campin 14 Feb 11 - 01:06 PM
Bill D 14 Feb 11 - 01:19 PM
Bill D 14 Feb 11 - 01:24 PM
GUEST,Jon 14 Feb 11 - 01:26 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Feb 11 - 03:18 PM
GUEST,Grishka 14 Feb 11 - 03:24 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Feb 11 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,Jon 14 Feb 11 - 03:57 PM
The Fooles Troupe 14 Feb 11 - 04:13 PM
JohnInKansas 14 Feb 11 - 05:54 PM
Bill D 14 Feb 11 - 05:59 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Feb 11 - 06:26 PM
JohnInKansas 14 Feb 11 - 06:41 PM
Bill D 14 Feb 11 - 10:39 PM
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Subject: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Janie
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 11:53 PM

Just tried 5 times to get a post to post to the Arthritis thread. Just prior to the 5th time I tried refreshing first. Still no joy. Never had this happen before, i.e. if it wouldn't post, what I had typed was lost. I can still hit the back button and get to the box where I typed.

Wonder if this new thread will post.

I normally use Safari but am currently using Firefox, fwi.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Janie
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 11:54 PM

Well, this posted, so it is not, apparently, my browser.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Janie
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 11:57 PM

Tried my post a 6th time to the arthritis thread. Still did not take.

I'll copy it to pages, refresh, copy it back to the dialog box in that thread and then see what happens.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Janie
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 12:07 AM

Worked, doing that.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 12:09 AM

I've had a few posts 'fade' - show up on an immediate thread refresh, then vanish - while they COULD be manually deleted, the posts in particular were - even for me! :) innocuous and harmless... so somehow something is not 'sticking'... not really a problem for me ...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 12:29 AM

My usual problem is that I'm so slow at composing my posts that the thread has changed before I hit submit. That appears to sometimes drop my post, which I attribute to my trying to post to a thread that no longer exists (in the same form or "at the same address" it was in the "Reply" box from which I submit).

I've seen some times when a post may hang, possibly due to server overload. It usually happens at about 09:00 to 13:00 London time, so I guess that must be when the UK lurkers take their morning coffee and are busy flipping through the threads. I attribute my failure to see a similar "burp" in the afternoon to all the lurkers being at the pub where they're tossing darts at each other instead of at their fellow catters here.

During the past week or so it has looked like the whole web is a bit "slow" and some pages (other than mudcat) have presented "jerky" loading, possibly indicating lots of transmission errors and re-sends. That could be due to the rather bizarre weather over large areas of the US during the times I've seen it. I suppose I should look at what servers have been below optimumm but it hasn't been bothersome enough to stimulate my curiosity quite enough - yet.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Janie
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 12:40 AM

Robin, my post(s) was not showing up at all after I hit "submit." After hitting "submit," the main thread page would appear, just as it always does after I submit a post, but the post did not appear, and the thread did not appear at the top of the queue, as happens to a thread when it is refreshed by a post.

Sometimes I will have a post not "take." I generally figure I must have hit a wrong button. Most of the time when that occurs, however, I have lost what I typed for good, i.e. hitting the back button will not bring up the dialog box containing what I typed. In this instance, however, I was able to get back to the dialog box each time by hitting the back button. Each time I again hit "submit." It was not until I copied my post (not so valuable that it could not bear to be lost, but I did want to figure out what was the problem,) to pages, then went back to Mudcat and selected the thread anew, then copied to the dialog box that the post appeared and the thread refreshed due to the new post.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Janie
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 12:48 AM

I don't quite follow you, John. From my most recent description of what happened, does it make sense within the context you described?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 12:52 AM

Janie, it sounds like you're having the same non-posting problems I've had. Bill Day's solution has always worked for me: refresh the page using your browser's refresh button (not the refresh link at Mudcat).
THEN post or paste the message, and submit again.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Janie
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 01:28 AM

I never did use the browser refresh button, Joe. Howver, instead of continuing to hit the submit button, I clicked on the thread again to open it, and copied my post from Pages.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 01:51 AM

High traffic - a lot of people changing threads at the 'cat - can result in "request collisions" or simply in delays in transmission. A delay is a "fumble" and somebody has to go back and pick up the ball to throw it again.

Your connection to mudcat invariably goes through several "relay servers" that must each receive and pass on each cluster of information that's sent back and forth. High traffic at any of the relays can also cause lost or delayed communication.

Mudcat, or your computer, or any of the relays in the communication path may "time out" a connection, in effect losing the identity that ties your next communication to mudcat, and an entire new transmission path may have to be created.

It is almost never possible to find a specific reason for a particular failure to post.

If a post fails to appear, a procedure that often works is to use your Back button to try to recover what you typed and then:

Step 1. CLOSE the thread by going back to the "Lyrics and Knowledge" page.

Note that if you use the Back button, it's possible that you'll see the L&K page from a copy in your temp folder rather than a new download of the page. It's safer to use the link at the top of each page if you're really having a problem.

Step 2. Reopen the thread.

Clicking on the link to the thread should give you a fresh copy of the thread and requires a sufficient communication between your computer and mudcat so that it "resets" your communication path.

Step 3. Try the post again.

While there are no guarantees, I've found the above to be usually successful, and essentially it is what you eventually did.

On the first failure to post, you usually can use the back button to get back to your entry in the Reply box. It's recommended that you IMMEDIATELY click in the box, Ctl-A to select the entire message, and then Ctl-C to copy it. (If you're really nervous, paste your typing into Word or Notepad at this time.)

Again, though, the page you get with the Back button probably will be on your own computer in a temp file. It probably is NOT directly "connected" to mudcat and "going back" doesn't necessarily tweak the connection to mudcat.

With the content of your post safely in your clipboard, you can go to step 1 above and "freshen everything up" to retry the post.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Little Robyn
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 02:07 AM

When it happened to me the first time, I lost my post. So when it happened another time (on a different day) I cut and pasted onto a word document and tried again later. It worked then so I guess it was just overload somewhere.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Artful Codger
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 03:36 AM

I strongly recommend that you don't paste into a word processor like Word or Pages because it tends to convert your quote characters and such into the very problem characters that I've been ranting about in the "Entering special characters" and the "Non-ASCII character display problems" thread. Paste into a plain-text editor instead (TextEdit, Notepad, TextWrangler...).


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 05:20 AM

When I have problems it is usually because someone else started on the thread after me, typed faster and posted, and now the URL I opened with is out of date. But you don't look at the address - do you? The real problemo is that I have to exit the browser to unlock the situation. One for the webmeister I submit, m'lud.

Cookie anyone?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 06:00 AM

When I have written a long post that I would rather not have to recompose from the top in the, not all that infrequent, occurrence of its failure to post, I will generally Select All & copy it on to a World Book Notepad page & retain it on desktop until it has safely posted, which Sod's Law seems to ordain that it generally does when I have taken that precaution. If it fails, I have simply to leave Firefox, return & re-open Mudcat, reconnect to that thread & copy/paste it into the Reply to Thread frame. Almost always succeeds the second time. If not, then it's still there on Desktop.

Let's not do that this time & see what happens.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 06:01 AM

... and, bingo, it posted first time off. Just goes to show ~~ what, exactly?!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 12:34 PM

Since I am 'referenced', I will 2nd Artful Codger's suggestion that for these issues, it is good to have a small text editor like EditPad lite or MetaPad. EditPad has 'more' features, but Metapad will serve well for simple text editing.

And as Joe Offer notes, using the browser instead of just Mudcat's 'refresh' button will 'usually' solve things. If you keep in mind that the term is **reload**, it helps. That puts a new copy of the Mudcat page in your browser's cache. (I 'think' that occasionally Mudcat gets confused when several 'refreshes' or posts happen simultaneously......but that is only a gut feeling.)

(I am quite aware of the overall power and complexity of MS Word, but for many operations it IS serious overkill, and as noted it may perform operations and changes that only make sense within Word itself.)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 12:58 PM

It's been happening to me too, and I've seen people mention in various threads that their posts have not appeared. Cheers to Bill D for the heads-up about the notepads: When I'm using my PC I really miss having a handy jotter like Apple's Text Edit.

WordPad seriously does not float my boat (is there ANY way to change the default settings so you don't get Calibri 11 in teensy print, with that annoying double line-spacing and silly margins? I can change them anew each time but have found no preferences to set that permanently addresses these issues. Anyway, think I'll just use one of the above - Bill, do you have a preference as to which of them is handier?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 01:06 PM

Checking Preview seems to increase your chances of having the post go through.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 01:19 PM

Bonnie..I use MetaPad for quick, simple C&P or for saving some text that I want to go back to later.
EditPad is just as good, and will allow some really nice formatting tricks...and will even do encoding and ROT-13 (as in naq jvyy nyybj fbzr ernyyl avpr sbeznggvat gevpxf...naq jvyy rira qb rapbqvat naq EBG-13)

I just use both, depending on what I'm after. (I have both little icons on my desktop, just barely visible to the right of my browser, which I NEVER enlarge to fill the screen)

Everyone has their little preferences.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 01:24 PM

If you wanted to go even further, there is NotePad ++, a free, open source, text editor that is a step or two above EditPad (though EditPad has a bigger brother you must pay for)

and...sure there are a dozen more free ones...but I collect 'em as a hobby.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 01:26 PM

It happens to me sometimes too. Sometimes it has appeared to be due to some filtering for "bad words" other times, I've seen no reason for it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 03:18 PM

For a while it was very common. Then it got rare. Now it seems to be back big stylee.

I find I can usually use my "back" button to retrieve my entry, then copy it out, refresh or reload by browser, then paste back in.

I do think that saving a long post to Word or something to save it is worth doing ASAP since if your computer crashes what you have in evanescent memory will be lost.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 03:24 PM

Several phenomena must be distinguished:
  1. The script crashes reproducably, by bugs e.g. in the transformation algorithm - bad luck for us, let's split the message.

  2. The script crashes for some time, perhaps because of unforseen database failures or other bugs depending on internal status - bad luck, let's retry.

  3. The script slams the door because of elementary faux pas such as including more than two links, being a mere GUEST.

  4. Well, the script sometimes does issue a point of criticsm, e.g. if you don't want to to type "International Musical Gathering - Society for the Restoration of Cultural Equality" and try to abbreviate it by IMG SRC= – try it out!

  5. Bad words seem to be tolerated. There may be some more subtle spam detection, but I have not managed to provoke it yet, not even with my most "geekish" comments.

We have to bear our hard fate with dignity.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 03:54 PM

I have reduced the frequency of loss by 'refreshing' before I post.

Occasionally something didn't post, but I used the 'back' button and waited a few minutes. Sometimes this worked.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 03:57 PM

Re 5. As far as I can remember "poker" was a "bad word" at one time.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 04:13 PM

"Sometimes I will have a post not "take." I generally figure I must have hit a wrong button. Most of the time when that occurs, however, I have lost what I typed for good, i.e. hitting the back button will not bring up the dialog box containing what I typed. "

Thanks Janie, I've been saying this for years, especially the 'lost permanently the entered data' bit!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 05:54 PM

A common "wrong button" occurs since usually people look at a thread and then hit Back to return to the thread index. Then when they've typed something they unconsciously hit "Back" instead of "Submit," relying on muscle memory from a muscle somewhere other than in their head.

If this might be what happened to you, sometimes you can hit the "Forward" arrow that's next to the Back arrow to go back to the post you had all your wisdom typed into. The probability that this will work is possibly a little less than for using "Back." Either can fail sometimes; but it's worth trying.

Usually you have a clue from the "Forward" button being "lit" if you "Backed" to where you are, but being "Dimmed" if you've been charging one-way ahead (in IE at least).

While statistical information on failures is valuable to the SysAdmins, you don't really have to tell anybody when you've done this. Blushing is permitted if not in the presence of someone who might mistake it for "arousal."

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 05:59 PM

"... hitting the back button will not bring up the dialog box containing what I typed. "

It will in Opera! Always...

I get varied results in other browsers.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 06:26 PM

The escape key is top left on my keyboard. Sometimes copying something from a book, the book has flopped on that key.

The only recourse is uncouth language.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 06:41 PM

It will in Opera! Always...

I get varied results in other browsers.


So we know that you got a lucky default setting in Opera, and haven't figured out how to change the temp memory settings in your other browsers?

(Couldn't resist the tweak.)

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Big problem getting posts to post
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 10:39 PM

LOL... lucky? Tweak away.... Nawwww.. Opera has been like that for 6-7 years now... at least. Memory doesn't seem to be the issue... it acts like someone just had a couple lines of code that said: "remember what's in edit boxes until this tab or the browser is closed"
In Opera I can post all day long and go back thru history for hours and still read my posted text.

(This is especially useful when answering PMs, as I can go back & forth.... without doing a C&P... in Firefox, I lose what *I* type if I leave the edit box. I can "open in a new tab", but I forget.)


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