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The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper

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GUEST,2CheersforTahir 16 Feb 11 - 08:41 AM
GUEST,2CheersforTahir 16 Feb 11 - 08:42 AM
GUEST,Richard I 16 Feb 11 - 08:59 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 11 - 09:05 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 16 Feb 11 - 09:09 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 16 Feb 11 - 09:12 AM
Fred McCormick 16 Feb 11 - 09:25 AM
GUEST,Jon 16 Feb 11 - 09:31 AM
GUEST,Steamin' Willie 16 Feb 11 - 09:41 AM
GUEST,Jon 16 Feb 11 - 09:45 AM
Spleen Cringe 16 Feb 11 - 09:54 AM
GUEST,leeneia 16 Feb 11 - 10:04 AM
GUEST 16 Feb 11 - 10:18 AM
Nigel Parsons 16 Feb 11 - 10:20 AM
Les in Chorlton 16 Feb 11 - 10:24 AM
bobad 16 Feb 11 - 10:25 AM
GUEST,Jon 16 Feb 11 - 10:30 AM
Nigel Parsons 16 Feb 11 - 11:02 AM
Jeri 16 Feb 11 - 11:06 AM
Lonesome EJ 16 Feb 11 - 11:20 AM
Jeri 16 Feb 11 - 11:23 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 16 Feb 11 - 11:35 AM
Nigel Parsons 16 Feb 11 - 11:36 AM
GUEST 16 Feb 11 - 11:45 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Feb 11 - 12:01 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 16 Feb 11 - 12:04 PM
GUEST,Eliza 16 Feb 11 - 12:13 PM
GUEST,2CheersforTahir 16 Feb 11 - 12:14 PM
GUEST,Eliza 16 Feb 11 - 12:16 PM
Lonesome EJ 16 Feb 11 - 12:27 PM
Acorn4 16 Feb 11 - 12:32 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Feb 11 - 01:09 PM
Jack Campin 16 Feb 11 - 01:10 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 16 Feb 11 - 01:13 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 11 - 02:20 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 16 Feb 11 - 02:28 PM
GUEST,Eliza 16 Feb 11 - 02:29 PM
GUEST,David E. 16 Feb 11 - 02:47 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Feb 11 - 06:10 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 11 - 06:38 PM
Jeri 16 Feb 11 - 06:55 PM
GUEST,David E. 16 Feb 11 - 11:52 PM
GUEST,Gerry 17 Feb 11 - 12:05 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 11 - 03:19 AM
Jack Campin 17 Feb 11 - 07:56 AM
GUEST 17 Feb 11 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,2CheersforTahir 17 Feb 11 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,PenguinEgg aka 2CheersforTahir 17 Feb 11 - 08:26 AM
GUEST,Desi C 17 Feb 11 - 08:46 AM
Ringer 17 Feb 11 - 09:13 AM
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Subject: Review: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,2CheersforTahir
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 08:41 AM

The Black Cloud of Islam Lyrics
Roy Harper

"I'm sick to the teeth of the news on the screen
of hisbullah scum and jihad the obscene
whose men plant the bombs and then live feeling free
to watch women and children be killed on T.V.
which satan delivers a child a death curse
in the name of a worn out collection of verse
I've not read the book so I cannot recite
but I'd bet Salman Rushdie is just about right
underneath the black cloud of islam
What kind of publicity needs so much blood
that's not for some sad diablical god
selling himself as a two-bit Macbeth
as the expect in sentencing cousins to death
and what kind of god can this be anyway
that you have to prostrate to him five times a day
with hate in your heart and a gun in your hand
is force the only thing to understand
underneath the black cloud of islam?
and the butchers who've got all this blood on their hands
are the ones who need god to be stood where he stands
blessing this kidnapping, murder and war
with books written hundreds of ages before
and woman in veils walking paces behind
doesn't sit easy in my mind
it speaks of oppression and no other choice
that rigid compliance with the loudest voice
underneath the black cloud of islam
You can put a lead bullet clean through this guitar
'cos I'm not overjoyed with the story so far
sharing a world with the nutters of god
is as good as being six feet under the sod
words that are written are all here to say
and these are the latest there are anyway
and I am the prophet so don't believe me
I'm the same as the old ones expect that I'm free
to give you a piece of my mind which is this
you're the worst of jehovas blind witlessnesses
with your feet in the door of the deepest abyss
which is underneath the black cloud of islam"

    Note from Joe Offer: By rights, I should delete this thread because it was started by someone using a false identity. Please keep in mind that you may post at Mudcat under one name, and only one name.
    The original poster may or may not be Penguin Egg, as claimed below. Whatever the case, the poster's identity is false, and is not to be trusted.
    -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-


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Subject: RE: Review: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,2CheersforTahir
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 08:42 AM

What do people think of this song? A damning indictment of an intolerant religion or a case of Islamophobia?


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,Richard I
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 08:59 AM

Very clumsy lyrically. Too many forced rhymes for my taste.

No doubt the song refers to very real feelings about brutality in the name of religion, and good on the singer for tackling that subect. But I don't think it's appropriate simply to trot out a series of stereotypes about Islam. In short, I think that songs should be about more than "stuff I saw on the news". I'd be more inclined to care about this song if there showed evidence of direct experience or, at the very least, research.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 09:05 AM

It's Islamophobia. He's demonising a billion people who by sheer accident of birth were born into Islam. No wonder many Muslims feel that their backs are constantly to the wall. It's ignorant bigotry.

Steve (atheist)


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 09:09 AM

How do you feel about this videoclip ?


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 09:12 AM

Except for the fact that it's actually funny.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 09:25 AM

Appalling shite. Mr Harper should remember that every religion has its bigots. Some of them end up writing this kind of crap.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 09:31 AM

From Wikipedia.

"Harper was born in 1941 in Rusholme, a suburb of Manchester. After the death of his mother, Muriel, during childbirth, he was raised in Blackpool by his father and stepmother, with whom he became disillusioned because of her Jehovah's Witness beliefs. Harper's anti-religious views would later become a familiar theme within his music."


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 09:41 AM

Expect a bit better from Mr Harper. I'm a tad disappointed.

I have Muslim friends, I work with Muslims and whilst irreligious myself, respect that people of any faith are following a moral compass.

I don't recognise my friends in any of that. None I know wear a veil other than one who wears it when attending prayers, none of them walk behind their husbands and to my knowledge are saddened when the media tar them with the same brush as those who use religion as an excuse for their more temporal issues. Jihad is just that, an excuse to appeal to peoples' faith in order to compel them to do the deeds of those hungry for power.

There are parallels in most organised religions, including (very much so) Christianity.

When my mother in law goes to church, I don't expect her to be attending brain washing sessions on how to oppress minorities, yet the Bishops love to push their bigotry on the telly?

Same with Islam. it is a way of life, a moral code and is being exploited by those who see religion as a tool. T'was ever thus.

A bit sad in the meantime for Mr & Mrs Khan down the street who want to make friends and get out more but have been brought up in a society where they are looked down on by others. But that's Western openness for you......


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 09:45 AM

S-R, what has your largely anti Christain rant to do with this?

The song is written by an anti religion person and appears to attack Islam.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 09:54 AM

Conclusive proof that the old cricketer has finally left the crease...


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:04 AM

By the time a person is 16, s/he ought to realize that criminals and warlords cloak their evil deeds in a thin veil of hypocrisy. Whether it's a quack selling useless medicines in the name of 'freedom of therapy' or whether it's al-Queda killing shoppers in the name of Islam, it's all evil and it's all b.s.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:18 AM

(I typed out a post before, but seem to have lost it. Hopefully this isn't a repeat post)
Roy Harper apparently wrote this song in 1989 in the wake of the angry response to Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses. He explains his own reasons here:
http://www.royharper.co.uk/blog/?p=127
It's essentially a lengthy diatribe on religious misinformation. I don't think these broader views justify misrepresentation of Islam, but people may find it interesting to read.

It's interesting to note that this song has been picked up and used by British National Party types for their own purposes; see, for example
http://wiganpatriot.blogspot.com/2010/01/black-cloud-of-islam-roy-harper.html
I guess this explains why we need a "folk against fascism" campaign. Roy Harper, whatever his intentions, plays into the hands of extremists when he spreads misinformation and uses inflamatory language like this.

A lesson to us all, I guess: Use your brain before you open your mouth.
    Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
    Thanks.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:20 AM

Am I alone in thinking that if these thoughts had not been expressed in song/rhyme they would have been would have been relegated to BS?

And if they had been, the thread could not have been started by a 'Guest'.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:24 AM

Fundamental problem:

How can we treat with respect groups of people who do not respect people within their own group.

I mention no specific group

L in C#


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: bobad
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:25 AM

You're right Nigel, only PC threads should be allowed.

Long live freedom of speech!


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:30 AM

I think Nigel meant this topic (even though it refers to a song) is a BS topic rather than a musical one. If that is what he meant, I agree with him.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:02 AM

That is what I meant, John.
This is political comment posing as a musical discussion, and guests are prevented from starting political comment discussions.

Cheers
Nigel


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:06 AM

It's about a song, Nigel You were well aware of that when you logged out and started this thread.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:20 AM

Jeri is right.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:23 AM

Performers take risks with what they sing. This one was a big risk. There aren't many things that would make me walk out of a performance, and I never have done so. This song would.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:35 AM

I'd imagine that Wafa Sultan would agree with most of the lines in that song, actually. But then she's not afraid to stand up and shout out about the evil that has taken over some parts of Islam at the moment...

And I think that is what Roy Harper is writing about, not about Mr. and Mrs. Khan next door.

As I said in another thread, it's way past time for all of us, far from walking out, or walking away, to stand beside Mr. and Mrs. Khan and all their good neighbours, family and friends, to rid Islam of the evil that has caused those words to be written, because sadly, whether we like it or not, there's a great deal of evil being done in the name of Allah in our times...


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:36 AM

Jeri:
It's about a song, Nigel You were well aware of that when you logged out and started this thread.
I resent the suggestion that I started this thread. I'm sure Joe, or some of the mud-elfs will be able to confirm that this is not the case. I can see no reason for your allegation & would appreciate its withdrawal!

I am happy to post here under my own name, with no reason for that sort of subterfuge.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:45 AM

"As I said in another thread, it's way past time for all of us, far from walking out, or walking away, to stand beside Mr. and Mrs. Khan and all their good neighbours, family and friends, to rid Islam of the evil that has caused those words to be written, because sadly, whether we like it or not, there's a great deal of evil being done in the name of Allah in our times..."

I'm all for solidarity with people who are suffering, BUT I don't see how you're hoping to stand alongside Muslims if you're singing songs that directly insult their religion.

Calling the Koran "a worn out collection of verse"
(then admitting "I've not read the book so I cannot recite
but I'd bet Salman Rushdie is just about right")
is a mindless attack on the sacred book of a religion.

Singing "what kind of god can this be anyway
that you have to prostrate to him five times a day
with hate in your heart and a gun in your hand"
Is an insult to all who perform their daily prayers.


This is not about whether or not we should be able to criticise Islam or any other religion in song. It's the MANNER in which he has chosen to frame the attack. Roy Harper's words are bigotry, plain and simple. He has chosen incendiary language, and it is little wonder that BNP members are the kind of people who post this song on their blogs.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:01 PM

A bigoted diatribe which, as Peter Laban pointed out, could equally have been levelled at the Catholic Church (as a whole, considering the role of the heirarchy in covering up, and even facilitating the rape of children over generations).
Whatever you might think of any religion (I seldom do), stereotyping all who fall under its influence in the way this somewhat inept piece of doggeral does is comparable with the worst of racism.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:04 PM

Listen to Wafa's videos, 'guest'...watch and listen to her...then go to the 'Former Muslims United' site and read what they have to say...

Video on 'Former Muslims United'

These people know FAR better than you, me and even Roy Harper, as to what is actually going on...and the people here who've dared to speak out against Islam are now living in fear of their lives...which is one of the reasons why the Good Guys in Islam stay so quiet, because Sharia Law states that anyone who leaves Islam, or who dares to speak out against it, can be killed by other Muslims...

Cool, huh?

If you think that's right, then God help us all, whomsoever your God may be...


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:13 PM

My husband is a Muslim, and I don't like the tone of these lyrics at all, they condemn all Muslims, whereas the majority are peaceful and gentle people. The women are not necessarily oppressed, and what's wrong with praying five times a day? One could write an equally vicious condemnation of, say, Christians during the Spanish Inquisition or The Crusades. However, I would stand by the right of anyone to express their opinion, no matter how bigoted, misguided or full of hate. Someone with this point of view and this degree of hate must have a reason, perhaps fear, and resentment of the heinous acts of terrorists and extremists seen on the News. What disturbs me most is that such a song could incite people to hate, and behave in a cruel and aggressive manner to all Muslims. That's dangerous.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,2CheersforTahir
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:14 PM

I am the one who originally posted the lyrics to the song. I don't know who Nigel is. I put it here and not in BS because it is a song, albeit, a political song.

As a song, I don't know whether it is any good or not. I would have to hear it sung, but it's sentiments I totally agree with. I cannot understand why the left have taken up the cause of Islamic extremism, which is in effect what they are doing. Look at Islamic countries where Muslims hold power: Public executions and amputations for criminals, stoning to death of adulaters (as happened in Afghanistan a couple of weeks ago), the persecution of apostates, with the death penalty imposed for such "crimes", and on and on. What do the left say about all this behaviour in Islamic countries? Nothing. They are mute.

As for Islamophobia, that is just a ruse by Islamists to stop criticism of their religion. They want to ban The Satanic Verses. If they succeed, and they may with the help of the left, then Hitchens will be banned, Dawkins will be banned, Sam Harris will be banned, Tom Paine will be banned, and all in the name of combating Islamophobia. I have no phobia about Islam. I hate the religion, but I do not hate Muslims, many of whom just want to live their lives and follow their religion without hindrance. Of course, we should make a distinction Islam and Muslims. It is Islamophobia which blurs the difference, and deliberately so too.

There is nothing racist about hating Islam, but there is something distasteful about playing the racist card when criticising a religion that is so brutal.

Still, it is interesting reading all the opinions.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:16 PM

I might add that I HAVE read ALL the Koran in translation, and if other people did, they might be better informed as to the true tenets of this religion.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:27 PM

A bigoted diatribe which, as Peter Laban pointed out, could equally have been levelled at the Catholic Church (as a whole, considering the role of the heirarchy in covering up, and even facilitating the rape of children over generations).
I am no proponent or apologist for the Catholic Church, but as far as I know no priest, bishop, or pope has made a statement that child rape is a good thing, and should be pursued by the faithful. Numerous Muslim clerics, including the Ayatollah Khomeini, have decreed that jihad be declared on individuals or nations and have condoned violence on these people in the name of God. This has created a perception that such announcements are neither highly unusual nor widely condemned within the Islamic World.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Acorn4
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:32 PM

I was under the impression that the Koran wasn't supposed to be translated.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 01:09 PM

"no priest, bishop, or pope has made a statement that child rape is a good thing,"
No they haven't, but priests unquestionably did rape children and bishops unquestionably covered up their crimes, often moving the rapist on to other parishes to 'keep up the good work'. Quite often the reporting of abuse to a church official led to the reporter being verbally attacked and threatened with eternal damnation, and when victims reported abuse, they were often treated to lectures on sex education. Blaming the victim for 'placing temptation in my path' was far from uncommon.
When reports of incidents reached the Vatican, the Church heirarchy actively hindered any action against the perpetrators and consistently refused to co-operate when the shit finally hit the fan.
The fact that nobody in the top echelons have actually 'fessed up' or verbally defended the rapists is more than a little academic really.
To date there had been no official acknowledgement by the the Church as a body of the part it played in abuses that were carried out for decades and possibly centuries.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 01:10 PM

Could somebody look up the IP of the original poster and let us all know who it is?


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 01:13 PM

I didn't want to make this about the Catholic Church. The intention of the link I posted was to show it's very very easy to stereotype a whole religion based on the crimes of some. The only thing, the video shows a sense of humour while the song, well, does not.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 02:20 PM

I hate the religion, but I do not hate Muslims, many of whom just want to live their lives and follow their religion without hindrance

That is very thoughtful of you, but you must realise that smearing Islam as you do in your other remarks, as with that song, is exactly the kind of behaviour that prevents ordinary Muslims from living their lives without hindrance. There may be many negative aspects of Islam, and, believe me, I'm no fan of that or of any religion, but every time we mention Islam in a negative context (which is almost a party game these days) we make life more difficult for the hundreds of millions of people who are only Muslims by sheer accident of birth.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 02:28 PM

From Nigel:

"Jeri:
.......
I resent the suggestion that I started this thread. I'm sure Joe, or some of the mud-elfs will be able to confirm that this is not the case. I can see no reason for your allegation & would appreciate its withdrawal!

I am happy to post here under my own name, with no reason for that sort of subterfuge."


I hope you get an apology, Nigel...and a public one at that.


I was called a 'dedicated and skilled troll' earlier on. Maybe she's having a bad day? Whatever though, I too felt her comments were out of order.

Hope tomorrow's better for you, Jeri.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 02:29 PM

Thank you Steve. As you so rightly say, this bigotry makes life difficult for the ordinary Muslims (like my kind and gentle husband).


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,David E.
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 02:47 PM

"...every time we mention Islam in a negative context we make life more difficult for the hundreds of millions of people who are only Muslims by sheer accident of birth."

You know who makes life difficult for these people? Radical Islam terrorists who decapitate, bomb, maim, threaten, oppress and brutalize in their religion's name, not the people who are reacting to it.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:10 PM

Oh come on...

This is Roy Harper we are talking about, The guy who's immortal lines

Watford gap, Watford Gap
Plate of grease and a load of crap


Got him banned from the BBC.

This is the guy who nearly died from a lung disiese after giving a sheep the kiss of life.

He must be laughing his arse off to how many people he has wound up. Does anyone seriously believe he wrote the song in ernest?

DeG


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:38 PM

"...every time we mention Islam in a negative context we make life more difficult for the hundreds of millions of people who are only Muslims by sheer accident of birth."

You know who makes life difficult for these people? Radical Islam terrorists who decapitate, bomb, maim, threaten, oppress and brutalize in their religion's name, not the people who are reacting to it.


Sorry, mate, but you've just fallen into the same trap. What do you mean by "radical Islam?" Do you not realise that the people to whom you refer are seldom, if ever, doing their dirty deeds in the name of Islam, whatever they say to try to get some false divine legitimacy? They do what they do for the same reasons as everyone else who does bad things, for political/military motives. Stop saying sloppy, lazy things like "radical Islam" and say precisely who it is you wish to criticise, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, whoever. You don't talk about "radical Jews" attacking Gaza, do you? You have forgotten what harm that kind of talk did in the decades leading up to the 1930s and 40s. The same kind of talk is causing ordinary Muslims, in their hundreds of millions, to feel that they constantly have their backs to the wall, for no other reason that they were were born into Islam and have to endure the kind of intolerance that your intemperate language personifies.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:55 PM

Of course it's silly to think he was serious. This is from Roy Harper's blog:
I contend that the black cloud of Islam fell upon millions of people exactly 900 years ago, and hasn't been raised again since.
You should read it for yourselves though. It's anti-ALL religion, but Islam was the target at the time and place he wrote the song.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,David E.
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:52 PM

"...and have to endure the kind of intolerance that your intemperate language personifies."

I think you are putting more thought in to this than the murderous people who commit the acts Steve. Which is fine, but I stand by my comment. But I'm old and set in my ways and wouldn't stand at an Unthanks concert either. Peace.

David E.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 12:05 AM

I couldn't find much discussion of Holly Near's song, I Ain't Afraid, on Mudcat. I think it makes an interesting comparison with the Roy Harper song. Here's an unusual recording of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80nqk2164tI Maybe a more standard recording: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsWAXvfN3eY&feature=related


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:19 AM

"I didn't want to make this about the Catholic Church."
Neither did I Peter, but I did wish to make the point that the very nature of all religions which operate on a basis of mystical blackmail (do as you're told or you will be eternally damned), makes them open to abuse - even here in the (enlightened?) west.
Until religion becomes entirely a matter of personal choice and not impressed onto our subconcious before we are old enough to think, and until religious organisations are excluded from weilding secular power and influence, this will remain the case.
There are those in any society who will hate, fear and wish to persecute anybody different from themselves. Garbage like Harper's song really doesn't help, no matter what his original intention might have been.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 07:56 AM

I'm not on Facebook, but from what I can find elsewhere on the web, Roy Harper has had nothing to do with with Folk Against Fascism.

Which, for a folk musician whose work has been appropriated by fascists, seems rather significant.

WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON, Roy?


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:20 AM

"..you must realise that smearing Islam as you do in your other remarks, as with that song, is exactly the kind of behaviour that prevents ordinary Muslims from living their lives without hindrance." Steve, not really, I see nothing that prevents Muslims living their lives without hindrance. I appreciate that a lot of Muslims feel put-upon at the moment, which is regrettable, and is a good reason why, those like me, should firmly distinguish between ordinary Muslims and Islam itself. However, since the Iranian revolution, 9/11, and for those of us in Britain, the Salmon Rushdie Affair, Islam has pushed itself to the fore of modern politics and demands a response from those of us who take an interest in politics.

What remarks should I make about The Satanic Verses? Should I stay silent when Salmon Rushdie has to go into hiding because the religious head of Iran has put a contract on his head? Should I stay silent about the couple who were stoned to death in Afghanistan last week for adultery? When I see another public execution in Iran carried out in the name of sharia law, should I again stay silent? When I go on a march against the war in Iraq, do I stay silent when I see the anti-war movement get taken over by Islamasists, with their own quite separate religious agenda?

Steve, these are not small matters, but lie right in the heart of the debate in modern politics. Of course I would like to separate my dislike of Islam from that of Muslims, but the invention of Islamophobia makes that increasingly difficult - Muslims themselves seem to be deliberately blurring the line, with politicians on the left supporting them -Galloway, Livingston, Benn, etc. I fully realise that the BNP and their fellow travellers are making political capital out of the wave of distrust against Islam, but that doesn't mean to say the rest of us have to remain silent, simply that we should be careful that the target remains Islam and not the scapegoating of Muslims.

After all, I cannot stand the Old Testament God, but that does not make me anti-Semitic, does it?


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,2CheersforTahir
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:20 AM

I forgot to put my guest name for the last one, for which I apologise.


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,PenguinEgg aka 2CheersforTahir
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:26 AM

The reason that I sign in as a guest, and it does seem to trouble people for some reason, is that I cannot post under my usual name of Penguin Egg, because the system will not allow me. I chose the name 2CheersforTahir because I thought it funny.

    As you can see, people don't take your name masquerade as funny at all - especially when the discussion is on a controversial subject. You may use one name, and only one name, when posting at Mudcat. If you have trouble logging in, contact me by e-mail.
    -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:46 AM

I for one am not afraid to applaud it. I am an ethnic minority in a foreign country myself (irish living in England) from a land raped pilaged, starved and murdered by British, and well used to terrorism. But while this country was highly racist me us when we first came here, we came at a time when our own politicians were starving us to. England gave us an millions like it a home. We built much of modern Brtitain and our musicians led the way in sharing our culture and enjoying the culture of Britain. The racism I encountered has largely gone, of course there will always be an ignorant minority who hate all foreigners and they simply need to breed out of existence. BUt where I do see real racism now from the Muslim community. What you saw on the Channel 4 docu the other night, not only goes on in other such schools, but in Mosques, and so called 'moderate' Muslim web sites day in and day out. There is no real reason for their terrorist activities except what I have to assume is a inbred lust to murder! I was bor a catholic and when I realised it's teachings were warped, fictional and abusive, I had no trouble in turning my back on it. Why then if Muslims really believe the Koran is telling them to stone women, hang and behead children,observe laws that allow rape, why do they WANT to follow what normal sane people can see is plain evil and sociopathic behaviour.

I am not a racist and will not accept being called one, I condem equally these right win so called 'English' league morons and I know many good Muslim people. But please show some respect to the country that gave you a home or were born in, because for all it's troubles, and yes we now have a filthy corrupt government, it is still one of the best in the world, and it needs more songs like this, or the cup final in May will once host vast public beheadings which is happening already in places like Iran


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Subject: RE: The Black Cloud of Islam by Roy Harper
From: Ringer
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 09:13 AM

"...and yes we now have a filthy corrupt government..."

Whaddya mean, NOW? The previous government was "filthy corrupt", and the one before that, and so ad infinitum.


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