Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Rain Dog
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 12:05 PM

Because of all the other people blocking your view?

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 07:58 PM

To Adrian and the Unthanks: thank you for the response, which I really appreciate. I've been away all day and haven't quite had chance to absorb your long post. The thread has attracted some negative comments about your playing, which is off-topic and not at all what I intended and is certainly something I do not agree with, and obviously that's something beyond my control, and I regret that. I'm not going to get back to the Phoenix box office on this occasion, as I would feel very awkward at the gig now, having bagged three seats for my slightly-disabled self and my two relatively able-bodied companions! I shall look out for future gigs and feel sure I will see you in full flight sometime in the future.

Cheers

Steve Shaw

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 12:13 PM

Bieber only playing all-seater gigs

"Saturday, February 19 2011, 15:24 GMT
By Paul Millar, TV Reporter
© WENN / Lia Toby


Justin Bieber will only play in all-seater venues for his upcoming tour, his bodyguard has insisted.

The 'Never Let You Go' singer, who will perform tracks from his latest album My World, will have extra protection from his hardcore fans.

"You've got a mob pushing," Kenneth Hamilton told Rolling Stone magazine, "and even if it's little girls, they're crawling on top of each other with their arms and elbows, and getting injured.".. "


well... errrrm... meanwhile in an alternative dimension universe somewhere near you..


"Screaming hysterical folk music fans invade local Arts Centre stage....
scores hospitalised, many serious injuries, unconfirmed fatalities.
Reports emerging of attempts to identify missing popular folk singers
from Dental records
and DNA on shreds of clothing and hair
found in possession of detained souveneir hunting folk fans.
Greiving families demand inquiry into inadequate security and prior removal of comfy seats"....

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Old Vermin
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 11:25 AM

Pleased to see that there has been communication between Steve Shaw and the Unthanks. Might I mention a less tractable problem on the same theme; seats that are too cramped?

Guildford has a couple of theatres which suffer from what I can only call short-pitched seats. Being blessed with long thigh-bones, the only way I can endure a couple of hours in most of their seats is to try to sit bolt upright and hope that cramp doesn't set in too viciously.

How general is this? It may of course cease to be a problem if larger venues struggle...

We now mostly go to places where chairs may be moved and where there's preferably a chance of sliding out to the bar or loo. Tends to be clubs or sessions rather than theatres. More intimate, and more, er, folky.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 01:12 PM

What a thoughtful and responsible response from Adrian McNally. The Unthanks are clearly a force for the better. I've seen the quartet - the full group must be an impressive sight in full flight! If the nearest date is standing this time, I hope that there will be a chance to sit at a date on the next tour. Happy to oblige if you are looking for baby sitters!

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,schlimmerkerl
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 03:11 PM

We saw "Cleopatra" at the Globe in London. It was mostly standing only. Thanks for an authentic experience, but we found it uncomfortable.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 03:26 PM

Anyway - I'd love to see them but the mid-week Manchester date makes it impossible, so that's why I won't be going. I do note, however, in the light of my flippant remark earlier in this thread that the booking form for the Manchester Cathedral gig (HERE) does specify standing...

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 12:10 PM

Howard I even remember going to see Steeleye Span in the Student Union main hall, and even then in the absence of chairs most of the audience preferred to sit on the floor (although a very few jigged around in the corner, and I think were considered a bit of a distraction).

Hmmm, Ths Steeleye gigs I went to were sometimes standing only, and many, even most, people danced. In fact, Maddy P would sometimes come into the audience and grab people to dance with herself. Including myself on one memorable occasion.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Howard Jones
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 02:28 PM

I wonder why the Manchester Cathedral gig is "standing"? Hardly a "yoof" venue, and I shouldn't have thought space is a problem.

The message that's emerging is that some audiences will be put off if it's standing only, and others if it's seated. I'm not going to criticise the Unthanks or anyone else for how they decide to run their gigs, but bands choosing one or the other need to understand that either way they're excluding a substantial proportion of their fanbase. Maybe they'll come back for the next gig, maybe not.

Rob, the Steeleye gig I referred to was "standing only" in that no seating was provided, but nevertheless most people chose to sit on the floor for most of the time. Still, it was the 70s, probably they were all stoned :)

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: puck
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 02:47 PM

Well done, and full marks to the Unthanks for spending a good forty mins to type such a long reply to explain and comment on this issue.
Personally I am one of the ones who love 'em. I wish they would sometimes take less time over singing a song or two from their repertiore, but I cannot fault their musicality and I have little or no problem understanding the lyrics they sing, or their choice of material.
Seems like a bit of a storm in a teacup to me. If you don't like 'em don't go and see 'em - if you do, but don't like the arrangements at the venue - don't go! If you want to see 'em anyway - try and make arrangements with the venue provider and if that fails then sue the venue providers if you are feeling 'victimised'!!!!
I think they are a breath of fresh air!
P

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 03:44 PM

So the concert is standing room only is it and you can't stand that long? Tough! That's life.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 04:40 PM

Paco
What a useful contribution...... you need to stay in more!

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 09:06 AM

One thing the promoter can guarantee is that somebody won't like the way the gig is organised.

I have never been involved in an Unthanks gig so don't know how their tour was organised but a typical tour is set up between the agent and a number of promoters who either own or hire the venues. The choice between flat floor and concert seating would be down to the promoter who is paying both the band and the venue. Its only the band's call if they are paying for the venues themselves.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Gail
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 09:23 AM

"full marks to the Unthanks for spending a good forty mins to type such a long reply to explain"

I must be the only one who thought "We do this because we are philanthropists" was, erm, interesting.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Old Vermin
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 06:52 PM

Since Gail mentioned it, I winced at the mention of a ten-piece band that cannot break even in those venues. One thing for say a ten-piece or so ceilidh band with day jobs to not even cover expenses on a gig, but musicians making a career of it really need to be doing better than about minimum wage.

I applaud the idealism, but there's a lot to be said for sustainability if the Unthanks are to go on entertaining current youth as they mature together.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 05:45 AM

For me, the 10-piece band was too much: couldn't hear much of the vocals, but that's maybe down to the way the sound was mixed.

Re standing gigs generally: I was at another one recently - 3 and a half hours of standing - a killer for an over-60, (albeit an overgrown teenager), but it was for a couple of my favourite bands so I did it, and I wasn't the only old 'un there by far. They probably could have accommodated the same number of people in this venue by having it half seated and half standing.
And (thread drift) what really irks me even more about standing only concerts is that it seems that all concert etiquette goes out the windows! Folk roaming about to and from bars and loos, talking (even shouting) loudly to each other during the music, etc, etc.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 09:20 AM

I think I met Adrian some years back and (I think) Rachel sang in our local pub in perhaps one of the bizarrer gigs that either was involved in. I think that Adrian did the sound for Last Nights Fun and we booked them to play at the Blacksmiths Arms in Farlington North Yorkshire about 6 years ago because the chap who ran the pub was a huge fan (he has since bought a set of pipes).

It was probably the tiniest gig that LNF played with a small, but appreciative, audience about two feet from the performers. We did not have a huge budget and so nobody got rich that night - 3 performers and a sound man (and I think manager) at a cost of £300 (if I remember) is not rampant profiteering. Afterwards we drank too much as I remember and sang and played with Denny etc till about 2 in the morning. I seem to remember that a young lady sang an unaccompanied song at some point in the evening and I'm guessing that was probably Rachel (though I may be wrong - I've been standing up for too many years and am approaching 60 to quickly).

So my experience is rather different. Brilliant happy evening that I still have photos of. Also started me tinkering with DADGAD a bit too of some of the people who are being slammed in this thread rather unnecessarily to my mind.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Nick
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 09:22 AM

Sorry the last post was I sans cookie

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Nick
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 09:27 AM

Actually thinking further, LNF came and played twice - so it might have been the second rather than first time. Same point anyway - everyone felt they had value for money rather than being ripped off.

Lay off people who are just trying to make a living. Hard enough.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: stallion
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 11:02 AM

you and me both Nick! Nowt wrong with earning coin and the one who pays the fiddler calls the tune.   anyone who can draw in a wider (younger!) audience should be especially appreciated. See you soon perhaps. p

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: breezy
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 01:11 PM

Hot of the lines


18.00 hrs

the auditorium seats 200

450 when standing

Steve Knightley is nearly sold out, 10 seats left

70 left for Jackie Oates

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 01:29 PM

How the blazes are you doing John?
Les

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Belinda
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 04:08 AM

Hello, I'm not going to comment on this thread but as an ex-Wintersetter, I would like to let people know what I've been doing since leaving that band and starting a new duo.

We are called O'Hooley & Tidow and we are touring in March and April if people fancy coming along to see is.

All venues are seated.

Thanks,

Belinda O'Hooley
www.ohooleyandtidow.com

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 05:21 PM

I always liked the originals best- Hank Williams rather than Boxcar Willie so why not listen to the source singers ripped off by these charlatans- originals whether the tradition or Ray Davies. I'm all for interpretation, but not destruction of perfectly good material- can hardly believe you younger folk have all been taken in by this dreary unoriginal crap.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 05:58 PM

One of the disadvantages of this forum is that people can make offensive comments and not have the courage to reveal their identity as has the poster above. You may think it is dreary and unoriginal - fair enough though I would disagree - but to call the Unthanks music 'crap' is deeply offensive - by what standards are you judging?? What qualifies you to suggest that - you may not like it - I am not keen on a number of artists and genres of music but would never call it crap. I am not one of the 'younger folk' of which you refer but at 53 I believe that this band and many others are taking the music I love forward and there has probably never been a better time for lovers of folk music thanks to the huge numbers of young people who are breathing new life into the tradition!

Joe Grint

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 06:14 PM

As the instigator of this thread I should like to say that I wish to echo Joe's comments fully and enthusiastically.

Steve (always the real me)

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,alex s no cookie
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:31 PM

They are just not very good. Floor singers, ok. paid guests - no chance. Just because you are told they are fantastic doesn't mean they are. Pleasantish but unremarkable. And can't dance.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 08:48 PM

Don't agree. That's life.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: severed-head
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:18 AM

I agree entirely with Alex s on this one. There are at least a dozen floor singers in my local clubs who are better performers. Just my opinion of course.
Garry

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Young Buchan
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:41 AM

Thank you for a genuinely useful thread. In future when people try to persuade me to 'be broad minded' and go to see some flavour of the month, vaguely folk related, group that I know I will hate, instead of an act performing traditional music in an authentic traditional style, rather than admit my prejudice, I can now say: "Sorry. Daren't risk it in case it turns out to be no-seating. Since my foot operation I can't stand that long. And my moshing is severley restricted.'

If Sheila Stewart does a comeback, I'll stand - on one leg if necessary. But not for the Unthanks.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,giovanni
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:49 AM

Old Vermin said
"Might I mention a less tractable problem on the same theme; seats that are too cramped?".

Couldn't agree more! I hate to find the seat I've paid good money for is suitable for nobody bigger than a 6 year old. So these days I'm at pains to make sure my seat will be comfortable, particularly for legroom.

My two big gigs last year were Bob Dylan and Mark Knopfler at the Mediolanum Milan, then Carmen at Verona. In both cases the seats were thoroughly hateful - albeit the best available and at a huge price.

Fortunately Dylan's performance was good enough to put up with the discomfort. But after two acts of Carmen I had to find a more comfortable seat, which I did, in one of the bars out in the square. The entertainment was better too.

g

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 06:04 AM

I think that all the posts in this thread dissing the Unthanks are childish. It was never intended to be "let's knock the Unthanks" thread. It was hardly likely to be, was it, when you consider that I had started out wanting to travel 55 miles to their gig. It's about having to stand up at the gig, no more than that. Start your own threads on the merits or otherwise of the band if you really want to discuss it.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 05:16 PM

Rather than start your own thread why not be constructive and start your own band or session & don't travel 55 miles to see anyone- it's barmy at £6.50 a gallon- as daft as paying £50 for a football match!

Can I add 'pretentious' as a further qualifier to my description of
the Unthanks as 'crap' a word I stand by.... ie the waste product left after a good dose of either food or exposure without comprehension of the wonderful repertoire of traditional music left by such originals as Ewan MacColl or A L Lloyd or Peter Kennedy- that it should come to such as the Unthanks- if they were alive today they'd be turning in their graves....
am all for kids playing the music we love but have you heard what they play???

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 05:59 PM

Would I be correct in thinking you don't like Bellowhead, Jim Moray, Karine Polwart, Seth Lakeman, Chumbawamba or anyone else who is creating excellent music but who are under a certain age?

The people of whom you speak did leave a great legacy but the world has moved on and fortunately so has the music.

I love both - and to be honest most of the younger musicians seem to me to be as, if not more, talented than some of the earlier generations

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 06:35 PM

Sorry Chumbawamba should be in the past tense sadly!

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:13 PM

I shouldn't really respond to trolls, I know that, but I do actually have my own band and my own session. In fact, as I type this, I've been back from our session, which we hold once a week, for half an hour. I live in a very remote area and, if I want to see a particular band, I have to travel. I can usually combine other missions in the town I'm travelling to on the same day. Try not to be such a bloody twit, oh Guest.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Rockhen
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 09:15 PM

I have not managed to read all the posts on this thread but I would like to say that when the Unthanks came to Caistor, we thoroughly enjoyed providing the support for the evening and found the band and all of those involved with them, very pleasant and not just 'in it for the money'.
If it wasn't for the organisers of live music events, there would be no gigs/concerts etc and each venue and organiser has to consider many factors to make the event a success. Sometimes places and people get it wrong but I believe it is much better to share your praise or criticism directly with those responsible. It helps improve and maintain quality and is also encouraging to get praise if an event is well-organised. Constructive criticism and praise where it is due. Keep music live and recognise hard work when it happens.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 04:29 AM

I wouldn't see them at a sit down venue, I find them extremely boring if it's all the same to you.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 06:56 AM

I don't care whether you find them boring. It simply is not the point of the thread.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 07:09 AM

I can see your frustration, Steve. You'd probably have got a more focussed and on-topic discussion if you'd just said something like "a folk act". The moment a name - any name - comes up on Mudcat, all the YEA-ers and NAY-ers appear out of the woodwork and muddy the waters.

(Omigod, I said MUDDY the WATERS!)

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 08:36 AM

At least no-one could accuse *you* of BLIND REVERENDS Will!

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 12:01 PM

Apologies for my contribution in diverting the thread Steve - just hate the word 'crap' being used about any artist.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 12:07 PM

However "crap" one thinks The Unthanks or someone are, coming on to a forum and commenting such whilst an anonymous guest makes you the biggest crap of all.

At least make up a vague but consistent pseudonym and stick to it, he adds, covering his tracks...

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 12:25 PM

:-)

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Acorn4
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 03:34 PM

A couple of years ago we were booked for a festival at a country park - the marquees were sensibly spaced out to allow for them not to interfere with each other.

We got to our marquee where all the PA was set up ready, but not a chair in sight - I normally sit down to play the guitar but not only not a chair in the venue but not in any of the others - luckily one of the other acts had bought a folding stool with the which we borrowed; always carry a stool just in case these days. Live and learn.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 03:46 AM

"if I want to see a particular band, I have to travel"

Totally agree with you. Saying "don't travel" to anyone who wants to see acts but lives in rural areas is such a silly thing to say. Our club brings acts to the town but we are restricted to about 4 per year. Apart from that only very occasionally does anyone choose to play here during their tours. We normally have to travel to see any other acts which is anything from 40 to 80 miles round trips. However for the more major names it is often either Edinburgh, Glasgow or Newcastle. So it is between 100 and about 180 miles round trips to venues. Like you we'd tend to tie it in with other things and also fill the car to help with travel costs.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 10:23 AM

We do not go to gigs without seating and disabled access. Quite how promoters and their artists expect folks aged our side of 60 to stand for 3 hours is beyond me. Perhaps is is ageism plain and simple.

Still, most of those gigs are available for download at some time!!!!!

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 01:00 PM

I'm full of admiration for the this Adrian. He gave a very full and sympathetic explanation of why the situation arose those years back. Don't know if it's changed at all since, but hope it's unproved, just for all the oldies & disabled etc.
Oh yes, my admiration is also because of the way he's taken a couple of quite ordinary singers, and conned people that this is folk music. They have the most inane & boring delivery I've ever heard, (zzzzzzzz....) and although their material is good, (based on the classic Northumbrian repertoire) my admiration is for how they have all made money out of such crap!

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 02:45 PM

I wouldn't touch the unthanks with a shitty stick

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 03:38 PM

The two anonymous attacks above are in my opinion very unpleasant.