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Lyr Req: Darkies' Sunday School

LonLigon 07 Sep 99 - 11:37 PM
dick greenhaus 08 Sep 99 - 12:06 AM
MMario 08 Sep 99 - 10:02 AM
Joe Offer 08 Sep 99 - 06:02 PM
MMario 09 Sep 99 - 08:37 AM
Barbara 09 Sep 99 - 02:26 PM
MMario 09 Sep 99 - 02:44 PM
paddymac 09 Sep 99 - 02:48 PM
Joe Offer 09 Sep 99 - 04:12 PM
MMario 09 Sep 99 - 04:33 PM
Joe Offer 09 Sep 99 - 04:51 PM
MMario 09 Sep 99 - 05:02 PM
MMario 09 Sep 99 - 05:05 PM
Joe Offer 09 Sep 99 - 05:11 PM
MMario 09 Sep 99 - 05:15 PM
Barbara 09 Sep 99 - 05:29 PM
Big Mick 09 Sep 99 - 05:29 PM
MMario 09 Sep 99 - 05:41 PM
dick greenhaus 10 Sep 99 - 12:06 AM
Joe Offer 10 Sep 99 - 12:15 AM
dick greenhaus 10 Sep 99 - 01:57 PM
Rick Fielding 10 Sep 99 - 11:24 PM
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Subject: The bible song
From: LonLigon
Date: 07 Sep 99 - 11:37 PM

I am looking for the words to an old song about the bible it starts: Adam was the first man, Eve was his spouse got caught stealing fruit and started keeping house Everything was peaceful and peaceful it remained Til they had a little baby boy and went to raising Cain

There were a lot of other versus. I can't find it anywhere I've looked. This old folk song was sung by my father over 50 years ago. Send my any information you can. Thanks


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 12:06 AM

Hi- Try a search on [Sunday School] in the DigiTrad Lyrics Search box.


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: MMario
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 10:02 AM

Does anyone have the tune for "Sunday School" as posted in the DT?

A friend would dearly love to use it....

MMario


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Subject: Tune ADD: Darkie's Sunday School
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 06:02 PM

I know Dick says we have to be open-minded about these things, but posting songs like this one and the Chinaman songs and the Horst Wessel Lied always puts me in a moral crisis. I don't like to be mired in Political Correctness, but I hate racism with a passion. Therefore, allow me to attach a curse to this tune:
If anyone should use this song for hateful or racist purposes, may he or she remain impotent and/or frigid for the rest of his or her days.
(the Joe Offer All-Purpose Curse)
There! That should take care of it.
-Joe Offer-

MIDI file: DARKIE~1.MID

Timebase: 192

Name: Darkies' Sunday School
Text: By (unknown)
TimeSig: 6/8 24 8
Start
0000 1 55 110 0256 0 55 000 0032 1 60 110 0256 0 60 000 0032 1 60 110 0256 0 60 000 0032 1 60 110 0256 0 60 000 0032 1 59 110 0160 0 59 000 0032 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 62 110 0528 0 62 000 0048 1 55 110 0160 0 55 000 0032 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 62 110 0256 0 62 000 0032 1 60 110 0160 0 60 000 0032 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 64 110 0528 0 64 000 0048 1 60 110 0160 0 60 000 0032 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 65 110 0094 0 65 000 0002 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 65 110 0094 0 65 000 0002 1 57 110 0256 0 57 000 0032 1 57 110 0160 0 57 000 0032 1 57 110 0094 0 57 000 0002 1 55 110 0160 0 55 000 0032 1 55 110 0094 0 55 000 0002 1 59 110 0160 0 59 000 0032 1 59 110 0094 0 59 000 0002 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 65 110 0094 0 65 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 60 110 0094 0 60 000 0002 1 60 110 0160 0 60 000 0032 1 60 110 0094 0 60 000 0002 1 60 110 0528 0 60 000
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it, go to our links (click here) page.

ABC format:

X:1
T:Darkies' Sunday School
M:6/8
Q:1/4=120
K:C
G,3C3|C3C3|B,2DD2D|D6|G,2DD2D|D2DD3|C2EE2E|
E6|C2EE2E|E2EE2E|F2FF2F|A,3A,2A,|G,2G,B,2B,|
D2DG2F|E2CC2C|C11/2||


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: MMario
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 08:37 AM

Joe - the thought never crossed my mind! The friends who want to use it do an act as Nuns - and the words as posted are fantastic for their routine....


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: Barbara
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 02:26 PM

Oh, and THAT'S going to reassure Joe, MMario???


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: MMario
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 02:44 PM

well - regardless of prior associations, the words as posted do not refer in any way to any ethnic or religious group, and are not done in a dialect. Granted, their act is a caricature of Catholic nuns, but they have been seen by many nuns who have loved their show.


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: paddymac
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 02:48 PM

Amen Joe! But keep in mind that the common US view of racism as essentially related to skin color is far too narrow. A more encompassing definition would lean towards irrational hatred based simply on a perception of difference: racial, ethnic/cultural, nationality, religious, political, etc., etc. Yes, I know there can be great overlap within and among these categories, but the core picture is there.


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Subject: Prejudice
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 04:12 PM

Well, Paddymac, I think the US view of racism is quite broad. We have a long, fine tradition of disliking anybody who's a hair different from ourselves. We've certainly had a healthy dose of antisemitism lately, and I've noticed a resurgence of anti-Catholic sentiments, including a full-page ad in USA Today last month that condemned Catholics and others for following the papist tradition of going to church on Sunday. As an employee of the Federal government from 1970-96, I sometimes found myself to be a target of hatred and potential, just because of where I worked.

We Americans can think up all sorts of prejudices, and we can come up with all sorts of "evidence" to defend the righteousness of our prejudice. It has become commonplace in the U.S. to stereotype Catholic priests as sexual predators, and I'm sure there are a number of people right here who believe that unfair stereotype to be true.
Same with nuns - the old nun stories are kind of fun, but they need to be presented gently. The Broadway show Nunsense and its sequels do this quite well, as does Michael Smiths's song "Sister Clarissa." Too often, though, nuns have been represented as horrible, hateful creatures - to the point where many people have come to believe this representation is true. I know from personal experience that the vast majority of priests and nuns are extraordinary people who are dedicated to the service of all humanity.

MMario, the words of DARKIES' SUNDAY SCHOOL as posted in the database, are racially offensive. If you sing them without an appropriate disclaimer or explanation, you could well get yourself in a lot of hot water.

There's a thin line with all this stuff, and it has to be handled with a lot of sensitivity. Even things that are presented gently can easily be taken the wrong way, and can serve to reinforce prejudices people already have.

On the other hand, I'd like to take a baseball bat and bop a few people on the head for taking offense at the least little mention of something that might somehow be construed as prejudice. One of my jobs is to investigate complaints of discrimination - I've found lots of complaining, but very little discrimination.

If we could all resolve to avoid both causing offense and taking offense, we'd all be happier. So, MMario, my curse stands. Be careful. You might not like the results. (grin).

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: MMario
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 04:33 PM

yes - but joe- I asked re: SUNDAY SCHOOL - which is the pc version....

I was not even aware the the older text was in the DT.

And I just looked at it, and it is indeed offensive.


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Subject: Sunday School
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 04:51 PM

OK, MMario, I get the distinction - click here for the version MMario is talking about.
I was reading last week that "Shortnin' Bread" was racially offensive. I never thought of it that way - it was just a cute kids' song to me, that I learned 50 years ago as, "Two little children, lyin' in bed, one of them sick and the other 'most dead..." Well, I found out this week that the original version was "Two little darkies, lyin' in bed..." There two songs are examples of where changes in lyrics are perfectly appropriate. They're good, fun songs. They probably weren't intended to be racist in the first place, but changes in our culture have made them that way and a few little changes can fix 'em so they aren't offensive. Same with a number of Stephen Foster songs.
Now, if I could only figure out what to do with Edward Lear's "Owl and the Pussycat." It's a great poem, but nowadays a guy can't get up in front of a bunch of kids and say,
Oh Pussy, oh Pussy, oh Pussy, my love,
What a wonderful pussy you are.
-Joe offer-


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: MMario
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 05:02 PM

Sorry. To expand as my last post was rather terse - - seems we have been looking at two different sets of lyrics...and you have to admit that the lyrics as posted for "Sunday School" are very different then the ones posted for "D***s Sunday School". They have been cleaned up a LOT...and when I converted the tune to a score, I also removed the older title. which I will however convey to them so they know about the possibility.

and my friends who do the bit as "Sisters" - are quite careful about how far they take their stuff...

I have no doubts that they will NEVER use the tune or the lyrics in what any halfway-normal person of any group would consider an offensive manner, nor would I...so hopefully I am safe from the curse.

Joe - I do not disagree with your views on this at all. I WILL plead that *sometimes* (not very often) ignorance IS an excuse.


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: MMario
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 05:05 PM

joe..."kitty" scans


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 05:11 PM

I'll try, Kitty, MMario. I'm afraid that if I use the original version of "Owl and the Kittycat," that I, too, could fall victim to the curse. On second thought, if I used "Owl and the Kittycat," I might be accused of having an overdose of political correctness, which is worse that being insensitive. You can't win, MMario. Might as well give in and accept the curse....
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: MMario
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 05:15 PM

The chorus of "Shortnin' Bread" has also been held up as racially derogatory, and furthermore as demeaning to women in general and housewives in particular, above and beyond the racial slur. But at THAT point I agree with Joe's comments re: the baseball bat a few messages back.


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: Barbara
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 05:29 PM

You know, guys, just to thinken the soup here, I always hated the verse of Sunday school that said:
"For forty nights and days
They sailed the little pond
They kicked out the lioness
Because she was a blond

Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 05:29 PM

I told this story somewhere else, but it bears repeating. I used to go out with a lovely girl when I was a young man. Her father made her stop seeing me. I went to him, explained that I thought the world of his daughter, treated her with respect and dignity and that I was not such a bad person. He responded by telling me that he had two reasons for making her stop dating me. 1) I was Irish. 2) I was Catholic. We continued to see each other on the sly, but it was too difficult and we eventually drifted apart. This was not an isolated incident. I can remember other occasions growing up where I ran into this type of discrimination.

Mick


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: MMario
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 05:41 PM

People will pick on the tiniest things...in my Cape Cod home town my family had three strikes against them in most peoples eyes...
1) we were NORTHERN Italian *gasp* (all the other Italians in town were Neopolitan or Sicilian)

2) my parents were a "mixed marriage" - catholic and protestant

3) My mother was a "newcomer" - (still is after 55 years)

and then of course they had the bad taste to use natal facilities that were "off cape", preventing their children from EVER being "true" Cape Codders.

if there aren't divisions, seems some people will make them. it would be silly if it weren't so sad.

I'll shut up now.

MMario


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 12:06 AM

I guess we should also consider whether religious songs offend athiests...

Look folks; we just collect them. Do what you will with them.


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 12:15 AM

Well, Dick, collecting the songs is just fine, so you don't need to worry. However, those who use the songs for hateful purposes will be subject to the Joe Offer all-Purpose Curse, as stated above.
Equitable solution, dontchathink? (grin)
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 01:57 PM

Big Mick- I recall the plight of a fine guitarist, Dick Rosmini (since deceased), who on one day lost his girl because he wasn't Jewish and lost his job (with a calypso band) because he wasn't black. Sometimes you can't win for losing.


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Subject: RE: The bible song
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 11:24 PM

A few years ago I played with an Irish Bar Band. They had just lost 2 of their Irish brethren and needed musicians fast! The make-up then was One actual Dubliner, one Glaswegian, and one Canadian (me). The band leader knew that I had done some radio voice-overs in dialect, and asked me to affect an Irish accent whenever I spoke on stage. Tricky to do, but I tried. One night on a gig the manager of the club took me to task for not being Irish, and I panicked. In those days the clubs knew that Irish (Clancy style) bands meant full houses. I sort of laughed for about two seconds while trying to think of something to say and then I told him I'd been living in New York for so long that I'd kind of lost my accent! He said "what county are you from?" Oops, couldn't think of one. The next day I got replaced. Not by an Irishman.. but another Glaswegian!

Rick


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