John (Leon) Guthrie Song

Subject: Jack (Leon) Guthrie Song
From: Bert C.
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 12:07 PM

I have a lyric sheet for "Oklahoma Hills" that attributes the song to a Jack Guthrie. Apparently, he was also known as Leon. Mudcat attributes the song to Jack and Woody Guthrie. Can anyone tell me the relationship between Jack (or Leon) and Woody and whether Woody actually had any part in the creation of this song?

Subject: RE: John (Leon) Guthrie Song
From: Dale Rose
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 12:14 PM

Oh, sorry I gotta leave Mudcat for now. (I got other things to do, believe it or not) I got the whole story somewhere, and will post it later. I'm sure there are others here who know it, too, so I may not be next to reply. But yes, Woody and Jack were related ~~ cousins, their fathers were brothers.

Subject: RE: John (Leon) Guthrie Song
From: Dale Rose
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 01:36 PM

Leon Jerry Guthrie was born November 13, 1915 in Olive, Oklahoma. He was always Leon to his family, Oke (pronounced Oak) to his friends, but took the name Jack when he made his first recordings on October 16, 1944. The very first song he cut was Oklahoma Hills. Now I've heard a couple of different stories as to how he came into possession of the song. One version goes that he wanted the song, so Woody said he could have it. In fact, Woody often stated publicly, that anyone could have any song he wrote. In the other version, in about 1937, Woody wrote the rough draft of what was to become Oklahoma Hills. Jack took the song from a fake book that Woody had made, modified it, and smoothed it into the version we are familiar with today. They performed together frequently in these early years, so I would think it would be highly unlikely that Woody was unaware that Jack had done this, and was performing the song on a regular basis. In any case, it was not until after the song became a hit in 1945 that Woody claimed ownership. The dispute was resolved by attributing the song to both of them. As to the question of to who did what to the song, I'm not sure that has ever been made clear. Folk process in operation, I guess.

Jack Guthrie recorded only a small handful of wonderful songs, (available on Bear Family CD 15580) . He had contracted tuberculosis in the Army, and was too obsessed with the music business to take care of himself. He died on January 15, 1948, aged 32.

Information above from my own memory, various readings, and most specifically from the notes to the Bear Family CD by Guy Logsdon.

If you haven't heard Oklahoma Hills by Jack Guthrie, then you really haven't heard it. I first heard it on the jukebox in my Dad's tavern in 1945. I am sure that I would have pestered him constantly for nickels to play the song, but as it was very popular at the time, the patrons of the tavern kept me from provoking my father too much! It was and is one of my all time favorite songs.

Subject: RE: Jack (Leon) Guthrie Song
From: Bert C.
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 02:36 PM

Wow, what a wealth of knowledge. Thanks so much, Dale.

The Bucks County Folk Song Society (my favorite group of folks) is doing the songs of the century next month, and I've been assigned to come up with a number from the forties. This struck me as a real promising candidate.

It always enhances a song if you can present the story behind it, and this is a fine story if ever I heard one. However, if anyone else has some additional info, I'd love to hear it.

Bert C.

Subject: RE: John (Leon) Guthrie Song
From: Dale Rose
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 03:43 PM

Bert, I'm not sure that everyone here would like to see it, but if you'd be interested, I'll send you a scan of the material, though it is likely that I won't get to it before the weekend, as it will encompass quite a few scans and procedures that are almost beyond me to get it all put together. Let me know via private message with your Email address, and I will see what I can do. I can also send you a realaudio of Jack's version, if your Email account can handle a message of somewhere near 1000 KB.

Subject: RE: John (Leon) Guthrie Song
From: Frank Hamilton
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 06:16 PM

Who was the publisher on the song? Was it Ludlow Music?

Frank

Subject: RE: Jack (Leon) Guthrie Song
From: Bert C
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 08:39 PM

According to my book, the rights are currently assigned to Unichappell Music (Rightsong Music, Publisher) and to Capitol Songs, Inc.