BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 01:39 PM

"I heard several songs at your folkclub that wouldn't have passed the 1954 definition of a folksong."

I don't do any that would! :-)
(Well, a couple maybe).

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 12:02 PM

You're corrupt anyway. I heard several songs at your folkclub that wouldn't have passed the 1954 definition of a folksong.


I didn't know you regarded youself as pure, Les.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 04:36 AM

LOL! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 04:22 AM

Well 1.6 million would as well.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 04:17 AM

40 million could corrupt me.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 10:58 PM

Oh.

It's strange, I find it difficult to get worked up about this sort of thing. Stockbrokers, traders, hedge-fund-bosses, stock-market-wheeler-dealers, call them what you will, are all just professional gamblers with a thin veneer of decency, without the eye-shades and smoky back-rooms, but with the same attitude towards cheating - it's fine if you don't get caught. I'm never surprised at the depths to which their deceitfulness and immorality will sink.

Money corrupts. The larger the amounts, the greater the extent to which the corruptible are corrupted.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 05:42 PM

I learn much from my participation in Mudcat discussions from someof the other regular posters.

I have learnt that apparently it is ok when a discussion is ongoing that one can find matters partly relevant to the thread and post them in the thread, especially if there is some sort of link with possible naughty doings.


Former billionaire faces insider trading trial

QUOTE
One of the biggest insider trading court cases has begun in New York, with a one-time billionaire accused of fraud and facing 20 years in jail.

Raj Rajaratnam was a once a powerful hedge-fund boss who is accused of making more than $50 million through insider trading.

The 53-year-old Sri Lankan-born money manager is alleged to have obtained confidential information leaked by corporate insiders.

Rajaratnam says he is innocent and that investment advisers regularly speak to traders as part of their research.
UNQUOTE

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 11:45 AM

I think David Cameron is the very man I'd choose to come to grips with this plop in the reservoir. I'm sure he'd make a great fist of it.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 11:34 AM

Well that banker earns 40 million a year excluding his bonus. That is crazily unbelievable.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 06:03 AM

Sounds fair to me.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 05:59 AM

Ver elegantly put Al. :-)

I agree BWM. You can't do much when a contract is in place. However, somebody should have got to grips with this issue long ago.

Maybe, nobody should earn more than the Prime Minister.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 05:00 AM

And I see on TV this morning that the boss of Barclays is getting £6m. Makes the RBS guy look like a complete failure, and a pauper to boot. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 04:58 AM

The point I've been trying to make is that he has a contract, and contracts are documents enforcable in law. They should be honoured, the law demands it. BUT far more questionable is the fact that he had the contract in the first place, and that's where everyone should be directing their venom - not at the fortunate guy who is the beneficiary of this arrangement, but rather at the structure and control systems (or maybe lack of control) that permitted such a contract to exist in the first place.

Horse first, then cart.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 03:20 AM

That's right, they reckon he's got a contract, so it should be honoured. Whereas the rest of are saying - supposing he had a contract saying he could piss in the water supply - should that be honoured?

Getting an immoral amount of money from people who can't really afford it, and who have come bleating to the tax payer about being in debt, is more environmentally unfriendly than a piss (or a plop even) in the reservoir.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 02:06 AM

Backwoodsman's post of 06 March 11 @ 02:05 AM seems to say exactly what Teribus stated in his very first post to this thread 25 February @ 01:58 AM

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:19 AM

I wouldn't reject invisibility status in a ladies changing room, but it wouldn't make it right.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 04:47 AM

And counting this one, that's four posts when I said I would only make one!
Buggerbuggerbuggerbugger!

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 04:46 AM

'Twas ever thus and, alas, 'twill ever be, I fear.

One question though - if you or I were in a position to command such bonuses, would we refuse them? I think not.

I agree it doesn't seem fair, but he presumably has it written into his contract. If that's the case, he's entitled to take the money. Hand on heart - I would, and I bet you would too, Art.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: GUEST,Arthur_itus
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 03:55 PM

Well all, I can say, is that it's very difficult to swallow such fat twat payments, when friends around me (who you know well Backwoodsman) are struggling to make ends meet. One through serious illness and the other because of losing their job, with no forseeable prospect of getting work. Both in the music/folk world.
I phoned one of these people today about the John Conolly, Bill Whaley and Dave Fletcher concert at Faldingworth (this person has never missed an event, apart from unforseeable other arrangements). I asked if that person was coming along (they normally book 4 tickets). The person said that they had just lost their job and couldn't afford to go anywhere and was very worried about the future.
This person puts a lot into the Lincolnshire tradition.
Even though my family are struggling, I couldn't help feeling very sorry for this friend.

So basically fat twat money grabbing arseholes can go screw themselves.

The sh*t is hitting the bottom of the can and it is about to explode, whilst the fat twats soak in their wealth.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 03:00 PM

"There is one more relevant fact, though - should be continue to make those sorts of contracts and if not what sort of contracts can we make that attract the skills we need but are better for the country."

That's a whole 'nuther can o' worms, and greater brains than mine will have to apply themselves to it.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 03:12 AM

Teribus wrote "DMcG - ... Now tell me where in that article "HE" referred rto (etc)

You know perfectly well I did not claim that he did. You seem very fond of berating people based on things they have not said; an unfortunate habit that is worth getting out of. Doing so allows you to avoid dealing with what people actually do say, so you don't have to deal with comments of someone who knows better than you or I. Perhaps you would like to reflect on the final paragraph from the Governor above?

Backwoodman: I *almost* completely agree with you - that's why I say they are entitled to the payments. There is one more relevant fact, though - should be continue to make those sorts of contracts and if not what sort of contracts can we make that attract the skills we need but are better for the country.

Short of another relevant announcement from imf/chancellor/govenor/etc I will once more return to the sidelides.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 02:05 AM

My one and only contribution to yet another 'UK' thread that looks as though it's going down the toilet, the same as the 'Muslim Prejudice' thread and many others.

Whether the boss of RBS is fat, or a twat, or both, is completely irrelevant in the context of his bonus. Whether the banks are creaming it off while the taxpayer is squeezed until the pips squeak is irrelevant in the context of his bonus.

The only things that are relevant to his bonus are his contract and his performance in terms of that contract.

If he has a contract which entitles him to certain bonus-levels dependent on reaching performance-markers set out by that contract, then he has a legal and, yes, a moral entitlement to his bonus.

And, in the entire time I've been entitled to vote, I have never voted Conservative, nor will I - ever.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 01:17 AM

Bloody hilarious, I am a "fascist capitalist", a "schizophrenic" and "the Anti-Christ" all rolled into one. And this name calling is what you call debating skill. The worst I accused you of was being a "socialist".

Idiotic Statement No.1:
"The Real World of Finance and Banking does not run on "common sense and logic", but runs how Accountants deem it must"

Nothing relies more on "common sense and logic than profit and loss.

Idiotic Statement No.2:
"By your claims of "common sense and logic", if a bad deal is done by a bank loaning money, then the bank should take that loss (and not get a tax write off) because they took the gamble that the overall deal would work"

What tax any concern pays is based solely on the actual net profit made. Your contention that tax should be paid on profits that might have been made is ludicrous.

Idiotic Statement No.3:
"or do you mean that loans should be given to all who ask, without checking to see if their claims that the loan can be repaid are valid?"

That was exactly what Bill Clinton told mortgage brokers "Freddy Mac" and "Fanny Mae" to do over in the USA and when those bad loan risks failed to repay that is what caused the sub-prime crash, so no I most certainly do not subscribe to that view.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 07:39 PM

"Difficult for a socialist"

If you can so easily call me a 'socialist' merely based on my words without knowing me personally and what I have done in my life, but are merely prattling your biased stereotypes, then why can you not also reasonably be called by others based on your words a 'fascist capitalist', or even, based on my personal hard life experiences at the hands of other people, a 'schizophrenic'? Since you display that you can not understand the basics of 'debating', the "playing of Devil's Advocate" to really understand those with whom you debate, but just label others based on what the buttons that are pushed in your mind respond to, you can only respond with blind stereotypes. And of course, you believe you are never wrong, and thus don't have to ever admit being so. :-)

If you dislike socialists so ardently, then attack all the 'True Christians' who follow what He said about caring for others, and loving them as strongly as one loves one own self, and SHARING WHAT THEY OWN WITH OTHERS - socialist behaviour!!! ... So now you are 'The Anti-Christ'?, since you cannot be a 'True Christian' and display 'socialist thinking or behaviour'. Quote "If someone has done what they have said that they will do and they have a bonus deal then that deal should be honoured - that is a contract and that is what has to be honoured period - no bloody debate, no discussion"Unquote - A contract with Jesus to care for others (whether you are a banker or not) is still "a contract and that is what has to be honoured period - no bloody debate, no discussion" ... It is your displayed ardent hate of 'Socialists', and such attitudes by those who claimed to be 'True Christians', that was strongly motivational in my deciding to lose interest in all hypocritical religious dogma.


"I have no INSIDE knowledge"

But you claim to know how banking works from the inside much better than anyone else here because of your personal experience on the inside. The Real World of Finance and Banking does not run on "common sense and logic", but runs how Accountants deem it must - but you now seem to want to deny that. By your claims of "common sense and logic", if a bad deal is done by a bank loaning money, then the bank should take that loss (and not get a tax write off) because they took the gamble that the overall deal would work - or do you mean that loans should be given to all who ask, without checking to see if their claims that the loan can be repaid are valid? Oh no, you don't, you want houses seized from mortagees in financial distress as good business practice...

"unlike you I only apply common sense and logic"

YOUR OPINION of "common sense and logic" is just that, your opinion. You deny that anyone else but you can have "common sense and logic" - sadly I got that nonsense from my schizophrenic manager for years, until he finally came out and claimed that it was only common sense and logic that I must have faked the highly expensive monitored IQ test to get a score higher that I really was, as he knew, (just as you know that I am a socialist!) that I could not be that bright! That's when they led Him away ...

"and do not just transpose events to suit my arguments as you have done in this case"

The banking problems are world wide - you deny this by hiding behind delusional excessively narrow definitions to suit your arguments.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:14 PM

Ah Foolestroupe so nothing to do with the UK Banking system at all then - just as I suspected.

Unfinished houses, so a property speculator got burned not any family.

A building that did not comply with palnning regulations

Unwanted homes in the Irish Republic

"Banks ARE going to demolish houses they have 'seized' and some not even finished... and this is also happening in the USA...But NOT IN THE UK unlike you, I do not have inside knowledge of UK banks, so if they are hiding it, and the journalists have not yet had it leaked to them I can't find out: I would expect you from your claims of your great experience in banking, and your contacts, to be the one to know, and by playing cute and not informing us, but denying it, you are pedantically right, not in the UK, so you win again!. You are NEVER wrong Sir!

I have no INSIDE knowledge Foolstroupe, unlike you I only apply common sense and logic and do not just transpose events to suit my arguments as you have done in this case. You are also guilty of even perpetuating the myth after having been caught out. If you are going to state something make absolutely certain that that ascertion is based on fact NOT FICTION - Difficult for a socialist I know but please do try - As far as I am concerned I have worked far, far too long in the the oil & gas industry for anybody to try pissing on my back and then try to tell that it is raining.

DMcG - I read the article by King and I thought that it was a very good article and he had many good points on the evils of our banking system and the facets of it that needed changing. Now tell me where in that article "HE" referred to "fat twat bankers", or to "fat twat businessmen" - It is those generalisations so beloved of the trendy-left and socialists in general that I object to. If someone has done what they have said that they will do and they have a bonus deal then that deal should be honoured - that is a contract and that is what has to be honoured period - no bloody debate, no discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 04:37 PM

the message that I was fessin' up to, has disappeared.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 03:54 PM

I don't want to return to the debate as such, but there was an interview published in The Telegraph today with the Governor of the Bank of England that is so relevant it would be shame if you missed it so I've cut and pated it below:

"n the interview, the Bank Governor says: "We allowed a [banking] system to build up which contained the seeds of its own destruction.

"We've not yet solved the 'too big to fail' or, as I prefer to call it, the 'too important to fail' problem.

"The concept of being too important to fail should have no place in a market economy."

When asked whether there could be a repeat of the financial crisis, Mr King says: "Yes. The problem is still there. The search for yield goes on. Imbalances are beginning to grow again."

Mr King, who rarely gives interviews, suggests that the culture of short-term profits and bonuses within the banks may ultimately be responsible for the problems"

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 02:32 PM

that was me sorry!

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 01:53 PM

Poster appears to be Alan Whittle
Strangely enough about ten minutes after seeing your latest message teribus, I got an e-mail from the Musicians Union saying they had organised a series of conferences with HSBC to explain to them how musicians go about earning a living. So the problems still are there. In fact i don't think banks have any bloody interest in how any small businesses work. Same goes for thr tax people.

i was never driven out of business by the bastards, but I know plenty that were.

Big numbers don't impress anyone - it reminds one uncomfortably of Roy castle on record breakers. I don't know how many strings of sausages would reach Mars either.

Your defence of the English banking industry does remind me somewhat of British Leyland. they used to boast that if you went into Aveling Barford with 55 grand and said I want a dumper truck, they would proudly say - sure, the waiting list is five to seven years....

Of course foreign firms came along and said what colour would you like, will next week be soon enough?

The British banking system really is that crap. Its ripe for the taking.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 09:06 AM

I am not an expert on the UK, ...

Should empty, unfinished houses, ghost estates be demolished?

However new and structurally sound houses are often demolished ...
House to be demolished after planning breach

Unwanted homes in Irish Republic could be demolished
This IS happening in Ireland - They have been called the 'ghost estates' of the Irish Republic - about 300,000 homes built in the frenzy of the property boom that no-one wants to live in now.

Banks ARE going to demolish houses they have 'seized' and some not even finished... and this is also happening in the USA... unlike you, I do not have inside knowledge of UK banks, so if they are hiding it, and the journalists have not yet had it leaked to them I can't find out: I would expect you from your claims of your great experience in banking, and your contacts, to be the one to know, and by playing cute and not informing us, but denying it, you are pedantically right, not in the UK, so you win again!. You are NEVER wrong Sir!

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 01:41 AM

No Mr.Whittle I have never worked for a bank, not my line at all. By the way do you live in a time warp? Do you believe in, and always reduce things to wild generalisations, caricatures and stereotypes? The banks and the banking practices you speak of as though they exist today belong to the pre-computer days of forty years ago. Why the short public opening hours in those days? Because each branch of every bank in the country had to manually balance its books to the penny every single day, all correspondence having been dealt with before the bank opened its doors.

"We" have sorted them out have we? How? In what way have "We" sorted them out? Any idea how much international banking earns the United Kingdom? (Damn sight more than steel or coal did, oh sorry I forgot they were such shining examples of how not to run a business that the British tax payer had to pay through the nose to subsidise both until somebody saw sense and cried "Enough".)

You tell me Mr.Whittle what percentage of £2,200,000,000,000 is £1,400,000 and then translate that to your annual income and come back and tell me if your bonus would even exist as a coin of the realm and then explain to me what stikes you as being "modest".

I have been toddling round this planet now for damn near my allocation of three score and ten and have only ever seen one banking crisis (the one we happen to be in the after-shocks of now). No British Bank initiated this crisis, that was done in the United States of America and the centre of combustion was a political decision and policy implemented by Bill Clinton that relaxed the criteria for lending and all was based on the deliberately planted false assumption that loans would be guaranteed by the Federal Reserve Bank, which of course they weren't.

Foolestroupe I would dearly love to know whereabouts in England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland that a family has been turfed out of their house by a bank reclaiming it one week and then the bank is forced to demolish the property because it fell into a derelict condition. That is a story that would have hit the front pages of every single tabloid in the country - as far as I am aware it hasn't.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 06:35 PM

""The money injected into the banks allowed them to keep operating without them having to call in ALL their loans."

What do you understand by the phrase "allowed them to keep operating"?? Of course the banks continued to lend but were much more circumspect about who they loaned to."

Contradicting yourself?

"And in this thread it is UK banks we are talking about. Although it sounds a bit like an urban myth to me. Logically people living in a house one week, the bank forecloses and reclaims the house and within a year the house has to be pulled down??"

Ok. so no part of Ireland is part of the UK? I stand corrected... :-)

:-P

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 06:31 PM

What is the matter with you Terribus? did you used to work for a bank or something?

Every body knows that English banks have been acting like arseholes for years. the sort of thing that trades unions were accused of - kid's play to that gang of turds. Restrictive practices....they could have inventedthe term.

The opening hours....absolutely bloody ridiculous. A six hour opening day. All the staff buggering off in the dinner hour when working people needed the bank. Idiotic charges for writing a letter. Idiotic offers of loans, insurance (even when you've got it with them!). Asisine bloody bank managers who want to know - how much a musician earns every month - like they're civil servants. Intransigent rules that they don't apply to their own employees.

Basically they must do about a tenth of the business they could do - if they came down from Planet Mainwaring.

On top of that it turns out the upper echelons have been handing out loans to Russian gangsters and funding General Galtieri's invasion of the Falklands.

now that we've had to sort them out - we should INSIST they improve their services and generally bloody wake up. Then when we've seen some recognition of how bloody hopeless they have been - maybe that will be the time to talk about modest bonuses.

I know what you're going to say. the British banking system is really successful. Well think how much more it could be if it got a little less myopic and delivered a decent service.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 05:48 PM

Psssst Foolestroupe:

"The money injected into the banks allowed them to keep operating without them having to call in ALL their loans."

What do you understand by the phrase "allowed them to keep operating"?? Of course the banks continued to lend but were much more circumspect about who they loaned to. Rather infuriatingly my son's business got caught by this with the RBS refusing to lend them a modest loan that was fully secured. They got round this by obtaining the finance required elsewhere and once RBS see the increased revenue and turnover of the business due to this investment their business account will be transferred to another bank.

As far as I am aware in the UK there have been no instances of;

"banks having called in loans, got houses which were not then not maintained by the banks and had to be pulled down as derelict, thereby generating a massive loss to the banks."

And in this thread it is UK banks we are talking about. Although it sounds a bit like an urban myth to me. Logically people living in a house one week, the bank forecloses and reclaims the house and within a year the house has to be pulled down?? Were that indeed the case then the house must have been in pretty shit state to start with.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 05:14 PM

QUOTE
Hang on a minute Al are you seriously trying to say that the money that the Treasury invested in the banks was used to pay the bonuses of senior staff?? Nothing could be further from the truth. The money injected into the banks allowed them to keep operating without them having to call in ALL their loans.

Bonuses were paid out of the profits the banks made, or in the case of the RBS the performance of senior staff in reversing and reducing loss. I do not believe for one minute that bonuses were paid just for people turning up.
UNQUOTE

If the banks were not allowed to 'loan' that money, bonuses would have been the LAST thing to be cut... as implied in what you just said ... calling in ALL their loans would not have got them ALL 'their' money anyway, only barely a tiny fraction of it.

That has been clearly demonstrated by many banks having called in loans, got houses which were not then not maintained by the banks and had to be pulled down as derelict, thereby generating a massive loss to the banks. But all that 'loss' (read waste of resources) was a tax write off, so the banks LOST almost nothing... and many people then homeless and need 'charity' to survive - VERY bad for Society overall, but VERY good for the banks and executives due to the tax losses :-)

A few institutions with the foresight of mind saw that the best way for society overall, was to keep people in those houses paying money, even there there was a temporary dip in cash flow. If a bank calls a loan, then pulls down the house, none of any of that 'loss' should be allowed as a tax write off.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 02:12 PM

Hang on a minute Al are you seriously trying to say that the money that the Treasury invested in the banks was used to pay the bonuses of senior staff?? Nothing could be further from the truth. The money injected into the banks allowed them to keep operating without them having to call in ALL their loans.

Bonuses were paid out of the profits the banks made, or in the case of the RBS the performance of senior staff in reversing and reducing loss. I do not believe for one minute that bonuses were paid just for people turning up.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 06:09 AM

Couldn't agree more, but was it the wisest use of the money to you've been lent to increase the money of people who are all doing quite nicely anyway - that's the question. I think if we all lent money to some idiot who then gave it Prince charles for cutting his hedge ( something he was doing anyway) - I think we'd be entitled to say something.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 12:39 AM

Of course there are thousands of ways of telling a story and all of them are based on people's "perception" of the facts of the matter.

With regard to the "Banks" issue, which is what this thread is about, not hospital porters or hospital closures, the facts as some people here see them lead them to state that "The banks were GIVEN MONEY" - That is incorrect, it is untrue they have not been GIVEN MONEY they were lent the money, or they had to surrender shares in their business. The money supposedly "GIVEN" to the Banks must all be repaid therefore they have been given nothing and the British Treasury who advanced the Banks that money, at the moment, look as though they will make a handsome profit on the deal.

Propping up the banks meant that people's savings were secured, people's loans were secured. Had the money not been lent then those saver's would have lost everything - they didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 06:19 PM

well this is it. You can't stand in another man's shoes and see what he has seen.

I don't know what Steaming Willy was doing when Harlow Wood Hospital was closed. From the orthpaedic patients point of view - it was the wanton destruction of a major public resource.

My wife was in there when they closed the busiest ward and I know for a fact the staff were told it was emptied because they were expecting incoming casualties from the first gulf war Then another ward was closed, then another. then they came clean. I was there.

My wife was the chairman of the local arthritis group at the time. The doctors (consultants and surgeons) approached us begging us to take direct action However the group was under the aegis of Arthritis care at the time, and AC wouldn't want to compromise its charitable status, by getting involved in things political.

We were informed (correctly) that the facilities that were being destroyed were irreplaceable, and that surgeons would simply not be able or willing to perform some of the procedures that were done routinely at Harlow Wood.

The doctors were promised a an entire department at the new Kingsmill facility. By the time of my wife's next procedure (double ankle fusion) there were just two beds on a general medical ward. The staff were not skilled at moving orthopaedic patients and to avoid further suffering I took her home after about four days (on the advice of the experienced nursing staff). She needed the kind of recuperation and specialist help that HW could have done easily.

Okay - so Steamin has got figures to show he improved things by 30%. I'd say things got worse by about 95%. And the luxury executive houses on the forest site of HW were snapped up at five hundred grand apiece, which I suspect has been a pretty good investment for a few.

I don't accuse Steamin of any dishonesty or villainy. he probably did what he was told was right with the facts he had. But there were other facts and factors, even if he wasn't aware of them.

And I guess thats how it is with Teribus - not a bad bloke. But he shows no awareness or the maturity to realise - there are two ways of telling a story.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 05:49 PM

"None of the above has got anything whatsoever to do with Banking or the bonuses paid to senior management in banks - True?? "

False - the banks make money directly out of most of those, and indirectly make money out of most of the rest by storing and processing, and making available the loan funds of those of who do - hence the big fat bonuses!

Ta da!

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 05:30 PM

"because on the subjects I do contribute on I apply logic, reason and inspect the facts in so far as they are known"

But only as they 'are known to you' - that's just a personal opinion. You display a considerable refusal to accept the opinions of others, as you know that only your opinion is 'correct', through circular reasoning. You also claim that the reason you can reject other's opinions is because of this, ie, that their opinions are based on circular reasoning, just to support their own bias.

This means no progress from fixed positions based on faith. Sort like 'a battle of religions' really.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 04:05 AM

Teribus, you are coming accross as a bit obsesive.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 03:18 AM

The same here DMcG.

I will leave my thread to Teribus. Enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 02:24 AM

In another thread, I said when we get to this point one should civilly bid the other good day. So, Teribus, we strongly disagree, but you have set out your position clearly as I hope I have mine. There are many more objections to your arguments I could make, and no doubt you would make counter-arguments and so the thread would continue to no purpose for a long time. I see no value in that.

So: goodbye, and till we meet in another thread, do well.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 12:10 AM

Arthur all you have shown by your remarks are the "chips" on bother shoulders.

You might well have "been there" but you obviously did not deduce or perceive anything. Anyone over the age of 25 who believes that individual "fat twat businessmen" own the majority of shares in the world still has his head in some sort of Boy's Own Comic.

Pension Funds; Insurance Companies; Investment Funds; Governments own the majority of shares in the world, not private individuals.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 06:01 PM

Mr Hanson, didn't notice you addressing the point made

Am I always in a minority here? Maybe because I do not regard it as a popularity contest. Maybe because on the subjects I do contribute on I apply logic, reason and inspect the facts in so far as they are known. Maybe because instead of slavishly spouting what some "blogger" who happens to agree with my point of view says, I go back to the source and find out what he actually said and work out what my opinion is from there. Maybe it is because I wish to make some effort to correct the endless stream of leftist bullshit, that seems to pervade the threads, all of which are gross misrepresentations, half-truths, downright lies and complete and utter myths.

Example:
Hands up all those who believe that the Banks were GIVEN money??

Truth is that they weren't GIVEN anything were they? They got the money either as a loan or in exchange for stock and that every penny has to be paid back.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 03:02 PM

Just a thought Teribus, have you ever given any thought to why you are always in a minority here ?

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 02:59 PM

Good man Teribus, the best form of defence is attack.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 02:56 PM

Teribus
Why do you assume that none of us have banking experience?

I worked for many years involved in cross currency funding for European and Middle East Countries involving all the top banks worldwide and dealing in LARGE amounts of diverse foriegn currencies.

I also got invited occasionally to the fat twat parties (money no object).

The only thing is I didn't get those repulsive bonuses. But I did get to see how they operated.

Subject: RE: BS: RBS Loss and Boss who gets a bonus UK
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 01:59 PM

This is what I love about "Socialists" and the trendy left:

Dave Hanson - PM
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 03:33 AM

Teribus has nailed his colours to the mast, ' none of it concerns me '
child prostitution, sweatshop labour, child poverty, paedophiles exploiting children ? nowt to do wi' me guv.

I pity you.

Dave H

Foolestroupe - PM
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 02:17 AM

"what those running a company do that I do not work for and have no part of does not concern me, so I keep my nose out of their business and my opinions to myself, because what they do does not affect me or anybody else outside that company."


... including gas fracking destroying water repositories, cyanide poisoning of many in India, global warming by excess pollution (sorry, Mr T does not believe in that one!), ...

The transfer of one statement which when all said and done and taken in context is addressing the payment of bonuses by banks then all of a sudden I am apparently automatically in favour of:

- Child prostitution?
- Sweatshop Labour?
- Child Poverty?
- Paedophiles exploiting children?

- gas fracking destroying water repositories?
- cyanide poisoning of many in India?
- global warming by excess pollution?

None of the above has got anything whatsoever to do with Banking or the bonuses paid to senior management in banks - True??

Now then Hanson and Foolestroupe if you actually want my views on those then open threads to discuss them, on this thread stick with the subject. Do not take what I have said out of context and then attribute views and positions that are not mine to me. It just doesn't wash. As far as voicing pity goes Hanson save it, I really do pity the pair of you having to stumble through life employing what you demonstrate here as your skill in reasoning and logic.