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Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC

Bonzo3legs 03 Mar 11 - 04:08 PM
DMcG 03 Mar 11 - 04:21 PM
Arkie 03 Mar 11 - 09:30 PM
Tangledwood 04 Mar 11 - 02:14 AM
Ian Fyvie 04 Mar 11 - 03:00 AM
r.padgett 04 Mar 11 - 03:25 AM
GUEST 04 Mar 11 - 03:38 AM
GUEST,Jon 04 Mar 11 - 03:58 AM
GUEST,mattkeen 04 Mar 11 - 04:11 AM
GUEST,Grishka 04 Mar 11 - 06:23 AM
Bonzo3legs 04 Mar 11 - 07:33 AM
GUEST,Grishka 04 Mar 11 - 10:11 AM
Stu 04 Mar 11 - 10:13 AM
Bonzo3legs 04 Mar 11 - 10:35 AM
Arkie 04 Mar 11 - 11:36 AM
dick greenhaus 04 Mar 11 - 11:45 AM
IvanB 04 Mar 11 - 02:47 PM
Bonzo3legs 04 Mar 11 - 03:28 PM
GUEST 04 Mar 11 - 03:37 PM
Tangledwood 04 Mar 11 - 05:14 PM
Tattie Bogle 04 Mar 11 - 05:23 PM
Bonzo3legs 05 Mar 11 - 04:40 AM
Bonzo3legs 07 Mar 11 - 04:35 PM
Bonzo3legs 07 Mar 11 - 04:55 PM
Bernard 07 Mar 11 - 06:01 PM
Arkie 07 Mar 11 - 07:15 PM
Bonzo3legs 08 Mar 11 - 04:51 AM
GUEST,Grishka 08 Mar 11 - 06:57 AM
Bonzo3legs 08 Mar 11 - 07:25 AM
GUEST,Mr Red 08 Mar 11 - 09:15 AM
DMcG 08 Mar 11 - 09:19 AM
Bonzo3legs 08 Mar 11 - 09:23 AM
DMcG 08 Mar 11 - 09:33 AM
treewind 08 Mar 11 - 11:07 AM
Bonzo3legs 08 Mar 11 - 11:30 AM
GUEST,Grishka 08 Mar 11 - 03:55 PM
alex s 08 Mar 11 - 04:54 PM
Tangledwood 08 Mar 11 - 06:13 PM
Bonzo3legs 09 Mar 11 - 06:23 AM
Bo 09 Mar 11 - 07:19 AM
Bonzo3legs 09 Mar 11 - 08:16 AM
Arkie 09 Mar 11 - 11:20 AM
Bonzo3legs 09 Mar 11 - 11:45 AM
GUEST,Patsy 10 Mar 11 - 11:02 AM
GUEST,Grishka 10 Mar 11 - 04:38 PM
Bonzo3legs 10 Mar 11 - 04:46 PM
GUEST,Grishka 11 Mar 11 - 06:55 AM
DrugCrazed 11 Mar 11 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,Grishka 11 Mar 11 - 09:09 AM
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Subject: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 04:08 PM

For some reason audio Cds burnt on my PC will not advance to the next track when "next track" button is pressed. They will however play from start to finish all the tracks in sequence. Is this a known problem?

There is no problem with bought CDs though.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 04:21 PM

It sounds like whatever you are using to create the audio CD is combining all the files into a single audio track. If your CD player or PC player displays the number of tracks on the while cd, how many does it say there are?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Arkie
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 09:30 PM

It might help to know what software you are using to burn the CDs. It does sound as though all files are being combined into one track.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Tangledwood
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:14 AM

Did you copy LPs to computer then burn to CD? If so, did you actually split the individual tracks or do you just have two files, one for each side of the LP?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:00 AM

I did hear that PC burned CDs were much less durable than factory made ones - could deterorate after 10years.

Does anyone have more info? Are there particular home burners to beware of? Are there recommended ones? Are Mac CD burners better?

Ian Fyvie


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: r.padgett
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:25 AM

CDs burnt using Windows will play only on pc!

Software such as Audacity and I have Focus Audio are good in that the listed tracks from my source (Mp3/WAV on recording device) can be selected and burnt onto a CD which can then be played on an "old fashioned" CD player, track by track.

So source data, software, and output very important to check

Ray


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:38 AM

I burn CDs on my Windows PC via Nero software, they play on every other CD device I've tried them on without any problems. Nero has an 'Audio Burning' option which seems to work well.

"Are Mac CD burners better?" I don't think there's much difference in the actual burning technology between PC and Mac. I have, however, found that I could fit fewer tracks on a CD when I tried burning my CD on my MacBook.

Andy Sugden


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:58 AM

I like the free KDE one on Linux.

k3b


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: GUEST,mattkeen
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 04:11 AM

They should play on anything

But burnt (PC/MAC/etc/home)will inherently have more errors than pressed (read professional) CD's

That is why professional produced CDs are pressed from a glass master rather than burnt

Software is a big factor with burning CDs
But a decent programme - I am a Mac head, so cant recommend a programme for Windows - but on the Mac I use Waveburner


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 06:23 AM

I guess DMcG (03 Mar 11 - 04:21 PM) solved the OP's problem.

Conventional CD player only play so-called AUDIO CDs, usually organised in tracks, which any burning software can produce upon request. Study the manual or help. (Software can be buggy, but many free programmes are known to yield good results. Burning hardware can be "off the track" as well.)

CD-Rom is a different format, meant for computers. Some recent CD players, usually labeled "MP3", can read it as well (i.e. play the audio files on it, including MP3 files).


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 07:33 AM

I'm using imgburn software.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 10:11 AM

Bonzo, does that mean you do not know the cause of your problem yet, having studied the imgburn help/manual? If so, you should answer DMcG's (03 Mar 11 - 04:21 PM) questions.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Stu
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 10:13 AM

Don't burn CD's on the fastest speed. I use a mac and if you burn a CD on 32x or whatever it can cause problems on players; my advice is never burn over 8x, preferably 4x or 2x.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 10:35 AM

Bonzo, does that mean you do not know the cause of your problem yet, having studied the imgburn help/manual? If so, you should answer DMcG's (03 Mar 11 - 04:21 PM) questions.

I can't answer that until I get home.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Arkie
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 11:36 AM

The problem could be the software. I once tried Imgburn and promptly deleted it but cannot remember why now. Imgburn has some good reviews but all refer to burning images. Are music files also considered images? You might try another of the freeware burning programs, don't bother with Nero Lite. Perhaps someone on Mudcat can recommend a good freeware program. I can't.

I use Media Monkey for organization and tags and have used it to burn CDs successfully. The freeware version is slow but it works. It also allows you to properly tag files so the tag is written to the CD, organize and number the tracks in any order you choose, and also attach an image if you so choose. The file name is not a tag that stays with the music track when it is burned. However, Media Monkey will allow tags to be written from file names which can save a bit of typing.

Good luck.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 11:45 AM

Are you copying CDs/cassettes/LPs? If so, they'll record as one big track, rather than separate smaller ones. You can use a ripping program, but most of them seem to save the individual tracks as MP3s (lower fidelity). One approach is to use a music editing program, such as Audacity, and manually separate th tracks.

RE. durability: I've been burning CDs for a dozen years now, and have never encountered a disc that failed over a period of time. I suspect that it's largely a matter of using higher-quality discs.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: IvanB
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:47 PM

There are instructions for creating an audio CD with ImgBurn here: ImgBurn Audio CD instructions

I started using ImgBurn several years ago just because it was a small program not affected by the "bloat" of the commercial burners that try to be all things to all people. But its lack of size does mean some actions which would be performed by the larger programs must be performed manually in ImgBurn. Basicall these instructions just relate to the building of a "cue" file which ImgBurn uses to build the audio CD. Pretty straightforward, really.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:28 PM

OK, the CD player shows 11 tracks in the screen - it's a Philips CD723. I am burning FLAC files to CD using ImgBurn, with the OptimFROG.dll file and D-C Bass Source dealing with the FLAC conversion. The cue file procedure seems to work OK.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:37 PM

Sugarfoot Jack has mentioned a common problem. Many audio readers have problems with CDs burned at too high a speed, depending on who made the media, what the chemistry is, and the burner's design.

Also, burned CDs and DVDs deteriorate over time. They can start having problems anywhere from months to years later, depending on the same factors. Exposure to UV (ie, sunlight) will accelerate this, and the top layer (over the dye film) can help minimize it.

Best bet is to use a high quality blank media (Taiyo Yuden is what I've used for years with good results), and burn at half the max speed of the media or burner, whichever is lower. I also like printable CDs, as they have an extra layer of protection over the data layer.

My readers that have trouble with burned CDs always respond better to slower burn speeds.
    Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
    Thanks.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Tangledwood
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 05:14 PM

CDs burnt using Windows will play only on pc!


They will play on any player if burnt as audio CDs, not data. I have many dozens created by WMP that play perfectly on home and car players.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 05:23 PM

As a slight side issue from this, i found that a certain supermarket brand of DVD-Rs were not recognised at all by by Mac and therefore would not burn. They work fine in my PC and DVD recorder, thankfully. Another well-known brand of DVD-Rs work fine in my Mac but the retailer couldn't tell me whether they would or not, so it was a calculated risk buying them.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 04:40 AM

I am using Verbatim CD-R at the moment. I intend to try the CD on my Philips CDR 880 Recorder - remember them? Unfortunately the mains lead has come adrift from the socket at the rear of the unit and it's a day's work to untangle the birds' nest of wiring it has fallen into!

Ah, I can also try it in the CD player in the car that my wife uses to see if it will advance one track at a time.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 04:35 PM

Same problem in the CD Recorder, it plays from track 1 but when advanced to track 2 etc it will not play. I'll try Burrrrrn.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 04:55 PM

This is interesting, the CD is on track 3 but still shows track 1???


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bernard
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 06:01 PM

Ummm... sort of confirms the earlier suggestions about it being burned as all one track...!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Arkie
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 07:15 PM

There is probably a setting in Imgburn that needs to be changed. Another option would be to try another burn program that focuses more on music burning.

One internet site recommended the following for ease of use as well as other factors:
1. CDBurnerXP Pro 4
2. Ashampoo Burning Studio Free 6.75
3. Express Burn 4
4. FinalBurner Free
5. Free Audio CD Burner


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 04:51 AM

Thanks I'll try those.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 06:57 AM

Do the players display the correct total number of tracks you intended to create, a number larger than 1? If so, it sounds like a bug in imgburn.

Otherwise you have to study the manual / online help of any burner you are using. (Normally each track must be represented by a separate audio file.)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 07:25 AM

Yes, I burnt 17 tracks and the player displays 17.

One further point, I am burning from FLAC files and ImgBurn has the approapriate add on in order to do this. I will try converting the FLAC files to WAV first.

I wonder if the problem could be anything to do with the way ImgBurn creates a cue sheet?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 09:15 AM

could it be that the setting for gaps/silence has been set to 0 seconds?

check the settings and pay attention to "lead in" and "lead out".

Just a thought.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 09:19 AM

I'm leaning towards the bug in the CD writing software. The best fit for all the facts we know so far seems to be that all the audio information is put in track 1, which is then followed by 16 zero-length tracks.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 09:23 AM

Gaps/silence is set to 0 secs as the recording is continuous (live performance).


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 09:33 AM

Ahh, that sounds promising. By any chance can you set the interval to something very small, but not zero - say one-hundredth of a second? It would not surprise me at all if selecting a zero gap did something untoward that creates this odd behaviour.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: treewind
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 11:07 AM

It is possible to have track markers with continuous audio, but I think it has to be done by burning in DAO (disk at once) mode as opposed to TAO (track-at-once) mode. DAO may not be the default setting of some CD burning software.

Conversely, if you try to set the gaps to less than the standard 2 seconds in TAO mode, it may confuse some players...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 11:30 AM

Thanks DMcG and treewind - very interesting, that's given me something to work on this evening. I suppose it serves me right for listening to live music!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 03:55 PM

Gaps of zero are quite common, most software offers variable gap sizes within the disk. Imgburn used to specialize in disk-at-once, as the name still suggests ("Image" = intermediate file representing the whole CD).

Yes, the TOC (from the cue file) seems to be the weak point; I cannot imagine how conversion to WAV could improve your chances. The best advice may be to try another software, unless you find a solid clue on the internet or in the manual.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: alex s
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 04:54 PM

"CDs burnt using Windows will play only on pc!"

"They will play on any player if burnt as audio CDs, not data. I have many dozens created by WMP that play perfectly on home and car players. "

Tangledwood, I've had the same problem and they will NOT play on other players even if burnt as audio cds - are you burning at a slow speed?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Tangledwood
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 06:13 PM

Just at the default setting I think. Off hand I can't tell you what speed it is but I haven't found it necessary to reduce the burn speed.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 06:23 AM

Problem solved - the very kind author of ImgBurn pointed me towards a firmware update for my CD drive which did the trick!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bo
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 07:19 AM

On a slightly aside issue, I dived into my CD collection over the weekend to demonstrate to a non folkie some really good song writing. I found a copy of Hugh and Tony Williams "Requests" from 1998 and tried it on every device I could find. Nothing worked. I even removed the 'stick on' label they had used but it made no difference, it is unplayable and shows as either 'no disc' or 'disc error' on all devices including the car systems.
Would this indicate that CDs have a limited life. It used to play perfectly and I have found a cassette copy made many years ago and I will turn it into a CD.when I have a spare hour.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 08:16 AM

Perhaps, but the CD may have not been finalised.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Arkie
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 11:20 AM

Bonzo3legs, glad to know the problem is fixed. And what the problem was.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 11:45 AM

Yes, I never knew that firmware needed to be updated on a CD drive!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 11:02 AM

A 'complilation' CD burnt on my son's pc will play on the inbuilt DVD player in my TV but won't play on my CD player which can be a slight problem but not too much of one. It was something to do with the kind of disk it was.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 04:38 PM

Bonzo, please tell us what model you are using, so that we can learn something as well. Did you find any coverage on the internet?

Firmware, like software, needs to be "updated" if it's buggy - which notion sometimes depends on the point of view. It may be a case similar to IE vs. Firefox - IE is usually more forgiving towards sloppy web design, so that people demand Firefox to be "updated" when it insists on a well-defined standard.

It would be interesting to know whether other burning software is successful even with the firmware version you were using previously. I wouldn't be surprised.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 04:46 PM

This is the CD/DVD drive

TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S223C SB01


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 06:55 AM

Bonzo, thanks. A minute of googling shows that this problem is indeed known (e.g. here), but - and that is the point - only from users of Imgburn, as far as I found. Probability suggests that other software can deal with that firmware correctly.

We are grateful to all authors of free software, but this does not mean we have to trust them, in particular when they blame others ...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 07:46 AM

One would argue that it's the job of your OS to do it. [insert Windows failure comment here]

On the subject of durability, from what I've know there isn't much difference between a factory CD and a non factory CD in terms of length apart from a higher quality base media used.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Problem with CDs burnt on PC
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 09:09 AM

DrugCrazed: The burning software, OS, driver, and firmware - any of these four can prevent successful burning if buggy. I don't know any details, but in Bonzo's case we must remember that a change of firmware did the trick. If we further assume (by my above probability argument) that all the other burning programmes never had this problem, it comes down to Imgburn making additional assumptions about the behaviour of the firm/hardware.


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