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What's happened to Sidmouth?

GUEST,Chris Porter 04 Mar 11 - 12:45 PM
Ruth Archer 04 Mar 11 - 01:57 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 04 Mar 11 - 02:10 PM
VirginiaTam 04 Mar 11 - 02:18 PM
Old Vermin 04 Mar 11 - 02:22 PM
SteveMansfield 04 Mar 11 - 02:49 PM
Ruth Archer 04 Mar 11 - 02:52 PM
GUEST,Chris Porter 04 Mar 11 - 03:11 PM
Herga Kitty 04 Mar 11 - 03:37 PM
Herga Kitty 04 Mar 11 - 03:38 PM
Ruth Archer 04 Mar 11 - 03:40 PM
GUEST,Chris Porter 04 Mar 11 - 03:46 PM
Ruth Archer 04 Mar 11 - 03:48 PM
GUEST,Chris Porter 04 Mar 11 - 04:28 PM
Ruth Archer 04 Mar 11 - 04:37 PM
GUEST,Chris Porter 04 Mar 11 - 04:45 PM
Ruth Archer 04 Mar 11 - 05:00 PM
GUEST,Chris Porter 04 Mar 11 - 05:08 PM
Ruth Archer 04 Mar 11 - 05:10 PM
Spleen Cringe 04 Mar 11 - 05:44 PM
Ruth Archer 04 Mar 11 - 05:45 PM
Old Vermin 04 Mar 11 - 06:05 PM
Ruth Archer 04 Mar 11 - 06:15 PM
Surreysinger 04 Mar 11 - 07:57 PM
Richard Bridge 04 Mar 11 - 08:10 PM
Dave Earl 04 Mar 11 - 08:37 PM
LesB 05 Mar 11 - 03:09 AM
Ruth Archer 05 Mar 11 - 03:32 AM
GUEST,John MacKenzie 05 Mar 11 - 03:50 AM
GUEST 05 Mar 11 - 04:04 AM
GUEST,JM 05 Mar 11 - 04:35 AM
GUEST,JM 05 Mar 11 - 05:34 AM
GUEST,Chris Porter 05 Mar 11 - 05:36 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 05 Mar 11 - 05:45 AM
VirginiaTam 05 Mar 11 - 05:48 AM
Continuity Jones 05 Mar 11 - 06:00 AM
GUEST,Chris Porter 05 Mar 11 - 06:08 AM
GUEST,Chris Porter 05 Mar 11 - 06:16 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 05 Mar 11 - 06:16 AM
Bonzo3legs 05 Mar 11 - 06:21 AM
GUEST,Chris Porter 05 Mar 11 - 06:21 AM
GUEST 05 Mar 11 - 06:23 AM
Bonzo3legs 05 Mar 11 - 06:49 AM
Howard Jones 05 Mar 11 - 06:52 AM
VirginiaTam 05 Mar 11 - 06:54 AM
Mr Red 05 Mar 11 - 07:05 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 05 Mar 11 - 07:53 AM
GUEST,Chris Porter 05 Mar 11 - 09:10 AM
Howard Jones 05 Mar 11 - 09:28 AM
Bonzo3legs 05 Mar 11 - 10:47 AM
GUEST,Mark Stevens 05 Mar 11 - 11:28 AM
GUEST,mattkeen 05 Mar 11 - 12:25 PM
johnadams 05 Mar 11 - 12:54 PM
Steve in Sidmouth 05 Mar 11 - 01:05 PM
Steve in Sidmouth 05 Mar 11 - 01:11 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 05 Mar 11 - 01:33 PM
BTNG 05 Mar 11 - 03:06 PM
Old Grizzly 05 Mar 11 - 04:49 PM
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WalkaboutsVerse 05 Mar 11 - 04:57 PM
Jack Campin 05 Mar 11 - 04:59 PM
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Surreysinger 06 Mar 11 - 06:08 AM
s&r 06 Mar 11 - 06:30 AM
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johnadams 06 Mar 11 - 10:59 AM
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Herga Kitty 06 Mar 11 - 05:18 PM
Ann N 06 Mar 11 - 06:05 PM
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Joe Offer 07 Mar 11 - 12:58 AM
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Steve in Sidmouth 07 Mar 11 - 04:57 AM
Folkiedave 07 Mar 11 - 05:48 AM
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GUEST,mattkeen 07 Mar 11 - 09:30 AM
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GUEST,Deaf R's 07 Mar 11 - 12:39 PM
Steve in Sidmouth 07 Mar 11 - 04:25 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 07 Mar 11 - 04:28 PM
Mrs.Duck 07 Mar 11 - 04:47 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 07 Mar 11 - 05:03 PM
Folkiedave 07 Mar 11 - 05:26 PM
Steve in Sidmouth 07 Mar 11 - 06:06 PM
Surreysinger 07 Mar 11 - 06:23 PM
s&r 07 Mar 11 - 06:39 PM
Folkiedave 08 Mar 11 - 04:44 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 08 Mar 11 - 05:50 AM
Steve in Sidmouth 08 Mar 11 - 06:10 AM
The Sandman 08 Mar 11 - 06:11 AM
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The Sandman 08 Mar 11 - 06:27 AM
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GUEST,Ebor_fiddler 08 Mar 11 - 10:20 AM
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Old Vermin 08 Mar 11 - 10:55 AM
Steve in Sidmouth 08 Mar 11 - 11:28 AM
theleveller 08 Mar 11 - 11:33 AM
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Steve in Sidmouth 08 Mar 11 - 01:13 PM
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the lemonade lady 09 Mar 11 - 08:53 AM
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Will Fly 09 Mar 11 - 10:33 AM
MikeofNorthumbria 09 Mar 11 - 10:59 AM
GUEST,mattkeen 09 Mar 11 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,Folkiedave 09 Mar 11 - 11:24 AM
George Papavgeris 09 Mar 11 - 11:34 AM
Steve in Sidmouth 09 Mar 11 - 11:39 AM
s&r 09 Mar 11 - 01:51 PM
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WalkaboutsVerse 09 Mar 11 - 02:48 PM
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The Sandman 09 Mar 11 - 04:52 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 10 Mar 11 - 12:42 AM
GUEST,Phil B 10 Mar 11 - 06:47 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 10 Mar 11 - 04:50 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 10 Mar 11 - 05:20 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 10 Mar 11 - 05:30 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 11 Mar 11 - 02:03 AM
GUEST,guest -jim younger 11 Mar 11 - 09:51 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 11 Mar 11 - 10:44 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 11 Mar 11 - 10:57 AM
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Don(Wyziwyg)T 12 Mar 11 - 07:11 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 12 Mar 11 - 07:51 AM
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Subject: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Chris Porter
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 12:45 PM

Can someone explain to me what has happened to our dearly beloved Sidmouth FF? I have used the term 'our' because I firmly believe that a festival which has such longevity, has done so on the back of loyal supporters born over many, many years. Therefore, such a festival is very much under the ownership of its supporter base! Looking at this year's programme, it appears to have been hijacked by the current 'let's develop new audiences / appeal to the yoof of today' trendies. Talk about 'throwing the baby out with the bath water' or 'biting the hand that feeds you' ...

Sidmouth, because of its scale and popularity has always had to meet the needs of very diverse audiences, seperated either by age, musical interests, dance vs concerts etc etc. It was 'by and large' over the years a successful formula. But now, the social dance programme and the ceilidh programme has been basically 'axed' with only two 'named' bands being booked to perform - Random and Steamchicken. Normally there are about 22 ceilidhs during the week and season tickets are bought in abundance by the ceilidh pro dancers but not this year!

Also, there has been a creeping mentality of 'bulk buying' artists to obviously strike economically favourable deals. But I am afraid that this just leads to a stagnant artistic programme. In 2010 there was the usual Blue Murder, Watersons, CBS, Tamms and Coope AND Spiers and Boden, Bellowhead, S&B Celidh etc etc .... I am afraid that the belief that people want to watch the same people wearing different hats is born from someone of little creativity driven by money and not by artistic direction.

I love Jim Mory but I don't want to see/hear him providing Mowtown, Tribute music, silent disco etc at Sidmouth 2011 he's too good a creative musician for that.

What have you dome to my festival ... ???


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 01:57 PM

Hi Chris,

It's interesting to hear your perspective, and thanks for the feedback. As I'm sure you are aware, Sidmouth has many constituent audiences, and many people who see themselves as stakeholders in the festival. While we have to make certain decisions for economic reasons, we also try to provide a festival which caters for all of these audiences, and must programme a range of much-loved favourites while at the same time providing new and innovative programming. I will try to deal with your points individually:

"Looking at this year's programme, it appears to have been hijacked by the current 'let's develop new audiences / appeal to the yoof of today' trendies. Talk about 'throwing the baby out with the bath water' or 'biting the hand that feeds you' ... "

Well, I'm not entirely sure where that idea comes from, but I'd be interested for you to provide some examples. Yes, we do things like Motown Ceilidh and Silent Disco, but Sidmouth has always had a silly streak which seemed to be one of its strengths. However, we also have Ham headliners such as Kate Rusby, Show of Hands, The Spooky Men's Chorale, Dougie MacLean, the reunion of Home Service, Roy Bailey and Tony Benn's The Writing on the Wall, Karine Polwart, Peggy Seeger...I'm not really sure how these artists equate to trying to pander to "yoof" or "today's trendies".

In the Bulverton we have a programme that has tried to provide some of the international focus and flavour that the festival has become known for: hence Nidi d'Arac and Anxo Lorenzo. These are fantastic artists with international reputations. The Yiddish Twist Orchestra and Moishe's Bagel are great examples of what happens to international music when it comes to Britain and takes on new influences and styles.



"Sidmouth, because of its scale and popularity has always had to meet the needs of very diverse audiences, seperated either by age, musical interests, dance vs concerts etc etc. It was 'by and large' over the years a successful formula."

I would agree, and we are certainly trying to maintain that variety and appeal to a whole range of audiences with the current programme.


"But now, the social dance programme and the ceilidh programme has been basically 'axed' with only two 'named' bands being booked to perform - Random and Steamchicken."

This is simply not true. If anything, we have taken on board the difficulties with Social Dance in recent years and have gone very much for a "back to basics" programme that features some of the most popular bands and callers: Colin Hume, Mike Courtold, Lynne Render, Barrie Bullimore, Bill & Barbara Kinsman, Momentum, Meg, Molly & Bill, Folkus Pocus and the English Contra Dance Band. There will also be a new programme of afternoon tea dances in the Blackmore Marquee.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that only two ceilidh bands have been booked (are you on our mailing list? Maybe you should be, as the new leaflet with a lot of this information has just been sent out). So far we have announced Tiger Moth, the Simon Care All Stars, Steamchicken, Glorysrokes, The Old Swan Band, The Watch, Hekety, Random, Rod Stradling's Phoenix Band, and there are several more to come. The number of ceilidhs will remain what it has been in recent years - which is actually more like 29, with two per day at the Anchor, one each evening at Blackmore, plus the LNEs.


"Also, there has been a creeping mentality of 'bulk buying' artists to obviously strike economically favourable deals. But I am afraid that this just leads to a stagnant artistic programme. In 2010 there was the usual Blue Murder, Watersons, CBS, Tamms and Coope AND Spiers and Boden, Bellowhead, S&B Celidh etc etc .... I am afraid that the belief that people want to watch the same people wearing different hats is born from someone of little creativity driven by money and not by artistic direction."


Well, just to clarify slightly with regard to last year: we did not book The Watersons, nor Spiers and Boden as a concert band. The S&B ceilidh was offered to me, and as it had not been done anywhere else before, I accepted. It was a popular event which had about 850 attenders.

With your wider point I would also take some exception. Yes, we do book offshoots of different groups and bands. Yes, it is cost-effective to do so. But with over 600 individual events (not counting the family festival), I try to ensure that there is a balance maintained within the programme and that such things do not become dominant. You seem to want us to bring all the individual artists down to Devon for one day and then send them on their way, but this is not particularly sensible in terms of costs to the festival - keep in mind we are still getting the festival back on to sound financial footing and paying off a debt of £60k that accrued from 2005 - 2008. My job is to create an interesting and diverse programme while sticking to very stringent financial controls. We have turned the festival around financially in the last 2 years, but it's an uncertain financial climate out there, and we still need to be cautious.

Having said that, programming offshoots of bands, or artists to appear in several contexts, is hardly a new or even recent idea. Many people like the opportunity to see their favourite artists several times during the festival in different combinations. One thing I do not do, which did happen pre-2009, is book many artists for the entire week. Most artists come in for 2 - 3 days, which helps to maintain the variety of the programme over the whole week.


"I love Jim Mory but I don't want to see/hear him providing Mowtown, Tribute music, silent disco etc at Sidmouth 2011 he's too good a creative musician for that."


Well, Jim Moray wants to do these things, and he's very good at them. He's doing the folk quiz again this year, too. We have had his band for the last two years, so there have been good opportunities to see him in his more usual incarnation; one of the great things about Sidmouth is that it gives artists the chance to do things they can't do anywhere else, and the audience a chance to see their favourite artists in new and different contexts.


I hope this has addressed your concerns. The only thing I would add is that ticket sales have been steadily growing, so it would seem that many of our stakeholders are very happy with the direction we are going in and the programming we're providing. Perhaps we'll see you in August.


Best wishes,


Joan Crump
Artistic Director


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:10 PM

Well said Joanie. And well done for being reasonable. Don't think I could have done that!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:18 PM

Last year being my first ever Sidmouth, I can't speculate on how it has changed. I can only say that it was the best fun I have had in yonks and I can't wait for this year's.
I found the selection of artists and activities excellent. My only issue was not enough time or energy to do everything I wanted to do. Roll on August. It can't come too soon for me.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:22 PM

Hmm. The leaflet this year did indeed look a bit light on ceilidh. Otherwise, Spooky Men was about all I felt I really had to go and hear.

I understand that there are very many people who are happy to pay to sit and be audiences, and others who do things dance, sing or play. The two presumably coincide to an extent.

My definition of the ideal Sidmouth is to have good weather and do a mix of ceilidhs, workshops, sessions, the Middle Bar and idling round the town and beach, perhaps taking in the odd concert.

And of course meeting people. Quite ridiculous, but our former next-door neighbours from Surrey now live at Yatton in Somerset, are not remotely folkies and are usually met on their day out on the Friday somewhere along the front towards the Lifeboat.

Being short of time last year, I did the bare essentials - Middle Bar and ceilidh.

Well, I know people who go to Sidmouth, kip in the van and just do pubs sessions and idle for the week.

No pleasing everyone.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:49 PM

God I feel really old now. I went to my first Sidmouth in 1981, and people were telling me then that it wasn't as good as it used to be ...


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:52 PM

Hi Old Vermin,

Keep in mind that the initial leaflet can't really do justice to the whole programme, and can only really focus on selected highlights. The usual workshops, discussions, presentations, talks, ceilidhs (and the rest) will all be there. The Taster Programme, which comes out in April, will contain much more detail about Manor, Bedford and Woodlands concerts, workshops, ceilidhs, and lots more.


I am working on adding to the website at the moment, and it's worth checking regularly for information - I am aiming to make it as informative as I can this year, with separate pages for different aspects of programming. But it's a big job, and has to be fit around other things - like booking artists! Please make sure you're on our mailing list and it's worth joining our facebook group, too - we will be mailing out newsletters and more info about the programme regularly till mid-July.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Chris Porter
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:11 PM

Hi Ruthie / Joannie. Thank you for your time and most eloquent explanation of Sidmouth's programming policy as you see it. It is undoubtedly a thankless task and most difficult to execute.

I was aware of the full list of ceilidh bands who were booked. My point was one of 'excellence' which Sidmouth has always been associated with. I am afraid that TigerMoth do not equate to such as Peeping Tom, Whapweasel, Tickled Pink, Bedlam, Toothless Mary, Woodpeckers, Polkaworks etc etc. Simon Care is brilliant but over exposed with several dance formats under his wing and I am afraid that his rather unpredictable line-ups with his 'All Stars' or 'Serendipity' again doesn't smack of assured quality. Old Swan are fine for the old style 'village music sound' but please don't programme them for the Bulverton which would be a mis-programmed venue for them and us. As someone who attends 4 or 5 whole seasons of ceilidhs around the country I know that I speak on behalf of several Sidmouth faithfuls - until now.

I am up for fun as much as the next person and the themed evenings at the Bulverton are always a good laugh. My point, was the over repititional use of artists which is becoming more evident. I am concerned because it is similar to the useage of so called 'TV celebs' to front programmes outside of their experiences and skill set. Eg What makes a gardener suddenly become a great chat show host (Alan Tichmarsh). Just because Mrs or Mr 'so and so' are good 'folk musicians' why should they be great at everything else they turn their hand to ... also why is expected that people would want to pay to see them over and over?

Oh well never mind ... I am sure that the new Sidmouth will be fine for a while, but just bear in mind that the traditional audience might well disappear over time ... and through death. But maybe you don't want old dinosaurs anymore!!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:37 PM

Over-repetitional use of artists...

Chris - you're not a dinosaur.

Gosh, I remember in the pre-Steve Heap days, when artists were booked for the whole week, and you were lucky if you could get into the Beach Store or Horse and Groom to hear them.....

Kitty


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:38 PM

Oh, and if you wanted an evening ceilidh, you probably had to go to Sidford, Sidbury or Newton Poppleford.

Kitty


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:40 PM

Hi Chris,

I think in terms of ceilidh bands and quality, we will have to agree to disagree. I think we've got some really interesting ceilidh bands booked so far (and I'm chuffed about the one-off with Tiger Moth), and the end programme will certainly aim to cater for the different ceilidh audiences we attract. We have had most of the bands you mention in the last couple of years - if we booked the same bands every year, no doubt we would face accusations that our programme was stale and samey.

I'm not sure what you mean by "traditional" audience - we have a whole programme of traditional events planned which should make fans of traditional music and dance very happy.

Not sure why they jibe about not wanting "old dinosaurs" either - as I say, the range of programming we offer should appeal to the full range of ages and enthusiasms.

Cheers,

Joan


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Chris Porter
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:46 PM

Thanks Kitty, I don't think I am a dinosaur, I have always prided myself on being very open minded and welcoming of change and new ideas. Change can be a very good thing as it should refresh, build on lessons learnt and enhance our life's experiences. Unfortunately, I fear that I might become just bored in Sidmouth's case.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:48 PM

Oh, one more thing:

"Simon Care is brilliant but over exposed with several dance formats under his wing and I am afraid that his rather unpredictable line-ups with his 'All Stars' or 'Serendipity' again doesn't smack of assured quality"

Well, I have the advantage over you as I've seen the proposed lineup - and it's a cracker. :)


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Chris Porter
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 04:28 PM

Hiya again ...

With regards to dance band line up. There are bands which you have only used once during the past 2 years so could be used again this year such as Tickled Pink, Random, All Blacked Up and Bedlam (used only once since 2006). Peeping Tom hasn't been used since 2006. Trinculo nor Asha have been used since 2007You have used bands for 2 years running 09/10 ... Toothless Mary and Dartmoor so there is no argument for not booking some bands.

Mmm well I danced to Simon's All Stars very recently. Of course it was ok but not waht most dancers would call 'Sidmouth Standard'. Was he not there last year with yet another band Tiggerz??


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 04:37 PM

The All Stars is a different band, with a totally different lineup. That's why they are in an LNE, unlike Tiggerz last year.

Dartmoor Pixies, like several other Devon artists, do get repeat bookings because of the local connection. Toothless Mary had not previously been an LNE band, and I thought they were ready - artist development.

Some of the other bands we have had recently could be booked this year, it's true - but then what do we do next year? Like the rest of the programme, it's about trying to create a balance and not having an excessive number of repetitions.

To be honest, I am not sure that carrying on the discussion at this level of detail is either helpful or productive. Programmers have to have a certain amount of faith in their own instincts and decisions, as well as talking to people whose opinions they value, which I do regularly. At the end of the day, it's ticket sales that will determine the success or otherwise of this year's programme. I am confident in, and actually rather proud of, our programme for this year, and hope that those who do come to Sidmouth have a great time.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Chris Porter
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 04:45 PM

Thanks for the dialogue.

Just one last comment ... As someone who has spent their full-time PROFESSIONAL life creating inclusive programming for such acclaimed bodies as Rambert Dance Company and the Birmingham Royal Ballet, I must agree that programming is a very delicate balance of opinion BUT it is about meeting audience and participant need rather than massaging the ego of the artistic director. It isn't about making you 'proud' .....


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 05:00 PM

Well, if I am put in the position of having to defend my programming, I am happy to put myself on the line and say yes, I AM proud of it. And the reason why I'm proud of it is because, in my opinion, we have some of the most interesting, diverse, exciting and innovative programming of any English folk festival, and I think our audiences will really enjoy it. Certainly the overwhelming feedback over the past two years would indicate that this is the case.

I'm very pleased that you worked in the arts and consider your programming to have been inclusive and the organisations to have been acclaimed - presumably those are adjectives you use because they are things that you are proud of...?


We wouldn't do the audience research we do every year - and act upon it - if the needs of our audiences were not paramount. By and large we try not to give excessive attention to one person's opinions, because that's not a particularly representative sample. We tend instead to respond to trends in opinion, an example of which can be seen in this year's re-vamped social dance programme. However, when someone raises issues and criticisms on a public forum such as this one, I am put into the awkward position of having to respond publicly to one individual's perspective and criticisms. I hope you will acknowledge, as an arts professional yourself, that it would be difficult for me to continue further with this dialogue in this particular context. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Chris Porter
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 05:08 PM

Hi Joan, I think you are quite correct in saying that we have exhausted this thread. Thank you for engaging with my concerns. I write first and foremost as a dancer and have expressed my disappointment and concerns for the future. You have defended your position but I will not be attending 'your' festival this year as I will exercise my rite to withdraw my 37 years of loyalty. Thank you ...


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 05:10 PM

Not "my" festival, Chris - but certainly my programming, the success or failure of which will ultimately be my responsibility. Sorry we won't see you this year.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 05:44 PM

I so wish I could get a pass-out to attend. Any tips on how to persuade a folk-averse partner that me disappearing to Sidmouth for a week is a good thing?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 05:45 PM

Could they not come and enjoy the beach, the town, the huge ice creams, the crab sarnies...? :)


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 06:05 PM

Crab sandwiches. The real point of Sidmouth. Seriously.

Forgot to list story-telling in the more desirable bits, BTW. Just heard Debs Newbold, and very good she is.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 06:15 PM

She is indeed! And she's coming back this year. :)


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 07:57 PM

So she said!! :-)


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 08:10 PM

I really think I should try to find more Sidders time this year - but I have the problems of an elderly dog who needs dogsitters and a one-man practice with clients...

All I really want though is the fringe.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Dave Earl
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 08:37 PM

Well Richard,if you can only fit in a couple of days, you can always find a Fringe or Free session somewhere during Folkweek and look into one of the things that Joan has programmed.

People on this thread probably know where I spend most of my time when I'm at Sidmouth (I also do stewarding work for Folkweek )but I'm not trying to force my taste on yourself.

I think dogs can be catered for to a certain extent but probably your clients (I know your profession)will have to do without you while you are in Sidders. - There's also mobile internet option these days of course.

Hope you can get down for a day or two but if not I'll catch up with you at one or two other places around or corner of the country won't I?

Dave


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: LesB
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 03:09 AM

What with all the bickering I keep reading year after year, it's no wonder i've never been to Sidmouth. Mind you, truth be told, i've never realy fancied it & it's too far away from me anyway.
Cheers
Les


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 03:32 AM

Chris, I am not sure that anyone is led like a "lamb to the slaughter". We make programme announcements a few days before tickets go on sale. We then continue to release information as it becomes available. Customers choose to buy their tickets based on that information, or not. Just like they would at any other festival.

If you choose not to come to Sidmouth this year, that's sad, but it is, of course, your choice. If anyone has any *genuine* criticisms, questions or observations to make about Sidmouth, I am happy to answer them openly and honestly, as I have done with you.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 03:50 AM

Would Sidmouth be worse off, without all the "Big names", whom you can see/hear ad nauseam, at dozens of other festivals every year?
This would leave the ceilidhs, and the fringe events, official and otherwise. I'm quite sure that Sidmouth wouldn't see much of a decrease in visitors.
It would cost a lot less to run, so possibly the nett result would be, Sidmouth is better off financially.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 04:04 AM

It's one approach, Giok, but it's not the approach of the current management. Doing the bigger acts and running the Ham is not the thing that got the festival into financial difficulty - the past two years, in which we've done big showsat the Ham and Bulverton, but operated much tighter financial controls and generated increased ticket sales, have proved that.

I talked earlier about the many different constituent audiences that Sidmouth has. Many of those audiences see Sidmouth as just being about the bits of the programme that interest them, and think that Sidmouth would do perfectly well without the bits that they are not interested in. The fact that we had so many sold out Ham events last year would indicate that there is a strong demand for these events, and of course doing the big, populist shows brings in revenue which can then be spent on more specialist or risky programming.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,JM
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 04:35 AM

I've got an idea. How about Sidmouth getting rid of all the "big names" AND the ceilidhs, workshops, dance displays, morris, LNEs etc. That would leave just the fringe which I'm sure would put the festival in a better position financially, wouldn't it?..


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,JM
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:34 AM

"I love Jim Mory but I don't want to see/hear him providing Mowtown, Tribute music, silent disco etc at Sidmouth 2011 he's too good a creative musician for that."

On a serious note, I've been booked as a concert artist for the last few years and I'm sure people would be bored of me if I was booked again this year. But the Silent Disco is a highly successful event that was originated at Sidmouth in 2009. I don't think I'm imagining it to say it was the busiest LNE of the week last year. It was a very creative piece of programming by Joan as a way to get round noise restrictions that paid off enough to become a regular event and I'm really proud of it. Through the Sidmouth silent discos I've been offered DJing slots at Cambridge Folk Festival, Bristol FF, The Bellowhead New Years Eve event etc - its something that all the other festivals wish they'd thought of and want to copy...

The Motown Ceilidh is a repeat of something that has happened successfully at Whitby for the last few years - and its actually the Eliza Carthy ceilidh band, I'm just the guitar player for that one. If you look in Derek Schofields 'Sidmouth at 50' book there are some wonderful photos of Nic Jones and Martin Carthy in fancy dress playing at "50s rock and roll" night at Carinas in the late 70's. Sidmouth has always had an element of that kind of silliness. And actually, at the core its only a Motown ceilidh in the same way that Steamchicken do "ragtime ceilidh" or Tickled Pink do "80s rock ceilidh" - we still take the danceability of the music seriously and have Martyn Harvey calling. It's not a throwaway event.

And that's not mentioning the hundreds of other serious events programmed over the week, a lot of which is totally unique to Sidmouth (the major new production of the Transports for example). The accusation that it "is born from someone of little creativity driven by money and not by artistic direction" is totally untrue and amounts to a personal slur against someone who is doing a great deal for the festival, and the folk world at large.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Chris Porter
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:36 AM

I think that John has made a good point. Firstly, you can see many of the 'household' names at many other festivals across the country. Eg I was very much entertained by Jim Moray's huge input and hard work into the recent IVFDF weekend in Bristol but ... do I really want to see him at Sidmouth with Mowtown, Transports, Privateers etc etc. Diverse and creative programming vs saturation has to take into consideration the national picture with regards to performance. Sidmouth cannot just rely on 'the lambs' going to Sidmouth purely because it is 'Sidmouth' ... that would be taking a very arrogant viewpoint.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:45 AM

An interesting, illuminating and (mainly) a good natured thread. I feel that anyone who takes on the task of organising such a diverse and large operation like Sidmouth, deserves applause. Of course, not all elements of the week will be applauded by all, there are parts of the festival that don't appeal to me at all. but, actually thats not the point. I can always find enough things to keep me occupied, whether it be a session, a workshop, a concert, whatever. Joan will correct me I'm sure, but something like 600 plus events over 7 days? Well worth it, and all taking place in venues within walking distance. Pretty good value for money if you ask me. Plus all the kids events.....(who will become the artists of the future after all.) Good luck to the organisers. I've enjoyed the 30 ish Sidmouths I've been to. Will be back this year. It will be different as ever, but nothing stays the same does it..


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:48 AM

Even if you only fringe, no one can deny that some of those sessions are made more special by the dropping in of "big time" artists.

I love the workshops and if having high profile acts which sell tickets help to pay for these, then more power, I say.

I don't know if I could cope with a week of just tune sessions and sing a rounds. I can't dance, so I would get bored pretty quick at ceilidhs.

What is wrong with catering to a variety of tastes? Because of the variety, I discovered artists and styles I never would have considered by name or youtube video only. Live experience is a great teacher.

I would like to see some lesser known artists get a chance at more recognition and some earnings. And I suspect that this is a big bone of contention among some Sidmouth detractors. It is unfortunate that due to the size of the festival and limited venue slots, this is difficult to address. However, there are busking spots dotted around town, a few places not being used to capacity by the festival (pubs, halls, sports club, etc.) might provide stage space, and the Hub outside the Ham provides high visibility. So they are not on the official programme! They would still be part of the scene contributing to the richness of the festival and getting some dosh and recognition to boot.

@ Spleen Cringe
There is plenty to see and do around Sidmouth reachable by public transport for your other half. The Donkey Sanctuary, Sidmouth Museum, Norman Lockyer Observatory, number of railways and railway museums, houses and gardens like Sand in Sidbury and Cadhay in Ottery St Mary's. In Sidmouth town there are historic sites, gardens, esplanade, Jurassic coast, and loads of interesting shops. Not all that is going on is folk music either. I have heard blues, jazz, classic rock, world and popular music coming from buskers and out of pubs and clubs and churches. Variety of non music street performance and street vendors too. She shouldn't be bored at all.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:00 AM

I'll be at Sidmouth and I'll hopefully enjoy it. Certainly I'll go along with the intention of enjoying myself. Those who want to stay at home with the intention of grumping and grousing and generally being miserable should do just that. Or maybe they could divert their energies into putting on their own perfect festival?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Chris Porter
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:08 AM

Ralphie, I am believe it or not a very keen supporter of Sidmouth FW having spent good money there for 37 years. I am just expressing a concern on behalf of others with whom I have had many conversations, especially from the dance world.

Dancers unlike concert audiences are not a passive group of festival attendees. For them to exercise and express their passion for music, they do have certain expectations with regards to those bands who perform for them to dance to. The balance is different from concert formats in that ceilidh bands have to perform in a manner and style which make people want to participate by dancing. If they don't, then people won't dance. Concert artists deliver a style of music/song which they have created, want to deliver and are at home with for their own esoteric reasons. The resulting creations are an expression of their own passions and hope that they develop a following and fan base for their music.

Therefore, so called inspirational 'one-offs' are untried and tested, have no track record of popularity and by and large will be using Sidmouth dance audiences as guinea pigs for their own self indulgance. All too often these 'scratch' bands hardly ever surpass the sum of their parts and leave the audiences gagging for 'no more'!! Don't forget, dancers want to dance to a full sound of dance music, not to drool over so called 'dance music stars'. Mmm I am beginning to wonder what personal experience of hard-core ceilidh dancing the artistic director has ...?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Chris Porter
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:16 AM

Mmm Oh dear ... Mr Jones has a valid comment but it is only relevant for those people who only have folk music in their lives and therefore seem to think that Sidmouth, or indeed folk music should be the centre of the universe ... how very sad. If I choose not to go to Sidmouth, I will not be sad nor grumpy, I shall be diverting my time and energy into new and different experiences which will enhance my life, rather than bore me.

Virginia Tam is quite correct regarding the need to showcase new and emerging talent. A few years ago at Sidmouth there was a mechanism for 'fast-tracking' Dukes open-mike artists onto a concert platform at the Bulverton each day during the week ... has this creative thinking been disgarded?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:16 AM

Jim makes a very good point. Sidmouth has always been an event for performers to move out of there comfort zone, and try collaborations and experimental endeavours. The thursday night Drill Hall ceilidhs for instance. The ceilidh under the sea...The Rock'n Roll one..(Brylcreem was in short supply!)
The LNE boxing match between Packie Byrne and Fred Jordan! Yes, silly of course, but, indicative of the sense of humour that is a vital part of Sidmouth...The Dead Sea Surfers providing the entire audience with brown paper bags designed like ukeleles, and making them do a solo!
Jim's silent disco, is just the latest in a long tradition of lunatic activities. Long may that continue....
As has been said. If you don't like Sidmouth, either don't bother coming, or find your own town, and start your own festival. It's nothing that will cost you less than 50 grand. Easy!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:21 AM

"I really think I should try to find more Sidders time this year - but I have the problems of an elderly dog who needs dogsitters and a one-man practice with clients..."

That is a problem. In Buenos Aires' Plaza San Martin, which is a park near the city centre, there is an area where folks leave their dogs with a band of dog carers whilst at work or maybe just shopping. I tried counting them once and gave up at 100! My point is that maybe some enterprising people could arrange something like this for Sidmouth or even other festivals.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Chris Porter
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:21 AM

Yes Ralphie, I am all for collaborations and fun fun fun, but these collaborations were always the added value events which helped make the festival unpredictable in many ways. It was a successful formula. However, what has happened is that these collaborations have become more 'professionally' contrived, less spontaneous and at times the main focus for the festival programming and ... ticket sales which they were never intended to be in years past!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:23 AM

The artistic director is not a dancer, but she speaks to and consults dancers regularly, just as she consults others with expertise on various aspects of the programme. She consulted last year with Cat Kelly, for example, who has rejuvenated Oxfolk ceilidhs. Her partner is Derek Schofield, who also has substantial experience of the English dance scene, and in fact of Sidmouth.

The "scratch band" format will be applicable to two events, out of almost 30.

As I say, we also take the feedback forms we receive very seriously. Hence the changes to the social dance programme (which your initial post accused us of "axeing"). If substantial numbers of people had responded negatively to the ceilidh programme, or if numbers for events were falling, we would take action.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:49 AM

I dare say that a number of ladies and gentlemen who go to the Sidmouth festive have their glasses permanently half empty!!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:52 AM

Successful ceilidh bands, no less than concert bands, "deliver a style of music/song which they have created, want to deliver and are at home with for their own esoteric reasons." Of course, to be succesful the resulting music must be danceable, but the creative process and motivation are similar, which is why the bands all sound so different.

The point of a festival, to my mind, is not just a chance to see the artists whose work you know and are familiar with but also those who you may not have come across before. In these cases you do have to put some trust in the organisers' taste and judgement, and there will inevitably be occasions when these don't coincide with yours. However to expect a festival to book only the big-name ceilidh bands seems to me to rather miss the point. A festival provides an opportunity to come out of your comfort zone and dance to many different bands, both familiar and unfamiliar.

In the case of ceilidh bands, even more so than concert artists, not being a big name is not necessarily an indicator of quality. Most ceilidh bands are not full-time musicians and there are a great many excellent bands who are not widely known outside their local patch because they prefer not to spend their weekends touring the UK's motorways.

Scratch bands are always an unknown quantity, but when they are made up of exoerienced and creative musicians there's a good chance something interesting will come out of it. And when they make up only a tiny proportion of the programme it hardly seems worth getting upset over - there are plenty of other things to do.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:54 AM

Bonzo - that is a brilliant idea. However, there is an operation in the area which provides Alternative to a Kennel, Holiday Care with a Host Family

http://www.animalsathome.co.uk/exeter/dogcare.php

Richard, there were dogs aplenty on the camping field. Some on leads attached to caravans. Would Benjamin be ok in this situation, especially if you have an awning for him to shelter in?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 07:05 AM

baby?
bath water? I am told there wasn't much of that in the early years of Sidders.

I wasn't part of the new guard that shocked the EFDSS of the 60's with it's new fangled ways and where are those newbies now?

Could they be the new old guard?
And as for yoof - "why can't they be like we were, perfect in every way, what's the matter with kids today?" as the song goes.

I am not a fan of the LNE and all that yoof excess but the Folk world and Sidmouth particularly is a conveyor belt with old fogies stepping off (or falling off) and new fogies coming on board with new fangled ideas and worst of all - they are being so young. Damn them. And talented in many cases. Double damn them.

There is only one thing certain in life - CHANGE.
and if you cite death - consider the change there!

It is the job of us oldies to tut, how else can yoof find what is worthwhile and be themselves?

I don't have to like all they do - but I would be less of a man if I couldn't quietly envy them.

And accept that to get yoof on board we have to meet them half way. My hope is that there are enough sessions and ceilidhs extant before my legs give up. (or my brain).

And can we expect that the ceilidh that doesn't happen in the ford will not happen this year too?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 07:53 AM

And to answer the OP's question. Nothings happened to Sidmouth, it's just evolved into a new era...you could always revert to the 1954 version...comfy shoes walkies dancing, and no singing at all. doubt if you'd get many ticket buyers. If you don't like the present version, and how it is organised, don't come. There are plenty of other festivals around the country. I'm sure there will be somewhere that you would enjoy. But, I think you are alone. I'm sure that Sidmouth will be a success again this year as it has been for decades.
As Mr Red says. You don't have to like it all......I personally avoid anything that says "Bodhran Workshop".....but I'm strange like that. Not being a singer, I never visit the Middle Bar, or indeed the Bedford. But, I'm glad that they are there. It wouldn't be Sidmouth without them.
And to finish. What other festival could/would put on a concert for Nic Jones with a stage full of noteable musicians and singers including Nic. 1000 people in the Ham, some of whom had been queuing for hours beforehand? And this year, they intend to re-create Peter Bellamys "Transports"
Whats not to like about people who have that sort of vision? And make it work?
Worth every penny. nd family friendly too. (That Andy Cutting nicked my pint once....I think he was 10...He hasn't done that badly has he?)


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Chris Porter
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 09:10 AM

Ah ... The Cresby has awoken! Mmm I think that some if not many, have got me and the point I was trying to make all wrong. I am not citing that the old days were any better as I have not made any comparisons with 1954 or otherwise. My comments were purely based upon my observation that there is a creeping towards bulk buying of artist's time which in turn leads to 'contrived' collaborations, not the spontaneous crazy stuff which used to happen. I just maintain that you cannot run a festival such as Sidmouth with its amazing reputation by using and re-using the same artists over a number of different formats. There is a danger that the perceived 'celeb' status of some artists seems to enable them to turn everything they touch into gold which in all honesty cannot be the case. We cannot lose sight that the ticket price is high enough without now having to compromise on the quality of what the offer is. I, along many others admire the creative work of artists such as Jon Boden, Jim Moray, Simon Care, Sam Sweeney, Eliza Carthy and many many others but just to offer them bookings for themed 'fun' events does no justice to their creative music which I would rather listen to.

The future does lie with the young and last weekends IVFDF was brilliant for just that reason, so I have no problems with youth focused events but you must also remember the more longer lasting artists who have many, many years of performance under their belts but who appear to be missing this year??

With regards to ceilidh bands, I did not intend to dismiss their music as non-creative. Indeed, it is their often wonderful creativeness which does indeed make them all different ... but some are more dancable than others ... I am sure you would agree?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 09:28 AM

Of course some ceilidh bands are more danceable than others, but that's not confined to the "big name" bands you seem to be demanding. But even danceability is a matter of taste - I think a lot of people might disagree with your dismissal of Tiger Moth.

As for collaborations, again these are part of what makes festivals different. I rather dislike those festivals where an artist drops in, does a single spot, and disappears. The great thing about festivals like Sidmouth is that the performers are often around for several days, doing different things (often appearing in informal sessions as well as programmed events) and getting a chance to play with other performers which otherwise may not arise. Of course, there's no guarantee that these collaborations will work, or even if they do that they will suit your tastes, but at a week-long festival offering hundreds of events isn't it worth taking a risk occasionally?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 10:47 AM

http://www.4shared.com/photo/meQr_Lky/dogs_Plaza_San_Martin.html

Dogs being looked after in Plaza San Martin, Buenos Aires!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Mark Stevens
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 11:28 AM

I can't be bothered with Sidmouth' anymore .. there's too many 'folkies' ...


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,mattkeen
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 12:25 PM

We have gone every year for the last few years but wont be going this year - just cancelled the holiday cottage let in Branscombe

Just very underwhelmed by the line up


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: johnadams
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 12:54 PM

mattkeen wrote:

Just very underwhelmed by the line up

Wow! And there was me thinking what a great and diverse line up was being put together. Just goes to show .... er... something.


Go for it Joanie! It's hard being an artistic director at the best of times and Sidmouth is a really difficult balancing act but I'm looking forward to my few days there (even if Old Swan can't hack it at the LNE!).

I want to see Genticorum (love quebecois), Freya:Abbott:Ferguson (great new album), Show of Hands (if just to see what Ms Cornish is always on about), my old faves Home Service, - and Anxo Lorenzo sounds like an act to check out!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 01:05 PM

An alternative perspective: open for discussion!

Discussion of folk dancing in the UK, including at Sidmouth.

By the way, nice to hear from you again Lizzie!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 01:11 PM

By the way, if Tiger Moth are even half as danceable as they were in 2004 they will be worth waiting for.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 01:33 PM

As I've suggested here, we need positive English (NOT British) nationalism - and the fact that the Welsh have just taken another step towards independence (re. setting laws, i.e.) may help a bit.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: BTNG
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 03:06 PM

"we need positive English (NOT British) nationalism"

no you don't.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 04:49 PM

wonder if this has anything to do with it ??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I9kyJ6ZYHw&feature=player_embedded


D


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 04:55 PM

Intrigued by the comment "The first Sidmouth festival in 2005" Well what the hell was I visiting since 1974? And I suppose all the photographs from the 50's and 60's are fakes too?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 04:57 PM

Oh, yes we do, BTNG: to help fight the good fight against the performance of Mowtown, disco, etc., at what was traditionally an English folk festival - with some guests performing the folk music and dance of their nations, as well...that's how it seemed when I enjoyed the BBC's (both radio and TV) 50th Sidmouth highlights, anyway.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 04:59 PM

A few years ago at Sidmouth there was a mechanism for 'fast-tracking' Dukes open-mike artists onto a concert platform at the Bulverton each day during the week ...

You mean something like the Danny Kyle open stage events at Celtic Connections?

I liked that when Danny was alive (it worked thanks to his infectious unpredictablity), but it rapidly turned into a promotional scheme for the RSAMD's production line after he'd gone. Not a mechanism I'd like to see adopted elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Sorcha
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:19 PM

So, Mr Porter and Ms Lizzie, if Sidmouth doesns't suit you, how about step up to the plate and DO something? As in volunteer to deal with something real?

Now, I know that as a Yank/Yooser, I shouldn't really comment, but this getting ridiculousl

Seems to ME that Ruth Archer/Joanie is doing a fab job. Either support her or offer to take over.

Like that will happen.

Put up or shut up comes to mind.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:23 PM

"West Country Cream-Guzzling Pasty Head" has potential as a t-shirt slogan.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Sorcha
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:29 PM

You jack off jadrool mamaluke dick weed with your head in your behind...(oh, sorry, just channelling Spaw there)

Go bug the BBC again whydontcha


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:29 PM

Here you go again WAV with another attempt to hijack a thread with your bizarre pronouncements about what should be allowed in England, the country of your birth if not your education.

The attitudes that show in your posts are so negative as to beggar belief.

For a number of years the Sidmouth Festival was named Sidmouth international Festival.

I had hoped you had reformed.

Stu


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:01 PM

>>> to help fight the good fight against the performance of Mowtown (sic), disco, etc., at what was traditionally an English folk festival - with some guests performing the folk music and dance of their nations,>>>as well...that's how it seemed when I enjoyed the BBC's (both radio and TV) 50th Sidmouth highlights, anyway

I hate to disillusion you WAV. The official title of the festival before the changes in 2005 (after the first 50 years)included the words "International Festival", if I recall and am correct. I only started attending in 1990 but to the best of my knowledge the content has never by any means been specifically and exclusively been English. Much as I love English traditional music and song, long may that remain so. As to the so-called "intrusion of Motown or disco" ... I think that may be precisely one event out of hundreds in a whole week - and it's for fun!

@Ralphie - Judging from the photos of you in Mr Schofield's book, I rather think that you were attending Sidmouth Festival. Interestingly enough, although I recall quite a bit of discussion at the time that Mrs Casey Music took over the reins of the festival from the EFDSS, I don't recall that anyone considered that that change of management and organisation made it a different and "new" beast then, did they?
I think it's called continuity .Sidmouth Festival is dead, long live Sidmouth Festival ???


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:02 PM

Stu - you just pipped me to the post while I was composing that!! LOL


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:10 PM

The official title of the festival before the changes in 2005 (after the first 50 years)included the words "International Festival", if I recall and am correct.

I don't think that's right, Surreysinger. I believe "Sidmouth International Festival" was a renaming by Steve Heap/Mrs Casey in 1986.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:25 PM

Errrmm ... ... yes? I think 1986 WAS before the changes in 2005 wasn't it? And it was the International Festival. I think that's what I said!!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:28 PM

Not sure why you are getting snappy Surreysinger. And please note you had said 2005 (after the first 50 years).


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:31 PM

Ah. perhaps I can see the confusion now... I'd read it one way and you meant another..


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:34 PM

Actually I wasn't being snappy - you really shouldn't read things into it which aren't there. I was actually mildly amused and bemused.

And I was referring to the fact that the changes in the festival occurred in 2005 after the first 50 years of the festival's existence - a fact that is unrelated to the festival's change of name. You misread it I'm afraid, although I will admit it was slightly clumsily worded. :-)


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:37 PM

By the way, if Tiger Moth are even half as danceable as they were in 2004 they will be worth waiting for.

Tiger Moth at Sidmouth LNE 2004: the evidence for the prosecution or defence, depending.

Can I be the first to say they're too loud?
    Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
    Thanks.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:39 PM

You're right about the dates Jon: the point I was making was that for many years it had made a virtue of its international character and appeal, with a wonderfully cosmopolitan programme in the Arena.

To return to the original post I think that the organisers should be congratulated on taking on a mammoth task and responsibility. Joan has responded in a measured way to explain her take on the running of a festival.

"In the Bulverton we have a programme that has tried to provide some of the international focus and flavour that the festival has become known for: hence Nidi d'Arac and Anxo Lorenzo. These are fantastic artists with international reputations. The Yiddish Twist Orchestra and Moishe's Bagel are great examples of what happens to international music when it comes to Britain and takes on new influences and styles." Well done for this Joan et al


Stu


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:43 PM

Jon - no problem! I see our posts crossed :-)


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:55 PM

Does it really matter when it might have changed it's name? It started as a mainly dance festival, in 1954, the year I was born. I remember hearing Packie Byrnes reminiscences of the first one (just a weekend IIRC) Over the next 53 years it has changed along with the world, and no doubt will continue to do so. I tend to agree with Sorcha. If people don't like it, get involved and change it, if you can. I know damn well that the planning for the next years festival starts on the monday morning after the last one finishes. From sorting out camp-site/lavatory problems, dealing with hiring marquees/PA requirements/dealing with the local council/Health and Safety concerns et al. It's like painting the bloody Forth Bridge....It never ends. Booking the artists is the least of the problems it seems to me. Providing the depth and variety of entertainment for 7 days in the height of summer is no easy task, and takes a lot of person hours to do. We as punters turn up with our own expectations, but, personally, I have never been dissapointed. For Gods sake, It'd Bloody Sidmouth! It's the same town as it was last year!!! Deal with it, or don't bother coming. I think it's just fine. And am looking forward to the events that will or maybe not! occur this August.
Surely even the most sceptical of punter can find just 1 event out of over 600 to interest them?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: johnadams
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 08:08 PM

wRalphie wRote:

I know damn well that the planning for the next years festival starts on the monday morning after the last one finishes.

Towards the end of his tenure, Steve Heap told me that the whole lead-in time for the festival was 18 months, presumably to get the big guests that he needed.

Deal with it, or don't bother coming. I think it's just fine.

Amen to that! See you there. My round I think....


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 10:40 PM

As I was the only one that questioned the information. I'll assume you were addressing me.

Does it really matter when it might have changed it's name?

I had misread Surrey singer but with my reading, yes I thought was worth correcting rather than perhaps have incorrect information perpetuated.

For Gods sake, It'd Bloody Sidmouth! It's the same town as it was last year!!! Deal with it, or don't bother coming. I think it's just fine. And am looking forward to the events that will or maybe not! occur this August.

????

Surely even the most sceptical of punter can find just 1 event out of over 600 to interest them?

A pub with a reasonable session is all I need and I gather there are a few of them... I don't get on with crowds though and fear Sidmouth would be too busy for me.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 01:24 AM

Mr Adams. Look forward to a beer and a tune in The Radway, sometime during the week!
GUEST Jon. There are quiet places in Sidmouth too. It's not all that frenetic really!
Us old people like a nice quiet time. I tend to avoid the Bulverton/LNE scene nowadays myself. The knees don't work as well as they used to.
For me, the two jewels in Sidmouths crown, are the Radway, and Volunteer sessions. For others it would be the Middle Bar, Bedford, Manor Pavilion. etc.
Thats the beauty of Sidmouth. Room for every one. 2 years ago, went to see Kepa Junkera in the Ham. sublime. back in the late 80's, managed to get Filarfolket and Trio UGB (both Swedish) booked by Steve Heap. I actually think that Sidmouth is just as international as it always was. It's just dropped the name tag.
Sidmouth is a nice little seaside town that hosts an interesting festival for one week a year. With a huge and diverse number of attractions for people of all ages....Looking forward to the next one!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,c.g.
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 03:28 AM

Back in 1972, when I first went, there were foreign dance teams. The song side was so small there were only a couple of venues.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 06:08 AM

Back in 1972 it was run by the EFDSS, wasn't it? I seem to recall that the Society's emphasis in those days (judging by the magazines) was heavily biassed in that direction. Things have changed over the years (even if they are no longer running the festival).


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 06:30 AM

Didn't financial problems with Sidmouth nearly bankrupt EFDSS?. Steve Heap and John Haden formed a company to run Sidmouth following that.

Stu


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,c.g.
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 07:20 AM

Or EFDSS was nearly bankrupt because of C# House, so was going to dump the Festival. That's a can of worms someone else can explain. The Festival was very different by then anyway. It changes over time. The current management appear to be successful. Long may it continue.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 07:23 AM

Hi s&r.
It's true that the Arena was the breaking point for the festival. If it was a sunny week, huge money could be made. (Day Trippers etc)
If it rained the whole week, the losses could have been massive. And after a couple of inclement years, the Arena was decided to be too much of a risk, financially.
And the cost of getting foreign artists over to the UK became untenable. Which is very sad. How deep are your pockets? It cost me 4 grand personally to bring Filarfolket to England for a week!
Worth every penny, but........
Theres no such thing as a free gig.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 07:30 AM

LNE?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,johnadams sans cookie
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 07:58 AM

LNE?

Late Night Extra - the after hours event of the festival for season ticket holders who don't think they've had enough partying.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 08:53 AM

Not a patch on the all nighters in the Balfour Arms though.
If you could get a ticket!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 09:35 AM

S. and S&R: you ignored that I'd recognised how Sidmouth had "some guests performing the folk music and dance of their nations, as well...that's how it seemed when I enjoyed the BBC's (both radio and TV) 50th Sidmouth highlights, anyway."...but, it also seemed, the majority of music performed over those years was indeed English folk - whatever it's full title or changes thereof.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: johnadams
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:59 AM

Ralphie,

All night sessions in the Balfour never happened - especially if enquired about by the local constabulary.

(Remembers 200+ people sitting in complete silence behind closed curtains while knowing local plods watched new to the area inspector sniffing around, sure that he'd heard a massive chorus drifting through the wee small hours a few minutes earlier!).


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 03:22 PM

It's hard to ignore your posts David = they;re so repetitive and predictable I almost khow them by heart.

"I know a song that'll get on your nerves..."


Stu


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 04:20 PM

I attend so many dance events that I get to hear a wide range of comments about Sidmouth (mainly how LUCKY I am to live here!) and these often influence my own views.

For what it is worth, IVFDF was mentioned somewhere recently on this thread - it was indeed well worth attending. The ceilidh with The Molecatchers and Tony Slinger calling (both were new to me) was simply fabulous. Lots of young women to dance with (most of them superb dancers too), adequate space in which to dance, wonderful music (and not at all too loud, just perfect) and excellent calling. I made a point to go up to the band and caller and tell how fantastic I thought they had been - so I do give out praise when it is due!

I thought on the long drive home - if only Sidmouth FolkWeek could host ceilidhs like that!! The Survivors' ceilidh at IVFDF was almost as good - great music, not too loud, good dancers, enough space, mainly good calling.

I avoided the Tickled Pink event completely - they are always too loud. Mind you, they were in Exeter recently and the first half was really very good - and bearable without earplugs. But the second half was true TP - so bloody loud that you wanted to get away from the speakers even with ear plugs in. I asked some youngsters afterwards - do you like it so loud? Oh yes they said, it was GREAT but "my ears are ringing".

So there you are - possible permanent hearing damage and all because ego-inflated nonentities are in charge of the sound desk. IS ANYONE LISTENING ABOUT THE SOUND LEVELS AT SIDMOUTH OR ARE YOU ALL DEAF??

A very interesting thread, so thank you to whoever started it.

My detailed comments about dance at Sidmouth are all on my website - for when you have an hour or two to spare.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,mattkeen
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 04:25 PM

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: johnadams
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 12:54 PM

mattkeen wrote:

Just very underwhelmed by the line up

Wow! And there was me thinking what a great and diverse line up was being put together. Just goes to show .... er... something.


Go for it Joanie! It's hard being an artistic director at the best of times and Sidmouth is a really difficult balancing act but I'm looking forward to my few days there (even if Old Swan can't hack it at the LNE!).

I want to see Genticorum (love quebecois), Freya:Abbott:Ferguson (great new album), Show of Hands (if just to see what Ms Cornish is always on about), my old faves Home Service, - and Anxo Lorenzo sounds like an act to check out!




Thanks John but 5 possibles (well 3.5 really as am not interested in SOH again and not particularly Home Service) is not enough. Others should be fun though but not enough

Towersey here we come


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 04:55 PM

Message to Steve in Sidmouth.
As one of the "ego inflated non entities in charge of a sound desk" I would invite you to give it a try sometime.
This "ego inflated non entity" has not only done 100s of gigs, but also spent over 30 years broadcasting on national radio.
I think that your comment is not only misplaced. but downright insulting.
So Steve. get yourself a PA rig....Spend hours rigging and de-rigging it, get a perfect sound, and get to bed at 4 in the morning, and then tell us "ego inflated non-entities" what we are doing wrong. Until then, your opinion is pointless.
I would urge you to check the "Don't Piss Off the Sound Guy" group on Facebook. Some real truths on there


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 05:18 PM

Ralphie - I remember when good sound reinforcement was conspicuous by its apparent absence... and also when various friends of mine were scouring Sidmouth for Bose speakers to boost the sound reinforcement for the River Hymn in the arena....

Kitty
xx


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Ann N
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 06:05 PM

The last time I went to Sidmouth was in the 70's .... lots of Morris sides in the streets enjoying themselves and making everyone happy ... nuff said ..


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 06:16 PM

"It's hard to ignore your posts David = they're so repetitive and predictable I almost khow them by heart."

I don't even know this Walkaboutsverse and already I find him dullingly repetitive. Let's just say this, England became multicutural a very long time ago and for all the whining to the contrary, it will always be so, David...and Motown at Sidmouth? I don't bloody think so, unless you call Bellowhead, Motown unplugged.
Good Luck, Joanie and staff and volunteers, with this year's festival, and as Ralphie says, it's alot of hard work, and those that harp and criticize need to remember that.

BTNG


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 06:22 PM

How surprising that some sound engineers can do a wonderful job in a difficult venue and others (and some bands) can be relied on to produce sound that is quite simply TOO LOUD. Too difficult to understand? I do have a small PA rig by the way. I rescued it from a skip and mended the electronics!

The point about competent sound engineering is that you don't notice it - the sound is just right, volume, mix of frequencies etc.

I make a point of praising bands and engineers when I consider it is due and criticising when the dolts produce sound so loud it is painful and in halls where I know perfectly well that more competent people can get it just right.

My comments stand.

Sidmouth just seems to have a particlar problem.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: johnadams
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 07:18 PM

- @mattkeen


Matt, I entirely understand if the whole programme doesn't float your boat enough to shell out the considerable brass - I feel the same about many festival bills that I see advertised. I just felt that this one showed some imagination while also appealing to the more conservative festival goers who like to see some acts they know (or even acts they used to know revived, instead of propped up in a bus queue somewhere).


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 08:03 PM

Kitty,
My point exactly. Transparency is all important in the PA Dept
Sidmouth Steve.
Off you go then, You go and try to do Live sound...Invest many thousands of pounds in equipment and the vehicles to get it to gigs, learn how to use it, spend most of your waking hours transporting/rigging/sound checking/de-rigging/driving home etc etc.
Then you would have earned the right to criticise others.
Until you do all those things. You have no right whatsoever to pour scorn on the endeavours of others.
If you don't like something, do something else.
It's really not that difficult.

There are parts of Sidmouth (and other festivals) that don't float my boat. I just go to the bits that I enjoy!
If it happens to be a loud band. Then I'll go along,
Or an unnacompied singer,
I will never criticise a sound crew though....It's a bloody difficult and thankless job. You should try it sometime, before you pontificate on here.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 12:58 AM

It has come to my attention that "Steve Thomas" and "Chris Porter" appear to be the same person, and my data verifies this - or at least it's two people posting from the same location. Please remember that name-switching is not allowed at Mudcat, because it betrays the trust of the community.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 03:11 AM

Thank you, Joe - and as I pointed out on the other Sidmouth thread, there is no one called "Chris Porter" on our customer database, despite his claims of having attended the festival for the past 37 years. It would appear I was taken in by a troll. Sorry, folks.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 04:57 AM

It is not at all necessary to be a PA engineer to criticise an outcome that is clearly and manifestly damaging. Do you need to be a banker to criticise their herd behaviour, knowing the outcomes?

Take the recent Tickled Pink ceilidh in Exeter. The first half was OK - sound level bearable if a little on the loud side, so it was perfectly within the abilities of the engineer and his equipment to produce a comfortable level. But in the second half we get ear-damage levels. WHY? Just because he and/or the band decided to do so. Quite simple never to have turned it up. There is such a thing as a master volume control although (of course) it's not as simple as just turning it down. You'd need to rebalance because of the non-linear response of the ear to different frequencies as the overall sound level changes.

Like I said, Sidmouth just seems to have a particular problem and maybe it's the obsession with attracting 'yoof' - it certainly has had the effect of decreasing the number of full price season tickets sold to dance oriented people.

But I didn't expect a rational debate on here!

If Joe Offer could confirm that none of my posts come from the same IP as those from the two other people that would be neat! But of course, it is possible to disguise the source by using proxy and masking servers - I even refer to these in my article on folk dance clubs!

In all the NOISE you might have forgotten the link - here it is again.

discussion of folk dance clubs, dance at Sidmouth etc.
    Confirmed. -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:48 AM

I have never had problems with the sound at Sidmouth.

At other festivals possibly. But it is rarely the fault of the engineer, usually the band wants it that loud. Put yourself in the place of the engineer. The band wants it turned up. You are simply a minion operating the equipment. Now what do you do?

Incidentally when Tickled Pink went for acceptable to too loud did that not need rebalancing?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 07:36 AM

Who'd be a bloody sound engineer Eh? Damned if you do, damned if you don't,
Did the reunion gig last week for the Electropathics in Poynton. because of the length of the hall, It was too quiet at the back! Yes, I could have installed extra speakers with all the delay lines/amps and cabling needed, but the gear wouldn't have fitted in a Nissan Micra.
The recording is really rather good, and the audience seemed to enjoy it.
I would just suggest again to the critics like Steve, or whatever other persona you are inhabiting at the moment...You bloody well do it. a 14 hour day, hours of driving, no breaks. no food. trying desperately to get the bands equipment to work. All for 30 quid.
And you get the delight of the Derig....Deep Joy!.
Go on....You do it. I'm getting angry now, How dare you, who knows nothing, criticise people who spend their lives crawling around finding dodgy buzzy cables, normally in the dark, and the gig is supposed to start in 5 minutes. And then you get a pompous git, coming up and saying half way through that "It's not as good as the album."
Sorry for the rant. But I get really annoyed sometimes with the lack of awareness of audiences. You bloody try it....I'll come and laugh.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,mattkeen
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 09:30 AM

I have always found the sound at Sidmouth to be very very good.

Ralph is an excellent sound man with the track record to prove


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,mattkeen
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 09:32 AM

....it

(Sorry)


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Deaf R's
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 12:39 PM

Who'ld be a sound engineer?

Someone who doesn't mind their hearing suffering and can't tell it has.

You want names of hearing impaired sound engineers?

Ah! MAybe they would like being named, they are in denial. Maybe some are lucky and chose their parents well. Or maybe they just turn up the volume and say "problem, what problem?"

Who knows? The guy with the sound meter. 108 db at the sound desk, 118 at the stage and the legal limit (for staff including stewards but not audience!) 98 db - and the difference? about 8 times the power (ish). Ask me where it was measured and I will tell you. TP were on stage though.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 04:25 PM

I have been thinking for some time that a sound meter might be a good idea. There has been some recent Press comment about youngsters having their hearing permanently damaged through visiting loud 'rock' concerts (I use the term 'rock' loosely).

Having young children in these venues surely constitutes child abuse? I've seen them placed near the speakers while mummy dances the night away! In contrast to the nonsense H&S issues that I've known local councils and the police expend time on - here is a serious issue.

It is certainly true that the location of measurement is important. The sound desk can be some distance from speakers and some distance from where dancers need to be (even if they didn't start the dance near the speakers). So the logical place for the legal maximum is a location where people may need to be even if they didn't start out there. I saw sound level meters at Bulverton some years ago - on the sound desk maybe 5 or 7 metres from the nearest speakers.

Time for a few measurments maybe?

Any advice anyone can give re: the legal framework for this would be appreciated. Do the maxima in these venues apply only to 'workers' (including stewards? My friends and I (all good dancers) are becoming rather tired of having to select ceilidhs on the basis of which might not be too loud for any sane person to enjoy.

I can well recall (and it is somewhere on my website) the morons from East Devon District Council who measured sound levels in the winter along the A3052 (when there was no traffic) in order to extrapolate these to peak summer conditions. I can even recall walking past one of these dolts sitting in a garden - I asked him what he was doing - SHHHH he said - we're measuring sound levels of the road. Not a car in sight mind.

Morons? Yep. Science graduates? Yep.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 04:28 PM

Well....I'm 56 years old 33 of them at the BBC, and have done some of the loudest stadium gigs known....Heavy Metal et al. Just before I retired, I had the annual hearing check (BBC health and safety rules)
20/20....No problem.
So your point being?
You really don't like Tickled Pink do you?
I think they are rather quiet compared to Napalm Death, or Melt Banana....or Motorhead Now they are REALLY scary, volume wise.
I think you should get over your prejudice, and indeed get a life.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 04:47 PM

Now a Motorhead ceilidh could be fun :-)


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:03 PM

"England became multicutural a very long time ago and for all the whining to the contrary, it will always be so, David" (BTNG): one of the few things I agree with David Cameron on is that "state multiculturalism has failed"; and one of many things I disagree with Tony Blair, from Scotland, on is that "we don't want a return of English nationalism" - we do BUT without imperialism, this time; and we do want a large portion of (un-Americanised) English folk at our festivals - with some guests performing the folk music of their nations (as before).

When people lose their own culture, society suffers; or in verse - http://walkaboutsverse.webs.com/#209


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:26 PM

Since you are clearly a knowledgeable man Walkabout with opinions based on fact rather than the Daily Mail, which festivals have you been to in the past few years and in particular how many Sidmouth Festivals?

Last year I was at Sidmouth and went to the Travellers concert, the Yorkshire concert, Nic Jones, Roy Bailey and never a foreigner in sight. Previous years have been different of course.

Which ones did you go to?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 06:06 PM

Tickled Pink at a sane volume were quite enjoyable at a recent Exeter ceilidh. Their recent interview by Joan Crump in EDS made clear they like to be known as the loudest - so hence they are, for me, confirmed as generally one to be avoided.

Others I avoid because the music is just not very danceable. I could give you an opinion on Toothless Mary but you'd get annoyed about that too. Florida I avoid because they do jazz (simply don't like it, matter of choice) and they are rather loud too.

Musical tastes differ, but levels of sound sufficient to cause hearing damage are more a matter for some effective regulation. There are precedents of course for protecting people from their own stupidity - crash helmets for example, discouraging smoking, but the State should not interfere too much.

Just seems a pity to me (and others) that Sidmouth has moved so far away from danceable ceilidhs and towards what I would term just a bloody loud noise in overcrowded venues. Just too much emphasis on yoof as the target market, but here we are going over old ground.

It occurred to me recently why I enjoyed the recent IVFDF ceilidhs so much (excluding TP of course) - excellent sound and yet you could still talk to people in the hall. Quite a novelty. Maybe Sidmouth should try it - break new ground, be innovative. A ceilidh used to be an event for dancing and talking to people after all! It would have to be marketed as trendy of course.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 06:23 PM

>>Motorhead Now they are REALLY scary, volume wise.

Having sat through half a Motorhead gig at the Meltdown Festival at the Royal Festival Hall a couple of years ago (freebie tickets as a result of performing in a gig just before them that night) I will agree with that . Two numbers in (after volumes well in excess of Tickled Pink levels), Lemmy got the house lights up and enquired if it was loud enough. The headbangers decided it wasn't and the whole thing got cranked up 100%. As a result not only the floor and the walls were vibrating, but every single organ in my body. I couldn't hear when I left the hall half way through, and had problems for the next few days! Now, having sat through a Tickled Pink evening at Godalming a couple of years or so before that I have to say that they are pussy cats by comparison .. I had no hearing problems on the way home!

As to a Motorhead ceilidh - I think I might pass on that one.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 06:39 PM

David. Do stop hijacking threads to push your own agenda. When you say 'we don't want...yada yada yada..." you don't speak for anyone except perhaps the English National Party.

Listening to the BBC is not quite experiencing a festival...

Stu


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 04:44 AM

@ Stu.

You mean he hasn't been to Sidmouth. Well I never.

Reminds me of a concert at Sidmouth last year. Derek Schofield said summing up a mudcat discussion:

"Those who weren't there thought it was poor, and those who were there thought it was great".


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 05:50 AM

Dave. Absolutely right.
Those who know nothing, and worse have never attended an event, are the worst critics. Those that role up their sleeves, get involved, and actually create the festival, sometimes voluntarily, know exactly how much hard work is involved. from the artistic director, to the camp site wardens. All of whom are equally important.
I just get really annoyed when people who commit nothing to what is, you have to admit, an enourmous undertaking, with all the financial risks involved, turn round and say "you're doing it wrong" OK then...Go out there and do your own festival. And if you don't like one particular festival. bugger off and go to another. There are still plenty of them around...although a couple have bit the dust this year.
Sidmouth survives because a lot of people go to it. and pay good money to be entertained. And. Blimey, most come back every year as well!
The contributors to this thread who criticise and carp, go somewhere else then. You won't be missed I promise you.
Ralph (the moronic cloth-eared sound engineer who works at the festival for nothing) Jordan


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 06:10 AM

That was probably the most illogical comment to date.

I've been a steward for several years, I attend many festivals, paying to go to most of them. I've just booked five! Either as a casual punter, as a steward or as a paying season ticket holder I and anyone else is entitled to express an opinion. The internet just makes it easier to share views.

If you'd bothered to read my website (tedious in places I know) it commends the festival management for having brought Sidmouth back to life after the final Steve Heap year.

But that doesn't mean there are some things that I (and many others) think could be done better or differently.

Presumably, you'd take the view that as you've never been a banker earning (?) £3 million a year you have no right to comment on how they do their jobs, or on the consequences of a particular mode of operation or set of values?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 06:11 AM

Ralph[ good concertina player]Jordan


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 06:18 AM

Am I the only one (probably) who finds this repetitive characterisation of younger people as "yoof" derogatory and ageist, not to mention irritating? Perhaps it's a positive thing that old wrinklies aren't being granted a complete monopoly in folk festivals and that some consideration is being given to younger audiences who might also be interested in sharing in this music. Does folk and traditional music only belong to coffin dodgers? Because if so, then audiences for folk and traditional music will be likely dry up rather swiftly in the not too distant future, which might be a shame?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 06:25 AM

Nothing wrong with the young people at IVFDF - delightful and splendid dancers. Not a drunken layabout in sight - not that I saw anyway.

To return to our esteemed sound engineer and his suggestion that people should go elsewhere if they don't like what is on offer, this reminded me of the Britain in Bloomers in Sidmouth who tried to tell me which types of plants I should grow in my own garden - and that if I didn't like their views I should leave town - they even wrote a letter to the newspaper to say I should leave!!

Didn't do them much good though - it just got Britain in Bloom more unwelcome publicity than it had ever had before, except perhaps from Sir Roy Strong.

wild gardening - in the years before it became acceptable

It's a very old section of my website, probably half the links no longer work. Too much else to do.....


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 06:27 AM

I dont know about Motorhead ceilidhs, but I reckon mortorbike ceilidhs might be fun.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 06:39 AM

lively...Hear hear! as someone approaching his dotage, It's great to see events being arranged for younger people. The work that Laurel Swift and many others do, with Shooting Roots and other events has been inspirational over many years. Long may it continue.
As for this Steve/Chris Porter bloke (or whatever he's calling himself today...Yes, you have been rumbled) I totally agree with Brian Peters who earlier said, "Why start a thread with this title, if it's not going to be construed as having a pop"
I don't know what your agenda is, but, you obviously don't approve of how the festival is run.
Sorry mate. Thats your problem. Don't see many others agreeing with you.
If you have a problem with any aspect of the running of any festival, take it up with the organisers directly. Joan has made it perfectly clear how she can be contacted provately. Spleen venting on a public forum doesn't really help, unless it's just an ego trip....
That's just my opinion BTW


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 07:22 AM

Spleen venting on a public forum

Don't vent me, Ralphie! It really, really hurts! Ouch! No! Stopppit! Gerroff!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 07:54 AM

Mr Cringe...
Stop taking it personally!
I'm dealing with wankers here....Go away!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Folknacious
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 09:05 AM

I'm dealing with wankers here....Go away!

Thank you Mr Ralphie sir for improving my lunch break, even if I now have to remove the coffee spray from my monitor. Yes, what a lot of them. Is there a collective noun?

I'm entirely with you on the beleif that rather than sitting on bums and moaning, people should go out and do something positive, including learning what they're talking about. How many of the anti-Sidmouth and Heap/Crumpbashers on here have actually run a festival, including taking the financial responsibility for it. Sitting at home playing "Fantasy Festival Bills" is no substitute.

And next time our top moaner thinks a band is "too loud" - before you take this advice and toddle off and start a ceilidh series for shrinking violets, try looking at the hundreds of people enjoying dancing to the "loud" band and try to work out what you and your minority handful of miserable git cronies are missing. Also try accepting the radical idea that people are allowed to have different tastes and not everything can be done your way all the time.

One of the reasons the 60's English folk scene (and 70's punk that followed it) took off and enjoyed such big growths was that people found they weren't being catered for by the establishment so they went off and started their own clubs, bands, fanzines and so on, rather than sitting around moaning. Some learned how to do it very well.

What's the expression, "put up or shut up"?

Yes Ralphie, w***ers!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 09:21 AM

So far, Folkiedave, I've only attended festivals in N.E. England (all folk - exept Newcastle's Green Festival, where I, myself, performed a self-penned folk song and folk-poetry, as an amateur), reachable by public transport, on a Saturday - the list is on this page, if you wish to check.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 10:10 AM

Lemme see. At Whitby there are about four Irish sessions going on simultaneously every night, and the Middle Earth has people doing anything from country to calypso to klezmer. Not an ideal place for a Little Englander. Heck, last year they even had Martin Wyndham-Read doing Australian stuff most of the week.

So does the North-East have any ethnically pure festivals that would meet WAV's requirements? If so please let me know so I can avoid them.

(BTW I think Whitby oughta book Jani Lang's band. It's not too far for them to come, Hungarian dance is easy to pick up, and their caller is terrific).


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 10:14 AM

I, myself, performed a self-penned folk song

Discuss. Ad nauseam.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ebor_fiddler
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 10:20 AM

As far as I'm concerned, as another Northerner, the only thing wrong with Sidmouth is that it's too far away for me to access easily. I managed to get the year before last and I was blown away by the dance facilities. The only stuff of a like class raound here is the Ryburn Threestep programme - and that's forty miles away. Mind, the eighty mile round trip is worth it! Is there any chance of loosing Sidmouth, towing it through the Dover Strait and anchoring it somewhere off Spurn Point?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 10:30 AM

Folknacious...
Thank You so much...I thought I was going mad dealing with these fools. Only you and Dave Eyre jumped into the pond!
You don't know just how much I agree with you.
I so wish that I could see these near do wells try and run a feastival, from bogs to concerts...and everything in between, campaing, catering, security, dealing with the local police, council, not a job I would attempt!
Thank you for your support!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 10:55 AM

From: VirginiaTam - "Even if you only fringe, no one can deny that some of those sessions are made more special by the dropping in of "big time" artists."

Ah, yes. I treasure the memory of wandering round into a back room in the Bedford round midnight after the close of the day's formal concerts. Sat down next to John Tams and Barry Coope to hear fiddles,   boxes & co start on Foul Weather Call and probably the Morpeth Rant, etc. Fi Fraser leading, probably her sister and some Stradlings. Just so damn' good - spirited, loud and precise. Great.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 11:28 AM

We could actually do something useful here folks!

I hope Joan/Ruth is listening.......

In my post of this date:

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Steve in Sidmouth - PM
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 04:57 AM


I asked Joe Offer to confirm that none of my posts came from the same IP address(es) as those from 'Chris Porter' or Steve Thomas' or whatever names he/she/they used on Mudcat.

JOE OFFER HAS CONFIRMED THIS - see his comment in red below my post.

Now, most of you techie people will know that IP numbers are rotated and randomly associated at each computer/router switch-on. This is (in part) to help prevent 'sniffer' programs targetting a specific PC and was standard during the days of dial-up modems in the UK. Broadband connections seemed to be PC specific for a time but are now roaming albeit within the allocated block.

So I doubt very much if the IP numbers recorded against ALL the posts from 'Chris Porter' (et al) were the same - unless his/their computer(s) were switched on all the time so maintaining the connection OR they were using a dedicated IP address which would imply a large organisation rather than a home based typical broadband PC connection.

I have logged the IP connection I am using at the moment - (different from the one yesterday but the first few digits are the same as you would expect).

    Sorry, Steve. I've gone as far as I feel comfortable going. It's better for us to keep people guessing about what we know and what we don't know. Identity manipulation is a problem at Mudcat. For me to say more, wouldn't be helpful to Mudcat's interests.
    -Joe Offer-

So, would Joe Offer like to send me an email (to my registered address on hotmail.com) confirming what he thinks the IP is I am using now, and I'll say if he's got it right.

Then, if he would care to divulge the IP address(es) used by 'Chris Porter' (et al) we could have some fun trying to locate he/she/them. Probably not possible unless you were the police but interesting to plough through the databases nonetheless.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 11:33 AM

Sorry, I think I must be missing the point here. From what some people have written, it seems that every year they are ambushed by the Sidmouth organisers, taken to the festival against their wills and tortured and robbed.

I think it should be pointed out that Sidmouth – or any festival for that matter – is not compulsory. If you don't like it, for whatever reason, don't go.

I like the idea of Sidmouth but as it's too far and too expensive I go to festivals that are cheaper and more convenient – festivals that I know I'm going to enjoy! I've only ever been to one festival that I didn't like and that was Towersey so, hey, guess what? Yup, I haven't been again. It really is that simple.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 11:53 AM

So far, Folkiedave, I've only attended festivals in N.E. England

But you feel free to comment on others that you have not been to, to comment on their cultural nature etc. etc.....

Wow!! I wished I was that clever.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 12:45 PM

"ethnically pure festivals that would meet WAV's requirements" (Jack)...twice above I gave my opinion that, at English folk festivals, e.g., it's good to have (along with a large portion of English folk) SOME GUESTS PERFORM THE FOLK MUSIC AND DANCE OF THEIR NATIONS - as I know happened at Sidmouth, via (as mentioned above) the 50th Sidmouth BBC highlighs - even without having actually attended one, Folkiedave. Admittedly, what has happened at Sidmouths since I can only fathom from websites, such as the one we are on now.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 12:47 PM

There isn't much I can add to this discussion, but for what it's worth here's my two penn'orth.

In the last decade and a half, I've attended six Sidmouth Folk Weeks. On every programme, there were many events I probably wouldn't have enjoyed. But that didn't trouble me in the least, as there were so many that I did want to attend. The biggest problem was always choosing between two (or more)equally desirable things happening at the same time.

As if that weren't enough, Sidmouth also provided many unexpected bonuses … informal sessions and sing-arounds that were pure magic … workshops I was drawn into by casual curiosity and walked out of with helpful ideas … chance encounters with acquaintances I hadn't seen for years … and much more besides.

So, barring accidents, I'll be back this summer for another week. And it goes without saying that I'm grateful to the good people who put in so much hard work to make it all happen. But although it goes without saying, I'll say it anyway.

Thank You Very Much!

However, that doesn't mean that the festival is so perfect that it's beyond criticism. Admittedly, some of the feedback on this thread has been peevish and small-minded, and I sympathise with members of the Sidmouth team who feel tempted to say "if you don't like our festival, try organising your own". But some critics do have a valid point – particularly on the issue of noise levels.

Whether any band is aesthetically "good" or "bad" is a subjective matter. But whether or not a band is loud enough to damage the hearing of the audience (and of the musicians) is an objective question. To answer it there are measuring instruments, and health and safety guidelines.

Saying "if you're not a professional sound engineer, you don't have a right to complain" is not an adequate answer. Excessive noise may not be as lethal as passive smoking, but it can still do us serious harm - ask Pete Townsend. So, I would suggest that the festival team keep this matter under review. Meanwhile, I would advise the principal antagonists to calm down a bit, and maybe have a (quiet) pint or two.

Wassail!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 01:13 PM

Thank you for that!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 01:33 PM

A couple of points, and then i will disappear again.


"I sympathise with members of the Sidmouth team who feel tempted to say 'if you don't like our festival, try organising your own'. But some critics do have a valid point – particularly on the issue of noise levels."

Hi Mike,

I believe Ralph, in his heated defense of the festival, was speaking for himself as an individual. He was not speaking on behalf of the festival, or in fact our technical team.



"Whether any band is aesthetically "good" or "bad" is a subjective matter. But whether or not a band is loud enough to damage the hearing of the audience (and of the musicians) is an objective question. To answer it there are measuring instruments, and health and safety guidelines."

This is absolutely true. There is also the issue of venue licencing, which the festival takes extremely seriously. We have strict sound limits imposed by the council and we DO NOT exceed them. Our Technical Director can be found most nights in or around the Bulverton with a sound meter, or sitting in his car at various locations nearby, checking sound levels. We have neighbours who are very sensitive to noise infringements, which is another reason for the vigilance. The local authority is extremely careful about excessive noise, and we would not want to jeopardise our currently excellent relationship with either them or the local community by flouting the sound limits. In fact, Silent Disco as an event was first staged in 2009 in order to help us work within the strict local noise restrictions on Sunday nights.

I hope this is helpful.


Joan Crump


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 01:42 PM

The problem is that one specific person keeps creating detractor threads or weighing in negatively on threads about Sidmouth folk week. It has become pretty clear that he has a very significant chip on his shoulder.

To me (last year was my first Sidmouth) this negativity is tiring but it won't change my opinion of the festival. I think it is wonderful. However, the negativity could be off putting to potential newbies on this forum who may be trying to find out about the festival.

As Ruth has repeatedly pointed out. Feed your concerns and observations through the proper channels and stop dissing everything here where it does the most damage and least good.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 01:50 PM

But then no-one would see you!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 02:18 PM

Just to confirm Ruths statement, I was indeed speaking as a mere functionary, and not representing the views of the Sidmouth management...I'm not part of that side of the festival...I get asked to help out with PA, because they know me, and I'm useful... My gripe is with people out there who with no good reason brand me, and other volunteers who work at Sidmouth (and indeed other festivals) as " Morons" It's unpleasant and insulting to a group of very hard working people who give up their time voluntarily to provide a service for the smooth running of the festival.
Anyway, If you want it quiet, Sidmouth provides the only Silent Ceilidh around...You won't get quieter than that.
Mu views are mine and mine alone. Am still waiting for an apology from various posters, who really should avoid me this summer. Even Morons have long memories.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 02:21 PM

Folknacious - I think the collective noun is "bunch", on the basis that the collective noun for bankers is "wunch"....

Kitty


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 02:28 PM

And specifically to Mike of Northumbria. (of whom I have read good stuff from in the past)
Doing PA is called balancing for a reason....If you've got a ridiculously noisy drummer or an enourmous guitar rig, then what can you do except blance evryone else in the band so that it's "balanced".
I did a ceilidh once, won't mention the bands name, and had people complaining that the drummer was too loud.....Even when I pointed out that all the drum mics were faded out, for exactly the same reason...I still got the blame!
"Turn the drums down" They'd cry...Well give me a 12 bore and I'll solve your problem.. !
Sometimes you just have to go with the situation, but, I maintain that until you've tried to do it yourself, you will never understand the amount of hassles that sound crews have to go through, both from the band and also the audience...
I refer you once again to the Facebook group "Don't Piss Off The Sound Guy"


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 02:28 PM

...ceilis in Ireland, ceilidhs in Scotland, and English country dances in England.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 02:35 PM

I have an idea... since guest Chris Porter the OP has not returned to the thread since he was outed by Joe Offer, why not just let this thread die a natural death?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Selby
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 02:43 PM

is not the point in all this that the oranisers of Sidmouth who like every organiser of every festival have my undying admeration. organise a festival. if you want to go, you pay the price, they ask if you dont want to do that don't go. if you like the guest list go if you dont then dont but please stop whinging and i have never been to sidmouth


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 02:46 PM

Here is just one of pages an pages of stuff from the Facebook group. Mainly US but situations I have witnessed over here.

(American Contributor)
I have four pet hates.

1. "I want an SM58". No, trust me, my AKGs are loads better for most singers. I even carry a fake SM58 that sounds like shit so I can put it up to prove my point to the expert vocalist. When it's the drummer wants an SM58 in his kick drum rather than my Beta52 I get quite cross.
2. "I want kick drum in the monitors". No you don't. You are standing right by the drumkit. Moreover, most monitors don't have the LF to reproduce kick drum anyway, all you are going to do is add distortion and probably rip the little 10" speaker (even if it is a 500 watt one) off its suspension.
3. "Can the monitors go any louder?" Sister, you have got over 2 kilowatts in the monitors. That's more than Hawkwind used to use in the 70s. You could of course persuade the guitarists to sober up and use a setting other than 11 or put some mid back in their amps or if all else fails use a powerbrake.

Then of course the guitarist who noodles at 11 while you a re trying to coax the singer to open their gob during soundcheck so you can get ANY idea what settings the singer needs. I used to carry a 2 inch baulk of timber labelled "Nathan" for such occasions. I once worked with a guitarist called "Nathan".

I'm definitely going to order some T shirts for this year that'll say.
"We're Not Happy, til You're Not Happy."


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 02:52 PM

Guest Selby..
You should pop down this August...It's really a lovely little festival! Run by reasonable and decent people. You can even get an ice-cream!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 02:57 PM

WAV old son. Just leave it. Nobody is listening to you and your views.
Why on earth you're posting on a Sidmouth thread, when you've never been to one in your life, is slightly odd anyway...


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,selby
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 03:15 PM

Ralphie
Did whitby for 25+ years and then fancied a change so now do shrewsbury instead Sidmouth has never appealed to me sorry!!!!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 04:09 PM

Hi Selby (whowever you are...No probs!)
We probably have crossed swords over the years. A High 5 to you for Whitby/Shrewsbury/wherever this year.
Ain'y got the cash to do much other than Sidmouth. The days of doing favours for friends are long gone for me.
I'll do Sidmouth, as it is my summer holiday. Don't expect to be paid. but, will work for the week.
Can't really afford to go anywhere else though.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 06:58 PM

Start a new thread David instead of attempting to proselytize the world on every thread and website.

Love you, hate your posts

Stu


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Trevor Thomas
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 07:10 AM

Hello, I'm a tedious old giffer who likes to spout off on the Internet.

I'd like to complain in the strongest possible terms that a major folk festival seems to have been programmed without my personal preferences being taken into consideration.

I have heard that this year, the way the concession stands have been 'organised' leaves much to be desired. Much of the clothing is made in sizes larger or smaller than mine, and there were many shoe sizes available other than a size 9, which is the size I have worn at festivals for 37 years!

As I was one of the people who invented folk music 37 years ago with Ewan McColl in the Princess Louise, I know better than everyone else what should go on at these so-called festivals. It should be entirely stuff I like, and nothing else.

I understand some of the acts have been booked might appeal to people under 40, who I can't abide, ('yoof', I wittily call them), and some of the acts themselves also contain people under the age of 40. Can't we have separate children's events for these annoying squirts?

And although the event in question isn't until the summer, I'd already like to complain that it's too loud. I like to get in early with these things.

Music, especially dance music, should be as quiet as possible so that more people can listen to me telling them how bad it all is, how much better it was in the old days, and why I should be in charge of everything.

Sound engineers are all incompetent morons. I know this because I once found a PA in a skip, so I know what I'm talking about..

Most annoying of all is that there's always several events on at once, so it's difficult for me to decide which one I'll dislike the most, so I can go to that.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 07:23 AM

"there were many shoe sizes available other than a size 9, which is the size I have worn at festivals for 37 years!"

Shocking, simply shocking! Don't these 'yoof' who are currently turning folk festivals into debauched raves, even know how to have feet a traditional size either?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 08:53 AM

I was just wondering why no one replied to me email regarding my enquiry about trading?

sal


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,JM
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 09:20 AM

Is this the right time to link to this revealing piece of documentary footage again?

a fly-on-the-wall film, recorded in the scout hut at the end of last years festival


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 10:05 AM

There we go again with "ceilidh/ceili" (JM)...

'ENGLISH CEILIDHS?
My, English, late-godmother told me that, at school, whilst one or two Scottish dances were learnt, at least 90% of their dancing was English Country Dance; a "ceilidh" is a Scottish folk-gathering/a "ceili" an Irish one' (here).


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 10:33 AM

So what? Unlike you, David, I play in a CEILIDH band, and I can tell you that - origins aside - it's now a general term in use for a social dance, often with food, drink and chat. We play in the south-east of England - English, Irish and Scottish tunes - jigs, reels, hornpipes - and have a large and enthusiastic following. A large and enthusiastic following who have a whale of a time and don't actually give a toss whether they're at a ceilidh, a ceili, a barn dance, a country dance or just a bash. The emphasis is on fun, not political correctness or misplaced nationalism, and we choose the tunes because they're bloody good tunes to dance to.

Get a life and stop pocking these threads with your own personal brand of funnel vision.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 10:59 AM

Ralphie,

Sorry, but you seem to have misunderstood the point I was trying to make in my last post. I had no intention of dissing you in particular or sound engineers in general. I certainly couldn't do your job – balancing a 200 watt rig for an all-acoustic band at a village hall dance is my limit.

Even so, I know enough to recognise that when the sound is poor, it isn't necessarily the sound engineer's fault. Nevertheless, if the sound quality at any gig is unsatisfactory, I still have the right to mention this fact to the management.   After that, it's up to them to decide who is to blame.

As it happens, I can't recall any examples of poor sound quality at any Sidmouth events I've attended. What rang my alarm bell, however, was a recent interview with a member of a widely admired ceilidh band who said that when audience members told him "you're too loud" he replied "you're too old". That gentleman (and anyone else on the folk scent who thinks similarly) should have a word with Pete Townsend about hearing damage.

All I really wanted to say to you Ralphie was "cool it a bit". Righteous indignation can become an addictive drug. I have worked with (and under) people who were so hooked on it that they couldn't cope without a daily rant.   And if they couldn't find a legitimate excuse for one, they had to invent one. This was not pleasant for me – but in the long term, it did them a lot of harm too. Much better to keep your blood pressure down, and conserve your adrenaline for a serious crisis.

Wassail!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,mattkeen
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 11:18 AM

Trevor Thomas for Mayor !

Hoorah Hoorah


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Folkiedave
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 11:24 AM

Bit of a thread drift here but most tunes have crossed the ocean(s) and identifying them (or indeed ceilidh bands) as related to one particular region is generally unproductive.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 11:34 AM

Trevor speaks for me also.

And why have only British (English/Irish/Scottish) ceilidh's? This is the ugly side of nationalism! Why not a Greek ceilidh (otherwise known as an "Opa!"), an Egyptian bellydancing ceilidh (plenty of bellies around after all), an Indian "Bollywood" ceilidh (a "Kali Ceilidh") or even a polynesian grass-skirted one (and no, the Bacup coconut dance doesn't count)?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 11:39 AM

Discussion of deafness and comments on Tickled Pink

who incidentally I find very danceable when they are not too loud!

I've updated the Newcomers' Guide to Sidmouth

too - glad to say it is proving popular.

With thanks to Derek Schofield and Mudcat for the idea.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 01:51 PM

Like Will and many others I play in an English Ceilidh band. Correct spelling.

Stu


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 01:53 PM

Despite the undoubted WAV proclaimed expertise of your late godmother and Wikipedia your reerence of choice.

Stu


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 01:54 PM

Not sure I love you any more, you're not worf it

Stu


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 02:19 PM

For Wav - Webfeet's explanation of the difference between English Ceilidh and other dances

Your definition (about which Will Fly rightly says "So what?") is extremely out of date. Times and customs change. And this has been pointed out to you many times before.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 02:19 PM

Read Derek's book to find out what happened to the festival for the first 50 years. It sort of outgrew itself and suitable available venues. But it's still (and for longer than any other English festival, both in terms of from when it started to how long it lasts) putting on an amazing programme of concerts, dances, workshops, children's events, despite the constraints.

Kitty


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 02:48 PM

I swear to God my late godmother (born in the 1930s) didn't know what a ceilidh was, but, as said above, did learn English country dances at her English school.

Must England become the nation that celebrates everybody else's culture? Yes our past imperialism was wrong, but adding the other wrong of neglecting our own good culture does not make a right.

"Not sure I love you any more, you're not worf it" (Stu)...(re)stiffen your upper-lip, man!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 04:23 PM

David - we've had this debate over and over again. Our band plays good tunes. Some are "English", some are "Scottish" and some are "Irish" - but - if you were to examine the origins and variations of many of these tunes, you'd have a very fuzzy picture of which "good culture" they'd come from. Take - for example - "Knutsford", otherwise known as "J.B. Milne". It's a great tune to dance to - very old-fashioned in style, with a great beat - check out the Old Swan Band's version on their latest CD "Swan For The Money". Is it English? Knutsford's in Cheshire. Is it Scottish? J.B. Milne was a Scot who played the violin as a young man and became the owner of a chain of cinemas. Take your pick. Does it matter?

As for our band members playing tunes from their own "good culture", well, here's a snapshot of some of the band members:

Fiddle player: Scottish - ancestors from Scandinavia
Mandolin player: Scottish
Bass player: Spanish mother
Drummer: English, as far as I know
Melodeon player: English as far as I know
Me (guitar): English, with Scottish (Kinross) and Irish (Kildare) ancestry

There are quite a few "good cultures" there, eh? Stop being a prat - you'll never, ever, persuade people to play what they don't want to play, or to enjoy themselves in ways that they don't wish to.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 04:52 PM

what's happened to Sidmouth? who knows, however some of the people on this thread, should learn some manners.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 12:42 AM

Firstly, thanks to Jim Moray for the link to his cartoon. Very apt!
Mike...You ask me to cool it, very well, I will. as soon as I am not insulted by people who know nothing as regards sound engineering stop denigrating my role.
The harshest critic of my work is myself. And you would not believe the lengths that sound crews go to to get something listenable to, out of sometimes the most god awful, and even dangerous gear.
Then having struggled with all of this, (after usually) a 10 minute sound check, some pillock comes up and tells you how to do your job. I've said this before but it's a story worth restating.
At a dance (Sat Night at a festival) A drunken morris man came up and said "Can't hear the Bloody Melodeon" I replied "Funnily enough, neither can I.....Maybe it's because it's a Sax lead tune in Bb, and the melodeon player is at the bar having a beer!"
So, if someone implies that I'm crap at my job, then I demand chapter and verse as to why. Sound Crews are always the piggy in the middle fall guys. Damned if we do, damned if we don't...Either by the band (rare) or the audience. (more often)
As I said at the top of this piece, go and look at Jim Morays very apposite cartoon linked above.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Phil B
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 06:47 AM

'Hello, I'm a tedious old giffer who likes to spout off on the Internet'.

Nice one Trevor!! Still laughing.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 04:50 PM

""Yes, what a lot of them. Is there a collective noun?""

I believe when they are on the internet, the collective noun would be an "e-Jaculate" of W**kers.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 05:20 PM

Unless one carries one's own sound meter to every dance event, the impression of loudness is a matter of subjective opinion, rather than fact.

Now there are certain combinations of instruments which, to me, sound louder than others produced at exactly the same decibel level (I have tested this!).

So I work on the principle that when I feel uncomfortable with the noise, instead of making a fuss about it I do the sensible thing and remove myself.

I do not demand that the sound be turned down, nor that the enjoyment of the multitude who are obviously perfectly happy with the status quo be curtailed.

Perhaps Steve needs to attend with a sound meter, and if he finds the limits are being exceeded, bring that fact to the attention of the organisers at the time.

A subjective assessment presented seven months later is somehow less than convincing, and might lead to suspicion of an ulterior motive.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 05:30 PM

""I swear to God my late godmother (born in the 1930s) didn't know what a ceilidh was, but, as said above, did learn English country dances at her English school.

Must England become the nation that celebrates everybody else's culture? Yes our past imperialism was wrong, but adding the other wrong of neglecting our own good culture does not make a right.
""

For God's sake Dave, get over yourself.

Your mother may not have used the word Ceilidh, and for sure the schools taught "English Country Dance", but I was born in 41, and I grew up going to English Ceilidhs at, among other venues, the well known Hammersmith Palais where they used to offer the chance to learn and practise on Saturday mornings and school holidays.

So the term was known and used back then.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:03 AM

Just for completeness, The microphone used to decide on sound levels in venues is calibrated very precisely. (and bleeding expensive to boot!)
Also, the parameters are incredibly variable.
Imagine a band in a village hall, playing at level "A" (doesn't matter what DBa that is)
Now put the same band, at exactly the same volume (all amps set the same for instance) in the RAH, and then in the marquee at Cambridge on a hot day with all the sides removed...You'll get wildly different readings of "perceived" sound levels.
Official sound readings are normally taken at the FOH mixing desk.
So, there is a lot of subjectivity going on here.
An interesting aside. Years ago, when at the BBC, I used to work on Radio 1's Sound City...7 days of "Rawk" music, over two venues,
One year (think it was Manchester, we all had to wear Sound recorders on our bodies to note Sound Level dosage during the week. (Elf 'n Safety, doncha know!)
All fine and dandy...slight problem, the microphone was attached to my T shirt..I was cocooned inside a set of BOSE noise cancelling headphones! (for comms purposes) When the readings were analysed at the end of the week. the management were horrified by the levels recorded. Me, meanwhile in my safe little headphone world, felt no pain at all...In fact it was quite quiet!
My point being that as Don T says. If you don't like it, leave....!
What I really hate, whilst rigging drum mics, is for the drummer to hit the snare as loud as he can, just as I'm 4 inches from the skin...Now that really hurts!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,guest -jim younger
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 09:51 AM

On the term 'ceilidh' in relation to English dance/song events - I believe you will find the word in the sleeve notes of the ancient EFDSS/HMV L.P. 'Jug of Punch' where it is used to describe the informal musical gatherings of young people, post-skiffle, circa 1959/1960. The album itself (a belter, as it happens) includes English, Irish and Scots performers -among them Shirley Collins, Seamus Ennis, Isabel Sutherland et al. Ah, the good old days ...


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:44 AM

It's all very well saying 'If you don't like it leave', but if you've paid a lot of money and find it unbearable, what's the chance of getting your money back?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:57 AM

in the spirit of mutual respect, common sense and reasonable compromise [oooh we do love mudcat...];

any responsible individual involved in public music events, either as participant or audience,
should at least consider this affordable minimal investment in hearing self protection...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Communication-Solutions-Musician-Earplugs/dp/B000UJ8RHE

no excuses.....


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 11:03 AM

It's all very well saying 'If you don't like it leave', but if you've paid a lot of money and find it unbearable, what's the chance of getting your money back?

Jim I cannot imagine anyone buying a season ticket at Sidmouth and not finding something to their taste. I am a concert-goer and my wife is a dancer. I never went to a single evening Ham concert and she never went to a single LNE and yest we had a great time.

The problem for someone like that who comes is at what point did you decide you didn't like it?

Before you had a chance to try everything - right at the beginning? Surely no-one is that daft.

Right at the end - after you have been and seen and listened to everything? Errr.....not really.

It's just the same as a pop festival - so you buy a ticket for Glastonbury and decide you don't like it. Whatever the policy is for Glastonbury, I suspect the answer will be much the same from Sidmouth.

So make sure it is what you want. Get a copy of Derek Schofield's book and read it thoroughly. Talk to people who know and like Sidmouth - they will all have different views. Take no notice of those who say it has changed out of all recognition. They might be right but you'll never know so it doesn't matter.

Decide if it is to your taste. Go one year and try it out by buying some individual tickets for events you think you might like.

The atmosphere is free after all.

I suspect you are a troll by the way.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 11:05 AM

Guest PFR - I used to wear ear protection all the time in Spain!

Starting with the plane going out.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 11:12 AM

.. and they're now half the price I paid a few years ago,

and they now do smaller size plugs for kids..


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,punkfolrocker
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 11:31 AM

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0033XVJKG/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0JMG2C32R


"Professional quality noise suppression plugs offering protection without muffling from the leaders of custom hearing defence
Sized for the smaller ear canals of women and children
Secure, comfortable fit
Sounds & voices not muffled
Flat response, 20db attenuation"

imho these should be essential purchases for all festival going families..

teach 'em to protect their hearing before they start toddling under and clambering up main stage PA stacks..


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 01:16 AM

I'm finding this thread becoming slightly silly.
In a week long festival of 600 plus events, firstly, nobody can go to them all, unless they have multiple personalities...!
There are parts of Sidmouth that I don't ever go to, The Bulverton...mainly aimed at young people, too old to schlep up to LNE, but lots of people do. Good for them.
Morris and Rapper workshops don't float my boat either.
But, I can always find something that suits me, and if there's nothing on in the programme at midday on a Tuesday (for instance) that floats my boat, I'll just pop into the Radway and play a tune.
Dave above speaks wisely. Having been to Glastonbury more times than I can remember for work, and had to listen to some God awful music on the way, there was always something that caught my attention.
Basically, If you think someones too loud, go and do something else.
There might be 100 people out there who don't think it's loud enough. they have rights too.
I also go to Towersey, and applaud the management for the "Yoof" marquee. (can't remember it's real name, sorry)
Not for me, but Hey!
No-one is forcing punters into going to events that they find offensive. Sidmouth is/can be what you make it. (As can Whitby/Broadstairs and any other festival)
If you wish to sit in your tent/B&B whatever and say "I'm not going to that event because of A/B/C or D"...Then why did you bother coming in the first place?
Why not just stay at home?
I'm heading towards 60, am looking forward to Sidmouth, and finding out what the young people are doing...and Yes, I don't mind it LOUD!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 07:01 AM

Can somebody please explain to me what a'Troll'actually is and if I understand the explanation, I will let you know whether or not I am one?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 07:11 AM

""It's all very well saying 'If you don't like it leave', but if you've paid a lot of money and find it unbearable, what's the chance of getting your money back?""

I take your point Jim, and if a lot of people are complaining your chance of getting a refund would be quite good.

So, first, look around at the others in the venue.

If you are the only one suffering distress at the sound level, ask yourself whether it is you, or the army, that is out of step.

Whatever the answer, your suffering is real, so leaving would be a good option in either case.

Next time out, musicians' (or motor racing marshalls') earplugs are, as suggested above, a sensible precaution.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 07:51 AM

As Don says. It's actually a legal requirement (I think) for earplugs to be supplied back stage at events. In fact all BBC trucks have a dispenser of hundreds of the buggers. It's very amusing when visitors think it's free chewing gum!
Meaning of "Troll".
Someone whose contribution to threads is only to stir up trouble, and cause arguements.
After a while, you get to recognise them.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 09:13 AM

Jim - Ralphie has given you a short version of the definition of a troll. However, you can find even more in the Wikipedia definition


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 09:11 AM

Thanks very much Ralphie & 'Surreysinger' - so I'm definitley not one!

I've had serious concerns at a number of concerts (but not, thankfully, Sidmouth!) and have left them. Quite often, I've found, concerts often get louder towards the end with the crescendo being reached on the last number of the final act.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Folknacious
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 12:38 PM

Quite often, I've found, concerts often get louder towards the end with the crescendo being reached on the last number of the final act.

Well, who'd have thought it? And I believe they even sometimes do the same in classical music. Disgraceful.

Obviously they've never heard of the traditional fade out finish.




Sadly, neither has this thread


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 02:56 PM

I came across the term Ceilidh, some time about 1978.
The term that was used at my primary school was Country Dancing.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 03:56 PM

Jim Martin...I don't think I said you were a troll, just trying to answer your question!!
It's not easy to understand the useage of words on T'Net sometimes. But trolls are pretty easy to suss out after a while!
When spotted, best ignore. Just as I am on this thread, (although, being human, it's sometimes very tempting to bait them, never worked though, it just encorages them)
For instance, I think the originator of this thread was either a troll or something else. It has been shown by the owners of the site, that two posters here are contributing from the same computer. Draw your own conclusion, and then ignore.
Or not....whichever you find most fun, I suppose!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 04:32 PM

The trouble is Ralphie, that quite a lot of your posts to mudcat are not very polite.
Sidmouth has evolved, it sounds like it has become more commercial, this does not meet with some peoples approval, Ralphie, Ruth Archer, Folkie Dave, seem to like it as it now is, I don't have a problem with that.
Personally,I wouldn't pay for a ticket to go to Sidmouth,If I wanted to have an unpaid folk holiday I find other FESTIVALS more appealing, I like all sorts of roots and traditional music, but would only bother with Sidmouth if I was paid to perform there, but to be fair I didnt think it was particularly appealing in the late 70s either, I found Whitby was more my scene, but each to their own.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 04:59 PM

Futher to GSS, myself, and others above, in Wales I thinks it's a "twmpath."


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,cg
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 05:18 PM

I'm so old I remember people complaining about how Steve Heap etc had ruined the festival when they took it over from EFDSS. In fact I think some people thought it was ruined when they let song in. Things change. They have to, to survive.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 07:38 PM

Sidmouth of course is in Devon

Stu


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 07:11 AM

...and thus, Stu, should hold English country/barn dances; rather than ceilidhs of Scotland, ceilis of Ireland, and twmpaths of Wales.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 07:19 AM

But WAV, These are just words not ideologies. Most bands I know play tunes from all of the above countries, plus France, Sweden, Spain, Belgium and a myriad of other countries.......
The tune is usually selected to suit the nature of the dance. And a good caller/band combination can create a great evening.
Are you seriouly advocating the abolition of the Gay Gordons in England???


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 07:31 AM

I'm seriously advocating, Ralphie, that we should love the national differences more - musically, you show me yours/I'll show you mine, sort of thing.

And the best thing, for me, about the six nations rugby is that such national differences are celebrated, for a change.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 07:42 AM

Oh Dear David.

Each time you start to "contribute" to a post, you attempt (often with deplorable success) to hijack it and counterfeit its purpose and contents to your strange and unfounded beliefs. Your posts are seldom relevant and mostly just wrong.

If Sidmouth runs Ceilidhs, that's what they are. You don't have to go (What, you don't anyway?)

Do you go to any Celidhs? Or Ceilis? Or Barn Dances? Or Carnivals? No?

An obsolete degree and a FLT cert.,e.g. don't really qualify you to have a valid opinion.


Stu


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 07:50 AM

David, when are you going to understand that you cannot constrict music or any other art form with simplistic notions of "nationality"? The musicians I know and mix with don't give a flying fuck about that kind of thing - we simply plays what appeals to us musically.

You quite clearly know nothing whatsoever about folk tunes and their origins and inter-relationship. Here's an example to confound your puerile arguments:

Our band plays tunes in sets - both for dancing to and listening to. One of the sets we play is "The Irish Washerwoman" coupled with "Brighton Camp". What could be simpler, I hear you whisper - an Irish tune followed by an English tune (and perhaps we shouldn't be playing the Irish one... eh?)

Well, it ain't quite as simple as that. If you turn to your copy of Playford - and you do have a copy of Playford, don't you - you'll find a tune called "Dargason". When you play it, you'll hear an interesting resemblance in its melody lines to the "The Irish Washerwoman". Which came first - the washerwoman or the Dargason? Are they related? Do they go under different names in different regions? Take a look at the "Fiddlers Companion" website or "TheSession.org" to read about relationships, commonalities and alternative titlings to a myriad of tunes from the British Isles.

OK - on to "Brighton Camp". What could be more English, eh? However, it's commonly thought that this may well be an Irish tune and there's certainly an early printing of it in a Dublin tune book.

D'ye see what I'm getting at? When you start trolling on about musicians who should be playing this or should be playing that, you're in the realm of stereotype and cliché. It's quite clear that you have no idea about music or what drives people to play it. Why not attempt to play an instrument properly - join a band - play duets with other people - buy some tunebooks - listen - listen - listen.

Then - and only then - will you start to get a clue what it's all about.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 08:42 AM

The English langauage has always adopted words from other languages, including the Celtic/Gaelic ones - whisky, for example. The word "ceilidh" when used in an English context means something very different from its Scottish meaning. It was adopted in oder to distinguish a particular style of dancing from other styles. You may wish that a different word had been chosen, but that's the one that has gone into widespread usage.

These distinctions are significant. "Ceilidhs" are different in character, and will probably attract a different audience, from "country dances", "barn dances", "tea dances", "D4D" and all the other descriptions you may come across. Sidmouth puts on a wide variety of dance events of different types and these distinctions are important for those who attend. These words are not synonyms.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 09:49 AM

To my dear friends Stu, Will and Howard. We might as well give up...Unless you play a "Good English Flute" or an "English Cittern" (whatever they are....discuss....No don't!), and sing in a monotonic voice, You'll never inhabit WAVS world....But, there again....why would you want too?
WAV will never change his bizarre and slightly bonkers world view.
I will immediately do massive research into the origins of all the tunes I play, and expunge any mongrels thereby found, and will vow never to play them again....Bloody short evening then!
Out of interest, was God Save the Queen written by an Englishman?
Mmmmm. Actually, who did write it? anyone know? (bet it's a German!)


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 09:57 AM

I will immediately do massive research into the origins of all the tunes I play, and expunge any mongrels thereby found, and will vow never to play them again....

Too late, Ralphie - I've got your CD! You're buggered, mate, and the Nationality Police are on their way to get you - earplugs and all...


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: johnadams
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 10:07 AM

Ralphie, you've got a bit of time because the Nationality Police are still in America, trying to pin some guilt on the bloke who introduced their National Anthem which was apparently adapted from a London Glee song. They'll be a while.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 10:36 AM

Re. "God Save the Queen": for what it's worth, as an English republican, I'd probably keep the tune and merely change the lyric and title to "God Save England"...God save our verdant land...


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 11:14 AM

god save the queenis the national anthem of the united kingdsom ,it is not the English national anthem.
our present royal family have german and greek blood, and are not pure bred english.
whoever wrote the song they should be put in the stocks for it is an awful song


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 11:18 AM

It matters not....As Flanders and Swann famously said, "The English national song is Jerusalem!"
The English, The English, The English are best.
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest!"


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 11:21 AM

Is anyone purebred English? How far back would you have to go. Personally speaking, only one of my grandparents was born in England (and her family name was Jones and they lived in Shropshire!), but I regard myself as English.

Vivienne


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 12:01 PM

Couldn't find English Republican. Could find English Democrat (not very right wing though David)

Anyway, inspired by your avoidance of replies, I wrote you a new anthem


"God save our mongrel breed
For we were born to lead
God save us all
God save our immigrants
Even those with Aussie chants
Lord hear our call
God save our English Folk
Follow rules that David wrote
God save our song
God save our English flute
With a WAV root a toot
(Some notes are wrong)
God save our tolerance
Save us from smarty-pants
God give us strength"


Stu


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 12:24 PM

WAV.
Re, your Rugby aside.
I haven't gone through all the members of the teams involved, but, I'm sure you'll find players of all the teams involved, who weren't born in the country that they represent!
In the same way that there was the famous occasion a few years ago, that the entire Chelsea football team came from "foreign" lands...
But played for Chelsea! How does that work in your strange little world?
Should we sack two thirds of the Premiership, just because they weren't born in England???
Kevin Peterson (cricket) He's not English......Great player though...
Basil D'Olivera.....(cricket) Not English either...and there was a huge storm about his inclusion in the English team.
I feel you ought to reconsider your blinkered opinions. Particularly as you are an Australian.
You could apply to play cricket for Zimbabwe...why not give it a go?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 12:26 PM

Didn't The Sex Pistols write "God Save The Queen" ....????


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 12:28 PM

The origins of the British National Anthem are well described by Percy Scholes in his little book "God Save the Queen!". (He could have gone further to look at later uses and pisstakes of it, though). It doesn't make any sense to think of it as English - it was specifically intended as the *King's* anthem when it was written, and the King was George II, King of Britain.

It's a terrific tune. I think only Montenegro and Abkhazia have better ones. (Abkhazia's anthem also has awe-inspiring words).


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 01:11 PM

it is a crap tune, and the words are fdrap.the irish and french, italian, spanish, portugeuse, American, Australian are imo better.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 01:20 PM

I'd like to abolosh it anywhere...


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 01:22 PM

Except, of course Dick, the Americans use it for "My Country, 'Tis Of Thee"...


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 01:35 PM

Ralphie: you must have missed the threads/tweets/blogs/posts/poems on sports, where, e.g., I've argued that our club football should be REGULATED back to how it was - mostly locals in MEANINGFUL competition; or in verse - http://walkaboutsverse.webs.com/#98.

And as for "Particularly as you are an Australian."...no - an English repat, who has read widely from the anthology of English verse, keeps fit with lawn tennis, plays an English flute to introduce English hymns and folk-songs, enjoys choral evensongs, was born the day Alf Ramsey's English team won the World Cup, and, to boot, whose staple diet is pottages!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 01:36 PM

Jack,will be saying, next, that LordRandall has a riveting storyline. I agree with guest, national anthems are a bad idea.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 03:09 PM

WAV. I have not missed your various utterings...Almost impossible to avoid them, and having heard your recordings, I now avoid them like the plague.
Oh God, not pottages and Alf Bloody Ramsey again...That's so 1997.
And the faux English Flute makes a cameo appearance. If nothing else at least you are consistent. Just think you are wasting your time. People on this board actually understand, and perform "Your Good English Music" (whatever that means).
Oh Well, keep on keeping on, and you will continue to be ignored.
If you ever decided to get rid of your outmoded and faintly ridiculous views there are a plethora of intelligent people out here who would advise and help you.
But (sigh) You continue this ridiculous scatter gun approach that has no semblence of any form of sense.
Sorry, but, until you go out and get a life. I will now ignore you.
PS. You're not a troll, I'm sure, you just do a good impression of one.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 03:45 PM

...as the Sidmouth milkmaid said when squirting the ploughman in anger: "How dairy!"


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Marcus
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 04:56 PM

Hello WALKABOUTSVERSE

I am a little disturbed to see you advocating the mixed race sport that is RUGBY UNION. It may have slipped your mind that some of the players ARE NOT WHITE and therefore must have some MIXED HERITAGE at the very least.

Please expect your DIM NATIONALIST CLUB membership card to be shredded and your lovely songs to be expunged from our database.

Or, in verse:

I have not a clue,
What these people do,
Yet unlike me,
they are form this c-o-u-n-t-r-y,
and that makes me mad,
so I tell everyone they should go,
and turn England into England again,
an England I did never know,
As I am from Oz,
though I've spent my whole life,
wishing I never was.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 05:40 PM

Here's what I HAVE said about rugby, Marcus - http://walkaboutsverse.webs.com/#99.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Marcus
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 05:49 PM

I'd keep that one quiet if I were you Dave, it's complete pish.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 02:02 AM

Marcus...."pish" What a great word! Can I nick it?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 06:23 AM

The tune of God Save the Quing wasn't written as a national anthem.

Beethoven thought it was terrific and he knew a thing or two, no?


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 06:54 AM

"God Save The Quing" Brill!
I'm going to nick that along with "Phish"
Thanks!


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Johnjo
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 08:51 AM

GSTQ is an abysmal, embarrassing, tuneless dirge, with sycophantic lyrics that make me squirm.

I did hear that our illustrious royal family reluctantly had to decide not to invite all their German relations to the forthcoming wedding, on the grounds that if all the German 'rellies' turned up, there'd be no room in the Abbey for anyone else.


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Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 11:37 AM

You see David what can happen when you hijack a thread


Stu


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