Sidmouth Ripoff!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 06:10 PM

I'm awaiting all the offers of B&B in Whitby - in exchange for dance instruction? Don't all rush at once girls....

Should we have a festival accommodation exchange scheme?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 06:38 PM

Whitby rules UK
Been to a few festivals in my time, and Whitby is the best so far.
Gave up Sidmouth, as it's too expensive a town, and I can see all the main acts at other, cheaper, festivals. Should I wish to do so.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 12:57 AM

It has come to my attention that "Steve Thomas" and "Chris Porter" appear to be the same person, and my data verifies this - or at least it's two people posting from the same location. Please remember that name-switching is not allowed at Mudcat, because it betrays the trust of the community.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 02:54 AM

Thanks for confirming this, Joe. I am happy to answer any questions that are legitimately posed, but when someone posts under multiple identities, saying some rather provocative things, one can't help wondering what their agenda is. That was why I expressed my suspicions. "Steve Thomas"'s response was interesting though - the subsequent righteous indignation and personal attack on me, combined with some of the things "Chris Porter" said on the other thread, certainly looks like someone with a very specific agenda - which is sad. I'd like to be able to answer people's genuine questions or concerns about the festival on Mudcat. But this kind of shit-stirring behaviour, creating bad feeling for the sake of it, makes it very difficult.

So, Peter Laban, he may well have had a particular point worth responding to, and other equally valid points may have been raised since by others, but unfortunately I don't feel really able to carry on in the conversation while people playing silly beggars hide behind numerous false identities, firing arrows over the parapet with the express intention of damaging the festival. It's a particularly nasty and cowardly way to go on.

If anyone wishes to contact the festival through the usual channels (e-mail on the website), every attempt will be made to answer questions and concerns to your satisfaction.

Joan

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 03:27 AM

Well Joan, all I can say as a reader of this thread, without knowledge of a backstory or anything, is that I saw someone make a valid point. Your reaction struck me as a highly unsympathetic and unpleasant one and that impression stands, even knowing now that there was a case of multiple identities (which is a crutch some other members of this forum use widely across this and other forums I may add and I don't have much sympathy for it either.

If you don't feel able to carry such a conversation, that's fair enough but maybe don't enter into it at then instead. As it stand you projected an unpleasant image and didn't serve your festival very well.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 04:53 AM

I think you are being a bit unfair Peter.

There are two threads attacking Sidmouth. Joan has made reasoned responses on both. These are not five minute jobs but take time to write. It began to like someone had another agenda - rather than simply h

When we find that the critics have lied in part by posting under multiple identities then you wonder what else they have lied about. It does look as if someone has taken someone's web pages which are critical of the festival and writ them large on here.

To me it looks like a clear attack on Sidmouth by someone who for whatever reason wants to have a go. When reasonable questions are asked reasonable answers have been given.

Joan has now provided an alternative way for people to discuss and problems they might have with the festival's programming.

But of course that does not get read by people.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:00 AM

Sorry wrong button pressed there.


"...... - rather than simply having a discussion".

The later response seemed to be asking if the two people doing the asking had other agendas and were posting under multiple identities.

Turns out she was correct.

You can hardly blame her for that.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: JHW
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:04 AM

At no event should you have to pay to pay for a ticket.
A booking fee is a buying fee; a scam that has become so prevalent that we have accepted it as reasonable. It is not.
When you buy hard goods the retailer's work is covered by the discounted price at which he buys in the goods.
The price you pay for the show should be the price that is advertised.
The promoter selling his tickets via ticketouts.com et al should discount them to the agent.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:13 AM

Sorry Folkiedave, I have no horse in this race but that is how it struck me when reading the thread. I don't have any opinions about Sidmouth. Ticket/booking charges have struck me as a rip-off in the past though for other events.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:19 AM

If some people on here would bother to calm down and be rational, I don't read either of the recent threads as ATTACKING SIDMOUTH and certainly my own website doesn't do this - there are different views on how events should be run, which audiences should be nurtured (at the expense of others), what ticket structures should be in place, and what are the possible consequences for the festival of alienating some groups of potential attendees. This is all entirely legitimate.

Whilst highly personal attacks and fake identities are never welcome I can tell you that the number of people who respond to comments on here (measured via click - throughs to my website) is a tiny fraction of total UK interest - so mudcat members (some of whom seem to think they are the prime voice of Sidmouth!!) would do well to recognise that they represent a very small fraction of total interest in the festival. Therefore, anything on here is likely to have a small impact if any impact at all!

So, if some people (or a person) has gone to considerable trouble to stir things up here, he or she has expended much effort to probably very little if any effect in the real world.

I actually thought Joan (Ruth) answered the ticket based criticisms on here very well - it is clear of lot of work has gone on to streamline ticket systems but wearing my hat of data analyst (previous existence!) I really do doubt that having 'on line real time data' of ticket sales is going to help much.

But I'll leave that one for now!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:28 AM

"an income which can be viewed as supporting their own hobby / addiction to folk music"

Not people giving up their time to enable your hobby/addiction to folk music then?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:43 AM

Criticism was offered about various aspects of Sidmouth Festival.

The Programmer and Marketing Director came on and answered those criticisms. She tried to clear up misunderstandings.

The critics changed tack. The P and MD suggested the same people had multiple identities and refused to answer questions on here but offered to do so via another well-established route.

Turns out she was right and the critic was hiding behind multiple identities. The other route is still open.

I think she is being very patient and tolerant. Those who do have legitimate criticisms and queries have suffered because she has stopped entering into dialogue.

Which is a shame - but who can blame her?

I agree with Steve that it is a small ripple in the large pond of things - but some of this is clearly personal cloaked under a guise of multiple identities. Which is not legitimate at all.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:45 AM

Loughborough Joan???

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:48 AM

I'm actually quite concerned by one reply from Joan (Ruth):

"Selling tickets on line costs money. A big problem that the festival has had in recent years is that, from the time the box office opens in Sidmouth in the week before the festival, we have had to move to a paper-based system which is not related to the system we use pre-festival. This is not particularly efficient. The new system will allow us to migrate (seamlessly, we hope!) to live selling, using the same system throughout the week."

I sincerely hope that any ticket charges applied to on-line sales pre-festival are not going to be retained for all sales during the festival week?

Selling overheads are either the usual 2 or 3% VISA/MASTERCARD charges which retailers have to absorb (maybe 40pence on a £20 ticket) or the more controversial £3 or even £6 charges for the privilege of buying tickets on-line. Given the very small costs involved in all automated transactions there must be scope for competition to bring these down.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 06:07 AM

Booking charges are perfectly reasonable for card transactions but if implemented for all sales channels then they are a rip off.

I am involved with on-line sales, the card handling charge that I pay on a £100 transaction is £3.10 (I wish the business had a big enough turnover to negotiate that down).

I would like to stress that all my posts on this thread are under the same name. If anybody wants to call me a liar they can do so to my face and take the consequences.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Tatterfoal
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 08:58 AM

Thankyou all for the comments and such, I will be going to Sidmouth as in previous years but will only pay for each event attended instead of as in the past supporting the whole festival even though we do not attend many of the concerts .   I am afraid that is the festivals loss but I do object to the booking charge, it may be easier, it may mean someone does not have to deal with the inconvience of admin, but as always we have the option of voting with our wallets wich I intend to do.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 12:12 PM

If you buy your ticket at the cabin you would not have to pay the booking fee, but then the early bird ticket price would not be applicable.

Here in Stroud our Stroud Ceilidhs ticketing is handled by Stroud TIC and they charge a handling fee for internet sales. And they have full time staff during office hours.

I may very well buy tickets at the cabin or on the door. Given the probable dates I will be there.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: bubblyrat
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 12:59 PM

I first went (like others,including Pete Coe) to Sidmouth in 1965. Since then,there have been some big ( sometimes very big !) changes, not always,in my opinion,for the better.
               I would NEVER pay for a ticket today !! I would sooner go to a nearby campsite, and visit the town every day, calling in at the various "sessions" , especially in The Bedford , and take time out to enjoy Branscombe, Otterton , Budleigh Salterton, etc. ,and enjoy the general ambience on the Esplanade and in some other locations, paying for a "Headline" event IF I wanted to attend one. I suspect that a lot of people do this type of thing today. As for the "ceilidhs" ,forget it !! ; I value my hearing too much to have my eardrums shattered by the morons who operate the sound-systems today !!Where do get them from , Ruth (or Joan) ??
You should write a book entitled "How To Ruin A Once Popular ,Internationally -Acclaimed Folk Festival In A Few Short Years" ; it would set a benchmark, I'm sure !!
               
             Roger ( "Robin & Roger", Sidmouth, Yeovil, Dorchester, and Weymouth Folk Clubs, 1964-66)

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 01:16 PM

Saltburn is a great festival, and it is also near the sea.festival prices held the same as 2010, 52 sterling, 58 after june 1st, that is what I call good value

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Brian Peters
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 01:55 PM

"I don't read either of the recent threads as ATTACKING SIDMOUTH"

A title like "What's Happened to Sidmouth?" doesn't suggest to me that the poster thinks anything GOOD has happened to Sidmouth, while "Sidmouth Ripoff!" (still up there near the top of the page advertising one person's pernicious opinion as though factual) couldn't be mistaken for anything other than an attack.

I'm not sure why Sidmouth Folk Week seems to have this particular magnetism for the disgruntled - maybe because there will always be a few who think it should have forever have remained true to either its EFDSS or its Mrs Casey incarnation - but I'm pretty pleased that it's still happening, and still a good festival, and still presenting music with a traditional base, after nearly biting the dust altogether just a few years ago. And I also thought Ruth's responses were a model of detail and good manners up to the point at which it became clear she was dealing with an axe-grinder.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 01:56 PM

Burnham-on-Sea's Annual FREE Folkfest


is what I call excellent value !!!!!


http://www.folkfest.co.uk/

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 02:10 PM

Brian,I disagree.
Sidmouth could do with someone other than Ruth Archer to answer the complaint,someone with some diplomatic skills might be a good idea.
my reaction upon reading this thread was a similiar one to Peter Labans'

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 02:29 PM

What is this...lets kick a sound man week?
This is the second thread where my (other) profession, (my first being a musician) has been villified by people who haven't got a clue what they are talking about.
bubblyrat....You bloody do it. You put in the hours on a daily basis I dare you,
But no, you won't, will you?
You don't even buy a ticket, therefore you have no right to criticise something that you don't even attend.
Enjoy Budleigh Salterton.
Thanks for calling me and all the sound crews at the venues "Morons" Very Nice.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 02:44 PM

Bubblyrat has clearly not read the thread to which Joanie contributed, detailing the rise in ticket sales and the debts the previous festival got into. The debts that the current team are busy clearing.

That's twice the festival in the last thirty years the festival has been in financial trouble. The current management are doing their best to get the festival out of the fertiliser. Nice to see you doing your best to help.

What I suggest you do is bring your own beer from the supermarket, make up your own sandwiches, and sit on the beach with your mates. That's what makes a good festival.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 02:56 PM

Dick. Joan did answer diplomatically on a number of occasions on this and another thread. But it was clear that some people had another agenda and that they were trying to make it look like they had some support by posting under multiple identities.

I see the Burnham-on-Sea Festival mentioned here

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker - PM
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 01:56 PM

is seeking volunteer sound staff!

So there you are - go and volunteer. You can all control the sound to your heart's delight.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 07:09 PM

Folkie Dave, I disagree with you, my impression is similiar to that of Peter Laban.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: stallion
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 03:46 AM

I suppose I have got used to treating other peoples posts the same way I hope other people treat mine, a genuine cast for knowledge and considered opinions. However such is the nature of this place that people with axes to grind diguise the axe as a feather duster. My personal view is that of someone who can't sing getting up to sing at a "come all ye", cringe, but will defend the right for them to perform because it is about being inclusive. The reply might have been a bit more informative, Joe did confirm that two of the names used were from the same PC, which is not on. Although I use a pseudonym I think a lot of people in this place know who i am, or, in the case of Damien O'Kane, "Your a nobody" (oops, sorry, that's my axe.... he probably wasn't far wrong except he forgot to add I was a "paying" nobody) I think everything is expensive now and can't see how festivals will survive without "the big society" stepping in, oops, David, festivals already survive on huge contribution from volunteers, maybe set a pattern for the NHS. Anyway back on thread, organising anything to do with folk is a thankless 'orrid task and i am sure doesn't need bitching.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: stallion
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 03:48 AM

Oh and i forgot to add, Joe ought to close this thread cos it really doesn't serve any useful purpose, and maybe red card th pc that started the mischief

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 09:13 AM

I'm not sure why Sidmouth Folk Week seems to have this particular magnetism for the disgruntled

the bigger the target, the more the hits.

ergo - it is doing something right!

simples!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 10:12 AM

The original post for this thread wasn't actually about the qualities of the Sidmouth Festival - it was simply registering some surprise and anger that, having paid top whack for the ticket, there was a surcharge for just booking the ticket. It's a legitimate question - worth discussing - and no fault of the OP that the thread got hijacked here and there.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Tatterfoal
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 10:15 AM

Thanks for that Will Fly I was begining to feel persecuted for asking the origional question.