Sidmouth Ripoff!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 11:46 AM

I suggest Sidmouth IFF invests in a PR person, and that he/she deals with all the points raised on here, and elsewhere.
An Artistic Director who appears to get personally involved, is not the correct way to deal with any problems.
The wearing of several hats, requires several heads!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: stallion
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 11:43 AM

What really puzzles me is that Ms A should provide such robust defence to something not so unreasonable. A suggestion that there is not a package for the dance only fraternity. I don't buy the transparency argument cos the addons of budget airlines piss everyone off compared to BA who published prices include the lot. Don't envy anyone the task of organising a festival but one should always be open to listening to the punters and don't get so narked with the carping. Broad shoulders and a thick skin is probably one of the requirements for a festival organiser!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 11:27 AM

Tatterfoal, I should explain a few things:

Ticket Solve isn't an agency, they provide an on-line box office for the festival. Selling tickets on line costs money. A big problem that the festival has had in recent years is that, from the time the box office opens in Sidmouth in the week before the festival, we have had to move to a paper-based system which is not related to the system we use pre-festival. This is not particularly efficient. The new system will allow us to migrate (seamlessly, we hope!) to live selling, using the same system throughout the week. This will allow us to keep track of capacities in venues much more efficiently, will allow us to capture information about purchasers during the week so that we can keep in touch with them over the year, and provides all sorts of other support services that any modern box office would. It's a big step forward both for us and for our customers. It's not an agency, and they are not "making money out of folkies" any more than the people we hire the marquees or the seating or the toilets from. It's all going towards making the festival experience better and making the festival more viable in the long term.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Steve Thomas
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 11:27 AM

Peter, many thanks for your support. I thought that I had gone crackers for a moment. I thought that I was making a fair comment and was in line with the general discussion here about Sidmouth ticketing and costs? I am quite dismayed by the response and quite can't my head around it. It's uncanny that someone who is involved with one of the major music festivals for folk usic in the UK behaves in such a way and which bordered upon attempted bullying in an earlier response to me. Not good for future support is it when the 'public face' of an organisation comes over as being a little irrational...

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 11:18 AM

Sorry, cross posting. my last post was a reaction to :

'Must be getting crowded under that bridge. Say hi to "Chris" for me while you're there.'

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 11:17 AM

He had a fair point though, didn't he?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Tatterfoal
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 11:16 AM

The booking fee should be included in ticket price not added on, but I still fail to see why the electronic system costs twice the mail system.    We have decided not to purchase tickets this year and pay for what we go to instead, I do not like doing this as I believe in supporting the festival as a whole, we tend to go to the ceilidhs and not concerts so usually pay more than we attend but have felt it right to support the festival, but we do not want to support some agent making money out of folkies. The festival will get our custom this year but not the extra support.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Steve Thomas
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 11:15 AM

Blimey, you are very, very strange lady!!!!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 11:10 AM

Must be getting crowded under that bridge. Say hi to "Chris" for me while you're there.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Steve Thomas
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 11:08 AM

I am sorry as I appear to have upset you, but I can't do anything about other people can I, and I certainly have no intention of discussing my personal life with anyone on here. I thought that my comment was a genuine contribution and that it might have been viewed as such, but apparently in your eyes it has no value. My input was to the general debate, thread, forum which many others contribute to, but alas you appear to have taken personal offence at my remarks and I can't see why. Is your response an 'official' one from the Artistic Director of Sidmouth Folk Week or just something from an over sensitive lady? Oh well, I've better things to do on a Sunday afternoon than to lock horns with people on here!!!

Oh by the way ... I can't help being a new 'guest' on here, one has to start sometime. I thought that Mudcat was a mature music forum
but judging from what I heard from you, guests are NOT made very welcome, so it will be the first and last time I shall use this particular outlet. Are all Mudcatters like you ....?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:53 AM

Well, you're another brand new guest, just like "Chris Porter", who claims to have been attending Sidmouth for the past 37 years but strangely enough, there is no record of anyone of that name on the festival database.

He is also having a public go at Sidmouth, and focusing on the same issues around ceilidh, citing numbers thereof, etc. Pretty soon you'll be telling me about your work with various ballet companies, which somehow gives you the credentials to sit in judgement on folk festivals.

Sorry, whoever you are, but I don't have time to play in your sandpit any more. I have a festival to organise. You are a troll, and I claim my £5.

To the genuine contributors to this thread: please feel free to get in touch through the more formal channels (ie, festival email) if you feel you wish to comment further, and I will do my best to respond appropriately to your concerns.

Joan

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Steve Thomas
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:48 AM

I have very catholic tastes with regards to music in general and also within the Folk genre. I love the fantastic songwriting of Chris Wood, enjoy the exceptional musicallity of Lau and can go OTT dancing to Whapweasel. However, my partner is 'dance, dance, dance' and a mighty good dancer as well. She has been attending Sidmouth for years just for the dance/ceilidh programme and I was just highlighting that this is one area where a single strand/genre can be easily identified to support your statement on 'taylor made packages' for the individual, when in the main, they only meet the differing needs based on time requirements and not on individual interets areas.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Steve Thomas
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:38 AM

Sorry Ruth/Joan, I can't oblige I am afraid ... should I be? Would it stand me in for a sizeable inheritence> S.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:34 AM

Wow, Steve Thomas - you're not related to Chris Porter, by any chance...?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Steve Thomas
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:31 AM

Mmm I am sorry , Ruth/Joanbut I cannot agree with your interpretation of the 'tiered' ticketing system at Sidmouth.

"festival package that best suits them, as there is such a variety of events and strands of programming available at Sidmouth"

The tickets which are available are only focused on time requirements ... week, weekend or day tickets. There is of course the option of 'Ham or no Ham' as part of the season ticket purchase and eventually there will be event tickets. However none of these ticketing options actually address your 'spin' about buying a package that suits the needs of an individual and allows them to follow their 'strand' of the programme.

There are now 29 ceilidhs staged at Sidmouth, 14 of which are 'free' to all punters no matter who they are. Strong dance supporters who attend Sidmouth solely because of the ceilidh programme, don't have the time to attend any concerts even if they wished to, but is there a ticket for just the ceilidh events ... No of course not, even though this is a very clearly defined 'strand' of interest amongst Sidmouth followers and could easily be managed with regards to ticketing.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:16 AM

Sidmouth also provides discounts for early booking, Paul.

The different tickets we offer allow people to choose a festival package that best suits them, as there is such a variety of events and strands of programming available at Sidmouth. I realise that most festivals do not provide such a wide range and varying scale of programming, and consequently their customers wouldn't necessarily need or benefit from the range of ticket options that Sidmouth offers.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:11 AM

Ryannair do have economies of scale on their side.

If you have already paid the maximum booking fee and sign in with your customer details, you will not be charged an additional booking fee for subsequent transactions.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:08 AM

I think its worth pointing out, since it was referred to above; Whitby Folk Week does not charge for booking, in fact we discount early booking. The other point is that there are no 'tiered' tickets at Whitby – a full season ticket is exactly what it says and allows access to all areas, venue size permitting.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Steve Thomas
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:07 AM

I must agree with the concern over the scale of the booking fee. Even Ryanair don't charge £12!! It's scandelous especially as it almost the cost of a Ham evening concert for which we also have to pay extra for (plus another booking fee presumably, should we book one seperately)?????

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 09:58 AM

Hi chaps,

We have to charge a booking fee because every way we have of selling you a ticket pre-festival costs us money.

The company we are using this year is a small independent one, not Ticketmaster. It's called Ticket Solve, and the service they provide is fast, reliable and seems to easily cope with all the vagaries of Sidmouth's complex ticketing structure.

We make no profit at all from the booking fee, which works on a sliding scale, and is capped. This is what the Festival Chief Exec, John Braithwaite, says:

"In an attempt to keep our customers' costs down, we have held our booking fee at a very low, fixed level per order for a number of years (which actually penalises customers buying limited numbers of concert tickets).

When changing to a new booking system, which works out booking fees on a more equitable basis related to order value, we checked levels charged by other comparable events, before setting the rate so that we were not out of line.

We appreciate that the new basis, although capped, will give higher fees for some customers which is unwelcome. Please be assured that we use our income to keep down ticket prices as far as possible, and improve the Festival line up and facilities, as we are not a commercially driven company."


Tam's point is exactly why we decided to make the costs transparent, rather than burying them in the cost of the tickets: we thought it was fairer for people to know what they're paying for. We thought that including it in the cost of the tickets would constitute something of a "stealth tax". If, however, there is enough feedback to the contrary and people would prefer to know the all-in price at the outset, we will respond accordingly next year.

Probably more effective to go through official channels to register that feedback, rather than putting it on this thread, though - it's guaranteed to be seen by the Board if you either send it through the contact e-mail on the festival website, or put it on a feedback form at the festival.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 05:40 AM

Well then maybe the Big Society will be able to break that TicketMaster monopoly in favour of community run services and promoting small business.

One can only hope.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 05:29 AM

Large events and even small ones are using private companies to manage ticket sales.

Mostly it's *one* private company, Ticketmaster, which operates all over the world under a variety of names. It's the McDonald's or Tesco of ticket sales. They're big enough and ruthless enough to stomp all over a local authority. If Sidmouth didn't give them their cut I imagine there would suddenly be intractable problems with event safety and licencing. Joan had better make sure her sheets are safe to wash in a cycle that would get horse blood off.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 05:24 AM

It is probably the case that DIY processing of credit card orders is no longer allowed by the banks - years ago I ran a small business doing this, but I suspect these days you have to be 'approved' under many strict criteria before being allowed to take VISA money, etc.

This being the case, maybe the festival has no option but to use a (paid for) third party service.

That being said the figure of £12 mentioned in the first post seems far too high - just a few pounds is normal.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 04:50 AM

I don't know... do we want transparency or not? Do we want an itemised bill or not?

It is as Foolestroupe said. Large events and even small ones are using private companies to manage ticket sales. In the "Big Society" you will see more of these "extra" charges on many purchases for goods and services, especially as public services and charities turn into commission based local area trading companies and social enterprises.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: s&r
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 03:53 AM

Just as a thought, it might reduce the various taxes and levies on festivals. For example the levy from PRS is I believe 3% of gross sales - showing a booking charge separately might avoid a proportion of that payment. I don't know that, just a thought


Stu

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 08:18 PM

I hate "booking fees" too: would much rather have a bottom line price to avoid any resentment.
In other cases, where you pay a booking fee and the concert is postponed, you can ask for a refund but you DON'T get the booking fee component back, as they claim it's for administrative charges.
Is there any difference between using credit card, debit card or Electron card? There are surcharges when e.g. booking flights, highest for CC, middle for debit card, nil for Electron cards. Which are currently conducting a "super-campaign" against these extra charges, while the banks are also phasing out Electron cards, removing the no surcharge option for payment. I think there should be a similar protest against booking fees for concerts and festivals.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: Noreen
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 08:02 PM

I think the point is, that if there is no way to avoid paying the 'booking charge', why is is stated as a separate charge rather than being included in the total ticket price?

Obviously the costs involved in booking tickets have to be covered, but all the other unavoidable costs are not listed separately- so why is this listed as a separate charge?

It's something that annoys me too, Tatterfoal. Warwick Festival do this too- an extra booking fee has to be paid, even if you pick the tickets up yourself. I notice Whitby don't, though.

Just tell us what we have to pay!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:34 PM

And if someone from WITHIN the organisation were getting paid to do the bookings, there would be threads here wailing about the inherent 'corruption' involved in that!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:32 PM

The organisers either have to have someone available nearly full time to handle the bookings, a 'willing volunteer', who are becoming less available these days due to many pressures, including financial, so that many of these would prefer to be trying to earn some income; a fully paid 'ex-volunteer', which would cost probably more than getting a professional business to do it, or someone who gets a 'commission' for all the faffing around needed; or you pay a fee to a 'professional organisation'.

If such an organisation is handling many events, they can amortise their overheads over all of them, irrespective of how many or few booking are coming in at any time. If it is a professional business, only a fool would not be trying to make a profit.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: s&r
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:40 PM

There's a booking fee at Cambridge FF. The booking is run by See Tickets. The booking for the last two years has been easy and professional. I suppose it pays to run See Tickets.

Stu

Subject: Sidmouth Ripoff!
From: GUEST,Tatterfoal
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 10:53 AM

I have just got round to booking tickets for Sidmouth Folk Festival and find I am being ripped off with either a £6 "booking charge" by post or a £12 booking charge by Website booking, ther is no nformation on why there is a booking charge at all, I rang the contact number and even if calling in person there is still a booking charge to find.   Tha week tickets are £158 already this is quite expensive without the additional charge, if I had not already booked accomodation I doubt I would pay this , whats the catters opinions on this I have not had to pay additional money at any of the other festivals I attend.    Am absolutely disgusted.