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BS: A Female Archbishop

WalkaboutsVerse 09 Mar 11 - 08:47 AM
Bill D 09 Mar 11 - 11:30 AM
Will Fly 09 Mar 11 - 11:43 AM
Dave MacKenzie 09 Mar 11 - 12:49 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Mar 11 - 01:40 PM
s&r 09 Mar 11 - 01:48 PM
GUEST,Doc John 09 Mar 11 - 01:58 PM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 09 Mar 11 - 01:58 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Mar 11 - 02:08 PM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 09 Mar 11 - 02:13 PM
s&r 09 Mar 11 - 02:21 PM
Joe Offer 09 Mar 11 - 02:51 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Mar 11 - 02:54 PM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 09 Mar 11 - 04:29 PM
Will Fly 09 Mar 11 - 04:33 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Mar 11 - 04:44 PM
Smokey. 09 Mar 11 - 04:45 PM
Dave MacKenzie 09 Mar 11 - 04:46 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Mar 11 - 05:30 PM
Dave MacKenzie 09 Mar 11 - 06:22 PM
GUEST,Sandy (lost cookie) 10 Mar 11 - 12:31 AM
J-boy 10 Mar 11 - 12:42 AM
Joe Offer 10 Mar 11 - 12:52 AM
banjoman 10 Mar 11 - 05:43 AM
Will Fly 10 Mar 11 - 06:07 AM
Allan Conn 10 Mar 11 - 06:33 AM
Dave MacKenzie 10 Mar 11 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,Patsy 10 Mar 11 - 09:37 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 10 Mar 11 - 11:33 AM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 10 Mar 11 - 12:25 PM
Smokey. 10 Mar 11 - 03:25 PM
Dave MacKenzie 10 Mar 11 - 03:46 PM
GUEST,John MacKenzie 10 Mar 11 - 04:35 PM
TheSnail 10 Mar 11 - 04:57 PM
Don Firth 11 Mar 11 - 02:52 PM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 12 Mar 11 - 04:03 AM
s&r 12 Mar 11 - 05:42 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 12 Mar 11 - 01:13 PM
s&r 12 Mar 11 - 05:43 PM
Dave MacKenzie 12 Mar 11 - 07:33 PM
Uncle_DaveO 12 Mar 11 - 08:54 PM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 13 Mar 11 - 05:47 AM
BTNG 13 Mar 11 - 04:55 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 13 Mar 11 - 05:05 PM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 13 Mar 11 - 05:14 PM
BTNG 13 Mar 11 - 05:21 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 13 Mar 11 - 05:41 PM
s&r 13 Mar 11 - 07:37 PM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 14 Mar 11 - 05:52 AM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 14 Mar 11 - 07:04 AM

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Subject: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 08:47 AM

English females should not, e.g., be allowed to get cauliflower ears from playing rugby, but they should be allowed to work as priests and, indeed, become the Archbishop of Canterbury, within our Church of England.

The BBC reported today that several C. of E. members have gone to Roman Catholicism, because they hate the idea of the latter - they are wrong, as is imperialism of any kind.

Thus, both the imperialistic Anglican and Roman Catholic movements should be dissolved, and replaced with a Church of Italy only, a Church of Germany only, a Church of England only (complete with female priests), etc.; or in verse - http://walkaboutsverse.webs.com/#219.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 11:30 AM

"... should be dissolved, and replaced with ..."

And would YOU like to organize and explain that little project?

They would fight for 40 years just about who gets to be on the committee....


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 11:43 AM

English females should not, e.g., be allowed to get cauliflower ears from playing rugby

Not that old chestnut again, David? Who's doing the allowing here - men? Tell that to our local women's rugby team and see what you get!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 12:49 PM

"English females should not, e.g., be allowed to get cauliflower ears from playing rugby"

Considering how this year's Womens Six Nations is going, it would give the others a chance.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 01:40 PM

I have no problem at all with a female, e.g., reading a lesson at choral evensong; on the other hand, I found the brief highlights of the abovemention Women's Six Nations, e.g., revolting.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: s&r
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 01:48 PM

Which only goes to prove that you have something seriously wrong David.

I despair that someone who claims an education, and a moral stance, and a nationality that is tolerant and caring, should continue to post such hectoring, sexist, homophobic, patronizing and generally valueless and incorrect irritating drivel.

Get a real education cobber

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 01:58 PM

I do have a problem with female bishops - but just the bishop part! We should never have allowed that feudal relic to creep back into the Church of England. Why should so many of them sit unelected in the House of Lords. As the number of 'coal face' clergy has diminished, the number of bishops seems to have increased. Our Team Rector looks after ten churches (more to be added) in big rural parishes with only two curates and one of those is semi-retired; he has no paid clerical help. Each of these churches would have had a vicar/rector plus a curate a century ago. Yet in the diocese there are three bishops, with secretaries, drivers, gardeners etc etc. Talk about all chiefs and no indians!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 01:58 PM

What sort of person - man or woman wants a job like that?

Standing round, listening to hymns, a funny walking stick, a funny hat, wearing a sort of ceremonial nightie, occasionally saying something holy.....I realise the money's probably all right, but its not enough to keep the mind alive really, is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 02:08 PM

Stu: that's akin to saying that, unlike me, you don't accept female priests but do accept females playing one of the roughest most-injury-prone sports.

Then you resort to "Get a real education cobber," which is akin to some of what you just falsely accused me of.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 02:13 PM

Oh WAV, grow a pair for chrissake.

Tell him, Bollocks mate! I'll stick to my unreal education!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: s&r
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 02:21 PM

Women are independent human beings. I have no problem with the sports they play, I don't care if they preach or run a church. It's not for me or you to tell them they can't.

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 02:51 PM

Church of Italy only, a Church of Germany only, a Church of England only

Thank you, but no. Religion has been in bed with nationalism and with national government far too often, and it hasn't been healthy.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 02:54 PM

Do you think Roman Catholic and Anglican imperialism have been healthy, Joe?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 04:29 PM

I think a bit of divergent thinking is called for.

Accordingly i think the nest Archbishop of Canterbury should be CHERYL COLE. She made a fantastic job of being a judge on the Xfactor and I think someone with her pleasant personality is just what the job needs.

I mean, can you imagine Cheryl on the Bishop's throne - wearing one of those really short skirts? I reckon the congregation would hanging on her every word.

I tell you, I wouldn't mind going up and kissing her ring.

We could be all sitting there a bit bored with all the sermons and canticles. And Cheryl could say, Right lads - we're having a five minute commercial break where I demonstrate items from my latest lingerie collection. I call this thong....April in New York.

Then we could have a few more hymns and then maybe Cheryl could introduce some other young talented friends in showbiz that she's mentoring - and we could have a wet surplice competition.

I believe its time for innovation in this field.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 04:33 PM

Cheryl wouldn't get bored with my canticles, I can tell you. By gum, they've seen some service!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 04:44 PM

...Can almost feel The Venerable Bede turning in his grave.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Smokey.
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 04:45 PM

It would encourage forepart harmony.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 04:46 PM

Wasn't there a female Pope in Lexx Series 4?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 05:30 PM

The word "imperialism" should only be used in a context where it is appropriate. It is not relevant or appropriate in this context or in that of rugby.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 06:22 PM

The episcopal system in the Christian Church was adopted when it became assimilated into the Roman Empire - the title 'Pontiff' dates back at least to the time (and person) of Caesar Augustus. Amongst the intruction that were given to the translators of the Authorised Version by Jamie the Saxt was that liturgical terms (as used in the Bishops' Bible) were to be retained, rather than the possibly more accurate translations in other versions. Jamie, of course, was a great believer in the 'Divine Right of Kings' and the episcopal system of church government.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: GUEST,Sandy (lost cookie)
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 12:31 AM

Firstly the head of the Anglican church is Queen Elizabeth (a woman), not the Archbishop of Canterbury(a man) who is her deputy. A few years back when Lizzie tried to appoint a new Archbishop of Canterbury(a man) she was overruled by PM Maggie (a woman, perhaps) who felt that it was her jurisdiction to appoint a different Archbishop of Canterbury (a man.) While I have some grudging respect for Lizzie I think Maggie was an arsehole and I have not darkened the door of the Anglican church since!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: J-boy
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 12:42 AM

A female Archbishop? Why not? Just one more person in a collar I won't listen to.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 12:52 AM

WAV asks: Do you think Roman Catholic and Anglican imperialism have been healthy, Joe?

Of course not, David. Allow me to quote myself: Religion has been in bed with nationalism and with national government far too often, and it hasn't been healthy.

Most other nations don't seem to understand or accept the American concept of "separation of church and state." You can find all kinds of things wrong with the U.S., but I think that one concept is a very good one. It allows both religion and government a chance to maintain some semblance of integrity, without coopting the Deity to support the Government - or vice-versa. It's one reason why religion is in a much better state in the US than it is in many other nations - because it isn't an arm of government. Oh, we have our fair share of religious lunatics and child molesters and whatnot, but at least the lunatics aren't working hand-in-hand with government - and vice-versa.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: banjoman
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 05:43 AM

As a Catholic for more than 60 years, I am apalled at what seems to me to be an adaptation of rules to suit individuals. I personally have no problem with the ordination of women and would welcome it in our church. I would also like to see the ancient rule of celibacy abolished as it now seems that a lot of those moving to the RC church may be married with children. So why not one rule for all?

I believe that my faith is not in what I think of as the Church Temporal which was constructed by Man (mainly men) but rather in the teaching of an honest and truthful person who lived on earth 2000 years ago and who never condoned pomp and ceremoney or the exclusion of any person based on gender - the church has lost sight of that simple message over the years and I (along with many others) pray for the day that their vision is restored - what a better place this world would be


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 06:07 AM

Q: What do you get if you cross a Jehovah's Witness with a Unitarian?

A: Someone who knocks on your door for no reason.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Allan Conn
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 06:33 AM

"Which only goes to prove that you have something seriously wrong David."

I've not really witnesses the female version of the 15 a side game but I've seen several 7 a side tournaments and there were some really 'fit' females playing :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 09:23 AM

In my days at Longbenton (DHSS computer centre) we had some heavy duty packs of paper, and the only operator able to lift them was an ex corporal in the WRAC.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 09:37 AM

I admire her for taking it on but I would rather slave away over a pc keyboard anyday.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 11:33 AM

Can almost feel The Venerable Bede turning in his grave

He does it twice daily, WAV - noon & midnight; press your ear to his tomb and you can hear him do it, not because of female rugby players or Archbishops though, rather because of the Anglican occupation of his Romanesque Norman cathedral which was built to the Glory of the Church of Rome which both Bede and Cuthbert before him (he turns at quarter past noon so you can easily made it!) were well into. And whilst you're in the Galilee Chapel, ponder the Islamic influence going down; and be sure to check out the wee stone near the entrance marked with the initials JB. Thereunder lie the bones of Joseph Boruwlaski, The Polish Count whose dimuninutive effects may be seen in the town hall, including his wee fiddle. Read about him HERE.

Here's a thing, WAV - If you took away all the different cultural influences, immigrations & invasions that make up our Englishness what would be left? Nothing I can readily think of for sure. Even at our most English we are the consequence of the multi-cultural diversity that has shaped our nation since the retreat of the last ice-age.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 12:25 PM

Absolutely. Couldn't have put it better myself. And this is why it could be the year for Cheryl Cole to get her hands on the bishopric.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 03:25 PM

There are those who would say she deserves a handsome stipend.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 03:46 PM

I wouldn't say that Cuthbert was well into the Church of Rome. It does appear that he accepted Roman usages after the Synod of Whitby, but this has more to do with political necessity than an enthusiasm for foreign practices.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: GUEST,John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 04:35 PM

It's all superstitious mumbo jumbo anyway. So for all I care, you can make a monkey an archbishop, or has that already been done?
Goodness knows I loathe football as much as I do religion, but at least football is real, albeit not short of myths and legends either.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: TheSnail
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 04:57 PM

Well, there's already bean a Pope Joan so why not?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:52 PM

The opening line of this thread looks to me like a serious attempt to commit suicide.
". . . females should not be allowed to. . . ."
You're not married, nor do you know many women, do you, Walkies?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 04:03 AM

Cheryl - doesn't she look great in red - perhaps she should be a cardinal first.



http://www.bigalwhittle.co.uk/id53.html


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: s&r
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 05:42 AM

Al.... Cheryl Cole in lingerie... your song needs a health warning

Can,t deal with it

Age creeps up on me

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 01:13 PM

Cheryl Cole is rich and famous from putting her time and talent into an aspect of American culture - pop; whilst there are several other young English ladies, struggling to earn a living, who have, probably, put just as much time and talent into English folk - or, indeed, preaching (whatever they may think of "Walkies", Don!).


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: s&r
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 05:43 PM

Another bigoted ant-American post. She sings and speaks with a decided geordie twang - and if she doesn't, so what. Pop is of course international - it;s only in your head it's not.

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 07:33 PM

Who's Cheryl Cole? How many tries has she scored? And for whom?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 08:54 PM

the title 'Pontiff' dates back at least to the time (and person) of Caesar Augustus.

Well, you DID say "at least", so to that extent you're not wrong. But that title existed in Roman religious hierarchy for quite some time before Augustus.

For one, Augustus' adopted father, Julius Caesar, was not only Pontiff but Supreme Pontiff (Pontifex Maximus)of Rome (along with other offices). And that position was definitely not new at that time.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 05:47 AM

I think most of us wouldn't mind giving her a try...


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: BTNG
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 04:55 PM

Would I be wrong in assuming that WalkaboutsVerse has read the Historia Ecclesiastica Gentis Anglorum (begging your pardon, your honour for not using the English tongue) from beginning to end? I think I just answered my own question.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 05:05 PM

...so that's what Alan meant, just above you BTNG - cheers.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 05:14 PM

I didn't understand the question you asked, or the answer you answered yourself with.

WAV gets funny ideas. One time he started a thread trying to prove that folksongs didn't have chords. This was news to the American contingent - half of whom had published folksong books with chords.

Another time , he reckoned we'd all been corrupted by non English non folksongs.

Whilst he may have got these ideas from a latin book - I feel it would be unfair to blame the Romans, for a totally original thinker like WAV.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: BTNG
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 05:21 PM

WAV referenced Bede a few posts back and the Historia Ecclesiastica Gentis Anglorum (Ecclesiastical History of the English People) is his master work, apparently WAV has not read this either in the originally Latin nor in English translation ans no, I was not referring to Cheryl Cole in anyway shape or form, WAV, so get back ontrack


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 05:41 PM

Joking apart, then: I have a (now dusty) Penguin copy, BTNG, and read part of it about a decade ago.

Alan: that "Chords in Folk?" thread eventually (and I was by no means Defoe's Crusoe) concluded "with the understanding that English folk-music, for centuries, has entertained people via, mostly, the repetition of tunes, in both song and dance: more-sophisticated polyphony and chords being found, rather, in church and court - eventually, i.e" (here).


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: s&r
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 07:37 PM

WAV can you (and if so will you) rewrite that last line in your adopted English please?

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 05:52 AM

How did the old Chords in Folk? thread conclude? Well, the last sentence (16th October 2008) is He's so ignorant I think he's a liar as well as a fool. One can only agree that talking to the perpetrator is rather akin to banging one's head on brick wall. Why bother?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Female Archbishop
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 07:04 AM

Out of curiosity

Suibhne Astray - how you pronouncing that?

Lay off WAV though. His ideas may be odd. However he wants to be a poet. Its not like he wants to be s serial killer, or something. Thinking strange thoughts is allowed.

Indeed some would think laughable my idea of Cheryl Cole being the nsxt Archbishop of Canterbury. I think she'd be great - doing guest spots in The Vicar of Dibley and occasionally saying it was a pity that poor people are starving. I mean, can't you imagine her in see thru mini vestments and leopard skin dog collar?


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